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a16zPay Without Borders with Alex Bouaziz (Deel), Darren Murph (GitLab), and Sondre Rasch (Safetywing)
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CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 2:42
A Brief History of the Office and Episode Preview
Steph Smith traces the office from 1560 through the 40-hour week, the cubicle and the internet, and frames how COVID forced companies to adapt. She previews the topics: hiring, top talent, benefits, who wins, and missing infrastructure.
- •The office predecessor dates to 1560, the 40-hour week to 1926, the cubicle to 1968
- •Wifi in 1997 and modern technology make the possibilities fundamentally different
- •COVID forced many companies into a distributed model
- •Preview of topics including talent, benefits and infrastructure
- 2:42 – 8:30
Is the Office Dead?
After introductions, Steph asks the panel whether the office is dead. Darren says the office mentality is dying, Sondre points to economic pressure from global hiring, and Alex says the definition of an office is fuzzy.
- •Darren: the office mentality is on its last leg, while physical space gets a new lease on life
- •Sondre: remote companies can hire the best in the world and will out-compete others
- •Alex: Deel has 1,300+ people in 80+ countries with no offices, and uses WeWork memberships
- •Physical gatherings become the new meaning of in-person
- 8:30 – 14:23
Async vs. Sync: GitLab's Approach to Meetings and Documentation
Steph raises asynchronous versus synchronous work, and Darren explains GitLab's bias toward async, written into its values. He describes optimizing for knowledge retrieval, optional meetings with agendas, and memos over meetings.
- •Async is bundled in GitLab's diversity, inclusion and belonging value as respect for people's time
- •Management should optimize for speed of knowledge retrieval, not transfer
- •All meetings are optional and need an agenda: no agenda, no attenda
- •Status updates, FYIs and recurring meetings are the first to cut
- 14:23 – 16:59
Is Full Async Realistic? Alex and Sondre Push Back
Alex and Sondre argue that full async depends on company stage and function. Sondre describes SafetyWing's bracketed meeting hours, and Steph notes there is a spectrum rather than one right answer.
- •Alex: async is wrong for very early stage and hard for payroll, compliance or support work
- •Alex: GitLab's product makes writing async core to the business
- •Sondre built a previous company fully async but chose not to at SafetyWing because it slows projects
- •SafetyWing limits meetings to 8–11am PST on Monday, Wednesday and Thursday
- 16:59 – 29:09
Building Culture Remotely
Steph introduces culture as a common remote-work concern and criticizes copy-pasted Zoom happy hours. Sondre, Darren, Steph and Alex discuss values, written communication, community impact outings, random groups and Slack matching tools.
- •Sondre: values must be modeled, hired for, rewarded and treated as hard constraints, with more written norms
- •Darren: GitLab culture is values and operating principles, camaraderie and how work happens
- •Community impact outing: an hour doing something meaningful locally, shared with company swag
- •Weekly random groups of three and Roots' Slack pairing tool build bonds
- •Steph suggests digitally native activities like games over Zoom happy hours
- 29:09 – 33:21
Attracting Top Talent in a More Competitive Remote Market
Steph asks whether remote companies can still attract top talent now that many more offer remote jobs. Darren answers yes and yes: competition has grown, but more people are seeking remote roles and expect companies to do it well.
- •Remote was once a unique benefit; supply of remote jobs has since surged
- •People who were committed to co-location are now looking for remote employers
- •Return-to-office mandates push talent to remote-first companies
- •Being remote is no longer enough; companies must invest in infrastructure
- 33:21 – 39:59
The Evolution of Benefits and Global Hiring Infrastructure
Sondre explains that basic benefits like health insurance and retirement are still missing for many remote workers, and describes SafetyWing's vision of a global safety net. Alex describes Deel's contractor and employer-of-record models and global hiring trends.
- •Most SafetyWing customers previously had no health insurance, especially contractors
- •Silicon Valley-style perks have reached remote work, but basics remain the priority
- •SafetyWing aims to build a global social safety net bundling services
- •Deel offers contractor, employer-of-record and entity models for about 10,000 customers
- •Companies must weigh country-level benefit differences against standardization
- 39:59 – 42:38
Remote Work Is Just Work
Alex hopes the term remote work disappears, and Darren agrees, imagining his son seeing commuting as a relic. Steph adds historical analogies and Darren frames remote work as using the internet to live better.
