Krissy Cela On Finding Your Vision, Mission and Why

Krissy Cela 0:00 Why are you setting yourself up to fail when there's so many people in this world already trying to do that for you? There's one of you in this world. You're in this world for a very short period of time. Whether you think it's long or not, it's short. Do something magical in it.

Ali Abdaal 0:15 Hello and welcome to Deep Dive, the podcast that delves into the minds of entrepreneurs, creators, and other inspiring people to uncover their journeys towards finding joy and fulfillment at work and in life. My name is Ali, and in each episode, I chat to my guests about the philosophies, strategies, and tools that have helped them along the path to living a life of happiness and meaning. In this week's episode of Deep Dive, I chat to Krissy Cela. Krissy first started posting fitness videos on Instagram and YouTube in 2017 while studying for a law degree. Fast-forward four years and Krissy has built a health and fitness empire with the mission to empower women across the world.

Krissy Cela 0:48 There's a huge problem in the world where women lack confidence.

Ali Abdaal 0:52 Okay.

Krissy Cela 0:52 Like, I perceive that as a problem.

Ali Abdaal 0:54 Krissy is co-founder of the Tone and Sculpt app, fitness clothing brand Oner Active, and an internationally respected personal trainer. In the episode, we have a very honest conversation about the foundations of leading multimillion-dollar brands, how to find your why, and her book

Ali Abdaal 1:08 Do This For You.

Krissy Cela 1:09 Do This For You to me means prioritizing yourself-

Ali Abdaal 1:13 Mm

Krissy Cela 1:13 ... and taking care of yourself and not putting yourself bottom on the list. And I think that people tend to really prioritize other people, their needs, how other people perceive them, that you tend to kind of neglect what ... how you perceive yourself and where you prioritize yourself.

Ali Abdaal 1:33 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:33 Um, and it's not even to do with other people. It's also to do with things. Like, students always prioritize their studying f- before themselves and their health, right? Moms prioritize their children over themselves. People prioritize their job-

Ali Abdaal 1:49 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:49 ... more than themselves. And it's like you come bottom to the list, and then by the time you wanna do something for yourself, you're too exhausted.

Ali Abdaal 1:57 Yeah, and there's a real sense of, uh, martyrdom almost in a way, where I think parents feel good that they're prioritizing their kids, and students feel like it's, it's almost a badge of honor to have pulled an all-nighter and to be prioritizing your studies-

Krissy Cela 2:09 Yeah

Ali Abdaal 2:09 ... for whatever reason. Um, I gue- I, I guess there is a balance there, right? Like, or how, h- how do you see, uh ... For, for, for example, for you, I imagine your, your business is fairly top of mind and you're thinking about it a lot.

Krissy Cela 2:22 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 2:22 But also there's the taking care of yourself aspect, and do you ever find that the two are sometimes conflicting for that top spot?

Krissy Cela 2:27 I think I've found a balance now. I've found a balance where it ... Like, I've, I've said to my entire team, you know, I've said to, to my personal assistant, like, no meetings before 10:00, and I've made that very clear to everyone. And I've said, "I wake up at 5:30 in the morning. I'm waking up at 5:30 in the morning to prioritize my health and myself." So I'm in the gym at 6:00 in the morning. I'm there training an hour, m- sometimes, depending, hour and a half if I really have the time, but maximum one hour in and out. You know, I'm eating my breakfast. I'm going through my emails. I'm reading some sort of book in the morning. So when I get to the office, I'm ready to give you m- my 110% attention.

Ali Abdaal 3:15 Mm.

Krissy Cela 3:16 Because had I not done all those things, I'm then going to have this constant battle of, oh my God, I haven't trained today. I haven't prioritized myself. I haven't done anything for myself. And then by the time I do go home, I'm so exhausted, I'm so overwhelmed, I just wanna lay on the, on the sofa and watch Netflix.

Ali Abdaal 3:34 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 3:34 And that, and that's not really doing something for me to bettering me.

Ali Abdaal 3:37 Yeah. So I guess you've got those four and a half hours in the morning to do-

Krissy Cela 3:40 Yeah

Ali Abdaal 3:40 ... the you stuff, and then you can focus fully, fully on the business.

Krissy Cela 3:43 Yeah. Like, even my commute is an hour, sometimes an hour and a half. So in my commute, you know, I tend to take my dog, Buttons, with me, so she's always on the train with me, and, you know, it's quite nice doing that together, but I'm always either reading something, listening to some sort of podcast. I'm, I'm getting myself mentally prepped for my team. My companies, as much as people think my companies are about me, they're not. My companies are about the people that drive the mission and the vision. Um, it's about the employees every single day coming to the office, working from home, dedicating their time to make this vision come true. So if I'm coming into the office expecting everybody else to be on their A game, I have to be on my A game, and I can't come in and be angry or emotional over, you know, just, just not be myself. And there has been too many moments I've done that, and it's caused a really big division in the company.

Ali Abdaal 4:42 Mm.

Krissy Cela 4:42 It really has, because I've come in thinking I can be the way I want to be. Well, no, I'm a leader. I have to be collective. I have to be calm. I have to, you know, prioritize my team over my own emotions, and I've learnt that the hard way.

Ali Abdaal 4:57 Ooh, interesting. Any

Ali Abdaal 5:00 ... Uh, w- was there one occasion in particular that, that helped you, helped you learn that lesson?

Krissy Cela 5:04 I don't think enough leaders actually speak about this. I think there's so many entrepreneurs and CEOs, leaders, whatever, and they come across like they have their shit together, right?

Ali Abdaal 5:16 Mm-hmm.

Krissy Cela 5:16 Like, they've just, like, they're the calmest people in the world, like they've got it all figured out, and the truth is every leader is different. There is no handbook to be given to how you should be as a leader. One thing you should always have is empathy for the team that you're working with, and one thing you should always have is patience. And I was never patient.

Ali Abdaal 5:40 Okay.

Krissy Cela 5:41 I ... When I started Tone and Sculpt or Oner Active, I was never, ever patient. Um, I was actually way too emotionally connected to both brands that I used to take everything personally.

Ali Abdaal 5:53 Okay.

Krissy Cela 5:54 And now as the years have gone on, especially with Tone and Sculpt because it's m- older than Oner Active- I have to take a step back and I have to go, "This has nothing to do with me. The mission and the vision is so much greater and bigger than any emotion I have."

Ali Abdaal 6:11 You talk a lot

Ali Abdaal 6:12 about vision and mission.

Krissy Cela 6:13 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 6:13 Um, when did you figure out what your vision, mission, and stuff was? And how did you figure that out?

Krissy Cela 6:18 Um-

Ali Abdaal 6:18 'Cause that's a bit, it's a big question. Like, it's a question of what do you wanna do with your life? Uh-

Krissy Cela 6:22 Yeah, I mean, look, it's not been till very recent that I'm 110% focused on that vision and mission now. At first, I was a bit like, "What is it? What? I know I'm, I wanna do something here, but I can't put my finger on it." I couldn't put my finger on it. All I knew and was certain on for years was I wanted to help women.

Ali Abdaal 6:50 Okay.

Krissy Cela 6:50 Like, I was certain on that thing.

Ali Abdaal 6:52 How did, how did you get certain on that? 'Cause that's also quite a... It's, it's not so specific, but it's, like, a, it- it- it's a, it's a very specific kind of, kind of dream.

Krissy Cela 7:00 Quite niche.

Ali Abdaal 7:00 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 7:01 Yeah. The reason being is when I started my Instagram and my YouTube, I was doing this for myself, right?

Ali Abdaal 7:08 Okay.

Krissy Cela 7:08 And then I was connecting with all these women globally saying, "I don't have time to go to the gym. I don't know what I'm doing. I feel so rejected, so neglected. I feel like I'm just letting myself down." And I realized there was such a need for women to come together, and there was such a need for fitness to be in women's lives. It was like, it was, it's a need.

Ali Abdaal 7:32 Mm.

Krissy Cela 7:32 Like, there's a, there's a huge problem in the world where women lack confidence. Like, I perceive that as a problem, and I perceive Tone and Sculpt as a solution-

Ali Abdaal 7:44 Okay

Krissy Cela 7:44 ... to that problem. So to me, I don't like the fact that there's so many women out there who are not body, body confident, who are not mentally confident. I don't like the fact that women don't know what to do in their fitness journey and feel really left, left out or alone.

Ali Abdaal 7:59 Mm-hmm.

Krissy Cela 8:00 That's a huge problem to me, because your health is the key to any form of success. I cannot stress that enough. Like, if you are not mentally and physically okay, it will trans- it will transpire into ev- every aspect of your life, your relationship, your work, your passion, your vision, everything. It will cloud you. That's why I say do this for you and prioritize yourself first, and then bring your best foot forward for everything else.

Ali Abdaal 8:26 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 8:27 So that's why I knew I wanted to help women, but I didn't know how I was gonna do it.

Ali Abdaal 8:30 Okay.

Krissy Cela 8:31 So when I launched the Tone and Sculpt app with my business partner, Jack, I sat down and I just said, "This is it. We are gonna make a fitness hub that is community-orientated first-

Ali Abdaal 8:46 Mm

Krissy Cela 8:47 ... then fitness-led secondary."

Ali Abdaal 8:49 Oh, interesting. Okay.

Krissy Cela 8:50 So that's why community is our vessel. It's our heartbeat. It's our core.

Ali Abdaal 8:56 Okay.

Krissy Cela 8:57 We d- every decision we make, we ask what would the community need and want first. Um, our core values, none of our core values hold a, um, profit-led value.

Ali Abdaal 9:08 Mm.

Krissy Cela 9:09 It's, our core values for Tone and Sculpt are actually the following: So long as there's women in the world, our business to make women feel confident and better their lives is not done.

Ali Abdaal 9:19 Mm.

Krissy Cela 9:20 Uh, the second one is actually more team-led. So it's we have to treat each and every sing- single team member with integrity and honesty and accountability.

Ali Abdaal 9:30 Mm.

Krissy Cela 9:30 Everyone's accountability for is with each other and with themselves. Third one is community-led, so our community is our driving force to everything that we do. So if they do not like something, then we won't do it.

Ali Abdaal 9:43 Mm.

Krissy Cela 9:43 It's as simple as that. Fourth one is customer support.

Ali Abdaal 9:47 Mm.

Krissy Cela 9:47 And fifth is innovation.

Ali Abdaal 9:50 Okay.

Krissy Cela 9:50 So profit is not even in our list.

Ali Abdaal 9:52 Interesting.

Krissy Cela 9:53 Profit is, like, the last thing we actually think about, and that's genuinely, we don't really, we don't even shove numbers down our employees' throats.

Ali Abdaal 10:01 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 10:01 We, we say, "Okay, there's women in this world. Your job here isn't done."

Ali Abdaal 10:05 Mm.

Krissy Cela 10:06 So I'm trying to build an organization, not just a social hub.

Ali Abdaal 10:09 Yeah. Interesting. Uh, I wanna ask you more about the values thing in a moment, uh, 'cause we're literally going through that sort of s- value stuff with our team now. 'Cause we've got, like, this week we hired seven people, so we're now on 19.

Krissy Cela 10:20 Wow.

Ali Abdaal 10:20 Uh-

Krissy Cela 10:20 Congratulations

Ali Abdaal 10:21 ... thank you.

Krissy Cela 10:22 Huge.

Ali Abdaal 10:22 Yeah. But e- ev- people are like, "You, you know, you make YouTube videos. Why do you need 19 people?" I'm like, "Well-

Krissy Cela 10:26 Uh

Ali Abdaal 10:26 ... you'd, you'd be surprised when you, when you draw out the org chart and you see all the holes, it, like-"

Krissy Cela 10:29 Yep.

Ali Abdaal 10:29 Um, but before we go there, uh, I wanna ask about the early days. So you were posting workout, workout

Ali Abdaal 10:35 videos on, on Instagram. Uh, what, what was the growth like? How did, how did things start growing in the very early days before you knew that this could become, like, a career for you?

Krissy Cela 10:43 Yeah, I mean, huge growth. Huge growth. And like I said, no one was really doing what I was doing and a handful of creators were doing back in the day.

Ali Abdaal 10:52 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 10:52 And, you know, if you go on YouTube about 10 years ago, it was heavily bodybuilder orientated.

Ali Abdaal 10:59 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 10:59 So you had people trying to be bikini bodies and, and people were genuinely selling bikini body guides, and they were selling bikini programs, and it was heavily based on being on stage as well and being a professional bodybuilder. And I just didn't f- fit in-

Ali Abdaal 11:18 Mm

Krissy Cela 11:18 ... 'cause I was like, "Oh, my God, I just wanna go to the gym to escape my reality." Like, literally, I'm so sick of my life, I just wanna go somewhere and do something for myself.

Ali Abdaal 11:27 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 11:27 And that's when I started posting, and all my captions were like, "Hi," like, "I went to the gym today, and I did a few squats and I felt so much better. How about you do it, too?" And it, it was very, like, it, I s- I, it was very premature, and it was very, like, it was, it was very, like, vulnerable-

Ali Abdaal 11:47 Mm

Krissy Cela 11:47 ... and it was very authentic. It was, it was genuine. And I remember when I was growing, I was a waitress at the time and a law student, and I grew to about 120,000 followers, and Women's Best approached me. Women's Best is the biggest female, uh, supplement brand in the world.

Ali Abdaal 12:05 Mm.

Krissy Cela 12:05 Um, they're huge. Absolutely massive now. Like, I think their evaluation will be close to a billion. So they're, they're massive.

Ali Abdaal 12:14 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 12:15 Um- And they approached me, and I got an email saying, "Hi, we love your Instagram. Like, we'd love to work with you on a collaborative basis." And I said, "I've never really tried your supplements."

Ali Abdaal 12:26 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 12:27 "Um, I'll give them a go, and I'll see what's what" because I'd never done a collaboration before.

Ali Abdaal 12:32 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 12:33 So I didn't know how it worked. I ha- I've never had a manager.

Ali Abdaal 12:36 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 12:36 Till this day, I don't have a manager.

Ali Abdaal 12:37 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 12:38 Um, so they sent me supplements. After three, four months of testing them, seeing what I like, what I didn't like, giving them honest feedback, my problem is I'm a bit too honest for my own good. I need to zip my mouth sometimes, but hey ho. And I was like, "Yeah, I really like it. Like, this is, you're onto something good here. I, I like it." And I was finding myself having the supplements more often than I would because I enjoyed it, and it was there to supplement the diet I'd already had, right? I didn't rely on it. And then Women's Best gave me enough funds monthly to quit my job.

