How To Build A Business In 2023 (The Easy Way) - Robin Waite

1. 0:00 – 4:21

   Intro

   1. RWRobin Waite0:00

      Imagine if Lewis Hamilton looked at Ayrton Senna 30 years ago when he first got in a cart and he thought, "I'm never gonna be as good as Ayrton Senna." Like, we'd never have, you know, a seven-time world champion. Rather than looking at it and going, "I can never achieve that," look at it and go, "Well, they've done it, so can I."

   2. AAAli Abdaal0:13

      Now, I know that we have a lot of people listening to this podcast who potentially wanna start their own business someday, maybe even today or tomorrow. And so this interview is with Robin Waite. Robin is a professional business coach, he's also a public speaker, and he's an author. He previously built and sold a web design agency, and is also building a software company on the side.

   3. RWRobin Waite0:30

      Get out there and sell something for some money and see how you feel about it afterwards. It's as simple as that. You'll learn 90% of everything you need to know, 'cause within having to do that, you had to market, 'cause you had to make somebody aware that you had a program to sell or that you had a lawnmower to push around somebody's garden or whatever it might be.

   4. AAAli Abdaal0:47

      This has been one of my favorite episodes of the podcast, and Robin's book, Take Your Shot, was one of the books... I think I read it in, like, 2020 or 2021, and it featured in my top 10 books that I recommended that year.

   5. RWRobin Waite0:56

      The reason why I wrote the book is 'cause I know that there's some smart people out there who will read the book, learn what they need to do, they'll go out there and they'll just execute it. And then I went to deliver a talk, uh, in front of about 60 people, and somebody asked me, "What's the thing that stops people from achieving their goals?" And I said, "Fear, basically." Business owners need to fear the little things in life, business, ever so slightly less that stop them achieving their goals.

   6. AAAli Abdaal1:19

      Hey, friends. So before we get into the episode, I've got some very exciting news that I'm finally able to share with you, and that is that I have written a book. Now, if you've been following the podcast for a while, you'll probably know from some of my conversations with authors in particular, that it's been quite the journey over the last three years. This has been the single hardest thing that I've ever done in my life. But after three years, it's finally here, and I'm delighted to announce that my book, Feel-Good Productivity, is now available for pre-order. It's gonna be published later this year, and you can find a link down in the video description, or if you head over to FeelGoodProductivity.com, all one word, uh, you can check out the website, and the website is absolutely sick. Now, the central idea for the book came from a realization that I had while I was working as a doctor a few years ago and trying to juggle everything with my YouTube channel and my business, and I kind of realized that the secret to productivity isn't discipline, it's in fact joy. And sure, hard work and grit and willpower and determination and all of those things are good in small doses, but for most of us, they tend not to be the sustainable route to consistent productivity. But I realized through a lot of experimentation and then diving into a bunch of research, that actually the secret to productivity that feels enjoyable and meaningful and sustainable is to find a way to make your work feel good, to find a way to make it feel energizing and enjoyable. And if you do that, you'll be more productive in your work, but you'll also have way more energy to give to the other things in your life that matter to you. And this isn't just my own personal experience, but it's an idea that's been validated by a bunch of studies in the fields of psychology and neuroscience as well. And so the writing process of the book over the last three years has involved reading hundreds of research papers, interviewing academics and experts in the fields of, like, psychology and procrastination and motivation, and spending years trying to condense it into a format and cut out all the fluff and trying to do it in a way that's, like, engaging and actionable at the same time. So that's what the book is about. It is a science-backed guide on how to do more of what matters to you in a way that feels enjoyable and meaningful and sustainable. And if you enjoy this podcast, then I can basically guarantee that you will love the stuff that's in the book. Uh, there are nine chapters. Each chapter has six different experiments in it that you can try out in your own life. And so there are 54 different experiments, strategies that you can apply to your life, starting from as soon as you read the book. And the idea is that you apply these and you see if they work for you. And over time, you'll build your own feel-good productivity system. Now, if you do decide to pre-order the book, then that would be awesome, because firstly, it helps me out, and secondly, I think the ideas in this book can be genuinely life-changing. And if you pre-order the book, it will be delivered straight to you on release date later this year, or to your Kindle or your Audible account, and I'm narrating the audiobook, by the way, uh, or to the hardback, hardback version of the book if you prefer to read physical copies of books. And if you do pre-order, then please do be sure to save your receipts, because I'm gonna be announcing a bunch of really exciting pre-order bonuses exclusively only for people who pre-order the book. And so final thing before we get into the episode is just wanted to say a massive thank you to you guys. By watching the videos, by subscribing on social media, by listening to the podcast, you have made this book possible. Um, without you guys supporting the channel and everything that I do, there's no way Penguin would've come knocking and been like, "Hey, do you wanna write a book?" And so I'm like, this has been, like, such a rewarding experience, and I could not have g- come to this point without your support. So I just wanted to say a massive thank you from the bottom of my heart for that. So that's it from me. Do check out the book if you'd like at FeelGoodProductivity.com. It'll be linked down below in the podcast description and the show notes as well. But now let's get into the podcast episode itself.

2. 4:21 – 7:57

   What does a business coach do?

   1. AAAli Abdaal4:21

      All right, Robin, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Um, you are, according to your bio, a, uh, an author and also a speaker and also a business coach. Um, you're the author of this very good book, Take Your Shot, which I read a couple of years ago and shared the shit out of on my email list 'cause I just absolutely loved it. Um, but I thought we'd make this episode about the business coach stuff. So what is a business coach, firstly?

   2. RWRobin Waite4:45

      Yeah. There's a, there's a lot of, um, common sort of misconceptions about the differences between business coach, what's a mentor, what's a consultant. Um, so in my view, so a, a mentor typically has been there and done it, got the T-shirt, maybe they're 10 years ahead of where you want to be. For example, if you, if you wanna run a business, well, go and find these r- find somebody who's run a similar business with a mentor and they'll tell you what to do. A coach, in my view, tends to sort of ask well-formed questions. They're not necessarily there to tell you what to do. They're kind of more of a guide. Um, and I suppose, like, my approach is a bit of a mixture between sort of business coaching and mentoring. So I've, I ran the agency for 12 years, got that T-shirt. Um, and sometimes as much as you can kind of lead a horse to water through well-formed questions, people don't often get it, and sometimes they kind of need to just be told or shown what to do and away they go.

   3. AAAli Abdaal5:36

      Nice. So is it, like... Like, and so, and so, and so when you say business coach, like, let's say someone is... Like, for example, if I wanna s- if I wanna learn tennis, I might be able to read a book, I might be able to watch some online videos. But, like, if I hired a tennis coach and I was like, "Look, I'm a complete beginner and I wanna learn how to play tennis," they'd be able to help me figure it out. Is it the same thing for business?

   4. RWRobin Waite5:57

      It's exactly the same thing for business, but the... There's a really important piece which you kind of missed out there as well, 'cause there's gonna be one day when you kind of are a bit lethargic, wake up in the morning, and you don't really wanna play tennis that much.

   5. AAAli Abdaal6:07

      Yeah.

   6. RWRobin Waite6:07

      And so your coach will be there, and they're like Hopefully not with too much kicking or screaming, drag you out of bed, get you onto the court, make sure that you, you're taking the right sort of nutrition and self-care and things like that. And g- it's kind of more of a nurturing sort of process than it is, you know, just, um, sort of giving people a formula and, and away they go. So-

   7. AAAli Abdaal6:25

      Mm.