- •Alex hopes remote work becomes simply work
- •Darren compares the shift to the cassette or fax machine moment
- •Steph recalls an 1891 article criticizing the office
- •Remote work is described as leveraging technology to build better lives and organizations
- 42:38 – 49:44
Location-Based Pay vs. Flat Pay
Steph asks what companies are actually doing about location-based pay. Alex says Deel pays by country rate, Sondre explains SafetyWing's flat approach, and Darren advises leaders to watch the cost of rehiring.
- •Alex: Deel pays top of market within each country, and Bay Area salaries are out of control
- •Sondre: remote workers are in a global labor market, so SafetyWing pays a flat salary
- •Sondre cites Carta data suggesting US salaries converging on San Francisco
- •Alex notes people move and don't tell managers, making re-equilibration awkward
- •Darren warns that cutting pay risks rehiring, retraining and lost knowledge costs
- 49:44 – 53:23
Open Salaries and GitLab's Compensation Calculator
Steph asks Darren about GitLab's open compensation calculator. Darren says it now sits behind an employee and candidate firewall after going public, and that the right approach depends on company context.
- •Steph recalls using the public calculator to see what she'd earn at GitLab
- •The calculator is still available to employees and candidates
- •Becoming a public company drove the change, though the ethos remains
- •Darren says the answer depends on company, industry and market factors
- 53:23 – 55:37
Global Talent Hubs and Regional Winners
Steph asks Alex about the Deel global hiring report and how regions are shifting. Alex says engineering salaries are rising in places like Brazil, India and Colombia as hubs form around successful companies.
- •Alex focuses on engineering because talent is most scarce there
- •Brazil, India and Colombia are strong engineering locations with rising salaries
- •Top local companies like Nubank create hubs of experienced talent
- •Talent can now work for global employers without competing locally
- •Strong engineering or education ecosystems produce clear winners
- 55:37 – 59:25
Vetting Talent and Aligning Expectations
Steph asks how vetting is changing, including assessments and contractor trial periods. Darren stresses transparency about values and culture, and Alex describes helping Fortune 500 companies adapt to new expectations of work.
- •Darren: no one accidentally ends up at GitLab; candidates self-select through documented strategy
- •Walk candidates through the values page and ask what resonates
- •Transitioning companies can add a job description line about building a new culture
- •Alex works with Fortune 500s on the future of work and flexibility
- 59:25 – 1:07:32
Legacy Rules, Compliance Gaps and Governments Competing for Talent
Steph asks what gaps large traditional companies face, such as employees working from multiple countries. Alex and Sondre describe the compliance headaches and how governments are moving fast with nomad visas and incentives.
- •Employees wanting to live in several countries a year stump traditional HR teams
- •Policies are obsolete, with no single source of truth for best practices
- •Alex says Deel is working with governments, including a UAE partnership with fast visas
- •Sondre notes the nomad visa went from Barbados in 2020 to about 50 countries
- •Steph likens countries to products that must reduce friction
- 1:07:32 – 1:18:12
What Infrastructure Is Missing? Opportunities for Founders
Steph asks what infrastructure is missing. Sondre cites new cities and legal arbitration and credit scores, Alex adds global equity and country-level tools, and Darren proposes life designers, project teams and decision-making frameworks.
- •Sondre: new cities and co-living, plus legal arbitration and credit scores for internet workers
- •Alex is working on credit and banking for non-traditional workers and sees a market in global equity
- •Darren: life-design agents and Ocean's 11-style teams of knowledge workers
- •Darren: decision-making frameworks for distributed teams, tied to GitLab's clear decision-maker model
- •Steph expects dependence on employers for healthcare and credit to shift
- 1:18:12 – 1:19:59
Closing Thoughts
Each guest closes with advice on the future of work. Darren encourages leaders to build in public rather than act from fear, Alex says companies need flexible infrastructure to keep talent, and Steph warns that those who don't adapt will lose out.
- •Darren: there is no defined playbook, so treat this as an opportunity rather than scarcity
- •Alex: remote work is just work and flexible infrastructure is needed to keep best talent
- •Steph: companies that don't keep up will have their lunch eaten
- •Show notes will include the GitLab handbook and Deel Global Hiring Report