Ali Abdaal 13:12 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 13:12 I still remained a law student. I s- when I start something, I need to follow it through.

Ali Abdaal 13:17 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 13:17 I just, I'm just like that. And I started posting more often. Like, they supported me, you know? And at that time, I'd reached about 600,000 followers, and Gymshark came knocking on-

Ali Abdaal 13:30 Hmm

Krissy Cela 13:30 ... on my door. And I actually rejected the first contract.

Ali Abdaal 13:35 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 13:35 I didn't wanna work with them.

Ali Abdaal 13:36 Why?

Krissy Cela 13:37 Um, I didn't really understand it a b- at the start.

Ali Abdaal 13:41 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 13:42 And then when I got to know the brand a bit more and then I got to know, you know, that they had a vision too, you know, they had a mission too, um, I started. I started working with them. It was short-lived, but I'm so thankful for the opportunity. I'm so thankful that they gave me the opportunity to travel the world with them-

Ali Abdaal 14:04 Hmm

Krissy Cela 14:04 ... and meet so many community members, and I'm so thankful for the learnings, so thankful for the opportunities that they gave me with photo shoots, with meeting other peers, with meeting such incredible minds. And, you know, even though it was short-lived, every opportunity is a absolute blessing, and it makes me so happy to see brands genuinely succeed at the rate that they have-

Ali Abdaal 14:29 Yeah

Krissy Cela 14:29 ... when I started when they were quite small.

Ali Abdaal 14:31 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 14:32 So it just, it's inspiring 'cause it's like if they can do it, we can do it. That's the way I perceive it.

Ali Abdaal 14:40 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 14:41 And yeah, the growth was substantial. I, I hit a million followers within, I think, two years.

Ali Abdaal 14:46 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 14:47 Um, then straight into two million followers a year after. Now I'm to 2.5.

Ali Abdaal 14:52 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 14:53 The growth is definitely different because the market is utterly saturated now.

Ali Abdaal 14:58 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 14:58 Um, and TikTok has obviously just come in-

Ali Abdaal 15:01 Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 15:02 ... from God knows where. Um, but that's why I can't stress enough that I'm not chasing the growth.

Ali Abdaal 15:08 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 15:09 I am chasing the fact that there is only one Krissy Cela. Do you know what I'm trying to say?

Ali Abdaal 15:15 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 15:15 Like, I'm gonna share with you my own thoughts and my own vision. If you like it, great.

Ali Abdaal 15:20 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 15:20 If you don't, that's no problem. But I'm not gonna follow trends anymore. It's too draining for me.

Ali Abdaal 15:25 In the early days, let's say k- kind of going from like, like, like, you know, zero, zero to 100,000, was it a case that you were sort of just, just sort of posting stuff because you felt like it, or did you feel this like-

Krissy Cela 15:35 Yeah, I felt like it.

Ali Abdaal 15:35 Okay.

Krissy Cela 15:35 No, no, I felt no pressure.

Ali Abdaal 15:36 Okay.

Krissy Cela 15:37 No pressure. I felt like it. I really enjoyed it. I was posting daily.

Ali Abdaal 15:41 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 15:41 I was posting every day at 5:00.

Ali Abdaal 15:43 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 15:43 Everyone knew what they were getting. It was a workout video or it was a picture. It was some sort of food as well. Everyone knew what they were getting. Like, they knew what they were getting. I was posting regularly. I still post regularly now. I've never stopped not posting regularly, but it was just very authentic.

Ali Abdaal 16:01 Okay.

Krissy Cela 16:01 And then-

Ali Abdaal 16:01 It wasn't chasing some kind of numbers or thinking-

Krissy Cela 16:02 No, I wasn't chasing anything

Ali Abdaal 16:04 ... ooh, I could get to a million if I did more workout videos or-

Krissy Cela 16:06 No. Not, not then.

Ali Abdaal 16:07 Okay. Right.

Krissy Cela 16:07 It wasn't until I probably hit about 300,000 followers-

Ali Abdaal 16:10 Yeah

Krissy Cela 16:10 ... where I was like, hmm, like, there's substantial growth here. I think at one point I grew, I was growing like 10,000 a day.

Ali Abdaal 16:18 Bloody hell. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 16:19 Yeah. It was ridic- it was ridic- it was honestly ridiculous growth.

Ali Abdaal 16:21 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 16:22 And, and yeah, I mean, I was ch- I was chasing the growth then.

Ali Abdaal 16:27 Okay.

Krissy Cela 16:28 So then some of the decisions were very growth led instead of authenticity and being true to myself led.

Ali Abdaal 16:34 Okay. Such as?

Krissy Cela 16:35 Such as, like, oh my God, there was a s- a sta- a phase where peers would ask each other to repost each other's pictures on their stories-

Ali Abdaal 16:45 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 16:45 ... to gain more followers or like for like on, and you would ask like big accounts to post you.

Ali Abdaal 16:50 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 16:51 It was very heavily numbers driven, and I lost sight completely 'cause I was just like the bigger I am, the more brands will wanna work with me, the more... Guess what? I don't work with any other brand but my own and Women's Best, and I've been working with Women's Best for five years. I don't do any paid collaborations.

Ali Abdaal 17:09 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 17:09 I've even told my PR team, "Don't give me paid collaborations. I don't wanna do it. I'm not interested in it."

Ali Abdaal 17:14 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 17:15 Even if they give me a million, I'm not interested in it, unless it's a brand that I've, like-

Ali Abdaal 17:19 Yeah

Krissy Cela 17:19 ... lived by for, like, five, six, seven, 10 years of my life.

Ali Abdaal 17:22 In those early days, as, you know, you go from being kind of waitress plus law student into suddenly having this enormous following on the internet, and, and it's within the field of, like, being a woman and doing the fitness stuff. W- that's gotta be a lot of-

Krissy Cela 17:37 Pressure?

Ali Abdaal 17:37 There's gotta be a lot of baggage, pressure. Like, what was, what, what was that experience like? 'Cause you were like a normal u- a normal university student who seemed to have stumbled into this, like, incredible growth.

Krissy Cela 17:47 I think it's a lot of pressure because I was young.

Ali Abdaal 17:49 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 17:49 I still am young, but, you know, when it all started I was, I was, was early 20s. Like, an early 20-year-old is, like, doing things they'll regret when they're 30, or you know what I mean? Or talk about when they're 50 and laugh about it with their friends. And at uni I was a bit of a loner.

Ali Abdaal 18:06 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 18:07 I was a bit of a loner. I had probably like one or two friends. Um- I remember this girl called Juliana, she was so lovely and, like, always so welcoming. But I just kept myself to myself. I was working full time, I was trying to get my law degree, and if I wasn't working full time, I was trying to grow my own personal brand and, you know, trying to grow my community. So I was so focused because it didn't feel like work, it felt like a passion. University to me was actually almost like my escape-

Ali Abdaal 18:40 Hmm

Krissy Cela 18:41 ... from the career I was trying to build-

Ali Abdaal 18:44 Yeah

Krissy Cela 18:44 ... and the platform I was trying to build.

Ali Abdaal 18:45 That was your side hustle. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 18:46 Yeah. It was a lot of pressure, but I'm so thankful that everything has happened the way it has happened.

Ali Abdaal 18:52 Okay.

Krissy Cela 18:53 I'm so thankful for the mistakes I made with Tone and Sculpt in the early years. I'm so thankful for, you know, being in a relationship with Jack, who is my business p- partner still till this day, and I was with him for five years. We were engaged, it didn't work, but we still sustain Tone and Sculpt together, and we have so much respect for each other. Like, he, he is one of a kind, you know? And yes, it didn't work romantically, but we share the same vision and mission.

Ali Abdaal 19:20 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 19:21 So our emotions come secondary-

Ali Abdaal 19:23 Yeah

Krissy Cela 19:23 ... for one another because we have a bigger role in this universe.

Ali Abdaal 19:27 Hmm. Were you ever worried about what your uni friends would say about the fact that you were posting workout videos and-

Krissy Cela 19:33 No

Ali Abdaal 19:33 ... posting yourself on the internet?

Krissy Cela 19:34 I didn't give a shit, sorry.

Ali Abdaal 19:35 Oh. How, how did you-

Krissy Cela 19:36 [laughs] I didn't give a shit.

Ali Abdaal 19:38 So that's like-

Krissy Cela 19:39 I was like-

Ali Abdaal 19:40 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 19:41 I'm gonna, I'm not gonna, I'm not even gonna lie. Like, I don't care. I don't care what, I didn't care what my team thought of me when I was a waitress and posting Instagram videos. I didn't care what my professors thought of me, what my university friends thought me. I didn't care. Like, I loved it so much-

Ali Abdaal 20:01 Yeah

Krissy Cela 20:01 ... that I didn't care. Like, my dad is Balkan, right? My dad comes from Albania. He's a strict dad. When you're around my dad growing up, you couldn't be wearing miniskirts-

Ali Abdaal 20:11 Hmm

Krissy Cela 20:11 ... and you couldn't be, like, doing things like that, right? So for my dad to go on Instagram to see his daughter in shorts, like Nike Pro shorts squatting, and it was a bit much for him. Like, it t- like he hated it. He sat me down, he goes, "You need to stop. Like, this is, this is not good for our, for our family." And I was like, "No, I don't care what anyone has to say." Like, I'm so sick and tired of people trying to dictate who I'm gonna be.

Ali Abdaal 20:41 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 20:41 And for so long, I let my previous boyfriend do that.

Ali Abdaal 20:45 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 20:45 Like, the one that cheated on me, for so many years dictate how I felt, who I was gonna be, how I should be treated. Since then I've thought, "No way. It happened once, I'm never letting that happen again." Not by friends, not by family, not by-

Ali Abdaal 20:59 Yeah

Krissy Cela 20:59 ... coworkers, not b- not by f- like, partners. Not, not by nothing.

Ali Abdaal 21:04 That's a pretty remarkable level of confidence to be able to do all of that-

Krissy Cela 21:08 I just, I-

Ali Abdaal 21:08 ... and just, like, you know

Krissy Cela 21:08 ... I've reached that level where I'm like, "If you don't like me-"

Ali Abdaal 21:12 Yeah

Krissy Cela 21:12 "... it's no problem. If you do, phenomenal, let's, like, get dinner together." The bottom line is we should never, ever, ever judge someone for trying to put good in the world.

Ali Abdaal 21:20 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 21:20 Like, I wasn't doing anything wrong.

Ali Abdaal 21:22 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 21:22 I wa- I'm genuinely trying to put good in this world. I'm trying so hard daily to build two brands that prevail women's confidence.

Ali Abdaal 21:32 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 21:32 That when you put Oner Active on, you're like, "Shit, I look good."

Ali Abdaal 21:36 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 21:37 "I feel good, I look good." I'm trying to build a platform with Tone and Sculpt where a woman's confidence just skyrockets. I'm trying to put good in this world. I'm not, I'm not doing anything wrong, so if someone wants to judge that, that's on them, not me.

Ali Abdaal 21:52 So you s- so you said earlier on that, um, one of the issues that you wanna kinda solve is women's

Ali Abdaal 21:58 underconfidence.

Krissy Cela 21:59 Yes.

Ali Abdaal 22:00 I, I imagine a lot of people in your community are in that sort of beginner stage where they can't imagine having that level of confidence where you can just, I don't know, post a workout video and not care what, what other people think.

Krissy Cela 22:10 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 22:11 What do you think are sort of the... And, you, you've got a chapter in the book where you talk about this, but what would you say are the, are the steps for someone to get to that level of confidence where they're comfortable putting themselves out there in, in that capacity? And I guess I'm asking-

Krissy Cela 22:23 Good question

Ali Abdaal 22:23 ... 'cause, 'cause a lot of people who, who, who watch this channel and, and, and listen to the podcast, they're interested in becoming creators in some capacity, but the number one question when we ask people, "What's your biggest challenge with being a creator?"

Krissy Cela 22:33 Confidence.

Ali Abdaal 22:34 It's, "I'm scared of what my friends and family will think. I'm scared of what my mom's gonna say, scared of what my cousins will think, scared of what people in school are gonna say or at uni or my job. I'm scared I'm not gonna get a job 10 years down the line when people discover my, my YouTube channel." All of these fears around what other people will think. How... Yeah, how-

Krissy Cela 22:49 Uh.

Ali Abdaal 22:50 [laughs] Any, any thoughts? [laughs]

Krissy Cela 22:52 I think, um, if you automatically doubt what you wanna do or you wanna put fear as your main driven emotion to what you're doing, you're setting yourself up to fail.

Ali Abdaal 23:03 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 23:03 Like, you've already kind of just... It's almost like when people start their fitness journeys, right? They go, "Oh, yeah, I'll try it, but I know it's not gonna work."

Ali Abdaal 23:11 Oh, yeah.

Krissy Cela 23:11 Like, you've kind of... And then when it doesn't work because for whatever reason, they go, "Oh, see? I knew, I knew it wouldn't work, so yeah, this is how it... There's no point in me doing it ever again."

Ali Abdaal 23:21 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 23:21 You're already setting yourself up to fail. Like, why are you doing that to yourself? Why are you setting yourself up to fail when there's so many people in this world already trying to do that for you, right?

Ali Abdaal 23:35 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 23:35 There's already other people in the world judging you. Why are you going to add more unnecessary pressure to yourself, right? There's one of you in this world. You're in this world for a very short period of time. Whether you think it's long or not, it's short, right?

Ali Abdaal 23:49 Hmm.

Krissy Cela 23:50 Do something magical in it. Do something so extraordinary that it makes other people want to do it too. That it makes other people wanna go, "Damn, I wanna give that a go because she did it or he did it." And yes, you're gonna have judgment, so be prepared for it. Like, people will say, "What are you doing?" Like, my own dad sat me down and was like, "What are you doing?" Like, it's embarrassing. I'll never forget that conversation.

Ali Abdaal 24:16 Mm-hmm.

Krissy Cela 24:16 Now he's living his best life 'cause I bought him a home and new teeth. Like-

Ali Abdaal 24:20 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 24:24 Like, you just have to go for it. You have to go for that leap. You have to get that-

Ali Abdaal 24:30 Mm

Krissy Cela 24:30 ... that, that passion in you, and drive yourself forward because it's such a waste if you don't.

Ali Abdaal 24:36 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 24:37 And also, like, what would you tell your kids?

Ali Abdaal 24:40 Mm.

