The Single Mom Millionaire Reveals How To *actually* GET RICH In 2025! | @donniwiggins_

1. 0:00 – 1:30

   Intro

   1. DWDonni Wiggins0:00

      They will pay you just enough to keep you as a slave to do their hard work. Like, let's think about it. Out of 365 days in a year, you get maybe 10 to live your life and make decisions and not wake up to an alarm clock and not have every decision be based on the job that you clock in and out of. And the moment that you become valueless, none of that matters.

   2. CJCalum Johnson0:20

      We have to talk about the foreclosure. What was happening at that time?

   3. DWDonni Wiggins0:23

      I looked at my daughter and I said, "Mommy is really sorry. I'm gonna fix this, and we will never experience this again in life." And I had a stern talk with myself, "Get it together, and it's no longer just about you." I discovered poverty on my own, and it was because I had a terrible relationship with money.

   4. CJCalum Johnson0:43

      You remember that first moment where you made seven figures?

   5. DWDonni Wiggins0:46

      I do. I remember I had a $100,000 day, and I'm like, "Okay, we're onto something." And by the end of that month, I made seven figures.

   6. CJCalum Johnson0:57

      Okay, so before we get into this episode, literally right before I headed into the studio, my team handed me some research, and what it said is that less than 50% of the people that watch this channel are actually subscribed. When I heard it, I nearly fell off my chair. But no, in all seriousness, please subscribe to this channel, and if you do, I promise that we will take every part of this show to the next level. Scale the guests, scale the production, scale the marketing. So please subscribe to the channel and let's grow

2. 1:30 – 3:45

   I was not meant to be succcessful! (Single Mom)

   1. CJCalum Johnson1:30

      together. I was reading an article that you did on the Black Enterprise magazine.

   2. DWDonni Wiggins1:35

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CJCalum Johnson1:36

      And one of the quotes from that, you said, "David and I on paper are not two people who should have earned millions of dollars."

   4. DWDonni Wiggins1:44

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CJCalum Johnson1:45

      "First we want people to see that, then we want them to actually walk out of that room with practical and actionable steps." And so I wanna go back to that first line. "David and I on paper are not two people who should have earned millions of dollars." What made you say that?

   6. DWDonni Wiggins2:04

      Um, when you think about a seven-figure or multiple seven, eight-figure income earner, society will make you believe that you have to fit a certain profile. And when I think of myself, I am a single mom. Um, I raised my daughter. I had her in my early 20s. I'm a college dropout. Um, I was growing up an early adult just completely unfocused. I was the queen, so I thought, of multiple streams of income. I can do everything. I don't need to focus. I'm a multitasker. I can do all the things. I did not go to business school. So when you think about all of those variables, it just doesn't seem to make sense, right? Uh, that I would go on and to be able to build a large business and figure this out, and be a business coach doing that on top of it all. Uh, but I am grateful because I believe that the journey that I was on of trying things, uh, whenever someone asks me about what I've done for a career, it's like, "Oh, I've done that, and I've done that, and I've done that." And I always get like, "Wow, you've lived a million lives. What haven't you done?"

   7. CJCalum Johnson3:07

      Mm-hmm.

   8. DWDonni Wiggins3:07

      And I'm like, "You know what? That's actually what qualifies me to be in the position that I'm in today because I've consistently been a risk-taker, and I'll try everything legal at least once."

   9. CJCalum Johnson3:19

      Mm.

   10. DWDonni Wiggins3:19

       Yeah.

   11. CJCalum Johnson3:20

       Yeah. You know, it's funny that you even said that you've lived, um, people say that you've lived a million different lives.

   12. DWDonni Wiggins3:25

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CJCalum Johnson3:25

       So as you were speaking, that's exactly what I was gonna say.

   14. DWDonni Wiggins3:28

       Yeah.

   15. CJCalum Johnson3:28

       Um, and you've had different seasons-

   16. DWDonni Wiggins3:31

       Mm-hmm

   17. CJCalum Johnson3:31

       ... of your life as well. And you know what? We're gonna get into how someone can make and achieve their dreams in 2025 and make their first million in 2025. I wanna get into the actionable steps. But before we do-

   18. DWDonni Wiggins3:44

       Mm-hmm

3. 3:45 – 6:52

   Keep Your Inner Child Safe!

   1. CJCalum Johnson3:45

      ... there was a quote that I saw, actually, it was one of your Instagram captions, and, and this is what you said. You said, "My biggest cheerleader is fifth grade Donniitra, who created her first vision board. She didn't know the power of dreaming back then, but first she imagined it and later she real lifed it."

   2. DWDonni Wiggins4:05

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CJCalum Johnson4:05

      "Whenever I'm dealing with an extremely low feeling, I try to remember to not let that fifth grade version of myself down, the kid whose vision board was plastered in the hallways of her elementary school, the kid who believed that nothing she wanted was out of reach." And so here's where I wanna go, because before we get into the practical stuff, I wanna get the context, the early context. And so if we go back to that fifth grade Donniitra, what were some of those dreams?

   4. DWDonni Wiggins4:36

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CJCalum Johnson4:36

      What was on that vision board?

   6. DWDonni Wiggins4:37

      You know what's funny is, uh, my screensaver is fifth grade Donniitra. [laughs]

   7. CJCalum Johnson4:42

      Okay.

   8. DWDonni Wiggins4:42

      For you guys to see that, that literally is my screensaver. Um, this is where I learned to dream. This is where I started to become much of myself. Uh, people never believe this, but in real life I'm quite shy. Uh, reserved, in fact, right? I am outgoing when I'm on, but just the everyday me, I like to be by myself. I'm very, um, you know, not withdrawn, but very reserved. I'm very laid back. And in fifth grade, uh, that's when I can remember doing, like, my very first play where I had, like, a star role and I had a speaking part, and we had this assignment to create our future selves. My mom actually still has this vision board in my childhood memory box. And at that time, um, I thought I would be a lawyer, which is very on brand for me because of how opinionated I am, and I research everything. I, I'm right all the time.

   9. CJCalum Johnson5:36

      Yeah.

   10. DWDonni Wiggins5:36

       Right? Um, I thought I would be a lawyer. Um, I knew that I would be fabulous. I could just see that picture that I drew of myself with the high heels and the makeup and, you know, all the things. But that was the first, like, future vision that I had of who it was possible- To be, right?

   11. CJCalum Johnson5:55

       Mm-hmm.

   12. DWDonni Wiggins5:55

       Um, I didn't know any lawyers at that time. I don't even know where I got that from. Uh, but I wanted a lawyer and a husband and a dog and, uh, the house with the white picket fence. And it looks a little different today. You know, I don't, I don't yet have the husband. I did have the dog. He just passed away. I live in a condo in the sky, not a ranch in- with a picket fence. But that fifth-grade version of me was the person who started to discover her skill set, and it was where I started to build, like, the most confidence in myself and started to come into my own of what do I like. She was very opinionated. She was very talented. Um, she was shy, but when she performed, she blew everybody away.

   13. CJCalum Johnson6:36

       Mm.

