Rich & Rox (ADHD Love) FINALLY open up about Autism, Arguments + ADHD Confusions!

1. 0:00 – 2:16

   Trailer

   1. RORox0:00

      I'm gonna get you to do one of those online tests

   2. RIRich0:02

      I don't think I need to.

   3. APAlex Partridge0:03

      What do you think, Richard?

   4. RORox0:04

      [laughs]

   5. APAlex Partridge0:04

      Do you think, do you think you're autistic?

   6. RIRich0:05

      I'm in too deep now on the internet, aren't I, as the neurotypical husband?

   7. RORox0:09

      Richard and Roxanne YouTubers, TikTok sensations, and now authors

   8. APAlex Partridge0:13

      Have changed the conversation about ADHD. Rich, Rox, welcome back. Since we last spoke, we've had a couple of guests come on who have really been pushing the trauma theory. Do you consider that ADHD could be trauma related?

   9. RORox0:25

      Personally, 100%. I also grew up in a house with a lot of rage and a lot of shame, so it's a massive trigger for me. And in fact, I wonder whether my instant anxiety and desire to squash anger or frustration in, in Rich is 'cause perhaps it is repressed in me. It's very often the things we repress we can't stand in other people.

   10. APAlex Partridge0:46

       Rich, are there still things you just have trouble understanding about ADHD?

   11. RIRich0:51

       Excuse if it comes out very blunt, but, like, the in- inability to, like, learn from your mistakes. And the reason I say it, because Rox's ability to learn stuff is unreal.

   12. RORox1:02

       Mm.

   13. RIRich1:02

       But she can't learn how to, like, not lose, uh, sunglasses.

   14. APAlex Partridge1:06

       And Rox, be honest.

   15. RORox1:08

       Yeah.

   16. APAlex Partridge1:08

       When was the last time you used ADHD to get out of an argument?

   17. RORox1:11

       Oof.

   18. RIRich1:11

       [laughs]

   19. RORox1:13

       So we have been moving house.

   20. APAlex Partridge1:20

       This episode is dedicated to anyone who finds it hard to maintain friendships, because out of sight really does mean out of mind. I know you've probably heard this a million times on other podcasts, but following or subscribing really helps the show. And the more followers we get, the more likely it is that I'm able to book new, exciting, and insightful guests for the show. So if you subscribe, I will continue to keep to my word and promise to never let this podcast be sponsored by Huel. Rich, Rox, welcome back.

   21. RIRich1:49

       Thank you. Good to be back.

   22. RORox1:51

       Great to be back. It's looking amazing in here.

   23. APAlex Partridge1:54

       Thank you so much. It's changed a lot since you were last here.

   24. RORox1:58

       The chairs have changed.

   25. RIRich2:00

       Yeah, we were on a sofa, weren't we?

   26. RORox2:01

       We were on a sofa.

   27. RIRich2:02

       Yeah.

   28. RORox2:02

       And these amazing shelves with random things on that is very intriguing, um, is certainly-

   29. APAlex Partridge2:08

       All the, uh, past ADHD items of previous guests, and your ADHD item, which I won't say what it is yet, will join it afterwards.

   30. RORox2:15

       Absolutely love that.

2. 2:16 – 6:48

   What have you been up to and what have you learned about yourselves in the past 7 months!

   1. APAlex Partridge2:16

      It has been seven months since you were last on, and my first question is, how are you? What have you been up to? And what have you learnt about yourself in the last seven months?

   2. RORox2:25

      So I'm [laughs] skating on the edge of burnout right now, because last month, I s- sort of wanna say we decided, but I'm gonna take responsibility and say I decided it would be a great idea to, uh, release a book, go on tour, play festivals for myself on the singing side, and move house. [laughs] And it felt like, you know when those ADHD moments when you're like, "I'm unstoppable." [laughs] It's probably a manic episode. "I'm unstoppable. We can do it." Like, I'm feeling revved up, and then just regretting, um, doing all of that in one month. So that's me. What have I learnt? Not to do all of those four things in a month.

   3. RIRich3:09

      I've learnt about myself that past me was not strong enough to say no to Rox's ideas for May 2024.

   4. RORox3:18

      Yeah. [laughs]

   5. RIRich3:18

      I think [laughs] , uh, 'cause, yeah, it's been, it's been rough. We're r- we're just about recovering now, aren't we?

   6. RORox3:25

      Are we? [laughs]

   7. RIRich3:26

      Well...

   8. RORox3:27

      I don't know. [laughs]

   9. RIRich3:27

      Like, I think I was trying to manifest it into existence.

   10. RORox3:30

       Okay.

   11. RIRich3:30

       And we've still got loads of builders and stuff in our house, so we're finding that incredibly tough at the moment because we're very introverted, and it's, it's now we realize how much a quiet space at home is important, 'cause we sort of don't feel like we're getting any rest at the moment. But...

   12. RORox3:46

       Like, I just sit rocking with anxiety in the bedroom-

   13. RIRich3:49

       [laughs]

   14. RORox3:50

       ... until they leave, which is sort of horrible, but it, it brings up all the ADHD stuff of sensory issues-

   15. RIRich3:56

       Mm

   16. RORox3:56

       ... like even it being loud in the house. Social anxiety, I don't wanna walk downstairs and get a cup of tea 'cause I might have to pretend to be human. Um, so yeah, people say moving house is one of the most stressful things you can do, and I would now say they are correct.

   17. APAlex Partridge4:09

       Yeah. I think it's probably very stressful for a neurotypical. How are you finding it as an ADHD person?

   18. RORox4:15

       Like, absolutely horrendous, honestly. I've been in tears. I've had sort of semi-panic attacks. We have to take mental health walks 'cause my, um, I get, like, a tight chest. My back tenses up. It's just incredibly stressful, and then I'm also racked with guilt for being useless. I shouldn't call myself that. We've written a whole book about not calling yourself useless. For being not quite as good as Rich at all of the moving things, so packing all the boxes, arranging men to come and lift the beds, unpacking, admin, council tax. It's like an absolute nightmare of administration, and I've been terrible. I've been crying and rocking in the bedroom, and you've had to take on the lion's share. And although he's saying, like, "It's fine," like, "I'm okay with this. I'd al- I'd rather just get it done," the guilt and shame that I feel for being rubbish and, like, not pulling my weight has been quite excruciating.

   19. RIRich5:19

       I think, though, it's probably worth saying, it, it was only in this house move that I actually did say, "I feel like there's too many demands of me at the moment." And that wasn't aimed at Rox. It was like it was all just too much. Like, I won't bore you with the story, but I'd, I'd messed up the movers. So I thought they were gonna pack the whole house. They turned up, said, "No, we're only taking the big stuff." So I had to get a van and move all of our stuff one house to the other. And obviously I live with, um, they're amazing, but two neurodivergents in our household, one ADHD, one autistic, and I'm getting a lot of questions as well. And I, like, I didn't get cross, but I got quite emotional and was like I just need to be left alone.

   20. RORox6:03

       [laughs]

   21. RIRich6:04

       Like, please just, I don't need you to do anything other than please leave me alone, because there's too many demands on me at the moment, and it's overwhelming. Um, so that, that's probably the first time I'd ever said that.

   22. RORox6:17

       I think it's-

   23. RIRich6:18

       [laughs]

   24. RORox6:18

       ... the first time I've seen him overwhelmed. I've seen me overwhelmed every day. [laughs]

   25. RIRich6:25

       Yeah.

   26. RORox6:26

       But to see you overwhelmed, and I think that then scared the shit out of me as well-

   27. RIRich6:31

       Mm

   28. RORox6:31

       ... 'cause I'm like, "It must be bad. He's, he's struggling."

   29. RIRich6:34

       [laughs]

   30. RORox6:34

       "So I must be really bad." So it's been intense, but we're trying to keep, um, keep positive, and hopefully in a couple of weeks we'll be, peace will be restored.
3. 6:48 – 9:45

   Have you had any huge ADHD realisations since we last had you on? Either Rox about your own ADHD, or Rich as a close observer of ADHD?

   1. RIRich6:48

      you.

   2. RORox6:48

      Thank you so much. [laughs]

   3. APAlex Partridge6:49

      Have you had any, um, big ADHD realisations, either in your own ADHD or, R- Rich as an observer of R-

   4. RIRich6:57

      Well, I think, w- just reiterating, just, sorry, going back to what Rox was saying about, um, feeling, she's really felt useless, and she's felt really guilty about some of the house move stuff. And I think really important, we've, we've reflected back, both, I sort of reflected back to her, but we've both had to sort of take, take stock and say, "Well, yeah, I organized all of the stuff getting here, but like I'm tapping out now. You've gotta decorate it all, and you'll be great at it."

   5. APAlex Partridge7:25

      [laughs]

   6. RIRich7:25

      So, like, and I'm not gonna feel any guilt about letting you decorate the whole place. I just need to monitor the spending.

   7. RORox7:32

      [laughs]

   8. APAlex Partridge7:33

      [laughs]

   9. RORox7:34

      It's so interesting though, the difference between that, and I think that's, I've known it, of course, that I carry a massive amount of shame and guilt for just being me my whole life. But that particular microcosm of moving house and being really faced with it, like I can't... [laughs] Sorry. The box that I packed.

   10. RIRich7:58

       Oh my goodness gracious.

   11. RORox8:00

       So I, I really wanted to help.

   12. RIRich8:02

       Oh.

   13. RORox8:02

       So he's packing up. As he just mentioned, we thought we were having a mover coming to pack the whole house. We'd, like decided to spend on that. That hadn't happened. They were there to move the big stuff, so we had about six hours to pack down the whole house, and I really [laughs] wanted to help. So we had all these boxes, and I seen him packing, and I was like, "Right." So I start packing [laughs] my own box, and I thought I'd done quite well.

   14. RIRich8:28

       Did, did you actually?

   15. RORox8:30

       Yeah, 'cause I packed up a whole kitchen.

