How to Think Like the 1% Elite | Dr K

Dr. K 0:00 Why do people stay stuck? Because they believe it is impossible. 90% of people that I've worked with are fucking losers.

Codie Sanchez 0:05 [laughs]

Dr. K 0:06 What is it that allows them to move forward? They believe that what they want is possible. Difficulty is not created by the world. Difficulty is created by your response to the world.

Codie Sanchez 0:15 My guest is Dr. K, a Harvard-trained psychiatrist who is breaking down the most common psychology myths behind success and failure, and then how to build a feedback loop that improves you instead of eating you alive.

Dr. K 0:27 The difference between hard and easy is not the size of the task. It has to do with your understanding of the thing. If I take some dude off the street and I'm like, "Can you make a million-dollar business in a year?" They would say no.

Codie Sanchez 0:38 So where do you start if you want to start achieving the things that you want out of life?

Dr. K 0:43 So...

Codie Sanchez 0:47 So many people feel like they're stuck, like they can't move past some sort of mental block. They're struggling in their lives in some way. And even if you're a winner, you go through these moments. So I guess my question that I wanna start with is, like, one, do you see a lot of people who are stuck today?

Dr. K 1:03 Yes.

Codie Sanchez 1:03 And two, what do you tell them?

Dr. K 1:05 So I think the number one problem that I see just on the internet today is everyone is asking how to fix problems, whereas what they should be asking is what is the actual problem.

Codie Sanchez 1:15 Mm.

Dr. K 1:15 So if you ask me, like, how do you help someone who's stuck, I don't know, you, uh, I guess you get behind their car and you start pushing. That'll, that'll help if they're stuck, right?

Codie Sanchez 1:23 Yeah.

Dr. K 1:24 Isn't that the solution?

Codie Sanchez 1:25 Mm.

Dr. K 1:26 If they're stuck, if they're, like, in a wheelchair and they're trying to get up a stairs, like, you wheel them over to the elevator. Or is it, are they psychologically stuck? Are they stuck with alcohol?

Codie Sanchez 1:33 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 1:34 So right now what's going on, and this is in a, an effect of kind of how the internet is morphing. We're, we're morphing to 60-second segments-

Codie Sanchez 1:40 Mm-hmm

Dr. K 1:40 ... where there's no room for diagnosis.

Codie Sanchez 1:42 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 1:43 So a lot of the work that I do, and this is hard to describe, is I don't help people find solutions, I help people dissolve problems.

Codie Sanchez 1:53 Hmm.

Dr. K 1:53 'Cause even your problem is not exactly what you think it is, and most of what we do, if we talk about, like, kind of the work that I do, which is, like, enabling people, it's, like, helping people understand what the problem is.

Codie Sanchez 2:05 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 2:06 If you are unable to fix your problems, you're trying to solve the wrong problem. And one of the crazy things, I'll just give you an example, is I'd say 50% of people that I work with that are stuck aren't stuck, they're holding on.

Codie Sanchez 2:18 Hmm.

Dr. K 2:19 They're attached to something in their life. Simple example is let's take addiction. So I did a bunch of addiction psychiatry many years ago. And, um, you know, like, if you think about why is someone addicted to alcohol, it's not because alcohol is a problem, it's because alcohol is a solution.

Codie Sanchez 2:33 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 2:34 What are you staying attached to that is preventing you from moving forward?

Codie Sanchez 2:39 Hmm. So then what do you do? So if you figure out, okay, you're not stuck, you're holding on, you're choosing to hold on, then what's the next question?

Dr. K 2:46 So I think that depends on... So I'm a clinician, right, first and foremost, so I work with individuals with individual problems. And so we can still generalize certain principles. So I'll give you, like, an example. So I've worked with a couple of billionaires, but 90% of people that I've worked with are what would be described as fucking losers.

Codie Sanchez 3:03 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 3:04 So someone who's 26 years old, lives in mom's basement, doesn't do their own laundry, doesn't cook for themselves, jerks off all day. Like, this is the people that I work with. And there is, like, literally millions, if not hundreds of millions or billions, of young men who, like, no one is even bothering to help, no one is even aware of. So that's what I, that's what I set out to do. So I'm gonna tell you a story about one of these people. So I, I have a friend, for example, who's stuck, and his basic problem is that he doesn't allow himself to want.

Codie Sanchez 3:35 Hmm.

Dr. K 3:36 Wanting is the basic thing that gets us to move forward.

Codie Sanchez 3:39 Hmm.

Dr. K 3:40 Okay? But if you don't believe you can get what you want, and I see this with, like, founders and people who are super successful as well, they are really good at, like, "Oh yeah, like, I can build a, a billion-dollar company, but I can't get my kids to love and respect me."

Codie Sanchez 4:00 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 4:01 So then if, if you, if there is a problem in your life that you don't think that you can solve, what your mind will do is fucking bury it. And so what feels like stuckness is actually an, an intentional burying of your motivational circuitry.

Codie Sanchez 4:21 Hmm.

