Meet The New Mark Zuckerberg | The Circuit

1. 0:00 – 0:06

   Intro

   1. ECEmily Chang0:00

      [birds chirping] [upbeat music]

2. 0:06 – 0:45

   The “Zuckissance” and leaning into memes

   1. ECEmily Chang0:06

      Have you heard the term Zuckissance?

   2. MZMark Zuckerberg0:08

      Uh...

   3. ECEmily Chang0:12

      Zuckissance.

   4. MZMark Zuckerberg0:13

      No, what is that?

   5. ECEmily Chang0:13

      You haven't heard that?

   6. MZMark Zuckerberg0:14

      No, no. [laughs]

   7. ECEmily Chang0:14

      It's Zuck's renaissance.

   8. MZMark Zuckerberg0:16

      Huh. What is this? [upbeat music]

   9. ECEmily Chang0:21

      You know, you've got this new look, the chains, the shearling jacket.

   10. MZMark Zuckerberg0:24

       [laughs]

   11. ECEmily Chang0:24

       Everything you do seems to become a meme.

   12. MZMark Zuckerberg0:26

       At least make them good memes.

   13. ECEmily Chang0:28

       Right.

   14. MZMark Zuckerberg0:28

       Yeah. [laughs]

   15. ECEmily Chang0:28

       Well, it seems like you're leaning in on the joke more.

   16. MZMark Zuckerberg0:30

       And I think as I've gotten older, I'm just like, all right, whatever. It doesn't matter, right? It's like just kinda try to be myself as much as I feel comfortable being.

   17. SPSpeaker0:38

       Woo! [upbeat music]

3. 0:45 – 2:07

   Why Meta is betting on open-source AI

   1. ECEmily Chang0:45

      Mark Zuckerberg, the face of Facebook, has been under the bright lights for 20 years, on the offensive, buying Instagram, WhatsApp, and Oculus, and the defensive, battling a never-ending cascade of criticisms about the social, political, and business impacts of his expanding empire. Lately, though, Zuckerberg appears to be reinventing himself and his company. Meta's latest push is a major play to open-source AI, in contrast to close-source competitors, like Open AI and Google. Zuckerberg predicts his company's newest AI models will have a profound impact on the progress of technology, business, and maybe the world. I've come to Meta HQ to get a glimpse of the real Zuck and the AI future he believes is the path forward. So I found an article in the Harvard Crimson going back to 2003-

   2. MZMark Zuckerberg1:35

      Okay

   3. ECEmily Chang1:35

      ... where you were talking about open source.

   4. MZMark Zuckerberg1:37

      Okay.

   5. ECEmily Chang1:37

      Like, over 20 years ago.

   6. MZMark Zuckerberg1:39

      Really?

   7. ECEmily Chang1:40

      So you've been thinking about this a really long time.

   8. MZMark Zuckerberg1:42

      Um, well, yeah, it's a, it's a big part of the tech industry. I don't, I mean, you wouldn't have been able to build the early version of Facebook without that. Um, I was a student. I didn't have access to a lot of capital. There's the whole kinda hacker mentality of you, like, and they just take the code, use it for the thing that you need to. It's more cost efficient and, I mean, that's how you can start something like this in a dorm room.

4. 2:07 – 2:39

   Open source as Meta’s strategy: from Open Compute to AI standards

   1. ECEmily Chang2:07

      Some people see you as an unlikely champion [laughs] of open source today. You're laughing.

   2. MZMark Zuckerberg2:12

      Well, I don't know why. I, I mean, I actually think, well, I, I, I get it, but yeah.

   3. ECEmily Chang2:17

      The, you understand the word unlikely?

   4. MZMark Zuckerberg2:18

      Yeah. We've actually at, at Meta have been pretty big proponents of open source for a while, and it's been a really good formula for us. So dating back to how we design servers, how we de- design our data centers, we have this whole Open Compute Project that kinda standardized a lot of the infrastructure for the industry. And that's gonna happen with AI too.

