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Deep Dive with Ali Abdaal

How I Built a $72,000,000 Business In 5 Years | Julian Hearn Founder Of Huel

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Ali AbdaalhostJulian Hearnguest

Feb 28, 20222h 3mWatch on YouTube

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CHAPTERS

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Chapter summaries

Does Drinking Your Meals Take the Joy Out of Food?
Ali introduces Julian Hearn and asks how Huel handles the idea that drinking meals feels unpalatable. Julian separates pleasure from happiness and explains Huel as functional, convenient nutrition rather than a replacement for social meals.
- •Julian distinguishes happiness from pleasure, saying joy sits closer to pleasure
- •Huel is meant for inconvenient meals, not Sunday dinners or restaurant meals
- •Julian has Huel for roughly 10 meals a week, mostly breakfast and lunch
- •Getting complete nutrition from natural food takes a spreadsheet
- •New pasta and hot savory products are mentioned
Starting a Business at 37: From Digging Roads to Marketing
Ali asks about Julian's late start as a founder, and Julian recounts leaving school at 16 with poor GCSEs, manual jobs, a marketing degree and a night shift at a petrol station. He describes getting into internet marketing and the early e-commerce site he persuaded a furniture retailer to build.
- •Most founder stories focus on very young people, but Julian started at 36 or 37
- •He left school at 16, dug holes in the road, then went to college and university
- •He worked a night shift at a petrol station before landing a marketing job
- •He persuaded a retailer to spend £67,000 on its first e-commerce website
Learning Affiliate Marketing and Quitting the Job
Needing to work from home, Julian taught himself affiliate marketing through podcasts and practice. After a year of evenings and weekends he quit his job, giving himself six months to match his salary, and managed it within three. Ali and Julian discuss how low the real risk of quitting is and the value of a limited period of crazy hours.
- •Julian met affiliates earning £10-20k a month and thought he could do it too
- •He worked evenings and weekends for about a year before quitting
- •He saved enough for six months of bills and was earning more than his salary within three months
- •Ali notes the real risk of quitting is the gap to the job you could easily get again
- •Julian counts roughly four years of crazy hours out of 50
The Voucher Code Niche, SEO Grind and The 4-Hour Workweek
Julian explains how he found a niche in voucher code sites by targeting 'promotional code' keywords that competitors ignored. He describes working with a developer in Serbia he never met and the influence of The 4-Hour Workweek on his outsourcing mindset.
- •Julian targeted 'promotional code' while others chased 'voucher codes'
- •He pointed links at specific deeper pages with optimized title tags
- •He worked for three years with a Serbian developer through Basecamp without ever meeting him
- •The 4-Hour Workweek taught him to outsource what he isn't good at
- •Grinding can beat talent in areas like SEO
Selling the Affiliate Business and Finding What Comes Next
Julian describes the affiliate business reaching over £2 million a year in profit and selling it to an American company around age 40. He explains why he took time out, why too much leisure is as unhealthy as too much work, and how he chose a three-day-a-week lifestyle business.
- •The site earned over £2 million a year in profit, up to £250,000 a month at the end
- •Julian sold because SEO reliance felt risky and he wanted to take chips off the table
- •The sale was under £10 million, so no yacht and no change in lifestyle
- •He argues work-life balance works both ways
- •He aimed for a lifestyle business of about three days a week
Body Hack and the Genesis of Huel
Julian explains how Body Hack, an evidence-based fitness site, came out of his own weighed-food diet that took him from 21% to 11% body fat. Feedback that the plans were too hard to follow led to the idea of a nutritionally complete, convenient powder, which became Huel. He and Ali also discuss Soylent and its founders.
- •Body Hack aimed to test programs and show evidence-based results
- •Weighing all his food produced more change in three months than ten years at the gym
- •Customers found cooking from scratch too inconvenient
- •A protein shake's convenience inspired a nutritionally complete product
- •Julian wasn't aware of Soylent when he began, and Huel launched in June 2015
Naming Huel, Buying the Domain and Setting Goals
Julian covers the cautious pre-launch years, finding co-founder James Collier, and creating the unique name Huel. He recommends The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing, explains why different businesses need different goals and timelines, and tells the story of negotiating for Huel.com.
- •Julian found nutritionist James Collier to work on the nutritionals
- •Huel comes from 'human fuel'; a unique word is easier to own and to search
- •The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing stresses names you can say, spell and repeat
- •Huel would have failed under his first business's six-month money goal
- •He bought Huel.com for £10,000 after the seller kept raising the price
Finding a Manufacturer and Launching from the Garage
Julian explains how hard it was to find a food manufacturer willing to work with a startup, including a multinational that strung him along. He eventually persuaded a small Devon company with a £5,000 order and packed the first orders by hand in his garage.
- •Food manufacturers are secretive and reluctant to take small startup orders