Krissy Cela 24:40 Like, if my daughter came to me and was like, "Mom, I'm gonna start posting on Instagram. I don't know how it's gonna go, but I'm just gonna give it a go," I'd be like, "Go for it. Do you want me to go record you?" [laughs]

Ali Abdaal 24:51 Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 24:52 Go for it. And people are forgetting now, like, there's TikTok stars making millions a year and, and making careers for life, and there's YouTube stars, like, literally going to f- you know, the Met Gala, whatever it's called-

Ali Abdaal 25:08 Mm

Krissy Cela 25:09 ... and sitting down with some of the most influential people in the world. These are now jobs. Like, they're real jobs.

Ali Abdaal 25:16 Mm.

Krissy Cela 25:16 People unfortunately don't want to become lawyers anymore.

Ali Abdaal 25:20 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 25:20 They want to become a trainer online, helping wi- millions of women.

Ali Abdaal 25:25 So, uh, s- speaking of the law thing, so you, so you finish your law degree-

Krissy Cela 25:28 Yeah

Ali Abdaal 25:28 ... um, but you decided to not do the lawyer thing 'cause you had a- all, all this other stuff going for you. Um, w- was that a difficult choice that you made at the time-

Krissy Cela 25:36 No

Ali Abdaal 25:36 ... to not pursue this thing?

Krissy Cela 25:37 [laughs] No.

Ali Abdaal 25:38 Okay.

Krissy Cela 25:39 I was so s- I don't know where this confidence comes from. One day someone's gonna come knock it the hell down, but I was so confident.

Ali Abdaal 25:47 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 25:48 I was so like, "Uh, this isn't what I wanna do. Like, why am I even entertaining it? Like, my job on

Krissy Cela 25:57 this planet, my duty on this planet is to help women."

Ali Abdaal 26:00 Okay. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 26:01 That's, that's, that's my, that's my driving force, to help women.

Ali Abdaal 26:06 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 26:06 So I'm not gonna entertain anything else. Like, I haven't entertained anything else. I'm so tunnel vision.

Ali Abdaal 26:11 So okay, so it's, it's, it's the early days. The Instagram account is grow- is growing. You've got the deal from Women's Best.

Krissy Cela 26:17 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 26:17 And how, how did you decide the next step was to do Tone and Sculpt?

Krissy Cela 26:22 I gained my personal training qualification because I ch- I thought to myself, "If I'm putting this out on social and I'm essentially telling people how I live my life, I wanna be able to advise people further-

Ali Abdaal 26:34 Yeah

Krissy Cela 26:34 ... and be well more educated and rounded." So I got my level two and my level three qualification, so I was all qualified in that field, and the thing is of me, I'm quite addicted to learning.

Ali Abdaal 26:45 Mm.

Krissy Cela 26:46 So even outside of school, I was actually a pain in the ass in school.

Ali Abdaal 26:49 Okay. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 26:49 No teacher liked me but one. So, no, they actually never thought I'd get to uni.

Ali Abdaal 26:53 [laughs] Oh, okay.

Krissy Cela 26:55 So, yeah, here I am.

Ali Abdaal 26:55 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 26:56 But whatever. I, I, I did it to myself. But anyway, I was always addicted to learning, but in my own way. I never liked being told what to do.

Ali Abdaal 27:04 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 27:04 So I hated that. So I always liked learning, though. I really enjoyed it. So I started learning about fitness and how the body works and nutrition, and just was so intrigued by it that I was like, "You know what? I'm gonna build an app."

Ali Abdaal 27:21 Okay. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 27:22 "I'm gonna, I'm gonna build an app."

Ali Abdaal 27:24 And d- did you have, like, a coding background or anything like that?

Krissy Cela 27:26 No, no, no, no, no.

Ali Abdaal 27:27 How, how did that-

Krissy Cela 27:28 So at the time-

Ali Abdaal 27:29 It's a pretty random thing to just decide to do, right? Or-

Krissy Cela 27:31 Yeah, yeah. No, we had PDFs. We had, um-

Ali Abdaal 27:33 Okay

Krissy Cela 27:33 ... so it started PDF, then digital-

Ali Abdaal 27:36 Mm

Krissy Cela 27:36 ... digital p- platform.

Ali Abdaal 27:37 We're gonna take a very quick break to introduce our sponsor for this episode, and that is Brilliant. I've been using Brilliant for the last two plus years. They're a fantastic platform for learning maths, science, and computer science with engaging and interactive online courses. And the great thing about Brilliant is that they really teach stuff from a very first principles-based approach. It's almost like the way that we were taught in places like Oxford and Cambridge, where you learn a concept and then you apply the concept to an interesting problem, rather than just being spoon-fed stuff like we initially learnt in school. My favorite courses on Brilliant are the computer science ones. Uh, as some of you guys might know, I was torn between applying to medicine and computer science. I went for medicine in the end, but I always had an affinity to computer science, and taking the courses on Brilliant, like their Introduction to Algorithms and their Introduction to Python, really helped me get more of a grasp of computer science than I've ever had before. It's also great for learning how to code, which is an incredibly useful skill to have, especially if you wanna start a business, and I attribute, like, 98% of my business success to the fact that I learned how to code when I was in secondary school. So if you wanna check out the courses on math, science, and computer science, then head over to brilliant.org/deepdive, and the first 200 people to sign up with that link will get 20% off of the annual premium subscription. So thank you, Brilliant, for sponsoring this episode.

Krissy Cela 28:44 I built my app, um, with a third party.

Ali Abdaal 28:47 Oh, how did that go? [laughs]

Krissy Cela 28:49 Yes, with a third party.

Ali Abdaal 28:50 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 28:50 Um, and they tried to fuck me over big time.

Ali Abdaal 28:53 Oh, interesting.

Krissy Cela 28:54 So they tried to take the app away-

Ali Abdaal 28:56 Yeah

Krissy Cela 28:56 ... and basically say that they own everything, and that I only own the content.

Ali Abdaal 29:02 Okay.

Krissy Cela 29:03 Who wants to own a content on an app?

Ali Abdaal 29:04 Yeah. No. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 29:05 You wanna own the data-

Ali Abdaal 29:06 Yeah

Krissy Cela 29:06 ... and the code. So if you're out there building an app, data and code and interface is the most important thing that you can have, not just the content you put in, like the pic- pretty pictures and the workouts, you know?

Ali Abdaal 29:18 Mm-hmm.

Krissy Cela 29:19 So after, like, 50 grand in legal fees-

Ali Abdaal 29:22 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 29:23 ... and one relationship broken-

Ali Abdaal 29:25 Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 29:25 ... mine, my fiance's, the app was officially ours, so mine and Jack's-

Ali Abdaal 29:29 So, uh, how-

Krissy Cela 29:30 ... 'cause it's completely owned by us now.

Ali Abdaal 29:32 Yeah. W- what was that like when you, when you first found out that they were trying to-

Krissy Cela 29:36 There was no official contract, and when the contract was given to me, with my background as a law student, I read through it and knew this was wrong.

Ali Abdaal 29:42 Okay.

Krissy Cela 29:43 And I just would not agree to the terms.

Ali Abdaal 29:45 This was after they made the app already?

Krissy Cela 29:46 Mm-hmm.

Ali Abdaal 29:46 Oh, interesting. Okay.

Krissy Cela 29:48 The app was already made, already launched.

Ali Abdaal 29:50 Okay. And then they give you a contract saying, "Oh, by the way, we, we own all the intellectual property-

Krissy Cela 29:54 We own everything

Ali Abdaal 29:55 ... and you own the content."

Krissy Cela 29:55 Yeah. And I said, "No."

Ali Abdaal 29:57 Okay.

Krissy Cela 29:58 Um-

Ali Abdaal 29:58 What happened next? Uh-

Krissy Cela 30:00 Well, the app wouldn't have survived if I didn't promote it, right?

Ali Abdaal 30:03 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 30:04 So the app is mine. Just because you build the coding, no problem, I'll pay you for that

Ali Abdaal 30:09 Yeah

Krissy Cela 30:09 But you can't tell me you're gonna own my app for the rest of my life.

Ali Abdaal 30:13 Mm.

Krissy Cela 30:13 That means, like, all the new trainers we've brought in, hundreds and thousands of women subscribed to the app-

Ali Abdaal 30:18 Yeah

Krissy Cela 30:18 ... you're telling me you own all that?

Ali Abdaal 30:19 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 30:20 That wouldn't also make the community feel comfortable.

Ali Abdaal 30:22 Mm.

Krissy Cela 30:23 That would make the community feel really uncomfortable, knowing that this third party had all this information.

Ali Abdaal 30:28 Mm.

Krissy Cela 30:28 Like, no. Now it's 100% owned by Tone and Sculpt. We are self-funded. We've, we're not with any other party. We own everything. We protect everything.

Ali Abdaal 30:38 Yeah

Krissy Cela 30:38 We protect our community. It's in, uh, in our hands, so if we mess up, it's our fault.

Ali Abdaal 30:44 Okay, yeah.

Krissy Cela 30:44 It's nobody else's fault. I can't run to someone and blame them. It's my blame.

Ali Abdaal 30:48 So how-

Krissy Cela 30:49 So

Ali Abdaal 30:49 So is, is that why you decided that, okay, you know what, we need to fight this. We're gonna embark on this, like, messy legal battle type situation?

Krissy Cela 30:54 100%. I, I was happy to go down f- 10, uh, 50, 100... I w- I was ready to sell my house. Like, I genuinely was ready to sell my house.

Ali Abdaal 31:04 Wow.

Krissy Cela 31:05 Hand on my heart and on my mother's life, I was r- I looked at Jack at the time and I said, "I don't care, I'm not losing this app."

Ali Abdaal 31:12 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 31:12 "I will sell this house, I will sell our car, we will go live back with your mom and dad, but no one is taking this thing away from us." Because this is purposeful. Like, we have something, is we have something so legitimately powerful for this world.

Ali Abdaal 31:27 Mm.

Krissy Cela 31:28 I'm not giving that up.

Ali Abdaal 31:29 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 31:29 Like, are you crazy? Never.

Ali Abdaal 31:31 Okay.

Krissy Cela 31:32 So, yeah.

Ali Abdaal 31:33 How, how, how did you win the, win the battle in the end?

Krissy Cela 31:35 Balance of probability. It was more towards my favor. My, my, um, towards favoriting me than the other party.

Ali Abdaal 31:43 Okay. So were they, like... Did it go to, like, a jury and all that horse shit?

Krissy Cela 31:47 No, we settled eventually, because I just said, "Look, I'm ready to sell my house if you don't give in." [laughs]

Ali Abdaal 31:52 Yeah. [laughs] So they were like, "All right."

Krissy Cela 31:52 I'm ready to, to get the best lawyer there ever is.

Ali Abdaal 31:54 This will be pain for chicken. Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 31:55 We did really genuinely have the most amazing lawyer.

Ali Abdaal 31:57 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 31:57 Still is my lawyer, but... Um, yeah, and I think it's important for people to hear this stuff, because a lot of people think it was just, like, happy days and-

Ali Abdaal 32:05 Yeah

Krissy Cela 32:05 ... more happy than bad, of course.

Ali Abdaal 32:08 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 32:08 But you know, like, a lot happens behind the scenes. That, that's why I'm so passionate about Tone and Sculpt, and if anything, my passion's grown more. Um, and it just, I'm so consistent in the same goal. Like, I'm consistent in believing the same thing. It hasn't changed since day one.

Ali Abdaal 32:26 Mm. Okay, awesome. So you've got the app now, and then you launched the, uh, uh, Oner Active-

Krissy Cela 32:31 Yes

Ali Abdaal 32:31 ... sportswear brand.

Ali Abdaal 32:32 What, was it about a year ago?

Krissy Cela 32:33 Yes, a year. Mark s- uh, Sept- in September the 21st, it was a year.

Ali Abdaal 32:36 So w- what was the story behind that? How, how did you decide that the next step after, after the app, the community, was your own, your own clothing line?

Krissy Cela 32:44 So the next stage after that for me was, okay, so I'm a woman in fitness.

Ali Abdaal 32:50 Mm.

Krissy Cela 32:52 I train every day. I have a community of thousands of women training with me. Let me make them also look extraordinary.

Ali Abdaal 33:00 Okay.

Krissy Cela 33:01 Like, I'm helping you feel extraordinary, let me make you look extraordinary. And I thought it was really powerful to have a woman, you know, create clothing that women want to wear.

Ali Abdaal 33:15 Okay.

Krissy Cela 33:15 And I thought there was something really powerful behind that, and I thought that there was something really clever behind that. And every decision we make at Oner Active is really, um, yet again community led, but it's also, our core value is to make products that make people feel extraordinary in performance and day-to-day activity.

Ali Abdaal 33:39 Okay.

Krissy Cela 33:40 So how do we do that? How do we make people feel extraordinary?

Ali Abdaal 33:44 Mm.

Krissy Cela 33:45 Is it the colors we choose? So internally I've built a formula called the color formula. So we ensure that every color palette we use complements every skin tone in the world.

Ali Abdaal 33:55 Oh, okay.

Krissy Cela 33:56 Um, and, like, there's a huge project going on behind the scenes where we're e- even gonna bring in a skin specialist to tell us what colors we should never go for. So regardless of me dying tomorrow, I've set in stone that these colors should never be used.

Ali Abdaal 34:10 Mm.

Krissy Cela 34:10 But you can go towards these colors. So that means everybody can, can feel extraordinary in the colors we use. How about the fits? Okay, so it's our duty to ensure that we have a fit for everyone. How do we do that? Well, I'm really, like, proud to announce that in December we're gonna launch our first double XL, um, range, so it helps even more people feel extraordinary. So loads of the decisions we make are hugely calculative and hugely based on our core value.

Ali Abdaal 34:42 How did you figure out what these core values were? [laughs]

Krissy Cela 34:44 Um, you just have to ask yourself the questions of why you're doing this.

Ali Abdaal 34:48 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 34:48 Like, it's very easy when you ask yourself, "Why are you doing this?" Like, you sit yourself in a room and you go, "Why did you feel like Tone and Sculpt was needed in this world?"

Ali Abdaal 34:58 Mm.

Krissy Cela 34:58 Like, "Why did you feel like there wasn't enough already out there?"

Ali Abdaal 35:02 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 35:02 And then you start listing all these things, and you're like, "Yeah, those are our values."

Ali Abdaal 35:07 Okay.

Krissy Cela 35:08 Like, why did I feel the need to create Oner Active-

Ali Abdaal 35:12 Mm

Krissy Cela 35:12 ... with my business partners? Like, why did I feel t- the need to do this? And you start really seeing it all come to life. There's insane brands out there, brands that genuinely inspire me daily. I just think the bottom line is I'm so community orientated, and I want to listen to women's, and potentially one day men's, needs to just give them what they need and what they want.

