Your Ego Is Keeping You Poor | Bill Perkins

1. 0:00 – 2:50

   Ego and Wealth: The Hidden Connection

   1. BPBill Perkins0:00

      A lot of people are afraid of risk, not because they can't stomach the financial risk, but their egos can't stand, uh, stand looking like an idiot or being wrong. You're not gonna be homeless. You will not be starving. You will be clothed, sheltered, and feed yourself. What risk you have is your ego. You don't wanna be a garbage man, or you don't wanna be a waiter, or you don't wanna be a restaurant worker. And so therefore, you can't take that ego hit, and then you will not go live your dreams.

   2. CSCodie Sanchez0:23

      I stole one of my richest friends for us this episode. I wanted him to tell us how our ego is keeping us poor, and what are the secrets that rich people use to make more money. During that time, he also is [laughs] going to tell us things like how he had a $54 million tax bill, uh, one year. No big deal. He's also going to talk about decision-making in general. So if you have ever wanted to make cleaner, clearer decisions, if you feel like there are these problems in front of you and you can't find your blind spots, and thus can't get the problem out of the way, you're gonna like this episode. And if you wanna figure out how to get really rich people or really impressive people to bet on you and become a person of consequences, you're going to like this episode. So without further ado, I wanna introduce my friend Bill Perkins, multi-billion dollar hedge fund manager, best-selling author of Die With Zero, also amateur poker player, and one of the most asymmetric thinkers that I've ever heard. He encourages me to think bigger and probably made me millions and millions of dollars through just two conversations with him. So I think he can do the same for you today. [applause] I don't think I've told the story to this group here before-

   3. BPBill Perkins1:29

      [laughs]

   4. CSCodie Sanchez1:30

      But do you remember when we were walking at your house, it would've been the first time-

   5. BPBill Perkins1:35

      Right

   6. CSCodie Sanchez1:35

      ... on the grass. And we're walking along and, um, I was telling Bill an idea I had about how to help all of you, how to help business buyers and builders buy more businesses. And I had, like, what I thought was a really good idea, right? I was like, "This is a really big idea. It's gonna be big." And, um, and I'm telling Bill... And if you guys ever, like, um, told an idea to your spouse that you were like, "I'm so excited. This idea's gonna be so big," and your spouse just goes... Bah, bah, bah, bah, and just, like, starts kicking... Anybody? Is that just me?

   7. BPBill Perkins2:07

      No. [laughs]

   8. CSCodie Sanchez2:07

      So Bill did the most amazing thing to me that I'll always appreciate him for, which is I told him my idea, and he looked at me and he goes, "Hmm. Do you think that you've been investing in small business for so long that small has infected your thinking?" Do you remember this?

   9. BPBill Perkins2:20

      Yeah, I remember that. [laughs]

   10. CSCodie Sanchez2:22

       [laughs] And now somebody might say, "Well, why would you be really glad somebody said that to you?" Because without Bill saying a hard thing that I needed to hear in a moment in which I was probably playing pretty small, I wasn't taking much risk at all, actually.

   11. BPBill Perkins2:37

       Right.

   12. CSCodie Sanchez2:37

       It was something I could have 1000% accomplished. There was almost no world in which I wouldn't have done the first thing I was talking to Bill about. I had somebody who had seen in the future already. He had a bigger bank account than I did. He had built bigger things than I had.

2. 2:50 – 6:11

   The Importance of Speed in Decision Making

   1. CSCodie Sanchez2:50

      And he said to me, "Is that all you got? Is that all you got?" And I will tell you that if you're not in rooms like this often or walking with Bill along his house, you're not gonna get somebody like that. And so what I hope you take away from today, we're gonna talk a lot about a lot, but I wanna talk about risk with Bill. I wanna talk about how you make decisions. I wanna talk about how you choose what you wanna do next, 'cause very few people will tell you the things that you need to hear, not what you want to hear. Am I right? Can I get a little yep on that?

   2. BPBill Perkins3:17

      Yeah.

   3. CSCodie Sanchez3:17

      All right. Um, so Bill, now that I've painted you in such a lovely light-

   4. BPBill Perkins3:21

      Yeah. Thanks. [laughs]

   5. CSCodie Sanchez3:23

      [laughs]

   6. BPBill Perkins3:23

      Dream crusher. No. [laughs]

   7. CSCodie Sanchez3:24

      Dream, dream question.

   8. BPBill Perkins3:25

      No, no.

   9. CSCodie Sanchez3:25

      Um, I wanna start with, uh, we've talked about speed before.

   10. BPBill Perkins3:30

       Right.

   11. CSCodie Sanchez3:31

       And how important speed is to making money. And the faster you move, in many ways, the more money you make. Um, but I'd like to... I've never gone further with you into that question. How do you think about speed and moving fast, and how do you know if you're moving fast enough on the decisions you wanna make in life?

   12. BPBill Perkins3:48

       Um, well, first I wanna say, you know, not a dream crusher, I just wanna hold you accountable to your best self, right? Like, you, you, you definitely had all the ingredients to s- as somebody I would wanna bet on.

   13. CSCodie Sanchez4:00

       Mm.

   14. BPBill Perkins4:00

       And your, your dreams, your ideas were much bigger than that. You weren't thinking bigger. Um, and you know, I told you at the time, I said, "The money is easy. It's having an idea that you can execute on." There's tons of money. There's tons of rich guys that don't wanna work. They just wanna invest in somebody and make a good return. Question is, how do we find these executors? And when we find them, they dump cash into them, and they go golfing or flying or doing whatever they wanna do. And so I wanted you to think big because it w- it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be hard for you to raise money, right? Like, after you went around, you were, like, trying to cram me down 'cause these other guys wanna come in-

   15. CSCodie Sanchez4:34

       [laughs] It's true

   16. BPBill Perkins4:34

       ... and this guy wanna come in. I'm like, "No, that guy can't get in," right? [laughs]

   17. CSCodie Sanchez4:37

       [laughs] That did happen.

   18. BPBill Perkins4:39

       And so, um, what happened if you thought about that idea three years ago? What if you executed on that f- you know, a little bit faster? What if you, you know, thought a little bit bigger and moved a little bit faster, where would you be now?

   19. CSCodie Sanchez4:51

       Mm.

   20. BPBill Perkins4:51

       How big would this conference be? How many people would be knocking down your door to figure out how you did it? And so, you know, we're human beings. We're not institutions. We don't live that long, and there's periods in our life, and, and I just think that life in itself is urgent, um, and important. And your dreams are important. And that advantage of, of action, you know, speed implies action. You're not just speed running around in a circle. You're moving towards your dreams. And so it's almost, um, taking yourself serious and your dream seriously by executing. What else should you be doing, right, according to your values? And so I think it's very important, and it's, you know, my willingness to take risk and my ability or my willingness- To move quickly towards my goals is, are the only advantages I have.

   21. CSCodie Sanchez5:39

       What if 2025 wasn't just a year of grind, but a year of ownership and flow? That's the idea behind my first ever three-day virtual event this February. It's not just a conference, it's a movement, and it starts with you. Over three information-packed days, we're gonna tackle everything you need to take control, from finding the perfect business to negotiating killer deals, to building the mindset of a true owner. This isn't just a theory. We're bringing in laser coaching on real deals and sharing the exact strategies to spot opportunities everywhere. Here's the thing, this isn't about me. It's about Owner Nation,

3. 6:11 – 9:04

   Risk: Ego vs. Financial Reality

   1. CSCodie Sanchez6:11

      a collective of driven, unstoppable individuals ready to rewrite their futures. This is your movement and your moment to connect with others who are fighting for the same goal, freedom through ownership. No one else is doing this. We've never done it before, and I think it's the first of its kind. So it's your shot to be part of something bigger when it comes to ownership. Visit the link in the description to save your seat, and let's make 2025 the year we own it together. Yeah. Well, I, I think you got a few other too.