   16. RIRich8:31

       So-

   17. RORox8:31

       [laughs]

   18. RIRich8:32

       ... just for everybody who's listening, we, we got some help. We got someone to help us for the day, and this one box out of 30 had its own name, and it was called the Rox box-

   19. APAlex Partridge8:43

       [laughs]

   20. RIRich8:44

       ... because it was quite obviously not packed [laughs] by anyone other than Rox.

   21. RORox8:49

       [laughs]

   22. RIRich8:49

       Like it was all busted open. Like I don't know where the Sellotape was, but it just wasn't, it was, yeah, it didn't stack very well, did it?

   23. RORox8:57

       Yeah. So I've learned-

   24. RIRich8:58

       [laughs]

   25. RORox8:58

       ... I can't pack boxes. But the, like he says, that there's some stuff, like I will decorate the house. I'll obsess on it. I'll spend hours. I'll make Pinterest boards. It'll be an absolute hyperfocus, and h- and that will take hours and hours, and he won't feel guilt or shame. Yet when someone does something more for me, there's this incredible guilt and shame that I'm not doing enough, that he secretly hates me. Hello, RSD. And I'm actually just so, I'm so envious that you can, there's certain things where I might do the lion's share of, and you just sit back and say, "Hey, that's where you're good. You go and shine." There's no crippling shame or guilt.

   26. RIRich9:42

       Mm.

   27. RORox9:42

       Love a slice of that pie.

4. 9:45 – 13:44

   So, no ADHD diagnosis for you yet Rich?

   1. APAlex Partridge9:45

      No ADHD diagnosis for you yet, Rich?

   2. RORox9:47

      Oh, gosh. [laughs]

   3. RIRich9:48

      Oh, so th- this became-

   4. RORox9:50

      [laughs]

   5. RIRich9:51

      ... no is the, is the short answer. Um, and I don't think there ever will be an ADHD diagnosis. There is a real, um, theory at the moment, a fan theory that everyone on tour was mocking me actually-

   6. RORox10:04

      Aw

   7. RIRich10:05

      ... um, that everyone seems to know that I'm, I'm autistic without, without me knowing it. Um, and my, like we strongly think my dad's got it. My eldest is diagnosed autism, autistic. Um-

   8. RORox10:19

      And it's genetic

   9. RIRich10:20

      ... yeah, a- and like loads of traits are just, they scream out. But I probably just, I don't know whether I'll ever pursue it or not. Like I don't, I don't know.

   10. APAlex Partridge10:30

       So you've, you're convinced your dad's got it. Your son's got it.

   11. RIRich10:33

       Yeah.

   12. APAlex Partridge10:34

       And you're in the middle.

   13. RIRich10:35

       Yeah. [laughs]

   14. APAlex Partridge10:36

       And people are telling you they think you have it.

   15. RIRich10:38

       Yeah. Yeah.

   16. APAlex Partridge10:38

       Do you think, what's stopping you from going to get assessed?

   17. RIRich10:42

       It's that, that's, nobody's ever asked me that before. Um, I don't know. I don't, I, I, I don't know the answer, and I don't know how it would help. I think that's probably where I am at the moment. I'm not sure, 'cause even, even since leaving the bank, some of my... Less, less assume that I am, right? Like just for, just for-

   18. RORox11:06

       Aw

   19. RIRich11:06

       ... a case study. Some of my like characteristics, some of my like unmasking has got really like quite visible at home, hasn't it? So I was a bank manager for 20 years, so I was putting on a suit and going and leading 50, 60 individuals every day, um, Mr. Professional, and then I was just drinking, um, a- all the other times. Um, but now it's, yeah, I'm really quite... I'll, I'll say to Rox, like, "I need, I need some time away. Like I'm overstimulated. There's too much noise." I like can't handle London. [laughs] If I walk for more than a couple of hours in anywhere busy, I'm like, "I need to go home. I'm exhausted. This isn't for me. Everyone's making noises I don't like." It's-

   20. RORox11:51

       Also, plans changing brings you-

   21. RIRich11:54

       Yeah

   22. RORox11:54

       ... a lot of anxiety. Also, you're very detailed-orientated. Definitely do get- Overstimulated, and some would say you might have a penchant for being a little bit blunt

   23. RIRich12:08

       Definitely am that, yeah

   24. RORox12:09

       But it's been so wild, I think, because it was really people on the internet that started commenting, saying, "I think [laughs] Rich might be autistic." And I don't know how we've never thought about it with, um, Sia and then obviously seeing your dad. But it's so interesting because I've got to watch this... Yeah, it is unmasking as well, isn't it? I think you were so highly masked, you had to be from being a dad at 18, from stress and having to work and being in poverty. You'd never been able to relax and, and unmask, and actually over the last year, coming out of that job, it, it's almost like a sort of regression. I mean, a lot of people talk about that. Actually, when you get a diagnosis, sometimes you feel like you're regressing because you're s- you stop pretending and you actually allow certain behaviors to come out, and we've definitely seen that.

   25. RIRich13:06

       Mm.

   26. RORox13:06

       So maybe it is what... I'm gonna get you to do one of those online tests.

   27. RIRich13:10

       I don't think I need to.

   28. APAlex Partridge13:11

       What do you think, Richard?

   29. RORox13:12

       [laughs]

   30. APAlex Partridge13:12

       Do you think, do you think you're autistic?
5. 13:44 – 15:34

   Rich, are there still things you just have trouble understanding about ADHD no matter how often they're explained?

   1. APAlex Partridge13:44

      Rich, are there still things you just have trouble understanding about ADHD, no matter how many times you hear them being explained?

   2. RIRich13:55

      Um, I, like, logically struggle sometimes with almost like, and I, I try not to say... I'm just gonna say it. Like, excuse if it comes out fairly blunt.

   3. RORox14:10

      [laughs]

   4. RIRich14:11

      But, like, the in- inability to, like, learn from your mistakes almost. Like, that, yeah, I don't mean it to be horrible-

   5. RORox14:19

      It's fine

   6. RIRich14:19

      ... but, like, Rox will make the same, whether it be a time thing or... Well, it predominantly is time, um, or losing things. It's like h- how, how does that happen? Like, I don't... And I, and I'm compassionate and I don't shame her, I don't judge her, but it's still, like, internally, I'm like, "I don't, I don't understand how, how any brain can be wired to just not retain the am- the, what you need to learn to not do this." And the reason I say it, because Rox's ability to learn stuff is unreal, it's something that I'm incredibly jealous about. So she's, she, if, if her brain decides, "I wanna learn this," like, she'll go and spend an hour, two hours hyper-focusing on it, retaining all of the information and be an expert on it. Like, you did it when we self-released a book. Like, I'm, I'm envious of that.

   7. RORox15:11

      Mm.

   8. RIRich15:11

      But she can't learn how to, like, not lose her sunglasses every time she ha- They're on her head at the moment. But, um, a- and I just, I don't get, I don't understand. I don't think I ever will. It's just one of those ADHD anomalies that I've just-

   9. APAlex Partridge15:27

      [laughs]

   10. RIRich15:28

       ... learned to accept and love. Yeah.

   11. RORox15:31

       I love you had and love-

   12. RIRich15:32

       Yeah

   13. RORox15:32

       ... as well.

6. 15:34 – 28:02

   Rox, be honest, when was the last time you used ADHD to get out of an argument?

   1. RORox15:34

      Yeah.

   2. APAlex Partridge15:34

      And Rox, be honest.

   3. RORox15:36

      Yeah.

   4. APAlex Partridge15:36

      When was the last time you used ADHD to get out of an argument?

   5. RORox15:40

      Oof. [laughs]

   6. RIRich15:43

      If you don't mention-

   7. RORox15:44

      Don't

   8. RIRich15:44

      ... the bath situation now-

   9. RORox15:45

      Oh, no, not the bath

   10. RIRich15:45

       ... I'm going to.

   11. RORox15:47

       You're gonna make me... Okay. It's fine. I can do it. So we have been moving house, and that has meant... And it was a bit of a old, shabby house, so we needed to get some painting done, and we needed one of the bathrooms to be redone, which meant shopping for a bath. So we, [laughs] we went shopping for a bath together, and I had a meltdown in N&C Bathrooms, Orpington, because none of the baths, like, felt quite right, and I think I was already stress elevated from the move, from everything that was happening, from the guilt of being the useless partner, and I was trying all these baths, and I was like, "It's not right, it's not right." And you can feel yourself going, but I just can't, I can't stop it. So I'm crying in N&C Bathrooms, just going, "Nothing's right. None of these baths are right." You were lovely.

   12. RIRich16:52

       There, at that point I was.

   13. RORox16:53

       At that point.

   14. RIRich16:54

       Yeah.

   15. RORox16:55

       Said, "Let's go, let's go to the hou- let's just measure. Let's make sure." So basically, like, ba- a bath is my, um, safe space. Can see a bath up there on the shelf. Someone else-

   16. APAlex Partridge17:05

       Yeah, Dr. Miguel's

   17. RORox17:06

       Dr. Miguel's-

   18. APAlex Partridge17:06

       ADHD item

   19. RORox17:07

       ... feels that way too. Um, if I've had a long day in London or I'm overstimulated, bath with low lights and a bit of chill music, it's just my place to restore, to find peace, and to not lose my mind. So the bath is very important, and I basically, the bathroom's so small I couldn't stretch my legs out, so I s- sat like this. I was like, "I won't restore peace with my knees up like this." Um, so go back to the house to measure it, and then my ADHD brain just goes, "I've got the answer. Let's just not do the bathroom. Let's sack it off, keep what's here. Fine." Unfortunately, the bathroom people were coming tomorrow to start work on the bathroom.

   20. RIRich17:55

       And we were leaving to go on tour as well the next day.

   21. RORox17:58

       Yes. We didn't have much time, but I was like, "Let's just not do it. Let's change plans." And it was, like, so strong in my brain this was the right thing to do. Him with potential autistic traits-

   22. RIRich18:07

       [laughs]

   23. RORox18:08

       ... has the plan changing, just goes [laughs] I could see-

   24. RIRich18:12

       [laughs]

   25. RORox18:13

       ... the blood drain from his face, and I said, "I can tell that hasn't landed very well."