   14. DWDonni Wiggins6:36

       And that's very indicative of who I am today.

   15. CJCalum Johnson6:39

       Hmm.

   16. DWDonni Wiggins6:40

       Yeah.

   17. CJCalum Johnson6:40

       You know, I love the way that you describe her. I think one of the things that you, you even just said, you said, um, "I knew I would be fabulous."

   18. DWDonni Wiggins6:47

       For sure.

   19. CJCalum Johnson6:48

       And so-

   20. DWDonni Wiggins6:48

       I mean, [laughs] hello.

   21. CJCalum Johnson6:50

       [laughs]

   22. DWDonni Wiggins6:51

       [laughs]

   23. CJCalum Johnson6:51

       I'm,

4. 6:52 – 12:28

   Your environment shapes who you are.

   1. CJCalum Johnson6:52

      I'm curious to understand, like, at that time, what about your environment, about your household, about the way that you kind of grew up, what gave that confidence, that, like, that ability that I can just dream?

   2. DWDonni Wiggins7:08

      Yeah.

   3. CJCalum Johnson7:08

      'Cause not everyone has that or even has the opportunity to have that, that sort of mindset as a kid.

   4. DWDonni Wiggins7:13

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CJCalum Johnson7:13

      What, what was it about your situation?

   6. DWDonni Wiggins7:15

      Um, several things. So I- the, the, the most unique memory I have, I have ingrained, um, in my head at that time, we lived in these apartments, um, near the airport here in Atlanta, and there is this vision that I have of my mom. She was about to go out that night, and she's standing in the mirror of our living room, and she's checking herself out. She's got the bouncy hair, and she's the makeup and the big bangles and, you know, the high heels and the fabulous body and just all the things. And I thought my mom was so fabulous. Like, and everybody else did. All the boys who were friends with me, all of my friends, they just thought my mom was so fabulous, and that was the first, um, that was the first vision, so to speak, or the first role model that I had in terms of how I wanted to present as a lady. It was always the perfume, always the makeup, always the perfectly placed hair. Even relaxed, it was just, like, stylish and cute, you know?

   7. CJCalum Johnson8:18

      Mm-hmm.

   8. DWDonni Wiggins8:18

      And she was always on brand and always had this really youthful energy, and that's where I believe I got that from. Uh, when we think about me as a business person, uh, my stepfather, I refer to as my dad, so just for clarity there. Um, my mom and my da- my stepfather is the smartest human being I know, right? And he is responsible for giving me the courage to go out and try a million things. And so I tell people now, "Let your kids just try stuff." But he's the reason why I tried a million things. But the business savvy actually also came from my mom, um, watching her at a very young age just try a bunch of stuff. Like, my mom was a computer programmer, and she edited newspapers, and she was a cosmetologist doing nails and pedicures and all the things. Like, I just watched her try so many things, and I think between the two of them, I had this strong desire to really show up and be intelligent and a strong desire to just try stuff and be creative at the same time.

   9. CJCalum Johnson9:21

      Hmm. Hmm. That's awesome. Okay. It's almost like, um, it feels like your mom was a real role model for you at that time.

   10. DWDonni Wiggins9:27

       My mom was my first role model.

   11. CJCalum Johnson9:29

       Yeah.

   12. DWDonni Wiggins9:29

       Yeah.

   13. CJCalum Johnson9:29

       That's awesome. Um, [lips smack] you know what? Here's where I wanna go next, and I've, I've even, I've heard you mention it in a few interviews. At a pretty early point, you wanted to be an entrepreneur-

   14. DWDonni Wiggins9:40

       Mm-hmm

   15. CJCalum Johnson9:40

       ... or a CEO or build a business.

   16. DWDonni Wiggins9:42

       Yeah, yeah.

   17. CJCalum Johnson9:42

       So when you, you mention, you know, wanting to be a lawyer initially-

   18. DWDonni Wiggins9:47

       Yeah

   19. CJCalum Johnson9:47

       ... at what point did that transition to, "No, I wanna be an entrepreneur"?

   20. DWDonni Wiggins9:50

       I don't even know if I understood that being a lawyer wasn't being an entrepreneur, and today it is.

   21. CJCalum Johnson9:55

       Mm-hmm.

   22. DWDonni Wiggins9:55

       Like, you can have your own practice, and you're an entrepreneur. Um, if I'm being honest, Calum, what I wanted to be was useful. I wanted to be valuable, right?

   23. CJCalum Johnson10:04

       Mm-hmm.

   24. DWDonni Wiggins10:05

       Um, and there was a part of me that also desired to be powerful. In whatever industry that I was gonna be in, I was going to be of the best in that industry. And, um, if I'm thinking about, like, a transition, I can remember in middle school I sold candy. You know, like, we would make, we would buy, uh, we'd go to Sam's or go to the grocery store and get all the Now and Laters and resell them in school. You weren't supposed to. I don't know if my mom knew I did that, but I did.

   25. CJCalum Johnson10:32

       [laughs]

   26. DWDonni Wiggins10:32

       Right? I was getting money in sixth grade. [laughs]

   27. CJCalum Johnson10:35

       [laughs]

   28. DWDonni Wiggins10:36

       Um, in high school I was, you know, writing papers for people because, uh, communication and my gift of writing just came naturally for me, so I always understood doing something extra. I didn't understand at that time that that was preparing me for entrepreneurship. Uh, my earliest actual experience with entrepreneurship, I was 17 or 18 years old. I was in college at North Carolina A&T, and me and my then roommate started a cleaning service. We'd gone to run some errands with her cousin and uncle, and they had this commercial cleaning service. And they would send us in, uh, this particular day to go and pick up the checks.

   29. CJCalum Johnson11:14

       Mm-hmm.

   30. DWDonni Wiggins11:14

       Like, you know, we're driving from building to building to go pick up these checks, and we're getting these checks, and it's like $1,000 and $500 and this, that, and the other. I'm like, "Whoa, how are you getting this money?" And he's like, "Oh, just start a cleaning service." Right? And that lasted maybe all of two weeks. I thought it was a glamorous idea. I get to make money. At that time, I was a package handler for UPS, and I'm like, "This is a much easier way-
5. 12:28 – 19:23

   Donni's early failures in business

   1. DWDonni Wiggins12:28

      really pay attention to that.

   2. CJCalum Johnson12:29

      Mm. You know, we- we- we're gonna get into your, um, career, 'cause I think it's so interesting.

   3. DWDonni Wiggins12:34

      Mm-hmm.

   4. CJCalum Johnson12:35

      But you know what? I want to, um... I'm interested to understand what was even the allure of entrepreneurship at the early stages, and I understand seeing your mom do it and people around you doing it. Um, and, and here's the, here's kind of how I'll give it context. For me, you know, kind of when you're a kid, I think very early on, kids are incredibly intelligent.

   5. DWDonni Wiggins12:57

      Mm-hmm.