   8. RWRobin Waite6:26

      So I, uh, there's a lot of accountability, which I do with clients. So, um, again, when you're coaching somebody, typically what tends to happen is you're inviting them to do something which they maybe are a little bit too scared to have... They know they need to do it, but maybe they haven't quite got the confidence to get out there and, and do it for whatever reason. So it could be, well, fear is ob- the obvious one, like fear of failure, fear of, um, uh, fear of success in some cases, fear of, um, you know, rejection. So sales, for example, is something which you cover a lot of because you're gonna get an awful lot of rejection in there, and obviously as human beings, we like to be liked, so getting out there and getting lots of nos doesn't come naturally to a lot of people.

   9. AAAli Abdaal7:04

      Yeah.

   10. RWRobin Waite7:05

       And as human beings, we tend to avoid the things we don't like, the things which kind of offer us discomfort. Uh, we move towards comfortable things, you know, nice, nice fluffy pillows and cushions and things like that. So coach's job, uh, is really just to, like, get people out there at, slightly outside their comfort zone. I, I don't really like that term, 'cause if you're too far outside your comfort zone t- for too long, it actually has an opposite effect.

   11. AAAli Abdaal7:27

       Mm.

   12. RWRobin Waite7:27

       It's like, it's a demotivator at that point. So, um, so you wanna push them just a little bit outside their comfort zone, but enough so that they can learn through that experience of doing something new, and then they s- from there they... It's, it's kind of easy at that point 'cause they start to build muscle memory. They start to do things on autopilot, and then you get that really, like, happy parent sort of moment where you're like, "Ah." Like, really proud of, like, watching your, um, you know, clients kind of grow and do stuff that they weren't doing before they met you.

   13. AAAli Abdaal7:55

       Nice. Okay. Sick.

3. 7:57 – 18:33

   The three Fs of business

   1. AAAli Abdaal7:57

      So, um, we have a lot of people in our, um, who, who listen or watch this podcast and in our Deep Diver community who are interested in starting their own business, interested in becoming entrepreneurs. They see the benefits of the entrepreneur lifestyle. They might see a business like mine and be like, "Damn, he quit his day job, and now he makes millions on the internet making videos. That seems pretty fricking cool." And I think especially with the whole cost of living crisis, the pandemic, people losing their jobs, a lot of people have kind of seen that, hang on, the default path is no longer working, the path where I get a job, I g- I go to a decent uni, that lands me a decent job, that lands me promotion after promotion, and eventually I'm happy. That default path, no... And, and I'll be able to buy a house and stuff, no longer really works. And so a lot of people are looking to entrepreneurship, to starting a business as a kind of way out of the situation that they're in or a way into a more fulfilling life filled with freedom, fun, flexibility, money, impact, all of the, all of the good things. But the problem people have is that taking that first step and getting started. So I wonder if, can we sort of do a bit of a role play where I'm a total beginner coming to you as a coach, and I'll try and play the part and imagine myself how I was a few years ago potentially, and you kind of-

   2. RWRobin Waite9:10

      Cool

   3. AAAli Abdaal9:10

      ... coach me through the process?

   4. RWRobin Waite9:10

      Yep.

   5. AAAli Abdaal9:11

      Is that reasonable?

   6. RWRobin Waite9:11

      Yeah, we could do that. Yep.

   7. AAAli Abdaal9:12

      Okay. Sick. So I'm gonna be like, "Right, Robin, I've heard, you know, I heard you on Ali's podcast. I w- I've heard you're a business coach. I think I wanna start my own business, but I d- d- uh, you know, I d- it's, it's overwhelming. I don't even know where to begin. I've got a day job. Ugh, I don't, I f- yeah. Help, help me. What do I, what do I do?"

   8. RWRobin Waite9:29

      Cool. So my first question is why?

   9. AAAli Abdaal9:31

      Why? Okay. Um, so I am working as a junior doctor at the moment, and it's really grueling, and I thought I enjoyed medicine, but actually now that I'm actually working in it, I'm realizing that spending 40, 50, 60 hours a week working in the NHS, you know, I'm not sure if I wa- if I wanna leave, leave medicine, but I watched some of Ali Abdaal's YouTube videos. He talks about the power of having multiple streams of, of income, preferably passive income. And so I was thinking, you know, if I could make an extra 2K a month, 3K a month, that would be l- completely life-changing. I'd be able to go part-time in my j- in my day job, working maybe two or three days a week, and I'd be able to actually spend time with my girlfriend, who I wanna propose to, and we wanna have kids. But I, you know, I don't wanna live a life where I'm sort of tied to wage slavery for 60 hours a week.

   10. RWRobin Waite10:14

       Cool. Okay. So my next question is for you, so, uh, thank you as well for giving me all that backstory. Um, I suppose I wanna get an idea about how big a problem it is for you at the moment. Like, how long can you tolerate being where you are right now, would you say?

   11. AAAli Abdaal10:32

       Ooh, okay. So I'm, like, two years into my doctor career.

   12. RWRobin Waite10:35

       Could you do it for another six months, a year?

   13. AAAli Abdaal10:39

       Yeah. I've got my... You know, I'm finishing off my F2 year in about six months' time, so at that point, there's a very natural break point.

   14. RWRobin Waite10:45

       Okay.

   15. AAAli Abdaal10:46

       But I don't have enough money to be able to sort of not work.

   16. RWRobin Waite10:48

       Okay.

   17. AAAli Abdaal10:48

       And so I'm planning to do locums and extra shifts and stuff. And I can probably do that for a year or two, but if I continue on that point, and if I really wanna go into medicine, then, uh, you know, the, the more years you take out of the thing, the, the harder it is to go back in.

   18. RWRobin Waite11:00

       Yeah.

   19. AAAli Abdaal11:01

       Um, but honestly, if I had to, you know, the last six months, if I had to relive those for more than maybe another six, I don't know if I could handle it.

   20. RWRobin Waite11:10

       Okay. So, and where... And did you say sort of 2K to 3K a month extra? Is that what you want to earn, or is it 2K to 3K to get you out of where you want to be right now?

   21. AAAli Abdaal11:19

       So at the moment I'm earning about 3K a month.

   22. RWRobin Waite11:21

       Okay.

   23. AAAli Abdaal11:21

       And I'm thinking if I can get to... You know, if I could have a business that even makes me 2K, that would be the absolute, the absolute dream. It would be so good.

   24. RWRobin Waite11:29

       Cool.

   25. AAAli Abdaal11:29

       I'd be able to then go down to three days a week.

   26. RWRobin Waite11:31

       So down... Okay, to an extra 2K, drop you down to two week, uh, two d- three days a week.

   27. AAAli Abdaal11:36

       Yeah.

   28. RWRobin Waite11:36

       Okay. Cool. What do you love doing?

   29. AAAli Abdaal11:39

       I thought I loved medicine. Um-

   30. RWRobin Waite11:40

       [laughs]
4. 18:33 – 28:30

   Getting your business started

   1. RWRobin Waite18:33

      year or two.

   2. AAAli Abdaal18:34

      Hmm.

   3. RWRobin Waite18:35

      But with what you suggested previously, like y-y- if it's just about the money, you can't in- you can't in-influence the other two.

