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The Emotional Cost Of Undiagnosed ADHD & How To Reverse It | Dr Lalitaa Suglani (Psychologist)

Dr. Lalitaa Suglani is an award-winning psychologist with a focus on ADHD. This conversation with Dr Lalitaa is sure to change your life and alter everything you know about ADHD. Chapters: 00:00 Trailer 01:14 What is ADHD 03:12 The emotional toll of undiagnosed ADHD 07:26 Dr Lalitaa’s mission 13:00 How to overcome Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria 17:25 How to reverse the affect of masking 19:32 The connection between ‘high functioning ADHD’ and loneliness 23:37 How to stop feeling ‘broken’ 25:46 Tiimo advert 27:28 The emotional cost of feeling misunderstood 29:44 The ADHD ‘love/hate’ theory 32:13 How to overcome ADHD overwhelm 34:37 The link between ADHD and eye movement 37:39 How to spot ADHD in someone 38:34 How to get over the resentment after a late diagnosis 41:19 How therapy can help ADHD 43:31 The ADHD item reveal 45:31 Audience questions 49:16 A letter to my younger self 49:58 Focused survey results FInd Dr. Lalitaa on Instagram 👉 https://www.instagram.com/dr.lalitaa/ Visit Dr. Lalitaa’s website 👉 https://drlalitaa.com Take the Focused survey = £100 prize draw 👉 https://uk.focused.clinic/adhd-workplace-survey/quiz Get 30% off an annual Tiimo subscription 👉 https://www.tiimoapp.com/offers/adhdchatter Pre-order Alex’s latest book about Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria 👉 https://linktr.ee/adhdchatter?utm_source=linktree_profile_share&ltsid=9ffd8709-06df-444c-9936-c136fbd14d6e Buy Alex's book entitled 'Now It All Makes Sense' 👉 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Now-All-Makes-Sense-Diagnosis/dp/1399817817 Producer: Timon Woodward  Recorded by: Hamlin Studios Trailer editor: Ryan Faber DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or qualified healthcare provider. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

Dr. Lalitaa SuglaniguestAlex Partridgehost
Dec 30, 202551mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:14

    Trailer

    1. LS

      A lot of people with ADHD, there is something called ADHD loneliness. You feel very disconnected from people that don't understand you. You can see like a scale of like naught to 10, and there's other people that don't see that scale the way that you see it, and you're trying to say or speak the language of naught to 10, and other people look at you like, "What are you going on about?" It's almost like there's something wrong with you because you can see something that other people can't, so you then end up believing you're the problem.

    2. AP

      Dr Lalitaa Suglani is an award-winning psychologist-

    3. LS

      With a focus on ADHD

    4. AP

      This conversation with Dr Lalitaa is sure to change your life-

    5. LS

      And alter everything you know about ADHD No one's better, no one's worse off than being neurodiverse, being neurotypical. It's understanding the way you show up so you can feel good enough in yourself and you can feel at peace with who you are.

    6. AP

      Do you think there's a point in any ADHD child's journey that they have a realization that they are different?

    7. LS

      I feel like from a young age-

    8. AP

      Dr Lalitaa.

    9. LS

      Hi.

    10. AP

      Thank you so much for joining us.

    11. LS

      A pleasure to be here.

    12. AP

      I'm excited for this conversation. I have interviewed about 200 people now on the topic of ADHD, and if I'm honest, the more I speak about it, the more confused I get sometimes.

    13. LS

      Mm.

    14. AP

      But I feel like this conversation chatting to you, we're finally gonna get to the bottom of it. So

  2. 1:14 – 3:12

    What is ADHD

    1. AP

      firstly, what is ADHD in your opinion? And how-

    2. LS

      Yeah

    3. AP

      ... do you see it showing up in people's lives?

    4. LS

      Mm. So as a psychologist, I have worked with lots of different people who have been diagnosed with ADHD, but also people that haven't been diagnosed and they're on the verge of it or they, they don't realize that they may have ADHD. So for me, ADHD shows up in lots of different ways, and we have to be mindful of what we might see in the DSM of what ADHD is, but also understand how we have learnt to deal with ADHD if we've not known we've had it. And what I mean by that is that if we have had, um, uh, or we've developed coping strategies like people-pleasing, perfectionism, um, making sure that everyone else around us is, is regulated so we feel regulated, we have to look at the masking behaviors as well. We can't just look at, okay, someone that is, um, is not fidgety or someone who isn't sitting on their, like, hands all the time. They may not... The, the, just because they're not doing that doesn't mean that they don't have ADHD. So for me, it's really important as a psychologist to look at all aspects of someone's life, so looking at their early childhood, um, experiences, understanding that. And a lot of the work that I do is around the inner child and understanding learnt behaviors and patterns that we keep presenting with. But also in adulthood, often I find, um, a lot of individuals that come in, uh, that want to get support, they're exhausted, they're burnt out, they're tired, um, they feel very disconnected and very lonely, and that's because they don't realize that they might be, um, or, or how their ADHD shows up in their life. So the ways that ADHD might show up might be that they notice things. They're very sensitive to other people, so they notice if someone's not okay, and they go in being very over responsible, um, very high functioning in a way that they notice, um, if someone's not okay, what do I need to do to fix this? Because that helps them to feel regulated, and that comes from an early experience that they have learnt from maybe their parents who have never noticed their ADHD symptoms, and that then continues as patterns in their life.

  3. 3:12 – 7:26

    The emotional toll of undiagnosed ADHD

    1. AP

      What do you see as the long-term emotional consequences, the toll someone pays for not realizing that they have ADHD at an, at an early age?

    2. LS

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    3. AP

      And perhaps they've gone for years and years and years masking, like you said, people-pleasing, being a perfectionist, but they don't really realize that they're doing it.

    4. LS

      Mm.

    5. AP

      What is the emotional toll that takes on someone?

    6. LS

      I feel like people go through a, um, experience of grief where they feel anger, they feel rage, they're in denial, they're confused by it. They might be trying to bargain. They're trying to reach that place of acceptance, of this has happened. But there's a... Initially what I notice is there's a lot of anger, that why didn't anyone pick this up in me? And it's because we have this version of us that we show up, and we're so good at masking, people can't see beyond that. So people see that you've got it together, you're okay. A bit like the swan analogy. They see the, the gracefulness of the swan above the water, but underneath you're paddling, you're overthinking, you're ruminating, you're thinking about everyone else, what they might be thinking. No one sees that side. So everyone just sees that you're, you're okay, you're fine, you've got it together. So you often take on the roles of being the fixer, being the caregiver, being the one who's there for everyone else, and that can often feel very exhausting, especially if you're feeling that you can't trust someone else with your emotions because perhaps they don't know how to hold it. So you end up just pushing your own emotions to one side and making it about everyone else because you know that you will be okay holding space for other people, but you don't trust that other people can hold space for you. And that's where you can then feel very disconnected because people don't see the full version of the swan. They just see the top bit, that you've, you're fine, you're okay, but you might be going home every day crying yourself to sleep. You might be going home having suicidal thoughts. You might be going home feeling very like no one really sees me. So it's a very, very big concern that what goes on behind the scenes that people don't see and how that can manifest as well because you, you could just become more and more disconnected from yourself.

