The Mindset Shift That Made Me Millions | Robert Herjavec

Robert Herjavec 0:00 Fear is what holds us back. A players move the needle forward. B players wallow in misery. The difference between successful people and others is not that they don't have bad days, it's how long they allow themselves to wallow in misery.

Codie Sanchez 0:15 Robert Herjavec went from wanting nothing except to not be poor, to building and selling companies worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Today, Robert is gonna break down why money isn't what's holding you back, and the leadership mistake that quietly destroys great companies.

Robert Herjavec 0:29 You can't have a great pitch unless people are listening. The first thing you have to do is get people to listen before you get them to hear.

Codie Sanchez 0:38 What are the biggest lessons you've learned about sales?

Robert Herjavec 0:41 The biggest lesson I've learned...

Codie Sanchez 0:47 What do you think stops most people from breaking out from broke?

Robert Herjavec 0:52 Ooh, fear.

Codie Sanchez 0:54 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 0:54 Abso-friggin-lutely fear. Fear of failure, uh, fear of embarrassment, um, fear of rejection. Like, fear is what holds us back. Like, kids don't understand no until we teach it to them.

Codie Sanchez 1:16 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 1:16 And our entire life we're brought up with, "You can't do this. Don't go there. Don't do that," and it becomes ingrained, especially in immigrants.

Codie Sanchez 1:24 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 1:24 Don't be too loud. Don't make too big a deal of yourself. All those things. And I think people are just afraid. I think that's what holds them back. And also, I hate to say it, many people are lazy. Fear of hard work.

Codie Sanchez 1:40 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 1:40 Like, you know what it's like. Like, I worked really, really hard.

Codie Sanchez 1:47 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 1:48 But people don't see the 20 hours you put in, they see the end result.

Codie Sanchez 1:52 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 1:52 And I think a lot of people are afraid to work hard-

Codie Sanchez 1:55 Mm

Robert Herjavec 1:56 ... because they don't know if it's gonna pay off. Like, if we all knew how the book was going to end-

Codie Sanchez 2:02 Mm

Robert Herjavec 2:02 ... we would never read a book.

Codie Sanchez 2:04 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 2:04 And that's your life. Like, you don't know how it's going to end, but you have the ability to control the outcome.

Codie Sanchez 2:11 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 2:11 But it's hard. You know, you're working out there, you're not going to parties, you're not hanging out, your life doesn't seem to be progressing forward. You're inching along, hoping that it all works out one day. And I think people get scared. They're like, "What if it doesn't? I'm losing all of this."

Codie Sanchez 2:30 Yeah. You know what's interesting is I've never thought about it that way. It's not even fear of hard work, it's fear of, "What if I'm giving up my life for something that never actually happens?" But-

Robert Herjavec 2:41 I think most people are willing to put in hard work if they can see immediate results.

Codie Sanchez 2:47 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 2:48 How many people are willing to put in the hours and the minutes and the months and the years without seeing hard, tangible results?

Codie Sanchez 3:00 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 3:00 Like, I spent 10 years to buy a Ferrari.

Robert Herjavec 3:07 And it wasn't a new Ferrari, it was a very old Ferrari. It barely ran, but the 10 years of hard work never dissuaded me from getting there.

Codie Sanchez 3:21 So what do you say to yourself when you don't wanna keep working hard and you kind of want to give up? What's your inner monologue?

Robert Herjavec 3:29 I have this trick. So I'm a big runner. I run every day, and I try to do a long run at least once a week, like 10, 15 miles.

Codie Sanchez 3:37 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 3:39 And people often say, "Oh, you must love running." And I frigging hate running.

Codie Sanchez 3:42 [laughs]

Robert Herjavec 3:44 There are many days where I didn't wanna run, but I've never had a day where I don't feel better after a run. Somewhere during the run, I wanna quit. I'm sore, I'm tired, this hurts, I'm old. Bah. And I, so I'm running fast and I slow down. I never walk, but I'm barely running.

Codie Sanchez 4:06 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 4:08 And then I say to myself, "Are you a loser? Are you a quitter?" And the minute in my mind I say that, I keep going. I will... My legs will fall off before I stop.

Codie Sanchez 4:25 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 4:26 But I, my mind is like, "Don't say it. Don't say it." [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 4:29 [laughs]

Robert Herjavec 4:29 "It'll be easier to just stop."

Codie Sanchez 4:32 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 4:33 And I think for me, it comes from a greater purpose.

Codie Sanchez 4:39 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 4:40 So why did I start? Why did you start the journey? And going back to your original question, most people don't succeed because they have easy, flippant goals. Why do you wanna start a business, Codie? "Oh, I wanna be a millionaire." Okay, well, that's interesting. Why do you wanna be a millionaire? "Well, it'd be ni-" Like, I wanted to make money to justify my parents' sacrifice for my life.

Codie Sanchez 5:08 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 5:08 My parents came here at 37 years old, no money, left jail, came on a boat with one suitcase to a country they knew nobody and had no money. So what am I gonna do with my life? Just get by?

Codie Sanchez 5:26 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 5:26 Like, like, I'm the only kid. I felt if I didn't do something, it wouldn't justify their sacrifice.

Codie Sanchez 5:32 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 5:32 And so it's, it's purpose. You gotta have a greater purpose. Why are you starting your business? Are you doing it for somebody? Are you doing it to build something great? Like, I think you just gotta keep going.

Codie Sanchez 5:44 Yeah. It's a good thing to ponder. Like, if you don't have that one line or that little story that's gonna keep you going, you're gonna have a dark night of the soul where you give up. And-

Robert Herjavec 5:54 It's true. You know, I think about this all the time with my kids.

Codie Sanchez 5:57 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 5:57 Like, people are like, "Gosh, you're so motivated." It was relatively easy for me to be motivated, because my life was so hard. And I think when your life is hard, you get to a point where you either accept it-

Codie Sanchez 6:13 Mm

Robert Herjavec 6:13 ... or you say, "I don't wanna live like this."

Codie Sanchez 6:17 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 6:17 "I gotta change it." But what if your life is always easy? What if everything you want or dream about is there? Where's that hardship come from? And I always worry about that. Like, if... And you don't have to be rich to have an easy life. You can be middle class and have an easy life.

Codie Sanchez 6:37 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 6:37 You can be, you know, lower class and have an easy life. But how do you get that motivation?

Codie Sanchez 6:44 Oh, yeah. We, we jokingly call... We spend a bunch of time in San Diego, like I told you, but we would never have an office there, and we would never live there full time, because we call it the place where young people go to retire.

Robert Herjavec 6:53 [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 6:54 And so it's like, you know, everybody's just... There's nothing wrong with it. You can do you, but everybody's kinda baristing, yoga instructing, just doing just enough-

Robert Herjavec 7:02 Right, just getting, yeah

Codie Sanchez 7:03 ... to go to the beach every day.

Robert Herjavec 7:05 It's a great point. You asked me earlier, who, who do I like to hire? I like to hire people with military service.

Codie Sanchez 7:10 Mm, yeah.

Robert Herjavec 7:11 People with military going to this point, they understand a greater purpose.

Codie Sanchez 7:15 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 7:16 Life is about having a greater purpose than yourself.

Codie Sanchez 7:20 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 7:20 And so people in the military fully understand that.

Codie Sanchez 7:24 How do you know if you are an A player or not? Like, I think a lot of people think that they're A players, but, like, what are the characteristics? You're like, "You'll know if you're an A player if you have these characteristics."

Robert Herjavec 7:36 Gosh, that's such a great question. What do you think?

Codie Sanchez 7:38 I mean, I'm so biased, but I, I mean, a couple things. One, high signal to noise. Like, the things that you say and how you communicate is usually pretty direct and to the point, because you don't wanna waste people's time.

Robert Herjavec 7:50 Ooh, that's a great point.

Codie Sanchez 7:51 You know, you follow through on the things that you say you're going to do. Uh, very rare, actually. [laughs]

Robert Herjavec 7:56 Right.

Codie Sanchez 7:57 You know, you, uh, are a proactive communicator and executor, so you don't always have to do everything right, but say, "Hey, I'm working on this. I know I was gonna get it to you by that date. It's actually not gonna happen. I'm gonna do it at this date." And then four, I think you actually like hard things, not just you do them, but you've got kinda-

Robert Herjavec 8:12 Mm

Codie Sanchez 8:12 ... like that sickness in you.

Robert Herjavec 8:13 That's true.

Codie Sanchez 8:14 You know?

Robert Herjavec 8:14 I like hard things.

Codie Sanchez 8:15 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 8:15 I would say adaptability-

Codie Sanchez 8:19 Yeah

Robert Herjavec 8:19 ... and progress.

Codie Sanchez 8:22 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 8:23 A players move the ball or the needle forward.

Codie Sanchez 8:28 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 8:28 B players get stuck in repetition-

Codie Sanchez 8:32 Mm

Robert Herjavec 8:32 ... or something.

Codie Sanchez 8:35 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 8:35 And I think B players wallow in misery.

Codie Sanchez 8:38 Ooh.

Robert Herjavec 8:38 Adaptability is the ability to wallow quickly and move on.