   4. AAAli Abdaal18:43

      Hmm. Okay. Yeah. 'Cause I guess part of me was, was, w- was worrying like, yeah, I think I enjoyed web design, but to be, to be honest, I haven't done it in like 10 years at this point, and I enjoy other things as well, like, like, like we said, playing World of Warcraft, watching Netflix, m- you know, I en- I enjoy playing badminton, but I'm pretty unlikely to be a professional World of Warcraft player. Not many people make money for watching Netflix, and very few people become professional badminton players. So it's like, how, how, how much does like, I guess, a viable business model-

   5. RWRobin Waite19:11

      Imagine if, imagine if Lewis Hamilton looked at Ayrton Senna like 20-plus years or 30 years ago when he, you know, f- first got in a cart and he thought, "I'm never gonna be as good as Ayrton Senna." Like, we'd never have, you know, seven-time world champion. Any, any of the amazing things out there, if you look at it, rather than looking at it and going, "I can never achieve that," look at it and go, "Well, they've done it, so can I." Yeah. And then, and then it's about thinking. So that's the future version of you-

   6. AAAli Abdaal19:36

      Okay

   7. RWRobin Waite19:36

      ... way off in the distance.

   8. AAAli Abdaal19:37

      Yeah.

   9. RWRobin Waite19:37

      But the, the future version of Ali in 12 months' time or 12 years' time needs today's Ali to do something. So what's the first step you're gonna take with your web design business?

   10. AAAli Abdaal19:49

       Hang on, hang on. I'm, I'm, I'm still not sold on whether it's a, it's a web design business, because-

   11. RWRobin Waite19:52

       Well, let's, let's just go with it. We can always change the product later. Business is business, right? But it doesn't matter what the product is.

   12. AAAli Abdaal19:58

       Yeah.

   13. RWRobin Waite19:59

       Businesses work the same way the world over.

   14. AAAli Abdaal20:01

       Okay.

   15. RWRobin Waite20:02

       So you have y- the same function, sales, marketing, finance.

   16. AAAli Abdaal20:05

       Yeah.

   17. RWRobin Waite20:06

       The different functions of a business are the same, no matter what business you're in.

   18. AAAli Abdaal20:10

       Okay.

   19. RWRobin Waite20:10

       They're all the same. So the product can change, so long as you understand the concept around how to productize any kind of a service. It doesn't matter whether it's web design or videography or podcasting or whatever, you know, whatever it might happen to be.

   20. AAAli Abdaal20:25

       Yeah.

   21. RWRobin Waite20:26

       Um, as long as you get the concepts of it, you can apply the frameworks to anything.

   22. AAAli Abdaal20:31

       So then how important is it to... Because, because for example, I've got a full-time job, I don't have very much time on my hands, and I-

   23. RWRobin Waite20:36

       Yeah

   24. AAAli Abdaal20:36

       ... ideally want to get to this kind of 2K a month dream world in the next, say, six to 12 months.

   25. RWRobin Waite20:40

       Yeah.

   26. AAAli Abdaal20:40

       So how important is it that I get the, get the right topic, like whether it's web design or tennis coaching or personal trainer? Or like I, I feel like there are all these options of making money, and-

   27. RWRobin Waite20:51

       Yeah

   28. AAAli Abdaal20:51

       ... I'm often... I, I think in the past I've been held back by just seeing all these gurus on YouTube getting rich.

   29. RWRobin Waite20:54

       Well, at the moment you're not doing anything, so...

   30. AAAli Abdaal20:57

       That's true. [chuckles]
5. 28:30 – 44:43

   Pricing yourself

   1. AAAli Abdaal28:30

      business, but it's the, the thing I'm passionate about is giving relationship advice to my friends.

   2. RWRobin Waite28:34

      Cool.

   3. AAAli Abdaal28:34

      And I would love to build a business around that.

   4. RWRobin Waite28:36

      Awesome.

   5. AAAli Abdaal28:37

      And I'm keen, you know, ha-happy to take the next step in that direction.

   6. RWRobin Waite28:40

      Cool. Are you doing any of that at the moment?

   7. AAAli Abdaal28:42

      Uh, yeah. So my friend... I mean, I'm not, uh, charging anyone for it, but my friends, like all... they all come to me for relationship advice.

   8. RWRobin Waite28:48

      Okay.

   9. AAAli Abdaal28:48

      And it's like, I love it. You know, I get home from a day of work and I feel drained. But when a friend comes over, I make them a cup of tea and we talk about their relationship, and I feel so energized by that.

   10. RWRobin Waite28:59

       Awesome. How are you, how are you thinking about sort of launching that as a business? Just out of curiosity.

   11. AAAli Abdaal29:05

       I know that relationship therapists are a thing.

   12. RWRobin Waite29:06

       Okay.

   13. AAAli Abdaal29:06

       And I even heard... I was, I was listening to one of Steven Bartlett's podcast. He, he had a relationship coach on there-

   14. RWRobin Waite29:12

       Okay

   15. AAAli Abdaal29:12

       ... where you don't need a qualification to be a coach. And so that thought... I, I thought that was pretty good.

   16. RWRobin Waite29:16

       Yeah.

   17. AAAli Abdaal29:16

       Um, because I don't have much time to get a qualification or something. But if I could build a business around helping people get better in their relationships or feel better about their relationships, that would be really cool.

   18. RWRobin Waite29:27

       Yeah.

   19. AAAli Abdaal29:28

       Um, at the moment, I just think it, I, I just think it would be cool. I don't actually know how I'd find clients and stuff.

   20. RWRobin Waite29:32

       Okay.

   21. AAAli Abdaal29:32

       So what, what do you think? Is, is that a viable business?

   22. RWRobin Waite29:33

       We'll co- we'll come on to that. And you, you've-- Before we do that, you've raised a really valid point there because there is a, there's a gray... there's a line, fine line between therapy and coaching.

   23. AAAli Abdaal29:42

       Mm.

   24. RWRobin Waite29:43

       And I think it's massively important to kind of point that out. And a lot of people start coaching and then just because they're enthusiastic and there's, you know, they kind of do it for the right reasons, but unfortunately execute it poorly. They start to transgress into... My, my belief is when you... You don't need a coaching qualification for coaching, I should say. But when it comes to crossing over into the, the mind, body, spirit type stuff and it becomes therapy-related work, that I believe you need a certificate for.

   25. AAAli Abdaal30:09

       Mm.

   26. RWRobin Waite30:09

       Because you're treading, like, a very fine line between sort of mental health issues and physical issues-

   27. AAAli Abdaal30:13

       Mm

   28. RWRobin Waite30:13

       ... and things like that. So it's really worth sort of emphasizing that. But, um, coming back to your idea about, um, sort of setting up as a relationship coach, for example. So, um, what's, what steps would you take, uh, an individual through to help them, I guess, find a partner or have a better relationship? Which approach would you take? What would the steps be?

   29. AAAli Abdaal30:36

       Ooh. Okay. So I guess I've helped b-friends in both ca- in both camps.

   30. RWRobin Waite30:39

       Okay.
6. 44:43 – 58:30

   Finding clients

   1. RWRobin Waite44:43

      who's... What type of person has disposable income of two and a half K? And again, don't forget, it's gonna be spaced over six months.

   2. AAAli Abdaal44:50

      Okay. So like-

   3. RWRobin Waite44:51

      They could pay for it all up front if they want to. That's their choice.

   4. AAAli Abdaal44:53

      Okay.

   5. RWRobin Waite44:53

      But-

   6. AAAli Abdaal44:53

      So that's, like, 500 quid a month basically for six months.

   7. RWRobin Waite44:57

      Yeah.