   2. BPBill Perkins6:36

      [laughs]

   3. CSCodie Sanchez6:36

      You got a pretty big brain. But, um, you know, I was, like, doing some research on you, which is funny to do with friends, uh, 'cause I hadn't, like, dug in that much in the past, and there was a line that I loved. The Wall Street Journal actually called you, uh... Well, first it said you're one of the world's most successful hedge fund managers, and then it called you the last cowboy, which I had never heard before.

   4. BPBill Perkins6:57

      Yeah.

   5. CSCodie Sanchez6:57

      Do you know why they called you that?

   6. BPBill Perkins6:58

      Yeah. It was somebody in the industry who, uh, just kind of said, "Yeah, he's kind of like the last cowboy, the person willing to take risks to, to trade in kind of this commodity, um, really put it on the line and have no fear, uh, to the result, but be in love with the process," right? Like, if, if this is the correct action to take, this is the action I take. Uh, a lot of people are afraid of risk, um, not because they can't stomach the financial risk, but their egos can't stand, uh, stand looking like an idiot or being wrong.

   7. CSCodie Sanchez7:29

      Mm.

   8. BPBill Perkins7:30

      You know?

   9. CSCodie Sanchez7:31

      Yeah. Well, talk about that a little bit more, because in this community, like, you just kind of m- mind fucked me slightly back in the other room.

   10. BPBill Perkins7:37

       [laughs]

   11. CSCodie Sanchez7:37

       Which is this idea of like, do we have risk?

   12. BPBill Perkins7:41

       Yeah. Most of the people when I step into a room like this, y- I, I think everybody in this room has subject-verb agreement, um, some level of education, is pretty ambitious and intelligent, which means they can get a job anywhere. So when they go out to start their business, from a financial perspective, they have zero risk. Zero. You're not gonna be homeless. You will not be starving. You will be clothed, sheltered, and feed yourself. What risk you have is your ego. You don't wanna be a garbage man, or you don't wanna be a waiter, or you don't wanna be a restaurant worker, and so therefore, you can't take that ego hit, and then you will not go live your dreams. You'll play it safe to stay in your ego space and your relative position amongst your friends. You don't wanna look like an idiot to yourself, 'cause sometimes we're our, we're our own worst critic. And so when people talk about risk, you know, I hear... I was at, um, uh, Rice yesterday at the business school, and he says, "Well, I talked to these MBA graduates about losing it all on risk," and I was, I, I literally said, "What the fuck are you talking about losing it all?" They're, these guys can get a job tomorrow. Six-figure job tomorrows, you know? There's no risk, right? And so earlier on in my life, when I was a screen clerk, um, I was making, like, $16,000 a year. My friend left the floor to go become a waiter, and he was making $75,000 a year cash in New York. This was like 20 years ago, right?

4. 9:04 – 11:52

   Building Teams: The Role of Visionaries and Executors

   1. BPBill Perkins9:05

      So what risk did he have? He just quit and didn't wanna go do it. And I, I went chasing the big dream, you know, to be the big trader and make a bunch of money. And so I, I, I say to most people, um, at this level of education and intelligence, like, there's no financial risk. There's only ego risk.

   2. CSCodie Sanchez9:21

      Mm. Can you guys internalize that? Like, do you feel that as deeply as I do? Like, at the end of the day, we talk about risk, and I think, "Oh, my God, what if somebody bought a business and it failed and they went bankrupt?" And when I think that, I think you died. I'm like, "Oh, my God, that's our fault. Did anything happen?"

   3. BPBill Perkins9:36

      [laughs]

   4. CSCodie Sanchez9:36

      "Are we gonna make it? Did we lose a limb?" Does anybody feel like that too with businesses? It's like, um, almost like our biggest fear is, uh, public humiliation-

   5. BPBill Perkins9:44

      It is

   6. CSCodie Sanchez9:45

      ... like they say.

   7. BPBill Perkins9:45

      It is. It is. It is the... And so when, um, you f- you know, the, people-- I also say that people like success, but they love a failure.

   8. CSCodie Sanchez9:53

      Mm.

   9. BPBill Perkins9:54

      Um, y- and the reason why people love a failure is not that they're evil, but it validates their own cowardice.

   10. CSCodie Sanchez10:00

       Mm.

   11. BPBill Perkins10:01

       Right? They had dreams too that they didn't go pursue. There's risks that they didn't take. And so when you fail, they're like, "See? I, I, I'm glad I didn't do it. Look what happened to so-and-so. He's a waiter now," or, "Now he's working for so-and-so. He tried that big idea and it failed, and he looks like an idiot." I, I'm lucky that I, I'm okay looking like an idiot, and I often do. Um, [laughs] and so, and so that allows me the freedom to go try some things that have failed. You know, I went down to El Salvador and spent a bunch of years trying to build this giant LNG project, 500 million megawatt project. It failed miserably.

   12. CSCodie Sanchez10:35

       How much money do you think that cost?

   13. BPBill Perkins10:36

       I lost $10 million doing that.

   14. CSCodie Sanchez10:38

       Wow.

   15. BPBill Perkins10:38

       You know, when I, when it was, when $10 million was, like, a significant portion of my net worth. Um, I tried to do one in California, went through all the works. That failed, you know? But I like to swing big, and I like to take the risk. I'm like, what's, worse come to worse, I'll get a job.

   16. CSCodie Sanchez10:55

       So how do you decide, like, what is your mental gymnastics that you do when you decide, "I'm going to execute on this idea versus this idea"? How do you, how do you decide what is going to be worth the risk or not?

   17. BPBill Perkins11:07

       I mean, you know, I say there's always, there's a, a zillion ways to make money or get rich. I mean, if you think of a field, there's a millionaire in that field-

   18. CSCodie Sanchez11:15

       Mm

   19. BPBill Perkins11:15

       ... whether it's shoe lastings, pizza, garbage, renewables, energy, buying business, finance, et cetera. So one of the things I look at is that, will I be consistent? And does this align with my values and mission statement? Do I wanna do this?

   20. CSCodie Sanchez11:29

       Mm-hmm.

   21. BPBill Perkins11:30

       Right? Uh, and then it's, can I execute? Can I execute? Can I get people aligned that are actually gonna execute? 'Cause most of the time I'm firing myself. I'm not the guy, right? I wanna be working on my business, not in my business. Mainly because I'm not the smartest guy in the room in, at that thing. Like, I'm not the best sales guy, I'm not the best spreadsheet guy, I'm not the best

5. 11:52 – 15:08

   Peak Utility of Time and Money

   1. BPBill Perkins11:52

      at any of this thing, but I am the vision guy and the guy that will move fast, take risks, and willingness to learn, and I have that curiosity. And so if I meet, if I stay curio- curious, and I stay consistent, and I have a vision, I'm able to enroll people in that vision, then it doesn't matter what the business is, I can get rich in it.

   2. CSCodie Sanchez12:08

      I love that. By the way, you guys, he flew in here just to talk to you today. How about that?