Codie Sanchez 8:45 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 8:46 Like, I can't change the past.

Codie Sanchez 8:48 I know.

Robert Herjavec 8:48 It is what it is. Uh, Barbara Corcoran and I had this great conversation, and I asked her a similar question. And she said, "You know, when I made..." She sold her company for $52 million, and people always said to her, "Did you ever have a bad day after that?" And she's like, "Are you kidding? I had lots of bad days." She said, "But the difference between successful people and others is not that they don't have bad days. It's how long they allow themselves to wallow in misery."

Codie Sanchez 9:19 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 9:19 And I've always remembered that, 'cause, you know, you have a bad day, I have a bad day. My bad days are limited to very short periods of time, 'cause I've learned nobody gives a shit.

Codie Sanchez 9:29 Nobody gives a shit.

Robert Herjavec 9:30 Nobody cares. You just gotta move on, work harder.

Codie Sanchez 9:34 Oh, it's so true. It's funny, you know, today I was telling one of my producers, Dee, who you met, um, this morning was funny, because very little things, but, you know, I was getting ready, and I had this hair and makeup lady, and she's super late, so I'm gonna be late to Robert, and we're down in San Diego. And then she leaves the house, and I got, like, one eyelash sorta glued to my forehead-

Robert Herjavec 9:51 [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 9:51 ... and the makeup looks awful, so I redid it. And then, you know, more annoyingly, we had this investor that was gonna do one of these deals with us. That investor fell through. I had to go grab another one this morning. And, um, and investors falling through is not a big deal to me, but I really, really hate when you ghost somebody.

Robert Herjavec 10:10 Oh, my gosh.

Codie Sanchez 10:10 That's like a huge pet peeve.

Robert Herjavec 10:11 I hate that.

Codie Sanchez 10:11 Just tell me, "Fuck off, no."

Robert Herjavec 10:13 Yeah, me too.

Codie Sanchez 10:13 No problem.

Robert Herjavec 10:14 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 10:14 No problem. But don't ghost, 'cause then I don't know where you're at. And also don't waste my time.

Robert Herjavec 10:19 I hate that.

Codie Sanchez 10:19 If it is gonna be a no, get out.

Robert Herjavec 10:21 But, you know, I had a hard time with... That's, that's a great point. I had a really hard time with saying no to people.

Codie Sanchez 10:26 Oh, interesting. Were you a ghoster?

Robert Herjavec 10:28 I was never a ghoster-

Codie Sanchez 10:30 Okay

Robert Herjavec 10:30 ... but I was a maybe-er.

Codie Sanchez 10:33 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Robert Herjavec 10:33 I didn't... And I always thought of what in me-

Codie Sanchez 10:36 Yeah

Robert Herjavec 10:36 ... made me like that.

Codie Sanchez 10:38 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 10:38 And I realized I don't like to let people down.

Codie Sanchez 10:41 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 10:42 Now I'm okay with it. But back then, I wanted to please everybody.

Codie Sanchez 10:47 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 10:47 And so it's not that I was leading you on. I was... Like, I knew I wasn't doing a deal.

Codie Sanchez 10:53 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 10:53 Why didn't I just come out and say, "No"?

Codie Sanchez 10:56 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 10:56 Whereas now, I'm like, "Yeah, this isn't for me."

Codie Sanchez 10:59 Yes.

Robert Herjavec 10:59 But being on Shark Tank, I've, through 18 years and people pitching you, you have to learn that quality, 'cause people are pitching you all the time.

Codie Sanchez 11:07 Yeah. A fast no is such a gift, you know?

Robert Herjavec 11:10 A fast no, yes.

Codie Sanchez 11:12 As opposed to a slow maybe, or a fast no, and, you know, I was telling the investor, I'm like, "Hey, dude, all you gotta say is it doesn't meet X." And I go, "Okay, cool."

Robert Herjavec 11:19 Right.

Codie Sanchez 11:19 "If we meet X, I'll come talk to you. And until then, no, no stress."

Robert Herjavec 11:22 I saw a great quote, though, on the, uh, point about bad days. Just remember, your bad day today is somebody's dream.

Codie Sanchez 11:34 I know.

Robert Herjavec 11:34 And that really hit me as I'm sitting in my beautiful house, and my pool is leaking the other day, and I'm sitting there going, "Oh, my God, I gotta call the pool guy. This is such a nightmare." I was... And I'm like, hang on a second. [laughs] Like, in the scheme of things, this isn't bad. So I always try to... It's perspective.

Codie Sanchez 11:55 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 11:55 But I think kids also give you perspective. Like, the thing I've learned from my twins is the- ... absolute constant purity of joy.

Codie Sanchez 12:10 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 12:11 Like, when they're happy, they are absolutely happy. Like, and little things make them happy. Going swimming makes them happy.

Codie Sanchez 12:22 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 12:22 Hanging out makes them happy. And the things that are horrible, they get upset about, they forget about them in 10 minutes.

Codie Sanchez 12:30 So true.

Robert Herjavec 12:30 And so I try to do that.

Codie Sanchez 12:32 I really like that idea of like you're gonna be more successful the faster you move away from whatever's bothering you. Like-

Robert Herjavec 12:38 Yes

Codie Sanchez 12:39 ... you know, and I think Elon's talked about that, too. And maybe the flip side, because you talked about those 10 years you grinded to get the Ferrari or the 10 years that you grind to get the plane. Like, for the 25-year-old watching this who needs to start grinding for those 10 years, what is the one thing you'd tell them to grind on, or the one thing that you would tell them, "Do not waste your time doing this"?

Robert Herjavec 13:03 I think as it worked for me, expertise.

Codie Sanchez 13:06 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 13:07 I think people assume it's so easy to become great at something. I got into a field that was relatively young, cybersecurity, in my 20s, and within 10 years I became one of the top people in the world.

Codie Sanchez 13:20 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 13:20 But I was also in an industry that was 10, 20 years old. So today we have the same opportunity with AI. How many people my age understand AI? Very... How many businesses, how many service-based businesses could be made better with AI? Like, what a huge opportunity. If you're in your 20... Just the fact that you're in your 20s, you're a perceived expert on AI because you're young. So I, I think it's, it's a bigger opportunity today than when I started.

Codie Sanchez 13:54 Yeah. So it's basically like when you're young, just try to go become really skilled at something.

Robert Herjavec 13:59 Yes.

Codie Sanchez 13:59 Like, skill stack.

Robert Herjavec 14:01 Your 20s are the foundation of education-

Codie Sanchez 14:05 Mm

Robert Herjavec 14:05 ... in yourself.

Codie Sanchez 14:06 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 14:08 Don't take a job for money.

Codie Sanchez 14:10 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 14:10 Don't do anything because it pays a little more. Do everything to learn. Don't worry about the Mercedes or the Ferrari or the bigger house. Try not to have obligations that limit you from taking big risks. Take big risks, be bold, do great things, but be great at something.

Codie Sanchez 14:34 It's a very good point, because I think something that the younger generation has had to fight against, and it's not really even their fault, is that in their face every day are people that they would never really talk to in real life, but now they get to see their Ferraris, their Bentleys, their planes, their houses, their fancy lives. I mean, you saw, um, uh, Kylie Jenner's Meta glasses, you know-

Robert Herjavec 14:56 Right

Codie Sanchez 14:56 ... that just came out, and it's showing her incredible house and her... You know. And so it's really in their face, all this stuff that you get once you're wealthy. And I think it's made them think, "Wow, I should have all that right now, and that's what success is, and so I better YOLO into, you know, day trading stocks," or, "I better go and try to get into crypto. I need to do something to get fast money."

Robert Herjavec 15:18 Right.

Codie Sanchez 15:18 And so I guess I'd be curious from your take,

Codie Sanchez 15:22 what do you think is, like, the most overrated business or money advice that a lot of people are getting today?

Robert Herjavec 15:29 Gosh, I think there's, I think there's so many. I, I, I, I think it's the fast path. How many people online are selling you a two-year, six-month, you can do it? Um, yeah, the reality is anybody can do it, but it's, it's gonna take you longer than you think, and you have to be great at something.

Codie Sanchez 15:50 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 15:51 And the stuff is not what it's about.

Codie Sanchez 15:53 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 15:53 I mean, you have to make a certain amount of money to get above debt.

Codie Sanchez 15:59 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 15:59 But once you get above debt, you have to have a greater desire to build something of value. Kylie Jenner is incredible. I'm pretty sure Kylie Jenner didn't start out just to buy a bigger house or buy a nicer car. She had a vision of building a brand, and she has a roadmap for that brand, and everything she does fits into that brand. Look at the cosmetics, look at the Meta glasses. Like, like, I have so much respect for that family-

Codie Sanchez 16:33 Yeah

Robert Herjavec 16:33 ... because their business acumen is fantastic.

Codie Sanchez 16:37 Yeah. It's a good point. I always used to... I used to not like that, 'cause I thought it was so materialistic, and n- and then just a little tough for young women to see all the different ways bodies look, and is that, is that reasonable? Is that healthy? Should we feel that way? But after I've become less morally absolute-

Robert Herjavec 16:56 [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 16:57 [laughs] I think, I think that side is so hard to not see. I mean-

Robert Herjavec 17:01 I don't know. Like, I, I, I'm with you. Like, I... You know, my social media team is always like, "Let's do more videos with your plane and your car," and I'm like... To me, it feels shallow.