   8. AAAli Abdaal44:57

      Who is the sort of person who would have that kind of disposable income? Okay. So well, firstly, all my friends working in finance.

   9. RWRobin Waite45:02

      Yeah.

   10. AAAli Abdaal45:03

       All of my friends working in tech. Basically, none of my friends working in medicine. But, you know, my mom's a consultant psychiatrist. She has colleagues who are trying to get into dating after divor- after a divorce or something. They easily have 500 quid a month to, to throw at this problem.

   11. RWRobin Waite45:16

       Yeah.

   12. AAAli Abdaal45:16

       So I think basically people who have, [laughs] who have lots of money. [laughs] Yeah. They're the ones who can afford 500 quid a month for my service.

   13. RWRobin Waite45:24

       Your dad, it's the, it's the unique Ali dad program.

   14. AAAli Abdaal45:26

       [laughs] Yeah.

   15. RWRobin Waite45:28

       Dating after divorce.

   16. AAAli Abdaal45:29

       Yeah. [laughs]

   17. RWRobin Waite45:30

       [laughs] There you go. That, that's, that could be a nice niche to go into. You... Thing is, you've got all of those choices. You can make all of those choices and adjustments as you go further down the line.

   18. AAAli Abdaal45:37

       Okay.

   19. RWRobin Waite45:38

       They, they don't have to be perfect like right now.

   20. AAAli Abdaal45:40

       Okay. Damn. Man, I feel so, I feel so inspired already, and I, I know we haven't done anything, but just, like, seeing you break it down, like, I think in my mind, 2K a month was, like, the, the most obscure, like, there's no way in fucking hell this is ever gonna work. But it's just 10 clients paying two and a half K for a six-week transformational program where I'm showing up every single week to help, help them through the process-

   21. RWRobin Waite46:07

       Yeah

   22. AAAli Abdaal46:07

       ... and they're gonna find the love of their life, fingers crossed.

   23. RWRobin Waite46:09

       Yeah.

   24. AAAli Abdaal46:09

       Or at least someone to be in a long-term relationship with.

   25. RWRobin Waite46:11

       Yeah.

   26. AAAli Abdaal46:12

       That makes it so doable.

   27. RWRobin Waite46:13

       Now, there was some, there was something which-

   28. AAAli Abdaal46:14

       Why is it so hard? [laughs]

   29. RWRobin Waite46:14

       There was something which popped up as well.

   30. AAAli Abdaal46:16

       Yeah.
7. 58:30 – 1:06:53

   Scaling your company

   1. AAAli Abdaal58:30

      The way that I've approached everything at school and university, it's like trying to aim for perfection, 'cause when you hand in the assignment, you can't just improve it later. You have to work on it so hard and then-

   2. RWRobin Waite58:39

      But you, but you have to remember though, Ali, like, when you're in medicine, lives depend on it. It has to be perfect.

   3. AAAli Abdaal58:44

      Yeah.

   4. RWRobin Waite58:44

      Right? And there's not many things that have that level of jeopardy in them-

   5. AAAli Abdaal58:48

      Yeah

   6. RWRobin Waite58:48

      ... like what you work through with, with medicine. And when it comes to business, like, you know, I think everybody thinks that it's the equivalent of somehow walking across the plains of Africa, and you, you know, a bit different when you've got to walk 10 miles to the river to get... and there's hippos and lions and things, actual things that can eat you.

   7. AAAli Abdaal59:04

      Hmm.

   8. RWRobin Waite59:05

      Whereas, like, in business, you can make mistakes. Y- you call them failures if you want to, but you can use them as opportunities to learn. And there's only two things that can possibly go wrong. You lose a bit of money, or you lose a bit of face.

   9. AAAli Abdaal59:15

      [laughs]

   10. RWRobin Waite59:16

       So you look a bit stupid-

   11. AAAli Abdaal59:17

       Yeah

   12. RWRobin Waite59:17

       ... or you, you're back to where you started again before.

   13. AAAli Abdaal59:19

       Yeah.

   14. RWRobin Waite59:20

       And you go again. You come up with another idea, another Google Doc, another Facebook ad, another whatever.

   15. AAAli Abdaal59:24

       Wow.

   16. RWRobin Waite59:24

       And, and the thing is, like, inside, we g- we think that everybody's watching us.

   17. AAAli Abdaal59:28

       Yeah.

   18. RWRobin Waite59:29

       Right?

   19. AAAli Abdaal59:29

       I'm th- I'm thinking all my friends, all the nurses at work, all of my junior doctor colleagues are gonna be like, "Ha, what a twat, this Ali guy, thinking he can give relationship advice. He doesn't even have a qualification."

   20. RWRobin Waite59:39

       Uh, sounds to me like they're not true friends. Your true friends will be, like, supportive.

   21. AAAli Abdaal59:45

       My true friends wouldn't care. They'd be like, "Sick."

   22. RWRobin Waite59:47

       Yeah, exactly.

   23. AAAli Abdaal59:47

       But I'm, I'm thinking about the colleagues at work, yeah. [laughs]

   24. RWRobin Waite59:49

       Well, screw them.

   25. AAAli Abdaal59:50

       Yeah.

   26. RWRobin Waite59:50

       Screw them. Let, let them do, you know, do them.

   27. AAAli Abdaal59:53

       Yeah.

   28. RWRobin Waite59:53

       And this is about building success for you.

   29. AAAli Abdaal59:56

       Damn. Okay. Okay, so Marketing 101, figure out the target audience.

   30. RWRobin Waite1:00:01

       Yep.
8. 1:06:53 – 1:18:18

   Managing your finances

   1. RWRobin Waite1:06:53

      So what you want to do is you want to understand numbers enough so that when you make 10K in a month, you know that... And this is where you get into, like, Profit First territory. So are you familiar with Mike Michalowicz's book, Profit First? So he talks about, um-

   2. AAAli Abdaal1:07:07

      I think I am, but not the-

   3. RWRobin Waite1:07:08

      [laughs] Yeah

   4. AAAli Abdaal1:07:09

      ... the relationship coach version of me. [laughs]

   5. RWRobin Waite1:07:11

      [laughs] Oh. So i- in it he basically talks about, like, 'cause, uh, having, like, five different bank accounts effectively, and, like, Starling and Monzo, so online banking apps now have made this so much easier 'cause they have these little things called Spaces. So you have one bank account, but you siphon off little bits of money. But he basically says, "Well, you, you set aside, uh, in the UK your, your VAT, your corporation tax, if you've got employees, PAYE, National Insurance contributions. Uh, you have a little," I call, call it the fun pot, so I, that... normally for me, that's, like, buying camera gear. And then the other one is the rainy day fund. So you have a savings kitty for if we had no money for six months, could, could, would the business still work, basically function? And then, and then your main account is then just like a float, so just day-to-day expenses, money coming in and out, and things like that. And the idea is so that if 10K comes in, well, 2K goes to that, 1K goes to, you know, corporation tax, 1K goes to National Insurance Contri... you know, so you divvy it up the moment the money comes in. So by the end of the year when you do your returns, you've got the money saved up to pay all of your taxes up front. Hopefully, you've got a bit of extra money because you've s- put some in your fun pot and in your rainy day fund, so you could draw some of that down if you want, you know, and spend that on just fun stuff-

   6. AAAli Abdaal1:08:29

      Yeah

   7. RWRobin Waite1:08:29

      ... or reinvest it into the business and things like that. And, like, a- again, the amount of times I hear business owners say, "Oh, I've got a cashflow problem." I'm, I'm sorry, I'm, I'm a total geek when it comes to numbers, so you're gonna hear me talk-

   8. AAAli Abdaal1:08:40

      Cashflow. What do you mean by cashflow?