    7. AP

      You said it's exhausting. Like-

    8. LS

      Yeah

    9. AP

      ... masking is totally exhausting. How extreme can that get? How much of a contrast between the version someone's putting out into the world-

    10. LS

      Yeah

    11. AP

      ... like you said, the, the swan on the lake, people see the beauty, the magnificence. How big of a contrast can that be between the version that's the world sees versus the version that they are-

    12. LS

      Mm

    13. AP

      ... when they get home after a long day?

    14. LS

      I wonder if they actually, if someone who is undiagnosed or someone who doesn't truly understand their ADHD, do they truly know who they are? Because they're so focused on everyone else and I need to be there in this certain way, have they really ventured into who they are? And often in the therapy space, that's the work that I do, is people will come in and they know that they're different. They know that they don't really fit in, but they don't understand why. So when they start understanding the ADHD symptoms, they're like, "This is why I am the way that I am," and they realize they're different. They've always known that. They've always had this feeling, but they've always personalized it, feeling that, "I need to fit in, I need to fit in, I need to fit in," rather than thinking, "Actually, how do I just allow myself to be, and this is who I am?"And that takes courage, it takes vulnerability, it takes you really understanding yourself, and also not caring what people think. But if you're hypervigilant and you notice everyone's change in tone, you notice their facial expressions changing, you notice simple things just, like, changing in someone and that they're not, they're not fully themselves today, and you're smiling when I say that, so you must resonate with that. So you notice just these little shifts. Um, you know, "Okay, have I done something?" And then you go into that, "I'm dysregulated now." Your nervous system has learned, "I need to fix this," and in order to fix it, you need to make sure that they're okay. So it's never then about you. So it's only when you go home after a long day, you might be around people, um, all day, and then it's like, "I just need that moment where I'm just disconnected from everyone." And even if there's people in the home, you may still not feel like you can disconnect. You need that silence and that, um, time away from everyone. Then you can feel like, "Okay, I need to re-energize myself again." But no one sees that.

    15. AP

      No one sees those transitional periods.

    16. LS

      Yeah

    17. AP

      Like, you might need to sit in the car for 15 minutes after you arrive at a social event, or you get home from the supermarket. You just need that transitional time before event A and event B.

    18. LS

      Yeah.

    19. AP

      Like, for me, from my perspective, you a- appear to be incredibly passionate about this topic. You're saying things that I feel like you know me [laughs] .

  4. 7:26 – 13:00

    Dr Lalitaa’s mission

    1. AP

      Um, where does it come from? Where... Your passion, what's your-

    2. LS

      Mm

    3. AP

      ... mission within the world of ADHD?

    4. LS

      So for me, I feel like, um, someone who is ADHD diagnosed, um, and I also have a diagnosis of autism, for me, it's really important that people understand it's not just having a label. That's not what we're trying to do. It's trying to understand, how does a label show up in your life, and how does it influence and impact on your life? Because there's so many of us going round in life believing we're not good enough, that we're broken, that there's something wrong with you, and that limits, like, it really limits you. It stops you from reaching a version of you where you're able to shine the way that you're meant to, because we're so focused on how we feel like we should be. So for me, it's giving people the knowledge and the wisdom to help them realize that they are enough as they are and not feeling that they're not good enough just because-

    5. AP

      Mm

    6. LS

      ... they don't understand themselves.

    7. AP

      Do you think there's a point in any ADHD child's journey that they have a realization that they are different, or do you think it's a gradual process?

    8. LS

      I feel like from a young age, you do notice that you're different, but you find ways of coping because ultimately, if we look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, we want safety, we want security. So if you know you're different, and what I mean by different, it might be that you have big emotions, and as a child, you share these big emotions, and then you're told by caregivers or other people, "Just stop being too much," or, "Stop crying," or, "You'll, you'll... I'll give you something to cry about." Whatever it might be, because of whatever parents or caregivers have gone through. You then carry these messages. Now, imagine having the rejection sensitivity sitting on your shoulder as well. So you have that sitting on your shoulder, and when someone says something like that, it's almost like, " [gasps] Oh my God, they think I'm bad, they think I'm this." So you carry shame, you carry guilt. So you don't wanna feel these emotions because feeling these emotions are so big, so powerful, so you will find ways of avoiding that. So to avoid it, it's like, "Okay, if I'm feeling or showing this emotion, this person doesn't get it. They, they, they think I'm too much, so stop showing this emotion." So we start suppressing ourselves, showing up thinking, "Okay, I, I now need to be, like, blue," for example, because that's what will be accepted in the world. So we disconnect from what truly is our em- or our emotions that we're feeling into what we feel we should be giving in order to get love, acceptance, safety, security, so people then don't tell us that we're not good enough, because that's what we're trying to avoid.

    9. AP

      Do you think ADHD therefore is more of a, rather than a deficit of attention, despite what the name says, i- is it more a deficit of self-awareness?

    10. LS

      Mm.

    11. AP

      Because it sounds like so many of us abandon our true self at such a young age. We mask up, we're chameleons, we pretend to be someone that we're not, and that might feel soothing in the short term because it protects us from that horrible pain of being criticized, but I guess the long-term consequences are we lose touch of who we really are.

    12. LS

      Yeah.

    13. AP

      And it's very difficult to say yes to opportunities that come our way, whether that be a new job, a new relationship, a new hobby-

    14. LS

      Mm

    15. AP

      ... if we don't really know what we're interested in.

    16. LS

      Yeah. Yeah.

    17. AP

      So we can impulsively start these things, and we get very excited in the short term, but then the honeymoon period passes, and we quickly find out that it's not a good fit for who we really are-

    18. LS

      Mm

    19. AP

      ... because we didn't know who we are.

    20. LS

      Yeah.

    21. AP

      And we quit, we abandon, we leave that relationship, and the long-term consequences of this cycle of starting and stopping, starting and abandoning, that has quite devastating consequences, do you think-

    22. LS

      Yeah

    23. AP

      ... for one's self-esteem?

