What this $2.45B CPO knows that you Don’t!

Jeremy Epling has led product at every level - Microsoft, GitHub, and now as Chief Product Officer at Vanta. In this episode, he unpacks what most PMs get wrong about strategy, what he learned from Satya Nadella, and how AI is reshaping product development. We cover: Preview – 00:00:00 Working at Internet Explorer – 00:02:05 Why He Encourages AI Prototyping Tools – 00:06:15 Ad (Linear) – 00:09:56 Ad (Amplitude) – 00:10:48 AI Prototyping Tools Impact Continued... – 00:11:23 How a Microsoft Feature Gets Built – 00:15:47 Changes in PM Role Inside Microsoft – 00:17:57 Lessons Learned From Satya – 00:20:59 Steps to Move Up the Career Ladder – 00:25:11 Ad (Maven) – 00:30:45 Communication as a Step in the Career Ladder – 00:31:33 Moving Beyond the Product – "The Final Step" – 00:34:11 GitHub for PMs – 00:37:33 Experience as a VP – 00:42:33 Evolving Expectations of Director-Level Roles – 00:48:51 Getting Job in Vanta – 00:51:59 Secret Behind Vanta's Success – 00:58:01 Growth in PLG vs. Enterprise – 01:01:36 Unique Things About Building a Product – 01:03:57 Embracing All AI Software – 01:07:16 Evaluation of PMs at Vanta – 01:11:12 Advice to PMs With No Experience – 01:13:56 Podcast transcript: https://www.news.aakashg.com/p/jeremy-epling-podcast 💼 Check out our sponsors: Linear: Plan and build products like the best - https://linear.app/partners/aakash Amplitude: Try their 2-min assessment of your company’s digital maturity - https://bit.ly/4hl25RG Maven: I’ve launched my own curation of their courses - http://maven.com/x/aakash 👀 Where to Find Jeremy LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-epling-j40 Vanta (Get $1,000 off with our link): https://www.vanta.com/lp/demo-1k?utm_campaign=1k_offer&utm_source=product-growth&utm_medium=podcast 👨‍💻 Where to find Aakash: Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/aakashg0 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aagupta/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aakashg0/ 🔑 Key Takeaways 1. Big companies teach you how to scale. Great ones teach you how to focus. At Microsoft, Jeremy learned how to operate at massive scale - teams, systems, legacy complexity. But it wasn’t until GitHub that he saw what it meant to focus on developers, ruthlessly prioritize, and ship with empathy. 2. “Strategy” isn’t about having a roadmap, it’s about knowing what not to build.He learned early on that the best PMs aren’t the ones who ship the most features. They’re the ones who create clarity, say no often, and focus the team on why they’re building something, not just what. 3. Prototyping is the new PM’s superpower. At Vanta, every PM gets access to V0. Why? Because the fastest way to learn is to build. His philosophy: “If I can show it, I can test it. If I can test it, I can learn.” 4. The lines between PM, design, and engineering are gone. At high-functioning companies, designers submit pull requests, engineers make design calls, and PMs prototype. Roles are fluid, and the best teams adapt to each other instead of clinging to old job descriptions. 5. Most PMs don’t understand GitHub but they should. You don’t have to be technical to learn GitHub. You just have to be curious. The best PMs at GitHub - even the non-coders - understood the dev workflow, knew what a PR felt like, and respected the architecture. That empathy changed how they built product. 6. Want to grow into VP-level roles? Improve your business acumen. Shipping features won’t get you there. Understanding margin, pricing, GTM, and how your product makes money will. He didn’t start out as a “business” PM, but he made a point to learn the mechanics of how things grow and that’s what unlocked leadership roles. 7. If you’re doing the same job after 4 years, you’re probably not growing. He kept switching teams every few years at Microsoft not because he was bored, but because growth requires friction. Every new domain forced him to relearn how to build, lead, and communicate. 8. Satya Nadella didn’t just save Microsoft, he redefined what it meant to build product there. Under Ballmer, the strategy was “build everything.” Under Satya, it became “build what matters.” He saw firsthand how Satya’s obsession with clarity and developer-first thinking rewired the org. That’s what made it the best place for PMs to work back days. 9. Letting go is the lost art for PMs! One of the fastest ways to grow as a PM? Kill projects that don’t matter even if they were your idea. According to him, the PMs who get promoted are the ones who know when to let go and when to keep building on the idea. #strategy #microsoft #ai 🧠 About Product Growth: The world's largest podcast focused solely on product + growth, with over 170K listeners. Hosted by Aakash Gupta, who spent 16 years in PM, rising to VP of product, this 2x/ week show covers product and growth topics in depth. 🔔 Subscribe and like the video to support our content! And turn on the bell for notifications.