   9. RWRobin Waite1:08:41

      Cashflow. So ca- cashflow they see it as like the money just basically flowing in and out of the business.

   10. AAAli Abdaal1:08:45

       Okay, right.

   11. RWRobin Waite1:08:45

       Okay. So-

   12. AAAli Abdaal1:08:45

       So having a cashflow problem, is that just a euphemism for, "I'm broke"?

   13. RWRobin Waite1:08:48

       Uh, k- kind of, basically, because it's not a cashflow problem, 'cause if money flows in, it flows straight back out again, so there's no cashflow problem there. They've got two problems, though. The actual real problems are making more money-

   14. AAAli Abdaal1:08:58

       Yep

   15. RWRobin Waite1:08:58

       ... so this is where we talk, have the pricing conversation, and second to that is then keeping that money.

   16. AAAli Abdaal1:09:03

       Yep.

   17. RWRobin Waite1:09:04

       Right?

   18. AAAli Abdaal1:09:04

       Yep.

   19. RWRobin Waite1:09:04

       [laughs] 'Cause what I typically tend to see is the, um, uh, f- I dunno how you're gonna explain this to podcast listeners. Hopefully, this will work for the video. But, uh, people, as their turnover starts to increase like that, which is like the dream, isn't it, straight line upwards, um, the overheads start to track up with it, 'cause we're like, "Right, we've got money to reinvest."

   20. AAAli Abdaal1:09:21

       Yeah.

   21. RWRobin Waite1:09:21

       Whether that's in staff or, um, machinery, kit, whatever it might be, what-

   22. AAAli Abdaal1:09:27

       Yeah

   23. RWRobin Waite1:09:27

       ... you know, marketing, starts to track up. Now we have a bad month, and now our expenses are up here and our revenue's down here.

   24. AAAli Abdaal1:09:32

       Mm.

   25. RWRobin Waite1:09:33

       So w- we're now in this position of loss, and that's where the fear really kicks in for a lot of people. Now, normally you can see it, 'cause it doesn't just all of a sudden go like that.

   26. AAAli Abdaal1:09:41

       Yeah.

   27. RWRobin Waite1:09:41

       It starts to sort of tail off. So I'm, I'm a big fan of, like, bootstrapping businesses as best you possibly can.

   28. AAAli Abdaal1:09:47

       Bootstrapping, what does that mean?

   29. RWRobin Waite1:09:48

       Like, keep, keep your expenses as low as you possibly can do. Be really conscientious about where, where and who you're spending your money with.

   30. AAAli Abdaal1:09:57

       Mm.
9. 1:18:18 – 1:25:52

   How long does it take to make money?

   1. AAAli Abdaal1:18:18

      stuff that we've gone through so far, kind of figuring out the business model, identifying the target market, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, would that happen in, like, one coaching session with you? Or like what, what, what's the process for, like, uh, an ordinary person starting completely from scratch, and how, how long does it take to get them to a idea that they then take action on?

   2. RWRobin Waite1:18:34

      Yeah. I mean, it, it's like anything. Some- sometimes people get it in one session and, and away they go. Sometimes people... Everybody operates at different speeds, so sometimes it might be a three or a six or a 12-month journey which they've got to go through. And especially, like, one of the things we were talking about was running, running this as a side hustle.

   3. AAAli Abdaal1:18:51

      Yeah.

   4. RWRobin Waite1:18:51

      So if you've got a full-time job and you have less resources available, i.e. time-

   5. AAAli Abdaal1:18:55

      Yeah

   6. RWRobin Waite1:18:55

      ... obviously it's gonna take a bit, little bit longer potentially to achieve those goals. But, um, I, I, I did work with one client, um, who... Uh, so they joined Fearless on the Tuesday. We did a coaching call on the Wednesday. They had two sales calls on the Thursday and Friday.

   7. AAAli Abdaal1:19:11

      Yeah.

   8. RWRobin Waite1:19:12

      Um, and they doubled their investment that they paid me in that. So in four days they'd made double the money back-

   9. AAAli Abdaal1:19:20

      Nice

   10. RWRobin Waite1:19:20

       ... that they'd invested with me. So it can happen super fast. On the flip side of that, I worked with a, um, communications consultant, and she was very, she was very honest up front. She was like, "I've got some money to save. I'm not desperate for clients. I've got one specific client I want to work with." Um, so she was in the educational space. Uh, she wanted to work with UCAS and, um, that, that was like her dream client. And so she did some other bits on the side as and when they came in, but it was effortless, organic. Um, and it took a year, but eventually she closed 180 grand contract. So, um, in her words, it was worth the wait.

   11. AAAli Abdaal1:19:57

       Yeah.

   12. RWRobin Waite1:19:57

       You know? And that was when she'd been doing sort of previously sort of day rate at like 200 pounds, 250 pounds a day to then get 180 grand contract. It was life-changing. You know?

   13. AAAli Abdaal1:20:07

       Yeah.

   14. RWRobin Waite1:20:07

       That was the, the catalyst for her, um, communi- you know, her communications consultancy then to go on and get bigger and better clients off the back of that.

   15. AAAli Abdaal1:20:15

       Nice. So, okay, question. Let's say we'd taken the conversation towards the relationship thingy. Um, we went down this route of, like, what's the, what's the transformation you can get them in what amount of time?

   16. RWRobin Waite1:20:27

       Yeah.

   17. AAAli Abdaal1:20:28

       And I just kind of went with that because you pushed me in, in kind of in that direction. But now I think about it, what is wrong with just charging hourly?

   18. RWRobin Waite1:20:34

       Okay. So-

   19. AAAli Abdaal1:20:35

       I'm, I'm teeing you up for a layup here. [laughs]

   20. RWRobin Waite1:20:36

       [laughs] Thank you.

   21. AAAli Abdaal1:20:37

       What's, what's the problem with hourly pricing?

   22. RWRobin Waite1:20:39

       Uh, so-

   23. AAAli Abdaal1:20:39

       Or like a day rate. That seems cool.

   24. RWRobin Waite1:20:40

       Was... The, the... I mean, I, I, I did a video about this, that I, I actually truly believe that hourly rate charging is unethical, right? And the reasons for this is, so imagine if you did want to go and get a website done, for example. Uh, well, m- maybe, maybe you're, you're doing a beauty parade, and there's three web designers, okay? So web designer number one comes along, Ali, and he says to you, "Right, I can build you a website. I'll do everything you want to do. Um, it's gonna take me 10 hours. Um, uh, and I'll charge you 100 pounds an hour for it." So about 1,000 pounds.

   25. AAAli Abdaal1:21:09

       Sure.

   26. RWRobin Waite1:21:09

       And you think, "Okay, cool."

   27. AAAli Abdaal1:21:11

       Yeah.

   28. RWRobin Waite1:21:11

       Uh, so he goes away. What he forgot to tell you, though, was he's not been doing it for very long.

   29. AAAli Abdaal1:21:14

       Mm.