    24. LS

      I think it's really important to understand, like you've mentioned about self-awareness, self-awareness goes very deep because it's not just about self-awareness of how we're showing up day to day, it's also self-awareness of how ADHD shows up. And for me, the number of clients I've worked with, everyone's ADHD shows up in a different way. So sometimes we're looking online and it's like, "Oh, I don't really resonate with that," or, "I resonate with this, and I resonate with that." And you might see things, and some things don't make sense, some things really do make sense, and everyone's ADHD is very different. So for me, it's about the self-awareness of how your brain works, but it's also the self-awareness of what you've been through. So how have you experienced the world around you, others around you, your own version of yourself, um, growing up through the messages that you received from other people, how has that shown up? But then also as you've continued through life, like, how are you learning about your own self as well? So for me, it's a, the, there's lots of different layers of self-awareness. Um, when we understand what self-awareness is and how we show up, we can then understand, okay, let me pause in this space. Let me understand why is it that I'm showing up... W- we're showing up with curiosity, with awareness of my brain's doing this because I know that I'm... Right now it's a shiny object, and this is, like, so exciting, and I know that my dopamine's like, "Oh, this is, this is really exciting. Let's do this. Let's do this." But then two days later, you're just like, "Oh, I'm bored now," and you're not stimulated anymore. It becomes more like an admin task. You don't wanna do it, and it's like, okay, if you can learn to understand this is the way that your brain shows up, then you can then say, "Right, is this really a shiny object, um, that I'm, I'm messing with right now, or is this something I really wanna do?" So it's pausing and sitting with the intention and not getting lost in the, um, the dopamine hit, because that's what we're trying to chase, and anything, like, boring or that isn't stimulating us, we then feel like it becomes such a big task. We end up procrastinating, we end up, uh, perfectionism. It's fighting our people-pleasing, and then it's only until we get to the last minute we know hyperfocus comes in and-

    25. AP

      Mm

    26. LS

      ... saves us and protects us.

    27. AP

      Yeah [laughs] .I mean, we can avoid totally sometimes, 'cause there's no risk of criticism or rejection if we just don't do the thing, which is devastating, because, uh, so much potential often is, is just wasted-

    28. LS

      Yeah

    29. AP

      ... because we, we don't want to put ourselves out there and risk being criticized by the world, so it's easier just to stay in our safe place.

  5. 13:00 – 17:25

    How to overcome Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria

    1. AP

      Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, RSD, I feel like it's such a vice-like grip on so many people's lives with ADHD. Where, where do you think it comes from? Is it, is it from early years-

    2. LS

      Mm

    3. AP

      ... exposures to more criticisms?

    4. LS

      I feel like it's a, it's a feeling of having these big emotions such as shame, such as guilt, that feel so big we don't know how to regulate that, these emotions. So as a result, you end up developing this rejection sensitivity, and I th- it's like it sits on your shoulder, and it's constantly looking at the world around you. You could be going into a coffee shop and someone looks at you in a certain way after you've said, "Morning, can I get this?" And they just look at you, and instantly you've now perceived that as, "They hate me. They don't like me. Um, I just need to know, not do this now, and then I, I need to be like this." And you get so lost in your own head in that conversation that you might be having that you're actually not present in the moment, because now you're perceiving the way that this person has reacted to your own... It's like wearing sunglasses, and they're tinted sunglasses, and, um, imagine they're like blue-tinted sunglasses. Everything you're seeing now is blue in the world, and that's like you're seeing everything in a way where the world is rejecting you. That rejection makes you feel like, "I'm not good enough. I'm not wo- I'm not worthy," and you have guilt, you have shame. You, you carry these big emotions, so your brain's gonna do anything to avoid that. So there might be an opportunity that comes up in the workplace, and you might think, "Okay, there's three different people now are gonna get nominated. They have to go through an interview process to get to that next, to, to, to, um, a, to the next, another job." And you don't go. You don't go because you're like, "I don't wanna go," just in case they don't choose you, and you might have an anticipation of a future, um, feeling of not feeling good enough because they don't choose you. So now you're gonna stay in a safe space because it's easier to stay here than to go into that space, which is really sad, because you might be doing that in that one, um, opportunity, but where else are you doing that? Are you doing that in relationships? Are you doing that with friends? Are you doing that with, um, other situations in, in, in your life? And that's where I feel like it's really sad. You're not focused on, "Hang on, let me just take this opportunity, and even if I don't get the job, it doesn't mean that I'm not good enough." And that's where the regulation work comes in, and really understanding, um, just because I didn't get it doesn't mean that I'm not worthy and I'm not good enough.

    5. AP

      If there's this big contrast between someone's inner child, the real version of themselves, and the version that they're putting out into the world, the masked version, that masked version is the one that's getting all of the praise, all of the attention, but if it's not connecting to their inner child, their true selves-

    6. LS

      Mm

    7. AP

      ... can that cause loneliness?

    8. LS

      When we say true self, what, what happened as a child? So as your inner child, you would've learned that you're not good enough, so what you would've learned to do is suppress that part of you. And then what you would've learned to do as a result of that is like, "This part of me is not being accepted, so I need to put this to one side and learn to be a certain way," and that's where the masking comes in. So the masking is, "I have to be this way for people to accept me." So what's the real version of you? Because can we not use the masking version and the inner child, connecting the two to allow you to become the adult that you are? And that's the work that I do with clients, is learning to understand these are the reasons or the, the, or how I mask, why I'm masking. Um, and often the reason why we're masking is because we want acceptance, we want belonging, we want a sense of connection with others. So if I know that, okay, this person likes me to be this way, or I need to be, um, adding loads of humor with this person, or this person likes it when I ask them how they are, I will con- continue to do that-

    9. AP

      Mm

    10. LS

      ... because they are now not going to reject me. But if I notice that I might say something about me and I'm not getting the, the feedback that I'm looking for, I learn, "Don't talk about me. Ignore me. Make it about them." So I do feel you can feel, a lot of people with ADHD, there is something called ADHD loneliness, where you feel very disconnected from people that don't understand you. Because it's almost like you can see, um, like a scale of like naught to 10, and there's other people that doesn't, that don't see that scale the way that you see it, and you're trying to say or speak the language of naught to 10, and other people look at you like, "What are you going on about? I don't see that." So it, it can feel very disconnected, um, and it's almost like there's something wrong with you, because you can see something that other people can't, so you then end up believing you're the problem, until you meet other people that have ADHD and you're like, "They get it. They understand."

    11. AP

      Yeah. [laughs]

    12. LS

      "They see it the way that I do." Um, but it's almost like speaking a very different language.

  6. 17:25 – 19:32

    How to reverse the affect of masking

    1. AP

      How can you bring that, those two versions of yourself closer together? How can you bridge that gap between the masked version of you and your inner child?

    2. LS

      Yeah, yeah. I feel it's about going back to your inner child and understanding why is it that you learned to suppress and ignore that part. So was it because caregivers, people around you, family, friends, teachers, they didn't understand? So instead of giving you, um, feedback to support you, um, and help you, instead, like I know many people that, um, have a diagnosis of ADHD, they will often say that, "My teacher said I have a lot more potential, but I just don't, um, show up in the way that I should," not realizing that they had ADHD and they were really struggling too. So often it's about going back to that version of you and understanding why is it that you learned to mask in the way that you did, and why did you learn to suppress that part? Who was it around you or what were the messages around you that showed you that you had to put this part to one side and show up being that people pleaser, perfectionist, being high-functioning, being someone who's there for everyone else, and you learned to abandon yourself ultimately? Because the part of growth in ADHD and learning more about yourself is not to abandon your needs, and although you might feel like you might be a burden to others or you might be too much for others, it's not about you, it's about sometimes that person might feel like it's too much for them.It's not that you're too much, and that's where you're trying to disconnect, and learning to show up in a very different way, is creating boundaries and supporting yourself, and not abandoning, thinking, "That person's just looked at me like that. I have to behave this way now to make sure that they accept me."