Jeremy EplingguestAakash Guptahost

May 26, 20251h 19mWatch on YouTube ↗

EPISODE INFO

Released: May 26, 2025
Duration: 1h 19m
Channel: Aakash Gupta
Watch on YouTube: ▶ Open ↗

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Jeremy Epling has led product at every level - Microsoft, GitHub, and now as Chief Product Officer at Vanta. In this episode, he unpacks what most PMs get wrong about strategy, what he learned from Satya Nadella, and how AI is reshaping product development. We cover: Preview – 00:00:00 Working at Internet Explorer – 00:02:05 Why He Encourages AI Prototyping Tools – 00:06:15 Ad (Linear) – 00:09:56 Ad (Amplitude) – 00:10:48 AI Prototyping Tools Impact Continued... – 00:11:23 How a Microsoft Feature Gets Built – 00:15:47 Changes in PM Role Inside Microsoft – 00:17:57 Lessons Learned From Satya – 00:20:59 Steps to Move Up the Career Ladder – 00:25:11 Ad (Maven) – 00:30:45 Communication as a Step in the Career Ladder – 00:31:33 Moving Beyond the Product – "The Final Step" – 00:34:11 GitHub for PMs – 00:37:33 Experience as a VP – 00:42:33 Evolving Expectations of Director-Level Roles – 00:48:51 Getting Job in Vanta – 00:51:59 Secret Behind Vanta's Success – 00:58:01 Growth in PLG vs. Enterprise – 01:01:36 Unique Things About Building a Product – 01:03:57 Embracing All AI Software – 01:07:16 Evaluation of PMs at Vanta – 01:11:12 Advice to PMs With No Experience – 01:13:56 Podcast transcript: https://www.news.aakashg.com/p/jeremy-epling-podcast 💼 Check out our sponsors: Linear: Plan and build products like the best - https://linear.app/partners/aakash Amplitude: Try their 2-min assessment of your company’s digital maturity - https://bit.ly/4hl25RG Maven: I’ve launched my own curation of their courses - http://maven.com/x/aakash 👀 Where to Find Jeremy LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-epling-j40 Vanta (Get $1,000 off with our link): https://www.vanta.com/lp/demo-1k?utm_campaign=1k_offer&utm_source=product-growth&utm_medium=podcast 👨‍💻 Where to find Aakash: Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/aakashg0 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aagupta/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aakashg0/ 🔑 Key Takeaways
1. Big companies teach you how to scale. Great ones teach you how to focus. At Microsoft, Jeremy learned how to operate at massive scale - teams, systems, legacy complexity. But it wasn’t until GitHub that he saw what it meant to focus on developers, ruthlessly prioritize, and ship with empathy.
1. “Strategy” isn’t about having a roadmap, it’s about knowing what not to build.He learned early on that the best PMs aren’t the ones who ship the most features. They’re the ones who create clarity, say no often, and focus the team on why they’re building something, not just what.
1. Prototyping is the new PM’s superpower. At Vanta, every PM gets access to V0. Why? Because the fastest way to learn is to build. His philosophy: “If I can show it, I can test it. If I can test it, I can learn.”
1. The lines between PM, design, and engineering are gone. At high-functioning companies, designers submit pull requests, engineers make design calls, and PMs prototype. Roles are fluid, and the best teams adapt to each other instead of clinging to old job descriptions.
1. Most PMs don’t understand GitHub but they should. You don’t have to be technical to learn GitHub. You just have to be curious. The best PMs at GitHub - even the non-coders - understood the dev workflow, knew what a PR felt like, and respected the architecture. That empathy changed how they built product.
1. Want to grow into VP-level roles? Improve your business acumen. Shipping features won’t get you there. Understanding margin, pricing, GTM, and how your product makes money will. He didn’t start out as a “business” PM, but he made a point to learn the mechanics of how things grow and that’s what unlocked leadership roles.
1. If you’re doing the same job after 4 years, you’re probably not growing. He kept switching teams every few years at Microsoft not because he was bored, but because growth requires friction. Every new domain forced him to relearn how to build, lead, and communicate.
1. Satya Nadella didn’t just save Microsoft, he redefined what it meant to build product there. Under Ballmer, the strategy was “build everything.” Under Satya, it became “build what matters.” He saw firsthand how Satya’s obsession with clarity and developer-first thinking rewired the org. That’s what made it the best place for PMs to work back days.
1. Letting go is the lost art for PMs! One of the fastest ways to grow as a PM? Kill projects that don’t matter even if they were your idea. According to him, the PMs who get promoted are the ones who know when to let go and when to keep building on the idea. #strategy #microsoft #ai 🧠 About Product Growth: The world's largest podcast focused solely on product + growth, with over 170K listeners. Hosted by Aakash Gupta, who spent 16 years in PM, rising to VP of product, this 2x/ week show covers product and growth topics in depth. 🔔 Subscribe and like the video to support our content! And turn on the bell for notifications.

SPEAKERS

Jeremy Epling
guest
Chief Product Officer at Vanta; former VP Product at GitHub and longtime Microsoft product leader.
Aakash Gupta
host
Product leader and podcast/newsletter host focused on product management and career growth.

EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Aakash Gupta, featuring Jeremy Epling and Aakash Gupta, What this $2.45B CPO knows that you Don’t! explores vanta CPO on product leadership, AI tools, and career growth Product management evolved from waterfall PRDs and inward decision-making to broader PM scope, stronger design partnership, and tighter customer-and-business accountability.

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