Codie Sanchez 17:12 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 17:13 To me, it feels like you're telling people the pursuit is only for the end goal.

Codie Sanchez 17:20 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 17:21 If you don't enjoy the journey, I, I don't think you're ever gonna get there, but, um, everybody's different.

Codie Sanchez 17:28 Yeah, and I think what I've realized is it's inspirational, and so I think for-

Robert Herjavec 17:31 It is, too

Codie Sanchez 17:31 ... a lot of people-

Robert Herjavec 17:31 Yeah

Codie Sanchez 17:32 ... it's like I have a, a good friend, Andy Frisella, who runs this company called 1st Phormz, and, and he's got all these crazy cars, and he's kind of a crazy dude, and he has a tank and all this stuff. And I was... remember I was kinda giving him some crap about it, and he looked at me-

Robert Herjavec 17:44 [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 17:44 ... and he's the scariest guy. Like, if you... Have you ever seen Andy Frisella?

Robert Herjavec 17:47 No.

Codie Sanchez 17:47 We'll put a little video of it. He, you know... When I first met him, he has this scar across his face and his back, and I'm like, "What happened?" And, uh, he's like, "Oh, yeah, I was walking through a park in St. Louis, and this man, you know, stabbed me in the face and then tried to stab me in the back, so I chased him and wrenched the kni-

Robert Herjavec 18:03 Wow.

Codie Sanchez 18:03 I was like, "Oh my God," you know? [laughs] "Remind me to never make fun of your cars again."

Robert Herjavec 18:06 Wow.

Codie Sanchez 18:07 And, um, and he's so intense, but he stopped me, and he was like, "Don't ever make fun of somebody else's inspiration." And I was like- That's a really good point. Like-

Robert Herjavec 18:16 It's a great point

Codie Sanchez 18:17 ... fair, fair point. He's like, "Why is it better that you get inspired by small business ownership and that somebody else gets inspired by a car if we both build and give back?" And I'm like, "You're absolutely right. It's not."

Robert Herjavec 18:28 It's a great point.

Codie Sanchez 18:29 Yeah, so I kinda had to get over myself, and so with the Kardashians, now I'm like, wow, you cannot build $1 billion business by accident, not to mention the six or seven or however many that family has. That's fucking hard. And to your point, you know what you should... Why don't you talk to us about, I didn't know that statistic you told me earlier. You told me a statistic about how rare it is to be a billionaire, and I don't think most people realize it. Like, how rare is it to be a billionaire, and how hard is it?

Robert Herjavec 18:55 I think, what is it? There's thir- 3,600 or 4,100 billionaires in the world, and a billion dollars is 10,000... You could've spent $10,000 a day since the day Christ was born.

Codie Sanchez 19:06 [exhales]

Robert Herjavec 19:07 It's really hard, but certain things today with social media make it seem easy.

Codie Sanchez 19:14 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 19:14 Like, SpaceX, when public, 4,400 people became millionaires on that day. 400 people became deca-millionaires. Like, like, how hard is it to make 100 million, 500 million-

Codie Sanchez 19:31 Oh, yeah

Robert Herjavec 19:31 ... a billion? It's hard, but just because somebody did it, what you perceive on as being overnight doesn't mean it was overnight and doesn't mean that most people are gonna get there. It's still hard. It's still really hard.

Codie Sanchez 19:48 Yeah. It's a good perspective to have, not to mention you have a lot more, you know, a lot more issues at, at that level of wealth. I mean, one of my friends runs a family office for actually some people in that ecosystem in Austin, and he said, "I wish you not one more penny than $299 million." This was back, was back in the day. And I remember saying to him, "Why?" 'Cause he managed a multifamily for a couple of these guys, and he's like, "At some point, you can lose all sense of reality." And then he said, jokingly kind of, he's like, "And then you're always just, like, one yes away from, uh, an approved genocide."

Robert Herjavec 20:20 [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 20:20 [laughs] I just thought, dear God.

Robert Herjavec 20:22 I don't know if I buy that. I think you are what you are. I think if you're flippant and don't appreciate the things that you have, you're gonna blow 50 million and act like an asshole.

Codie Sanchez 20:35 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 20:36 I think if you're grounded, love your family, wanna give back, wanna do great things, you're gonna be the same person with two billion, three billion, a billion, 800 million. It, it doesn't matter. Like, I wish I... Well, I don't wish. I, I would definitely love to have more money. I'd definitely love to build another business and create even more wealth, but it doesn't define... It's not gonna change my life. It's not gonna change my kids' lives. It's not what I wake up to do, but would I wanna do it? Yeah, absolutely, because I can. I mean, it's what... It's the game that I'm good at, and I think at a certain point in life, you wanna play at the things that you're good at. Like, I don't wanna start from zero again. I wanna start at five and go to 10.

Codie Sanchez 21:25 Can you get really rich even if you don't like rich people?

Robert Herjavec 21:27 Yes.

Codie Sanchez 21:28 Hmm.

Robert Herjavec 21:28 Because I've met incredibly wealthy people-

Codie Sanchez 21:32 Yeah

Robert Herjavec 21:33 ... who could care less about the money.

Codie Sanchez 21:36 Hmm.

Robert Herjavec 21:36 Like, could care less. I've met incredibly wealthy people that, um, Charl- Charlie Munger.

Codie Sanchez 21:43 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 21:44 Used to go to his house once a month for lunch.

Codie Sanchez 21:47 I didn't know that.

Robert Herjavec 21:48 When he first invited me to the hou- well, his team invited me to the house, it's in LA, in an area of LA. I drove around for 15 minutes because I couldn't believe it was his house. Like, it, I'm like, "He can't possibly live there. It's such a crappy house." Sorry, Charlie. And it is. It was just, like, this crappy little house, and then, like, I walk up to the door and I'm like, I open the little screen door, and there was no buzzer even. I, I knock. There's no security, nothing. And I asked him about it one time, and he's like, "Just don't care. It's where I live." I'm like, "Did you ever buy a fancy car?" He's like, "It's just transportation to me." Cuban gives me a hard time about my cars. He always calls me s- um, [laughs] shallow and arrogant because I love cars, and I always say to him, "Really? That's really interesting from the man with four jets."

Codie Sanchez 22:46 [laughs] Exactly.

Robert Herjavec 22:48 Like, I'm shallow because I buy a 500,000 or a million dollar car, and you're not because you have four jet... We all love something.

Codie Sanchez 22:57 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 22:57 And so, yeah, I've met rich people who just don't care.

Codie Sanchez 23:00 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 23:00 Like, just don't care. I don't think you can become successful if you hate other people's success.

Codie Sanchez 23:08 Oof.

Robert Herjavec 23:09 So there's a difference between hating or not liking rich people or not liking money or it not being important to you, but there's a difference between hating how people got there.

Codie Sanchez 23:20 Hmm.

Robert Herjavec 23:21 If you're rich and you did it in a business that you loved, I'm okay with that, right? If you got a billion or 100 million, I... It doesn't matter to me. But if I despise your success and your journey, it's hard for me to have that same ambition to create something.

Codie Sanchez 23:38 Couldn't agree more. I think it's kinda the same, like, sometimes you'll hear women say, "I hate men. Men are awful. I don't want, you know, I can't date anybody. Everybody's terrible." I'm like, "You're gonna have a damn hard time finding one-

Robert Herjavec 23:49 [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 23:49 ... if you put that out there."

Robert Herjavec 23:50 Right, right.

Codie Sanchez 23:51 You know? And, and maybe you have had terrible experiences in a lot of dating stuff, but man, you're not gonna be able to attract that if every time you talk to a man you're telling him how terrible they are. It's probably not gonna go well.

Robert Herjavec 24:01 But I also think, don't you think that's part of the problem today it is we are, we have somehow or are becoming a society that despises people's success and tie it to their wealth?

Codie Sanchez 24:16 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 24:16 Like, the, I have a house in New York. I love New York. I hated, and I've met the mayor. He... I, I'm not, I don't agree with his politics, but he seemed like a good guy.

Codie Sanchez 24:29 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 24:29 We had a meeting. I hated when he stood in front of Ken Griffin's apartment and said basically that that was bad.

Codie Sanchez 24:39 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 24:40 You don't have to love Ken Griffin. You don't have to love the fact that he's worth billions. But I think you have to respect the hustle and the grind and what that man did to create that wealth. So I, I think, I worry that we've become somehow, we look down on that.

Codie Sanchez 25:01 Yeah. Yeah, it's one thing to look down on the wealthy when you're in Russia and you get, you know, oligopolies where they're gifted things from the government or things are nationalized. That's totally reasonable. You know? We don't like thieves.

Robert Herjavec 25:13 Right.

Codie Sanchez 25:14 But when you actually in this country cre- have to create, I mean, how many trillions of dollars in value does Elon have to create to become a trillionaire?

Robert Herjavec 25:22 Unbelievable.