Dr. K 4:22 Because if I don't want anything, then I can never fail. If I don't want anything, then I don't have to try. If I don't want anything, and this is the most crippling thing, if you think about, like, the most crippling source of suffering for a human being, it is to want something that they cannot have. This is something that human beings try to avoid at all costs. So stuck is absence of want. Why do we have an absence of want? Because we believe that we cannot achieve it.

Codie Sanchez 4:49 Yeah.

Dr. K 4:50 When people w- want something and they believe it's possible, they will move towards it.

Codie Sanchez 4:55 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 4:55 Okay? And there are even studies on things like mice that are depressed, that you can drop a mi- mouse in a bucket that has one, like, subsurface, like, place that they can stand on, bucket of water, and so they'll swim around and they find the panel. Then what happens is you take out the panel so there's nowhere for the mouse to sit, and you drop it in a bucket and it swims around, it can't find anything, and eventually it's gonna run out of energy and drown. So a depressed mouse is one that gives up trying to find the panel faster.

Codie Sanchez 5:24 Hmm.

Dr. K 5:25 So when we believe something is not possible, we stop trying.

Codie Sanchez 5:30 Yeah.

Dr. K 5:30 Okay? So this is what's really... This is... Uh, forget about whether it's po- really possible or not possible. What we're talking about here is motivation. We're talking about what gets people unstuck. That has nothing to do with outcomes.

Codie Sanchez 5:40 Hmm.

Dr. K 5:40 That has to do with are you moving from zero steps to one step.

Codie Sanchez 5:43 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 5:44 So my goal is to teach people a healthy relationship with wanting.

Codie Sanchez 5:49 Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Dr. K 5:50 Right? So, like, my mission, I spent years as, uh, studying to become a monk and then, you know, became a psychiatrist and all that stuff, and did neuroscience research. And my, my hypothesis or my thesis is that if you understand and can master the most basic instrument- ... that you have, which is yourself, then everything in life becomes easy.

Codie Sanchez 6:15 Mm.

Dr. K 6:17 That the difficulty is not created by the world. Difficulty is created by your response to the world.

Codie Sanchez 6:22 Mm. So where do you start? Like, if you want to start achieving the things that you want out of life, where's the first place you tell people to go to start figuring out themselves?

Dr. K 6:35 So step one is not go. Step one is understand. And the really scary thing is if you look at, like, some of these Eastern contemplative traditions, they make a bold claim, which I, I'm, I think is correct, which I've been dragged to kicking and screaming. I've tried to argue against it, and I think I'm just wrong, which is that you don't need to do anything.

Codie Sanchez 6:56 Mm.

Dr. K 6:57 All you need to do is understand.

Codie Sanchez 6:59 Mm.

Dr. K 7:00 And that understanding is actually not only sufficient for change, but is the only thing that is necessary for change.

Codie Sanchez 7:10 Mm.

Dr. K 7:10 Which I know is, like, a crazy idea, because we're all about motivation and doing, but, like, what I realized recently is what is the difference between something that is hard... So if I asked you, Codie, let's say we, we s- start, you're starting from scratch. We wipe out all your net worth, wipe out all your social connections. Can you make a million-dollar business within... How long would it take you to make a million-dollar business?

Codie Sanchez 7:34 I think I could do it in a year.

Dr. K 7:35 Okay. So is that hard for you?

Codie Sanchez 7:38 Mm. I would say it's not easy, but it's simple. There's a straightforward path to it.

Dr. K 7:44 Great. Right, so if I take some dude off the street and I'm like, "Can you make a million-dollar business in a year?" They would say no.

Codie Sanchez 7:50 Yeah.

Dr. K 7:51 So what is the difference? And it's a, a beautiful, uh, nuance that you added. It's simple. It- you're not... A- and now what you're doing is you're moving away from effort. You see what you did there? Like, you're moving away from... Yeah, it'll take effort, but you're- it's simple. You know how to do it.

Codie Sanchez 8:08 Yeah.

Dr. K 8:08 And so this is the key thing. The difference between hard and easy is not the size of the task.

Codie Sanchez 8:13 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 8:14 Is, it has nothing to do with effort. It has to do with your understanding of the thing.

Codie Sanchez 8:19 Yeah. It's so interesting, because you, the way you talk about mental health is really similar to how we talk about businesses. My thesis that drives me insane is actually similar to yours in some way, which is that most business advice is only applicable to that business person.

Dr. K 8:35 I completely agree, 100%.

Codie Sanchez 8:36 If I go l-

Dr. K 8:37 100%

Codie Sanchez 8:37 ... listen to how Elon Musk runs his business, I think pretty highly of myself. I don't think that highly of myself. I can't go replicate what Elon does. So you could give me Elon's entire playbook, and I still won't make it. But if I have an understanding of who I am, then I can actually apply who I am, what are my skillsets to what I want, and then finally come up with a strategy that pairs those two things. So it's interesting. In our thing, we always say, like, first you diagnose the you, then you diagnose the want, which would be, like, do you want a lifestyle business? Do you want a scale business? Do you want an exit business?

Dr. K 9:09 Do you use the word diagnose?