5. 2:39 – 3:47

   Regaining platform control: AI and AR/VR as “next platforms”

   1. ECEmily Chang2:39

      You're really putting a stake in the ground by open sourcing your AI in this attempt to build the AI rails-

   2. MZMark Zuckerberg2:46

      Mm-hmm

   3. ECEmily Chang2:46

      ... for the future.

   4. MZMark Zuckerberg2:47

      Mm-hmm.

   5. ECEmily Chang2:48

      How much of this is a strategic way to control or own the next technology wave?

   6. MZMark Zuckerberg2:54

      A lot of how we've grown up over the last 10 or 15 years was building our apps through phone platforms that our competitors controlled. So it's, it's somewhat soul-crushing to, like, go build something that you think is gonna be good and then just get told by Apple that you can't ship it because they wanna, like, put us in a box because they view us as competitive. You know, we're a big enough company now that one of the things that I've resolved is that for the next generation of technology, I want us to build and have more control over the next set of platforms that we're gonna build. So I think AI is a critical one, and I think, um, augmented and virtual reality is another critical one. It's kind of the way that we can control our own destiny on this and make sure that we have access to leading AI is by building it and having it become an industry standard. But it actually gets stronger by being able to share it and, and have the ecosystem around it.

6. 3:47 – 4:36

   Meta AI product pitch: real-time image generation and usage goals

   1. ECEmily Chang3:47

      You're continuing to improve Meta AI across all of your products, but also as a standalone chatbot. Why should we use Meta over ChatGPT?

   2. MZMark Zuckerberg3:55

      Um, well, there's a bunch of things where, where it's better. You know, one of the things that we're rolling out soon is the ab- the, the ability to just, like, imagine stuff. You're, you're typing something in real time. I do this with my daughters all the time, and as you're, um, kinda typing and, and entering the, the query, it's just generating the images a- as you enter the keystrokes. It's just really cool. My goal for the Meta AI launch, which, I mean, it's only really, you know, a few months old at this point, was to, by the end of the year, um, have Meta AI be the most used AI assistant in the world. And I, I think we're basically on track for that. I mean, there's hundreds of millions of people who are using it.

   3. ECEmily Chang4:33

      By the end of this year?

   4. MZMark Zuckerberg4:34

      Yeah, and I think we're gonna be there before the end of the year.

7. 4:36 – 6:21

   Llama 3.1 and the “many models” worldview

   1. ECEmily Chang4:36

      So you're releasing Llama 3.1-

   2. MZMark Zuckerberg4:37

      Mm-hmm

   3. ECEmily Chang4:38

      ... this family of models-

   4. MZMark Zuckerberg4:39

      Yeah

   5. ECEmily Chang4:39

      ... big and small, including the biggest open source model ever-

   6. MZMark Zuckerberg4:42

      Mm-hmm

   7. ECEmily Chang4:42

      ... 405 billion parameters.

   8. MZMark Zuckerberg4:44

      Yeah, yeah.

   9. ECEmily Chang4:44

      What does that jump unlock?

   10. MZMark Zuckerberg4:46

       I actually think the main thing that people are gonna do, especially because it's open source, is use it as a teacher to train smaller models that they use in different applications. If you just think about, like, all the startups out there or all the enterprises or even governments that are trying to do different things, they probably all need to, at some level, build custom models for what they're doing, and it's really hard to do that with closed systems out there, whether that's Open AI or Gemini, Google's thing, or whatever. And, and this is, like, gets to a pretty core part of our philosophy is we don't believe there's gonna be, like, one AI to rule them all. Our vision is that there's going to be millions or, or just billions of different models out there.

   11. ECEmily Chang5:26

       So not one god, but many? Is that the way to think about it?

   12. MZMark Zuckerberg5:29

       Well, I don't think they're gonna be gods.