   3. SPSpeaker12:13

      [clapping]

   4. BPBill Perkins12:15

      [laughs]

   5. SPSpeaker12:16

      [clapping]

   6. BPBill Perkins12:16

      And you. I mean, you have a big [laughs]

   7. CSCodie Sanchez12:18

      [laughs] Um, the second, uh, thing that I, I've really learned a lot about you, watching you, is, uh, we all wanna learn how to build teams, right? We know that we don't wanna just have a job, we wanna have a business. And I watch how you handle your team by interacting with them. You have one guy, Omar-

   8. BPBill Perkins12:36

      Yeah

   9. CSCodie Sanchez12:36

      ... who is totally different than you.

   10. BPBill Perkins12:38

       Yes.

   11. CSCodie Sanchez12:38

       Can you talk about how you found him, why, how you figured out that was the person you needed for this specific role?

   12. BPBill Perkins12:45

       Yes. Um, so I think it was around 2008, 2009 when, um, all the banks were laying off everybody, right? The, the world was ending. Nomar was in New York, and trying to convince somebody from New York at that time to move to Texas is kinda crazy. And, you know, I really had to enroll him on the vision, uh, of what he can get out of life and the things he can do here that is different from a bank. And so, and what I enrolled him on was on the risk and the ability to execute in his area of expertise, right? If you're in a bank, you're way up in a bank, you're like high up in IBM or a bank, et cetera, you can't do a $50,000 experiment. Your budget is so tight, you can't go, you can't go, "Hmm, I think this might work. Let's, uh, it's gonna take $50,000 to find out the answer. May work, may not." I'm like, "Okay, let's FAFO, fuck around and find out," you know?

   13. SPSpeaker13:34

       [laughs]

   14. CSCodie Sanchez13:34

       [laughs]

   15. BPBill Perkins13:35

       That, that does not exist in these organizations, right? [laughs] And so the freedom to be himself, to, to execute on his area of expertise, for me to step back and let him be, be, us to debate and figure things out, that was very appealing. You know, it's a little scary, like, that doesn't exist, right? Like e- in, even in our companies we're like, if we're not failing, we're not trying.

   16. CSCodie Sanchez14:00

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   17. BPBill Perkins14:02

       Right? We're not just, we're not trying hard enough, we're playing it safe.

   18. CSCodie Sanchez14:05

       You know, the other thing that, that is really interesting is like, so when I came to Bill and, and we were, and I was trying to figure out, y- how do I build this next thing, and I was getting his advice, um, one of the other things you did that I think really highly of is you go, "Ask Omar about that."

   19. BPBill Perkins14:17

       Mm-hmm.

   20. CSCodie Sanchez14:17

       Like, that's not a me question. That's a him question.

   21. BPBill Perkins14:20

       Yeah.

   22. CSCodie Sanchez14:20

       And so I kinda picture you as like visionary, which do a lot of people think of themselves a visionary in the room? Like, you're the person who has the idea. How many people think of themselves as like implementer or operator in here? That's interesting, 50/50 split. Um, to me, you're the vision and Omar is like guardrails, bumper rails.

   23. BPBill Perkins14:37

       Yeah, I think, I think, you know, a lot of times I'm like, "This is the magically where I wanna go. I understand like, hey, if we calculate the math on this, and it's this and this, this is gonna work. But am I gonna go in, run the whole spreadsheet, get all, all... No, that's not me. I don't like it. I don't wanna do it. Could I do it if I had to? Yes. But this is where he, he, he's an expert and he's gonna be very detailed in thinking about it. And so, you know, like I said, I love to fire myself, right? Like, I am not the best at that, so I let the

6. 15:08 – 17:54

   Aligning Family and Business Goals

   1. BPBill Perkins15:08

      people who are best at that do that, and I get the hell out of their way.

   2. CSCodie Sanchez15:12

      Yeah, that's lovely.

   3. BPBill Perkins15:12

      Like, you know, I wanna be working on my business, not in my business. If you wanna have a pizza parlor, you can work on your business. You can make the pizza, you can do the oven, you can do the hiring and firing, et cetera. You wanna be Pizza Hut, you cannot be that person. You have to be working on your business. You have to let people handle that store, do all those things, and you're looking like, "Okay, next location over there." And even then, after you think, "I think this is a good idea," then you get your land guy and do all the a- analytics about the demographics and how many people go out there and what the income is, et cetera. And then that's how you build an empire. Either one is okay, right? And so when I talked to you, I was like, "What's this mom and pop shit you're talking about?"

   4. CSCodie Sanchez15:49

      [laughs]

   5. BPBill Perkins15:50

      [laughs]

   6. CSCodie Sanchez15:51

      You did.

   7. BPBill Perkins15:51

      Let's, let's, let's go. You know what I mean? Let's go.

   8. CSCodie Sanchez15:53

      You're right. Um, the other thing that's interesting is, um, he kind of CYAs. Like, he protects you, and I think a lot of times w- like when I have a lot of young leaders, I try to, I push them a lot so that they're, they will push their team, 'cause their team doesn't protect them. And if their team doesn't protect them, then they don't protect me, right?

   9. BPBill Perkins16:12

      Right.

   10. CSCodie Sanchez16:13

       It's almost like shit rolls uphill sometimes when you're a leader. And if you don't make your, your juniors handle their stuff, you're gonna be in charge of it. Omar really protects you. Is there a way you think about screening something, somebody like that, or you incentivize them so that your people are like your bulldogs?

   11. BPBill Perkins16:31

       I, I think, you know, th- they understand that they have like a mini business within there, right?

   12. CSCodie Sanchez16:35

       Mm-hmm.

   13. BPBill Perkins16:35

       Like, they wanna get paid first. That's fine. I wanna take all the risk.

   14. CSCodie Sanchez16:38

       Mm.

   15. BPBill Perkins16:38

       And, you know, my CFO calls me meal ticket.

   16. CSCodie Sanchez16:42

       [laughs]

   17. SPSpeaker16:42

       [laughs]

   18. BPBill Perkins16:42

       So, you know, like [laughs] they, they get it. Like, I am the meal ticket, right?

   19. CSCodie Sanchez16:45

       [laughs]

   20. BPBill Perkins16:46

       Like, I, I created this organization that that's where their, that's where their great insurance comes from. That's where their salaries come from, et cetera. And so as this machine keeps running, which I'm an integral part of, you know, they're fine. And so he has a, a very, very, very nice job, right? A lot of freedom, um, both where he's located, et cetera, what he does, experiments, you know, things he wants to investigate. He, he, I would protect that. I was like, what, what things do I need to make sure that this keeps going, right? Like, so protect your meal ticket. [laughs]

   21. CSCodie Sanchez17:21

       Yeah, I love that. Well, and also be okay talking about yourself like that, 'cause I think sometimes owners, we're like, there's this whole, like, servant leadership idea, which is true, but I think you also have to say, I said to my, my content team, I'm like, "What is your number one creative asset right now at Contrarian Thinking?" What do you think they said?

   22. SPSpeaker17:36

       You.

   23. CSCodie Sanchez17:37

       Great answer.

   24. BPBill Perkins17:37

       [laughs]

   25. SPSpeaker17:38

       [laughs]

   26. CSCodie Sanchez17:38

       They were like, "Is it you two?" I was like, "Goddammit, it's me."

   27. BPBill Perkins17:41

       Yeah. [laughs]

   28. SPSpeaker17:42

       [laughs]

   29. CSCodie Sanchez17:42

       Um, and that feels weird to say, right?