   26. RIRich18:20

       You're coming across like you're, you're being really ni- well, I suppose you were still nice at this point.

   27. RORox18:25

       Was I? Go on, you take over then.

   28. RIRich18:26

       Well, it wasn't just that we had the bathroom people, everything else was purchased, like every piece of equipment, labor, everything was bought and paid for and arriving the next day, and you can't have a bathroom without a bath. So she was like, "Let's just not get it done." I was like, "What do you mean, let's not get it done?" And yeah, she said, "I can see that hasn't landed very well." And I was like, "No, it hasn't landed very well, 'cause it's just not possible." And then, [laughs] then we had this whole... And we never argue, by the way. We had this whole back and forth of, "I don't want you to use your mood against me." I'm like, "I'm not using my mood. I'm allowed to have this experience." And we, it was this-

   29. RORox19:07

       [laughs] And I was like-

   30. RIRich19:08

       We were like teenagers
7. 28:02 – 31:51

   Rich, which one of Rox’s ADHD traits is most likely to cause an argument in your relationship?

   1. APAlex Partridge28:02

      explode and have a row. So I suppose, Rich, if you could pinpoint an ADHD trait of Rox that could potentially trigger a big row, what would that be?

   2. RIRich28:12

      Um, it would be her, like, tidiness. It would be, like, the bedroom, and the bedroom floor particularly. I've always said, um, 'cause I don't mind doing the washing and stuff, um, where I need Rox's help is to not do it, but don't make it harder for me. And, like, the whole wear-again shelf situation is something that does bring up some levels of frustration because it's repeatedly sort of said, "Oh, yeah, well, I'll, I'll try harder. I'll do it." And then you do for a bit, and then it sort of maybe, maybe slips away, and I, I can... I, I... It's funny, though. It, it will always be when I'm, like, a little bit up against it or behind on my emails or whatever. I'll think, "This place is a shit hole. I need it tidy. You're not doing anything. You said you would do this. You haven't done it." Like, but I do say, "Can we do it together?" Um, and I think, actually, let me... I'm gonna elaborate on this. So when I see the bedroom in a mess and I want it tidy, I won't s- I won't shame, I won't shout, I won't say, like, "You, you need to tidy this up." I'll say, "Babe, can we do this together?" Like, I'll do it with you. And, like, sometimes if she's in the middle of something, that will be like, um, like, get a n- like a no.

   3. RORox29:38

      Mm-hmm.

   4. RIRich29:38

      I don't think you'll directly say no. I can't remember how you would definitely word it. And I, I find that quite... Then it can lead to, "Well-"

   5. RORox29:46

      I say, "Absolutely."

   6. RIRich29:48

      "Not right now."

   7. RORox29:49

      But not right now.

   8. RIRich29:50

      Which means never.

   9. RORox29:50

      'Cause I don't want the demand right now.

   10. RIRich29:55

       Mm.

   11. RORox29:55

       So I, i- anything I'm asked, actually, absolutely, in 10 minutes, "Sure, can I do it later?" It's, my body, like, rejects almost jumping up in the moment. Um, but I know that really annoys you. I knew you were gonna say that as well. Like, and it goes back to funnily when you answered and said the inability to learn from the same error. The wear-again shelf, I make this error over and over and over again for years, and I promise I'm gonna do better, and I do for a week. And then I'm busy or I have a bad day, and the clothes are on the floor, and it's a genuine mistake. I'm not conscious in the moment of not doing the wear-again shelf system

   12. RIRich30:42

       I feel like I should explain what the specifics of the wear-again shelf, though. It's important to really... [laughs] So, so Rox has a wear-again shelf. Like, that's fairly self-explanatory. So she takes clothes off that she, that are not dirty, but not, though she's obviously worn them, so she doesn't wanna put them back in the clean. So there's a shelf that is to be worn again. And I haven't got a problem with that, uh, system. It's actually just intuitive. It saves on washing. What, what the, what the problem comes is when Rox is in a rush or is not thinking when she goes to bed, everything comes off and just gets smashed on the wear again. So, like, there's dirty stuff, there's wear-again stuff, there's clean stuff that she would've tried on and not worn. So there's a mixture, and there is no way of me knowing what items of clothing are dirty, wear again, or clean. And, and, and that means there's four loads of washing to do instead of one.

   13. APAlex Partridge31:40

       Sniff test.

   14. RIRich31:41

       Yeah.

   15. APAlex Partridge31:41

       Done.

   16. RIRich31:42

       Well, yeah.

   17. RORox31:43

       Sniff test.

   18. APAlex Partridge31:44

       [laughs]

   19. RORox31:44

       The sniff test.

   20. RIRich31:46

       Yeah.

   21. RORox31:47

       Yeah. Yeah.

   22. APAlex Partridge31:48

       Aside from the move, moving house, which must throw

8. 31:51 – 34:36

   What does a good day look like in your household?

   1. APAlex Partridge31:51

      everything into chaos, yeah, under normal circumstances, what does a good day look like in your household?

   2. RORox31:56

      Oof. Waking up early. He goes to make coffee.

   3. RIRich32:04

      You do sometimes.

   4. RORox32:05

      I do sometimes. I can't commit to every day, but, like, I do do it sometimes. Having coffee in bed, I'd love to say reading a book, but scrolling social media, just I need a good hour to sort of wake up for the day. We'll then write a to-do list together for everything we need to do, and then I'll try and avoid it. So I'll say, "Shall we go for breakfast? Shall we go for a walk?"

   5. RIRich32:30

      Mm.

   6. RORox32:30

      "It's really good for mental health. [laughs] Shall we go to the gym?" Anything to, to not have to work, even though I love work. S- so funny. And then we'll sort of negotiate a day, and I, a lot of our day now is filming content, whether it's for the app Dubbi, which can be horrible 'cause it's cleaning the house, or for online. And what Rich will do amazingly on the good days, he'll set, uh, rewards. So he's like, "If we get through a Dubbi video, an ADHD Love video, you do that email. We send off that thing. We can go out for the afternoon. We could go to an escape room later." And you've never seen me work. Like, "Right. Let's go."

   7. RIRich33:16

      Mm.

   8. RORox33:17

      Just that simple reward at the end of it. And it's not always an escape room. It could be a Cadbury's Creme Egg. It doesn't have to be anything crazy. It's just something that's dopamine inducing, something that I find exciting. I guess it's a bit like dog training, isn't it, that you do? [laughs]

   9. RIRich33:34

      [laughs]

   10. RORox33:34

       I've just realized. You're treating me like a dog. Good boy.

   11. APAlex Partridge33:39

       You've just called him out.

   12. RORox33:40

       [laughs] Oh my God.

   13. RIRich33:42

       I love that you've just admitted that the whole walk, like every since we've moved, like, we go on this walk, and there's this cafe, like, I now know. I, like, I'd... I had had my, like, suspicions. I now know it's to just avoid the work. The reward works better than do, so doing it after though certainly works better than doing it before. 'Cause when we go for a walk, we're like, "Can we just do this first? I feel like getting a walk for mental health will be good before we start the work." And then you get back, and it's like, "I just need a bit of a rest because we've just had a walk."

   14. RORox34:17

       [laughs]

   15. RIRich34:17

       [laughs] Might have a bath. Oh, I need to do my makeup now. Oh, it's time for you to leave to get Lily from school. Like, brilliant. Like, so it does work, getting the work done first, I think, doesn't it?

   16. RORox34:28

       Yeah. So coffee in bed, do the work, go to an escape room, or eat a Creme Egg. That's a great day.

   17. RIRich34:34

       Yeah.

   18. APAlex Partridge34:35

       Sounds banging, to

9. 34:36 – 35:39

   What does a bad day look like?

   1. APAlex Partridge34:36

      be fair.

   2. RORox34:36

      Yeah.

   3. APAlex Partridge34:36

      Maybe I'll ask Rich what a bad day looks like.

   4. RIRich34:40

      Phew. Ah. A bad day is probably just the, the complete opposite. Well, we've, we're, we're sort of living on cycle bad days at the moment. We get up, there's no peace in the house 'cause there's builders everywhere. We know that we need to film content. We don't want to leave. There's nowhere to film it, so we went outside today to try and film, got absolutely, like, biblical rained on, and wind, and you just ended up, ended up miserable. And I think the bad days are always really obvious because we're just not calm. Whether you call it anxiety, whether it's just uptight, whether it's just tense, that's what we've been feeling recently, hasn't it? So yeah. I think a good day is, you can just tell by our demeanors, I think.

   5. APAlex Partridge35:32

      Mm.

   6. RIRich35:32

      Like, everything's fine. Every, nothing, nothing's a problem. But, uh, even the little things become hard

10. 35:39 – 39:48

    Sobriety and how that’s impacted Rox’s music career

    1. RIRich35:39

       on the bad days.

    2. APAlex Partridge35:41

       Last time you guys were on, we spoke quite a lot about sobriety, and your, Rox, music career is going from success to success, which is fascinating to see. And I-

    3. RORox35:49

       Mm

    4. APAlex Partridge35:50

       ... wanted to ask, because surely that must put you in pubs, big festivals, rock and roll dressing rooms. How have you found immersing yourself back in that environment?

    5. RORox36:01

       It's a mixed bag of emotion. I've wanted to do music for 20 years. I'm having some success in it at 39, which is 109 in music years. It's pretty unheard of.

    6. RIRich36:17

       Same as dog years. [laughs]

    7. RORox36:19

       [laughs]

    8. APAlex Partridge36:20

       You got a collar? [laughs]

    9. RORox36:22

       I don't. Oh my gosh. Um, so the, I'm filled with, like, "Oh my God, I can't believe I'm having a second chance." I don't deserve this. How is this happening to me? I, I need to honor this. So if I get the chance to play Slam Dunk Festival or this weekend Download Festival, I'm gonna say yes, 'cause it's like I'm living in some kind of dream world. I really had given up on this dream ever happening. However, being in rock music and rock and roll, and, like, everyone's backstage in vans drinking beer and doing other stuff and having the best time, and I am the most anti-rock and roll person there is. So we turn up, we stay on our own. We'll sometimes just sit in our van in silence. We'll drink water. We'll put sun cream on.