Codie Sanchez 25:22 An, an incredible amount.

Robert Herjavec 25:24 Unbelievable. Well, forget that side of it, the trillionaires, billionaires.

Robert Herjavec 25:29 What I've always admired about you-

Codie Sanchez 25:31 Mm

Robert Herjavec 25:31 ... even when you were first starting out when I reached out to you, is your message is the right message in America at this time.

Codie Sanchez 25:40 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 25:40 Which is anybody has access to small business. Anybody. There is no magic. There's no God-given talent you need. You just need a little help, and I think that's what you're doing for people. You're showing them how to get there. So you don't have to love Elon Musk or hate Elon Musk, but you can buy a car wash.

Codie Sanchez 26:00 Yeah, [laughs] exactly.

Robert Herjavec 26:01 And that car wash can provide a living for you and your family, and I love that. I love that message, 'cause that's what democracy is, and that's what capitalism is. You know, we came from a communist country. My dad hated communism. He got up, he was 22 when he got thrown in jail the first time, and he was in jail, like, 25 times or something. 'Cause if you go to a bar and you say bad things about communism, you get thrown in jail. [laughs] So one time I asked my dad, "What's the difference between communism and capitalism?" And my dad thought about it and he said, "A capitalist is somebody who owns more than one Cadillac."

Codie Sanchez 26:44 [laughs]

Robert Herjavec 26:47 I don't know why he thought of that, but that just remi- Like, in his world, two Cadillacs or two cars, you're a capitalist.

Robert Herjavec 26:58 You're showing people how to build a single business. Too many people have lost sight of the fact that, oh, I can't become a trillionaire, so I should just give up.

Codie Sanchez 27:08 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 27:08 You know? Like, what's wrong? A donut shop, a bakery, a dry cleaning business. Like, the business of America is consumerism.

Codie Sanchez 27:17 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 27:18 So many great businesses people can start.

Codie Sanchez 27:20 Oh my, everywhere. You know, what do you think was the most valuable lesson you took away from the years that you didn't have any money at all?

Robert Herjavec 27:27 Urgency.

Codie Sanchez 27:28 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 27:29 Urgency, tempered later on. Urgency gets you out of poverty. Patience gets you to wealth-

Codie Sanchez 27:42 Mm, that's a good point

Robert Herjavec 27:43 ... is what I had to learn. Without urgency, I would still be broke.

Codie Sanchez 27:49 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 27:49 I didn't wait for tomorrow. When a customer wanted a quote, I would say end of the day.

Codie Sanchez 27:56 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 27:56 My competitors used to deliver the quotes or send them by mail or email. I would hand-deliver them.

Codie Sanchez 28:03 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 28:05 I'd be like, "Where's your address?" And I said, "I'll drop it off this afternoon." And people would say, "Oh, no, you don't have to drop it off." I'm like, "No, I'll drop it off." They're like, "Well, I, I don't have time to see you." I said, "It's okay. I'll just drop it off, and if you have a few minutes for me, that'd be great. And if you don't, I'm okay with that."

Codie Sanchez 28:22 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 28:22 And I'd drop it off. And you know the funny thing is 80% of the time people would come out and say hi. Go to their office, I drop it off, and they're like, "Oh my gosh." 'Cause how many people go the extra mile? How many people are willing to wait until tomorrow? So that urgency, like, we gotta go. We gotta go now. Now. Constant, forward, momentum. Like, go. The downside of that is when your company gets to a certain size, you c- [laughs] you can't move 100 people or 1,000 people at that same pace. You have to plan, just scale.

Codie Sanchez 29:00 God, so good. Yeah. Uh, one of my other people that I adore immensely, his name's Bill Perkins, and, um, he always tells me that, you know, he doesn't win because he's smarter than anybody else. He just moves faster than everybody else. He goes, "So by the time they've thought about it, I've already made three mistakes and found a better way."

Robert Herjavec 29:17 Right.

Codie Sanchez 29:17 And-

Robert Herjavec 29:17 So true.

Codie Sanchez 29:18 Yeah, and I, it, but it's really interesting 'cause it's hard to get people to think that way. You know, we've been programmed, like, if I say, "Hey, let's circle around next," everybody goes, "Week." Why? Why is it a week?

Robert Herjavec 29:28 Right.

Codie Sanchez 29:28 That's such a weird thing.

Robert Herjavec 29:29 I-

Codie Sanchez 29:29 Why couldn't it just be later today?

Robert Herjavec 29:31 I think a, an action today is better than the perfect plan tomorrow.

Codie Sanchez 29:38 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 29:38 When, when I sold my business to an equity firm and I got into the equity world and I saw how much planning equity firms do, it drove me nuts, 'cause how many businesses are built on your gut feel? And to, to Bill's point, I'll make a decision today, and if I'm wrong, I'll know pretty quickly, and I'll make another [laughs] decision tomorrow, and I'm okay with that.

Codie Sanchez 30:00 Yeah. What can you do if you know you need to get faster? Like, what would be a lesson somebody l- that's listening right now, and they're like, "God, I know I need to get faster." If you're like, "Just do this one thing every day to get faster," what would it be?

Robert Herjavec 30:12 Find a way to fail quickly. So if you're creating a product, instead of waiting till the product is done 100%, wait until it's done 20% and call a paying customer. How many people wait till the product is 100%, and then they beta test it with non-paying customers?

Codie Sanchez 30:32 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 30:32 Finish 20% of it, test it with the real customers. 'Cause the beauty of commerce is when people exchange money-

Codie Sanchez 30:40 Yep

Robert Herjavec 30:40 ... what did Robin Williams say in the movie Cadillac Man? "Selling something to somebody is as close as you can get to another human being without sleeping with them."

Codie Sanchez 30:49 [laughs]

Robert Herjavec 30:51 And it's true. When I sell you something and you give me money for a product or service, it's magical. There's so many things that happen at a subconscious level. I'm telling you I accept you.

Codie Sanchez 31:06 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 31:06 I, I agree with you. Like, all those positive things happen. Get as fast as you can to acceptance or failure as quickly as you can.

Codie Sanchez 31:19 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 31:19 Too many businesses fail for constant evolution.

Codie Sanchez 31:23 How many billions of dollars in sales do you think you've done over your career?

Robert Herjavec 31:31 10, 15-plus billion.

Codie Sanchez 31:34 Wow. And what are the biggest lessons you've learned about sales doing $10 billion in sales over your career?

Robert Herjavec 31:43 The biggest lesson I've learned is great salespeople solve problems and sell value.

Codie Sanchez 31:56 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 31:57 Bad salespeople sell product or something tangible. So I've also learned great salespeople never ask for an order. They make the client believe it is the right solution for them. I will bring you to my solution, as opposed to forcing it on you. It's the complete opposite of what we're taught, right?

Codie Sanchez 32:26 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 32:26 Like, going for the close, always be closing, and there's a magic to it. Sales is on a subconscious-

Codie Sanchez 32:33 Yeah

Robert Herjavec 32:33 ... level. Those are things I've learned.

Codie Sanchez 32:35 Yeah. It's so fascinating because, you know, on Shark Tank, you guys are having people sell you basically nonstop every day.

Robert Herjavec 32:42 Every day, yeah.

Codie Sanchez 32:43 And, you know, you're either deciding who's gonna hold the frame, the stronger frame is the shark that's like, "Nope, I'm out," or the person who's pitching that's like, "No, you should be in, and here's why." And so sales, I mean, we call it, you guys call it or many people call it pitching on Shark Tank, but I really think it's just sales. And so-

Robert Herjavec 33:01 It's just sales

Codie Sanchez 33:02 ... even if nobody ever pitches an investor or nobody comes on Shark Tank,

Codie Sanchez 33:06 I guess, what do you think the best sales pitches have in it? Or if you wanna get somebody to do just about anything in sales, are there lines you go to? Are there... Is there priming that you do?

Robert Herjavec 33:20 Interesting about Shark Tank, the power or the leverage is with the sharks to start-

Codie Sanchez 33:26 Yep

Robert Herjavec 33:27 ... when you come out. If all the sharks go out and there's one shark left, that shark has all the leverage.

Codie Sanchez 33:36 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 33:36 And, you know, we pitch, they pitch for about an hour, it gets edited into seven minutes, but we often say when there's only one shark left and we make an offer and people don't like the offer, we're like, "What are you gonna do? I'm the only one left." But if it's a great pitch-

Codie Sanchez 33:50 Mm

Robert Herjavec 33:50 ... sometimes we all want the deal. Then the leverage switches.

Codie Sanchez 33:56 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 33:58 And now the sharks are selling the pitcher. Here's why you should go with me. And it's very real. Like, when we see a great product, we really, really want it. And so I think that there's a, there's a switch there. Great pitchers start with the subconscious. So we talk about this all the time. I think we always know what makes a bad pitch.

Codie Sanchez 34:27 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 34:28 We don't always agree what makes a good pitch.

Codie Sanchez 34:30 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 34:30 So what makes a bad pitch? Somebody that comes out and is, is not in line with what they're pitching.

Codie Sanchez 34:41 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 34:41 So you're selling me an enterprise software product, but you're wearing shorts and a T-shirt.