Codie Sanchez 9:10 We do. Yeah. I-

Dr. K 9:11 Insane

Codie Sanchez 9:12 ... I will, I will prove it to you. I have it, like, on 47 di-

Dr. K 9:14 Insane

Codie Sanchez 9:14 ... uh, 47 PowerPoints. And then once you understand those two things, you can have a strategy that's like m- maybe there's similarity in your world, but I think in business there's, like, 12 core profit centers in every business, but you don't know which ones you should play with until-

Dr. K 9:31 Yeah

Codie Sanchez 9:31 ... you know who you are, what you want-

Dr. K 9:33 Yeah

Codie Sanchez 9:33 ... and then you can apply it to just about any business.

Dr. K 9:35 Love it.

Codie Sanchez 9:35 So super interesting.

Dr. K 9:36 Yeah. So, so I, and I, I think this is, this is what's hard to explain to people, is like, 'cause everyone is looking for an answer to their problems.

Codie Sanchez 9:44 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 9:45 But what I, what we try to do and, like, it's an interesting... We have a membership thing that we started a couple years ago, because I hated that what I wanted to teach was being dictated by the YouTube algorithm.

Codie Sanchez 9:58 Mm.

Dr. K 9:59 And what people will click on is not the same as what will be helpful to them.

Codie Sanchez 10:04 Yeah.

Dr. K 10:04 So I had a fundamental problem, and I was like, YouTube is great, and you can teach people a lot on YouTube, but there's, like, deeper stuff that is, like, how do you understand yourself?

Codie Sanchez 10:15 Mm.

Dr. K 10:16 And so then I started that, and it's been awesome.

Codie Sanchez 10:19 Mm.

Dr. K 10:19 Right? But it, the thing is, it's-

Codie Sanchez 10:20 What's your philosophy? How do you start to understand yourself? Like, do you have frameworks that you

Dr. K 10:26 Yeah

Codie Sanchez 10:26 ... like to fit?

Dr. K 10:27 So, so I think it depends. And so this is where we start with what the problem is.

Codie Sanchez 10:30 Yeah.

Dr. K 10:31 So, like, I'll give you, like, a kind of a simple example, which I, I think is, is maybe relevant to your audience, which is, like, you know, I, I think you're, you're, you kinda talk a lot about how you should own your business, your business should not own you.

Codie Sanchez 10:44 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 10:44 Right? So, like, inside every one of us is what I would call a yearning.

Codie Sanchez 10:49 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 10:49 This is, at the surface level, you have, like, your thoughts and your emotions and perceptions. We'll get to that. And then beneath that, you have your ego. Beneath that, you have some weird, deep psychological stuff, and beneath that you have, like, what I would call a yearning or, like, a calling. So it's not ego. It's not, like, psychological trauma. There are layers of that. But at, at the bottom is, like, something weird and spiritual. So I call it also dharma, duty.

Codie Sanchez 11:21 Mm.

Dr. K 11:21 There's karma involved. Karma, we can talk about all those, that, those ex- tho- I think those things are absolutely scientific. And so what starts to happen is you get into the business for some reason. So I, I wanna help people, and then I see, oh, this person is doing it, and this person is doing it this way, and this person is doing it this way. And so then what I start to do is I move away from myself towards those things. And this is really an important distinction. It's not that you shouldn't learn from other people, but that learning should center back into you and serve your mission instead of you chasing after and trying to duplicate what someone else does.

Codie Sanchez 12:02 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 12:03 Because the moment that you try to duplicate what someone else does, you said it beautifully, I'm gonna use different term, you have your own karma. You have your own set of advantages, your own set of disadvantages. You have your own, the way your dopaminergic circuitry is wired, what you get addicted to, what your social support system is, what your capital is. You cannot duplicate the success of anyone else.

Codie Sanchez 12:25 Mm.

Dr. K 12:26 And this is why it's so interesting. You have so many brilliant people giving advice about how to live life, and we have the fucking people are fucked right, left, and center.

Codie Sanchez 12:37 [laughs] So true.

Dr. K 12:39 Right? And the question is why.

Codie Sanchez 12:40 Yeah.

Dr. K 12:41 And that's because you can't duplicate the solution that someone else has. The best chance you've got, and I- I'm methodologically this is sound, outcomes-wise, scientifically this is sound, we can get into the research. You have to play from your position, right? So you can look at somebody else who wins a hand of poker with a royal flush, but if you've got, like, a three seven of hearts, it's not that you can't win, but the fastest way to lose is to use the strategy of the other guy. So your model of, like, diagnosis first is exactly where I go, and a big part of that is what is really driving you, how does ego enter the picture, and how are you being shaped by your perceptions?

Codie Sanchez 13:24 Mm.

Dr. K 13:24 But, like, I think ego is, like, a big part that, like, people don't understand, and if you don't understand ego, like, it's gonna run your life.

Codie Sanchez 13:32 How, how do you define ego?

Dr. K 13:34 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 13:34 How do you understand it and how do you overcome it?

Dr. K 13:36 Great. Uh, so it's not to be overcome, first thing. So ego, I love Sanskrit, so there's one... Can I, can I go, like, off track for a second?

Codie Sanchez 13:44 Yeah.

Dr. K 13:44 Okay. So the, the bit of depth. So in the West, the way that we learn things is through, like, instrumentation.