   30. BPBill Perkins17:45

       Yeah.
7. 17:54 – 23:57

   Navigating Business Opportunities

   1. CSCodie Sanchez17:54

      them. But until then, you have to be okay as the owner kinda saying, "Hey, I need you to take care of me, because if I die, this dies, and right now you're killing me." And so, um, I like the way you run your teams that way.

   2. BPBill Perkins18:08

      Yeah.

   3. CSCodie Sanchez18:08

      And it's almost like it's so aligned.

   4. BPBill Perkins18:11

      Yeah. They, I mean, they have their important function, and they know what, what's going on, but the organization, like we are a living, breathing organism, and they have their part, and it's like we can't have the head get cut off. Right?

   5. CSCodie Sanchez18:21

      Right.

   6. BPBill Perkins18:22

      And we gotta protect them. Like, if there's an area where there's like a question or they're negotiating a deal, like I'm out here strategic thinking, right? Like I'm, I may miss all these things. They have to do all that for me, and I trust them to do that for me so that my neurons can work on the other things and keep this thing growing.

   7. CSCodie Sanchez18:38

      Yeah. Do you think you're hard for work, to work for?

   8. BPBill Perkins18:41

      I, I don't know. I, I think, uh, there's this... At first, people think there's this idea that I'm not approachable, but I'm like-

   9. CSCodie Sanchez18:47

      Mm

   10. BPBill Perkins18:47

       ... very approachable. Like I, I come in looking like the pizza delivery boy. I come in jeans and ball cap. Uh, you know, I'll talk about anything. Um, and once they realize, like wow, I, I'm, I have all this freedom, I have all this structure, I can push back. Like, I like... They think I wanna debate because I'm, I'm, you know, I'm right. I'm like, "No, I'm debating to come to a consensus to get to the answer. I'm just as curious as you are. Probably more curious." And so, um, I think it's easy.

   11. CSCodie Sanchez19:16

       Mm.

   12. BPBill Perkins19:16

       I'm pretty like, you know, a lot of times they're like, "Oh, I w- I want, I want a raise," or, "I want to do this," and I'm like, "I really don't know. Let's see what market is."

   13. CSCodie Sanchez19:23

       Mm.

   14. BPBill Perkins19:24

       Like, I'm not like, "You should get paid this." I'm like, "What is the market?" And then I pay at the top of the market.

   15. CSCodie Sanchez19:29

       Yeah.

   16. BPBill Perkins19:29

       You know? Golden handcuff 'em. [laughs]

   17. CSCodie Sanchez19:33

       [laughs] Ah, I love that.

   18. BPBill Perkins19:34

       [laughs]

   19. CSCodie Sanchez19:35

       One thing that you... You know, you have two ideas that I've, I've really learned a lot from. One is peak utility of money, and I would almost say also peak utility of time.

   20. BPBill Perkins19:45

       Right.

   21. CSCodie Sanchez19:46

       Can you talk about assistants, peak utility of time first?

   22. BPBill Perkins19:50

       Yeah. So like I, I saw you talking about the a- the assistant comment. So w- you know, when I invest in you, right, I'm in... It's not like you're gonna go out and like box somebody or dig ditches. You're gonna use your brain and your neurons. And so I'm investing in your time to execute, and it's extremely valuable. I trust and I value. But if you're out there getting groceries and filling up your gas tank and worrying about this, I'm like, "Wait a minute. Uh, you're not a $10, $15 a hour person. Like, why are you doing that when your neurons could be the next greatest idea for your business, make it run efficiently, make it 10X, whatever? You should be offloading everything that is below your hourly rate to somebody else so I can get more Codie," right? Just you having an assistant, I might get 30% more Codie.

   23. CSCodie Sanchez20:39

       Yeah.

   24. BPBill Perkins20:39

       I might get two Codie's if you get three assistants, right? And so that's a great deal for me, and that's a great deal for you. Like, shed all the stuff that you should not be doing so that you can focus on your goals and your dreams and your values. It's just inefficient allocation of resources. Like, if you're sweeping floors, I'm like, "What are you doing?" If you're going to the grocery store, unless you like checking out what new nuts they have, sometimes I do-

   25. CSCodie Sanchez21:04

       [laughs]

   26. BPBill Perkins21:05

       ... I'm like, "What are you doing? What are you doing?" You're denying somebody a job, and you're doing ineffective allocation of a very valuable resource, you know? You didn't go to college and do all this learning and go through the school of hard knocks to be pumping gas. And so I, I, you know, I, I don't wanna invest in that. I wanna invest in Codie. I wanna invest in Codie the dreamer, the person thinking about business and this turnover and the baby boomers and scaling it up and then integrating their systems and all the other things you can do, uh, uh, buying these small businesses and this idea that you're having. Not Codie like, "I need to... Do I have enough peanut butter and milk?" You know? That, that, that's just crazy.

   27. CSCodie Sanchez21:45

       Yeah, I love it. The other thing that you talked about, too, which I think resonates, there's a lot of couples in here today, too, is getting your partner on board, too. So I remember Chris came the second time, and you know, we were walking around, and we talked about, like what tasks are you both doing-

   28. BPBill Perkins22:00

       Yeah

   29. CSCodie Sanchez22:00

       ... you know, in your marriage, too, which is not theoretically normal for you to talk about with a potential investor or even just a, a friend, a fellow business owner. And, and I thought that that was really useful. How do you think about, like getting your family, your partner on board? Because I know family's really important to you, too.

   30. BPBill Perkins22:15

       Yeah, we, I, I mean, we have to meet and figure, like what, what's my role here and what's your role, and then that, how does our time get divided, right? Because if you, if you s- if you go on this, like adventure and your life partner, your highest value, right, like, you know, where all your fulfill- a- m- most, if not all of your fulfillment is gonna come from this relationship, your interpersonal relationships, and you're not on board, and like you're, you're having all this friction, that's a problem. That's a real problem. Um, you know, and it, it, it's, it's wealth destroying and dream destroying and fulfillment destroying just from, like letting these little cracks keep, like on, on a windshield, you know what I mean? It's like this teeny little crack, and the next thing you know you can't see, right? And so I think, like frequently getting aligned and discussing, um, and having those difficult conversations about, "Hey, you're spending too much time on this," or, "How are we gonna allocate these resources? Are you on board?" Getting buy-in. And once you have buy-in, it's like, "Hey, let's go. It's gonna be tough, but let's go."
8. 23:57 – 24:57

   The Depth of Personal Investment

   1. BPBill Perkins23:57

      at, at one level like there's these de-risk businesses that people are gonna be selling that are profitable that you can pick up, finance below market, et cetera. Great. Maybe I can pick up a couple. Great, now I'm at scale. What about all the derivative value in that business? The data I can optimize. Now I got, let's just go really big, I got a million employees across all these businesses. How much cheaper is my insurance, my paper? Uh, how much data do I have? I don't need a Fed survey, I am the Fed survey.

   2. CSCodie Sanchez24:27

      [laughs]

   3. BPBill Perkins24:29

      Maybe I wanna market something. Maybe I can partner with other businesses that sell services and take a piece of that going throughout, through, through all those, uh, employees. I'm too big to fail now. Re- you know? So there's all these other things that y- you could start thinking, and I'm not bright enough to think about all these things, right? Um, what, what value that provides and how much capital it is, but that's gonna be a individual decision, right? There may be a concept but enough. It's like I'm, I'm good with 20 car washes. I don't need 100,000

9. 24:57 – 25:56

   Defining Personal Success and Fulfillment

   1. BPBill Perkins24:57

      car washes, or I don't wanna be that big. Maybe I'll pitch it out to somebody else later and let them take it from that point on. And so, you know, since I'm not doing the work, you are, I'm like, "Let's go big. I'll give you the money." [laughs]

   2. CSCodie Sanchez25:09

      [laughs]

   3. BPBill Perkins25:09

      You know? It, it's a lot of fun. I th- I think for me, that's great, you know? But when you're there running it, maybe you're like, "You know, Bill, I'm gonna take it to this point, and then we can pitch it out to somebody else," and that's for you to decide about your life journey and what you want out of life, right?