   13. ECEmily Chang5:30

       [laughs]

   14. MZMark Zuckerberg5:30

       But, um, I do think that to some degree if you, if you're, like, an organization and you think you're gonna create, like, this one super intelligence, it does have this feel to me of, like, people trying to create a god, and that's just... I, I f- I find that both the wrong way to look at it, but just also very unappealing. You know, there's almost 200 million creators on our platforms. They all are trying to build their community. People wanna interact with them. There aren't enough hours in the day. Like, I wanna make it so that every single one of them can easily train, like, an AI version Of themselves, that they can like, they can make it what they want. So it's almost like a, like a kind of artistic artifact that they're putting out there for their community that allows their community to interact with them, but also gives them control over how that interaction happens. Um, and I think that that's gonna be great, and there's gonna be millions, there are, you know, eventually hundreds of millions of those.

8. 6:21 – 7:54

   AI personas, creators, and role-playing tough conversations

   1. ECEmily Chang6:21

      So let's get into the broader strategy-

   2. MZMark Zuckerberg6:23

      Yeah

   3. ECEmily Chang6:23

      ... and how this is all going to work. Like, will we have AI-generated influencers with AI-generated captions and avatars talking to avatars? Like-

   4. MZMark Zuckerberg6:32

      Yeah, I think we'll have all of it.

   5. ECEmily Chang6:33

      Do you wanna create the first AI-generated social network?

   6. MZMark Zuckerberg6:37

      Well, I think that that will be part of this. But, you know, actually one of the most interesting use cases that people have for meta AI today, it's like in the top four use cases, is role-playing difficult social interactions that they're gonna have. So whether it's in a professional con- context like, okay, you wanna ask your manager for a raise, or like, "I'm having this hard conversation with my girlfriend or my friend," like-

   7. ECEmily Chang6:58

      I could have role-played this conversation-

   8. MZMark Zuckerberg7:00

      I mean-

   9. ECEmily Chang7:00

      ... with you today. [laughs]

   10. MZMark Zuckerberg7:01

       Well, hopefully it's not, I mean, like-

   11. ECEmily Chang7:02

       Now it's mine

   12. MZMark Zuckerberg7:02

       ... hopefully it's not stressful for you, but it's-

   13. ECEmily Chang7:04

       It's super fun. [laughs]

   14. MZMark Zuckerberg7:05

       Um, but like it's a clear social tool where there's, there's no judgment, right? The AI isn't sitting there. There's no, like, social repercussion for what you ask it.

   15. ECEmily Chang7:13

       But what evidence do you have that people wanna live in this virtual world and, and socialize with avatars-

   16. MZMark Zuckerberg7:19

       Well-

   17. ECEmily Chang7:19

       ... or that it's actually good for us?

   18. MZMark Zuckerberg7:21

       Well, I, I think that people wanna connect with each other, right? I, I, I actually think, like, all the other stuff is generally noise. But, um, all the technology allows you to do that in a better and better way, right? When I got started with Facebook, it was mostly text, and then this whole- there's been this whole kind of, like, technological evolution where we got smartphones that we could primarily be, um, taking photos, and then the mobile networks got good, so then you could be kind of sharing video. And video's a lot richer, and consuming video is a better experience. So I just don't think that's the end of the line. I think it gets more immersive.

9. 7:54 – 8:50

   Metaverse progress check: why Meta renamed and what’s faster/slower

   1. ECEmily Chang7:54

      You renamed your company Meta.

   2. MZMark Zuckerberg7:55

      Yeah.

   3. ECEmily Chang7:55

      You're still pouring billions of dollars-

   4. MZMark Zuckerberg7:57

      Uh-huh

   5. ECEmily Chang7:57

      ... into the metaverse. Uh, are we as far along as you thought we'd be, you know, a few years down the line? Are there any lessons in the-

   6. MZMark Zuckerberg8:05

      Yeah

   7. ECEmily Chang8:05

      ... urgency of the pivot?