Codie Sanchez 13:50 Mm.

Dr. K 13:50 So we have X-rays, we have biopsies, we take blood tests, and in psychiatry we use words. That is the way that we try to understand what is someone's mind. Now, let me ask you, so this is what's also really interesting. We have no instrument that can measure the mind, right? EEG, electroencephalogram, doesn't measure the mind. fMRI doesn't measure the mind. It measures blood flow to the bla- brain. We're measuring physical structures, okay? So this is the fundamental difference-

Codie Sanchez 14:14 Mm

Dr. K 14:14 ... between Eastern psychology and Western psychology.

Codie Sanchez 14:17 Yeah.

Dr. K 14:17 You're the only one who has direct access to your own mind.

Codie Sanchez 14:20 Mm.

Dr. K 14:21 And so the system of psychology that they developed is not based on a model developed through words.

Codie Sanchez 14:28 Hmm.

Dr. K 14:28 It is based on internal observation, and we in the West, we hate that because it's a sample size of one.

Codie Sanchez 14:34 Mm.

Dr. K 14:34 It is subjective. Newsflash, there is no objective evidence of the existence of mind.

Codie Sanchez 14:41 Hmm.

Dr. K 14:43 You can't measure it, you ca-... And then bi- biological reductionists make a big mistake, which is they say, "Ah, doesn't exist."

Codie Sanchez 14:51 [laughs]

Dr. K 14:51 Since we can't measure it, it doesn't exist. Shared delusion by eight billion people on the planet, they say that mind is not real.

Codie Sanchez 14:57 Hmm.

Dr. K 14:57 No, it is real, it's just non-physical.

Codie Sanchez 14:59 Hmm.

Dr. K 14:59 It doesn't exist in the material world. We all know it's there, and it, we act on it through things like psychotherapy. So when we exert influences on the mind, we see outcomes that are measurable. Our, our intervention acts on the mind, the mind changes, and then we see outcomes. So it absolutely exists, it just exists in a space that science cannot touch yet, sort of. So we also have validated questionnaires and things like that, which we can touch it in some ways. We can directly measure. So now we get to ego. So in the West, they think that there are basically three pillars of mind.

Codie Sanchez 15:37 Mm.

Dr. K 15:37 You have thoughts, which is one thing. You have emotions, which is another thing. You have behaviors, which is a third thing. And then you have, like, memories, okay? So the yogis say there's a fourth part of the mind, which is ego. You have a sense of self. So, uh, this is, the word is ahamkara, and ahamkara is the feeling of I.

Codie Sanchez 15:58 Hmm.

Dr. K 15:59 So ahamkara is anything that comes after the words I am dot dot dot. So I am successful. I am a loser. Both of those things are true. I'm, like, absolutely loser, and I'm wildly successful. I'm an idiot, and I'm a genius.

Codie Sanchez 16:18 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 16:18 So anything that you add after I am is ahamkara. That is what the ego is. So any defining quality that you attach is not actually who you are, it is part of the clothing of your ego.

Codie Sanchez 16:31 Hmm, interesting. Great word.

Dr. K 16:33 But ego is all of the attributes that you attach to yourself. When you remove all of the sensory inputs and you exist without an object-

Codie Sanchez 16:42 Mm

Dr. K 16:42 ... to focus on, that is the goal of meditation, by the way.

Codie Sanchez 16:45 Mm.

Dr. K 16:46 And that is what, like, fucking heals people, because all of these problems of the ego literally cease to exist.

Codie Sanchez 16:54 You have so many perspectives that are two worlds combining.

Dr. K 16:57 Mm-hmm.

Codie Sanchez 16:58 Right? Um, not that normal for a monk to go to med school, as far as I'm aware. Um, what do you think people get really wrong when they go to psychologists or psychiatrists? Like for instance, and this is sort of a gross generalization, I've had different therapists for years-

Dr. K 17:16 Mm-hmm

Codie Sanchez 17:16 ... at varying points in my life. By and large, I found them not very helpful.

Dr. K 17:20 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 17:20 And so it would be like we'd be talking about the same thing sort of continuously. You'd have some set amount of time. I'd be repeating all the things that annoyed me that day, and then, um, really not a lot of change would happen. Almost no direction, no specific next te- steps. I like specificity. And now it almost seems like, you know, we're more, uh, therapized than we've ever been in society while simultaneously being less happy. Um, why is that? What are we doing so fucking wrong?

Dr. K 17:51 Somewhere along the way, therapy became, got a monopoly on helping people.

Codie Sanchez 17:57 [laughs] Yeah.

Dr. K 17:58 So simple example of this is the fundamental idea that talking about your problems, about your emotions, is the gold standard for being better.

Codie Sanchez 18:10 Mm.

