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Wall St's $725BN AI Question | The Rise of Open Source & How it Threatens OpenAI & Anthropic

Jason Lemkin is one of the leading SaaS investors of the last decade with a portfolio including the likes of Algolia, Talkdesk, Owner, RevenueCat, Saleloft and more. Rory O’Driscoll is a General Partner @ Scale where he has led investments in category leaders such as Bill.com (BILL), Box (BOX), DocuSign (DOCU), and WalkMe (WKME), among others. ----------------------------------------------- Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:09 Google Loses Two Generational Scientists in 48 Hours to Anthropic 13:28 Why Being #3 in AI Is the Most Dangerous Position 18:00 DeepSeek's $7.4B Series A at a $50B Valuation: Is China Winning? 29:00 Wall St’s $725B AI Question: Who's Actually Going to Pay for AI? 49:09 Gross Margin Is Now the New Growth 53:00 Menlo Ventures Raises $3B: Why Not More After the Anthropic Win? 1:04:30 Accenture Plummets 19%: Why AI Is Destroying the Consulting Business 1:12:22 Work From Home Is White Collar Fraud 1:18:10 OpenAI Launches the Jalapeño Chip 1:19:07 Open Source Is Hollowing Out the Middle of the AI Market ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3j2KMcZ... Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow Harry Stebbings on X: https://x.com/harrystebbings Follow Jason Lemkin on X: https://x.com/jasonlk Follow Rory O’Driscoll on X: https://x.com/rodriscoll Follow 20VC on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/20vchq Follow 20VC on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@20vc_tok Visit our Website: https://www.20vc.com Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/con... ----------------------------------------------- Legal Disclaimer: The content of this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial or investment advice. Any discussion of stocks, public markets, or investment strategies reflects the personal opinions of the speakers and should not be relied upon when making investment decisions. Figures, valuations, and financial data referenced may be estimates or subject to error. Always consult a qualified financial adviser before making any investment decision. The views expressed are those of the individual speakers and do not represent the views of 20VC or its affiliates. ----------------------------------------------- #20vc #harrystebbings #roryodriscoll #jasonlemkin #deepseek #wallstreet #google #openaichip #jalapeno #saas

Jason LemkinguestHarry StebbingshostRory O’Driscollguest
Jun 25, 20261h 28mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Open source AI, soaring capex, and the coming enterprise ROI reckoning

  1. Anthropic’s hiring of top DeepMind scientists is framed as both a better research environment and a faster shipping culture that incumbents like Google struggle to match.
  2. Open-source foundation models—largely Chinese-backed—are portrayed as a major price-and-margin threat that could “hollow out” the mid-tier of the closed-source AI market.
  3. The panel argues Wall Street’s core question is who will ultimately pay for $700B+ annual AI CapEx, implying a hard transition from token-maxing experimentation to ROI-driven budgeting.
  4. Rising infrastructure inputs (memory, power, chips) are described as economy-wide inflationary pressure, while vendors and customers scramble to optimize inference costs and routing.
  5. AI is expected to compress labor-heavy, seat/body-based business models (consulting/SI especially), intensifying layoffs and forcing new operating models and smaller, higher-output teams.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Elite AI talent follows autonomy, shipping velocity, and momentum—not incumbency.

The panel attributes Google’s losses to a mix of bureaucracy and weaker product execution, while Anthropic/OpenAI can offer both freedom for researchers and rapid product momentum plus massive comp packages.

Being the #3 closed-source model provider is strategically precarious.

With widespread multi-model routing, buyers can default to #1/#2 for quality and open source for cost; the “middle” offering from #3 risks becoming redundant unless it is clearly cheaper or uniquely differentiated.

Open source isn’t “free”; it’s a subsidized cost structure—often by Chinese state incentives.

They argue China effectively underwrites training and ecosystem innovation, creating a persistent price ceiling that grinds down closed-source margins, especially in enterprise inference.

Enterprises are moving from ‘token maxing’ to strict ROI allocation.

2025–early 2026 is framed as experimentation to build AI fluency; by 2027, CIOs will demand measurable outcomes (headcount reduction, revenue growth, throughput gains) to justify ongoing token budgets.

The monetization math implies labor disruption if AI CapEx is to earn returns.

If the ecosystem needs ~$1T in AI-related revenue to justify spend, customers must capture more than that in value—likely through major productivity gains that translate into meaningful labor displacement.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

Open source is a bit of a fake because China's paying for all the training, okay? It's not open source like a generation ago.

Jason Lemkin

The whole reason the OpenAI and Anthropic models work is because other idiots have spent the $300 billion on their behalf.

Rory O’Driscoll

So AI as a whole is m- getting a hundred billion in revenue and spending seven hundred billion a year. That's not a great business.

Rory O’Driscoll

Show me the F and ROI. We're not gonna, we're not just gonna ration tokens based on who we like the most in the company and, and who makes the best PowerPoint pitch.

Jason Lemkin

You don't get to make $10 million for working 18 hours a week. You get a watch. You get an Omega. You want an Omega or you want to be rich? Make your choice, boys.

Jason Lemkin

DeepMind talent departures to Anthropic“#3 is most dangerous” in foundation modelsChina-backed open source and sovereigntyModel routing, token costs, and prompt caching$725B AI CapEx vs monetization gapGross margin vs growth in AI startupsConsulting/SI disruption and “bodies-based” billingWork-from-home debate and intensity of competitionOpenAI custom chip (Jalapeño) and inference economics

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