    10. RIRich37:22

        It's, uh, the, in the tour in February, she had scented candles for the, for the van.

    11. RORox37:29

        Yeah

    12. RIRich37:29

        Like, there's n- and there's all... Nobody in the band drinks. It's a sober tour.

    13. RORox37:34

        W- they do drink, but they-

    14. RIRich37:36

        Oh, right

    15. RORox37:36

        ... don't-

    16. RIRich37:36

        Not with us, though

    17. RORox37:37

        We haven't asked that-

    18. RIRich37:38

        Mm

    19. RORox37:38

        ... but they've decided to do that, which I massively appreciate. So it's, yeah, it's the anti-rock and roll tour. Um, but we try and get to bed early. I wear my earphones, um, sorry, earplugs, when I'm not on stage. If I'm going into a festival, I'll watch something for 10 minutes from the side, and then I'll get back. Like, I just treat myself. I wrap myself in cotton wool when I'm there, and actually you can, you can do it. Um, so it's interesting. We're off to Download Festival this weekend, so that's another one to, to try out.

    20. APAlex Partridge38:12

        And Rich, how do you find those environments?

    21. RIRich38:16

        S- so I, uh... Oh.

    22. RORox38:19

        Mm.

    23. RIRich38:19

        Uh, d- is this going somewhere? Do you know why you've asked that question? He does, doesn't he?

    24. RORox38:24

        It might be, it might be the autism.

    25. APAlex Partridge38:25

        Do you find them overstimulating?

    26. RIRich38:26

        No. Oh, right, I thought, I thought you did.

    27. RORox38:28

        You do? 'Cause you hide in the van.

    28. RIRich38:29

        I do, I do. Yeah, I don't... Well, there's two things.

    29. RORox38:32

        Oh.

    30. RIRich38:32

        There's too many people, um, and I don't get tempted to drink, but I hate being around drunk people, and everyone's drunk, and they're all incredibly annoying. I was annoying as well when I was drinking. I d- I like... And that, obviously, um, you know, we're very grateful that me and Rox have get recognized now, and that when the inhibitions of people have gone and their alcohol level's up, like it's, you sort of get... I prefer it in the van. Basically, that's where I stay. We went to Slam Dunk. I went on stage in a nappy. That's why I thought you asked the question. Um, it was part of Rox's act. Like, she got a song called Baby Vendetta. I do my little thing for one song, three minutes, go out with pigtails and a nappy, come back, and fall asleep in the cab of the van, 'cause I'm the driver as well. Like, me and the road, I've like, I love it, don't I?
11. 39:48 – 44:11

    How do you manage RSD when navigating the music industry?

    1. RORox39:48

       Yeah. Yeah.

    2. APAlex Partridge39:49

       We've had a lot of guests come on, talk about RSD. Big topic. How do you manage your RSD when navigating your music career?

    3. RORox39:56

       Oh.

    4. RIRich39:57

       Oh, wow. That's-

    5. RORox39:57

       Gosh, Alex, the questions. So I honestly think it was a huge reason why I waited so long, because I just, I couldn't bear it, the, the possible rejection. In fact, I'd already pre-rejected myself before even trying music. I know they're gonna hate me, 'cause I hate me. My music's terrible. They're gonna hear that it's terrible. So I just put myself on the bench for so many years, and then s- started to, with the help of therapy and you, started to just get a little micro dose of self-belief, and that's all you need is just to get over that first hurdle sometimes of the first song or the first episode. And then when you put yourself on the internet, it absolutely, well, you get destroyed, don't you? [laughs] 'Cause there's so many wonderful people, and probably 99% of comments, um, I get for music are so lovely. It's people hearing their trauma in it or being helped by it or saying very kind things about me. But the 1% is, "You look like a bloke. Shave your armpits, you disgusting pig. Why would he ever be with her? This is terrible. She uses Auto-Tune." J- just, you know, classic internet, and in the early days, that would rock me. Uh, they're the comments I would hyper-focus on. It would make me wanna change what I was posting the next day, and just really, really got in my heads. But strangely enough, creating the ADHD content with you totally changed how I view it, 'cause we get so much hate all the time, um, o- on occasional videos, don't we? Again, it'll be 90% positive-

    6. RIRich41:51

       Yeah, touch two wrong

    7. RORox41:52

       ... but sometimes you end up on the wrong side, as I'm sure that you know-

    8. RIRich41:56

       [laughs]

    9. RORox41:56

       ... wrong side of blooming Instagram, and you're like, "Whoa." And I was able to detach, I think 'cause I had you with me, and we were able to giggle, and he'd, he'd read the comments in a funny voice. Do the voice.

    10. RIRich42:10

        No.

    11. RORox42:11

        Do it. Come on.

    12. RIRich42:11

        Oh, Rox, this is a client.

    13. RORox42:13

        Just be like, "Why is he with her? She's a disgusting pig."

    14. RIRich42:15

        She's disgusting. Look at her disgusting armpits.

    15. APAlex Partridge42:20

        Like Lilo & Stitch, isn't it?

    16. RORox42:21

        Yeah. [laughs]

    17. RIRich42:22

        It's Stitch, yes.

    18. RORox42:22

        He'd read the worst ones, and it'd just make me laugh, and I think I was able to understand that just because somebody might not like me in any capacity, I don't have to take that on. That doesn't have to affect how I show up. So the ADHD content, showing up With the things you're most ashamed of, and actually being okay with showing that side of yourself brought so much self-confidence that I've now been able to take into music, and I don't... I've never been, I've never ever had the confidence that I have now. I'm still learning and it's still growing, but just witnessing it, like, that if you come up against RSD and if you say, "I'm gonna show up anyway. I'm gonna do it anyway. Maybe someone will throw a bottle of piss at me at Download Festival on Saturday. I'll keep singing." Like, you get to keep moving, and that's okay, isn't it?

    19. APAlex Partridge43:23

        Very powerful. I mean, everyone listening will at some point probably already come across a negative comment on social media directed at them, and to be able to look at it objectively and to know that it's actually most likely a reflection of how unhappy that other person is, and they're just venting. Um, with that realization, it can save a lot of mental health.

    20. RORox43:43

        I think so.

    21. RIRich43:43

        Some of them are hilarious as well. Like, there's a whole subsection of... It's in America somewhere. I don't know where-

    22. RORox43:50

        [laughs]

    23. RIRich43:50

        ... but it definitely is, um, for this particular video. There's a whole portion of the internet that was just like, "Of course she's got blue hair." Like, I didn't know that was a thing. Like-

    24. RORox44:00

        Yeah

    25. RIRich44:00

        ... if you've got blue hair, you're just an idiot, apparently.

    26. RORox44:03

        It's true. [laughs]

    27. APAlex Partridge44:04

        [laughs] I live in Brighton.

    28. RORox44:05

        [laughs]

    29. RIRich44:05

        [laughs]

    30. APAlex Partridge44:06

        It's, you know, every second street-
12. 44:11 – 46:58

    I've always wanted to ask a musician, what do you think the association between ADHD and music is?

    1. APAlex Partridge44:11

       I ask every guest what their ADHD item is, and a couple of guests now have said headphones, and the explanation has been the same. It's a way to drown out the outside n- world, the outside noise, and music seems to be a great way to do that. And I've always wanted to ask a musician this. What do you think the association is between ADHD and music?

    2. RORox44:31

       I mean, there's a incredible crossover between ADHD and music, and also ADHD and heavier music. Recently, as I've been going into these rock festivals, um, and kind of seeing how many neurodivergent people there are there. You know, what's going on? What's going on here? I mean, first of all, we're a sensitive bunch, aren't we? And music is the ultimate expression of human sensitivities, whether that is joy or it's dancing, happiness, my music, sadness, and depression [laughs] . It allows authentic human emotion and energy to be transmuted, and we get to listen to it. I think secondly, we have very, very busy internalized hyperactive brains, and it's a way to shut up the noise, isn't it? Like, you put headphones on, you listen to a song, you can be in another world. You're not listening to the argument you had five years ago, the work that you haven't done, the constant shame. It's quiet. You actually just have a moment of peace.

    3. RIRich45:44

       Sometimes [laughs]

    4. RORox45:45

       What?

    5. RIRich45:45

       Sometimes though, I've heard you say, like, you've been listening to music while walking through London, and it will be, like, the theme tune of the film that you're starring in-

    6. RORox45:55

       Oh, yeah

    7. RIRich45:55

       ... like, when you're walking along.

    8. RORox45:58

       Oh, yeah.

    9. APAlex Partridge45:58

       [laughs]

    10. RORox45:58

        I will pretend I'm in... It's often a rom-com, and I'll, like, walk. Like, I will walk, like hips are going.

    11. RIRich46:06

        [laughs]

    12. RORox46:06

        And I'm like this, and I'm almost, I'm feeling, like, high 'cause I'm in a film. It's absolutely crazed behavior, but I just absolutely love it, or pretend I'm in a music video.

    13. APAlex Partridge46:17

        Do you ever walk out the cinema and you sort, you sort of adopted the personality of the, the lead role-

    14. RORox46:22

        Oh

    15. APAlex Partridge46:22

        ... in that film?

    16. RORox46:22

        Yeah, copying the accents-

    17. APAlex Partridge46:24

        Mm

    18. RORox46:24

        ... is a really weird one. I d- I don't know why that happens, but I think it is a neurodivergent thing, that we can watch a show or an episode or meet someone. I've had it in work when I've met Australian people-

    19. APAlex Partridge46:35

        [laughs]

    20. RORox46:35

        ... and then, "Oh, yeah, mate." And you see them look at you like, "Oh, who's this cringe bag?"