Dr. K 18:11 So 70% of, of therapists are women, 70% of patients, this is changing now thankfully, but you know, 70% of patients are women. And this idea that talk therapy is the way, that simply using words. Now, words, and, and there, there's a really good mechanism here, right? So it is very effective. I do talk therapy. I love doing talk therapy, but I also do yogic practice, tantric practice. I also, when I, I had a 15-year-old who was addicted to video games, my solution to that is I'm gonna take an MIT incubator where I have a, a client and I'm gonna ask them, "Hey, will you guys take a 15-year-old as a, as an intern?" And they're like, "Sure." Right? So I, I think somewhere along the way when you have a mental problem, people will say, "Go see a therapist," for, like, all kinds of medical, legal reasons too. And so somewhere along the way a lot of people went to therapy, and therapy is not designed to help them with their problems. Or based on what their personality is, they, they're not good candidates for therapy.

Codie Sanchez 19:13 You are so right because you're- it's never bad to say, "Oh, you should, you should go to therapy." That's always like, no, no, that's great. That's exactly... That's a safe piece of advice as opposed to, I mean, we have a dear friend in, uh, North Carolina, and it was funny. She was super depressed, um, you know, overweight, uh, really unhappy in life. And, you know, my husband kind of jokingly made a comment one day. He's like, "Well, you do work inside, like, 15 hours a day and not move your body a lot, and, uh, thus you can't really sleep very well. Like, maybe you should go throw some weights around and get some vitamin D." And at the time she was really pissed. She was like, "Fuck you, I am depressed." Lo and behold, she goes on more walks, she gets more vitamin D, and she works out, and that actually worked great for her.

Dr. K 19:56 Absolutely, right? So, so, uh, something that happens a lot in the manosphere is when you get dumped they're like, "Hit the gym, bro."

Codie Sanchez 20:01 Yeah. [laughs]

Dr. K 20:02 You know, you don't have to, like, grieve and cry and stuff like that. Like, hit the gym.

Codie Sanchez 20:04 What do you think about that advice? Is that what you think too?

Dr. K 20:06 I think it's really good advice.

Codie Sanchez 20:07 [laughs]

Dr. K 20:07 I, I, I th- I think it's a piece, right?

Codie Sanchez 20:09 Yeah.

Dr. K 20:09 So this is where we get to mechanism-

Codie Sanchez 20:11 Yeah

Dr. K 20:11 ... where people grossly underest- Like, a big, big thing that a lot of people don't understand, this is why I think mental illness is getting so bad, somewhere along the way we started to think that mental illness is, is in the mind, which I think is fundamentally incorrect. So there's a study that, like, blew my mind. Have you ever heard of a stool transplant?

Codie Sanchez 20:30 Yeah.

Dr. K 20:31 Right? So you have someone who has a certain kind of gut bacteria. They're depressed. And the intervention that we do is we take poop from another human being and we give it to them. Either we insert it from the rectum or they take it orally. [laughs] It's like a probiotic, right?

Codie Sanchez 20:50 And this works?

Dr. K 20:51 And it works, right? So you'll see, like, a somewhere between a 30 and 70% reduction in symptoms of depression with not one bit of psychotherapy, not one moment of talking about your problems.

Codie Sanchez 21:04 How many people actually try that as opposed to talk therapy?

Dr. K 21:07 Very few, because I think stool transplants are still in the, the research phase and, and the clinical interventions are not, and then we gotta get the money stool, which, like...

Codie Sanchez 21:16 [laughs]

Dr. K 21:17 So the, you know, which I, I don't know if we have, but...

Codie Sanchez 21:21 That's a whole new side income business I have not pondered yet.

Dr. K 21:24 Yes.

Codie Sanchez 21:25 Maybe in the future.

Dr. K 21:25 Yeah, just high quality shit.

Codie Sanchez 21:27 [laughs] But actually that's really interesting because it's probably also not as profitable. You know, talk therapy for... I mean, how many people do we all know that have gone to talk therapy for, like, 15 or 20 years and nothing's fucking changed? That's a lot of billable hours.

Dr. K 21:40 A lot of them wind up in my, uh, office.

Codie Sanchez 21:42 They do?

Dr. K 21:43 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 21:43 Interesting.

Dr. K 21:44 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 21:44 As opposed to if I can do a steel- stool transplant I can feel some sort of trigger change, and then I can have actual habit change. Maybe my life could actually change.

Dr. K 21:52 Yeah, so I, I think this is where specific, like you said, you have in your framework there are 12 fundamental areas of profit.

Codie Sanchez 21:58 Yeah.

Dr. K 21:58 So I think the mistake that therapy makes is there's one. So here, here's the conception that I think is, like, functionally useful.

Codie Sanchez 22:04 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 22:05 It's something called pancha kosha.

Codie Sanchez 22:07 Mm.

Dr. K 22:07 Kosha means sheath.

Codie Sanchez 22:08 Okay.

Dr. K 22:09 So pancha means five.

Codie Sanchez 22:10 Okay.

Dr. K 22:11 One aspect of our being, which is our sheath, uh, our food body is the way-

Codie Sanchez 22:15 Yeah

Dr. K 22:15 ... to think about it. That's our physical form. So there's certain ways to take care of the physical body.

Codie Sanchez 22:19 Yeah.

Dr. K 22:19 Then the second layer of our being is pranamaya kosha, which is our energy body.

Codie Sanchez 22:24 Uh-huh.

Dr. K 22:25 Then third layer is, uh, our emotional mind.

