DEBATE: State of Seed Investing w/ Jason Lemkin, Sam Lessin, Frank Rotman & Harry Stebbings | E1047

ℹ️ EPISODE INFO

Released

August 11, 2023

Duration

1h 3m

Channel

The Twenty Minute VC

Watch on YouTube

▶ Open ↗

📝 EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Sam Lessin is a Co-Founder and Partner @ Slow Ventures with a portfolio including the likes of Airtable, Robinhood, Slack, Solana, PillPack and many more unicorn companies. Prior to Slow, Sam was a VP Product at Facebook having sold his company to Meta. Frank Rotman is a founding partner of QED Investors, one of the leading fintech-focused venture firms investing today with a portfolio including the likes of Klarna, Kavak, Quinto Andar, Credit Karma and more. As for Frank, prior to QED, Frank was one of the earliest analysts hired into Capital One and spent almost 13 years there helping build many of the company’s business units and operational areas. Jason Lemkin is the Founder @ SaaStr one of the best-performing early-stage venture funds focused on SaaS. In the past, Jason has led investments in Algolia, Pipedrive, Salesloft, TalkDesk, and RevenueCat to name a few. Prior to SaaStr, Jason was an entrepreneur, selling EchoSign to Adobe for $100M where it is now a $250M ARR product. ------------------------------------------------------------ Timestamps: (0:00) Intro (00:31) Perspectives on Investing (10:40) Risks and Insights in Early-stage Investing (19:53) Strategy and Scalability (36:22) Investment Approaches, Hiring, and Predictions (57:14) Final Insights and Quick-Fire Round ------------------------------------------------------------ In Today’s Discussion on Why Seed is Broken We Discuss:

1. The Seed Model Was Broken and What Comes Now: Why does Sam Lessin believe the model for seed of a “factory line” was broken? What does he believe will replace it? Why does Jason Lemkin argue that this might not be the case for SaaS and enterprise?

1. Round Construction: YC, Multi-Stage Funds and Party Rounds: Why does Sam Lessin believe we have seen the end of party rounds? Why does Jason Lemkin disagree and we will see more than ever? Why does Sam Lessin believe the factory model of YC churning out companies is over? Where does Jason Lemkin believe the value lies in the YC model? Will the multi-stage funds remain in seed? How has their entrance and deployment changed the seed market?

1. VC Value Add at Seed: Is it BS? Why does Jason believe all talent arms in venture firms have failed? Why does Sam believe that no VCs provide value? Do the best founders really need help? Why do Jason and Sam disagree?

1. What Happens Now: Why does Jason believe that every manager can write off their fund from 2021? Who will be the winners in seed in the next 10 years? Why does Sam believe if you want to bet on AI, just bet on Meta or Microsoft? What will happen to the many companies with no PMF but 10 years of runway? ------------------------------------------------------------ Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3j2KMcZTtgTNBKwtZBMHvl?si=85bc9196860e4466 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-twenty-minute-vc-20vc-venture-capital-startup/id958230465 Follow Harry Stebbings on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HarryStebbings Follow Jason Lemkin on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jasonlk Follow Sam Lessin on Twitter: https://twitter.com/lessin Follow Frank Rotman on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FintechJunkie Follow 20VC on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/20vc_reels Follow 20VC on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@20vc_tok Visit our Website: https://www.20vc.com Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/contact ------------------------------------------------------------ #JasonLemkin #SamLessin #FrankRotman #HarryStebbings

🎤 SPEAKERS

• Sam Lessin

  guest

• Harry Stebbings

  host

• Jason Lemkin

  guest

• Frank Rotman

  guest

🧾 EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of The Twenty Minute VC, featuring Sam Lessin and Harry Stebbings, DEBATE: State of Seed Investing w/ Jason Lemkin, Sam Lessin, Frank Rotman & Harry Stebbings | E1047 explores seed Investing’s Factory Era Is Over: Back To Bespoke, Brutal Reality The guests argue that the “factory line” era of seed investing—standardized playbooks, predictable Series A/B markups, and manufacturing middling unicorns—is dead and unlikely to return. Seed now reverts to a bespoke, power‑law game where weird, non‑obvious bets, smaller funds, and true conviction matter more than process and branding. They stress capital efficiency, real de‑risking, and building good, profitable companies first, instead of raising endlessly on narrative and TAM slides. The conversation also covers overpricing at seed, LP pullbacks, crowded cap tables, YC and party rounds, founder attitudes to capital, and when a real IPO window might reopen.

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