Ali Abdaal 35:39 In the book, I think, uh, it's, so it's one of the early chapters, you talk about finding your why, and y- you reference Simon Sinek's

Ali Abdaal 35:45 book, Start With Why. Um, I wonder w- when it comes to sort of new entrepreneurs or people starting out in their entrepreneurship or, or being a creator, to what extent do you think it, it's important to start with, to start with that mission or purpose? 'Cause-

Krissy Cela 36:00 It's very important.

Ali Abdaal 36:01 Okay.

Krissy Cela 36:02 It's so important. It's so important. If you are- Starting a brand, if you want to start a brand, like, if you don't know your why, just don't do it. Like, I can't stress that enough. If you are starting a brand to make money-

Ali Abdaal 36:15 Mm

Krissy Cela 36:16 ... ugh, like, I d- no.

Ali Abdaal 36:18 Okay.

Krissy Cela 36:19 No. You should never start a brand to make money.

Ali Abdaal 36:22 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 36:22 If your core, if your, if your core ideology is profit-

Ali Abdaal 36:26 Mm

Krissy Cela 36:26 ... if your core value is, "We aim to make 100 million in the first five years," if that's your number one core value, I'm not saying it shouldn't be a core value.

Ali Abdaal 36:37 Mm.

Krissy Cela 36:37 I'm saying if that's your number one core value, you're gonna plummet.

Ali Abdaal 36:41 Okay.

Krissy Cela 36:41 Because every decision you make will be profit-led, not mission-led. There's a complete difference.

Ali Abdaal 36:46 Okay.

Krissy Cela 36:46 So you need your why. You need to know why you want to start why you want to start. What is the reason? And it's a very big question to ask yourself, because you'll start understanding that it's deeper than what you first perceived. When women come to me and go, "I really wanna lose 10 pounds," I go, "Why?"

Ali Abdaal 37:05 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 37:05 "Why do, why? Tell me why, 'cause I really wanna know why."

Ali Abdaal 37:08 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 37:08 "Oh, 'cause I know I'll look better." "Okay, but why, why does that matter?" "I know I'll feel better." "Okay, but why?"

Ali Abdaal 37:14 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 37:14 "But why? But why?" Truth is, that bride that wants to lose 10 pounds for her wedding

Krissy Cela 37:20 day, it's not that she wants to lose 10 pounds. It's that she wants to feel confident in her wedding day. So actually, it's not about the pounds she loses, it's the effort she's putting in daily to feel confident on her wedding day. There's a complete difference.

Ali Abdaal 37:35 Okay.

Krissy Cela 37:36 So that why is gonna keep her driven longer-

Ali Abdaal 37:38 Mm

Krissy Cela 37:39 ... than constantly stepping on the scales and seeing those numbers not shift.

Ali Abdaal 37:42 Yeah, I think it's similar on the, let's say if someone wants to start a YouTube channel, w- if you, if you do it for the sake of wanting to make money from it, it's really hard to keep that motivation going-

Krissy Cela 37:52 Yeah

Ali Abdaal 37:52 ... to, to, to sustain that. If you do it for the sake of chasing views, it's really hard to keep going. But if you do it for, like-

Krissy Cela 37:57 You're gonna get really sad.

Ali Abdaal 37:58 Yeah [laughs] .

Krissy Cela 37:59 You're gonna get really upset. You're gonna think you're not good enough. You're gonna cross compare. You're gonna just never be satisfied. I've been there. Like, I can genuinely speak from experience, and you're going to completely and truly fuck your mind up.

Ali Abdaal 38:13 So one thing, one thing I was, I was intrigued about w- sort of your, one of your sort of life philosophies. That sounds like a grandiose way of putting it, but one, one of your gr- life philosophies is that you don't s- you seem not, you seem to not care about goals.

Krissy Cela 38:26 Mm.

Ali Abdaal 38:26 And that really resonates with me, because I also think goals are a bit overrated, and it's more about the journey rather than about the destination.

Krissy Cela 38:33 Mm-hmm.

Ali Abdaal 38:34 Um, and that's something I've been, I've been, like, spieling on my YouTube channel for the last, like, four years. And then I, I read that. I, y- in, in the book you said something along that effect as well, that like, you know, it's, it's, it's less about the destination. It's not about, like, the motivation. It's not about the goal.

Krissy Cela 38:46 Yeah, motivation's so overrated.

Ali Abdaal 38:46 I wonder if you could elaborate on that. Yeah.

Krissy Cela 38:48 Motivation's so overrated. Like-

Ali Abdaal 38:51 What?

Krissy Cela 38:51 Oh, she's just dr- like, jarring, and just, just, like, shut up. Like, I hate her. She's, she comes one day. She leaves another day. She's there i- in a moment, and then I'm like, "Where has she gone?" [laughs] And then it's just like, I can't be bothered with it, and I can't s- express enough how you need to stop relying on motivation and start relying more on building consistency and discipline in your day-to-day life. Motivation is not something that you can sustain for the rest of your life, because there's gonna be moments where you don't wanna get out of bed. There's gonna be moments where you wanna eat your favorite pizza and watch Netflix and skip the gym. Totally fine. There's gonna be moments where you actually don't wanna come to work, even though it's your biggest passion.

Ali Abdaal 39:33 Mm.

Krissy Cela 39:33 'Cause you're tired, you're drained, you're exhausted mentally and physically. But consistency is what makes you go, "I'm gonna go to the gym, but I'm gonna come back home also and eat my pizza and watch Netflix with my partner. I'm gonna go to work, but only for two hours." You know?

Ali Abdaal 39:50 Mm.

Krissy Cela 39:50 It's, it's, that's what consistency is to me.

Ali Abdaal 39:54 Okay.

Krissy Cela 39:54 Because moti-

Ali Abdaal 39:55 It's sort of like showing up.

Krissy Cela 39:56 Showing up.

Ali Abdaal 39:56 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 39:57 Because motivation to me is either or.

Ali Abdaal 40:01 Okay, yeah.

Krissy Cela 40:01 It's-

Ali Abdaal 40:01 I'm either motivated to go for that 5K run-

Krissy Cela 40:03 Or I don't go at all

Ali Abdaal 40:03 ... or I'm gonna lie in bed and, like, yeah.

Krissy Cela 40:04 Yes.

Ali Abdaal 40:05 Okay.

Krissy Cela 40:06 Consistency to me is if I don't wanna do it one day, I'll go for a little bit.

Ali Abdaal 40:10 Okay.

Krissy Cela 40:11 I'll give it a go.

Ali Abdaal 40:12 Yep.

Krissy Cela 40:12 If I don't wanna show up, fine, I'll take my meetings from home.

Ali Abdaal 40:16 Mm.

Krissy Cela 40:17 It's more flexible.

Ali Abdaal 40:19 Okay.

Krissy Cela 40:20 It's more understanding. And I see these components as actual humans. That sounds really weird, but I see motivation as, like, this sassy diva. She sometimes wants to, to go on stage and give her best show, but sometimes she just wants to tell her team to go away and she's not going on stage. Then I see consistency as, like, this really, like, humble, genuine p- person that wants to help you.

Ali Abdaal 40:46 Mm.

Krissy Cela 40:47 And I think you sh- people need to start perceiving certain elements as, as personas.

Ali Abdaal 40:51 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 40:51 Because it will make you kinda distinguish which one you wanna aim for more.

Ali Abdaal 40:55 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 40:56 Which one you wanna build a relationship with more.

Ali Abdaal 40:58 Interesting. Okay, so it's, so you wake up in the morning, your alarm goes off at half past 5:00, and you're thinking, "Ugh, I'm, I'm feeling a bit tired today." What do you, what do you tell yourself to-

Krissy Cela 41:07 This was the other day for me, actually. I, my alarm went off at half 5:00, ironically, and then I was like, "Oh, it's cold."

Ali Abdaal 41:15 Mm.

Krissy Cela 41:15 "It's dark. I'm in England."

Ali Abdaal 41:17 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 41:18 "Ugh, like, it's too cold now."

Ali Abdaal 41:19 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 41:19 It's like, nearly November, and I was like, "I'm so tired. I don't wanna go to the gym." And then I said to myself, "Right, listen. Krissy, go to gym today. If you feel like this tomorrow, give it a miss."

Ali Abdaal 41:34 Mm.

Krissy Cela 41:34 That's what I said to myself, like, and I did. Today I didn't go to the gym. I didn't go to the gym. I was still so tired, I gave myself an extra two hours sleep instead, and that's what I needed.

Ali Abdaal 41:44 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 41:44 But if I'm doing that every day, that's not good.

Ali Abdaal 41:48 Um, one thing I wanted to ask you about is, you talk about how we should move towards, um, and St- uh, S- uh, Steven Bartlett talks about this as well, kind of, uh, h- health being your foundation, do it for you, that kind of stuff. But realistically, I mean, certainly for me, the reason I go to the gym, like, I would love for it to be for my own health and for myself. But a big part of it is 'cause I wanna look-

Krissy Cela 42:11 Aesthetic

Ali Abdaal 42:11 ... I wanna look better, I want, I don't know, I, I w- I want girls to be more attracted to me-

Krissy Cela 42:16 Yeah

Ali Abdaal 42:16 ... that kind of stuff. Um, t- to what extent do-

Krissy Cela 42:21 You know that what?

Ali Abdaal 42:22 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 42:22 If that's your driving force, then fine.

Ali Abdaal 42:24 Mm.

Krissy Cela 42:25 Like, that's not a bad thing. I just wanna, I just wanna, I just wanna-

Ali Abdaal 42:29 Yeah

Krissy Cela 42:29 ... s- say something because I think-

Ali Abdaal 42:30 Please

Krissy Cela 42:30 ... a lot of people think that it's a bad thing to have a physical goal when it's not.

Ali Abdaal 42:34 Okay.

Krissy Cela 42:34 Like, it takes roughly three months to incorporate a consistent habit into your life, right? If your goal for the next three months is to look a certain way because you wanna bigger chest-

Ali Abdaal 42:47 Yeah

Krissy Cela 42:47 ... or this chiseled ab-

Ali Abdaal 42:48 Six-pack abs or whatever, yeah

Krissy Cela 42:48 ... six, yeah, six-pack abs, whatever, great. But guess what? When behind the scenes, whether you like to think it or not, you're building that consistency.

Ali Abdaal 42:56 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 42:57 So when you get those abs, you're still gonna go.

Ali Abdaal 42:59 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 42:59 You're still [laughs] gonna... It's gonna be part of your life now, right?

Ali Abdaal 43:02 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 43:03 So if it is a physical goal that's driving you, no problem, but behind the scenes, you're still building that consistency.

Ali Abdaal 43:10 Mm.

Krissy Cela 43:11 The only thing I would say is if you're not getting that result that you want to see, or when you're stepping on the scales and you're not seeing the number shift, and then you're doing a 360 and completely giving up, that's a, that's a problem.

Ali Abdaal 43:25 Mm.

Krissy Cela 43:26 Because then it's not a... You're not, you're not taking the time to build that consistency. And I can't stress enough that if something is not sustainable in your life, you shouldn't be doing it. So if you're pushing yourself to do two hours in the gym every single day, and that's not sustainable for your life-

Ali Abdaal 43:41 Yeah

Krissy Cela 43:41 ... stop doing it.

Ali Abdaal 43:42 Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 43:43 If you can only train at home with a set of dumbbells for 30 minutes, do that instead.

Ali Abdaal 43:50 Yeah, 'cause it's not really about the short, intense bursts that last, like, a week-

Krissy Cela 43:53 Mm

Ali Abdaal 43:53 ... 'cause that, that's [laughs] actually not gonna have any impact at all.

Krissy Cela 43:54 Exactly.

Ali Abdaal 43:55 Um, consistency rather than intensity, um, is better.

Krissy Cela 43:58 Always.

Ali Abdaal 43:58 Yeah. Interesting. Uh, th- there was something you posted on Instagram, I think it was in the last week or so, where i- y- it was like a screenshot of, um, your body a few years ago versus now.

Krissy Cela 44:09 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 44:09 And you were highlighting some of the comments you got around, um, people saying-

Krissy Cela 44:13 "I looked better before"

Ali Abdaal 44:13 ... "Oh, I looked better before." What, uh... And I, I th- I think you talked about in w- in one of the videos when, or in, in one of your stories about how men don't really get that. Um-

Krissy Cela 44:22 Mm

Ali Abdaal 44:22 ... like, that's n- a, y- you know, if a guy posts before and after, no one's commenting, "Oh, bro, you looked better before."

Krissy Cela 44:28 Mm.

Ali Abdaal 44:28 What, what does that kinda feel like from, from your perspective and,

Ali Abdaal 44:32 like, what... I just wanted to try and try and understand what it's like being, being a woman in, in the space.

Krissy Cela 44:38 Mm.

Ali Abdaal 44:39 'Cause you're dealing with that s- side of things that men just don't deal with.

Krissy Cela 44:41 Yeah. I mean, look, uh, there's a concept called Billboard bodies.

Ali Abdaal 44:46 Okay.

Krissy Cela 44:47 And it's almost like if a girl has a six-pack and then is selling a six-pack guide, that six-pack guide would do really well 'cause there's a billboard to prove-

Ali Abdaal 44:56 Okay

Krissy Cela 44:56 ... that the, that's what the product you'll get, right?

Ali Abdaal 44:59 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 44:59 And men use that a lot in this industry.

Ali Abdaal 45:02 Mm-hmm.

Krissy Cela 45:02 So a lot of the really, like, chiseled guys, incredible physiques use their bodies as a way to promote their product. That's what I do. That's what I have done. You know, everybody in the fitness industry does that, but I can't stress that enough that that's just one aspect of it-

Ali Abdaal 45:20 Okay

Krissy Cela 45:20 ... not all aspects of it. So when you look at those before and afters, that's why in the caption I was saying that before I was actually mentally exhausted. I was not okay. I was not happy. I felt just not great. But the after is a by-product of the years I've put in to not only better myself physically, but mentally as well. No one reads captions. They're looking at two pictures side by side and going, "You looked better before."

Ali Abdaal 45:47 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 45:47 You know? And that's fine. That doesn't affect me.

Ali Abdaal 45:52 It doesn't? [laughs]

Krissy Cela 45:52 Like, no, it doesn't.

Ali Abdaal 45:53 Okay.

Krissy Cela 45:54 No way. It used to.

Ali Abdaal 45:55 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 45:55 Not anymore. But I think for females, I can sit here and say, "Oh, it's more difficult for women than it is for men."

Ali Abdaal 46:04 Mm.

Krissy Cela 46:05 But the bottom line is, I could always a- also use the fact that I am a woman to a huge dis- to a huge advantage.