   6. CJCalum Johnson12:58

      And you can e- even just going into school and being in the classroom, you start to kind of see where you fit in, like, the economic-

   7. DWDonni Wiggins13:06

      Yeah

   8. CJCalum Johnson13:06

      ... hierarchy, right?

   9. DWDonni Wiggins13:07

      Mm-hmm.

   10. CJCalum Johnson13:07

       You have, like, the, when I go to, I dunno, Burt's house-

   11. DWDonni Wiggins13:11

       Yeah

   12. CJCalum Johnson13:11

       ... you can see he has a beautiful house. It's huge. He got two cars.

   13. DWDonni Wiggins13:14

       Yeah.

   14. CJCalum Johnson13:14

       Burt's rich. Sam, on the other hand, he's kinda like me. Like, for you, even growing up, what was... Was there a desire to be rich? Was there a desire to be successful, or was it purely just, you know, "I see my mom running different businesses," and-

   15. DWDonni Wiggins13:34

       Mm-hmm

   16. CJCalum Johnson13:34

       ... what was, like, the origin of that, that motivation?

   17. DWDonni Wiggins13:36

       I wanted to get money. [laughs]

   18. CJCalum Johnson13:39

       Mm.

   19. DWDonni Wiggins13:39

       That was it. There was nothing deep about it. I understood that if I wanted things in life, it required money. Um, when we, when you think about the socioeconomic status, um, at that time, at that time my family was considered rich. Everybody thought we had money. Um, I would go on later to realize that we just lived a very polished middle-class life, but at that time everybody thought my parents were loaded because I was spoiled. We had all the things, right? Um, I, I mean, I was spoiled. But I also know that I was extremely grounded. I don't know if you remember this, um, but when I was in middle school, the commercials would come on TV with these kids from Africa, and they'd be these children that have all the... You know, they showed the commercial. You got the flies flying all around you-

   20. CJCalum Johnson14:26

       Yeah

   21. DWDonni Wiggins14:26

       ... and the big bellies, the overextended bellies. And the phone number would pop up and say, "If you want to sponsor this kid..." Um, and I would take my allowance and, like, beg my mom if I could send money. And do you remember that? I would actually send these kids in Africa my allowance, right? And they'd send you these letters back. You get these updates. You get these letters and this picture, and I don't even know if it was real, at, you know, if I was sending money to these kids, but in my heart I was. And you get these updates and these report cards, and they write you a letter, and they send you a picture. And I wanted to help more of them. So then I wanted to do other things to make more money so I could help more of those kids.

   22. CJCalum Johnson15:07

       Mm.

   23. DWDonni Wiggins15:07

       And, you know, so while I was spoiled, I've also been extremely grounded. I've always desired to be a servant person.

   24. CJCalum Johnson15:14

       Mm.

   25. DWDonni Wiggins15:15

       I love helping people. That's just who I've been, even when I don't have it to do. And so that was the start of it very early on, coupled with the fact that you do notice that there's a stark difference, you know, um, economically between different families. I remember, uh, we lived in this apartment community, and right across the street in the same apartment community, right across the street was a friend of mine. And I'll never forget. We had one sleepover. It was one and done for me. You come to my house. You have, my room is clean. My toys are lined up. I've got all the things. The house smells good. My mom's probably in the kitchen cooking something. You go right across the street into her apartment. Same community, same layout, same everything. There's roaches everywhere. Her parents are giving us cereal with water, right?

   26. CJCalum Johnson16:11

       Mm.

   27. DWDonni Wiggins16:11

       And if you open the cereal box, it could be a roach in the cereal box. And I remembered being so uncomfortable, so disgusted, feeling so, like, w- I, I didn't know that people lived like that.

   28. CJCalum Johnson16:25

       Mm.

   29. DWDonni Wiggins16:25

       Right? And, but, but I didn't wanna say anything, so I stuck it out, you know, that night. But I remember going right back across the street to my mom and like, "I never wanna go back there."

   30. CJCalum Johnson16:33

       Mm.
6. 19:23 – 26:41

   How to handle parental pressure.

   1. DWDonni Wiggins19:23

      paid money.

   2. CJCalum Johnson19:23

      You know what's interesting? So, um, obviously I went to school in the UK in London, and I went to a school, so grammar school-

   3. DWDonni Wiggins19:30

      Mm-hmm

   4. CJCalum Johnson19:30

      ... which basically means it's like a state school, but you have to take an exam to get in, so it's meant to be more like academically rigorous. And so a lot of the kids that I grew up around, um, them, but even more so their parents-

   5. DWDonni Wiggins19:44

      Mm-hmm

   6. CJCalum Johnson19:45

      ... took academics, took schooling incredibly seriously.

   7. DWDonni Wiggins19:50

      Yeah.

   8. CJCalum Johnson19:50

      Like, not to be overly dramatic, for some of their parents it felt almost like, like a life and death thing that their kid go into a certain university, a certain school. And so, and to be honest, a lot of their parents, um, were phenomenal. Like what they'd achieved-

   9. DWDonni Wiggins20:07

      Mm

   10. CJCalum Johnson20:07

       ... in their career was phenomenal. And so I kind of got to see at an early age, which is having great parents and phenomenal and accomplished parents is a beautiful thing. There's also a pressure that comes with having, um, just such accomplished parents and parents that are like, they're admired.

   11. DWDonni Wiggins20:29

       Mm-hmm.

   12. CJCalum Johnson20:29

       And so I'm curious for you, even when we, we start talking about kind of your college, and you mention even being like a college dropout, what was, um... Was there a pressure that almost came with how great your mom was?

   13. DWDonni Wiggins20:44

       So my mom was great, right? But I don't want to paint a picture like they were these accomplished people. They... We weren't the Cosbys. [laughs]

   14. CJCalum Johnson20:53

       Mm-hmm.

   15. DWDonni Wiggins20:53

       Right? Um, my parents worked jobs, and everything that they were able to provide for us, they worked for, and there were overtime hours, and there were seasons of working multiple jobs, both of them. So this wasn't like a cakewalk. It wasn't like they had these high-paying jobs at that time-

   16. CJCalum Johnson21:13

       Mm

   17. DWDonni Wiggins21:13

       ... I thought. But knowing as an adult now, I, I understand that they really did the best that they could because they sacrificed for me, right?

   18. CJCalum Johnson21:21

       Mm.

   19. DWDonni Wiggins21:22

       Um, so it wasn't that. But yes, I believe because we were, um... If I have to guess, I would guess that it was challenging for them to provide the life for me that they provided. It, it wasn't easy, right?

   20. CJCalum Johnson21:34

       Mm.

   21. DWDonni Wiggins21:35

       Um, I would... You know, nothing about it was easy, and I think that my, my family may have been motivated by the dis-ease of it all and wanted better for me, the same way-

   22. CJCalum Johnson21:46

       Mm

   23. DWDonni Wiggins21:46

       ... I am with my daughter.

   24. CJCalum Johnson21:47

       Mm-hmm.

