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Jayesh

Jayesh Govindarajan runs the 700-person org behind Salesforce AI and Agentforce. He breaks down what an AI native company looks like layer by layer, from the tools his teams live in to how the product trio is converging. He also defines the ADLC, the agent development life cycle that replaces the SDLC once your software is an agent. Full Writeup: Transcript: Timestamps 02:19 - Inside Salesforce's AI org and how agentic coding changed it 07:33 - Ads 09:30 - How to pick and roll out AI tools 12:56 - Headless Salesforce inside Claude 15:14 - Getting ground truth from probabilistic AI 19:22 - Why Slack is the AI native work hub 21:25 - Ads 24:51 - Prototyping with customers inside Slack 25:45 - The future of the product trio 34:15 - The two AI PM skills and how to hire for them 38:00 - ADLC vs SDLC 46:36 - Roadmapping with forward deployed teams 52:29 - Biggest mistakes in AI transformations 🏆 Thanks to our sponsors 1. Fingerprint: Identify good and bad visitors with industry-leading accuracy - https://fingerprint.com/?utm_source=aakash-gupta&utm_medium=youtube 2. Ariso: Ship AI agents and features faster, with fewer regressions - https://ariso.ai/aakash 3. Customer.io: Send smarter messages using your product data - http://customer.io/productgrowth 4. Land your next PM role: Coached live by PM leaders who've hired at Meta, Uber, Microsoft, etc - https://www.landpmjob.com/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign 5. Product Faculty: Get $150 off their #1 AI PM Certification via code AAKASH150 - https://www.productfaculty.com/?code=AAKASH150 Key Takeaways 1. Manage agents instead of doing the work - The biggest change in Jayesh's org is mental. People stopped asking how to do the work by hand. They now ask how to manage a team of agents that does it. 2. Keep tool choice open - Salesforce started on Cursor, then engineers moved to Claude Code. Clear every tool through security first, then let teams pick. Real usage data tells you what to back next. 3. The value was never the UI - Going headless means Salesforce's business logic lives in the API. Customers pull decades of tuned workflows into Claude through skills and build whatever interface they need on top. 4. Let deterministic tools hold the ground truth - An LLM can hand you two different pipeline numbers. Agent Script turns a plain English spec into tool calls and context lookups, so the model orchestrates tested APIs instead of writing fresh code. Hallucination drops sharply. 5. Go eval-first - Jayesh's data science teams were eval native from day one. Now his engineering teams are catching up with custom scorers tied to outcomes and built for each specific agent. 6. Make Slack the context layer - Slack is where work happens asynchronously, and that history is gold dust for agents. A PM can mock up a prototype in a Slack thread with a customer and get feedback before a PRD exists. 7. The product trio lines are blurring - Engineers now put prototypes in front of customers directly. PMs no longer wait on engineering. Team ratios have not shifted yet, but work is bleeding across roles. 8. AI PMs need prototyping and evals - Jayesh agreed these are the two must-have skills. When he hires, he looks first for agency, then for craftsmanship that refuses AI slop and turns skepticism into failing test cases. 9. Adopt the ADLC - The agent development life cycle covers how you build, test, evaluate, deploy and observe an agent. The model underneath keeps changing, so without test cases and evals you are too afraid of breaking things to ship. Salesforce's optimization agent now watches every live agent for drift. 10. Start simple, then go wall to wall - Define value and an ROI metric before you build. Minimize variables on the first implementation and get one win. One of Europe's largest recruiting firms started with text agents in 17 languages and is now moving to voice. 👨‍💻 Where to find Jayesh Govindarajan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayeshg/ 👨‍💻 Where to find Aakash Twitter: https://x.com/aakashgupta LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aagupta/ Newsletter: https://www.news.aakashg.com Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-growth-podcast/id1763555775 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7vVEMqCSKb7I7xPk8xZtg5 🧠 About Product Growth The world's largest podcast focused solely on product + growth, with over 200K+ listeners. 🔔 Subscribe and turn on notifications.

Aakash GuptahostJayesh Govindarajanguest
Oct 29, 202657mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

How Salesforce builds AI-native teams with ADLC, evals, and Slack

  1. Jayesh Govindarajan describes how Salesforce’s AI engineering org builds and operates predictive, generative, and agentic AI across the Salesforce stack, with Agentforce as a foundation customers use to build their own agents.
  2. He explains how AI-native work changes day-to-day execution: teams rely on tools like Claude/Codex for development, operate heavily in Slack, and increasingly manage “teams of agents” rather than doing all work by hand.
  3. He outlines an approach to adopting fast-moving AI tools: pass security requirements, give teams choice, observe real usage and adoption, then lean into emerging best practices while staying open to change.
  4. He details how to get determinism and “ground truth” from probabilistic AI by grounding agents in context and tool calls, using controls like Agent Script and adopting an eval-first culture with outcome-based testing and custom scoring.
  5. He introduces ADLC (Agent Development Life Cycle) as a new lifecycle for building, evaluating, deploying, and observing agents in production—where drift is expected and continuous iteration is necessary—plus explains how customer feedback and forward deployed teams shape roadmaps.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

ADLC replaces SDLC assumptions when the “software” is an agent.

He frames ADLC as the lifecycle for agentic software: build, test, evaluate, deploy, then observe so the agent can continually improve after launch, including responding to drift when context or underlying models change.

AI-native org structure mirrors the agent stack: models → harness → lifecycle/optimization.

He describes Salesforce’s AI engineering org as three stacked layers: teams that build/tune models, teams that build harness technologies (context, tool calling, memory), and teams focused on ADLC/agent optimization and production operations.

Roll out AI tools by enabling choice, then follow adoption data—not mandates.

He says tool choice should be open (after security review), with teams trying multiple options (e.g., Cursor, Claude Code, Codex) and leaders watching real usage data to see what drives adoption and best practices.

Headless + APIs lets customers consume Salesforce capabilities inside Claude or Slack.

He says moving “headless” is liberating because Salesforce’s “magic” is in APIs, metadata, and business logic—not just the UI—and bringing these capabilities into tools like Claude lets customers use Salesforce workflows in whatever interface they want.

Ground truth in probabilistic AI comes from tool-calling controls and structured agent specs.

He explains that grounding and determinism come from relying on deterministic APIs/tool calls rather than letting an LLM invent outputs; he describes Agent Script as a way to specify agents in plain English that transpiles into tool-calling logic and context retrieval, reducing hallucinations.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

If the software you're producing is not just a deterministic piece of software but is an agent, what does-- how do you build it? How do you test it? How do you evaluate it? How do you deploy it?

— Jayesh Govindarajan

I think we create them in our own heads, and, and, and then we specialize around them.

— Jayesh Govindarajan

We've had people change how they think about work, and that change is, in essence, how do you manage a team of agents, uh versus doing the work by hand, if that makes sense.

— Jayesh Govindarajan

The one place that people are available asynchronously all the time? It's Slack.

— Jayesh Govindarajan

The bottleneck is no longer writing code. The bottleneck is writing quality code, writing code that works all the time, having the test cases that fail before it hits production.

— Jayesh Govindarajan

ADLC (agent development life cycle)Agentforce and agent harnessesTool selection and rollout processHeadless Salesforce via APIs inside other interfacesDeterminism, grounding, and tool callingEval-first culture and custom scorersSlack as an AI-native work hub and customer prototyping

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