    21. RIRich46:40

        [laughs]

    22. RORox46:41

        Oh, it's one of the weird ones. Do you do that? Is that an ADHD thing, or am I just-

    23. APAlex Partridge46:46

        I definitely do. Yeah, yeah.

    24. RORox46:47

        [laughs]

    25. APAlex Partridge46:47

        If it's, if an action film, I've strut to the car a little bit more confidently.

    26. RORox46:50

        [laughs]

    27. APAlex Partridge46:50

        Fast and the Furious. Nearly got arrested driving home. [laughs]

    28. RIRich46:54

        [laughs]

    29. RORox46:55

        Love that. We're so, we're very impressionable.

13. 46:58 – 50:08

    Has taking to the stage again dug up anything within you, either insecurities or passion for performing?

    1. APAlex Partridge46:58

       taking to the stage again, has that dug up any insecurities within you?

    2. RORox47:02

       Every single one, Alex. Yeah. I think, um, when I used to do music before, I was younger, so I had the recklessness of youth. I was drinking a lot of alcohol, so that would help. And going back to doing it when you're older, the thing I never ever wanna do is let shame make me show up smaller. I did it for so long, shoulders down, head down. "Oh, I've got a little song." So I've really pushed myself in the opposite direction. What is, like, the anti-shame way to show up on this stage? If I was gonna show up and literally not give a shit what anyone thought, which is the [laughs] total opposite, 'cause I'm overthinking what everyone thinks, what would I look like? And actually, probably for the first time, the festival I'd done a couple of weeks ago, I went on, I had this skimpy outfit, had these long nails, had my hair up here. It's like I become a different person, almost like a superhero version. I think a lot of, a lot of people in music have aliases for that reason, and it really works for me.

    3. RIRich48:13

       Mm.

    4. RORox48:13

       'Cause I dress up like a rock star, and then I think in my head, "Go on stage and just act like a rock star." So I'm like, "Rawr, yeah." [laughs] This whole other character comes out, which is probably ADHD as well, isn't it? The ability to imagine, to act, to become. Um, and it is becoming, where it has been the thing that's kept me so small, it's becoming a bit of a superpower, and I'm so excited to see what happens.

    5. RIRich48:41

       You said, um, I think it was on stage. I can't remember. It might've been one of our shows. Really nice way you explained it is, like, that everybody's an imposter. Like, nobody's been born a doctor.

    6. RORox48:52

       Oh.

    7. RIRich48:52

       Nobody's been born a rock star. Even the rock stars, like, they don't eat their breakfast cereal in their pants, like, rocking out. Like, everyone's all an act.

    8. RORox49:01

       Honestly, that blew my mind, just that realization-

    9. RIRich49:05

       Mm

    10. RORox49:05

        ... 'cause my mind was always, "Happy, successful people over here, me over here. Life's winners over here, life's losers over here. I'm the imposter. I'm not right. I'm not meant to do music. I'm not good enough." Hold on a sec. Nobody come out the womb shredding guitar like that.

    11. RIRich49:25

        [laughs]

    12. RORox49:26

        Everyone's learnt it, and the most wonderful thing when you got ADHD, right, we know how to mask. Masking is pretending to be someone [laughs] that you're not. For many of us, it's pretending to be neurotypical. What if I pretend to be a rock star?

    13. RIRich49:43

        [laughs]

    14. RORox49:44

        And then you're singing on stage to 6,000 people. Like, that ability to pretend, and what you realize, if you pretend enough-

    15. RIRich49:54

        Mm

    16. RORox49:54

        ... one day perhaps you become. Not neurotypical, though. That one never worked. [laughs]

    17. RIRich49:58

        No.

    18. RORox49:58

        Rock star's working. Neurotypical-

    19. RIRich50:00

        Doesn't work. Pretend to do the wear again shelves then.

    20. RORox50:03

        [laughs]

    21. RIRich50:03

        Do you know what I mean? [laughs]

    22. RORox50:06

        Oh, dear. Yeah, I wish.

14. 50:08 – 52:09

    So Rich, when was the last time you had a moment of "Thank god Rox is NOT neurotypical" and you found yourself really cherishing Rox's eccentricities?

    1. APAlex Partridge50:08

       But Rich, when was the last time you had a moment, then, when you thought, "Thank God Rox isn't neurotypical," and you found yourself really cherishing her eccentricities?

    2. RIRich50:22

       Ooh, um-

    3. RORox50:23

       [laughs]

    4. RIRich50:25

       No, there's, there's too many to choose from.

    5. RORox50:27

       Good. Thank you. [laughs]

    6. RIRich50:28

       That's what I'm going with. Um, [laughs] it will be, um, the cr- the, the, the creativity. Now, I, I know that it's not a prerequisite of ADHD to be creative, but I'm yet to meet somebody with ADHD that isn't creative. So maybe it should be, um, in the diagnostic criteria.

    7. RORox50:49

       [laughs]

    8. RIRich50:49

       But, um, that when it comes to, well, anything really, a holiday, or video ideas, or, um, decorating the house, or this crazy idea of me leaving a job that I was doing for 20 years and I hated, um, w- it just couldn't, it couldn't have worked. That's probably the best one, actually. Like, we couldn't have done what we've done if Rox was neurotypical because it ju- it just wouldn't work. I think Rox being the ideas person, [laughs] um, and me being neurotypical works, or, well, whatever.

    9. RORox51:29

       Good at planning and detail orientation. [laughs]

    10. RIRich51:30

        Good at planning and detail and execution-

    11. RORox51:33

        [laughs]

    12. RIRich51:33

        ... and all the stuff that she's not very good at.

    13. RORox51:36

        Yeah.

    14. RIRich51:37

        Um, w- just works perfectly, really, because otherwise, you know, ADHD Love would've been five videos, then Rox would've got bored, um, and it would've been binned off. The book would've been half done and never released. Um, so it's just when, when both... And I don't think we would work.

    15. RORox51:57

        It's-

    16. RIRich51:57

        And what would you have? Imagine that social media handle, Neurotypical Love.

    17. RORox52:01

        [laughs]

    18. RIRich52:01

        Like, it wouldn't-

    19. RORox52:03

        Well, that's just every film

    20. RIRich52:04

        ... it wouldn't work. That's just everyone, isn't it?

    21. RORox52:05

        That's everyone, every film-

    22. RIRich52:06

        Yeah

    23. RORox52:06

        ... every representation.

    24. APAlex Partridge52:08

        Since

15. 52:09 – 56:30

    Do you consider that ADHD could be trauma related?

    1. APAlex Partridge52:09

       we last spoke, we've had a couple of guests come on who have really been pushing the trauma theory as a means of ADHD foundation in early childhood. Do you consider that ADHD could be trauma related?

    2. RORox52:20

       For me, personally, 100%. I feel... And it's, it's very difficult because we've spoken about this before, and it can be-

    3. RIRich52:31

       It's divisive, isn't it?

    4. RORox52:32

       It's very divisive. Um, I'd read a book that I'd really loved, um, called Scattered Minds, and it really resonated. It'd been a bit of a game changer for me, and we mentioned it on social media and really upset a lot of people. And I think that was a wake-up call to me that we all have different experiences, and we will have different systems that relate to us. And for some people, it's gonna be intolerable that it might be from that. Um-

    5. RIRich53:07

       It was the parents as well. Like, that-

    6. RORox53:08

       Yeah, of course

    7. RIRich53:09

       ... it really upset a lot of parents-

    8. RORox53:10

       Of course

    9. RIRich53:10

       ... saying, "Well, my Johnny's got a lovely childhood-"

    10. RORox53:14

        Yeah

    11. RIRich53:14

        ... "so it can't be my fault," like that sort of.

    12. RORox53:17

        Yeah, and I think I was in my own head about my own childhood.

    13. RIRich53:20

        Yeah.

    14. RORox53:20

        Now I can see, um, the thing in that book that resonated for me was the author talks about ADHD being a sensitivity. The genetic part is a sensitivity, whether that is emotional, physical, or both, being highly sensitive. And where it can become traumatic is if you live in a highly stressful environment, or an environment without support, or an environment where there's a lot of aggression and shame, and that was my childhood, so that made sense to me. I could see the sensitivity, the artistry, the, uh, sort of entrepreneur. I could see with it this dreamworld person that was very sensitive, and I could see how that had been kind of deeply hurt in the environment that I grew up in. And we know that stress makes ADHD symptoms a lot worse, and children can be stressed at home. So that's how I kind of formulate it in my own brain. But again, would never say that's 100% why it was worse or, or what caused it. That's, you know, there's doctors arguing about that.

    15. RIRich54:41

        Mm.

    16. RORox54:41

        So [laughs] I will just read a-

    17. RIRich54:43

        There's doctors, aren't ya?

    18. RORox54:43

        Read the books.

    19. APAlex Partridge54:44

        Well, I've had 30 on here, and they all say different things. [laughs]

    20. RIRich54:47

        Yeah.

    21. RORox54:47

        There you go. Isn't that- Mind-blowing and wonderful. I think the ADHD brain is always looking for a black and white answer, the exact answer, the exact cause. I want to know, is it 100% genetic? Is it a cluster of 50 other symptoms just coming under the heading of ADHD? Is it related to trauma? And you can find a doctor, you've spoken to them, probably, that will tell you each one

    22. RIRich55:13

        Something that we're, you know, since probably that video, since our channel's growing, something that we're incredibly passionate about, and w- we, you know, we write about it in Small Talk, is wherever it comes from, the one thing that is real is the symptoms and the struggles. Like, so, don't know. Like-

    23. RORox55:34

        [laughs]

    24. RIRich55:34

        ... it doesn't matter, does it, r- like, really

    25. RORox55:37

        It doesn't matter where it comes from or what you call it, there's so many of us out here dealing with similar things. Of course, everyone's experience is different, but there is a bit of a universal experience of ADHD, where you listen to people speaking and think, "Oh, yeah, that's me." And I think that can be... That, that was really helpful for me, because I hyperfocused on where it comes from and all those kind of things. I think many of us do, trying to find answers, so many of us late diagnosed have felt so chronically misunderstood that we go on a hyperfocused mission to understand ourselves, and actually it can leave us more confused. So I had to kind of put down the research papers and the books and the science and just go, "I really struggle with these things, and I'm gonna focus on acceptance and support." And actually, that's kind of made life a little bit easier.