    3. AP

      You mentioned high-functioning there, and I feel like another way of phrasing that is high masking.

    4. LS

      Yeah.

    5. AP

      You're so good at masking. You're such an expert. You put such a good version out into the world of yourself that you, you achieve amazing things.

    6. LS

      Yeah.

    7. AP

      But I guess it's the cost that, of, of achieving those things that other people don't see. G- going back to that amazing swan analogy you used of the high functioning is the beauty, the gracefulness, the achievements, the success. But it's that frantically flapping the feet below the water, desperately trying to stay above the surface.

    8. LS

      Yeah.

    9. AP

      Like,

  7. 19:32 – 23:37

    The connection between ‘high functioning ADHD’ and loneliness

    1. AP

      can h- someone be so high functioning, there's such a gap between their masked version of themselves and their inner child, can that create a unique version of loneliness?

    2. LS

      Yeah, so if we think of high functioning, by the way, I love the term high masking. I think it's brilliant because there's so many of us that will mask, um, and not even realize that we're masking, um, because they, they haven't got to that point of burnout for them to really just stop and realize what is going on. Um, but there's this idea of, like, being high functioning. What is that about? Being high functioning means that you're, a, a, essentially, you're avoiding yourself, so you're trying to be there for everyone else, trying to be like, "Go, go, go," but you're disconnected from yourself, and you don't wanna meet parts of you that you've suppressed away. So these parts might be shame. They might be guilt. They might be you feeling like you're too much, and that's where you meet your inner child and the work that you do to really help you align yourself. But people won't do that until they get to a point of burnout, stress, um, chronic anxiety, chronic shame, and then they know they need to do something because they can't keep continuing in this way. Um, and they do feel isolated. They do feel lonely. They feel very disconnected because it's a battle with self. It's not a battle with the world around them. It's a battle with me versus me, where you're so focused on avoiding yourself, until you get to bed, and then your brain's like, "Why did that person look at me like that?" Or, "Why did this happen, and why did that happen? And, and this person did this, and they said that. Why did they say that?" And your brain then has, finally has a space to think about things. Then that how, um, that stops you from sleeping because your brain's just ruminating. You wake up, you're exhausted, you're tired, and then the, the same cycle continues.

    3. AP

      I mean, it's a devastating experience you're describing.

    4. LS

      Yeah.

    5. AP

      And how bad can that get? Can that lead to depression?

    6. LS

      Yeah. It can lead to anxiety, so next time you're with someone, it can lead to, um, shame anxiety, the way that I explain it, which is you're in a situation where you might be at a networking event, and then you come home in the evening, and you're just beating yourself up because it's like, "Why did you say that? Why did you look at that person in that way? Why did you do th-," and you're just, like, criticizing yourself to the point where you're beating yourself up, and you just feel so horrible. You feel so full of shame. You feel like, "I, I don't ever wanna see anyone ever again." Um, and that's where you can then end up having suicidal thoughts. You can end up feeling like, "I don't wanna be around people because I feel very low in myself." But then you then wake up the next day, you put the mask back on, you smile, and you continue, but then that just keeps creating that cycle. But underneath all of that is, if we look back to the analogy of the, the swan, is the flapping. The flapping that's going on, no one sees that, so no one knows that you've gone home, you're disconnected, you're feeling very low, you're feeling down, you're not looking after yourself. You might not be eating properly. Um, you might be finding other ways to help you regulate, and that can all have a detriment to your mental health and your wellbeing.

    7. AP

      The experience you're describing, I mean, it is really tragic, and I feel like it is the common experience of ADHD.

    8. LS

      Yeah.

    9. AP

      And it's why I would always push back against some people that would label ADHD as being a superpower 'cause I feel like it's really not, you know? It's, it c- it's a real struggle when you don't understand it.

    10. LS

      Yeah.

    11. AP

      You, you're living your life not understanding that you are different, why certain things are very challenging for you.

    12. LS

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    13. AP

      When I put out a survey to the community, the word that kept on coming back, I asked, "How do you feel about your ADHD?" And the word that kept on coming back was broken. I feel broken. Why do you think-

    14. LS

      That's really sad. Really sad. Broken as a way of them just expressing how they feel about themselves, and what does broken mean? Like, if you think of a plate, and it's just shattered into, like, a million pieces because it's broken, that's broken. But people are, with ADHD, they're not broken. They just don't understand themselves.

    15. AP

      Well, the world's calibrated to accommodate for neurotypicals.

    16. LS

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

    17. AP

      And there's tremendous strengths with having ADHD, but when you don't understand that you're living in a neurotypical world and every... You're swimming against the tide.

    18. LS

      Yeah.

    19. AP

      It's no wonder that so many of us do feel broken. That's the devastating reality.

  8. 23:37 – 25:46

    How to stop feeling ‘broken’

    1. LS

      Mm-hmm.

    2. AP

      Do you think there's a solid, concrete reason why people with ADHD feel broken?

    3. LS

      I feel like it's very often, and a personal experience of mine as well, feeling very misunderstood.

    4. AP

      Mm.

    5. LS

      So you can feel very misunderstood because you feel like people just don't get you, and it could be a simple thing. Like, I remember once trying to get out of this car park, and it said exit, right? So I followed the arrow, and I was like, "Okay, the exit's not here." And then I'm trying to follow the next arrow, and I'm like, "The exit's not here." Then my car park ticket ran out because I couldn't find, like, it was, it'd been 10 minutes. And then, um, my friends that had gone out already, they're like, "Why are you not out?" And I'm like, "Because I can't find the exit." They're like, "Are you thick? Like, what? Follow the signs." I'm like, "I'm following all the signs."

    6. AP

      [laughs]

    7. LS

      And in my head I'm like, "This is, the thing is, I'm following all the signs, but the signs that I'm following, they're not taking me..." Like, in my head, it makes sense to take the right here, but someone else is-In their head, it's like, "Why would you take the right here? It's saying go straight and take a right." I'm like, "But it's not saying that to me."