   4. CSCodie Sanchez25:25

      Yeah.

   5. BPBill Perkins25:25

      'Cause at the end of the day, the money, the business, et cetera, it's, it's fun, but there, for me, it's just to drive my fulfillment. Like, I don't buy hammers and saws 'cause I like hammers and saws, I'm buying hammers and saws to build a house. The same way I don't acquire money because I like money, the money is there for me to live the life that I want, the other things. Now, work is fun, and winning is fun, and doing these businesses are fun, but ultimately, it's for me to build the complete and entire life that I want and be fulfilled.

   6. CSCodie Sanchez25:55

      Um, I want

10. 25:56 – 27:46

    Balancing Wealth and Life Experiences

    1. CSCodie Sanchez25:56

       you guys to start thinking about your questions 'cause I'm gonna come to you next. But, um, for my, my final question here, I mean, you made a lot of money. You have all the toys. You know, you... Maybe not all, in your mind.

    2. BPBill Perkins26:09

       Right.

    3. CSCodie Sanchez26:09

       I can see you go up and to the left-

    4. BPBill Perkins26:10

       [laughs] Yeah, yeah

    5. CSCodie Sanchez26:11

       ... and think, "No, there's a couple I want still."

    6. BPBill Perkins26:12

       Yeah.

    7. CSCodie Sanchez26:12

       Um, but you, you have, like, a ton of material wealth, obviously, but you keep playing the game at, like, a high level with a lot of risk. Why?

    8. BPBill Perkins26:20

       Um, well, I'm not necessarily attached to the toys, et cetera, and there are certain things that I want. Like, I will not risk things that I have for something that I don't have unless I really want that thing, right? And there are certain things that, like, you know, I still want. But as long as this doesn't interfere with the rest of my life, I will keep doing it, right? And so the blessing and curse of technology is is that I can work from my phone, right? Everything's on my phone. Spreadsheets, DocuSign, you know, video calls. It's like Dick Tra- you know, I'm old enough to remember, like-

    9. CSCodie Sanchez26:50

       [laughs]

    10. BPBill Perkins26:50

        ... the Dick Tracy cartoons, right? Two-way radio watch. It's even better than what they, what they said in that regards. And so remote work, um, I'm, uh, I'm able to, you know, be working on a boat on vacation and then my off- you know, jump off into the water. Um, and I enjoy, like you said, I'm really working for my employees, right? I'm building this, right? Like, I have b- if you include... I have one startup, I think they have, like, 100 employees. Another one that's at, like, 40. My family office, et cetera. This is like a mini army, couple platoons, as Chris would say-

    11. CSCodie Sanchez27:24

        [laughs]

    12. BPBill Perkins27:25

        ... of people that, you know, I'm working for, that I'm help building for and keeping this ecosystem growing. And then with that other capital, I help you realize your dreams, right? Like, I'm a part of the building block-

    13. CSCodie Sanchez27:38

        Yep

    14. BPBill Perkins27:38

        ... to do that. And, and that's fulfilling for me. But if it becomes an interference with my life, like you said, like, I'm getting older, right? Like,

11. 27:46 – 29:59

    The Importance of Shared Experiences

    1. BPBill Perkins27:46

       I don't wanna... I'm not here to die like Scrooge McDuck on a pile of money. I'm gonna use it all up before I die becau- and, and not only before I die, but before I'm unable to convert it into the experiences I wanna have, right? If I wanna go heli-skiing, it's not at 86, you know?

    2. CSCodie Sanchez28:03

       [laughs]

    3. BPBill Perkins28:03

       It's now. I don't wanna go heli-skiing. But, uh, [laughs] y- y- but you get the idea. The, your ability to convert your capital into meaningful experiences or useful experiences declines as you age. Your lung capacity goes down, your muscle mass goes down, your fragility goes up, your, your, even your attitude. You're like, "I don't like that anymore. I used to love glow sticks partying in the club." Now I'm like, "Come on." [laughs]

    4. CSCodie Sanchez28:25

       [laughs]

    5. BPBill Perkins28:26

       You know what I mean? I'm a lounge and listen to this jazz, right?

    6. CSCodie Sanchez28:29

       [laughs]

    7. BPBill Perkins28:29

       And so, so there's a time for everything. And so I, I'm, I'm r- I'm acutely aware of that. Uh, and I wanna make sure that I deploy these resources at the right time throughout my life.

    8. CSCodie Sanchez28:40

       Yeah. I think also we talk about a lot you can't be what you can't see, and so one of the things that I really respect about you overall is you also have a shit ton of fun. Like, like, how many times do I get a text message from you and Luke at SkyFi, and it's, like, a Thursday night, and I have to work all day Friday, and you guys are playing fucking laser tag-

    9. BPBill Perkins28:58

       Yeah, laser tag-

    10. CSCodie Sanchez28:59

        At his house

    11. BPBill Perkins29:00

        ... werewolves, laser tags.

    12. CSCodie Sanchez29:01

        Like, a whole game-

    13. BPBill Perkins29:01

        Yeah

    14. CSCodie Sanchez29:01

        ... of laser tag orchestrated on this, like, gi- I... So I think, like, it's just a beautiful thing to see because you bring everybody along. I have been to p- I have been to a multi-hundred people parties at your house. You're out of town.

    15. BPBill Perkins29:14

        Yeah.

    16. CSCodie Sanchez29:14

        Which is weird.

    17. BPBill Perkins29:15

        [laughs]

    18. CSCodie Sanchez29:15

        Have you guys ever let somebody else just throw, like, giant parties at your house when you're not there?

    19. BPBill Perkins29:18

        Our, our friend had a saying, and I, I agree with it, "You buy stuff to give it away."

    20. CSCodie Sanchez29:22

        Mm.

    21. BPBill Perkins29:22

        And, you know, there are people who go to the movies alone, um, and they're either movie critics or psychos.

    22. CSCodie Sanchez29:27

        [laughs]

    23. BPBill Perkins29:27

        No, I'm just kidding. Some people do go to the movie theater alone. But, like, we wanna enjoy the ride with our friends. I think, like, you know, it's always like, "Did you see that?" Y- you know, we're, there's social media of everybody talking about what we saw, what we did, et cetera. And so, um, you know, m- I have a wake surfing boat, and, um, the reason why I love wake surfing so much is 70% of it is there's a bunch of people on the boat. Everybody's rooting for you to get up.

    24. CSCodie Sanchez29:51

        Yeah.

    25. BPBill Perkins29:51

        They're all rooting for you to do the new trick. You're having a great time. You're sharing these memories, and you're creating memory dividends that you'll be able to enjoy for the rest of

12. 29:59 – 31:11

    The Role of Wealth in Enjoying Life

    1. BPBill Perkins29:59

       your life. And so, um, y- you know, the things I have are, you know, f- for me and my friends and new people to enjoy, you know, in, uh, in this ride. And so the ride for me to the grave, 'cause we're all... You know, the destination for everybody's the same. It's a grave. So I'm trying to enjoy the ride, and I wanna enjoy the ride with the yous of the world. Right? That's what makes life worth living for me, so that's what the toys are for. It's not for me to just sit there with 50 laser tag guns shooting in the air.