Codie Sanchez 34:48 Interesting.

Robert Herjavec 34:49 On a subconscious level, it's... I'm, I'm not connecting. Like, like I don't like what you're selling me, but I don't know why. It's subconscious. Or you're selling a surf product, and you come out with a jacket. Like, like, if you're selling fun, be fun.

Codie Sanchez 35:05 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 35:05 Humility. Like, if I don't like you, it's gonna be hard for me to listen to you. The first thing you have to do is get people to listen before you-

Codie Sanchez 35:15 Mm

Robert Herjavec 35:15 ... get them to hear.

Codie Sanchez 35:17 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 35:18 We had somebody in season two come out, and they were saying something, and I think Barbara said something, and they were rude to Barbara, which bothers me.

Codie Sanchez 35:25 [laughs]

Robert Herjavec 35:26 And they said, um-

Codie Sanchez 35:27 "You're not listening to me."

Robert Herjavec 35:29 ... "You're not listening to me." And I said, "Hang on a sec. It's not my job to listen to you. It's your job to be heard."

Codie Sanchez 35:37 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 35:38 And so you can't have a great pitch unless people are listening to you. So I think that's the first thing, is you gotta find a way for me to listen to you, and then you have to find what my need is.

Codie Sanchez 35:50 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 35:51 You know the old, uh, sell me this pencil or pen-

Codie Sanchez 35:54 Mm-hmm

Robert Herjavec 35:54 ... trick? The perfect answer to that is, "Before I sell you the pen, can you tell me why you need a pen?"

Codie Sanchez 36:01 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 36:02 And sometimes the answer is you just don't need one.

Codie Sanchez 36:04 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 36:05 You know, it's interesting. When I was on the set with you guys the other week, um, they were talking about how to value a company, right?

Robert Herjavec 36:14 [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 36:14 And so-

Robert Herjavec 36:14 Right

Codie Sanchez 36:15 ... and I realized how few people know what numbers really matter if you wanna get somebody's money.

Robert Herjavec 36:21 Oh my gosh.

Codie Sanchez 36:22 And so, like, what would the answer be? Or what are, like, the three to five numbers you better know if you ever want somebody rich to give you money?

Robert Herjavec 36:29 Well, the number one thing we see, the number one mistake people make when they value their company is they value it based on what they would like, not what the business is worth.

Codie Sanchez 36:42 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 36:43 So like, why is your company worth $10 million? Because we need $10 million. Like, okay, but why is it worth that?

Codie Sanchez 36:51 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 36:52 People don't understand the metrics in an industry.

Codie Sanchez 36:55 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 36:55 Every industry has a value. A car wash, a tech business. Is it a multiple of EBITDA? Is it a multiple of ARR? If you're gonna ask somebody for money, you have to understand the range of values for that industry. And it's a guideline. You know that. You're teaching people this all the time. What is a donut shop worth? Well, here's what donut shops trade for in this range. So once you know the range, you have to tell me why yours is at the top of that range, and people just don't understand that. And it's easy to find. I mean, people can go to you. You can look it up online. Everything has a real value.

Codie Sanchez 37:37 Yeah, and you can look so smart by just knowing a few numbers. If you're like, "Here's my profit and loss, here's my margin, here's my EBITDA, here's, you know, what I think our enterprise value will be, here's our multiple based on industry standards," you could literally Google-

Robert Herjavec 37:50 The-

Codie Sanchez 37:50 Or I guess you could AI all of these things

Robert Herjavec 37:52 ... the best example I give people is if you're gonna sell your house, would you sell your house based on what it's emotionally worth to you? "I love my house. I'm gonna try to sell it for a million dollars." Or would you bring somebody in, give you the value of every home that's sold around you in the last six months, and then try to understand what makes yours different? No different than in businesses. Everything has a value. You have to understand what it is for your industry.

Codie Sanchez 38:20 That's so true.

Robert Herjavec 38:21 You know-

Codie Sanchez 38:21 What do you think most people don't understand about business, even if they run one, but if they did, they'd make more money in business?

Robert Herjavec 38:30 Scale.

Codie Sanchez 38:31 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 38:31 Uh, it's a two-edged sword-

Codie Sanchez 38:33 Mm

Robert Herjavec 38:33 ... because

Robert Herjavec 38:36 the theory of scale you can hire people to do.

Codie Sanchez 38:39 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 38:40 You know, when you get, your company gets to a certain size, you can hire professional managers, you can hire people to come in. They understand scale, they understand systems, they understand all that, but they can't go from zero to something. When I worked for Warren Avis, he said to me, "You can hire great managers. Very hard to find great entrepreneurs." And so again, it's a two-edged sword, 'cause for me, I was very, very good at go and urgency, but it took me a few years to learn how to scale my business. If I would've learned how to scale my business better, I would be wealthier today, and I think most people running a $5 million business or a $10 million business, every $5 million business that you're integral to is a point of weakness. I didn't understand that. I saw it as a point of strength. So when we were five million, I was like, "Oh, everything I'm doing is, yeah." Later on I learned I gotta replace all those things and be kinda like the glue that holds things together. So if you're watching and you're running a $5 million business, sit down and look at... When you go on vacation for a week and don't call in, write down all the things that broke.

Codie Sanchez 40:06 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 40:06 And every one of the things that broke is holding you back.

Codie Sanchez 40:10 It's so, it's so true. It's... Isn't it so hard? I mean, you start out in business and you think that your skill is correlated to how much money you make, right?

Robert Herjavec 40:18 Yes.

Codie Sanchez 40:19 'Cause that's true.

Robert Herjavec 40:19 Yes.

Codie Sanchez 40:19 It's in the beginning. You're, you get more skill-

Robert Herjavec 40:21 Yes

Codie Sanchez 40:21 ... you get more money. And then when you go to run a business, you go, "No, the more skill I have, the more revenue m- we make," and that's true at a certain point. And then you realize, "Oh my God, my skill should have nothing to do really with the revenue that I make." It shouldn't be how much I work equals revenue. It should actually be how good is the business model, how good is the team-

Robert Herjavec 40:39 Yes

Codie Sanchez 40:39 ... how good is the market, and so that's a really hard lesson to learn.

Robert Herjavec 40:43 But I think we, we all take a certain amount of pride in working hard when we start, but if you don't take pride in that, you'll never get... I mean, these are all first world problems.

Codie Sanchez 40:51 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 40:52 Scale.

Codie Sanchez 40:52 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 40:53 Getting bigger. These are all first world problems.

Codie Sanchez 40:55 What... So for somebody that's listening, I mean, you've sold... I know you've sold companies for $30 million. You've bought companies for $75 million I could find. You've done really big transactions multiple times, both building, buying, and selling as far as I can tell.

Codie Sanchez 41:11 I'd be curious your take, what do you think most people don't know about businesses when a business, like the difference between a million dollar business, a $10 million business, $100 million business, you know, a couple hundred million dollar business? Like, what does it take to be an entrepreneur at each level of that game?

Robert Herjavec 41:29 What people don't understand is when you're selling a one million or a $10 million business-

Codie Sanchez 41:34 Yeah

Robert Herjavec 41:34 ... you're typically selling some element of you.

Codie Sanchez 41:37 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 41:38 So if someone's buying that, they're gonna lock you in. There's gonna be a non-compete. You're coming with the business.

Codie Sanchez 41:45 So that's one to 10 million, you're the integral part.

Robert Herjavec 41:48 You're the integral part.

Codie Sanchez 41:49 Then what happens past 10?

Robert Herjavec 41:50 Or one or two staff is. Once you get past 10, you have to build a business that will stand on its own two feet.

Codie Sanchez 41:56 That's like 10 to 25 or 10 to 50?

Robert Herjavec 41:59 Yeah. Every time I bought a business above $10 million, I hoped that the founders would stay.

Codie Sanchez 42:06 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 42:07 But hope is not a great strategy. I also built the system to know that if they left tomorrow... When I bought a one to $10 million business, I had to have the founder stay.

Codie Sanchez 42:19 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 42:19 So I would lock him in with a big earn-out. I would pay very little upfront, give him big options, all that kinda stuff.

Codie Sanchez 42:26 Yep.

Robert Herjavec 42:27 Above 10 million, I was okay if they left the next day

Codie Sanchez 42:32 And then what about $100 million plus? Like, what are those entrepreneurs like that's different from somebody who can get to 20 million or a million?

Robert Herjavec 42:40 At 100 million, you're providing something that is fundamentally disruptive-

Codie Sanchez 42:46 Mm

Robert Herjavec 42:46 ... to an industry, or you have some element of scale. Interestingly, I actually worked less hours when we got bigger than I did when we were smaller, and that was, that was a real key to me. Like when, when I sold my business at the end, the last one, we were just about 400 million in revenue. I used to go on vacation all the time. Like, I used to go away all the time, and we were fine. You know, the world didn't end when I wasn't there. When we were a million dollars, if I didn't call the office two, three times a day if I was on vacation, oh my gosh, it would, it would be disaster.

Codie Sanchez 43:31 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 43:32 What system did you put in place that freed you up the most in your business? If you could go back and look at, like, "Gosh, when I started doing this, my business stopped owning me and I actually started owning the business."