    8. AP

      [laughs]

    9. LS

      So I feel like there is, um, this idea of people, we're seeing things in a very different way, um, and the world around us, like, a- again, it could be you go to the train station and it says right platform this. You're going there, but then it change, and you're like, "But why has it changed?" And it's confusing in your mind because you're just like, "I don't understand why it's changing." And other people, for them, it's like it's so simple. It's like, "It's just a change. Chill out." And you're like, "But it's not just a change." So you're trying to manage all of these different changes, all of these different things that are happening in your mind to try and help and support you, but for other people it can be just so simple. So you go in life believing there's something wrong with you. Um, and if I, like, look back on my own life and I, and I understand, like, clients that I've worked with as well, this idea of feeling very misunderstood in the world around you because people might say things, and then you've taken it literally or you've just understood it in a very different way, and you're just like, "Okay." And you're trying to hide the fact that you're, you've seen it in a different way because you don't want shame to come out. You don't want them to then judge you or perceive judgment, um, because then if they judge you, they might then think that you're not worthy or you're not good enough, so you'll avoid that, and this is where the masking comes in. And there's so many layers that happen, and no one, again, sees all these different layers. They're just like, "It's just a simple change in platform." But for you it's not just that. There's so many layers to, "No, but then this and then this, and why did they do this and this?" And it's just so

  9. 25:46 – 27:28

    Tiimo advert

    1. LS

      overwhelming.

    2. AP

      A quick word from our sponsor. We've all had that nightmare. You're on that final warning from that friend. If you miss their birthday again, your friendship is over. Finito. And you do miss it. Even worse, you miss their wedding, and you were giving the speech, the speech you forgot to write. "I can change," you plead with them, and they say, "No, you can't." Well, actually, you can. How? Tiimo app, that's how. Tiimo app has organized me in a way that's made me unrecognizable to my nearest and dearest. What ADHD? Tiimo's ultimate planning partner checking in on you to see what you need help with and what chores you need to accomplish day to day. The important difference is Tiimo is designed by neurodivergent brains for neurodivergent brains, and you can tell. It's built to adapt to your neurodivergent way of thinking and be flexible to your way of planning, and now it's even more simple with the AI planning assistant. Tiimo offers an incredible new voice transcribing service, making it even easier to use. It's almost so simple that it feels like a cheat code to play life on easy mode. Give it a go, and use the link in my bio for 30% off. Just a note, though, this code is only applicable on the web browser, not on the smartphone. Back to the show. I feel like it's a, a, such a key principle for humans to feel understood.

    3. LS

      Yeah.

    4. AP

      It's so soothing. And for, for many people with ADHD, like you've just said, we, we do feel misunderstood. And a whole generation now, luckily, have got resources to go to, podcasts, books-

    5. LS

      Mm

    6. AP

      ... the internet, where they can find answers and go some way to finding understanding. But the generations that have gone-

    7. LS

      Mm

    8. AP

      ... like, millions of people have went their entire life with no answers, never getting that understanding.

  10. 27:28 – 29:44

    The emotional cost of feeling misunderstood

    1. AP

      What is the potential consequence of someone going their whole life, perhaps-

    2. LS

      Yeah

    3. AP

      ... with never getting that final piece of the jigsaw, never finding that understanding to their struggles?

    4. LS

      Mm-hmm. It's interesting you say that because there's people that have been diagnosed with ADHD, but they will double-check. They're like, "I, I feel like the psychiatrist misdiagnosed me." And I'm like, "What makes you feel like that?" And they're like, "Because I don't have ADHD." And it can take several sessions to really work with someone to help them realize that they do have ADHD or how their ADHD is showing up because they, they just don't believe it. They, they are fully, um, in denial of having ADHD, and they feel like there's just something wrong with them because that's what they've always believed. And there's this idea of like, "I can't let go of that and believe that this is what's going on for me because if I do that, what if this isn't true?" Um, and that, that, that's what I find with a lot of people, um, that are di- late diagnosed with ADHD. But going back to the question that you originally asked, which is how is it that people are affected with being late, late, late diagnosed, is that they will go through their life believing that they know that something different. They just don't quite understand what, and they have created a life around what they feel they should be or how they should be, not understanding that there's, there is this idea of this is how ADHD is showing up. And it's only when you get to that space and you start to realize how ADHD is showing up in your life, you're like, "This makes so much sense." Like, it all makes sense, and you can finally, like, close the loops that you've had opened that you know that there's been something different in your life. And there is a disconnect because you're trying to talk to people, but do people really truly see you? And people that are, um, neurotypical, they might understand, like, they might try and ask the question, "What do you mean see you?" And people with, um, neuro or who are neurodiverse, they will say like, "There's so many layers. It's not just a simple one to two. It's 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, until you get to that, um, uh, the 2.0." But for some other people that are maybe neurotypical, they, they see it as one to two, and that, that's the way that it is. So I feel like you have to really understand the way your brain works and understand that there's no, no one's better, no one's worse off than, um, than, than being neurodiverse, being neurotypical. It's understanding the way you show up so you can feel good enough in yourself and you can feel at peace with who you are.

  11. 29:44 – 32:13

    The ADHD ‘love/hate’ theory

    1. AP

      Do you think having ADHD for many people can be quite a polarizing experience? Can people have a love/hate relationship with it? Like, on the one hand, on one day you could be feeling very hyper-focused and creative, and you could start a project, and you could be having a great time with it, and then the next day you could forget yet another reusable shopping bag or find yourself trapped inside a car park because you can't find the exit. Can people have a love/hate relationship with ADHD?

    2. LS

      Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Definitely. So I, I, I see this a lot where people will say, again, using it as the analogy of this is a superpower. I can... If I'm hyper-focused, I can do X, Y, and Z, and I can get all these things done. I can set up a business. I can then, um, uh, create a website. I can then create an Insta. I can do all of these different things. But then we also have to look at the other side because once you've hit hyper-focus, you might have, like, um, even y- you're thirsty and the water's there, but your executive functioning is, like, kicking off, and it's like, "I know I need to drink water," but you won't pick up the water because you're so focused on, "Nope, I can't. I can't get distracted. I need to just con- keep continuing." Um, but then comes the exhaustion, then comes the, um, part where you might be feeling low within yourself because you've, you've given so much energy to this, and that's why when you understand the way that your brain works and being hyper-focused and you know that this is the way that I know that if I have had this, um, space where I have been hyper-focused, I now may need some downtime, or so I may need some time staring at a wall just, like, being disconnected from, from everyone else. That's important. So I feel like there is, um, the part of people having this love/hate relationship because sometimes it can be great-

    3. AP

      Mm

    4. LS

      ... and sometimes it can't. But I also feel the more you understand it, the more you can navigate it, and it's not ADHD sitting in your driving seat and driving you through life. It's almost like it's a passenger and you're the driver, and you're using it as and when, and you know and understand how it shows up, so you can then tap into it when you need it and not just feel like it's taking you through life, and you're being impulsive, and you're making decisions, and you're being... having these big emotional reactions. It's like, "Nope, I know what's going on here." So you're using foundations to try and support you, uh, but you're tapping in as and when you need it.

    5. AP

      I feel like we can, we can do amazing things. Hyper-focus can kick in. We can be very productive in bursts, but then something small could happen, like a text message-

    6. LS

      Yeah

    7. AP

      ... could come in, and then suddenly the overwhelm creeps in because you're suddenly thinking, "Right, that's now something I've got to do." And that could be quite a combative text message.

    8. LS

      Mm.

