An FBI Agent's Guide To Body Language - Joe Navarro | Modern Wisdom Podcast 389

Too much eye contact affects interviewing. Allowing the person to drift off, to be comfortable, to be reflective is often better than what you see on television. It's actually easier to resist someone when they're in front of you. You know, it's easier to fend somebody off than somebody who's next to you. Somebody who's next to you, it's pretty tough to argue with them. It's like we're both on the same side. (air whooshing)

Joe Navarro, welcome to the show.

Good to be here, Chris.

For the people who aren't familiar with you and your background, where have you gone that's led you to this point?

Not very far, you know, (laughs) 25 years in the FBI where, uh, I, I got to play as a SWAT team commander, spycatcher and, uh, bureau pilot. Uh, I was the FBI's body language expert, and then I retired and wrote 14 books. And, um, so not much. (laughs)

Yeah, uh, a, uh, colorful career path-

(laughs)

... I think you could say. What's the-

Y-

What are those different, um, elements within the Bureau there, for the people that haven't got a clue what you're talking about?

Y- yeah. Well, you know, i- within the FBI, uh, we have a lot of subprograms. So, uh, I en- when I entered into the Bureau, I was already a, a licensed pilot and we were always in need of pilots because we use, uh, uh, aircraft as platforms for surveillance. So I, I got to do that. And then, (laughs) they, they wanted volunteers, which means I was pushed into, uh, going into the SWAT program because, uh, you know, sometimes you're up against some, um, (smacks lips) uh, some pretty dastardly groups. And, uh, spent 14 years as a ... on a SWAT team, uh, in, uh, Puerto Rico and then in, in Tampa and, um, and, uh, doing counterterrorism investigations. But mostly, you know, I spent those 25 years ... So, so you can do other things within the FBI. Um, I was, uh, part of the National Security's, uh, uh, behavioral program, which, uh, looked at, uh, human behavior. And, uh, and actually that's really what led me, um, not only my spycatching, but, uh, but led me to, uh, to, to begin to write books. And, uh, and in fact, the, the, the first book, uh, that I wrote with, uh, Jack Schaefer, uh, really was I was getting ready to retire from the FBI and, and people were saying, you know, "There's all this knowledge that you have, but you're taking it with you. Uh, w- why don't you share it?" And, um, I never w- I never intended to, to, uh, uh, be a writer. Um, and in fact, I often say I'm, I'm a writer, I'm r- or an author. I'm really not a writer. (laughs) I know what a (laughs) good writer is. Uh, I'm sure you know the, the, uh, the difference. But, um, you know, all o- all in all, it's, it's, uh, it was, uh, a fantastic experience. And, um, and obviously you, you learn a lot. Um, you know, I got to work with, uh, uh, British Intelligence. I wor- I worked with, uh, German Intelligence. Uh, um, and just different folks around the world. And it, uh, it makes for an interesting, uh, career.