    2. SPSpeaker30:26

       [laughs]

    3. CSCodie Sanchez30:26

       [laughs]

    4. BPBill Perkins30:27

       [laughs] You know?

    5. CSCodie Sanchez30:28

       That would not be as fun.

    6. BPBill Perkins30:29

       It... [laughs] No, not at all. But even going to the movies alone, I mean, sometimes you want to be alone, but, like, sitting there, you're just like, [gasps] you want to turn to somebody, right?

    7. CSCodie Sanchez30:37

       Mm-hmm.

    8. BPBill Perkins30:37

       Like, even watching at home, you're like, "Oh, man, I-

    9. CSCodie Sanchez30:39

       [laughs]

    10. BPBill Perkins30:39

        ... they gotta see this movie," right? So.

    11. CSCodie Sanchez30:41

        It's true. And the other thing I hope you guys noticed, too, that I love to bring, like, my friends here and show you guys firsthand, 'cause I wish I was in rooms like this when I was younger.

    12. BPBill Perkins30:49

        Right.

    13. CSCodie Sanchez30:49

        Like, I didn't have access to fancy rooms at all. You know, it was... You know, my- my dad was an entrepreneur, and we had other entrepreneur fri- friends, but we were kinda, like, barely making it, you know? Like, we, we... This didn't really exist, this sort of abundance. But isn't it weird how the news tells you that people with wealth are bad, people who are rich don't give, and then you meet some of these fuckers, you're like, "This guy, he invited

13. 31:11 – 32:10

    Evolving Philosophies on Wealth and Fulfillment

    1. CSCodie Sanchez31:11

       me over to laser tag six times."

    2. BPBill Perkins31:12

       Yeah.

    3. CSCodie Sanchez31:12

       "I just met him."

    4. BPBill Perkins31:13

       Werewolves, laser tags, whatever, man.

    5. CSCodie Sanchez31:14

       Yeah.

    6. BPBill Perkins31:14

       Let's have some fun. Let's enjoy the ride.

    7. CSCodie Sanchez31:15

       [laughs] So I wanna open it up now for questions. And, um, as we're thinking about it, you know, money, investing, risk, raising capital, anywhere you wanna go, I wanna open it up, and let's try to get a few questions from people we haven't before. Okay.

    8. SPSpeaker31:31

       Right. Yep, absolutely. Here we go.

    9. SPSpeaker31:34

       Let's go Hawks.

    10. BPBill Perkins31:35

        Yeah. [laughs]

    11. CSCodie Sanchez31:36

        [laughs]

    12. SPSpeaker31:36

        Um, it's been four years since, uh, Die With Zero. You've had countless conversations with smart people like Codie about your book. How has your philosophy changed and evolved, uh, since the initial publication?

    13. BPBill Perkins31:49

        I, I think I've solidified it and, you know, gotten more into... So the book is more at the, uh, 10,000-foot level-

    14. CSCodie Sanchez31:57

        Mm-hmm

    15. BPBill Perkins31:58

        ... the, the theory and the mental models, and now I've got more into, like, the application layer on, like, how I can implement that, how I can optimize, how can I think about fulfillment, you know? Um, and then my

14. 32:10 – 34:02

    The Power of Subtraction in Life

    1. BPBill Perkins32:10

       wife and I, you know, we use a lot of the exercises to, like, resolve what we should be doing, and how... what, what is the best a- course of action for to take? But nothing, nothing's really changed, um, in terms of, uh, um, the philosophy or what is correct. I think it's more correct than ever.

    2. CSCodie Sanchez32:28

       Wow, love that. Next question.

    3. SPSpeaker32:30

       Another question right over here.

    4. SPSpeaker32:34

       Hi, my name's Donald. I'm from Austin. Um, my question was, like, I hear a lot about people saying how, like, they do this, they, um, they, they wanna add more to their life, but what could you talk to about, like, what you don't do? Either in, like, how you think mindset-wise or habits-wise, like, what do you subtract or not do in how you live your life?

    5. BPBill Perkins32:57

       Okay. I think, uh, the... You know, one of my biggest, uh, flaws coming out of Jersey City was impulse control. Um, and [laughs] God... And so-

    6. CSCodie Sanchez33:07

       [laughs]

    7. BPBill Perkins33:08

       ... o- o- uh, you know, one of the things... And not necessarily with trading, because I'm very stoic about, like, losing money, whatever. But in, just in terms of interpersonal relationships-

    8. CSCodie Sanchez33:16

       Mm

    9. BPBill Perkins33:16

       ... kind of having a, a equanimity and, and a stoic belief. Like, hey, you know, this person's annoying or they're frustrating me, I need to dial it... I, I can't control or change them. I can change how I can react, right? So when somebody does anything to you or, or around you, there are about 1,000 ways you can react, right? And I had to look at myself and be like, "Why am I reacting this way?" Right? And so that is one of the things I've been learning not to do, is have this-

    10. CSCodie Sanchez33:47

        Mm

    11. BPBill Perkins33:47

        ... kind of, like, histrionic responses to things that, uh, uh, you know, annoy me, right, in interpersonal relationships. So that's one of the things I'm trying not to do.

    12. CSCodie Sanchez33:58

        That's really good. Donald's a stud, too, works at Google, and Billy

15. 34:02 – 36:10

    Finding and Managing Operators

    1. CSCodie Sanchez34:02

       is about to do his first transaction, a multi-million dollar deal. Um-

    2. BPBill Perkins34:06

       Congratulations

    3. CSCodie Sanchez34:06

       ... yeah, so two smart, smart gents.

    4. SPSpeaker34:09

       Uh, next question.

    5. SPSpeaker34:10

       Hi, I'm Andrea, based in Austin as well. So I have kind of a two-part question for you here. Um, how do you find a good operator to invest in for a specific venture? And the second part to that, how do you manage or insist on the highest standards, um, when there's even potentially a disconnect in expectations that were set once you're executing? Uh, would love to hear your thoughts on that.

    6. BPBill Perkins34:33

       I, I mean, y- you... I always say, um, it's always an HR problem. It just always is. Like, we'll have a great idea or something we wanna do, and it's like, okay, but who's gonna do it? Who's really gonna be the operator, et cetera? So it, it's a, it's a hunt. Um, sometimes, um, you're stealing them and convincing them that they can take the risk, right? They just need a little nudge. Uh, sometimes they're walking in your yard [laughs] you know, and, and you're talking to you and asking you for advice. And you're like, "Hey, I, I know, uh, some people that would like to start this business. How about doing it yourself?" And so, um, it's, w- when you recognize it, you go for it, and you present them with the opportunity. And so it's really just trying to get aligned with their visions and their dreams. Is this something that they really wanted that they just didn't have the opportunity, they didn't know how to search for it, they're not really looking for it? And sometimes it's just outright theft. [laughs]

    7. CSCodie Sanchez35:30

       [laughs]

    8. BPBill Perkins35:31

       You know? Like pulling s- convincing somebody to leave New York, don't work for another bank, and come work for you. Like, "I got you, and it's gonna be more fun, and you're gonna have more freedom, and you're gonna be get to be more of you."

    9. CSCodie Sanchez35:44

       Yeah, you definitely saw that.