   8. MZMark Zuckerberg8:07

      Well, a lot of the reason why I did that is because I, I think we were getting kinda pigeonholed as just this, like, social media app company. I mean, the, the metaverse thing was always gonna be a very long-term thing. I think some things have gone, um, better than I thought. Some have gone, um, slower. Um, the glasses I think is probably the best example of something that is going better. They're stylish. They're good glasses. It's a great form factor for AI. We didn't know that AI was gonna be a thing when we started working on that project, or I mean, we, we thought it was gonna be a thing, like, 10 years from now. But if you'd asked me five years ago, I would've guessed that AR would come before AI, not the other direction. Um, so some of this is just about kind of setting yourselves up to ride the different waves when they come in.

10. 8:50 – 9:55

    Is AI investment a bubble? The timing vs. the stakes

    1. ECEmily Chang8:50

       Sequoia calls AI the $600 billion question. There's all this investment-

    2. MZMark Zuckerberg8:54

       Mm-hmm

    3. ECEmily Chang8:54

       ... in chips and the infrastructure and the data centers.

    4. MZMark Zuckerberg8:57

       Mm-hmm.

    5. ECEmily Chang8:57

       But when does it start paying off? Like, is it a bubble? And-

    6. MZMark Zuckerberg9:02

       Well-

    7. ECEmily Chang9:02

       ... i- if not, like, when do you start seeing the money?

    8. MZMark Zuckerberg9:05

       Um, I, I think bubbles are, are interesting because a lot of the bubbles ended up being things that were very valuable over time, and it's just more of a question of timing like you're asking, right? Even the .com bubble, you know, it's like there's all this fiber laid, and it ended up being super valuable, but it just wasn't as valuable as quickly as people thought. So, um, is that gonna happen here? I don't know. I mean, it's, it's hard to predict what's gonna happen in the next few years. I think AI is gonna be very fundamental. I think that there's a meaningful chance that a lot of the companies are overbuilding now, and that you look back and you're like, "Oh, we maybe all spent some number of billions of dollars more than we had to." But on the flip side, I actually think all the companies that are investing are making a rational decision because the downside of being behind is that you're out of position for, like, the most important technology for the next 10 to 15 years.

11. 9:55 – 11:02

    AGI and what “intelligence” means: no single definition

    1. ECEmily Chang9:55

       You said your goal is getting to artificial general intelligence-

    2. MZMark Zuckerberg9:58

       Yeah

    3. ECEmily Chang9:58

       ... or AGI.

    4. MZMark Zuckerberg9:59

       Yeah.

    5. ECEmily Chang9:59

       How do you define AGI, a- and do you get-

    6. MZMark Zuckerberg10:02

       Yeah

    7. ECEmily Chang10:02

       ... there first?

    8. MZMark Zuckerberg10:03

       No, it's, it's... Well, it's a good question. Um, we're basically already starting to work on, on Llama 4, and our goal is to completely close the gap with all the others on that. So, um, so I don't know. I mean, do we, do we get to AGI first? I mean, I think that there'll probably be some breakthroughs between now and then. It's hard to just predict in a straight line. Th- then you get to the more complicated question, which is like, what is it? Um, I don't know that there's, like, one specific definition for this. It's, um... 'Cause I think intelligence is multi- it's multivariant, right? It's not like there's one number that is your intelligence. So there's probably a specific aspect of intelligence or modality which is, like, reading people's faces and emotions, and that's something that I care about, so I think we'll probably try to build that in at some point. You know, what we're trying to help enable the, the whole community to do is create all these different AIs for all these things that people wanna do, and I know that's, that's kind of how I think this ends up being a good thing for the world.

    9. ECEmily Chang10:57

       [gentle music]

12. 11:02 – 13:07

    Nature, parenting, and learning: values, creativity, and going deep

    1. ECEmily Chang11:02

       This place is so peaceful.

    2. MZMark Zuckerberg11:03

       Yeah. I mean, it's, um... We just love being out in nature.

    3. ECEmily Chang11:07

       Is this like your escape, your oasis from the real world, from your virtual world?

    4. MZMark Zuckerberg11:11

       [laughs] The real world.