   25. DWDonni Wiggins21:47

       It hasn't been easy. It's been challenging 100% of the time, and so I prepare her in a way that says, "I want this to go a little bit smoother for you. I want better for you." Um, and so I think maybe my mom was motivated by the fact that she wasn't a college, um, graduate. I believe she got an associate's degree later, but she wasn't a college graduate. And she, you know, I, I... There was another side to it. I watched my mom kind of beat herself up because she didn't graduate college and thought, "Well, if I did, I could do so much more." So yes, there was a pressure put on me like, "Because I didn't, you will." [laughs]

   26. CJCalum Johnson22:24

       Mm.

   27. DWDonni Wiggins22:24

       And that was a battle for some years. [laughs]

   28. CJCalum Johnson22:26

       Mm-hmm.

   29. DWDonni Wiggins22:26

       For sure. Um, not necessarily where I went to school, but, um, you know, my summers didn't look like everybody else's summers. I didn't get to just stay home in my bedroom and do stuff. Every single summer I was away at some summer program for math or science or, um, English, something that was preparing me to be better, um, stand out more because I believe, you know, my parents understood that at that time college was really competitive, and they wanted me to be prepared for that. So even, uh, the high school that I went to, it was a math and science magnet high school. Um, I went to, you know, FAMU and North Carolina A&T and South Carolina State for all of these engineering programs. You know, everybody else is having fun in 10th grade. I'm building a solar powered car-

   30. CJCalum Johnson23:13

       Mm
7. 26:41 – 30:26

   Never settle!

   1. DWDonni Wiggins26:41

      So that decision wasn't wholly because I understood I wanted to be an entrepreneur. Um, in college, I experienced a very traumatic, toxic, uh, violent relationship, and that relationship would be with someone who, if I stayed, he probably would've taken my life.

   2. CJCalum Johnson26:59

      Mm.

   3. DWDonni Wiggins26:59

      So I had to leave. I was forced to leave school, and I came back here to Atlanta. My mom at that time worked at Clark Atlanta University, and she's like, "Oh, I can just... You know, you can go for free, you know, at Clark, and come and take your classes and dual degree in engineering between Clark and Georgia Tech." And when I went to... I enrolled, and when I went into class that first week, it just felt, it felt like somebody ripped my dreams away from me because I didn't leave school voluntarily, right? And I just could not shake the fact that someone robbed me of my dream.

   4. CJCalum Johnson27:36

      Mm.

   5. DWDonni Wiggins27:37

      And I wanted to just change gears altogether. Like, I wasn't gonna settle. I've never been a person to settle, and I wasn't gonna settle even in college. So it's like, "Okay. He robbed me of my dream. I will do something completely different. We're done with this college thing" And I just... My parents wouldn't let me quit, so I had to flunk out. [laughs]

   6. CJCalum Johnson27:56

      [laughs]

   7. DWDonni Wiggins27:57

      I just had to make it so that I couldn't go back.

   8. CJCalum Johnson27:59

      [laughs]

   9. DWDonni Wiggins27:59

      Now what you gonna do? [laughs]

   10. CJCalum Johnson28:01

       [laughs]

   11. DWDonni Wiggins28:01

       What are we gonna do now, right? So, um, I didn't quite flunk out, but I, I did poorly.

   12. CJCalum Johnson28:07

       Yeah.

   13. DWDonni Wiggins28:07

       And it just did not make any sense for me to go back. Um, but at the same time, you know, I didn't have a plan. There was no, "I'm quitting school to do this thing." It is, "I feel robbed of my dream." I look around, and I saw people that I went to high school with. Um, if I'm being honest, I saw people that I went to high school with that barely graduated high school-

   14. CJCalum Johnson28:30

       Mm

   15. DWDonni Wiggins28:30

       ... at school with me now, and so there was no challenge for me, and I'm very motivated via a challenge. And I just sat in those classes, and I'm like, "I can't. I just can't do this. I'm not going to piece together..." I didn't even wanna g- I wanted to go to college because I wanted to pledge a sorority and have the college experience, but I was really never interested in doing four more years of school, if I'm being honest.

   16. CJCalum Johnson28:54

       Mm-hmm.

   17. DWDonni Wiggins28:54

       Um, I was great at school, but I hated school.

   18. CJCalum Johnson28:56

       Mm.

   19. DWDonni Wiggins28:56

       So I was never interested in that. I was going because I wanted to make my parents proud. Not just my parents. Like, I have, um, my godfather and my godmom. Every... I was the one for my family, and I realize that now, later.

   20. CJCalum Johnson29:11

       Mm.

   21. DWDonni Wiggins29:11

       Like, I've always been the one. I have been the one that people have expected to live a big life. Um, I've been the one that people expected to do very well and very successful. Everybody's always seen something in me that says, "Oh, it's gonna be you." And so my family really poured into, even outside of my mom and dad, including my, my godfather and godmom, they really poured resources into making sure that I was successful. Um, connections and relationships and access, proximity. And I went to college because I didn't want to spit on that. I didn't wanna-

   22. CJCalum Johnson29:46

       Mm

   23. DWDonni Wiggins29:46

       ... disrespect that. But it was literally killing me on the inside to sit in that environment, and I just flunked out-

   24. CJCalum Johnson29:54

       Mm

   25. DWDonni Wiggins29:54

       ... and moved on.

   26. CJCalum Johnson29:56

       Yeah. You know what? It's, it's interesting just even... [clicks tongue] 'Cause I think we've all had that, when we kind of, we're in a certain situation, and we know it's not for us. Like, we just know it's not. And- Even the language that you use, like it was killing you, or like even that you're, um, having to go to that other university, it was like your, your dream had been robbed of you

   27. DWDonni Wiggins30:15

       Mm-hmm

   28. CJCalum Johnson30:15

       And that's how it feels when you're in a position where you're like, "I'm not meant to be here."

   29. DWDonni Wiggins30:20

       Yeah.

   30. CJCalum Johnson30:21

       Um, you know what? You spoke about, um,

8. 30:26 – 40:19

   Every experience builds you up

   1. CJCalum Johnson30:26

      you being the one

   2. DWDonni Wiggins30:28

      Mm-hmm

   3. CJCalum Johnson30:29

      And so I'm curious how it tracks at the time, and we even have your mom in the room, but I'm curious how it tracks at the time of like, you know, all of this effort and investment and time-

   4. DWDonni Wiggins30:43

      [laughs]

   5. CJCalum Johnson30:43

      ... has been poured into you, and then there's this decision of like, you're actually gonna swerve left

   6. DWDonni Wiggins30:49

      I left college, this, all this access, these resources, this time, these relationships. I left chemical engineering path to go pursue a music career. My mom flipped out [laughs]

   7. CJCalum Johnson31:02

      [laughs]

   8. DWDonni Wiggins31:05

      It was, "I can't believe you would do this. You're wasting your life away." You know, it was, it was not a warm welcome, I'll say that. [laughs] Um, I, you know, I'm, I'm, I am a gifted communicator. I, at that time, was also a, a really talented songwriter, and I discovered that at the age of 19 years old. And I met this producer at a restaurant one day, and we were just talking at this bar, and, um, he was saying that he's a producer, and he was working with this artist, and she's a great songwriter, and you guys should meet. You would hit it off. And, uh, we introdu- we, we met. We were introduced, and she's today my best friend.