Codie Sanchez 22:28 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 22:29 So that's our emotions.

Codie Sanchez 22:30 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 22:30 Fourth layer is the, I guess you could say the analytical mind, our reasoning capability, cognition.

Codie Sanchez 22:37 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 22:37 Right? So a Western psychiatry has, has actions, emotions, and, and, and, like, cognitive stuff. And then the fifth, fifth layer, which I call soul or the spiritual body, which I now understand is different, but that's probably not for today. So, so then there, there are interventions at the level of, like, purely spiritual-

Codie Sanchez 22:58 Mm-hmm

Dr. K 22:59 ... which most people don't.

Codie Sanchez 23:01 Which would be like praying.

Dr. K 23:04 Um, n- not unless you do it right.

Codie Sanchez 23:07 Interesting. Deep meditation?

Dr. K 23:10 Yes. So this is where I would, I would, uh, talk about tantra or tantra.

Codie Sanchez 23:15 Hmm.

Dr. K 23:15 So I think, like, tantric interventions.

Codie Sanchez 23:18 What is t- tantra? I think about that as a sexual...

Dr. K 23:21 Yeah, so tantra is translated as technique. You know, you can make, like, a prediction based on a model or analytics, but then sometimes when you start a business or you launch something you put some oomph into it-

Codie Sanchez 23:37 Yeah

Dr. K 23:37 ... that is not mental, that is not hours of labor. Is that, does that map on or resonate to you at all? That sometimes you got the oomph.

Codie Sanchez 23:45 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. K 23:47 So, like, when I try to explore what is that oomph, and I think a lot of people who are successful will know that there's something that is not describable or reducible to an analytical model.

Codie Sanchez 23:58 Yeah, like when you say I was turned, I, like I really turned it on today.

Dr. K 24:01 Exactly.

Codie Sanchez 24:01 I was really in flow today.

Dr. K 24:03 Yes, yes. Right? So then we have some of these approximasa- uh, make, uh, um, a- approximations of Shakti, which is flow. So flow is the gateway to Shakti.

Codie Sanchez 24:12 Mm.

Dr. K 24:12 From a, from a neuroscience mechanistic standpoint, flow is the verifiable door to something greater. Flow is not the goal.

Codie Sanchez 24:20 Mm.

Dr. K 24:21 It's the first step.

Codie Sanchez 24:22 Yeah.

Dr. K 24:22 The problem is that the more subjective we become, the more that we go towards the mind, the further we move away from science-

Codie Sanchez 24:28 Mm

Dr. K 24:28 ... and the less verifiable things become.

Codie Sanchez 24:31 Mm.

Dr. K 24:32 And then we get to function, because it's like, do you wanna do something that is verified, or do you wanna do something that works?

Codie Sanchez 24:37 I wanna do some rapid fire-

Dr. K 24:39 Okay, sure

Codie Sanchez 24:39 ... if you're down for that. I wanna rapid fire some, like, tropes that I've heard.

Dr. K 24:43 Okay.

Codie Sanchez 24:43 And you tell me quickly true, false, why. Um, it takes 21 days to build a habit.

Dr. K 24:50 For some people.

Codie Sanchez 24:50 [laughs] Uh, we only use 10% of our brains.

Dr. K 24:57 False.

Codie Sanchez 24:58 Tell me why.

Dr. K 24:59 I mean, 100% of our brain is active basically 100% of the time. Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 25:03 Okay, so we've just been sold a bag of goods. Time heals all wounds.

Dr. K 25:08 Absolutely false.

Codie Sanchez 25:09 Why?

Dr. K 25:11 If you get a fracture and you just leave it alone, 10 years from now it may heal to some degree, but it's not gonna heal right.

Codie Sanchez 25:18 Mm.

Dr. K 25:19 So time may heal all wounds, but it'll heal them in a broken, fucked up way.

Codie Sanchez 25:23 So good. You have to love yourself before anyone can love you.

Dr. K 25:27 Other way around.

Codie Sanchez 25:30 Explain that.

Dr. K 25:31 We learn how to love ourselves from as a refle- we are, the modeling of how to love me comes from other people. How do I love me? My parents teach me that.

Codie Sanchez 25:42 That's true. It is what it is, radical acceptance generally.

Dr. K 25:48 Uh, absolutely true, but gets hijacked by ego all the time. Is a great way to avoid responsibility. Yeah, sorry. This is who I am. If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best.

Codie Sanchez 26:02 Yeah, I've seen that Marilyn Ro- Monroe quote a lot. Actually, you know what another one is that I wanna throw in there? Um, what about radical transparency always?

Dr. K 26:13 Satya should always be subject to ahimsa. Truth should always be subject to non-violence.

Codie Sanchez 26:21 Mm.

Dr. K 26:21 Truth should... So if you have a choice between being honest and being hurtful, or, hurt is not worth truth, basically. Right?

Codie Sanchez 26:31 Like that, yep. Every motherfucker I've ever met who always has, like, radical truth or radical honesty in their profile, I alway- I always end up like-

Dr. K 26:39 Yeah, I think it's, it's a license to be an asshole.