   30. RWRobin Waite1:21:15

       Uh, he's not particularly good at it. Uh, because he's not charging enough, he's taken on too many clients. So he comes back eventually, about five months later, um, with a bit of a hacked together sort of website. It doesn't have the blog or the shopping cart on there that he promised you. And what do you say? "Where's my blog and my shopping cart?"
10. 1:25:52 – 1:28:02

    You are not your business

    1. RWRobin Waite1:25:52

       of no, fear of rejection. They, they... I mean, it's a human instinct. We, we're, we're herd animals at the end of the day, pack animals. We like to be accepted. So if we hear the word no, we take it as a massive rejection.

    2. AAAli Abdaal1:26:05

       Hmm.

    3. RWRobin Waite1:26:05

       Right? But what, what are they actually saying no to?

    4. AAAli Abdaal1:26:08

       They're saying no to the offer.

    5. RWRobin Waite1:26:10

       Yeah. Saying no-

    6. AAAli Abdaal1:26:11

       Yeah

    7. RWRobin Waite1:26:11

       ... to the offer, which is attached to... Is it attached to the person or the business?

    8. AAAli Abdaal1:26:15

       It's attached to the business.

    9. RWRobin Waite1:26:15

       Attached to the business.

    10. AAAli Abdaal1:26:16

        Yeah.

    11. RWRobin Waite1:26:16

        Right? And this is where you get into, like, j- just a re- a really simple model of how to, um- When things aren't going to plan in your business, normally it's because things aren't going to plan with you.

    12. AAAli Abdaal1:26:31

        Hmm.

    13. RWRobin Waite1:26:31

        As the royal you, not just you, Ali, but the royal you. So imagine we've got Ali over here, and we've got Ali's business over here. If Ali's value systems are all over the place, his relationship is up or down, he's just having a bad day, and he walks into the office, and those two things are attached-

    14. AAAli Abdaal1:26:46

        Yep

    15. RWRobin Waite1:26:46

        ... what's going on?

    16. AAAli Abdaal1:26:48

        Yeah.

    17. RWRobin Waite1:26:48

        The business is having a wobble as well. But what the business needs is, um, solid foundations. So all the things which you've been through with your coaches and mentors, the growth journey been in your business, it's all about building solid foundations.

    18. AAAli Abdaal1:27:04

        Hmm.

    19. RWRobin Waite1:27:05

        Um, having a team in who understand what their roles and responsibilities are, systems and processes, like SOPs, standard operating procedures, all of that sort of stuff. Um, um, and the key thing is as well that, um, your business's, um, oxygen is money. It needs a good income to provide security. That's like the, the walls, if you like, and the roof going on the top to protect it. Um, and, um, what it needs is, so you can have all of your wobbles as a business owner going, going on over here, but when you do show up to, for work, for business, like you're a rock for your business-

    20. AAAli Abdaal1:27:43

        Yep

    21. RWRobin Waite1:27:43

        ... and then you switch off your iPad or your laptop or whatever at the end of the day at 5:00, and then you can carry on having your wobbles over here.

    22. AAAli Abdaal1:27:49

        Hmm.

    23. RWRobin Waite1:27:49

        Like the business... So when somebody says no, they just don't get the value that your business offers. It's, it's not personal.

    24. AAAli Abdaal1:27:56

        Yeah.

    25. RWRobin Waite1:27:57

        It's not an insult. It's not anything.

    26. AAAli Abdaal1:27:59

        Hmm.

    27. RWRobin Waite1:27:59

        It's the business which they have a problem with.

11. 1:28:02 – 1:39:54

    Overcoming sales resistance

    1. AAAli Abdaal1:28:02

       I love it. Okay. So I've got my business connection catalyst, and I've managed to land one free workshop at like a consulting firm of, of some description, and because I listened to the Daniel Priestley interview on Ali Abdaal's Deep Dive podcast, I chose not to charge for that workshop so, 'cause I wanted to get my foot in the door-

    2. RWRobin Waite1:28:22

       Awesome

    3. AAAli Abdaal1:28:22

       ... 'cause l- everything is downstream of lead generation, and I've got like 15 people in a room. They've showed up. They've, their arms are folded. They're a bit skeptical. They're like, "Ugh," you know, "What, what is this rel- connection catalyst BS?" And because I know my shit, I prepared my talk, I've prepared-

    4. RWRobin Waite1:28:39

       Yeah

    5. AAAli Abdaal1:28:39

       ... my PowerPoint and my slides. I take them through the seven-part method. I may have read Russell Bron- Bronson's book, Expert Secrets-

    6. RWRobin Waite1:28:44

       Yep

    7. AAAli Abdaal1:28:44

       ... which talks about how, exactly how to do this. And then what do I do at the end of it when it comes to like telling people about my thing?

    8. RWRobin Waite1:28:53

       Uh, well, fir- first mistake is you waited till the end of your presentation to tell them about what your, your next, the next step is.

    9. AAAli Abdaal1:28:59

       Oh, okay. Interesting.

    10. RWRobin Waite1:29:00

        So, uh, like d- do you not get the ick whenever... We've all sat in these presentations, right? Workshops, conferences-

    11. AAAli Abdaal1:29:06

        Yeah

    12. RWRobin Waite1:29:06

        ... where the speaker is like building up to this crescendo, this offer.

    13. AAAli Abdaal1:29:11

        Yeah.

    14. RWRobin Waite1:29:11

        And, and they get to the end of it, and then they start talking about their value ladder. "Oh, we, we normally sell it for this, but we're gonna, today it's, we're gonna knock down the price, but we're gonna sell it." And we all get the brp. We don't like-

    15. AAAli Abdaal1:29:23

        Yeah

    16. RWRobin Waite1:29:23

        ... that bit, right? So put the offer at the start of the presentation.

    17. AAAli Abdaal1:29:27

        Okay.

    18. RWRobin Waite1:29:27

        It's a bit like, um, because then they've got something that they can measure the value against, okay?

    19. AAAli Abdaal1:29:31

        Sure.

    20. RWRobin Waite1:29:31

        So at the start of the presentation, you're gonna do your, "Hey, it's great. Thank you so much all for showing up today. Massively appreciate it. We're gonna make this a really fun and interactive workshop. I've got seven really cool steps which I'm gonna, um, take you through, and by the end of it, you'll know everything you need to go to get your dream partner. But just before we go into that, I just want to tell you a little bit more about me and what I do."

    21. AAAli Abdaal1:29:50

        Hmm.

    22. RWRobin Waite1:29:50

        So then we pivot into the pitch where you can tell people about your credibility, your authority, like why you, all of those sorts of things. And it's okay at that point to say, "Actually, we have a coaching program which takes people on this journey. So if you want to, if you go through the seven steps, you can take it pl- you know, away, you know, execute it if you think you can. But if you feel you want a bit of help, like get in touch with us." But one of the things I'm interested to learn about is how ready you all are in terms of like getting yourself out there in the dating game. So, um, we've created a very short 15-question questionnaire. I think you know where I might be going with this. Uh, um, uh, on Score app. Here's the QR code. Scan the QR code and just quickly take the quiz.

    23. AAAli Abdaal1:30:35

        Yeah.

    24. RWRobin Waite1:30:36

        And then you sit back two or three minutes. Everybody scans it. They go through.

    25. AAAli Abdaal1:30:39

        Yeah, people love taking quizzes.

    26. RWRobin Waite1:30:40

        Yeah. So, and, and-

    27. AAAli Abdaal1:30:41

        It's fun

    28. RWRobin Waite1:30:41

        ... what it tells them is you could, you could make it about, well, what type of da- data am I? So like a profile type quiz.

    29. AAAli Abdaal1:30:47

        Yeah.