16. 56:30 – 1:00:13

    Rox, has your father now accepted your diagnosis?

    1. APAlex Partridge56:30

       Last time you were here, you told a very moving story about your father and stepmom not accepting your diagnosis.

    2. RORox56:38

       Yes.

    3. APAlex Partridge56:39

       Has there been any positive movements there?

    4. RIRich56:41

       Oh, dear.

    5. RORox56:43

       Um, no. In fact, the other way, unfortunately. Um, I'm gonna try not to cry again.

    6. RIRich56:51

       Just let it out. I'll pick it up.

    7. RORox56:53

       [laughs]

    8. RIRich56:53

       I think you cried last time, didn't you?

    9. RORox56:55

       I did cry last time.

    10. RIRich56:55

        Yeah.

    11. RORox56:55

        That's all good. Um, but I've done more therapy since then, so test.

    12. APAlex Partridge57:00

        You've, you've been crying more since this, uh, this-

    13. RORox57:02

        Shh. Hang on

    14. APAlex Partridge57:03

        [laughs]

    15. RORox57:03

        Um, no, it didn't go well, because they saw a clip of it, um, and saw me say what had happened when I told them I had ADHD, and that led to, um, not a very nice phone call to you. Um-

    16. RIRich57:22

        No, that was about the post about your mom, I think, or, like, happy birthday or something like that. It was something. It wasn't just, it wasn't-

    17. RORox57:30

        It wasn't just Alex

    18. RIRich57:30

        ... it wasn't Alex's fault. [laughs]

    19. RORox57:32

        No. But I think m- me speaking-

    20. RIRich57:35

        Yeah

    21. RORox57:36

        ... not just about this on your show-

    22. APAlex Partridge57:37

        [laughs]

    23. RORox57:38

        ... speaking about other things is very, very triggering to them. Um, and my dad, yeah, reacted with a bit of anger, a bit of shame, um, and we haven't really spoken since then. Um, I am doing a lot of therapy about that at the moment, and really, really, really fighting for forgiveness, to find forgiveness, and I've done that before. Um, I've found forgiveness for him before, 'cause I love him very much, and my dad had very, very tough early life. So there's logical reasons for exactly... He makes exact sense. He hasn't done anything wrong. He's not a bad person. But it's caused me an incredible amount of pain for so many years, and I really want to move through that. I wanna come out of that narrative, and I'm coming up against my own stories, which is, like, I need to let go. I'm almost 40. I need to let go of being the victim in this dynamic. I need to let go of being the problem child. I need to let go of being a disappointment. I need to let it all go. But it's so strange, 'cause it makes me so unhappy. Us not speaking makes me so unhappy. I, I lost my mum at 22, so I don't have either parent. That's bloody brutal. You move house and nobody knows where I live, doesn't even know that I've moved house. It really hurts. I play my first festival at 39, no, no family there. Sorry. I've obviously chosen family, new family, but no, the experiences that other people get with a parent, I don't get at the moment, and I know a big reason is because I'm speaking out about things, and it's almost, it's kind of the punishment I've created myself by speaking out. And my true hope is that I can find real forgiveness, not that, like, wishy-washy, "I'm gonna forgive 'cause it's the right thing to do." I mean, I'm gonna process the pain, feel everything, understand why it's there, and then maybe, um, get to forgiveness, and maybe reconciliation. That's what I think every kid who is in a difficult situation or no contact with a parent would always be desperate and want a reconciliation. I don't know whether it's gonna be part of my story, but I'm gonna do everything I can to possibly get there.

17. 1:00:13 – 1:03:46

    Rox, my producer has a personal question for you…

    1. APAlex Partridge1:00:13

       I'm gonna read the next question verbatim, 'cause I wanna do it in the most respectful way possible. Um, and it actually comes from my producer. It's Timon, who's sat over there. Um, you don't have to ans- answer. We can cut this bit out. Um-

    2. RORox1:00:27

       [laughs]

    3. APAlex Partridge1:00:29

       "I lost my mother to cancer last year, and I've been going through a real journey considering all of the things she missed out on since she died. I was wondering what your mother would make of your recent success as a couple and your own personal ADHD journey."

    4. RORox1:00:45

       Well, I think, in fact, I know she'd be very proud, and just must say I'm so sorry It's a absolutely brutal journey. I'd like to tell you it gets easier. Doesn't, but we do get stronger. And yeah, the things they miss out on, oh, my Lord. That's the saddest part, isn't it? It's not even our own pain, it's what they miss out on. Um, my mum was so wonderful and kind. Probably had ADHD, by the way, because her friends called her Mad Woman.

    5. RIRich1:01:28

       [laughs]

    6. RORox1:01:30

       Her initials, Linda, Angela, Teresa, Em- Emery spelt LATE, and it was quite funny 'cause she was always running late, occasionally racked up a credit card, and had to have those removed. But she was so sensitive, and empathetic, and emotional, and the love that I got for 22 years was enough to help me, like, keep growing. Even now in my late 30s, it's so strange. Um, the impact they have never goes away, and it comes out in these beautiful echoes in how I love my own kids. I sometimes say something, I'm like, "Oh, my God, cringe. I'm literally my mum." I'm like, exactly the same as her. So I think that she would be so proud. I, I think one thing that is heartbreaking, um, is that she'll never meet Rich

    7. RIRich1:02:25

       She would've loved me, I reckon.

    8. RORox1:02:27

       She would've loved you.

    9. RIRich1:02:28

       [laughs]

    10. RORox1:02:28

        You didn't get me on the dad question. You got me on a mum question. I like that. Um-

    11. RIRich1:02:32

        If at first don't succeed-

    12. RORox1:02:34

        Yeah [laughs]

    13. RIRich1:02:34

        ... go for the mum.

    14. RORox1:02:35

        Yeah. She, she would've, she would've-

    15. RIRich1:02:36

        [laughs]

    16. RORox1:02:37

        Go for the dead mama.

    17. RIRich1:02:38

        [laughs]

    18. RORox1:02:38

        She would've loved you, 100%, and she would've loved the kids, Lily and Sir. She would've just been obsessed. She would've been like, "It's great, Grandma." And those, those really hurt 'cause books, great, music career, great. It's, it's kind of meaningless. Like, it's wonderful at work, in a work career. It's meaningless compared to finding family and happiness. And her one wish for me, actually, was obviously that I would find love, but also that I would find a house. I would buy a house and have stability, and we've just done that. For me, it's the first time at 39, and that's been quite poignant to sort of just think, "Oh, man, she'd be so happy." I have this wonderful partner. I have these two beautiful kids, and I'm pretty quite happy most of the time. Mm.

    19. RIRich1:03:33

        Yeah. Well done.

    20. RORox1:03:36

        Yeah.

    21. APAlex Partridge1:03:37

        Thank you very much for sharing that. That's very poignant. Poignant.

    22. RORox1:03:40

        No problem. You'll be okay. You'll be okay. Oh, man.

18. 1:03:46 – 1:05:47

    The ‘ADHD item’ segment

    1. APAlex Partridge1:03:47

       I ask all my guests to tell me an item that most represents ADHD in their life, and yours was... I'm actually gonna light this.

    2. RORox1:03:55

       Oh, yes.

    3. APAlex Partridge1:03:55

       It was a scented candle.

    4. RORox1:03:57

       Yes.

    5. APAlex Partridge1:03:57

       I'll pass this to you, Rox, and ex- why is a scented candle your ADHD item?

    6. RORox1:04:03

       Oh, just have a sniff.

    7. RIRich1:04:07

       Tropical sunset. I love that.

    8. RORox1:04:09

       Just gonna seat it here. Candles, as Rich mentioned earlier, when I go on tour in the van, I will light scented candles in, like, the scummiest, cheap, like, rock and roll van 'cause I just need the vibes to be good. Candles, when I'm overstimulated, I've had a bad day in London, I have a bath, and I light candles. If I'm feeling stressed at home or anxious, I light a candle, and in fact, writing the book, I could not write unless I had a candle lit. It's this strange... I don't know. It just, the smell, the flickering light, I feel it's a sensory dream, and it helps to calm me down. It's something to smell, something to look at. It's absolute vibes. Obviously, I love the most expensive ones, and I-

    9. RIRich1:05:01

       She's not allowed to do the food shopping with me anymore because it doubles the price of the food shop-

    10. APAlex Partridge1:05:06

        [laughs]

    11. RIRich1:05:06

        ... because she'll just go and fill the trolley with scented candles.

    12. RORox1:05:09

        Yeah, absolutely, but they're just the most awesome little things, and now I always see a candle, and I always think of the book because I would turn the lights down, open the laptop, light a candle, and have a, a alcohol-free gin and tonic. That's how I made it through writing the book, 'cause I just needed my little dopamine, um, things, my little sensory things. Like, I must have looked like an absolute-

    13. APAlex Partridge1:05:32

        [laughs]

    14. RORox1:05:33

        ... maniac. But yeah, I just think they're the best thing ever, and I just have to not spend 50 pounds on them.

    15. APAlex Partridge1:05:40

        [laughs] Well, I bought two, so that one will go on the ADHD-

    16. RORox1:05:42

        You did?

    17. APAlex Partridge1:05:42

        ... item shelf later on. Then you can take the, the second one home with you.

    18. RIRich1:05:45

        Ah.

    19. RORox1:05:46

        Thank you. You'll be

19. 1:05:47 – 1:20:38

    Why your new book is called ‘Small Talk’

    1. RORox1:05:47

       happy.