Codie Sanchez 26:42 It's a total license [laughs]

Dr. K 26:43 Yeah

Codie Sanchez 26:43 ... to be an asshole, and then tell you why they're polyamorous and it's okay. I think, though, they go hand-in-hand.

Dr. K 26:48 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 26:48 That's just my science. Um, what about the body keeps the score?

Dr. K 26:52 Absolutely.

Codie Sanchez 26:53 Interesting.

Dr. K 26:54 No doubt.

Codie Sanchez 26:55 Depression is a chemical imbalance. Chemical, mental, spiritual, all? Why?

Dr. K 27:02 Uh, it's not. So there's a great mo- a paper from Molecular Psychiatry that actually sh- uh, makes a really strong case. We have really no evidence that depression is a, an, a neurochemical imbalance. We believe that because SSRIs, which boost serotonin transmission, work with depression. So then we reverse engineered the cause because a treatment works.

Codie Sanchez 27:24 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 27:25 And then, yeah, I, I, so I, I don't, I don't think it's a neurochemical imbalance, but there's probably some, s- there's, uh, or it's a piece of it. Let's say if, it's a third.

Codie Sanchez 27:35 Mm. Do you get murdered on the internet when you say that?

Dr. K 27:38 No.

Codie Sanchez 27:38 Really?

Dr. K 27:39 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 27:40 I get in a lot of trouble if I say, "Are we always just depressed, or might we just need to take a different action?" They're like, "How dare you say I'm not depressed?" I'm like, "Well, I'm not sure that was the point of that statement."

Dr. K 27:51 H- here's another point. I think there's a difference between depression and unhappiness.

Codie Sanchez 27:55 And most people are what, un- unhappy or depressed?

Dr. K 27:59 Uh, most people are unhappy, and they can have depression on top.

Codie Sanchez 28:03 Mm-hmm.

Dr. K 28:03 These are two independent things.

Codie Sanchez 28:05 Everyone needs therapy.

Dr. K 28:08 No. So I think people who believe that everyone needs therapy want to live in a world where everyone behaves in a way that they want them to behave. I can't walk through a world where people are fucked up. I want everyone to be healed, and if the, if everybody else is perfect, then I, then I'll be happy, because I won't have any friction with anybody. Everyone doesn't need therapy.

Codie Sanchez 28:30 That reminds me of the African proverb, which is like, "Do you wanna pave the world in leather or wear leather shoes?"

Dr. K 28:36 Excellent.

Codie Sanchez 28:37 You know?

Dr. K 28:37 Love it.

Codie Sanchez 28:38 Let's try the leather shoes. Manifestation is real.

Dr. K 28:42 Uh, is real, but 99% of people don't know how to do it. There's a scientific mechanism behind it, which all the new age people who believe in manifestation, none of them are rigorous.

Codie Sanchez 28:52 How do we become rigorous? I wanna manifest for real. I got a lot of-

Dr. K 28:55 Tantra.

Codie Sanchez 28:55 Oh, this is what, this is-

Dr. K 28:57 Yeah

Codie Sanchez 28:57 ... where you go back to.

Dr. K 28:57 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 28:58 Yeah, because my problem is, you look around Austin, a lot of the people who are manifesting and meditating and crystalling all day rent apartments, not by choice.

Dr. K 29:08 Yeah, so I've worked with one guru who his rate of training is five figures for round one, and multiple cycles of that, six figures for round two, and seven figures for round three. And he is so effective that people will start his stuff with, at like with a net worth of, like, $50,000. And, and the money will come.

Codie Sanchez 29:42 Interesting.

Dr. K 29:42 It's insane. So I would love to do a scientific study on this, and I, I try to collect data, but I think manifestation is real if done properly, and 99% of people who don't, who talk about it don't know how to do it, haven't done a rigorous study of, like, how it actually works or experimental trials.

Codie Sanchez 30:00 Interesting.

Dr. K 30:01 So to believe that manifestation is not real without a scientific exploration for it is in and of itself unscientific.

Codie Sanchez 30:10 Yeah, that's a good point.

Dr. K 30:11 Right? So if you wanna know whether something works or not, you have to test it.

Codie Sanchez 30:15 Yeah. Except heroin. I'm fine. I don't wanna test that one, you know? I guess there's lots of studies that it does in fact lead to massive addiction.

Dr. K 30:23 Sure.

Codie Sanchez 30:23 So I don't, I don't need to play with it.

Dr. K 30:24 And there are plenty of studies that show that it doesn't, and-

Codie Sanchez 30:26 Get out. Really?

Dr. K 30:28 60% of, I think, soldiers in Vietnam used heroin, and only 9% remained addicted after coming back to the US.

Codie Sanchez 30:34 God, I didn't know that

Dr. K 30:35 Yeah

Codie Sanchez 30:35 That's so interesting. I just assumed I'll never try that thing, 'cause the way people talk about it looks too, they like-

Dr. K 30:40 I would highly recommend that you don't try

Codie Sanchez 30:41 [laughs] This is what my doctor, as of this moment, because you still have it on paper, says. Okay, I like this. Um, last one, happiness is a choice?