- •A multinational dropped him after four months of delay
- •He found the Devon manufacturer through Google, still working with them six years later
- •His logic was finding 1,000 people a month to pay £45
- •He hand-stamped and numbered boxes so he could later explain how to scale the process
Launch Traction, Pricing and the T-Shirt
Julian describes launch day, the PR agency he hired for press logos, and then scaling with performance ads. Julian and Ali discuss why he set a higher £45 price, the dangers of undercutting, and why Huel includes a free T-shirt based on Cialdini's principle of persuasion.
- •Huel got orders before launch, while Body Hack had spiked and faded
- •A three-month PR deal at £5k a month got national press logos to build trust
- •Advice to start with a higher price because it's easier to lower than raise
- •Pricing is an art as well as a science, not just margin or competitor matching
- •The T-shirt adds value over discounting and spreads the brand
- •Sales reached about £750k in six months, then £5m and £14m in following years
Hiring a Scrappy Team and Stepping Back from the CEO Role
Julian explains hiring mostly fresh graduates early on to keep costs low and find adaptable people. He and Ali discuss how challenges and stress scale with size. Julian explains why he stepped down as CEO to become CMO and how he found a CEO through LinkedIn.
- •Early hires were graduates willing to wear many hats and pack boxes
- •Headcount roughly tracked one person per million in sales
- •Moving into a branded office turned Huel from a flaky startup into a real business
- •Julian says his stress is lower now that he does work he's good at
- •He found his CEO using LinkedIn's recruiter tool
- •He says founders stay founders, so there's no need to hold onto the CEO role
Building a Customer-Obsessed Product Line and What's Next
Julian explains Huel's focus on product and customer obsession, listening to organic feedback rather than surveys, which led to Black Edition and Hot & Savory. He briefly previews the pipeline, noting that anything can be made nutritionally complete.
- •Listen to your own customers rather than copying competitors
- •Julian distrusts surveys and prefers organic feedback, including from rejecters
- •Black Edition and Hot & Savory came from repeated customer requests
- •Huel keeps its range small, at seven products
- •New product development runs up to 30 projects at a time
Regrets and How Huel Hires
Julian says he believes in no regrets, though he would have applied today's recruitment principles earlier. He details Huel's process, including internal recruiters, role-specific tests, vetoable culture interviews and up to six rounds, plus tips for standing out as a candidate.
- •Huel uses internal recruiters who know the brand
- •Candidates do a role-specific test because interviews are artificial
- •Culture fit interviews can be vetoed, and one value is 'don't be a dick'
- •Fewer than 5% of applicants write a covering letter
- •A creative CV styled as a Huel label made one applicant stand out
Firing People and Building Company Culture
Julian discusses performance problems, why feedback usually doesn't change outcomes, and why he would act sooner. He then describes how Huel builds culture through values, perks, share options, inductions and events, and the challenge of remote work.
- •Give people clear feedback and chances, but it rarely improves things
- •In early days he kept underperformers too long
- •Huel has two sets of values: Huel's DNA and 'how to be a Hueligan'
- •Julian personally inducts every new joiner and values are put on laptops
- •Perks include share options, a gym and free Huel
- •Working from home makes culture harder, so big parties bring everyone together
Balancing Family Life and Building a Business
Ali asks for tips on juggling relationships with entrepreneurship. Julian says partners need to understand there will be intense periods with an end goal, admits he has limited advice, and says he isn't a regimented planner and his brain keeps generating ideas.
- •Both partners should know intense periods are temporary
- •Days off from work can conflict with wanting to go out
- •Julian doesn't keep strict hours like clear Sundays
- •Ideas often arrive on holiday or in the shower
- •Dating an entrepreneur differs from dating someone with a 9-to-5
Audience Q&A: Starting Scrappy, Picking Ideas and Resources
Julian answers social media questions on mistakes, pushing through the unpaid phase, the hardest part of ownership, advice for teenage entrepreneurs, staying fast as a team grows, picking an idea and learning resources. He and Ali also discuss three-person squads.
- •Huel took two years before Julian made any money and he nearly gave up
- •Start something cheap, expect early attempts to fail and double down on what gets traction
- •Bigger companies move slower, so scrappy launches are an early advantage
- •Niche down, scratch your own itch and test quickly with a simple ad and website
- •Recommends The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing, podcasts and Y Combinator lectures
Rapid-Fire Questions and Closing
Ali asks his standard rapid-fire questions, covering Julian's biggest influence, success tip, daily routine, Oura Ring, book recommendation, what he'd do after Huel and his mantra. Julian closes by choosing journey over destination.
- •The biggest influence is The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing
- •Success needs a motivating goal that isn't only money
- •Julian uses an Oura Ring to monitor sleep and steps
- •His mantra is 'if it doesn't fit, force it'
- •He picks journey over destination

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