    9. AP

      It could be something you need to think about a lot, and it can really pull you away from your main hyper-focus.

    10. LS

      Yeah.

  12. 32:13 – 34:37

    How to overcome ADHD overwhelm

    1. AP

      Overwhelm is quite complicated. How do you see it turning up? How do you see it looking like in people with ADHD?

    2. LS

      Well, the way that I would give it an, um, analogy is a bit like a cup and, and water. So we just keep adding water into it, and it's like, okay, I need to get this done. And you know, it could be a 10-minute, like, um, message that you need to send someone, an email that you need to respond back to, but your brain's just like, "It's too big. I don't wanna deal with it, and the deadline's, like, next week. I don't need to deal with it." So that goes into your cup. Then there's something else which is, like, someone's, um, sent you a text message, and you're like, "Okay, I know I need to get back to that." Again, that goes into your cup. Then something else happens, and it's like, "Okay, I know I need to get back to that. Then I need to order this. Then I need to go to the post office and return this, and then I need to do this." And before you know it, this cup is like, it's about to overflow. And it could be a simple thing that someone just says, "Hey, how are you? Um, haven't heard from you. When are we gonna meet?" And you're just like, "Oh, my God," and you just feel so overwhelmed, and it feels like the cup's just overflowing. But it's because all of these things have built up, built up, built up, and we haven't been able to do them because they feel so big, and that's why I always say to people, break down the things that you're doing, but also give yourself, like, in the day, know that these are gonna be the boring admin things, like going to the post office, waiting in a queue, having to find your QR code, having to, like, go and speak to someone. And, and, um, even just that for someone else it might be you're just going to the post office to return things. It's not. You have to print out the label. You have to find out is the label Royal Mail, or is it, um, part of somewhere else? And is it the right post office I'm going to? So there's so many, like, layers in that, so it's not just going to the post office. So sometimes it's about breaking that down further.

    3. AP

      Mm.

    4. LS

      So if you've got a presentation you need to do, it's not just the presentation that you have to do. You have to break it down to be able to understand it's not just a presentation. What's the presentation about? What's the intention of it? What's this? And you break it down to help yourself rather than thinking, "I need to get to this, the top of the mountain." It's like, let's just take one stage, one stage, one stage, one stage. Break it down to help yourself make sense of it because with an ADHD brain, you having one task like that is just too much. So you have to break it down to help yourself to make sense of what you need to do.

    5. AP

      Such a big fan of that, yeah. Breaking big tasks into, from icebergs into ice cubes.

    6. LS

      Yeah.

    7. AP

      Um, sometimes sending an email can be really daunting, but if you just break it down into-

    8. LS

      Mm

    9. AP

      ... okay, tasks. What? Number one, turn on the laptop.

    10. LS

      Yeah, yeah.

    11. AP

      Task number two, open the email browser. Slowly, task by task-

    12. LS

      Mm

    13. AP

      ... then hopefully you get over the overwhelm and the momentum goes. This is really interesting, and, and

  13. 34:37 – 37:39

    The link between ADHD and eye movement

    1. AP

      you specialize in eye movement-

    2. LS

      Mm

    3. AP

      ... as well. Do you, you... Do you think you can tell if someone's got ADHD by their eye movement?

    4. LS

      So with, um, so it's something called EMDR, and EMDR is a way of supporting people that have been through trauma. And for me, it's not just noticing someone because you might be sat in front of me, and I might notice something, but for me, it's also about going back into background history, going back into understanding more about the person, what they've experienced, what they've been through. Because I feel like you can't just look at someone and know what someone might be going through because there might be a, a reason why someone's looking in a certain way or someone's, um, eyes are moving in a certain way. So you have to really try to understand the person before making a judgment or a conclusion of what this person might be going through and why they're going through what or how they're presenting.

    5. AP

      For me, [laughs] 'cause I've noticed this a lot, I certainly do it. When I'm speaking, my eye contact is very poor.

    6. LS

      Yeah.

    7. AP

      Not very good. I'm, my eyes are all over the place. But when I'm being spoken to, my eye contact is, like, laser sharp. It's unbroken. Probably because I feel like that's the polite thing to do, and it's rude if I don't. But when it's my turn to speak-My eye contact is very broken.

    8. LS

      Yeah

    9. AP

      Um-

    10. LS

      Well, I feel like I'm like that. I feel like it's you getting in your creative space because you're thinking about something, and you're trying to make sense of it, and you're, like, imagining, thinking, and, and talking about it. But then when you're listening to someone, you're really engaging because if you're looking again at something else or looking over there, you'll get distracted. So you know that-

    11. AP

      Yeah [laughs]

    12. LS

      ... you need to be, like, laser focused and, like, have this awareness, um, because even, like, clients will come in, and they have their smart watches on. I'm like, "You need to take your watch off. We're not having your watch here," because every now and again, they'll keep watching, and then their brain's gone into the message that someone's just sent, and then they've lost the connection here. So I feel like with ADHD, it's a very similar thing, is you, you don't wanna get lost in the distractions of life because there's distractions everywhere.

    13. AP

      Yeah.

    14. LS

      And it's like, how do I just stay focused? But also, you know how important space is and how, um, holding a safe space for someone is important because of what things that you've witnessed and things that you've experienced.

    15. AP

      Someone said to me, to maintain eye contact, I should focus on one eye, say the right one, and then move to the left, then go to the forehead and then repeat, so make like a triangle. But then I just thought, "Why am I making a triangle-

    16. LS

      [laughs]

    17. AP

      ... around your face? I must look really weird."

    18. LS

      But to be fair, do you notice it? I, 'cause I, I don't no- Are you doing that here now?

    19. AP

      No, I've stopped it now.

    20. LS

      No? Okay. [laughs]

    21. AP

      'Cause I thought that it was really noticeable. My eyes just went around in a triangle.

    22. LS

      But also then, how present are you? Because you're so focused on, um, trying to be aware of, like, "I need to be doing this," and I think that's a thing as well sometimes where we get messages from other people, "Behave like this, and do this, and you should be doing this," but if it doesn't align with you, and it doesn't feel right for you, then don't do it. Like, follow what is true for you, not what, like, people are expecting you to do. And I, I love the fact that you're just like, "Yeah, I used to do it, but I gave it a go, and it just didn't align with me. Um, and now I just, I'm just me."

    23. AP

      Well, yeah, it was my turn to speak, and I realized I hadn't remembered anything they had said because I was too focused on doing the triangle. Like, apart from eye contact, um,

  14. 37:39 – 38:34

    How to spot ADHD in someone

    1. AP

      are there any key giveaways, do you think, from your experience of somebody has ADHD, the way they look, the way they speak?