    2. APAlex Partridge1:05:47

       Keen to talk about the book, Small Talk. What's it about, and what did writing it together teach you about neurodivergence?

    3. RORox1:05:55

       I'll do what it's about, and you can do writing it together.

    4. RIRich1:05:58

       Sure.

    5. RORox1:05:59

       So it's not about small talk at all, just to, like, make everyone feel better, 'cause we know we all hate that. It's about talking down to ourselves as neurodivergents. We were actually writing a complete other book, which was a lot more happy, kind of about neurodivergent joy and creating this lovely life. It was very sweet. And then in the most ADHD way ever, um, we were a few chapters in, and I decided I didn't want to write that book anymore, wanted to throw it away.

    6. RIRich1:06:31

       Well, you didn't just decide. Like, there was a reason for it.

    7. RORox1:06:34

       Yeah, I'm getting to the reason.

    8. RIRich1:06:35

       Oh, you are. Sorry.

    9. RORox1:06:37

       So I was researching one of the chapters in this other book, a happier book, and I did a poll on our Instagram, um, what are some of your core beliefs as someone with ADHD? A cheeky little chapter on identity. The answers, thousands and thousands of answers, were the most heartbreaking things I've ever read. ... people's core beliefs. I'm unlovable, I'm lazy, I'm stupid, I'll never amount to anything. I'm actually a very bad person. Thousands and thou- There wasn't one good one in there. And I read all these things and just was like, "I don't wanna write the happy book yet. I wanna write this book. I wanna talk about this." What I would say is the worst symptom of ADHD is the self-hatred that so many of us walk around with. The belief that something is wrong with us, words like lazy, useless, stupid. We don't talk about it. Talk about the symptoms of the losing things, the forgetfulness, the sensitivity all the time, but don't talk about how much so many of us deeply hate ourselves, 'cause it's really can be quite embarrassing and quite isolating. And I hadn't made the connection between ADHD and why I hated myself until I read all these other people's comments, and then it hit me. Living in this world with undiagnosed or unsupported ADHD leads you to a very, very dark place. In research in the book, found out one of the most devastating things, which was ADHD people were four times more likely to have tried to take their own life. I'm in that statistic, when I was 23. And those dots connected, and I ran into Rich and was like, "We need to write a book about core beliefs. We all hate ourselves. Throw the positive one away." He was maybe a bit shocked at first.

    10. RIRich1:08:50

        Well, I'll come to that on my bit.

    11. RORox1:08:52

        You'll, you'll get to that. But yeah, it's about negative core beliefs, and I went through every single one, think it was about 30,000 replies. Went through... Proper hyperfocus moment. Every single one in an Excel spreadsheet and a little tally chart next to it. And we extrapolated out the top 10, and those top 10 became the chapters of the book. And each one, I explore the story of where that negative belief took hold for me. So when did I first think I was lazy? And then we work through how to unwind it, how to believe something different about yourself. Not that you're lazy, but you work really hard in a different way. So every one of those beliefs is worked through and then turned round. I cried my way through writing it. It's probably no surprise, because unearthing just some of the sad memories about where those horrible beliefs first came was quite difficult, but also incredibly cathartic, and I truly, truly hope it can be a real eye-opener for people reading it, that the only thing they need to fix about themselves is how much they dislike themselves. It isn't actually the ADHD or the behaviors. They're all okay. They can be supported. They can actually be loved. But your crippling self-hatred, that's gonna hold you back from having beautiful relationships, going after your dreams at work. It's gonna lead to a horrible life. And what would it be like if rather than walking round thinking we're lazy, useless losers, if we walked round thinking we were creative, and empathetic, and funny? It's probably gonna lead you somewhere a lot better.

    12. RIRich1:10:48

        How do you follow that?

    13. RORox1:10:48

        [laughs]

    14. RIRich1:10:49

        How do I follow that little monologue?

    15. RORox1:10:52

        [laughs] I think I dissociated. I s-

    16. RIRich1:10:54

        It's so well. Like, is that in the book? 'Cause you just- [laughs]

    17. RORox1:10:58

        [laughs]

    18. APAlex Partridge1:10:59

        I don't need to read it now.

    19. RORox1:11:00

        That's it.

    20. RIRich1:11:00

        You don't need to read it. Just, um, I think just to... The one thing to add, and then I'll, I'll go on to the funny bit of writing it-

    21. RORox1:11:07

        Oh

    22. RIRich1:11:08

        ... together.

    23. RORox1:11:08

        Yeah.

    24. RIRich1:11:08

        Um, we're really proud of this. We were proud of Dirty Laundry, but I think as a, as a piece of work, like, I know... Well, I speak for both of us. It's, it's really good. I know, like, it's quite arrogant to say that-

    25. RORox1:11:22

        How can you say that?

    26. RIRich1:11:22

        But, like-

    27. RORox1:11:23

        I could never say that

    28. RIRich1:11:23

        ... it is really good, and it's not just me saying it.

    29. RORox1:11:26

        Ooh.

    30. RIRich1:11:26

        Like, we've-
20. 1:20:38 – 1:24:08

    Do any heartwarming stories from your audience spring to mind?

    1. APAlex Partridge1:20:38

       content, the book, stories like that, they no doubt help so many people. You must get so many messages. Do you have any particular heartwarming stories that come to mind?

    2. RORox1:20:49

       We get honestly so many every day, and I don't want to sound arrogant, but you mu- you must know that too. Like, it, talking about something that, where people are learning for the first time or realizing it isn't just me or having answers to why they've struggled, it's a huge shift for p- for people. I think some of the ones that have affected me the most is when we've seen people in real life.

    3. RIRich1:21:16

       Mm.

    4. RORox1:21:16

       'Cause a message is, is one thing, but if you see a woman who starts crying and is like, "Oh my gosh, you saved my marriage," or, "You have made me a better mum. I was really struggling with my kid," that just, that breaks me down. 'Cause you just, it, you can sometimes get in a habit of, oh, we're just making these silly little videos of what we're doing. I can anyway. Maybe being a little bit self-derogatory. And then you see the actual human impact it can have, and yeah, somebody crying, it just, uh, that sends me.

    5. RIRich1:21:54

       You also get, um, a l- like, a little bit desensitized when, f- to the internet. Like, when just from the scale of it, you know, we can put a video out and it get two million views and X amount of thousand comments and leading to X amount of hundred DMs and stuff, and it d- like, that is a number, and it's a metric, and it's like, wow, that's amazing, we're helping loads of people. But then we go to London and do a show about Small Talk and this topic to 1,200 people, and it's like, wow, this is loads of people.

    6. RORox1:22:30

       Mm.

    7. RIRich1:22:30

       So it's like the real life thing I can really, like-

    8. RORox1:22:33

       Mm

    9. RIRich1:22:33

       ... agree and, like, meeting everyone after and stuff, and it just coming real. Of course, the internet is real, and they're consuming it, and it's, and, and the help is real, and the connection is, is real. But I don't know. Like, it's tough sometimes to... I mean, you, you must as well. You know, some of your videos get millions of views, and it's like, it's difficult to comprehend just-

    10. RORox1:22:53

        Mm

    11. RIRich1:22:54

        ... how many people that is.

    12. APAlex Partridge1:22:55

        Mm.

    13. RIRich1:22:56

        Um-

    14. APAlex Partridge1:22:56

        Yeah, I mean, likewise, I, I, I get stopped. Um, I've had women, men, uh, hug me and burst into tears-

    15. RIRich1:23:03

        Yeah

    16. APAlex Partridge1:23:04

        ... because they felt seen for the first time.

    17. RORox1:23:07

        Mm.

    18. APAlex Partridge1:23:07

        And you know, I think there's a lot of parallels between our journeys-

    19. RORox1:23:10

        Mm

    20. APAlex Partridge1:23:10

        ... in c- content creation, entering the space at a similar time.

    21. RORox1:23:13

        Mm.

    22. APAlex Partridge1:23:13

        So yeah, totally get it, and it's the most liberating, rewarding feeling. It's quite easy to be stuck behind a phone, and you just see the numbers going up on a screen. Then you-

    23. RIRich1:23:20

        Yeah

    24. APAlex Partridge1:23:20

        ... meet people. Someone says, "Alex" at a train station-

    25. RIRich1:23:23

        [laughs]

    26. APAlex Partridge1:23:23

        ... or, "Rich Rox, it is you," ah, and they burst into tears on you.

    27. RIRich1:23:27

        We got stopped on the way here.

    28. RORox1:23:28

        Yeah.

    29. RIRich1:23:28

        Like, from the little pub that we were at, the, a lady stopped us-

    30. RORox1:23:31

        Yeah
21. 1:24:08 – 1:31:18

    Washing machine of woes

    1. APAlex Partridge1:24:08

       could talk for so long. I'm conscious of time. Uh, it's really running away. It's been so fun. I wanna do the washing machine of woes, uh-

    2. RORox1:24:14

       Yes

    3. APAlex Partridge1:24:14

       ... before we, before we end. Um-

    4. RIRich1:24:15

       We were the first ones to see this, weren't we?

    5. APAlex Partridge1:24:17

       This is, we were the first ones. Yeah, this is your, the-

    6. RIRich1:24:18

       Now look how slick that is

    7. APAlex Partridge1:24:20

       ... anniversary

    8. RIRich1:24:20

       ... how you're picking it up.

    9. APAlex Partridge1:24:21

       Look at that. There we go.

    10. RIRich1:24:22

        [laughs]

    11. APAlex Partridge1:24:22

        Seven months of practice. You're gonna ask me what have I learned in the last seven months to how to pick up a washing machine. [laughs] I still don't remember to empty it. Every week I ask my Instagram community for their ADHD woes, and I put them in this washing machine because for me, the washing machine represents my biggest ADHD woe, which is memory loss, um, because I always forget my washing in the machine. I'm sure you guys do the same.

    12. RIRich1:24:46

        I don't.

    13. APAlex Partridge1:24:47

        You don't?

    14. RIRich1:24:48

        Well, sometimes.