Ali Abdaal 46:12 Okay. As in?

Krissy Cela 46:13 As in the community I've built of women.

Ali Abdaal 46:15 Mm.

Krissy Cela 46:16 Can a man build a community like that for women? No.

Ali Abdaal 46:20 Mm. Okay.

Krissy Cela 46:21 Like, I've used the fact that I'm a woman to make other women feel really confident in my space.

Ali Abdaal 46:28 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 46:29 To make them feel at home, to make them feel like they're part of a family, and I'm so thankful that I am a woman because in my industry, I was able to do that.

Ali Abdaal 46:39 Mm. Interesting. So you've got this, like, although it is harder in that sense-

Krissy Cela 46:43 Yeah

Ali Abdaal 46:43 ... in that you're dealing with these comments which dudes might not deal with, you also have that kind of unfair advantage, as it were-

Krissy Cela 46:49 Yeah

Ali Abdaal 46:49 ... of being able to build this, this, like, fantastic community.

Krissy Cela 46:50 I don't mind people telling me-

Ali Abdaal 46:52 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 46:52 ... that they liked my before. I, I, I'm just happy to see a woman lifting weights and, like, the, the, the tags I see every day. Like, I see every single Instagram tag.

Ali Abdaal 47:03 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 47:03 I go through all of them, and I reply to them, and I love seeing them. I see women in the gym. I see them with their best friends. I see them with other Tone and Sculpt community members.

Ali Abdaal 47:13 Mm.

Krissy Cela 47:13 And I'm just like, "This is it. I love it."

Ali Abdaal 47:16 Nice. Um, I wanted to end by talking about the book a little bit.

Krissy Cela 47:20 Sure.

Ali Abdaal 47:20 So, um, how did... W- w- what was the story behind the book and, like, how you got the book deal, and what was the story? Like, what was the story there?

Krissy Cela 47:29 So look, the book is one of those things where it's a reminder.

Ali Abdaal 47:33 Mm.

Krissy Cela 47:34 Like, when, when people open up Do This For You, I want them to end this book with a reminder to do this for themselves.

Ali Abdaal 47:42 Mm.

Krissy Cela 47:43 And I give you loads of analogies. I give you loads of, like, you know... It, it's very much so I, I point something out, and then I give you an example.

Ali Abdaal 47:51 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 47:51 So if you're, if you like reading stuff like that, it's great. So I point a, a, a situation out, and then I give you an example of that situation to, to help you further kind of expand your understanding.

Ali Abdaal 48:05 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 48:05 And if you have read it before, I can't encourage enough to go back and start making notes.

Ali Abdaal 48:09 Okay.

Krissy Cela 48:10 'Cause each and every single chapter will force you to think.

Ali Abdaal 48:13 Right

Krissy Cela 48:13 And I see so many people in this b- using this book, and I see Post-It Notes everywhere because they're just thinking out loud, and they're like, "Oh, yeah, what about this? What if I do this? What if I do that?"

Ali Abdaal 48:23 Mm.

Krissy Cela 48:24 It's a, it's a thinking book. It's not a book where I'm telling you what to do for, for seven days, how to eat, how to train. It's a book where I'm telling you to think about your why in your fitness journey-

Ali Abdaal 48:35 Yeah

Krissy Cela 48:35 ... and to remind you of your why.

Ali Abdaal 48:37 Yeah. Nice. How, so when, did a publisher, like, approach you for it? Or did you decide to write, write a book?

Krissy Cela 48:43 Yeah, yeah, they approached me for it.

Ali Abdaal 48:44 How, how, how did that work?

Krissy Cela 48:45 I never thought I'd write a book, I'm not gonna lie.

Ali Abdaal 48:46 Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 48:47 I was always like ... I'm actually a little bit dyslexic. No, a lot dyslexic.

Ali Abdaal 48:50 Okay.

Krissy Cela 48:51 So I find it very easy to, uh, to speak-

Ali Abdaal 48:54 Yeah

Krissy Cela 48:54 ... but find it really hard to write. And, um, actually, the person that helped me write this book was a community member.

Ali Abdaal 49:02 Oh, lovely.

Krissy Cela 49:03 So her name's Zahara.

Ali Abdaal 49:04 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 49:04 And she-

Ali Abdaal 49:05 Oh, she was in the acknowledgments at the end.

Krissy Cela 49:06 Yes.

Ali Abdaal 49:07 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 49:07 She was one of the original Tone and Sculpt crew, um, t- community members, and I met her 'cause I invited her on set.

Ali Abdaal 49:16 Mm.

Krissy Cela 49:17 And we just connected. She's complete- she's one of a kind. Like, I've never met a person like her. And I knew my strengths were the skeleton-

Ali Abdaal 49:27 Yeah

Krissy Cela 49:27 ... of the book. I know her background is teaching.

Ali Abdaal 49:31 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 49:31 And her background is, like, writing. So I said to her, "Help me write it."

Ali Abdaal 49:38 Mm.

Krissy Cela 49:38 "You're, you know my voice. You know my tone of voice. You know who you are, who I am, and I know who you are." So we did it together.

Ali Abdaal 49:45 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 49:46 And I'm so happy we did because I got her perspective on it as well.

Ali Abdaal 49:49 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 49:49 Like, how a community member would perceive it, and then me as a trainer, how I would write it.

Ali Abdaal 49:54 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 49:54 So it was nice.

Ali Abdaal 49:54 And I guess you're writing the book for your community members, so that's, like, a-

Krissy Cela 49:57 I was, this isn't a bio-

Ali Abdaal 49:58 ... a match made in heaven

Krissy Cela 49:58 ... a biography, right?

Ali Abdaal 49:59 Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 50:00 It's like, the beginning is a bit, but this is a help book.

Ali Abdaal 50:05 Mm.

Krissy Cela 50:05 This is me trying to help you.

Ali Abdaal 50:07 What was that process of getting all the ideas onto the page and figuring out, okay, these are the, I don't know, 12 chapters that we want. Like, how did-

Krissy Cela 50:12 Quite easy for me-

Ali Abdaal 50:13 Okay

Krissy Cela 50:13 ... because I was a bit, like, I kind of, it was things I talk about all the time. Like-

Ali Abdaal 50:18 Yeah

Krissy Cela 50:18 ... it's things I always discuss all the time, so it was nothing out of the extraordinary for me. Like, you know, chapter one, find your why. You lose your excuses, maximize your time, form healthy habits, is what we discuss.

Ali Abdaal 50:30 Mm.

Krissy Cela 50:31 Shift your perspective is what we've discussed. Believe you can, we've discussed it.

Ali Abdaal 50:34 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 50:35 Find your tribe, which is your community. All these things me and you have discussed, so it comes very natural.

Ali Abdaal 50:41 Okay.

Krissy Cela 50:41 It was just about making them fit perfectly in the book.

Ali Abdaal 50:45 And how did you do that part, like, in the thing of making them fit? Because it w- it would be very easy for it to turn into sort of a-

Krissy Cela 50:50 A messy-

Ali Abdaal 50:51 ... a messy b- BuzzFeed listicle kind of thing-

Krissy Cela 50:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Ali Abdaal 50:53 ... which there's not any. But I, as I was reading, I was like, oh, one point, it, it, it, like, flows.

Krissy Cela 50:57 It follows through.

Ali Abdaal 50:57 It flows really nicely.

Krissy Cela 50:58 Because every point is kind of the same.

Ali Abdaal 51:00 Okay.

Krissy Cela 51:01 If you think about it, like finding your why and not making excuses, they sit hand-in-hand.

Ali Abdaal 51:06 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 51:06 Your first thing to, you need to do is find your why. Like, why are you doing this? The second thing to do is, right now let's drop all the excuses behind your why, right? Third thing is, okay, let's find the time to execute your why.

Ali Abdaal 51:18 Yeah, yeah.

Krissy Cela 51:19 So everything goes back to the why.

Ali Abdaal 51:21 Okay.

Krissy Cela 51:21 Your tribe. Who is your tribe, and why are they your tribe?

Ali Abdaal 51:24 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 51:24 So everything always goes back, back, back to that why, and that's why I do wish my book was called Find Your Why, but-

Ali Abdaal 51:33 Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 51:33 ... there's already a book out there called Find Your Why.

Ali Abdaal 51:35 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 51:36 So yeah.

Ali Abdaal 51:38 Well, was it much of a struggle coming up with a title?

Krissy Cela 51:41 No. No, come on. Do this for you.

Ali Abdaal 51:43 Yeah, it just, it just fits so nicely. I mean, so I'm, I'm, I'm writing a book at the moment, and it's been such a struggle to figure out what the hell the title's gonna be.

Krissy Cela 51:49 It will come to you.

Ali Abdaal 51:50 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 51:50 But you have to find your why first.

Ali Abdaal 51:51 Yeah, that's the thing. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 51:53 See, I would sit. You know what? I would take a day off work.

Ali Abdaal 51:55 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 51:56 Like, just tell your team, "You know what, guys? Crack on with work. I'm gonna just-"

Ali Abdaal 51:59 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 51:59 "... don't contact me." And I would just go sit in a coffee shop.

Ali Abdaal 52:03 Mm.

Krissy Cela 52:03 Wherever you feel comfortable. Don't do it at home.

Ali Abdaal 52:05 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 52:05 Um, it gets too comfortable at home.

Ali Abdaal 52:07 Mm-hmm.

Krissy Cela 52:08 And I would just list all your whys.

Ali Abdaal 52:10 Right.

Krissy Cela 52:11 I'd list all your whys, why you wanna do this, why you wanna be here, why you wanna put this out in the world.

Ali Abdaal 52:17 Mm-hmm.

Krissy Cela 52:17 And you'll start to just write, you'll start free writing. Like, it'll just be so natural to you, and then by the time you realize it, two hours have gone by.

Ali Abdaal 52:27 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 52:28 Then you'll, like, take com- compartments, brainstorming concepts.

Ali Abdaal 52:32 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 52:32 By the time you realize four hours have gone by, the next day you've got your, you've got your title.

Ali Abdaal 52:38 Mm.

Krissy Cela 52:39 Give it a go and send me a picture.

Ali Abdaal 52:40 Okay. I will, I'll, I'll actually-

Krissy Cela 52:41 I wanna see if you actually do it.

Ali Abdaal 52:43 I'll actually try that.

Krissy Cela 52:44 Give it a go. You never know.

Ali Abdaal 52:45 The why, the why exercise. 'Cause I spend so much time sitting in coffee shops thinking, "What's the title gonna be?" But I've never, it's a really taken a step back to think-

Krissy Cela 52:51 You need to, yeah. You need to dissect it. You need to really be like, "Why am I even writing a book? Like, what, what is the reason behind this book?"

Ali Abdaal 52:59 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 52:59 "Why am I even here?" 'Cause when you start asking yourself, you're like, "Aha."

Ali Abdaal 53:04 Those are really big questions. [laughs] Yeah.

Krissy Cela 53:05 Yeah, but they're really great questions because they start getting your mind to think. Some of the decisions we have with Tone and Sculpt and Oner Active, I always go to team, "Okay, why?" And they don't realize that I'm asking them a really big que- big question 'cause of the way I'm saying it, so I'm like, "Okay, why?"

Ali Abdaal 53:22 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 53:22 And I had to drop it in there, and then they go, "Oh, because of this, this, this, this." Imagine I go, "Tell me the why."

Ali Abdaal 53:27 Mm.

Krissy Cela 53:27 They're like, "Oh, shit."

Ali Abdaal 53:29 Yeah. That sounds like a bigger deal to live.

Krissy Cela 53:31 So I'm like, "Yeah, okay, tell me your why."

Ali Abdaal 53:32 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 53:32 Like, "Why, why are we doing this?"

Ali Abdaal 53:33 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 53:34 And then they don't realize that I do it every single day to them now.

Ali Abdaal 53:37 Okay. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 53:38 They don't realize. Like, I go to my design team... By the way, sometimes I know the answer.

Ali Abdaal 53:42 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 53:42 And I'll go to my design team, "Oh, what, why are we doing that, that line there?"

Ali Abdaal 53:47 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 53:47 I know the answer.

Ali Abdaal 53:48 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 53:48 I just wanna hear how they perceive it.

Ali Abdaal 53:50 Okay. Uh, so I've, I, I sort of sometimes do this with my team, and, and occasionally team members will get frustrated that I'm, I'm n- I'm not trusting them enough.

Krissy Cela 53:58 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 53:58 And I'm questioning their decision when I'm asking, you know, "What's, wh- what's the rationale here? Why, why are we doing it that way?" Do you get that sort of thing at all from your team?

Krissy Cela 54:07 Why are they getting frustrated over you asking why?

Ali Abdaal 54:10 Mm-hmm.

Krissy Cela 54:11 That encourages conversation.

Ali Abdaal 54:13 Mm.

Krissy Cela 54:13 That encourages you to collaborate together.

Ali Abdaal 54:15 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 54:15 That encourages you to share each other's thoughts. That shouldn't be offensive to them. This isn't you trusting- Having a trust issue with your team

Ali Abdaal 54:24 Mm-hmm

Krissy Cela 54:24 This is you just genuinely wanting to understand their thought process.

Ali Abdaal 54:27 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 54:27 I always sit and talk to my team. Actually, sometimes we, we over-collaborate.

Ali Abdaal 54:32 Mm-hmm.

Krissy Cela 54:32 Like, sometimes a little bit. Like, "Guys, stop now."

Ali Abdaal 54:36 Okay.

Krissy Cela 54:37 But it is so beautiful when you see people come together. Like, my favorite thing in the world is when a can of worm is opened up-

Ali Abdaal 54:47 Ooh

Krissy Cela 54:47 ... in the office.

Ali Abdaal 54:48 Yeah

Krissy Cela 54:48 And a question's thrown out, and I'm like, "Guys, what do you think about this?" And I do it on purpose.

Ali Abdaal 54:53 Mm.

Krissy Cela 54:53 I go, "Guys, what do you think about this? I'm unsure." I know the [laughs] answer.

Ali Abdaal 54:57 Yep. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 54:58 And they're like, "Hmm," and they start talking, and then they start deliberating, and then they start constructively arguing, and I'm like, "Amazing."

Ali Abdaal 55:07 Nice.

Krissy Cela 55:07 This is it. When you bring people-

Ali Abdaal 55:10 Mm

Krissy Cela 55:10 ... like-minded with the same vision and mission in one office, and they're just at it-

Ali Abdaal 55:16 Mm

Krissy Cela 55:16 ... in a healthy way.