    5. ECEmily Chang11:12

       And your virtual world.

    6. MZMark Zuckerberg11:14

       I, I don't know. I, I like being in Palo Alto and-

    7. ECEmily Chang11:17

       [laughs]

    8. MZMark Zuckerberg11:17

       ... and, and out there too. Um, but it's just kinda nice to spend time up here over the summer and, you know, get the kids out on the lake and teach them some different sports, and I think that that's all nice.

    9. ECEmily Chang11:29

       What should kids be studying these days?

    10. MZMark Zuckerberg11:32

        Um, I think the most important thing is just, like, learning how to think critically and learning values when you're young. You know, one of our daughters is super creative. I mean, she wrote this outline and, for a novel that she wanted to write, and now is, like, 40 pages in. And, you know, we sit, and, you know, when I'm hanging out with her, we'll use Meta AI to generate the images. Like, it's, it's about mermaid crystals, is her novel. [laughs] And it's, um-

    11. ECEmily Chang11:57

        I know a few kids-

    12. MZMark Zuckerberg11:57

        Yeah

    13. ECEmily Chang11:57

        ... who would like to read that.

    14. MZMark Zuckerberg11:58

        I mean, yeah, no, I, I think it's, um, you know, it's, it's probably gonna be a banger. I mean, this is somewhat of a hiring philosophy that I have, too. It's, you know, if people have shown that they can go deep and do one thing really well, then they've probably gained experience in, like, the art of learning something and, and taking it to an excellent level, which is generally pl- pretty applicable to other things.

    15. ECEmily Chang12:19

        You go all in on everything you do it seems like. How do you make time for it all? The s- the, the sports, the side quests, the super engaged CEO, to being a dad.

    16. MZMark Zuckerberg12:29

        I actually think it, having balance between the different things that you do helps make you do all the things better.

    17. ECEmily Chang12:35

        Yeah.

    18. MZMark Zuckerberg12:35

        I, I think I'm a pretty intense person.

    19. ECEmily Chang12:37

        [laughs]

    20. MZMark Zuckerberg12:37

        And, um-

    21. ECEmily Chang12:39

        Just kind of

    22. MZMark Zuckerberg12:39

        ... I try to, I try to have some mercy on the people I work with and not focus too much energy on any one project, you know, 'cause, you know, I wanna make sure that people have, have the, the flexibility and space to go do their thing. Um, so yeah, no, I think that that's part of, like, being a, you know, an interesting and well-rounded person and learning is, like, you, um, you wanna have different experiences. [clapping] Oh, welcome to Shanghai, Beijing. [cheering]

13. 13:07 – 14:34

    US–China AI competition and open innovation vs. lockdown

    1. ECEmily Chang13:07

       I know you've always been fascinated by China, and you learned to speak Mandarin. And what do you know about where China is on AI and AGI?

    2. MZMark Zuckerberg13:16

       Um, I don't personally know a ton. There, there's this question which is how should the US approach the kind of AI competition with China, and there's one strain of thought which is like, "Okay, well, we need to, like, lock it all down." Um, and I, I just happen to think that that's really wrong because the US thrives on, on just kind of open and, and decentralized innovation. I mean, that's the way our economy works. That's, like, how we build awesome stuff. But I think the leading companies should work with the US government and, um, make sure that, that our kind of national defense and things like that have sort of a perpetual first mover advantage on, on the leading technology in the world.

    3. ECEmily Chang13:57

       So we win the AI wars-

    4. MZMark Zuckerberg13:59

       I-

    5. ECEmily Chang13:59

       ... this way

    6. MZMark Zuckerberg14:00

       ... I, I think there, there's the question of what can you hope to achieve. If you're trying to say, "Okay, should the US try to be five or 10 years ahead of China?" I just don't know if that's, if that's a reasonable goal. Um, so I, I, I'm not sure if you can maintain that. But what I do think is a reasonable goal is maintaining a perpetual, you know, six month to, you know, eight month lead by making sure that the American companies and the American folks working on this continue producing the best AI systems. And I think if the US can maintain that advantage over time, that's a, that's just a very big advantage.