    10. BPBill Perkins35:45

        It's an enrollment... Life is an enrollment game, right? And so-

    11. CSCodie Sanchez35:47

        Hm

    12. BPBill Perkins35:47

        ... they're either enrolling you in their vision or you're enrolling them in yours.

    13. CSCodie Sanchez35:53

        Mm-hmm.

    14. BPBill Perkins35:53

        And so how do we get... You see these people. You'll find them. They're out there. You search. You can, you can find many different ways to find them and search for them, but after that, you have to enroll them in your vision.

    15. CSCodie Sanchez36:04

        Mm-hmm.

    16. BPBill Perkins36:05

        And so you have to be good at enrolling.

    17. CSCodie Sanchez36:08

        How often pe- do people say no to you?

16. 36:10 – 38:20

    Balancing Ego and Delegation

    1. BPBill Perkins36:10

       They said a lot.

    2. CSCodie Sanchez36:11

       Besides Laura.

    3. BPBill Perkins36:11

       They said-

    4. CSCodie Sanchez36:11

       She's like, "Never."

    5. BPBill Perkins36:12

       They said a lot.

    6. CSCodie Sanchez36:13

       Yeah.

    7. BPBill Perkins36:13

       As long as it's followed by a yes eventually. [laughs]

    8. CSCodie Sanchez36:16

       [laughs]

    9. BPBill Perkins36:17

       You know?

    10. CSCodie Sanchez36:17

        A lot.

    11. BPBill Perkins36:18

        You know, it's, it, it's... If, if you, if you're aligned, if you're being, you know, a good guy, you're basically enrolling them in their own vision. You're showing them that how your vision is their vision, how it's similar. So how are they gonna say no to themselves?

    12. CSCodie Sanchez36:32

        Mm. That's good.

    13. SPSpeaker36:34

        Next question, straight in the back.

    14. SPSpeaker36:37

        Good morning. Thanks for your time today. Ben Larabee-

    15. BPBill Perkins36:40

        Of course

    16. SPSpeaker36:40

        ... from, uh, Colorado. And my question to you is around, um, I find myself wanting to be in the trenches with people and not wanting to... I, I wanna kill my ego, right? So how do you balance offloading these tasks that are below your pay rate and killing your ego at the same time, if that makes sense?

    17. BPBill Perkins37:01

        Um, I mean, the offloading the tasks is, is just, it, part of it's just simple math, um, and reminding yourself, um, that you have, you have other things to do, and you're denying yourself your dreams, and just constantly reminding yourself. Like, it's interesting. It's, it's great, you know, to let 'em go and fail, and letting, um... It's great to pop in and tinker, et cetera, and you feel useful and you're learning. But realize that there's the other you, let's call it you prime, that's not doing the big thing that it's meant to do, and you're actually destroying value-

    18. CSCodie Sanchez37:37

        Mm

    19. BPBill Perkins37:38

        ... every time you do that. And then also accepting that people are gonna fail. You gotta let 'em fail. They gotta learn. How are they gonna learn if you're always tying their shoes for 'em?

    20. CSCodie Sanchez37:44

        Mm.

    21. BPBill Perkins37:45

        If you're telling somebody what to do instead of what you want, then you don't have an employee. Like, you have a child.

    22. CSCodie Sanchez37:51

        [laughs]

    23. SPSpeaker37:52

        [laughs]

    24. BPBill Perkins37:53

        Right? Like, it, it, it's like-

    25. CSCodie Sanchez37:55

        [laughs] The clap-

    26. BPBill Perkins37:56

        Your employee-

    27. CSCodie Sanchez37:56

        ... that was worth a clap. [laughs]

    28. BPBill Perkins37:58

        [laughs] Like, you gotta, you gotta step back, and then, and then let them fail. It's gonna be okay, and they'll learn, and they'll grow. Like, you can't keep tying people's shoes for them. And so I, I remind myself of that. It's gonna be okay. They're gonna grow. Um, and that I am destined for other things, right?

    29. CSCodie Sanchez38:17

        Mm.

    30. BPBill Perkins38:17

        My time needs to be spent on X, Y, and Z,

17. 38:20 – 41:12

    Taking Risks and Going Big

    1. BPBill Perkins38:20

       or this thing, or my dream is gonna die. 'Cause nobody's coming to save you, right? Nobody's gonna come and be like, "This is your dream." A genie's gonna come. You have to execute on that dream. And if you're, you know, down there and like, "Hey, you should fold the napkins this way," I'm just using a restaurant example, that dream's gonna die.

    2. CSCodie Sanchez38:36

       Mm. That's really good.

    3. SPSpeaker38:39

       We have a question over here on your left.

    4. SPSpeaker38:44

       Hi. Uh, Sage from Hawaii. Um, so recently we've been a little bit more open about where we've, uh, Travis and I have been trying to go after a two, $200 million manufacturing business, and a lot of people have come to us and said, "Well, why are you going that big? Why are you doing that?" And, um, at first I was kinda like, "Well, why not?" But I got to the point where I started asking myself that question more seriously, and I think my answer is, I won't know what I'm capable of unless I strive for the impossible. And I wanna know, since you've, you encourage, Codie especially, to go for bigger things, what is, what was that moment in your life where you decided to go much bigger versus staying within the, the box that you either started your own mindset in or that other people told you to stay in?

    5. BPBill Perkins39:29

       Um, I, I, you know, one of, one of my advantages, I say willing to take risks, but I'm also, like, fantastically delusional that I can do it.

    6. SPSpeaker39:40

       [laughs]

    7. BPBill Perkins39:40

       You know? And, you know, they had on the screen, they said, "Legendary trader," whatever, and they said, "Well, what does legend mean to you?" And I said, "Listen, there's a little bit of survivorship bias in that quote. It's not that I'm the salmon that made it upstream. It's I'm the salmon that tried." Right? That's the legend, and there's lots of legends out there that have tried things and failed, et cetera. I just happened to be one that got there. I remember when my mom, I told my mom I was developing this solar project out in, uh, Nevada to provide power to California. It was like, um, it was like a four- I think it was like $300 million, $400 million project, uh, I was developing. I wasn't gonna be the one to put the $400 million, but I was gonna develop it to the point and then pitch it out. I sold it to Capital Dynamics for like $180 million, right, and spent like 20, 30, $40 million, $30 million of m- mine and my friends' money developing it. But when I told my mom, she laughed. She laughed. She was like, not laughing at me, she's like [scoffs] like, "That was fantastical. Like, how could you possibly be doing something like this?" Um, and it's because of where she came from. Like, my mom worked, like, for a school system, a government, and I was just like, "She's trapped in this bubble." But I saw a path to execution. And so if there was a path to execution-

    8. CSCodie Sanchez40:54

       Mm

    9. BPBill Perkins40:54

       ... well, I'm a risk-taker, and I know a lot of crazy other nutty risk-takers, you know. They won't even look at it unless they can lose all their money.

    10. CSCodie Sanchez41:00

        [laughs]

    11. SPSpeaker41:01

        [laughs]

    12. BPBill Perkins41:02

        They, they won't. [laughs] Because they're like, uh, it, it... You know, my friends are like, "If, if it can't hurt, it can't help." That's the way they're thinking about it, right?

18. 41:12 – 44:01

    Memorable Investments and Experiences

    1. BPBill Perkins41:13

       And so, like, you know, they believe in the returns are commensurate with the risk. And so, you know, we did all the work. We, uh, you know, interest rates were going our way. Power, solar panel prices were going our way. We rode the curve and we sold it out and we made the money. I don't know what your execution plan is, et cetera, but if it can be done, you can do it.