Ali Abdaal 55:17 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 55:17 They're at it in a very respectful, constructive way, and you come out with the best possible outcome. If your team doesn't challenge you-

Ali Abdaal 55:28 Mm

Krissy Cela 55:28 ... there's an issue. You should challenge them, and they should challenge you. I've had so many team members before ... And my team does not kiss my ass. I can't express that enough. Like, my team will say no to me. I'll say, "No, we need to do this." They go, "No, we need more time." Or they'll go, "No, we can do it sooner." And I'm like, "No, we need more time." And I'll go ... They'll go, "No." Your team should be able to do that with you.

Ali Abdaal 55:51 Okay.

Krissy Cela 55:51 They should be able to see you as someone that they can collaborate with-

Ali Abdaal 55:54 Right

Krissy Cela 55:54 ... not be afraid of.

Ali Abdaal 55:55 Yeah. I guess when you, when you started building a team, you probably didn't have much experience of managing and leading and-

Krissy Cela 56:01 Oh, no

Ali Abdaal 56:02 ... stuff. How did you learn that stuff over time? And I guess go ... What mistakes did you make that you-

Krissy Cela 56:07 Oh, so many

Ali Abdaal 56:08 ... you kinda learned from in that?

Krissy Cela 56:10 So many mistakes. Like, no one tells you that people, people are gonna be your biggest problem, are they? No one tells you.

Ali Abdaal 56:18 No, they really don't. Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 56:19 No one tells you that. No one tells you that staff is gonna be-

Ali Abdaal 56:22 Yeah

Krissy Cela 56:22 ... your best reward but your biggest issue as well.

Ali Abdaal 56:24 Mm.

Krissy Cela 56:26 And I've learnt on the job, and I've literally faked it till I made it.

Ali Abdaal 56:29 Okay.

Krissy Cela 56:30 Like, I've not ... I don't have a mentor. I don't, um, have, like, this hidden-

Ali Abdaal 56:38 Yeah

Krissy Cela 56:38 ... handy book. I've learnt as I go along, but I can't stress enough to you that the team you have are people.

Ali Abdaal 56:47 Mm.

Krissy Cela 56:48 They're not machines. They are people, and they require empathy.

Ali Abdaal 56:53 Mm.

Krissy Cela 56:53 They require respect, and they require

Krissy Cela 56:56 to have purpose.

Ali Abdaal 56:58 Okay.

Krissy Cela 56:58 Like, you have to treat your team like people, and so m- many corporations forget that people want weekends off.

Ali Abdaal 57:07 Mm.

Krissy Cela 57:07 Forget that people have children. And I'm so thankful that it's very rare for me to ask an employee to, to do more than they should.

Ali Abdaal 57:17 Okay.

Krissy Cela 57:17 But they want to.

Ali Abdaal 57:18 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 57:18 They want to do more because they believe in what we believe in, and what I believe in. They genuinely f- like, believe it so much-

Ali Abdaal 57:25 Mm

Krissy Cela 57:25 ... that they get emotional if it's not done. So, like, the other day we were picking colors for 2022, and Lisa, our head designer on Oner Active, has a child, and I said, "Go home." Like, "What are you doing?" "Oh, no, no, no. It's fine. I'll, I'll, I'll just stay."

Ali Abdaal 57:40 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 57:40 Like, she genuinely wanted to stay, not because I was there, but she was so intrigued by what we were doing.

Ali Abdaal 57:46 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 57:47 And that's because I've shown her so much respect, and I've shown her so much integrity and transparency, and I've said to her, like, "I don't fucking understand this. Can you teach me it?" Or I've said to her, like, "Lisa, what do I do? I trust you. Can you help me?" You have to give people purpose.

Ali Abdaal 58:04 Okay.

Krissy Cela 58:04 You have to say to your team, "I trust you to do it."

Ali Abdaal 58:06 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 58:06 "Go do it."

Ali Abdaal 58:07 Okay.

Krissy Cela 58:08 Let them make mistakes.

Ali Abdaal 58:09 Okay. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 58:11 I guess I just learnt along the way.

Ali Abdaal 58:13 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 58:13 I dunno where I got it from.

Ali Abdaal 58:14 Were there some things that you did very wrong in the early days-

Krissy Cela 58:17 Yeah

Ali Abdaal 58:17 ... that you look back on?

Krissy Cela 58:18 Yeah, of course. Of course. I made so many mistakes. I ... Some of the mistakes I made was I got too involved with my team.

Ali Abdaal 58:26 Okay.

Krissy Cela 58:26 Like, saw them more as friends, less as employees.

Ali Abdaal 58:29 Okay.

Krissy Cela 58:29 One of the mistakes I made was, you know, just, um, taking things too personally. One of the mistakes I made was also, like, my reactions to things.

Ali Abdaal 58:39 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 58:39 Like, I remember especially during this whole legal battle and my ending of my relationship, which is no excuse-

Ali Abdaal 58:46 Mm

Krissy Cela 58:47 ... but to put it in perspective, I would sometimes have major outbursts.

Ali Abdaal 58:51 Mm.

Krissy Cela 58:52 And I would shout, and that's not good. That's not good at all. You know? And I've come to the, to the realization that it's not about me, and it ch- it has changed over time, and it will continue to change, and I have some really great people around me to come into my office and say, "Maybe deal with things differently next time."

Ali Abdaal 59:15 Oh, nice. Interesting.

Krissy Cela 59:17 That ... My, my team does not kiss my ass. They might laugh at my joke once in a while. [laughs]

Ali Abdaal 59:23 Yeah. [laughs] Do you set-

Krissy Cela 59:24 But no

Ali Abdaal 59:24 ... do you s- do, do you do, like, goal setting and, like, metrics and stuff for the team?

Krissy Cela 59:29 Um, right now Tone and Sculpt is way more structured than Oner Active-

Ali Abdaal 59:33 Okay

Krissy Cela 59:34 ... simply because it's got years, more years-

Ali Abdaal 59:36 Yeah

Krissy Cela 59:36 ... than O- Oney. Oner Active is in a very transitional period right now.

Ali Abdaal 59:40 Okay.

Krissy Cela 59:40 Like, we're hiring, um, a lot of exec department team leaders-

Ali Abdaal 59:45 Yeah

Krissy Cela 59:45 ... which will come in and put KPIs in place. We're in a period as well where we've, we've had a lot of growth-

Ali Abdaal 59:51 Mm

Krissy Cela 59:51 ... so we're trying to catch up with that growth with the right team members.

Ali Abdaal 59:55 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 59:55 So the first year we made, um, 10 million revenue, so to have, to make 10 million with a team of-

Ali Abdaal 1:00:00 Nice. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:00:00 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 1:00:00 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:00:01 To make 10 million revenue with a team of five people-

Ali Abdaal 1:00:03 Yeah, that's insane. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:00:04 That's not, that's also not good.

Ali Abdaal 1:00:05 That's, uh, yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:00:06 It's a bit scary 'cause it's like we need more processes. We need more team members. We need more suppliers. Like-

Ali Abdaal 1:00:11 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:00:11 ... so right now the team is more focused on building more relationships with suppliers that, that have great, um, ethical processes-

Ali Abdaal 1:00:20 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:00:20 ... and we, we wanna work with them, building more of their internal team, so we hired a great head designer. She was actually head designer for Sweaty Betty for 10 years-

Ali Abdaal 1:00:29 Mm

Krissy Cela 1:00:29 ... which is incredible. Um, so she's come to Oner Active, which is huge success for us because she's- Absolutely amazing at what she does

Ali Abdaal 1:00:37 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:00:37 So she's now building her team. When she builds her processes and her team, she will then build KPIs-

Ali Abdaal 1:00:42 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:00:42 ... and goals-

Ali Abdaal 1:00:43 Nice

Krissy Cela 1:00:43 ... and whatnot.

Ali Abdaal 1:00:44 How, how do you think about, um, for, for, like, exec leader- leadership positions, promoting from within, like the five people you got started with and sort of making them the exec team versus bringing in people from, from the outside?

Krissy Cela 1:00:57 Everyone you hire should be great.

Ali Abdaal 1:00:59 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:01:00 Like, everyone you hire should be so fucking good-

Ali Abdaal 1:01:05 Mm

Krissy Cela 1:01:05 ... that they're able to come in one day to your office and go, "I'm leaving 'cause I'm gonna start my own brand."

Ali Abdaal 1:01:11 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:01:12 And I go, "Off you go."

Ali Abdaal 1:01:13 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:01:14 That's how good they should be. And I can safely say that with both brands, we have great people.

Ali Abdaal 1:01:21 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:01:22 And, you know, great people that will get huge promotions going forward, because I don't wanna just bring someone else in-

Ali Abdaal 1:01:31 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:01:31 ... because they've been great in another brand.

Ali Abdaal 1:01:33 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:01:34 Sure, that might work for some people, but for us, it's like, no, we have some great people here we can nurture.

Ali Abdaal 1:01:41 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:01:42 And if we have great people that maybe require one ex- one more year extra to be-

Ali Abdaal 1:01:47 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:01:47 ... incredible, let's just wait a bit.

Ali Abdaal 1:01:49 Okay. So you wouldn't hire someone in a position kind of above them. You would give them that time to develop into that position?

Krissy Cela 1:01:55 Yes. I would give them that time to develop in that position, but it depends who they are. So for example, right now, for Oner Active, we're in the process of hiring a creative director.

Ali Abdaal 1:02:03 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:02:04 So that creative director is going to be an, an exec. They... This is a huge, big exec role.

Ali Abdaal 1:02:11 Mm-hmm.

Krissy Cela 1:02:11 Right? So they will come in, but they also... They already have kind of a team built underneath them.

Ali Abdaal 1:02:16 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:02:17 But then, you know, I have an operations manager at, um, Oner Active who I see as my right hand.

Ali Abdaal 1:02:23 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:02:23 And one day I do see her as an, an incredible exec role.

Ali Abdaal 1:02:27 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:02:27 You know? That could lead a team without me there.

Ali Abdaal 1:02:29 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:02:29 So it depends who it is. It depends who you have internally right now. Whereas we have a graphic designer at OA as well, who I see beyond the graphic design. I see her more as an art director, you know?

Ali Abdaal 1:02:41 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:02:41 But I need more from her. I need to test her a bit more.

Ali Abdaal 1:02:44 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:02:45 I need to give her a few more fires to take out and see how she handles it.

Ali Abdaal 1:02:49 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:02:49 But I know she's capable. I don't wanna just bring it, bring people above other people.

Ali Abdaal 1:02:54 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:02:54 I wanna give them time to prove themselves, you know?

Ali Abdaal 1:02:56 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:02:57 'Cause then your team just feels like there's no ladder.

Ali Abdaal 1:03:00 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:03:00 There's nowhere to progress. There's nowhere to go with the brand.

Ali Abdaal 1:03:03 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:03:03 And they just feel stuck, and you don't want people to feel like that, especially not your inter- your, your first hub of people.

Ali Abdaal 1:03:09 Hm. Interesting. So with, w- with Oner Active, for example, the brand is going, growing, like, ridiculously fast. Presumably, when you got to that point of 10 million revenue with five people, I imagine you would've been like, "Oh, crap, we need to, we need to hire all these people all at the same time." Or, or had-

Krissy Cela 1:03:23 No, no. We already had the process.

Ali Abdaal 1:03:25 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:03:26 So, um, hire very, very, very, very slow.

Ali Abdaal 1:03:29 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:03:29 Hire slow, fire fast.

Ali Abdaal 1:03:32 Right. Yeah. Pe- pe- people say that. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:03:34 Hire slow.

Ali Abdaal 1:03:35 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:03:35 Take your time. Understand people. Like, when I hired my head designer, I sh- w- it was COVID times, so I couldn't meet her, but I just had a call with her face-to-face.

Ali Abdaal 1:03:48 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:03:49 And we spoke for about two hours, and then I... And then when restrictions were a bit okay, I said, "Come to the office." Like, "Come and see what the team is like." The entire team was there, and I was asking her to fit me.

Ali Abdaal 1:04:01 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:04:01 Throw them in deep end, see how they react. It's a culture thing as well. Do they fit in your culture?

Ali Abdaal 1:04:06 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:04:07 Because my culture at OA is nuts.

Ali Abdaal 1:04:11 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:04:11 Like, the team is crazy.

Ali Abdaal 1:04:13 Crazy as in?

Krissy Cela 1:04:13 Like, just a bunch of wild bitches. Like-

Ali Abdaal 1:04:17 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:04:18 ... [laughs] they're just, they're just a big family. Like, they just love the brand. They love the community. They love the ethos. But we are... You could s- We- we're like, we're, we're family.

Ali Abdaal 1:04:30 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:04:30 Like, it's, it's a bunch of cousins. It's, it's b- so bizarre.

Ali Abdaal 1:04:34 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:04:34 It's like we respect each other so much, but we also can go and have a crazy, wild night out and have the b- the best memories.

Ali Abdaal 1:04:42 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:04:43 Um, and if someone comes in and can't really fit that culture, it's gonna be a bit hard on, on the rest of the team. Um, there's different personalities. We have introverts, extroverts. We have people who like working alone, people that like working a team, but our, our ethos is the same.

Ali Abdaal 1:04:59 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:05:00 Our cultures are quite similar.

Ali Abdaal 1:05:02 So how do you, how do you assess for culture fit before someone is part of the team?

Krissy Cela 1:05:05 I throw them in the team.

Ali Abdaal 1:05:07 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:05:07 So when they... So me and my operations manager-

Ali Abdaal 1:05:10 Mm

Krissy Cela 1:05:10 ... we're actually discussing this and new processes of hiring, and from now on, when we interview someone, we want to interview them in the office.

Ali Abdaal 1:05:18 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:05:18 If, f- pretty much, like, we have an open plan.

Ali Abdaal 1:05:21 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:05:21 So they're not, they don't go to my office. They go to the sitting room where ev- the team can hear.

Ali Abdaal 1:05:25 Oh, interesting. What does your hiring process look like at the moment?

Krissy Cela 1:05:29 So right now at the moment, we're headhunting a lot of people.

Ali Abdaal 1:05:31 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:05:32 But because we need really exec roles.

Ali Abdaal 1:05:35 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:05:35 Um, but right now, like, we've taken interns on as well, and we've thrown the interns in deep end. And we've been like, "You wanna, you wanna work with us?" [clicks tongue]

Ali Abdaal 1:05:46 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:05:47 "Let's, let's do this. Let's go."

Ali Abdaal 1:05:48 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:05:48 Everybody's paid.

Ali Abdaal 1:05:49 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:05:49 Like, we don't take interns on and not pay them.

Ali Abdaal 1:05:52 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:05:52 Like, we, we don't believe in that sort of stuff. Everybody needs to love the job-

Ali Abdaal 1:05:57 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:05:57 ... and needs to love the brand.