   9. CJCalum Johnson31:44

      Mm.

   10. DWDonni Wiggins31:44

       Um, but we hit it off, and we were writing these songs, and it just seemed so glamorous and so fabulous, and I'm like, wow, I'm really good at this part, and let's actually be the artist, too, not just the songwriter. So I went down that journey, too, and it was probably the best time of my life. I'm so glad that I went down that road. My mom used to say to me at the time, though, her mom passed away when she was 23 years old, three months before I was born, and she was ill-prepared for that. Um, it was a very rapid, sudden loss, unexpected, and, um, she didn't know how she would move on. She just knew that she had to move on, right? And so for the first part of my life, like of course my mom raised me, but I was going back and forth between, um, who would have, who would have stepped in like a grandmother to me, my great aunt, and coming back and forth between New Orleans and Atlanta because my mom just needed to really ground herself. And I believe that I'm 19 years old, and my mom back in the day was in the music industry, and she sees me going down this path-

   11. CJCalum Johnson33:05

       Mm-hmm

   12. DWDonni Wiggins33:05

       ... of ending up like her. And in her mind, that wasn't a good thing. And I th- I think, we've never discussed this, but I think that she had a fear of what if she passed away and I was a very young adult, right?

   13. CJCalum Johnson33:22

       Mm-hmm.

   14. DWDonni Wiggins33:23

       She would tell me all the time, "If something happens to me, I just don't know that you can take care of yourself."

   15. CJCalum Johnson33:29

       Mm.

   16. DWDonni Wiggins33:30

       And at that time, I thought she was being very dramatic, but when I reached her age, I'm now a mom, and I'm like, okay, I'm doing the math, like okay, my grandmother passed away of a cancer that she never even qualified to have, but they said that's what she had. It skips a generation. Now it's gonna be me. And what if I die, and, you know, my daughter is young, and, you know, all these things. I understood that when she said, "If something happens to me, I don't know how you'd provide for yourself," was really her still being connected to her own experience. Something happened to her mom at a time where she needed her the most, and she was not prepared for that.

   17. CJCalum Johnson34:12

       Mm.

   18. DWDonni Wiggins34:12

       And so she just wanted the best for me. We battled it out. Like, it got to a point where I couldn't even talk to her about what I was doing because I felt like she was a dream killer. But now on the other side of that, I just get that her own life experiences just wanted her to, wanted me to not experience what she had to experience, and she just wanted to make sure I was prepared in the event that something happened early on, and thank God it did not, um, but in the event that that happened, she'd know that her daughter was okay.

   19. CJCalum Johnson34:46

       Mm.

   20. DWDonni Wiggins34:47

       And I am such a wild card. It could go either way. [laughs]

   21. CJCalum Johnson34:53

       [laughs]

   22. DWDonni Wiggins34:54

       I am such a wild card. Um, I don't stress over anything. You know, I, I just don't stress. I've got a... I asked my mom to zip my dress up today, and in the back of the dress as I was zipping it up, it ripped a little. And my mom is like, "Oh my God, you can wear my coat as soon as we get out of the car. You can do it."

   23. CJCalum Johnson35:10

       [laughs]

   24. DWDonni Wiggins35:10

       I'm like, "Ma, it's fine." [laughs]

   25. CJCalum Johnson35:12

       [laughs]

   26. DWDonni Wiggins35:13

       You know? I just don't really stress out about anything, and that has always been, it, it's a gift and a curse, right? Um, so yes, we battled it out, and we battled it out until I was about 37 years old-

   27. CJCalum Johnson35:29

       Wow

   28. DWDonni Wiggins35:29

       ... in terms of what I'd do with my life.

   29. CJCalum Johnson35:32

       Wow.

   30. DWDonni Wiggins35:32

       But I was right. [laughs]
9. 40:19 – 45:18

   Why you must save and invest

   1. CJCalum Johnson40:19

      And so you know what? I wanna fast-forward to, um, a year that I know is a very interesting year for you. It's also a very interesting year for me, actually, which was 2008 and the recession.

   2. DWDonni Wiggins40:30

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CJCalum Johnson40:31

      And everything that happened in that time. And I believe you let me know, but, like, at that time you were, or before the recession or in that kinda close lead-up to the recession, you were, like, working in property and real estate.

   4. DWDonni Wiggins40:45

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CJCalum Johnson40:45

      So, so tell me, kinda give me the context of, like, Donni at that point in time.

   6. DWDonni Wiggins40:51

      Yeah. So at that time I'm a single mom, newly single mom. Um, I'd recently broken off of an en- off an engagement with my daughter's father. I am Miss Can Do It On Her Own. Um, I'm working as a property manager and a real estate agent of this community that was being converted from apartments into condos, and I'm the only agent, so I am making all the money. I mean, ridiculous amounts of money. Um, but I had a poor relationship with money, so, you know, I'd make the money and I'd spend it just as quickly as I made it. You know, I at that time had the, Giuseppe was my designer of choice back then, and I'd go to, uh, to the mall, and they'd know I was coming. "Hey, I, I got 45 minutes on a lunch break. I need to be there." And my salesperson would be waiting, and I'm buying all the things, the shoes, the everything. I'm spending the money because commission checks were coming every other day literally. Um, and I would go on to make, you know, all this money, and then the recession would hit. And I remember at that time I was the only salesperson, um, for this property. I did, I, I've always been an overachiever, and so I'm there, I'm the only salesperson. It just didn't make sense for them to have anybody else because I'm, I'm that good. And I remember speaking to the developer of this property at the time, and, um- He lived in a different state, and I didn't like the management, so I ... They, they would never give me time off, right? I can't take time off. I'm the only agent. I have to be there all the things. And I remember, um, very vividly one time the developer came and he landed on ... He, he landed in Atlanta on his, with, on his helicopter with his son and his dog. And they came into the office and I said to him, "They won't give me any time off." And he said, "Well, I tell you what. If you close, you know, 10 more properties this week, you can take a weekend. We'll, we'll find some support for you." And he minutes later says, "Well, we're out of here. I'm taking the kid to Hawaii." And I remember in that moment saying, "I'll never be the person that has to ask for permission again-

   7. CJCalum Johnson43:19

      Mm

   8. DWDonni Wiggins43:19

      ... to be able to live my life." I needed time off at that time because, um, my daughter was in a program at school and I wanted to take the time off to get her hair done and go shopping for it and do all the things, and I took off that day anyway. Like, I'm gonna do it anyway. And I got in all this trouble for, you know, taking off this day, and I'm like, "I've made you guys millions of dollars. I need a day off with my daughter." And it was in that moment that I said, "Nobody would ever be control ... Nobody would ever have this much control of the quality of parent I am able to be ever again." And so I started to, you know, even then figure out how to reverse engineer this to do something else, and then the recession would come in. Uh, the recession would hit, and that same developer came in one day. It happened overnight. Literally went to sleep with a bunch of closings, like 30 closings on the books. The next day, they were all canceled because all the subprime len- lenders had been shut down.