    2. LS

      I feel like it's more through experience. You just gauge. You just have a natural awareness of people that are neurodiverse because you, you just get it, and they get you in the way that they might be talking, the way they might be acting. Again, simple things might be around their time management, their, the way of like, um, like for example, I had a podcast earlier today, and she messaged me a couple of times like, "Oh, um, just to, uh, make sure, are you here?" And I'm like, "Okay, so there's something around trust here that might be going on, or there's something with this." Um, and then when we got s- um, speaking with one another, um, yeah, there was a, there was a label of, like, ADHD, and I was like, "Ah, okay, this makes sense now-

    3. AP

      [laughs]

    4. LS

      ... because of this, this, this." So I just feel like you can't go around diagnosing people based on their certain behaviors, but you just have this, like, you

  15. 38:34 – 41:19

    How to get over the resentment after a late diagnosis

    1. LS

      just, you just know.

    2. AP

      I feel like I've spoken to so many people that have been diagnosed later-

    3. LS

      Mm

    4. AP

      ... and they have huge amounts of resentment-

    5. LS

      Mm

    6. AP

      ... towards the years that they have lost through feeling misunderstood.

    7. LS

      Yeah.

    8. AP

      Do you think that's a common reaction post-diagnosis, perhaps a little later in life?

    9. LS

      Yeah. I feel like people feel let down. They feel like, um, they feel angry towards their teachers, towards parents because they've had to be a certain way, and they've also realized that that way of them being isn't really or wasn't truly themselves, and they felt like they had to be that because, um, of how other people would validate them or, um, how they would receive love. So there would be a lot of anger, rage, um, frustration because they also, once you understand how your ADHD works, you realize your potential. You realize all the things that you can do, and you're not scattered. You're not, like, doing a little bit here, shiny object here, another shiny object here. You get to learn to understand, okay, there's a shiny object here. I'm not gonna mess with that because this is where my focus is right now. So the more you're understanding, the more, um, intentional, the more focused you can become and the more that you get to really follow your own true path. So people do, they go through a grief stage, um, stages. They have, like, denial, anger, bargaining, acceptance. They might feel, like, real frustration with the things that they've been through. So I do, I do see that, um, happen, and that's just people feeling let down from people around them not seeing them.

    10. AP

      And once someone gets a diagnosis, and they start working on their self work, they start working on their inner child, what advice would you give to someone? What relationship should they have with their inner child?

    11. LS

      I feel like with your inner child, it's going back to that version of you that perhaps once upon a time you thought you were too much. You, you thought that you were too sensitive. You may have thought that you were weak. You may have thought that there was something wrong with you, and it's creating or, um, allowing yourself to have that inner peace of there was never anything wrong with me. I was this way because of how my ADHD was showing up, and I didn't understand that. So you're not just shaming yourself. You're not telling yourself that you're a bad person because you have big emotions. If you wanna look at something, and something makes you cry, embrace it rather than thinking, "I shouldn't cry because other people around me are gonna think that I'm weak, or I'm this." It's like you're really learning to show up, being who you are, and not worrying about how people will see you or how they might judge you. It's like I don't, I don't need to keep relying and focusing on that because I feel enough as I am, and if I wanna cry, um, in this moment, I'm allowed to, and I don't carry that shame with me because I can notice other people's reactions, and they're uncomfortable. I realize that that's their stuff, but I'm where I am right now.

  16. 41:19 – 43:31

    How therapy can help ADHD

    1. AP

      How important do you think therapy is in someone's journey towards ADHD? Like, what can a good therapist do to help someone with ADHD who might be in turmoil better understand their past?

    2. LS

      Yeah. So it's interesting because you can have a diagnosis of ADHD, and often people, um, they come into therapy, and they're like, "Oh, I have a diagnosis of ADHD." And I'm like, "Okay, have you delved deeper into that?" Because you have a diagnosis, but now what? Like-How does it show up in your life? How is it that it's presenting itself? And the more you're understanding that, the more then, uh, you- the- the awareness that you get. Um, and I remember a few months ago, I was doing a C talk. Um, uh, it was a summit that we were doing with ADHD, and people came up to me after, and they were like, "But I've had therapy in the past, but, um, I haven't gone deeper into my inner child. I haven't, like, worked on things like this." And as I was having these conversations, what I noticed was there's therapists out there that, um, may work more on a surface level, where they focus on, "These are your symptoms. Let's work on the symptoms. So if there's... If you're feeling anxious, these are some of the things that you can do." Now, people that have ADHD, often their brain works in a way where they want to understand, like, "Why am I like this, and why do I present like this?" So for me, doing, um, and having a therapist who gets you, who understands you, who can help you, like, almost like hold a mirror up and be like, "This is why you're doing what you're doing. Maybe try this or perhaps try this." And it's not just intellectualizing and doing the work of talking about things. You also have- have to somatically feel into things. So that might be sitting in big emotions. It might be learning to regulate your nervous system, so when you see some- like, someone upset, you don't feel like you have to go into overcompensate, to people please, to be a perfectionist with that person. You're learning, "Okay, I'm feeling this emotion, but what can I do?" So that pause is really important 'cause it helps your, um, your prefrontal cortex, your amygdala, to really just connect with one another and be on the same team, rather than working against one another. And your amygdala's, like, had this big ama- uh, reaction, and then your prefrontal cortex catches up and is like, "What did you just do? Why have you just behaved in that way?"

    3. AP

      [laughs]

    4. LS

      And then it carries the shame. Um, so you just get caught in that cycle. But if you understand how your brain works, you can then help yourself. So therapy really, the, um... Working with the right therapist can really allow and support

  17. 43:31 – 45:31

    The ADHD item reveal

    1. LS

      you with that.

    2. AP

      I want to move on to my favorite part of the show, which is the ADHD item section. Your ADHD item is waiting patiently underneath that cloth, and I'm going to reveal it now.

    3. LS

      Ta-da.

    4. AP

      Right. That is a... Looks like a notebook.

    5. LS

      Yeah.

    6. AP

      Why does a notebook represent ADHD?

    7. LS

      So for me, I've really thought long and hard about this, and the reason why I chose a notebook is because if I didn't have the notebook, I wouldn't be able to cope. Everything goes in the notebook, um, my planning, my organizing, um, where I'm gonna be, what's gonna go on, and it's also a paper, um, journal that I have. Because if I don't... If it doesn't go in the journal, it's not happening, basically, and that's the thing that keeps me organized, and it keeps me sane, and it helps me to remember things. So that's why I chose that. But I also know my secondary thing was a bit, um, it was a rubber duck. And the reason why I wanted the rubber duck was because you see, um, from the, at the top view, you see that there's this elegance, there's this gracefulness. But actually underneath, um, what people don't see under the water is, like, the flapping and people feeling, um, like they're overthinking, they're ruminating, they're catastrophizing. No one sees that bit. Everyone just sees that there's... They're okay, and they're fine.

    8. AP

      Love it. A famous joke within the community with the notebooks is that people often buy one.

    9. LS

      Yeah.

    10. AP

      They buy many, but then they lose interest in it. Uh, they get bored of it, so they buy another one.

    11. LS

      Yeah.