Ali Abdaal 1:05:59 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:05:59 And they need to believe in the brand.

Ali Abdaal 1:06:01 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:06:01 If you do not believe in the brand and you're just here for a salary, I will suss that out.

Ali Abdaal 1:06:06 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:06:06 I will suss that out.

Ali Abdaal 1:06:08 Okay. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:06:09 It's very easy to suss out when you've got a great team.

Ali Abdaal 1:06:12 Um, so with Tone and Sculpt, I imagine in the early b- b- because with Oner Active, it sounds like you've, you've already built a business once, and so maybe you had some of the processes in place that you could, like, copy and paste, whereas-

Krissy Cela 1:06:23 No. [laughs]

Ali Abdaal 1:06:24 Or, uh... Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:06:25 Everyone thinks this.

Ali Abdaal 1:06:26 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:06:26 Everyone thinks that. It's like, oh, you've got one brand, so it's just like bring that process-

Ali Abdaal 1:06:30 Yeah. How, how hard can it be? You know. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:06:32 Uh, completely different brands.

Ali Abdaal 1:06:34 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:06:34 Completely different brands. What Oner Active has, Tone and Sculpt lacks. What Tone and Sculpt has, Oner Active lacks.

Ali Abdaal 1:06:40 Okay. What do you mean?

Krissy Cela 1:06:41 So what I mean by that is the processes O- Tone and Sculpt has and the infrastructure Oner Active doesn't have currently.

Ali Abdaal 1:06:47 Right.

Krissy Cela 1:06:47 So we're building that. We're a startup. We're baby. Like-

Ali Abdaal 1:06:49 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:06:49 ... we're one years old. Like, Jesus, give us, give us time, you know? But, uh-

Ali Abdaal 1:06:54 Yeah But with the, you know, five people and 10 million revenue, you know, that's like-

Krissy Cela 1:06:58 Yeah

Ali Abdaal 1:06:58 ... ridiculous levels of growth.

Krissy Cela 1:06:59 It is, and it's scary.

Ali Abdaal 1:07:01 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:07:01 It's not the best thing when you grow that fast, trust me.

Ali Abdaal 1:07:03 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:07:03 'Cause you can go up and then you can go down, so it's better to be a bit more steady.

Ali Abdaal 1:07:06 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:07:07 But, um, Oner Active has a lot more, um, I would say, creativity-

Ali Abdaal 1:07:14 Okay

Krissy Cela 1:07:15 ... and more, um, focused on the mission.

Ali Abdaal 1:07:20 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:07:20 And then with Tone and Sculpt, because there's more of us, y- it needs a, there needs to be a reminder because there's, like, triple the people there.

Ali Abdaal 1:07:28 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:07:28 So you have to... More, actually. Yeah, there's gonna be at the end of the, the, uh, end of the year, end of next year will be about 60 people at Tone and Sculpt.

Ali Abdaal 1:07:35 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:07:36 So you have to ensure that the execs of that company filter through to the rest of the team the core mission, the core vision, and it can't be forgotten.

Ali Abdaal 1:07:46 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:07:46 But because OA is so small-

Ali Abdaal 1:07:48 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:07:48 ... you can't forget it, 'cause you're speaking about it every day-

Ali Abdaal 1:07:51 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:07:51 ... in an open plan office, you know?

Ali Abdaal 1:07:52 Right. And how, how do you split your time between the two?

Krissy Cela 1:07:55 So I actually have a three story office. Uh, Oner Active sits at top, and t- two floors down, two floors are Tone and Sculpt.

Ali Abdaal 1:08:03 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:08:03 So I'm up and down. [laughs]

Ali Abdaal 1:08:05 Speaking of time management, we're gonna take a very quick break to introduce Rize, who are sponsoring this week's episode. Rize is a desktop app for macOS and Windows that helps you understand where your time is going while you're browsing the internet by automatically tracking the time you spend on apps and websites. They've got some pretty sick features too, like smart break notifications that let you know when to take breaks based on your activity, and they also give you in-depth analysis of how you're dividing your time between deep work, meetings, and all that jazz, so you can find out where you can reclaim your focus, optimize your time, and be more productive. If you fancy trying it out, I've got a cheeky promo code where the first 1,000 signups will get a 25% discount off of their first three months. Just type in ALIABDAAL in caps. Rize also offer a 14-day free trial so you can test it out beforehand, so there's no reason not to give it a go. So thank you very much, Rize, for sponsoring this episode. Now let's jump back into the conversation.

Krissy Cela 1:08:51 [laughs]

Ali Abdaal 1:08:51 So what is, so what is, like, a, y- your day look... So you wake up, wake up at half 5:00, do the gym, training, breakfast, commute stuff until 10:00. And then-

Krissy Cela 1:08:58 Get to the office at 10:00.

Ali Abdaal 1:08:59 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:08:59 First meeting

Krissy Cela 1:09:00 is at 10:00.

Ali Abdaal 1:09:00 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:09:01 So yesterday, for example, I had meetings 10:00 till 6:00.

Ali Abdaal 1:09:06 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:09:07 No break.

Ali Abdaal 1:09:08 Wow.

Krissy Cela 1:09:09 Right?

Ali Abdaal 1:09:09 Do you like that? [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:09:12 Um, I like to, I like to eat for 10 minutes.

Ali Abdaal 1:09:14 Okay. Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:09:16 Yeah. But, uh, yeah, it's, like, one after the other. It, and it's like I cannot be late. You have that time with me, tell me what we need to do, tell me what we need to work on. If you go over my time, sorry, I've gotta go.

Ali Abdaal 1:09:29 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:09:30 I have to be very, like, cutthroat-

Ali Abdaal 1:09:33 Okay

Krissy Cela 1:09:34 ... unfortunately. Even though the conversation's great, I've got places to be and people to see. [laughs]

Ali Abdaal 1:09:38 Yeah. So is that what most of your days are like, sort of back-to-back meetings, 10 minutes for lunch-

Krissy Cela 1:09:41 Yeah

Ali Abdaal 1:09:41 ... type thing?

Krissy Cela 1:09:42 Back to, back-to-back meetings, or if I have anything, like, out of my ordinary schedule, like this, for example.

Ali Abdaal 1:09:47 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:09:48 Uh, but it is back to back. And then I have a 9:00 till 10:00 PM slot where I review documents in the evening.

Ali Abdaal 1:09:56 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:09:56 So I'll get home... So I'll get to the office at 10:00, then I'll leave the office around about 7:00-

Ali Abdaal 1:10:03 Okay

Krissy Cela 1:10:03 ... now. And then I get home about 8:15.

Ali Abdaal 1:10:07 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:10:08 And then I'll eat, say hello to my partner.

Ali Abdaal 1:10:11 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:10:11 9:00 PM I'll crack on with more work.

Ali Abdaal 1:10:13 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:10:14 Uh, till about 11:00.

Ali Abdaal 1:10:16 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:10:16 Rest, back at it.

Ali Abdaal 1:10:18 Wow. That's quite the schedule. So you get, like, six and a half hours of sleep each night.

Krissy Cela 1:10:22 Six hours, yeah.

Ali Abdaal 1:10:23 Six hours. Do you find that works for you?

Krissy Cela 1:10:25 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 1:10:26 Nice. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:10:27 On weekends I sleep more.

Ali Abdaal 1:10:28 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:10:28 But it works. It works. It works really well. It depends, like, I'm a woman as well, like, time of the month I need more rest, you know?

Ali Abdaal 1:10:35 Yeah, yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:10:35 Um, but yeah, it works well. I do have a cr- I, I do crash [laughs] 3:00 PM.

Ali Abdaal 1:10:42 Okay. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:10:43 And like, I'm like, "Oh my God, where's my caffeine?"

Ali Abdaal 1:10:45 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:10:45 And like, I, I, I do actually find myself laying on the sofa, and the team has to have meetings with me laying on the sofa sometimes.

Ali Abdaal 1:10:53 Oh, okay. That's... Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:10:53 'Cause I, I, we actually bought a little sofa bed-

Ali Abdaal 1:10:55 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:10:55 ... um, downstairs at Tone and Sculpt. It's like a big bed. So sometimes, like, with the Tone and Sculpt team I'll tell them, "Just sit there with me."

Ali Abdaal 1:11:02 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:11:02 And, uh, sometimes I do shut my eyes and I'm still listening.

Ali Abdaal 1:11:05 Okay. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:11:06 But I, I listen. I take everything in. Um, but I have a rule, like, emails can't be too long.

Ali Abdaal 1:11:13 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:11:13 I can't, I can't sit there and read emails all day. Uh, meetings can't be longer than... I try to keep meetings 30 minutes-

Ali Abdaal 1:11:21 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:11:21 ... at time. If they're really important, one hour.

Ali Abdaal 1:11:23 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:11:24 Um, I also tell Terry, my personal assistant, like, I have to have Fridays as a creative day where I think.

Ali Abdaal 1:11:31 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:11:31 And I go to the brands and I look at the roadmaps and I shift things around. I change things. I work on weekends as well.

Ali Abdaal 1:11:40 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:11:41 I tend to have Saturdays off, but I work Sundays.

Ali Abdaal 1:11:43 Okay. And I guess you live your life by your calendar.

Krissy Cela 1:11:46 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 1:11:46 See, where you... Do you, like, wake up and you're like, "Okay, cool. That's what I've got"?

Krissy Cela 1:11:49 Yes.

Ali Abdaal 1:11:49 Or is it a case of, "Oh, shit. That's what I've got"? [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:11:51 No, no. I wake up-

Ali Abdaal 1:11:52 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:11:52 ... and I go, "Right, this is what we need to achieve. Great. Let's go."

Ali Abdaal 1:11:56 Wow. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:11:57 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 1:11:58 Um, uh-

Krissy Cela 1:11:59 You don't run two companies by having free time.

Ali Abdaal 1:12:03 Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:12:04 But, like, today for example, you know, it's been a little bit more relaxed. It's been a bit more... My mom and dad were home-

Ali Abdaal 1:12:10 Mm

Krissy Cela 1:12:10 ... so it was a little bit more chilled. And I, I had my meetings at home in the morning. I had three meetings.

Ali Abdaal 1:12:16 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:12:16 And then I had, you know, to revise a few contracts on the train.

Ali Abdaal 1:12:20 Yep. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:12:21 And then I came to the office. We did a- another meeting, and then a product review with the team.

Ali Abdaal 1:12:27 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:12:28 Now here.

Ali Abdaal 1:12:29 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:12:29 But I do have an hour appointment today, so that's great-

Ali Abdaal 1:12:32 Oh, great.

Krissy Cela 1:12:32 A bit of free time.

Ali Abdaal 1:12:33 That'll be, that'll be good. Are you gonna review contracts while doing that or...? [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:12:35 Uh, I tend to have meetings when I have no appointments.

Ali Abdaal 1:12:38 Oh, okay. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:12:38 So there's... Every time I go to the hair salon, um, my hairdresser that I've known for about seven years-

Ali Abdaal 1:12:45 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:12:45 ... he, he's like, "I've got your charges ready for you."

Ali Abdaal 1:12:48 Oh, amazing. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:12:49 He knows the, he knows the deal. Like, I'm sorry, I'm trying to, I'm trying to run, like, two incredible brands. Like-

Ali Abdaal 1:12:55 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:12:55 ... time is like money, honey. Like, I gotta go, go, go.

Ali Abdaal 1:12:59 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:12:59 Hustle, hustle.

Ali Abdaal 1:13:01 Um, changing gears a bit. Uh, I was listening to your interview with Steven Bartlett, uh, which was just under a year ago.

Krissy Cela 1:13:07 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Ali Abdaal 1:13:08 And in that- I think you were single at the time, and you both talked about how you're difficult to date

Krissy Cela 1:13:14 Mm.

Ali Abdaal 1:13:15 And then I saw a YouTube video from a few months ago where you kind of revealed your, your new partner and things.

Krissy Cela 1:13:19 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 1:13:20 And I wanted to ask, like, it, it, it's, it sounded like when you were talking to Steven you were kind of struggling with the dating thing, feeling like work was the priority and, and, and stuff. But now, at least from, from what I've seen on YouTube, it seems like you're thriving in this new relationship. Um-

Krissy Cela 1:13:36 Work's always the priority. [laughs]

Ali Abdaal 1:13:39 Okay

Krissy Cela 1:13:39 Work is always... I, you know, I am so happy in my relationship. Like, I, I am so happy I've met Brett and he's-

Ali Abdaal 1:13:47 Mm

Krissy Cela 1:13:47 ... just, he is everything I, I... He is everything that I could want in a man.

Ali Abdaal 1:13:56 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:13:57 He's patient, he's calm.

Ali Abdaal 1:13:59 Yep.

Krissy Cela 1:13:59 He calms me. He makes me laugh.

Ali Abdaal 1:14:01 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:14:01 He's understanding. He has never once said to me, "Babe, can you get off your phone?"

Ali Abdaal 1:14:07 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:14:08 He's never said that.

Ali Abdaal 1:14:09 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:14:10 He understands that I have a job to do and I have a purpose to fulfill. And at the beginning it was a bit hard to explain that to him. He doesn't have social media.

Ali Abdaal 1:14:21 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:14:22 He's, uh, he has a PhD in chemistry, like, he works in a lab all day.

Ali Abdaal 1:14:27 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:14:28 Um, he's a very, like, he's home, home, family man. Like, that's what he's like, is he loves his family and he, he loves, like, being with his, his brothers and his mom and his dad.

Ali Abdaal 1:14:37 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:14:37 And, you know, being at home with me and my dog. So he didn't understand the complexity and the velocity of how important these jobs are and what my role was. So what I decided to do was bring him on set.

Ali Abdaal 1:14:49 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:14:49 So I brought him on set and I-

Ali Abdaal 1:14:51 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:14:51 ... I, you know, brought him around the team and then he would spend, like, a day with me and kind of see how my day was. And he was like, "Whoa." And he realized how intense it was because at first instance he thought I posted selfies all day. [laughs]

Ali Abdaal 1:15:06 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:15:07 He was like, "Oh, so what do you do? You, like, post selfies all day?" And I was like, "Yeah."

Ali Abdaal 1:15:11 I mean, it, it seems like he's in a very different industry to you. I mean, apart from, like, his, his arms are absolutely huge.

Krissy Cela 1:15:16 Yeah. He's-

Ali Abdaal 1:15:16 Uh, how-

Krissy Cela 1:15:16 He's got good arms, hasn't he? [laughs]

Ali Abdaal 1:15:17 How, how did you guys meet?

Krissy Cela 1:15:19 Uh, in the gym.