Robert Herjavec 43:44 That's a great question, uh, 'cause I wasn't getting there. Uh, you know, every business... People that don't run businesses think growth is linear. Growth is linear, plateau down, plateau up, a- and over time it's linear, but in the process it's not. So I hit a plateau, and we weren't growing, we were just kinda stuck, and I didn't know why we were stuck. And what I began to understand is I didn't understand cashflow and finance.

Codie Sanchez 44:16 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 44:16 Like, I wasn't doing a good job of managing money, and money is an asset, just like a machine is an asset. We weren't using our receivables, payable. Like, I, I didn't understand what was going on.

Codie Sanchez 44:29 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 44:29 And so I said, "Do I have time to learn this and become world-class at finance?"

Codie Sanchez 44:38 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 44:38 "Or can I afford a world-class CFO?"

Codie Sanchez 44:44 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 44:44 I hired a world-class CFO.

Codie Sanchez 44:45 [laughs]

Robert Herjavec 44:47 And then as we got bigger again, I didn't understand logistics. I didn't understand that I was good at it, but was I the best in the world at it? No. And then I hired those things and let those people run.

Codie Sanchez 45:01 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 45:02 And I found a way for those people to do their job, but keep me informed. So I think every part of your business has a heartbeat.

Codie Sanchez 45:11 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 45:12 Finance has a heartbeat. In my business, it was cashflow. I needed to know what our cash position was every day. I need to know what our receivables were in aging every Friday.

Codie Sanchez 45:24 Explain what receivables and aging are really quickly in case somebody doesn't know.

Robert Herjavec 45:27 So whenever you sell something to somebody at a large company, very rarely do people pay you upfront or in cash.

Codie Sanchez 45:34 It's very sad, unfortunately.

Robert Herjavec 45:35 Yeah. They usually pay a net 30.

Codie Sanchez 45:38 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 45:38 Which means they'll probably pay you in 60 days.

Codie Sanchez 45:40 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 45:40 And today it's 90. But you have to pay for those goods in 30 to 60 days. So there's a balance between those two, and we had to balance those things. 'Cause I built my company to almost 400 million with my own money. We didn't have any outside capital. So that was really, really critical. And so we had to al- always constantly balance that for us.

Codie Sanchez 46:04 Yeah. Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 46:05 Every person I meet who has never started a business, has never run a business-

Codie Sanchez 46:11 Yeah

Robert Herjavec 46:11 ... and I ask them, "Why don't... Why, why have you never done it?" Number one reason typically is, "I don't have the money."

Codie Sanchez 46:18 Oh, I hate that answer.

Robert Herjavec 46:19 "If I had the money, I would've started a business." I'm like, "You know what? I had no money." Like, people don't understand, and you and I were talking about this on set, I bought f- 13 or 14 businesses in my tech business with no outside funding.

Codie Sanchez 46:34 Oh, yeah. You gotta explain that.

Robert Herjavec 46:36 So I went to buy a business the first time-

Codie Sanchez 46:39 Mm

Robert Herjavec 46:39 ... when we were smaller, and I said... And I think it was a $3 million business, and it was probably valued at, uh, two times EBITDA, so it was about $700,000. And EBITDA is simply how much a business earns, and there's a multiple of that, which basically means if a business earns 300,000, you pay it 600,000, it's gonna take you two years for you to make the money that you paid them, but then after two years it's all your money. A simplistic explanation. So I sit down with this business, it's really key for us, we're gonna... It's gonna change our profile, and we were only doing about six million a year at the time and buying a $3 million business.

Codie Sanchez 47:19 Oh. [laughs]

Robert Herjavec 47:21 And I sit down with the guy, and it's like, "Great." You know, I'm gonna retire, older per- How many businesses today are owned by people my age or a little younger, but they have no exit?

Codie Sanchez 47:32 Yep.

Robert Herjavec 47:32 Anyway, so I sit down with this guy and I convince him. I said, "Look, no one's gonna buy your business. It's small, it's tiny." And he's like, "Great, I'll sell it to you. 600,000, great deal." He's like, "Great, cut me a check." And I'm like, "Oh, I don't have [laughs] 600,000." I go to the bank, the bank won't lend me the money.

Codie Sanchez 47:51 Yep.

Robert Herjavec 47:51 I go back to him and I say, "I don't have the cash." "So give me another option. How much do you have?" And it gave me the first idea of an earnout. So I said, "Hang on a sec. I can pay you 100,000 on closing. I can pay you another 100,000 in 60 days, and I can pay you the third 100,000 by the end of the year."

Codie Sanchez 48:13 Yep.

Robert Herjavec 48:13 "So in 12 months you will have 300,000, and the other 300,000 I'll pay you over two years."

Codie Sanchez 48:20 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 48:22 He's like, "Well, how do I know you're gonna pay me?" I said, "Well, of course I'm gonna pay you. It's in my best interest to continue to pay you." And that's how I bought the first business, on earnout. So basically, I used half my money and half the business's money- In order to buy that actual business. It's great

Codie Sanchez 48:42 So good. And you even did that with a $75 million business at the time.

Robert Herjavec 48:45 I did it with a $75 million business, I did it with a $30 million business, and people do it all the time. You hear M&A activity? That's what it is. Leveraged buyouts-

Codie Sanchez 48:54 Yep

Robert Herjavec 48:54 ... that's what a leveraged buyout is.

Codie Sanchez 48:55 I know, isn't it so funny? So we talk about it like seller financing, 'cause that's what they call it-

Robert Herjavec 48:59 Yes

Codie Sanchez 48:59 ... obviously, in lower middle market, or even, you know, mom-and-pop acquisitions, which really doesn't even touch Wall Street. And what kills me is half the time why people will not buy a business is exactly what you just said, "I don't have the money." And I'm like, "No, no, no."

Robert Herjavec 49:14 Right.

Codie Sanchez 49:14 And, and this is so hard for people to internalize. I have to come up with a better way to say it, so maybe you have it. And I, I always say there, it is never a lack of money. You never suffer from a lack of money. You suffer from a lack of knowledge on how to get money.

Robert Herjavec 49:28 Oh, so true.

Codie Sanchez 49:28 But if you could fill the knowledge gap, you will find the money. And, you know, could you imagine if the richest people in the world were constrained by their bank accounts? They would never be doing deals. Like, KKR's not doing deals because they have the cash sitting in the bank. But it, it's, it's our programming somehow has told us that if it's not in our bank account or in our 401 [k] , we can't afford to do deals.

Robert Herjavec 49:53 If money and a formal education were the keys to success,

Robert Herjavec 49:59 every trust fund kid, everybody with an MBA would be wealthy.

Codie Sanchez 50:04 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 50:04 There's a reason why most people never achieve wealth is because they look at the constraints. Money is not holding you back.

Codie Sanchez 50:14 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 50:14 Your lack of education is not holding you back. Your lack of knowledge is holding you back. For sure, you can find the money. How many businesses in America today are run by people in their 50s or 60s that they have no exit plan?

Codie Sanchez 50:31 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 50:31 They're never gonna get out. Their kids are not gonna take over their business. Their spouse is not. So in your town right now is somebody running a million, $2 million business, making a few hundred thousand a year-

Codie Sanchez 50:45 Mm-hmm

Robert Herjavec 50:45 ... been in business for 20 years, loyal customer base. That person's kids is not gonna take it over. Their spouse has no interest in running it once they pass away.

Codie Sanchez 50:55 Yep.

Robert Herjavec 50:55 What's that person gonna do with it?

Codie Sanchez 50:57 Close it down.

Robert Herjavec 50:58 Close it down. All that value, all that inherent customer is gone. Is that person not better off to sell it to you and help you fund it for a couple of years, and then continue to get money for their family, for their kids, and so on?

Codie Sanchez 51:17 That's the sales pitch right there.

Robert Herjavec 51:19 That's right.

Codie Sanchez 51:19 You're not even selling them.

Robert Herjavec 51:20 Yeah. [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 51:20 You're just telling them why it's better for them. So in Wall Street, obviously, you call it earn-outs. Um, sometimes people call it also, you know, hey, we'll do milestone-based investing, like if you, you buy the company for 75 million, but you know, the company ends up doing double what you thought it was, you could pay them more.

Robert Herjavec 51:38 Yes.

Codie Sanchez 51:38 So you could even negotiate sort of these seller financing earn-outs.

Robert Herjavec 51:42 Well, that was, that was what I learned. I mean, I, I'm, I oversimplified it, but as you can imagine, that conversation with the first business, I agreed to buy the guy's company for 600,000. Then I show up the next day and say, "Guess what? I don't have the money." Not a comfortable conversation. But to his credit, he was a great guy, and what I learned was, I said, "Well," exactly your point, "if me running the business does better, I will pay you more."

Codie Sanchez 52:13 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 52:13 "So instead of paying you 600,000, maybe I'll pay you 800,000." He's like, "Well, h- how do I know you're gonna run the business better?" And I said, "Well, you don't, but look at my track record."

Codie Sanchez 52:24 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 52:25 So in a way, he had to buy into me.