    15. APAlex Partridge1:24:50

        This week in the washing machine of woes: I drank alcohol for years and managed to kick my addiction after 20 years of trying. My daughter is just getting to the age now, 17, where she's curious about alcohol, and I want to beg her not to start, but I don't want to deprive her of a social life. Do you have any advice on how to navigate this? I don't want to stop her from trying alcohol, but I also don't want her to get addicted if she's anything like me. Perhaps, Rich, you could kick off.

    16. RIRich1:25:23

        I'd love to sit here and give some, like, profound advice, but I'm in a very similar situation myself, to be honest. So Sear, um, has a, has a drink, like, likes, likes beer. Um, and they started... I don't think they had a problem, but they started, from what I saw, having a bit of an unhealthy relationship with, with alcohol or sort of like to do it every, drink every day or m- not loads, but one or two. And we have, have asked or set a boundary, uh, because we're sober, that they don't drink while they're in the house. So they get to do it at the weekends when they go and visit their partner and stuff like that. And we hope that, um, that will be teaching, like, what a healthy relationship with alcohol. The reality is, though, like, I think if we went away for a week, they'd, they'd probably have dr- drink to excess. I don't, I don't know the answer. Like that's, that's the, that's the honest truth. But like, I know that if, in my mind, it's like if you try and tell them not to, it's like a red rag to a bull, isn't it?

    17. APAlex Partridge1:26:34

        Mm.

    18. RIRich1:26:34

        It's like, "Well, that's all I wanna do now." [laughs]

    19. APAlex Partridge1:26:36

        Very difficult situation, isn't it?

    20. RORox1:26:38

        It is, and as parental figures, really just resonate with this person, you are desperate to not have your kid or stepkid go through the same pain you went through. So we really don't want Sear to drink all the time or, or develop a problem, and we've really come up against it. Like, you can't ban a 20-year-old from drinking. You can't. And it never would've worked with us. So we're trying boundaries in the house, which is, for us, like you live with two recovering alcoholics, so don't drink Monday to Thursday. And then they, they do what they want at weekends, and we're, we're trying to guide them and reflect back to them. But I think the place that we've got to is perhaps that level deeper. So there's, like, behavior, and then there's the reason why there's that behavior. Why has Sear really taken to alcohol? Well, obviously, their dad was a big drinker. Is it genetic? Is it watching you do it? Is it a bit of both? We're back in that same argument again. Who knows? But that's how they grew up. That's how they would've seen dealing with problems. They're also neurodivergent, and they suffer with low self-esteem. Who doesn't love a few drinks to take the edge off? I know I did. So we need to work on those two things. So they had a dad that was drinking a lot, and now they don't. So the role modeling is there, and we just have to hope in the way that 20 years later, I'm more like my mum than ever. In 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, the seeds of r- role modeling now is gonna affect Sear. We might just have to be a bit patient. And then the other one is the low self-esteem and the self-hatred. We get to love this kid, which doesn't mean coddling. I've had to learn that. Love this kid, accept this kid, put boundaries for this kid 'cause we care, and reflect back to them how awesome and how capable they are in the hope that they will start to build self-esteem, and there'll be less need for daily alcohol. So I think we have to trust our kids, that they're on their own journeys, and they'll get there. We have to role model as best as we can 'cause they learn from what we do, not what we say, unfortunately. And we have to really love them for who they are. As someone that has a high self-esteem and a good role model is gonna be way less likely to develop an addiction in later life.

    21. APAlex Partridge1:29:31

        Mm. Yeah, no, it's great advice. I think it's generally just a very difficult and a very scary question for a lot of parents who can see addiction in themselves and worrying about whether it's gonna transcend to their kids 'cause you, like you said, you can't say, "You're not allowed to drink." You have to let the child, I guess, go on their journey, perhaps go to really dark places with it to see for themselves where it can take them and to let them understand it themselves 'cause if someone said to me when I was 18, "You're not allowed to drink," you know, [laughs] I would've been off like yourself. [laughs]

    22. RIRich1:30:00

        I think, though, um, where it's probably different for, for us and then potentially you, like, they say that addiction, like, thrives in secret. So, like, the, the environment for, for that person who asked the question and for us is there's no shame about being alcoholics and the addiction, that we're really open. Um, so if they started to develop an unhealth- unhealthy relationship, that they started to realize they'd be in an environment where, actually, it wouldn't be, like, something you'd need to keep or hide or whatever. They would be able to, to openly sort of talk about it. But I think the, this almost sort of, and maybe it was generation above us, that a lot, a lot would drink, a lot would suffer with addiction, but it would be so shame-inducing. Nobody would talk about it. It would just be... It would just sort of happen in the darkness.

    23. RORox1:30:52

        Mm.

    24. RIRich1:30:54

        So I think that will help as well, just the honesty around the environment about their journeys, and we're really open about our sobriety as well.

    25. APAlex Partridge1:31:03

        Yeah. I mean, it's a big topic. Um, I won't go too much there. I know you guys did an episode of, um, They Think It's All Sober, so I think I can probably direct people to there if they wanna... [laughs]

    26. RORox1:31:11

        Have you been on that?

    27. APAlex Partridge1:31:12

        No, no, no.

    28. RORox1:31:13

        I must link you up.

    29. APAlex Partridge1:31:14

        But I listened to it. There's a lot of-

    30. RORox1:31:16

        They're wonderful. Wonderful guys.

22. 1:31:18 – 1:39:06

    Your most impulsive thing

    1. RIRich1:31:18

       Yeah.

    2. APAlex Partridge1:31:18

       I asked you last time what the most impulsive quest- the most impulsive thing you've ever done is, and last time you said- It was a finan-

    3. RORox1:31:26

       Oh, gosh

    4. APAlex Partridge1:31:26

       ... I'm gonna butcher this. It was a- essentially got into a lot of debt. It was a financial impulsive.

    5. RORox1:31:31

       Yep.

    6. APAlex Partridge1:31:31

       So I'm gonna ask the question again. In the last seven months, have you done anything else super impulsive?

    7. RORox1:31:36

       Yeah. So last time it was really rubbish. I'd basically been scammed out of 150 grand, and it carried a lot of shame, and it was actually to do with, uh, the fraud was, um, buying houses. So having just now bought a house, I feel like I've m- maybe brought an end to that story, like I can let it go. So I'm gonna do a good one, um, which was starting our app.

    8. RIRich1:32:03

       Oh, yeah.

    9. RORox1:32:04

       Um, which come out in November, so it's only been a few months, although it feels like forever. And it was the most impulsive [laughs] thing, because we were in a swimming pool, uh, last year one day, and it just... It was like an idea just dropped in my head, "We need to make a body doubling app." In videos that he at that time was sending me, um, little instructional videos for doing housework, 'cause I really struggled, that we need to put these in an app and break down steps for people. We're gonna do that. I can see it. And I could see it. I could see this app, and you know when, when an idea drops, and you're like, "This is gonna be my entire personality, and I won't stop until this is a thing." You were so not on board.

    10. RIRich1:32:51

        No, I wasn't. I was like-

    11. RORox1:32:53

        You didn't-

    12. RIRich1:32:53

        ... "What?"

    13. RORox1:32:53

        ... like it. "What are you doing?"

    14. RIRich1:32:54

        [laughs]

    15. RORox1:32:55

        I was like, "Don't worry, it's, it's only [laughs] gonna cost 100 grand."

    16. RIRich1:32:58

        [laughs]

    17. RORox1:32:58

        We haven't got that. Where are we getting that from? But I was just so obsessed in the most wonderful way, and it was the kind of impulsivity where it's like, "I'm quitting everything else in my life. It's this app that's not even built or tested [laughs] on." But I just, I fell in love with it. I fell in love with the idea of this thing, this little business, and actually an ADHD-er that's in that impulsivity cycle is so productive. So I was researching app companies and apps and making presentations to convince him that this was a good idea, and I think I just, I went on long enough that, um-

    18. RIRich1:33:39

        Broke me

    19. RORox1:33:39

        ... I broke you. I got you-

    20. RIRich1:33:41

        Into submission

    21. RORox1:33:42

        ... into submission. And then the most, I find it the most wonderful thing, where w- we're so often labeled as daydreamers, which we are, but daydreaming is where every single song, book, business idea begins. Begins in somebody's daydream. So daydreaming is the first step to creativity and entrepreneurship, so it should be celebrated, not shamed. So this random thing that dropped in my head as a daydream became a real thing, and it, I almost was like, when it started to become real, we had a whole team, a wonderful team of people building this, this thing for us that we partnered with. I almost felt like what is, is, this is actually happening, like you've let this, this dream become reality, and it was such a wonderful moment. Um, but it's been, it's become a huge part of our lives. We absolutely love it, and it's called Dubbi, and I've just, I think it's one of the best impulsive things I've ever done.

    22. APAlex Partridge1:34:46

        It's fascinating to see, 'cause I remember last time you were on seven months ago, you fleetingly mentioned it, 'cause I think it was all under wraps then.

    23. RORox1:34:51

        [laughs]

    24. APAlex Partridge1:34:52

        Seven months later, in true ADHD fashion, it exists.

    25. RORox1:34:55

        And it's everything.

    26. APAlex Partridge1:34:55

        It's brilliant. [laughs]

    27. RIRich1:34:56

        Yeah.

    28. RORox1:34:56

        And it's my life purpose.

    29. APAlex Partridge1:34:56

        I'll put a link to it in the description. [laughs]

    30. RIRich1:34:58

        It, it will be, it would've been just about to launch last time we were on, and Rox would've been at the stage that now it's a thing, like a little internal defense mechanism was like, "Oh, no, it's probably not gonna do very well. Like, it's probably a mistake. It's all gone wrong." [laughs] Whereas I was the opposite. I started, being like, "This is not, this should stay in the ideas cloud, not in reality." But when it was a thing, I was like, "This is amazing. This is gonna do really well." But we, we switched roles, didn't we? So that's probably why you didn't say much [laughs] about it last time.

Episode duration: 1:39:07