Dr. K 30:51 Happiness is a cultivatable skill

Codie Sanchez 30:53 Oh, that's a good-

Dr. K 30:54 It's not a choice

Codie Sanchez 30:55 If you had to leave somebody here who's listening to this podcast with, like, one place to start, one truth, you like the pursuit of truth, one next step, tactical, what would it be?

Dr. K 31:08 Understand your problems before you solve them

Codie Sanchez 31:10 Yeah. And spend more time on that than the, just the fixing

Dr. K 31:13 Yeah, and one quick tip about that. One of the biggest reasons that that's hard to do is one way that the mind runs away from problems is by manufacturing bigger ones that demand your attention-

Codie Sanchez 31:26 Mm

Dr. K 31:26 ... especially for entrepreneurs whose personal life is a mess

Codie Sanchez 31:33 Should we all go to an ashram? Do you think I would like an ashram? I'm kind of intrigued

Dr. K 31:37 No

Codie Sanchez 31:37 I would [laughs] not, I would not like it.

Dr. K 31:38 I mean, you can go if you want.

Codie Sanchez 31:39 Yeah

Dr. K 31:39 I don't think you need to

Codie Sanchez 31:41 Really?

Dr. K 31:41 Yeah

Codie Sanchez 31:42 Why not?

Dr. K 31:43 So everything is an intervention

Codie Sanchez 31:44 Mm-hmm

Dr. K 31:45 SSRI has a goal

Codie Sanchez 31:47 Yeah, true

Dr. K 31:48 Therapy has a goal. Ashram has a goal. If you wanna do a dedicated spiritual practice, you can go to an ashram. If you wanna eat the food and be in the environment and things like that, you should go. But I think that the nice thing is that there's a lot of great spiritual practice that you can learn here. So if you want to go, then go. But should you go? That depends on what you want. If you wanna go, go

Codie Sanchez 32:07 Yeah

Dr. K 32:08 Why would you go to an ashram? To do internal work.

Codie Sanchez 32:10 Yeah

Dr. K 32:10 But internal work is done internally

Codie Sanchez 32:12 Yeah

Dr. K 32:12 It can be done anywhere. So if you want the, the lifestyle and the diet and the atmosphere and the social connection, the environment, then go to an ashram

Codie Sanchez 32:21 No, orange is not my color. I don't think that would be... Did you wear orange when you were there?

Dr. K 32:24 No, I'm not a s- I'm not a s- a sanyas- I mean a swami

Codie Sanchez 32:27 So is there any d- dress code at, was there a dress code at your ashram?

Dr. K 32:31 Uh, sorta. I mean, people wore natural things, but my most recent dress code is I hate clothes

Codie Sanchez 32:35 [laughs]

Dr. K 32:36 So I started doing-

Codie Sanchez 32:37 So you were at a nudist ashram?

Dr. K 32:38 No, I mean, I'll wear a chaddi, uh, but like-

Codie Sanchez 32:40 What is that?

Dr. K 32:41 ... I, like this, like a underwear

Codie Sanchez 32:43 Okay

Dr. K 32:43 But like-

Codie Sanchez 32:43 I love that you point down there and say the word like I'm gonna know what that is

Dr. K 32:46 [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 32:47 You're like, "Yeah, it's chaddi." Like, what, uh-

Dr. K 32:47 So, so, so I, I, I've done some very serious spiritual practice in the last two years

Codie Sanchez 32:52 In your underwear

Dr. K 32:53 Uh, huh?

Codie Sanchez 32:53 In your underwear

Dr. K 32:54 And I, I, like, can't wear clothes anymore.

Codie Sanchez 32:56 [laughs]

Dr. K 32:56 Like, this is painful

Codie Sanchez 32:58 We- [laughs]

Dr. K 32:59 Yeah

Codie Sanchez 33:00 That is wild

Dr. K 33:01 Yeah, it's weird. I-

Codie Sanchez 33:02 I can't actually wait for this headline, which is like, "Harvard psychiatrist no longer wears clothes"

Dr. K 33:07 I hate, I hate clothes

Codie Sanchez 33:09 So next podcast, no clothing

Dr. K 33:13 I'll think about it. [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 33:15 That does-

Dr. K 33:15 There's, there's some, there's some branding stuff, right, where like how you name things, and it's like...

Codie Sanchez 33:20 That does seem like that would do really well on Twitch. HealthyGamer everywhere-

Dr. K 33:24 Yeah

Codie Sanchez 33:24 ... on social?

Dr. K 33:25 So YouTube, and then I think if people wanna learn the deep stuff-

Codie Sanchez 33:29 Yeah

Dr. K 33:29 ... which, like, what are they gonna get? The answer is I don't know, but it's, you're gonna get the stuff that you didn't know you needed. That's over in our membership

Codie Sanchez 33:36 And where's that?

Dr. K 33:37 HealthyGamer

Codie Sanchez 33:38 Yeah

Dr. K 33:38 Yeah

Codie Sanchez 33:38 Same thing. This was amazing.

Dr. K 33:39 Thank you so much

Codie Sanchez 33:40 Thank you for coming on.

Dr. K 33:40 Thank you for having me. [outro music]