    2. CSCodie Sanchez41:33

       Mm.

    3. SPSpeaker41:36

       And I think we have one last question right here.

    4. CSCodie Sanchez41:39

       I think we might have time for two.

    5. SPSpeaker41:40

       Two more you want?

    6. CSCodie Sanchez41:41

       Yeah. Uh-huh.

    7. SPSpeaker41:41

       Okay. Two more.

    8. CSCodie Sanchez41:44

       Yes.

    9. SPSpeaker41:44

       Uh, hi, Bill. Wendy Papazian, Austin, Texas. Big fan of your book. Uh, my husband and I do a goal-setting retreat every year, so I love that you do that. And we actually just utilize some of your life experience buckets, um, like put all of our...

    10. BPBill Perkins41:57

        Yeah

    11. SPSpeaker41:57

        We've, we've always had a, like a big list, but then we put it in our time bucket, so that was really cool. And, uh, I just have a q- fun question for you, which is, uh, tell me about the most memorable experience that you've ever invested in.

    12. BPBill Perkins42:11

        Oh, wow. Um, wow. 'Cause I... You know, Lara and I are like, "I can't even remember these past two weeks." Like, we have so many different things.

    13. CSCodie Sanchez42:20

        [laughs]

    14. BPBill Perkins42:20

        So I think- I, I think it was the one I wrote about with my mom and my family in St. Barts for my birthday party, but recently it was our engagement trip during COVID. Um, you know, when the initial math came out, I was like, "Oh man, this is a 1 in 20 chance I'm gonna die in the next three years," right? Just from the initial math. So I was like, "I got too much money."

    15. CSCodie Sanchez42:41

        [laughs]

    16. BPBill Perkins42:41

        "I need to start spending it right away," right?

    17. CSCodie Sanchez42:42

        [laughs]

    18. SPSpeaker42:43

        [laughs]

    19. BPBill Perkins42:43

        "I need to light some money on fire," right? [laughs]

    20. CSCodie Sanchez42:45

        [laughs]

    21. SPSpeaker42:45

        [laughs]

    22. BPBill Perkins42:45

        And so, so we rented a yacht. And I, I... And we were like, "We gotta get out of here." And so we, Croatia was taking people where everything else was shut down, so we went to Croatia, rent a yacht. I woulda never went to Croatia. I discovered all that with my friends, had a great time, begged our way into Greece, got into Greece. Uh, and at that, before going into Greece, I got engaged, right? We had an amazing party, the biggest fireworks show. They wrote about it in the news, because I was like, "I gotta light some money on fire. I'm dead in three years." [laughs]

    23. CSCodie Sanchez43:16

        [laughs]

    24. SPSpeaker43:16

        [laughs]

    25. BPBill Perkins43:17

        You know, went to Italy, et cetera. So it was this magical trip where I got engaged, hung out with my friends. My family came on, partied, yeah, they, they on and off. It was just like, "All right. It's the end of the world as we know it" type of trip. And we really, really ha- you know, we talk about that all the time. Um, and so it was a lot of dividends. But some of it's just, you know, laser tag and a Werewolves game, you know?

    26. CSCodie Sanchez43:39

        [laughs]

    27. BPBill Perkins43:39

        I was playing Werewolves on a birthday party, and I played the greatest game of Werewolves that had ever been played.

    28. CSCodie Sanchez43:44

        [laughs]

    29. BPBill Perkins43:44

        And I talk shit about that all the time. [laughs]

    30. CSCodie Sanchez43:47

        [laughs]
19. 44:01 – 46:41

    Identifying Key Ingredients in People

    1. SPSpeaker44:01

       You talked about ingredients. What are the ingredients that you saw in Codie and in other people whose, who you wanna help enroll into their own vision?

    2. CSCodie Sanchez44:10

       Oh, Lord.

    3. BPBill Perkins44:11

       Um, well, I mean, she's intelligent, smart, driven, and has integrity, right? And it's like, what, what else, what else, what else do you want, right? Like, she was just kinda like thinking she has this idea, and I was just like, "Let's just... Can I have the super-sized version of that? Can I, you know, can I, can I, can I put risk dollars in you?" Like, at the end of the day, you're betting on, you know, she's like, "I bet on her business." And I'm like, "I'm betting on you." If you say, "Hey, I'm gonna go in the garbage business and compete with Waste Management," or, "I'm gonna do a better pizza version," or whatever, I would've been like, "Okay, here we go. Here you go," right? Like, I'm betting on you. Like I said, like, the, for every field there is a millionaire. Like, I'm like, "Wow, I didn't even know you could make money at that. I didn't even know that existed," right?

    4. CSCodie Sanchez44:55

       [laughs]

    5. BPBill Perkins44:55

       Like I, I, when I meet people. And so, um, when you, when you, when you're finding people like that, you either, you either wanna hire them or invest in them.

    6. CSCodie Sanchez45:06

       Yeah.

    7. BPBill Perkins45:07

       Right?

    8. CSCodie Sanchez45:08

       And you collect people, like I've noticed.

    9. BPBill Perkins45:11

       Yeah, I want-

    10. CSCodie Sanchez45:11

        He's a people collector.

    11. BPBill Perkins45:12

        I, I wanna learn. I'm curious. Like, I, I had a... I went to a SpaceX launch, and I was hanging out there and I was like, "Oh, uh," you know. My wife was like, "We gotta go." I was like, "I don't ever wanna leave."

    12. CSCodie Sanchez45:22

        [laughs]

    13. SPSpeaker45:22

        [laughs]

    14. BPBill Perkins45:23

        "I'm learning so much from these guys." And I had a man crush on Lars. This is the guy who like designed the rockets to land backwards. He's the engineer that does it.

    15. CSCodie Sanchez45:30

        Wow.

    16. BPBill Perkins45:30

        It's like one guy, and I was talking to him about the belly flop maneuver.

    17. CSCodie Sanchez45:33

        [laughs]

    18. BPBill Perkins45:33

        And I was like, "I never wanna leave. I never, never, never wanna leave."

    19. CSCodie Sanchez45:37

        [laughs]

    20. BPBill Perkins45:37

        And so, but there's other people that are like, like yourself, in marketing, and, and are charismatic, and intelligent, and understand business, and cash flow, and whatever, and I can talk to you all the time. And then there's, there's molecular biologists when you invest in them. And so one of the, the, the fun thing about investing is how much you learn.

    21. CSCodie Sanchez45:54

        Mm-hmm.

    22. BPBill Perkins45:55

        How much you learn, you know? Um, and, and there's just brilliant, wonderful people out there chasing their dreams, and it's just like the greatest... Like, I don't watch TV. I, I'm like, I can, I, you know. I'd rather the human drama every day.

    23. CSCodie Sanchez46:09

        [laughs]

    24. SPSpeaker46:09

        [laughs]

    25. BPBill Perkins46:11

        Right?

    26. CSCodie Sanchez46:11

        Yeah.

    27. BPBill Perkins46:11

        There's great stories. There's fights and blah, blah, blah. There's divorces. There's everything, right? Like I, you don't need to watch TV. You just interact with these people, you can learn. And it's just amazing how much you learn just interacting with these people, uh, particularly in investing.

    28. CSCodie Sanchez46:24

        Can we give Bill Perkins a round of applause? [applause] Thank you so much for being here, Bill.

    29. BPBill Perkins46:27

        Thank you, guys.

    30. CSCodie Sanchez46:28

        Thank you, guys. I'll follow you this way. [upbeat music]

Episode duration: 46:41