   9. CJCalum Johnson44:18

      Mm-hmm.

   10. DWDonni Wiggins44:19

       And I went into the office, and I didn't know how serious this was, and that developer comes in and he says, "Well, I got some good news and I got some bad news." And I'm like, "All right." He's like, "Well, you know, the good news is, um, you've been wanting to spend some more time with your daughter. You're gonna be able to do that. The bad news is it's permanent."

   11. CJCalum Johnson44:38

       Wow.

   12. DWDonni Wiggins44:39

       And I said ... You know, initially I didn't even panic because I had 30-something closings on the books until I realized those closings had been canceled.

   13. CJCalum Johnson44:49

       Mm-hmm.

   14. DWDonni Wiggins44:49

       Those contracts were terminated, and I may have had $6,000 in the bank. I don't remember the number, but I do remember that it was highly irresponsible based on the, the amount of money that I was making at that time.

   15. CJCalum Johnson45:02

       Mm-hmm.

   16. DWDonni Wiggins45:03

       And I, you know, I've got this house, I've got cars, I've got my daughter, I've got all the things. And later that year, uh, maybe the next year, it took a, it took a minute, um, all in the same month I had a foreclosure, a repossession, and had to file bankruptcy shortly thereafter.

   17. CJCalum Johnson45:17

       Mm.

10. 45:18 – 49:10

    Your 9-5 steals your freedom!

    1. CJCalum Johnson45:18

       You know what? Before, before we get into that, I want to, um, 'cause I think it's a, it's a relatable feeling, and I, I even had it when I was working a job, which is ... And you kind of see it. I remember for me, 'cause I was, I was very junior at the time. But you see people who are even like ... I worked in marketing.

    2. DWDonni Wiggins45:34

       Mm-hmm.

    3. CJCalum Johnson45:34

       So, but you'll see like the head of marketing, so someone who's been within this track, within this pathway, they've reached the pinnacle of success and they still have no control over their own time.

    4. DWDonni Wiggins45:45

       Yeah.

    5. CJCalum Johnson45:45

       I remember the, um, for the guy, the, he was the CMO at the company I was at. The, the founder would just call him at any time of the night.

    6. DWDonni Wiggins45:53

       Yeah.

    7. CJCalum Johnson45:54

       He'd, I think he'd just had like a young daughter.

    8. DWDonni Wiggins45:56

       Mm-hmm.

    9. CJCalum Johnson45:56

       Any time of the night he'd get a phone call and he'd have to be responsive.

    10. DWDonni Wiggins45:59

        Mm-hmm.

    11. CJCalum Johnson46:00

        And I think for a lot of people, they get to that place in their job where they're like, "Okay, I got the promotions. I have the seniority, I have the respect, I have the, the validation from that. I have the increased salary. I still have no real control over my own life."

    12. DWDonni Wiggins46:18

        It's all a facade. It's all a facade. They will pay you just enough to keep you as a slave to do their hard work.

    13. CJCalum Johnson46:25

        Mm.

    14. DWDonni Wiggins46:26

        And that's what I learned at that time. Um, there, there is no control. No matter how high level you are in that moment, you, you don't have control, especially if you're a high performer, because they need you, right? These, these companies, they, they need you to perform, so you don't get to do all these things. And even if you do get to do it, like let's think about it. Out of 365 days in a year, you get maybe 10 to live your life and make decisions and not wake up to an alarm clock, and not have every decision be based on the job that you clock in and out of. And the moment that you become valueless to them, none of that matters.

    15. CJCalum Johnson47:06

        Mm.

    16. DWDonni Wiggins47:07

        The only way to really be in control of this, and, and this is no knock to anybody who chooses the corporate pathway. It was once for me. But it's all a facade.

    17. CJCalum Johnson47:17

        Mm.

    18. DWDonni Wiggins47:17

        If you want to really, really be in control, you have to actually take control. You know, we see it all around us. Look at what happened in, in 2020 to 2022. These jobs say, "Hey, it's over with. We've got to lay the whole department off." Nothing, no amount of hard work and good talent and how much money you brought to the table mattered at that time. The company says, "Oh, we're gonna give you free time. You're gonna all be able to work from home." Well, now look at all these companies now in recent news saying, "You've got until the end of the month to come back into the office and, or it's game over." It's all a facade. Like, we're never really in control. And I'll even take it a step further. Even as an entrepreneur, people sometimes are on that pathway because they desire control, myself included, you know, at an, at an early stage, but you're still not in control. You still have to serve your clients. You still have to serve your customers. There is still an agreement in which you have to fulfill certain terms, and if you don't, this all falls apart, right?

    19. CJCalum Johnson48:15

        Mm.

    20. DWDonni Wiggins48:15

        So we have to Kind of move past that idea or that notion of being in control

    21. CJCalum Johnson48:21

        Mm-hmm

    22. DWDonni Wiggins48:21

        and instead we have to map out what a quality of life looks like for us. Well, what does it look like for me to be fulfilled? What does fulfillment look like? What, if I'm on my deathbed, will make me say I lived a full life? What makes me proud of myself? What makes me feel like I submitted to and answered to my calling, right? And sometimes you have less control when you take that type of responsibility on than you think you do. We're, we're never really in control.

    23. CJCalum Johnson48:51

        Hmm. No, that's so good. That's so good. And you know what? We're gonna get, we're gonna get deeper into the practical steps of how someone can find that calling, um, and that business or that idea that they are meant to run, and then how they can build it to, to know the first million this year. We're gonna get deeper

11. 49:10 – 1:01:17

    Channel your pain to become successful

    1. CJCalum Johnson49:10

       into it. But before we do, um, we have to talk about the foreclosure because I just, I, I feel like even, even just from reading about you and, and in the preparation for this, it felt like that was a, a turning point.

    2. DWDonni Wiggins49:26

       Mm-hmm.

    3. CJCalum Johnson49:26

       That the Donni Wiggins that existed before that foreclosure was fundamentally different than the Donni Wiggins that existed after it.

    4. DWDonni Wiggins49:36

       Mm-hmm.

    5. CJCalum Johnson49:37

       And so for those that don't know, can you just take us back to that moment? Like, what was happening at that time?

    6. DWDonni Wiggins49:47

       Yeah. Well, the year is 2009, 2010. My daughter is seven or eight years old at that time, and I am doing everything possible to save this home. Um, I've got a dream home in my 20s. Like, I bought my first house at, uh, it's like a 3,500 square foot, five bedrooms, on a basement, all the things, with a loft, it's beautiful, um, at 24 years old. And so I have a home that today people who are my current age dream about. And so I'm doing everything to save this home. I'm renting it out. I'm putting it up on Section 8, and nothing's working out, right? I moved out. I went and lived with my mom. I took me and my daughter back to, uh, my old childhood bedroom. We were sharing a bedroom, my old bedroom at that time. And I can remember, Calum, uh, one day I'm in that bedroom at my mom's house, and, uh, I had gone from making a strong six figures prior to the recession to having to go back to work in leasing, uh, property management, leasing apartments through a temp agency for $11 an hour.