    30. RWRobin Waite1:30:47

        Um, uh, it could be a, um, which area of the dating game do you feel is the worst that you might need to work on, you know?
12. 1:39:54 – 1:53:13

    Beating the fear-factor

    1. AAAli Abdaal1:39:55

       Love it. Yeah, I think one of the things that really helped simplify the whole business stuff for me is just appreciating that there are only a finite number of actual business models that you could follow. Um, there's, like, the service-based business model, where you are selling a service, and you do something, and someone finds the thing valuable, or you help them with something, they find the thing valuable, and they pay you for it. Cool. Or you make some kind of product, whether it's a physical product or a, like, online product, whatever the thing is, and someone finds the thing.

    2. RWRobin Waite1:40:24

       Yeah.

    3. AAAli Abdaal1:40:24

       They pay you for the thing, and that's all, all, all well and good. And then maybe on the side you have, like, a content business model, which is, like, you make the content, the platforms pay you for it, and then you sell something, either a good or a service [chuckles] to someone further-

    4. RWRobin Waite1:40:36

       Yeah

    5. AAAli Abdaal1:40:36

       ... down the line. And essentially outside those three, uh, then you start getting into complicated territory, like, for example, you know, day trading and the sort of trying to use money to make money type stuff. But, a- and, and, and it, it starts to get complicated.

    6. RWRobin Waite1:40:50

       Yeah.

    7. AAAli Abdaal1:40:50

       And I think when most people think of, "Oh, I want to make money on the internet, I want to start a business," they don't think, "Oh, I'll just sell a service or sell a product." They think, "Oh my God, there's all these different opportun- opt- options out there. There's, like, the day trading, the paid surveys, the this, the that, s- start a YouTube channel, become a TikToker. I guess I could, I don't know, start a web design agency." It, it feels like one option out of many, but whenever I speak to actual entrepreneurs, it's like they've built a service business or they've built a product business-

    8. RWRobin Waite1:41:16

       Yeah

    9. AAAli Abdaal1:41:16

       ... and that's kind of all there is to it. Are there, are there any other models that I'm missing? Like, how do you, how do you think about this, like simplifying this?

    10. RWRobin Waite1:41:22

        No, I mean, I, I suppose that you've got the passive income model. I think that's kind of what you're alluding to, and again, there's a lot of people who are sold the dream by influencers out there about, you know, building passive income. But passive income is based on, on active income.

    11. AAAli Abdaal1:41:34

        Yeah.

    12. RWRobin Waite1:41:34

        Where does active income f- come from? Products and services.

    13. AAAli Abdaal1:41:36

        Yeah, goods and services. [laughs]

    14. RWRobin Waite1:41:38

        Basically.

    15. AAAli Abdaal1:41:38

        Yeah. [laughs]

    16. RWRobin Waite1:41:39

        So it always, it alwa... You know, all the roads lead back to that, basically. So I, I, I don't, I don't believe there are any other models out there.

    17. AAAli Abdaal1:41:46

        Yeah.

    18. RWRobin Waite1:41:46

        Um, no.

    19. AAAli Abdaal1:41:48

        Nice. I like it.

    20. RWRobin Waite1:41:49

        [laughs]

    21. AAAli Abdaal1:41:49

        I think it really simplifies things. Okay. So I've been working with you, and we've said... and I've said to you, "Robin, right, you know, the, the, these are my slides for my talk at McKinsey." And you're like, "No, hang on, I think you should put your, put your, put your pitch at the start." You're telling me about this thing called ScoreApp, link down below, uh, where I can build a scorecard or a quiz or something. And I'm like, "Oh, cool." And then we're, like, practicing the, the presentation and stuff, and then I go to the session, and I'm like, you know, we, we, we check in afterwards. I message you on WhatsApp or something, and I'm like, "Robin, the session went great. I've already got three people at the end of it who came up to me and who said that they wanted my coaching services."

    22. RWRobin Waite1:42:23

        Yeah.

    23. AAAli Abdaal1:42:23

        And at that point, I felt scared, and I was like, "Ugh." Um, so I said I'd get back to them.

    24. RWRobin Waite1:42:28

        [laughs]

    25. AAAli Abdaal1:42:28

        So I've, so I've got their numbers.

    26. RWRobin Waite1:42:30

        Yeah.

    27. AAAli Abdaal1:42:30

        What, what happens next?

    28. RWRobin Waite1:42:31

        Uh, well, there's, there's nothing to be, um... So again, if that, if, if there's a fear factor around that transaction having to happen, well, let's see if we can eliminate that from the process a little bit. So what, what might be a bit of a compromise there that you might feel more comfortable with? Could it be something like, well, maybe let's just do a 30-minute chat, see if it's a good fit?

    29. AAAli Abdaal1:42:49

        Ooh, that sounds good.

    30. RWRobin Waite1:42:50

        So just-
13. 1:53:13 – 2:00:39

    Biggest mistakes entrepreneurs make

    1. AAAli Abdaal1:53:13

       Final couple of things I want to talk about. Uh, what are the, the biggest mistakes you see people make on, like, in the early stages of the entrepreneurial journey?

    2. RWRobin Waite1:53:21

       Um, so I mean, hour- hourly rates we've talked about. Um, comparisonitis, like, the moment you compare yourself to other people, like, again, it, it, um, you... things start to creep in, like imposter syndrome, you start to self-doubt, you start to, um... One of the things you mentioned, oh, you know, there's people out there, and they're doing it, and they're absolutely killing it, oh, so why me? Um, but that's actually gonna stop you from starting anything. Like, you'll... If, if you don't even... What, uh, what was the famous quote? "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

    3. AAAli Abdaal1:53:49

       Hmm.

    4. RWRobin Waite1:53:49

       Who was... I can't remember who that was by, but, um, it's that sort of philosophy. So the best thing you can do, everybody has something unique to offer. Um, like, think about it, you know, there's hundreds of thousands of business books out there, so why should I write another business book? Well, it's because it's, it's me. It's unique. You're writing a book, you know. There's gonna be something unique in that, that book, you know, that only you're able to kinda convey your message in your own unique way. Um, so com- comparisonitis is, like, the death of most entrepreneurs. Um, and it, it's... I get it. It's, it's quite hard, you know, to face up to the fact that there's gonna be challenges, there's potential failures, knock-backs. It's gonna be hard work and things like that. But, um, let's, let's not, like, stop before we've even got started, basically.

    5. AAAli Abdaal1:54:37

       One thing that people struggle with is, yeah, just to this point, you know, oh, you know, why would anyone sign up to my relationship coaching business? There are other relationship coaches out there with more experience who are charging less or maybe charging more, but whatever that thing might be. Um, and if I were starting this relationship business from scratch, I would be feeling a lot of imposter syndrome-

    6. RWRobin Waite1:54:58

       Yeah

    7. AAAli Abdaal1:54:58

       ... because I'd be like, "Yeah, I don't have all the clients that these people have."

    8. RWRobin Waite1:55:02

       Yeah.

    9. AAAli Abdaal1:55:02

       So how might I approach that if I were thinking about it?

    10. RWRobin Waite1:55:04

        How much do you want it to work?

    11. AAAli Abdaal1:55:06

        A lot. [chuckles]

    12. RWRobin Waite1:55:07

        A lot.

    13. AAAli Abdaal1:55:07

        Yeah.