14. 14:34 – 19:33

    Trust, scrutiny, elections, and mental health: Meta’s role and responsibility

    1. ECEmily Chang14:34

       There are obviously a lot of players. What do you make of Sam Altman's leadership?

    2. MZMark Zuckerberg14:38

       He deserves a lot of credit, um, for, for how that organization has, has developed. Also, having gotten a lot of public scrutiny myself, I think it's like, look, when you're going through it for the first time, you don't handle it as, you know, as perfectly as you would like. But I think he's handling it very gracefully. I think he's doing better than, than I did. And it's, it's a somewhat ironic thing to have an organization that's named OpenAI, but is sort of the leader in building closed AI models. And it's not necessarily bad, but it's, it's, it's kind of a little funny.

    3. ECEmily Chang15:10

       Facebook and you have been blamed for a lot of things. Whether you agree or not, why should we trust you with AI?

    4. MZMark Zuckerberg15:16

       Well, [laughs] it's, it's a loaded question. Um, we have gotten blamed for a lot of things and, I mean, look, I, I take our role in all this stuff seriously, and I think we've tried to handle all this as well as possible. I'm not sure that it's all been fair, but, like, I, I'd like to think that we're an important and relevant company, so I think the scrutiny is generally healthy. One of the defining things around open source is that anyone can scrutinize the work, and because of that, I think it just puts a lot of pressure to make sure that the quality of the work that you're doing gets better really quickly.

    5. ECEmily Chang15:46

       I wanna talk about the 2024 presidential election.

    6. MZMark Zuckerberg15:49

       Okay. [laughs]

    7. ECEmily Chang15:50

       Um, Facebook has been a flashpoint in many elections-

    8. MZMark Zuckerberg15:53

       Mm-hmm

    9. ECEmily Chang15:53

       ... around the world, and you personally have been called out, most recently by former President Trump. This is a big election. What do you think is at stake?

    10. MZMark Zuckerberg16:05

        Well, I mean, look, it's, it's obviously a very important, and it'll be a historic election. The main thing that I hear from people is that they actually wanna see less political content on our services because they come to our services to connect with people. So, you know, that's what we're gonna do. Um, we're, we give people control o- over this, but we're generally trying to recommend less political content. Um, so I think you're gonna see our services play less of a role in this election than they have in the past. And I've done some stuff personally in the past. I'm not planning on doing that this time. Um, and that includes, you know, not endorsing [laughs] either of the candidates. Um, now look, I mean, there's obviously a lot of crazy stuff going on in the world. I mean, uh, seeing Donald Trump get, get up after getting shot in the face and pump his fist in the air with the American flag is one of the most badass things I've ever seen in my life. [laughs] But, um, but, but look, I mean, it's, um, you know, as... And I think, look, at, at some level as an American, it's, like, hard to not get kind of emotional about that spirit, um, and that fight, and I think that that's why a lot of people like the guy. Um, but I, I, I view our role here is to make it so that everyone can express their, their views on this stuff, and I think that that's probably the best role that we can play.

    11. ECEmily Chang17:25

        We're facing a crisis in mental health, especially-

    12. MZMark Zuckerberg17:28

        Yeah

    13. ECEmily Chang17:28

        ... among teenagers. The surgeon general is now calling for a warning label on social media, saying that it's partially to blame. With everything that you know now, does he have a point?

    14. MZMark Zuckerberg17:40

        There's clearly an issue with mental health in the country. Um, so I think that that's, like, a really important thing, and for kids and teens it's especially important, and I think the focus on that is right. Um, you know, I have three young girls, and being a parent is hard. And, like, you care s- like, you just wanna make sure that they have, like, good lives. And, um, so, like, from that perspective, what I aim for us to do is build our services in a way that's aligned with parents, giving them the controls that they need to basically oversee how the services work for their, for their kids. What the data says today- ... is a little bit different from what the basic meme is that's out there. I, I think a lot of people kind of act as if there's been this proven connection between these, and I, I just don't think that the science supports that today. It might be that kind of phones have an issue, right? If you're getting kinda- if you're, um, you, you're getting notified for something or it's buzzing you and it's, like, preventing you from sleeping. I mean, that is different from, from social media. But look, I mean, there are clearly issues here across society, and we wanna make sure we're part of the solution to that.