Codie Sanchez 52:30 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 52:31 And once I bought the first one and paid him, and I actually paid him, I think it was 760,000 or something, the next one became so much easier.

Codie Sanchez 52:41 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 52:41 'Cause people are like, "Well, why, why would I believe that?" I said, "Well, talk to this guy." And again, it goes to your word and your credibility in business.

Codie Sanchez 52:49 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 52:49 Especially for small business, it's so critical. People need to believe in you.

Codie Sanchez 52:54 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 52:55 Yeah, you know, it's interesting. It's like show, don't tell, you know? They need to have you show them that you're gonna do what you said you're gonna, you're gonna do, not tell them how great you are or what you're doing. And this feels like today more than ever, there's a lower trust society, right? Everybody says a lot of things and then doesn't follow through. So that's a great way to do it. That's selling by testimonial or selling by social proof or selling by reference. You know, those are things that what you're doing is complex, but it's really not that different-

Robert Herjavec 53:22 Right

Codie Sanchez 53:22 ... from saying, "If you buy this coffee, a bunch of other people like it. You know, if you sell your business to me, a bunch of other people liked me, and they're glad that they sold their business to me."

Robert Herjavec 53:31 Yeah, in our business, we call that third-party verification.

Codie Sanchez 53:34 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 53:35 People will always believe more what others say about you than what you say about yourself.

Codie Sanchez 53:41 Let's get a little bit more detailed on some of the deals. Like, you have... I mean, gosh, how many deals do you think you've done in your career, including, like, Shark Tank and then buying in your business and maybe even some of your, like, complicated JV or partnership structures?

Robert Herjavec 53:54 Probably a lot with Shark Tank, uh, 50-plus over time. Uh, in my business, probably

Robert Herjavec 54:03 30 over time.

Codie Sanchez 54:05 Yeah. So you just have a lot of reps.

Robert Herjavec 54:07 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 54:07 So for somebody who's like, "I can't even imagine structuring some of these deals," like, what are some... Is there a deal where you're like, "This was really smart we did it this way," or, "I'm really proud we kind of finagled it like this"?

Robert Herjavec 54:20 I'm really proud of my earn-out deals.

Codie Sanchez 54:22 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 54:23 I'm really proud of... I'm, looking back, I'm really proud of building a $400 million business with my own money. I'm really proud of that because I got to keep 100% of the profit. I got to keep-

Codie Sanchez 54:37 The whole time, you never e- ever raised any capital?

Robert Herjavec 54:39 Never.

Codie Sanchez 54:40 Good for you.

Robert Herjavec 54:40 Until I sold it.

Codie Sanchez 54:41 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 54:42 I'm really proud of that, because I have so many friends that built $400 million businesses or billion-dollar businesses and end up owning 8% of it or 10% of it. That's why we say to people, "Keep as much equity as you can for as long as you can."

Codie Sanchez 55:01 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 55:02 People sell too early-

Codie Sanchez 55:04 Mm-hmm

Robert Herjavec 55:04 ... and end up with too little at the end. And, you know, I'm really proud of that, and a big part of that was my ability to structure earnouts and to leverage cash flow within the business.

Codie Sanchez 55:18 Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. We've, we have one business that we raise for now, uh, BizScout, which is our business buying and selling marketplace. We didn't raise that much, five million bucks. It's quite a large business now. But, um, raising is also really not fun. You know?

Robert Herjavec 55:35 It's not fun.

Codie Sanchez 55:35 It's, it's not a fun... We got lucky, 'cause we had a lot of, you know, s- social proof, and so that, that fund raise was easy. But I remember there's just such a difference. You sit down with somebody who's actually operated companies while investing and buying in them, it's always so valuable. And then, you know, the other day, god, I was, I was so frustrated, Robert, you'll get a chuckle out of this, but one of the investors was like, "Well, we like to invest

Codie Sanchez 55:59 in companies in the second round." Um, these are startups, so going from, you know, zero idea, little seed check, to Series A or the next one.

Robert Herjavec 56:09 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 56:10 Based on how closely they perform according to their projections-

Robert Herjavec 56:14 [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 56:14 [laughs] I know. And I thought, so I just had to go look at what this person's background was, and I was like, "Oh, you've never fucking built anything." 'Cause that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Robert Herjavec 56:23 Yeah.

Codie Sanchez 56:23 Have you ever had one business where you're like, "Oh, my projections were perfect in the first three to five years?"

Robert Herjavec 56:29 That drives me, that drives me nuts. Like, when, when I sold out to equity and I got into that world, and know a lot of equity people, I often go to these meetings, I'm sitting there, and I'll be at a board meeting, and somebody on the board will say something, one of the equity people, and, and I'm like, "That doesn't make any sense." And I realize they've never operated a business.

Codie Sanchez 56:52 I know.

Robert Herjavec 56:53 There's a difference with being a financial operator and actually operating a business, and I think you can appreciate that.

Codie Sanchez 57:02 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 57:02 Now, I wish I would've learned how to play equity sooner.

Codie Sanchez 57:07 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 57:07 'Cause in some ways I could have sold my business sooner-

Codie Sanchez 57:11 Mm

Robert Herjavec 57:11 ... and gotten more money than when I did. Um, but I think every business is different. Some businesses just need a certain amount of capital in order to grow and start and get bigger. I didn't understand that-

Codie Sanchez 57:25 Yeah

Robert Herjavec 57:25 ... and I probably should have raised money and built better systems and better software.

Codie Sanchez 57:33 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 57:33 We had great sales-

Codie Sanchez 57:35 Mm

Robert Herjavec 57:35 ... great service, a good product.

Codie Sanchez 57:38 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 57:39 But we didn't have a great product, because our product was based on our ability to finance it.

Codie Sanchez 57:45 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 57:46 If I would've raised money and given up some equity, I could've built a great product.

Codie Sanchez 57:51 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 57:51 Now, hindsight is perfect. [laughs] I could have also raised money, blew up the whole thing, and ended up with nothing, so you never know. But I've learned to appreciate both. I think some businesses you just have to raise money-

Codie Sanchez 58:05 Yeah

Robert Herjavec 58:06 ... early.

Codie Sanchez 58:06 Yeah, can't build rockets without it. That's for sure.

Robert Herjavec 58:08 Can't build rockets, yeah.

Codie Sanchez 58:09 Did you ever have a moment where you had to get permission for somebody in your business to get to the next level, and you were like, "Man, you know,

Codie Sanchez 58:18 I have to get this person to say yes to me," or, "I have to get this-"

Robert Herjavec 58:21 Within the business?

Codie Sanchez 58:23 Anyway, and they were like, "I'm not gonna bet on you." Like, have you ever had somebody that's, like, created a chip on your shoulder, basically?

Robert Herjavec 58:33 Not really. I think-

Codie Sanchez 58:35 Or do you just forget about that because you're more of an optimistic person?

Robert Herjavec 58:38 Maybe-er. I think, so every business has a speed and a cadence to itself.

Codie Sanchez 58:44 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 58:45 Tech is very fast.

Codie Sanchez 58:46 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 58:47 So I've always been in tech. Tech moves very quickly. And I used to jokingly, but not really, say to people, "I am a great person to work with 99% of the time. The other 1%, you're gonna do it my frigging way. I don't care." So I used to get into rooms and we'd talk about it, and I'm a great guy to work with, I really am. I listen to people, I have a huge respect for people. I l- I, I appreciate the hard work people put in. Sometimes if I say we're going left, we're going left. And if you don't wanna go left, you are more than welcome to leave-

Codie Sanchez 59:30 Yeah

Robert Herjavec 59:30 ... because we are going left.

Codie Sanchez 59:32 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 59:33 And so that is the speed of the businesses. Many tech businesses fail because they can't make a decision. They wanna go left, and then they wanna go right.

Codie Sanchez 59:43 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 59:43 And they wanna go left when it's self-evident we should go left.

Codie Sanchez 59:48 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 59:48 When I sold my business, there was a small part of our business that was just growing, it was a new technology, and the people I sold it to didn't believe in it. They're like, "Ah, I don't know if we wanna get into that." I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is gonna be huge." So they did a lot of market research, they did some studies, and all the studies said to them that it wasn't clear this business was gonna work out, that part of the business. So I said to them on closing, I said, "Tell you what. I will take less money for my business. Let me keep that part of the business. Leave and do that." I oversold it. My conviction was so hard that it made them step back and say, "Maybe we should keep that part of the business," and they did, and now it's huge. When a decision is self-evident in tech, it's probably too late, meaning when I know something is going to happen and you know it also- One of us is too late if we haven't done something about it.

Codie Sanchez 1:00:51 It's a great point, because I think a lot of times in my career I've failed because, mm, I started early as a salesperson, which sometimes meant I was trying to get consensus. "Well, what do you really want?"

Robert Herjavec 1:01:03 Right.

Codie Sanchez 1:01:03 "Well, what are you trying to..." You know, and I would kinda try to frame what you wanted, 'cause I wanted to sell you what I got. And the more I've realized in entrepreneurship, it's like, no, no, no, whoever has the most confidence and this ability to execute is the winner.