    7. CJCalum Johnson50:58

       Mm-hmm.

    8. DWDonni Wiggins50:59

       Strong pay cut.

    9. CJCalum Johnson51:00

       Mm-hmm.

    10. DWDonni Wiggins51:01

        And I remember being off on this particular day, and the TV's on, and I'm laughing. My mom walks past my room, and she walks past my room, and she's trying her best to just keep going.

    11. CJCalum Johnson51:14

        Mm-hmm.

    12. DWDonni Wiggins51:15

        But she stops, and she comes back, and she looks in the bedroom, and she says, "I just don't get what you have to be happy about."

    13. CJCalum Johnson51:23

        Mm.

    14. DWDonni Wiggins51:23

        Like, "What's all this laughter? You have a daughter. You don't have any money. You're about to lose your home." And I remember saying to my mom, "Nothing-- I'm not gonna be able to save anything by being sad, crying, and depressed. I have to be in control of the piece of me that keeps me going," right? And so a few weeks later, the bank contacted me to orchestrate a short sale on my home, and my daughter and I go over to show this family, uh, to let this realtor in with this family. And my daughter had this custom bedroom. It's pink, it's purple, it's Disney princess, it's all the things. It's gorgeous, and she was so proud of this bedroom. All of her friends would come over and sleep over. The bedroom was really the talk of my whole house, right? The bank sends this family in, and we get to my daughter's bedroom, and these two children, it's a girl and a boy, they're fighting over who's gonna get her room, in her face, right? And so my daughter is standing there, and she's like seven, eight at the time, and she's standing in the doorframe, and she's just kinda leaning on the doorframe, and she's just looking. And she's not crying or anything, but she's just, like, looking at these kids negotiating the terms of this bedroom in front of her, and I could see the heartbreak or the disappointment. And I had to excuse myself immediately, and I went and sat in the staircase of my house, and that was the first time I'd actually cried. And now I'm going through this situation now going on two years. Like, we're, we're here now. We're at the foreclosure state. I've done all the things. It's over with for this house. I hadn't shed one tear. I hadn't had one worry. I just didn't-- It, it wasn't even real to me, but I was so-- I was young enough to know that I could rebuild. And when I saw the, the hurt on my daughter's face and I'm hearing these kids argue over her room, I couldn't take it. I went into the stairwell, and I'm trying to contain myself, and I just put my hands-- and my, my head in my hands, and I- I'm crying. But I'm crying silently. And my daughter comes around, and she notices that I'm gone. She finds me in the stairwell, and she comes, and she sits down next to me, and she puts her hand on my shoulder, and she said, "It's okay, Mommy. You don't have to be sad. I'm okay as long as that boy doesn't get my room." She wanted the girl to get the room.

    15. CJCalum Johnson53:59

        Mm.

    16. DWDonni Wiggins54:00

        In that moment, Calum, I thought that I had done a good job of shielding her from what was really happening. I realized she understood perfectly what was going on. I realized she understood that loss was happening, and I felt like a failure. Everything that was her prized possession at that time was that room And I can't do anything to save it. And not only can I not do anything to save it, I can't even protect her from the people who are about to take it from her.

    17. CJCalum Johnson54:31

        Hmm.

    18. DWDonni Wiggins54:32

        And I looked at my daughter and I said, "Mommy is really sorry. I'm gonna fix this, and we will never experience this again in life." In that moment, my biggest fear, and maybe even my only fear, became my daughter having to look beyond me for an example of what a woman is supposed to be. And I had a stern talk with myself, "Get it together. You are wasting life away, and it's no longer just about you. You have a little girl who looks up to you for everything, looks just like you, wants to be just like you. She relies on you. It's not just you. Like, you have a whole human that you're responsible for, and how dare you start her life off this way? How dare you drag her through this hardship? How dare you rip her of everything that she, that she is proud of right now? You're ripping her of her prized possession, and it's not because you weren't in a position to give her these things." It's not because I was in poverty. I didn't grow up in poverty. I grew up middle class. I discovered poverty on my own, and it was because I had a terrible relationship with money. I, I took everything for granted, and it was that moment that I said [laughs] ... This is where I invented the dumb B conversation. B is a five-letter word. I'll let you guys add that up. And I looked in the mirror and I said, "You're being a dumb B. You don't deserve this little girl, and you don't deserve all of the access and things that God has blessed you with. You haven't, but you can turn this all around, and you can make it better." And I was so thankful that my daughter was young enough as to where I knew that one day this would be a very faint memory for her, and I have worked my whole life to make sure that it is a very faint memory.

    19. CJCalum Johnson56:29

        Hmm. It sounds almost like it was, um... I think about that, that s- that picture and that, and that scene of you, you laughing in, like, your childhood bedroom and, and your mom walks by. It sounds like that moment was almost, um, was like a reality check.

    20. DWDonni Wiggins56:46

        Mm-hmm.

    21. CJCalum Johnson56:46

        Like a deep reality check. Would you say-- I'm, I'm curious because even at the point you're at now in life, just reflecting back on that moment, would you say that you're not who you are now if you hadn't experienced that?

    22. DWDonni Wiggins57:01

        For sure not. No. I'm not who I am today if these things didn't happen. I operate from a place of gratitude every single day. Like, deep gratitude. I have an alarm on my phone that goes off at 8:30 PM Eastern Standard Time every single day to remind me to express gratitude for something that happened current day. Something small. Um, typically, my first post on Instagram every day is a gratitude statement. I'm taking pictures of, like, an outlet and posting it on my stories and saying, "I am grateful for the electricity that comes through this outlet," because I understand, uh, the, the benefits of this electricity. I'm grateful for my fingers. I'm grateful for my ankles to balance on. Um, I wouldn't have the ability to be grateful for small things if I didn't go through a season where small things was all I had, right? I learned how to make a lot out of nothing. During that same time, you know, um, my mom didn't have it at that time either. She was going through her own financial struggles. I didn't communicate honestly with my daughter's father. I didn't let him know how bad I was, it was financially and, you know, we were young. And during that time, I remember, uh, we have a fast food chain here, uh, Wendy's, and my daughter only ate chicken nuggets, right? And Wendy's had this value meal. You could get all these different things for a dollar. I'd go to Wendy's. She'd get five nuggets. I'd get the fries. We'd get a drink. She ate the nuggets. I ate the fries. We split the drink, right?

    23. CJCalum Johnson58:39

        Mm-hmm.

    24. DWDonni Wiggins58:40

        That season allows me to appreciate the lobster and the sushi and the caviar today, right? That season allows me to ride down the street and see someone who I can tell is in real serious need, and it allows my heart to give because I remember being too proud to ask. That season has made me a person where if I recognize a need, you don't have to ask me, right? It's made me selfless. It's made me a servant. It's made me never-- Like, I'm relatable to my audience. I win because I'm relatable. I win because I hadn't-- My no- my, my nose isn't in the air, right?