    12. AP

      And the famous lie we tell ourselves is that a new notebook will solve all our problems.

    13. LS

      Yeah.

    14. AP

      But you've actually solved a problem-

    15. LS

      Yeah

    16. AP

      ... with a notebook.

    17. LS

      So that's only my diary. So that's my diary for the year. I always have, like, a, a yearly diary, and everything goes into that. So I have Monday to Fri- Monday to Sunday on one side, and on the other side, I have all my notes and everything that I need to remember for that week. So if I ever need to go back to anything, I go back in there. But I'm also someone who likes to collect nice diaries. So I have them, but I, I don't wanna waste them. So they, they sit there, and then I collect them, and I'm like, "When shall I use it? Not yet, because I don't wanna waste it, and I don't wanna make a mistake in it." So they just sit looking nice.

    18. AP

      Amazing.

  18. 45:31 – 49:16

    Audience questions

    1. AP

      Amazing. I wanna move on to the audience questions. Just one question, and it's in a washing machine, and this section's called the Washing Machine of Woes. And an audience member sends in their ADHD woes, and it goes in the washing machine.

    2. LS

      Nice.

    3. AP

      And it's a washing machine because for me, this represents memory loss. Because at the end of each cycle, I forget my clothes in the machine.

    4. LS

      [laughs]

    5. AP

      And I ask all my guests to make me feel hopefully less alone. Do you relate to that?

    6. LS

      I feel like not in the washing machine, in the dryer. So I hear the washing machine because my washing machine, it makes a noise. So it doesn't stop until I actually go there, so I have to go there, but then I will forget once they're in the dryer.

    7. AP

      Ah.

    8. LS

      Yeah.

    9. AP

      Mine makes a noise too, but then I get distracted, and I don't re-

    10. LS

      But does it not keep making a noise until you actually go there?

    11. AP

      No, it does, like, a chime for, like, 30 seconds.

    12. LS

      Oh.

    13. AP

      Then it goes silent.

    14. LS

      Yeah.

    15. AP

      And then you have to take over, but that's all right.

    16. LS

      No, mine goes off every, like, five minutes.

    17. AP

      Oh.

    18. LS

      So I have to go to it. It's like an alarm.

    19. AP

      Next time I buy a washing machine-

    20. LS

      [laughs]

    21. AP

      ... that's, I'm gonna go for that setting. That's gonna save me a fortune. I have u- been using the Tiimo app, which have helped me a lot actually to remember. Um, this week, someone has written into the washing machine, "I was diagnosed at 13 with an anxiety disorder by my doctor, and I've never received an ADHD diagnosis. However, watching and reading so many things about ADHD, I really think it could be ADHD. Is there a chance my doctor was wrong?"

    22. LS

      What I really hear there is, and again, it's really sad, is you've been diagnosed with some, um, or, or a, a diagnosis of, um, anxiety. You're carrying that through, thinking it's anxiety, but there might be something more going on. So then naturally you start to, um, see maybe, like, videos or other things. But what I would say and what I would advise is there's questionnaires that you can complete online, um, which have, uh, if you may have ADHD, fill out a questionnaire. And then if you do get a percentage or they say that you, you may have, um, ADHD or you meet a lot of the criteria, go and speak to your GP about it and say, "Look, I've done this questionnaire online." Make sure it's with a legit, um, uh, website as well, so it's, it's sponsored by a psychiatrist or, um, a, a mental health, um, organization. And then take it to your, um, GP because also GPs, they're general practitioners, so they may not know the full extent of ADHD, or they might be just hearing certain symptoms, and that for them falls under anxiety. So if you're doing some background, um, work, take it to your GP and see what they say.

    23. AP

      Brilliant advice. Thank you very much. I've spoken to so many people, and it seems to be a common trend or a common experience that people do get misdiagnosed with-

    24. LS

      Yeah

    25. AP

      ... an anxiety disorder. Do you f- see that commonly happening?

    26. LS

      Yeah, anxiety, depression, um, bipolar. So there's lots of different misdiagnosises that people can have because they don't fully understand how ADHD can show up. So for me, that's why it's looking at how someone's presenting, but also going back into their background history and making sure that you're doing a thorough assessment with someone to help them make sense. Like, if someone's feeling anxious, that might be part of, like, the rejection sensitivity. It might be part of them feeling very overstimulated when they're out in a social setting, and they're trying to take in everything that someone's saying. And then, um, the next time they're having... they know there's a social gathering, they have this anticipating anxiety that's coming up because they know what's gonna come up for them. So for me, it's like the more you understand yourself, the more, um, awareness you can gain and the more you can help yourself. So there are, in, in short, [laughs] yes, there are misdiagnosises that can happen.

    27. AP

      Truly fascinating. Thank you ever so much. Just finally, I want to deliver to you a letter that was written by the previous guest, where they wrote a letter to their younger self.

    28. LS

      Thank you.

    29. AP

      If you could kindly read out the last guest's-

    30. LS

      Yeah

  19. 49:16 – 49:58

    A letter to my younger self

    1. LS

      "To my younger self. Hey, girl. I know you think nobody likes you and that friendships are just unfathomable, but one day, you will really care about so many people and be cared about in return. It's hard to believe right now, but there are many people out there who feel just like you, and when you grow up, you'll help them to understand and feel happier about themselves." Aw.

    2. AP

      Oh, that is very nice.

    3. LS

      That is really beautiful.

    4. AP

      Very touching end to the episode.

    5. LS

      Yeah.

    6. AP

      On behalf of everyone grappling to understand their ADHD brains, thank you so much.

    7. LS

      Thank you. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it, and, um, I'm sure somewhere in the conversation, someone will hear something and resonate. [upbeat music]

  20. 49:58 – 51:28

    Focused survey results

    1. AP

      The results from the Focused survey are in. They asked you about your experience with ADHD and relationships, and 400 of you responded, which is a great turnout. Thank you to everyone who took part. Some really interesting results came out of this. When asked about when they first told their partner about their ADHD diagnosis, 41 and a half percent of people, so nearly half, said they waited over a year to tell their partner, and 26 and a half percent of people said they've never told them. So altogether, that's an astounding number. Over two thirds, 68%, either waited more than a year or just didn't tell their partner. 70% of people said that they'd had a breakup due to, or partly because of, ADHD, and 87 and a half percent said ADHD had caused tension or arguments with partners, which just goes to show the kind of strain the condition can sometimes have on relationships. And 65 and a half percent, again, roughly two thirds of people, said that ADHD had stopped them asking someone out on a date. So RSD, Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, which we've talked about so much on the podcast, likely being a significant factor here. Focused will be publishing all the results and analysis on their channels over the coming weeks, so please do give them a follow for more insights on this. They're also running a survey all about ADHD and the workplace, which they'd love for ADHD Chatter listeners to take part in again. People who take part will be entered into their prize draw to win up to 150 pounds in Amazon vouchers. You can find more details in the description and a link to the survey in their bio.

Episode duration: 51:28

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