Robert Herjavec 1:01:18 Do you think Elon Musk sits around and says, "Guys, how... What, what should we n- do next with this company?"

Codie Sanchez 1:01:25 Nope.

Robert Herjavec 1:01:26 He has a vision. He has a goal. I'm sure he's a great leader, brings the team along with him, but I'm pretty sure they're living his vision.

Codie Sanchez 1:01:35 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 1:01:36 And I used to be like you. I used to think, oh, because I think something, I can't be right. I need everybody else to be right.

Codie Sanchez 1:01:43 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 1:01:44 And very few people in life can see the future for... until it's obvious.

Codie Sanchez 1:01:49 Yeah. I'm also curious your thought. Like, do you think that even other successful people, sometimes they want you to tell them what's gonna happen, not necessarily always, you know, get their consensus in it?

Robert Herjavec 1:02:03 Human nature.

Codie Sanchez 1:02:04 Do you think that's true?

Robert Herjavec 1:02:05 I think that's human nature for everybody.

Codie Sanchez 1:02:07 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 1:02:07 I think we have a need for certainty.

Codie Sanchez 1:02:09 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 1:02:10 I think most people want certainty in their life, 'cause what's the alternative?

Codie Sanchez 1:02:15 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 1:02:15 How risky is it? Like, but when you think about it and you step back from it, how precarious is life?

Codie Sanchez 1:02:24 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 1:02:25 The other day I bought this old vintage car, uh, custom-made, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, long story made short, I started it and the accelerator gets stuck, and my house is up on a hill.

Codie Sanchez 1:02:38 Oh, shoot.

Robert Herjavec 1:02:38 And I actually smashed into another one of my cars. Everybody was fine. Cars were totaled. But if that car wasn't there, I would've gone off the hill.

Codie Sanchez 1:02:48 Oh, my God, Robert.

Robert Herjavec 1:02:50 And you think about that. I didn't wake up in the morning. I didn't know what was gonna happen to me that day. Like, how precarious is life?

Codie Sanchez 1:02:59 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 1:03:00 But most of us want certainty.

Codie Sanchez 1:03:03 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 1:03:03 We al- we always think the good is going to last longer than it is.

Codie Sanchez 1:03:08 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 1:03:09 And same with the bad.

Codie Sanchez 1:03:11 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 1:03:12 And so people that have the ability to live with risk and make hard decisions and go where others don't wanna go or can't see, and bring others along, I think that's the definition of leadership. And, you know, I, I think Elon Musk is a great leader. Look at the vision. Like The Boring Company, how incredible is that? Like, I, I just think about that, like tunnels underneath cities. That's so cool.

Codie Sanchez 1:03:44 Do you think that you can be a really good leader and a people pleaser?

Robert Herjavec 1:03:49 Yes. Yes, to a point. I think inevitably, to be a great leader... You asked me good.

Codie Sanchez 1:03:59 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 1:03:59 Inevitably, to be a great leader, you have to be great with people up to a point.

Codie Sanchez 1:04:09 Mm-hmm.

Robert Herjavec 1:04:09 And then you have to have that level where you don't care.

Codie Sanchez 1:04:14 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 1:04:15 I don't care if you agree with me. I don't care if you like me. I don't care what you think about me, but I need you to follow me. And if you're willing to follow me, I respect you. But if you're not in 100%, I need you to leave.

Codie Sanchez 1:04:31 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 1:04:31 Like, I think you have to have that edge. That was my problem. I was too nice a guy.

Codie Sanchez 1:04:36 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 1:04:36 I didn't have that edge. That's why guys like Mark, I had, like, ugh, but you have to have that edge in business in order to be great.

Codie Sanchez 1:04:46 Yeah. My husband jokingly calls it being a benevolent dictator.

Robert Herjavec 1:04:49 Very much.

Codie Sanchez 1:04:49 And so I always-

Robert Herjavec 1:04:50 Very much

Codie Sanchez 1:04:50 ... I always say, "This is a dictatorship. It's a nice one, but it is still a dictatorship."

Robert Herjavec 1:04:54 My wife always says, 'cause sometimes we'll be planning stuff, and she's like, "Uh-oh, Robert's in business mode."

Codie Sanchez 1:04:59 [laughs]

Robert Herjavec 1:05:00 And it's true. Like, I'm like, "Okay, no, we're going here. We're going there. We're gonna..." Like, I... Like, here's where we're going. Everything else is irrelevant.

Codie Sanchez 1:05:08 Yeah. There... I heard this great story about, um, Jony Ives, you know, the-

Robert Herjavec 1:05:13 Mm-hmm

Codie Sanchez 1:05:13 ... the designer for, uh, Steve Jobs, and he talked about how, at Steve's funeral, he, uh, kind of told a couple stories, and one of the stories, uh, was that him and Steve used to get into it quite a bit, because, uh, h- Jony one time told Steve, "Hey, you know, maybe you could be nicer to the team."

Robert Herjavec 1:05:34 [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 1:05:34 "You're kinda too direct. You could be a little nicer." And Steve looked at him and said, "Why?" And he said, "Well-"

Robert Herjavec 1:05:40 That's interesting

Codie Sanchez 1:05:41 ... you know, "Because I want... I, I like the team. I care about them a lot." And Steve looked at him and said, um, "No, you don't. You care about them liking you. I thought you cared-

Robert Herjavec 1:05:54 Oh, interesting. Wow

Codie Sanchez 1:05:54 ... the most about creating an incredible product and having the best team in the world, and instead, you're actually being quite vain."

Codie Sanchez 1:06:03 And, and Jony Ives was like, "And I was so pissed, because he was right." And I thought about that a little bit. I think about that a lot now in teams. You don't have to be a jerk, but maybe you do really have to hold the line.

Robert Herjavec 1:06:15 The quote I always remember, the mistake I used to make is, and now I get, like, I shiver when I hear it, when people say-

Codie Sanchez 1:06:21 Mm

Robert Herjavec 1:06:21 ... "Our business is like a family."

Codie Sanchez 1:06:23 Oh, yeah.

Robert Herjavec 1:06:24 "We're like a big family here."

Codie Sanchez 1:06:25 Oh, my God.

Robert Herjavec 1:06:25 I'm like, that's such bullshit, 'cause there are things I would do for my kids and things I would put up with from my wife and my kids that if you worked for me, I would fire you tomorrow. We are not a family.

Codie Sanchez 1:06:36 No.

Robert Herjavec 1:06:36 We're a team of people that respect each other-

Codie Sanchez 1:06:40 Mm-hmm

Robert Herjavec 1:06:40 ... towards a common mission. The best person I've ever worked with worked with me in three companies over 35 years. I've never been to his house for dinner.

Codie Sanchez 1:06:52 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 1:06:53 We've had dinner maybe twice. Do I like him? Sure. Would I... If I had a free day, would I call him up and hang out? No. But I love his business acumen-

Codie Sanchez 1:07:10 Mm-hmm

Robert Herjavec 1:07:10 ... and I respect him more than almost anybody in business. That's the difference.

Codie Sanchez 1:07:18 So true.

Robert Herjavec 1:07:19 You don't have to like me, you have to respect me.

Codie Sanchez 1:07:22 Yeah.

Robert Herjavec 1:07:22 And you have to respect the mission that we're here to do.

Codie Sanchez 1:07:26 To wrap up, what is, what is the best lesson you've received from a mentor in business as you've come up? Like, do you remember a moment where somebody had that Steve Jobs, Jony Ive's with you?

Robert Herjavec 1:07:40 You know, Codie, I've been really, really lucky. I've had so many great mentors. I've worked for Warren Avis. I've, you know, Shark Tank, you get to meet all these incredibly successful people. I think, for me, the big turning point to create where I am now was the difference between a paycheck and creating wealth.

Codie Sanchez 1:08:10 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 1:08:10 And I always call it, I had a poverty mindset-

Codie Sanchez 1:08:14 Mm

Robert Herjavec 1:08:14 ... and a wealth mindset.

Codie Sanchez 1:08:16 Mm.

Robert Herjavec 1:08:16 And a poverty mindset works to make a living. I started my first company to make a living. I started my first company to pay my mortgage payment. I got fired, didn't have enough time to make a mortgage payment, started a business. Somewhere along the way, I made enough money to earn a living, but not build a life that I wanted. And my dad had a great saying, "It's great to dream. It's better to pay your bills." [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 1:08:50 So good.

Robert Herjavec 1:08:50 And it's so true. I think that's probably the best piece of advice I've ever gotten, is once you've taken care of paying your bills in life, you can have grand dreams all you want.

Codie Sanchez 1:09:03 What a good spot to end it.

Robert Herjavec 1:09:04 [laughs]

Codie Sanchez 1:09:04 Robert, you're the man. I learned so much from you, watching you on Shark Tank over the years, but then getting to know you and watching you, you know, build, but then pour back into other people, it's just really inspiring. So thank you for being here today.

Robert Herjavec 1:09:17 Thank you for having me. Love what you do.

Codie Sanchez 1:09:19 Thank you. And right back at you.

Robert Herjavec 1:09:19 I think your message for America is the right message at this time. Anybody can buy a business and be successful. [outro music]