    14. RWRobin Waite1:55:07

        Like, 100%, I'm all in. Like, let's just... I'm just gonna go for it anyway. I know that, I know that these things are there, these challenges, these worries are there, and they're real, but can I see myself just working through that?

    15. AAAli Abdaal1:55:18

        I guess the fear that would hold me back is this thing of what if it doesn't work?

    16. RWRobin Waite1:55:23

        Okay. Imagine in 12 months' time it's worked.

    17. AAAli Abdaal1:55:26

        That would my... Yeah, then my life would have changed.

    18. RWRobin Waite1:55:28

        Okay. And what... But in 12 months' time, what does that business look like? What's given you the confidence to, for it to have worked?

    19. AAAli Abdaal1:55:37

        If I can land even five clients in that time.

    20. RWRobin Waite1:55:38

        Five clients. Okay, so there we go, so five clients. Well, what's, what's the route to five clients? Just our first client, okay. So there's these little-

    21. AAAli Abdaal1:55:44

        Yeah. [chuckles]

    22. RWRobin Waite1:55:45

        ... um, they're, they're called OKRs, objectives and key results, right? Um, amazing book. Uh, it's i- it's like a library recommendation this week.

    23. AAAli Abdaal1:55:53

        Measure What Matters. [chuckles]

    24. RWRobin Waite1:55:54

        Measure What Matters, absolutely. Um, objectives and key results, that's what OKR stands for, and the idea is that you have one o- overarching objective, and then there's a series of key results which kind of lead you. They, they give you s- little signals that we know we're on track to achieve, achieve our objective. So if your, if your goal is to have a successful, you know, dating coaching business, um, which is making 25K a year and it's got 10 clients in it, well, step number one is a client. S- step number nought point five is to go and have one of those first five con- conversations, chats that we talked about. S- I should have started with step three. Step number nought point nought f- f- one is, like, to go and put yourself forward to go and do one of the talks. So it's like there's these little steps that you know that you're kind of on track. So reminding yourself, um, about the, the smallest first step. Uh, the second thing is also, it's... I call it the truths exercise. It's reminding yourself what you know to be true about you. So Ali, and this is, this is really hard as an exercise, but, um, list off 10 things that you know are true about you.

    25. AAAli Abdaal1:56:55

        Right now?

    26. RWRobin Waite1:56:55

        Yeah, right now.

    27. AAAli Abdaal1:56:56

        Okay. 10 things that I know are true about me.

    28. RWRobin Waite1:56:58

        Yeah.

    29. AAAli Abdaal1:56:59

        Are we talking... I mean, like, I'm a-

    30. RWRobin Waite1:57:00

        Anything. Life, business, doesn't matter
14. 2:00:39 – 2:15:40

    Robin's backstory and finding a work-life balance

    1. AAAli Abdaal2:00:39

       why is your business called Fearless? Like, what does that mean?

    2. RWRobin Waite2:00:41

       Uh, [laughs] there's a, there's a backstory. Uh, it was a ha- bit of a happy accident. So I was... I started off life as, uh, well, Robin Waite, and then Robin Waite the business coach. Um, and then I went to deliver a talk, uh, in front of about 60 people and s- somebody asked me, um, "What's the thing that stops people from achieving their goals?"

    3. AAAli Abdaal2:01:00

       Mm-hmm.

    4. RWRobin Waite2:01:00

       And I said, "Well, fear, basically." Business owners need to fear the little things in life, business, ever so slightly less that stop them achieve, achieving their goals.

    5. AAAli Abdaal2:01:09

       Hmm.

    6. RWRobin Waite2:01:10

       And one of my, [laughs] one of my best mates in business, he was, he was listening in the audience, and he literally stood up in the middle of my talk. He pointed at me and he went, "The Fearless business coach." And so f- that's where Fearless came from. It's about fearing those little things in life ever so slightly less that stop us from stepping out and achieving something. So, you know, a 60-second pitch. Again, there's, there's like... Worst-case scenario, you fluff it up and you walk out the room. Nobody cares.

    7. AAAli Abdaal2:01:37

       Yeah.

    8. RWRobin Waite2:01:37

       Right? It's just like you can't let those lit- tiny little things stop you.

    9. AAAli Abdaal2:01:42

       Nice. What's your biggest challenge right now when it comes to the business?

    10. RWRobin Waite2:01:46

        Ooh, great question. Um, so my biggest challenge is time, and this is a bit of, um... I didn't realize when I had kids how much of an impact it would have on my life.

    11. AAAli Abdaal2:02:00

        Yeah.

    12. RWRobin Waite2:02:00

        And not, not... I don't mean that in terms of, like, they take up loads of time. It's just, uh, e- there's a big shift in everything, like perspective-wise.

    13. AAAli Abdaal2:02:09

        Hmm.

    14. RWRobin Waite2:02:09

        Um, and so I kind of, with my businesses, I'd played all out. I was doing all-nighters. I was... all sorts of things.

    15. AAAli Abdaal2:02:15

        Mm-hmm.

    16. RWRobin Waite2:02:16

        Just, um, crazy stuff just to make my businesses work, and then, um, Pops and Soph come along, and immediately it's like life gets turned upside down, and you realize kind of really what the important things in life are about. And I know that's, like, totally clichéd, but equally, what, what that means is that, um, there has to be compromise along the way, and I've chosen to have a slower pace of life with my business in order to be able to make sure that I'm not compromising on the time that I get to spend with my girls.

    17. AAAli Abdaal2:02:43

        Hmm.

    18. RWRobin Waite2:02:44

        And that does mean a little bit my personal goals get... They're not, they're not eradicated. I think a lot of people make the mistake, you have kids and things just stop-

    19. AAAli Abdaal2:02:51

        Mm

    20. RWRobin Waite2:02:51

        ... like personally-wise. They're by no means gone, but the process of writing a book becomes that, just a little bit harder 'cause it takes a bit longer.

    21. AAAli Abdaal2:02:58

        Hmm.

    22. RWRobin Waite2:02:59

        You know, kids, uh, well, my kids, not everybody's kids do this hopefully, but my kids, for example, from the moment that you wake up in the morning, it's all about school runs- You know, it's, um, I get probably six hours during the day when they're at school, if I'm lucky, pick them up, tea time, bedtime, everything else, and right now they're not going to bed till 10:00 at night.

    23. AAAli Abdaal2:03:17

        Mm.

    24. RWRobin Waite2:03:17

        So it's not like I can hustle harder and go out to my office at 10:00 and write 1,000 words. It's like I'm beat at that point.

    25. AAAli Abdaal2:03:24

        Yeah.

    26. RWRobin Waite2:03:24

        And I think it's that fighting against the... I mean, this is why, I mean, I'm, I'm only 41. I'm a long way from being over the hill yet, but this is why footballers retire at 41. I've got that whole male body sort of slowing down thing at sort of 41, not feeling like I'm, I have to push myself harder to be at my optimal. So going to the gym, cycling and stuff, I have to work a little bit harder just to keep fit. Uh, I'm feeling quite tired, and I've got the pressures of kids. There's just this stuff that's just going on that, you know, that there's times when I look back on sort of my 20s when I was growing my business pre-kids, and I had all the time in the world. I don't think I optimized my time enough in my 20s-

    27. AAAli Abdaal2:04:02

        Yeah

    28. RWRobin Waite2:04:02

        ... to be set up right to have kids-

    29. AAAli Abdaal2:04:04

        Oh, interesting

    30. RWRobin Waite2:04:05

        ... in my 30s.

Episode duration: 2:26:09