    15. ECEmily Chang18:49

        Mm-hmm. You're doing all these things to make us more virtual, but you also love so many things about the real world.

    16. MZMark Zuckerberg18:54

        Yeah, yeah.

    17. ECEmily Chang18:54

        How do you wrestle with those two ambitions?

    18. MZMark Zuckerberg18:57

        Well, I don't know that they're at odds. I don't know. There's, like, a bunch of people in the tech community who think, like, "Oh, we'll just, like, separate out our consciousness and intelligence and, like, upload it to the cloud." And I'm like, "That just sounds ridiculous to me." I mean, to me, it's like, like, I think part of what makes you a person is you, like, are active and you have energy, right? It's not... Like, we're not just minds, right? It's, um, like, I think the kind of the energy and, like, the love and all those things are, like, probably as foundational to what makes you a person.

    19. ECEmily Chang19:26

        [upbeat music]

15. 19:33 – 24:01

    Wakesurfing with Mark: family banter, coaching, and the long arc of tech

    1. ECEmily Chang19:33

       You're gonna teach me how to wake surf.

    2. SPSpeaker19:35

       I heard you're a surfer and you're from Hawaii.

    3. ECEmily Chang19:36

       No, no, no.

    4. SPSpeaker19:37

       Mm.

    5. ECEmily Chang19:37

       I'm from Hawaii, and I have surfed before.

    6. SPSpeaker19:39

       Great.

    7. ECEmily Chang19:40

       But I'm not a surfer.

    8. SPSpeaker19:41

       Okay.

    9. ECEmily Chang19:41

       Um, I hear you're a surfer.

    10. MZMark Zuckerberg19:42

        Yeah, Priscilla's quite good.

    11. ECEmily Chang19:46

        I'm really glad Priscilla is here because I hear she puts you in your place.

    12. MZMark Zuckerberg19:49

        Yeah.

    13. ECEmily Chang19:49

        [laughs]

    14. MZMark Zuckerberg19:49

        Oh, yeah. A little, little. Look, it's good. It's good.

    15. ECEmily Chang19:52

        What's Mark's best dad joke?

    16. SPSpeaker19:54

        So, like, sometimes when Mark has a fail with the kids, he'll just say, like, "Not your, not my best work."

    17. MZMark Zuckerberg19:59

        [laughs] Yeah, no.

    18. SPSpeaker20:00

        "Not my best work."

    19. MZMark Zuckerberg20:01

        [laughs]

    20. SPSpeaker20:01

        That's just, like, a thing he says.

    21. MZMark Zuckerberg20:02

        No, when I'm braiding Max's hair every night.

    22. ECEmily Chang20:04

        You braid hair?

    23. SPSpeaker20:05

        Yeah.

    24. MZMark Zuckerberg20:05

        Yeah, I braid Max's hair, and I'm like, "Oh, you know, um, it's like, ah, I think I did well tonight." Or it's like, "Ah, this is not my best work."

    25. SPSpeaker20:12

        But now the kids will braid him and go-

    26. MZMark Zuckerberg20:13

        Yeah, so it's like-

    27. SPSpeaker20:14

        ... "Dad, not your best work."

    28. MZMark Zuckerberg20:15

        So it's just like-

    29. ECEmily Chang20:16

        What's it been like for you being in a relationship with all of this? Like, for so long.

    30. SPSpeaker20:20

        I don't know. I think being in nature and, like, doing sports is, like, so important, especially for Mark. Mark has so much energy. He needs to burn off energy every single day.

Episode duration: 24:01