Ali Abdaal 1:15:20 Oh, right.

Krissy Cela 1:15:21 I saw him and I was like, "Oh, he's a bit of me. He's all right. He's a bit handsome." And then-

Ali Abdaal 1:15:25 Okay

Krissy Cela 1:15:25 ... one thing led to another. We got speaking. He wasn't interested in me.

Ali Abdaal 1:15:29 Okay

Krissy Cela 1:15:29 At all. He was so focused on his PhD-

Ali Abdaal 1:15:32 Mm

Krissy Cela 1:15:33 ... completing it, that he was not interested in anyone. And I was like, "Okay. No problem. We won't talk. I'm not chasing."

Ali Abdaal 1:15:39 Mm-hmm.

Krissy Cela 1:15:40 And then we didn't speak for three months, and then we kind of, our paths collided again.

Ali Abdaal 1:15:46 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:15:46 And then we got speaking. He fell in love with me. No, joking. We both, like, fell for each other hard, really, really, really hardly.

Ali Abdaal 1:15:55 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:15:56 And yeah, we've been together now about a year-

Ali Abdaal 1:15:59 Oh

Krissy Cela 1:15:59 ... and a bit. Um, but when I was speaking to Steven it was a three-month gap.

Ali Abdaal 1:16:04 Oh. Oh, that's why. Okay, got it. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:16:06 Yeah, so it all makes sense now.

Ali Abdaal 1:16:08 Oh, interesting.

Krissy Cela 1:16:08 So, um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Z- Brett is just... He just puts a smile on my face. He makes me happy. He puts a smile on my face. He's, he's very, very, very just sometimes, like, where's the common sense? But then you can't-

Ali Abdaal 1:16:23 Mm

Krissy Cela 1:16:23 ... have both, you know, book smart and common sense.

Ali Abdaal 1:16:25 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:16:25 Like, come on, you've gotta give, you've gotta give a guy something.

Ali Abdaal 1:16:28 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:16:28 So yeah, he, he, he's great.

Ali Abdaal 1:16:31 Um, how did you... So if he doesn't have social media and stuff, how did, how do you navigate the whole sort of to what extent you wanted the relationship to be public versus private?

Krissy Cela 1:16:38 I asked him. I said, "Do you feel comfortable with it? If you don't, we, I never need to showcase you."

Ali Abdaal 1:16:44 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:16:44 "I can tell people I'm taken, but we don't need to publicly announce it."

Ali Abdaal 1:16:48 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:16:48 He was like, "No, like, if you want to, we can." I, I... He goes to me, "But if I say, like, maybe no to videos, just respect that." And I said, "Of course."

Ali Abdaal 1:16:59 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:16:59 Like, I'm not gonna shove a f-

Ali Abdaal 1:17:00 Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:17:00 ... have it down your, down your throat. Sometimes he's a bit difficult, and I'm like, "Oh, my God, just be in it." And then he's like, "Don't wanna be in it today." And I'm like, "Okay. No problem."

Ali Abdaal 1:17:08 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:17:08 But then there's other moments where he's like, "Let's take a picture," and he, like, gets into it.

Ali Abdaal 1:17:13 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:17:13 So he's, he's really chilled. He is, he's the guy that really puts, he puts me first.

Ali Abdaal 1:17:20 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:17:21 He doesn't put himself first. He puts me first. He knows that if I need to be on my laptop working, he doesn't disturb. He knows that when I am giving him attention in the sense of when I'm not on my phone-

Ali Abdaal 1:17:32 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:17:33 ... like, that's genuine quality time.

Ali Abdaal 1:17:36 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:17:37 Because I don't give a lot of people that. And I have to be honest, like, I don't give people that quality time 'cause I don't even have it for myself.

Ali Abdaal 1:17:45 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:17:45 I don't. Like, I am giving it to my brands.

Ali Abdaal 1:17:48 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:17:48 So he respects that, and a lot of guys wouldn't respect that.

Ali Abdaal 1:17:52 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:17:52 A lot of guys would be like, "Get off your phone," or, "You never spend time with me," or, "You're not texting me back." Like, I think we text in the morning and a few times during the day, and that's it.

Ali Abdaal 1:18:00 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:18:02 I'm on my phone to work. I don't socialize on my phone. I don't have time to socialize. Very rare.

Ali Abdaal 1:18:08 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:18:08 And I don't want it to change. Like, I love my life. I don't want to go out clubbing and drinking every single weekend. That's not for me, you know?

Ali Abdaal 1:18:16 Okay. So I've been, I've been dating someone for a few months, and-

Krissy Cela 1:18:21 Do you? Okay

Ali Abdaal 1:18:22 ... she w- is very concerned about the whole public spotlight potential thing.

Krissy Cela 1:18:27 Oh, is she a bit nervous?

Ali Abdaal 1:18:29 Yeah. Um, have you, have you had any, like, negative repercussions from being semi-public about the relationship or relationships in the past?

Krissy Cela 1:18:37 No. I think, I think 'cause a lot of people saw my relationship with Jack-

Ali Abdaal 1:18:42 Mm

Krissy Cela 1:18:42 ... they were a bit, they were really upset when me and Jack did part ways-

Ali Abdaal 1:18:46 Mm

Krissy Cela 1:18:46 ... because they felt, like, so connected to me and Jack.

Ali Abdaal 1:18:48 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:18:49 But then now they see me and Brett, they, they're like, "I'm so happy for you." I think, don't do anything that puts pressure on her.

Ali Abdaal 1:18:56 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:18:56 But I think three months is very soon, so just, like-

Ali Abdaal 1:18:58 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:18:59 ... give her some more time.

Ali Abdaal 1:19:00 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:19:00 And I think, why not bring her to one of your work days?

Ali Abdaal 1:19:03 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:19:04 Why not let her, like, kind of s- sneak peek into your w- like, your genuine work?

Ali Abdaal 1:19:09 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:19:10 Um, because it will make her feel more com- com- comfortable and confident.

Ali Abdaal 1:19:13 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:19:14 And just be open with her and say, "Hey," like, "I-" No pressure, but the reason I wanna publicly announce you-

Ali Abdaal 1:19:20 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:19:20 ... is because, you know, I think you're the one.

Ali Abdaal 1:19:23 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:19:23 So why not celebrate that?

Ali Abdaal 1:19:25 Okay. Interesting. Um, did you feel like, given that yours and Jack's relationship was, was public, was there more pressure to keep it going even when things weren't working?

Krissy Cela 1:19:37 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 1:19:38 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:19:39 Yeah, 100%. We... I had checked out in my head a long time ago, and I think Jack had too.

Ali Abdaal 1:19:45 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:19:46 Jack's in a really happy relationship now. He's so in love with his new partner, and-

Ali Abdaal 1:19:50 Mm

Krissy Cela 1:19:51 ... you know, we haven't met yet, but I really, like, when we do meet, I just wanna say to her, "Listen, honey, you got nothing to worry about." [laughs]

Ali Abdaal 1:19:58 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:19:59 I know it's a bit awkward.

Ali Abdaal 1:20:00 Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:20:00 I get it. But I just want him to be happy.

Ali Abdaal 1:20:03 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:20:04 And I know we weren't happy with each other anymore for a while, and we were-

Ali Abdaal 1:20:07 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:20:07 ... really just, like, trying to make it work. So his happiness to me is absolutely everything.

Ali Abdaal 1:20:13 Mm. And I guess that's a, that's one of the risks of having a public relationship. It- it- it's sort of like it's harder to break up with someone once you moved in with them because there's, like, an extra layer of pressure.

Krissy Cela 1:20:22 And you own a house.

Ali Abdaal 1:20:22 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:20:23 And, and a company, and you own a car.

Ali Abdaal 1:20:25 Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:20:26 You own a dog. It was a lot, but, but, um, yeah, no. We, we were very, very, very respectful. There was no bitterness.

Ali Abdaal 1:20:35 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:20:35 There was no aggression. There was no nastiness. There was, "You're still part of this brand."

Ali Abdaal 1:20:42 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:20:43 "This is still your home. If you want your share, sure. If you wanna sell it, we'll sh- sell it together."

Ali Abdaal 1:20:48 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:20:48 Like, it was very amic- amicable? Amicable. I cannot... I can never say that word. Amicable. Amicable?

Ali Abdaal 1:20:56 [laughs] Amicable I think, yeah. That was good. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:20:59 It's fine. You're the one that told you, and sometimes I just mess up words, but-

Ali Abdaal 1:21:02 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:21:02 ... yeah, yeah, no. He- we're very respectful to one another. We have blowouts here and there-

Ali Abdaal 1:21:07 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:21:07 ... for work.

Ali Abdaal 1:21:08 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:21:09 But you're going to. You have pressure. You have a team of 30 people and-

Ali Abdaal 1:21:13 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:21:13 ... employees to pay and salaries to pay, and, you know, these people are putting food on, on their, on their kids, on the table for their kids.

Ali Abdaal 1:21:20 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:21:20 It's a big responsibility to have people's mortgages to pay.

Ali Abdaal 1:21:23 Yeah, no, it's mental. [laughs] Do you ever worry about, like, security? 'Cause you're, like, on the train and stuff, and I, I imagine people-

Krissy Cela 1:21:29 Never thought of that.

Ali Abdaal 1:21:30 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:21:30 I mean, for the office I did because we have a lot of stuff in the office.

Ali Abdaal 1:21:34 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:21:34 And I wanna take care of my employees.

Ali Abdaal 1:21:38 Mm.

Krissy Cela 1:21:39 But-

Ali Abdaal 1:21:40 Like personal security and stuff?

Krissy Cela 1:21:41 No.

Ali Abdaal 1:21:42 I've, I've just been seeing, I've, I've just been hearing a lot of, like, horror stories on the-

Krissy Cela 1:21:44 From who?

Ali Abdaal 1:21:46 Usually from, from, uh, YouTubers in America actually, where they're like, if they, if anyone gets a whiff of what, what their location is or where their office could be or even something in the background of one of their stories, people will figure out where they live and come to the house and it's all, like, sc- uh, [laughs] I'd have been like, "Oh, shit."

Krissy Cela 1:21:59 No.

Ali Abdaal 1:21:59 I'm not at all concerned. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:22:00 I have, I h-

Ali Abdaal 1:22:01 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:22:01 ... no, I have, I'm, alarm systems and security in my house.

Ali Abdaal 1:22:05 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:22:05 Yeah.

Ali Abdaal 1:22:05 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:22:06 Um, but I'm comfortable getting on trains and-

Ali Abdaal 1:22:10 Yeah. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:22:10 Yeah, I d- I don't think anyone wants to hurt me.

Ali Abdaal 1:22:13 Okay, well [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:22:14 I hope not.

Ali Abdaal 1:22:14 I don't mean to put the thought in your head, but [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:22:16 Damn, now you've really got me thinking. But no, I'm, I'm okay.

Ali Abdaal 1:22:19 Yeah.

Krissy Cela 1:22:19 I'm okay.

Ali Abdaal 1:22:20 Amazing. Um, I've just got a few kind of rapid fire questions-

Krissy Cela 1:22:22 Sure

Ali Abdaal 1:22:22 ... if you're, if you're down for that. Number one-

Krissy Cela 1:22:24 I'll say yes or no. Is that, is that the kind of thing we're going for?

Ali Abdaal 1:22:27 Uh, potentially, or m- maybe one-liners. [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:22:29 Fine, no problem.

Ali Abdaal 1:22:29 Okay.

Krissy Cela 1:22:30 Let's go.

Ali Abdaal 1:22:30 What advice would you give to your younger self?

Krissy Cela 1:22:33 Be patient.

Ali Abdaal 1:22:34 Excellent. Who's had the biggest influence on your career?

Krissy Cela 1:22:36 The community.

Ali Abdaal 1:22:37 Nice. Uh, what's one tip for someone looking for success?

Krissy Cela 1:22:40 Don't make it profit driven. Make it vision driven.

Ali Abdaal 1:22:42 Oh, nice. Um, what does the first and last hour of your day look like?

Krissy Cela 1:22:47 You really wanna know? [laughs]

Ali Abdaal 1:22:49 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:22:49 First hour, waking up and heading to the gym. Last hour, checking my, um, tag pictures for my community.

Ali Abdaal 1:22:57 Nice. Um, what material item under 100 pounds could you not live without?

Krissy Cela 1:23:01 Oh, God, my Oner Active.

Ali Abdaal 1:23:02 [laughs] Excellent. Uh, what book other than yours would you recommend to anyone?

Krissy Cela 1:23:07 Built To Last.

Ali Abdaal 1:23:08 Oh, interesting. I haven't read that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna read that tonight.

Krissy Cela 1:23:11 Mm.

Ali Abdaal 1:23:11 If you lost everything, how would you start a business again?

Krissy Cela 1:23:13 With my vision and mission and my why.

Ali Abdaal 1:23:15 Amazing. What quote or mantra do you live by?

Krissy Cela 1:23:17 Do this for you.

Ali Abdaal 1:23:18 Excellent. And finally, journey or destination?

Krissy Cela 1:23:20 Journey. Always the journey.

Ali Abdaal 1:23:23 Why-

Krissy Cela 1:23:23 I was thinking holidays then, and I was like-

Ali Abdaal 1:23:25 Yeah

Krissy Cela 1:23:25 ... why be fun? [laughs] But no, uh, journey, always.

Ali Abdaal 1:23:28 Amazing. Krissy, thank you so much for coming on.

Krissy Cela 1:23:30 Thank you for having me.

Ali Abdaal 1:23:31 It's been great.

Krissy Cela 1:23:32 Thank you so much.

Ali Abdaal 1:23:33 Thanks for being so open and honest and, um, about everything.

Krissy Cela 1:23:34 Always. A bit too open and honest.

Ali Abdaal 1:23:36 [laughs]

Krissy Cela 1:23:37 But I hope everyone enjoyed it, but thank you so much for having me.

Ali Abdaal 1:23:39 Yeah, thanks for coming on. And, uh, yeah, links to all your things will be in all the things. Everyone check the book out. It's very good. The tagline, "How to be a stronger woman from inside out," I, I sort of chuckled a bit when I posted that on my Instagram story, but it's, like, genuinely, I mean, there's a, there's a little bit about pregnancy and trimesters and stuff.

Krissy Cela 1:23:54 Yeah, but we can skip that bit-

Ali Abdaal 1:23:55 Beyond that it's, it's-

Krissy Cela 1:23:56 ... if you want to

Ali Abdaal 1:23:56 ... it's all very, it's all very gender-neutral. [laughs] So yeah, thank you.

Krissy Cela 1:24:01 Thank you so much.