    25. CJCalum Johnson59:19

        Mm-hmm.

    26. DWDonni Wiggins59:20

        I'm on a pedestal, but not that kind of pedestal, right? I am still very reachable and tangible. I win because people see themselves in me, and I'm not ashamed to share my story. So many people have a similar story. There's really not too much special about my story. We all have lived somewhat of the same life.

    27. CJCalum Johnson59:38

        Hmm.

    28. DWDonni Wiggins59:39

        Just looks different, right? A little different. The difference is I am not ashamed to share, you know? I had a really tough season last year, and people think, you know-- They, they thanked me. I got hundreds of messages where people are just thanking me for being so transparent because they're going through something and they're ashamed, and they think, "Well, she's this high earner and high performer. Of course she wouldn't share these things." But I understand that the reason that God rewards me is because my life is a symbol of hope for people who are scared to speak up. I'll never be scared to speak up. I'll never be scared to share that season of my life because it's just that. It's just a season, and I understand how quickly we can be blessed with things. We can also have things taken away from us, and I stay closely connected to those experiences. They're not far. They're not distant memories for me. I actually went through them, and I'm proud of those seasons because I came out I didn't succumb to those experiences. I am grateful those, for those experiences because I still won, right? I had to go through a couple of peaks and valleys. I had to go up and down and throughout some challenges and obstacles, but at the end of the day, everything is okay. And that's how I live my life. It's gonna be fine. I've been through worse. Whatever's happening right now, I've been through worse. I literally at 18 years old had someone attempt to take my life. I survived. I won. I'm always gonna figure a way out. That's who I am.

    29. CJCalum Johnson1:01:10

        Mm.

    30. DWDonni Wiggins1:01:10

        And not having those experiences wouldn't allow me to have become that person.
12. 1:01:17 – 1:09:24

    Why failures are important

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:01:18

       A couple days ago we, we, we had a call, and I think I even said it to you on the call. I said, "The thing that's remarkable about your story is this ability to bounce back."

    2. DWDonni Wiggins1:01:25

       Yeah.

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:01:26

       And it's interesting, 'cause I think we've had a few people on the show that they have this incredible ability to bounce back. You'll hear these stories of their life, which is like, even as you're, we're sitting here and we're hearing it, it's like heartbreaking to even just hear it. And they've managed to bounce back and build themselves to this level. And I think one of the common traits that I've seen is, [sighs] and, and it's so difficult to do because I think as people we have like a certain level of pride.

    4. DWDonni Wiggins1:01:57

       Mm-hmm.

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:01:58

       And a lot of the times it almost feels like we all put like a mask on to a certain degree.

    6. DWDonni Wiggins1:02:04

       Yeah.

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:02:05

       We go out into the world and we wanna make it seem like we have everything together. You know, I've got these clothes. And, and that's why we perform a lot as people, right? We wear these brands and I drive this car, and I do this and I work this job. It all kind of creates this, this image of who I am. And it's very funny what God does and the universe or whatever you believe in, which is-

    8. DWDonni Wiggins1:02:26

       God, for sure. [laughs]

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:02:29

       God. Which is sometimes you have to be like broken down.

    10. DWDonni Wiggins1:02:32

        Yeah.

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:02:33

        And you get broken down to the point where you're so humble and you're so open-minded that finally you can become the person that you were meant to become.

    12. DWDonni Wiggins1:02:44

        Mm-hmm.

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:02:44

        And it's interesting 'cause even when I, I just listen to you talk about that moment and that promise-

    14. DWDonni Wiggins1:02:52

        Mm-hmm

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:02:52

        ... that you made to your daughter, and I don't know how many years ago is that? 15, 14, 15 years.

    16. DWDonni Wiggins1:03:00

        Mm-hmm.

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:03:01

        I can hear the emotion in your voice still.

    18. DWDonni Wiggins1:03:03

        Yeah.

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:03:04

        It still resonates.

    20. DWDonni Wiggins1:03:06

        Yeah.

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:03:07

        And it's just that it, it's a grounding experience. It set the foundation for everything that happened afterwards.

    22. DWDonni Wiggins1:03:14

        It was my paradigm shift, right? Um, there are people who walk the earth who never identify what their paradigm shift is, and for me, in real time it was the battery in my back that needed to be recharged, and my life has been different ever since that day. It was exactly what I needed to become, and I'm constantly becoming. I, I haven't become. I don't believe that we ever fully become. I believe that life is about being in pursuit of the person, your best self, right? So I'm constantly becoming. But that's what it took for me to really get serious and to start focusing and, uh, to seek mentorship, right? To ask more questions, to take things more seriously. I will never forget that moment, and sometimes we tell these stories and, and you have forgotten, you know, certain parts of those stories are not top of mind. You ask great questions because it brings me back to a place, um, I, I hadn't buried anything. And I, I tell my story so much because I don't want to bury anything. Some- sometimes people are just so hurt and traumatized by their story that they bury it, right? I want you to know that I've survived a life or death situation because there's too many people whose voi- who I impact just through communicating this way that need to hear that. There's somebody right now who is watching this, and they're contemplating it being the end. They're saying that nobody else's life looks this bad. And when they see Donni Wiggins and they're hearing my voice in the background, you know that I'm talking to you, and you know that it gets better. And you look at me and you relate to me. You like it. You're still watching because you relate to me, and you say, "If she can, I can. If she went through what's not quite that bad, if she... Ooh, her story is a little worse, then, then I can." And I will forever, like, I have literally committed my life, my life's work comes in sharing my experiences, and I was taught very differently. I was taught to go through things privately. I was taught to go through things quietly, and that does nothing but bring you mental illness. It doesn't help anybody. It doesn't even help you. It doesn't help anybody for you to suffer silently. I am healed through speaking out.

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:05:38

        Mm.

    24. DWDonni Wiggins1:05:38

        It really brings me healing. I am healed when people tell me how much my story has impacted them. When I was on Facebook in like 2012, I shared this story. There was a 16-year-old girl who was looking, I don't even know why she was following me. I didn't know her. It was God. She, um, was contemplating suicide, and she reached out to me. She sent me a DM, and there was something that I had posted the night before, and she said, "I don't feel loved. I don't feel valuable, and this might be it for me, but I wanted you to know that I read your status." At that time they were called statuses. "I read your status, and even if this is my last day, I wanted you to know that that touched me." I never open DMs from strangers, like messages from strangers, and I don't even know why a 16-year-old girl was following me, but it became my mission that day to find this young lady. I went through all of her friends. I'm reaching out, sending messages to everybody that I could. I found her grandmother and I'm sending messages. I'm just sending messages. And, um, I finally found someone who was a police officer, and I sent him a message, and he didn't know her either, but he was on her friends list. And he said, "I am going to take this picture and run it through every high school database to see if anybody recognizes this girl." And the resource officer from a school recognized her. She was in Denver. A resource officer recognized her, and they sent the authorities to the school. Um, she wasn't there. They sent the authorities to her home. She had taken a bottle of pills. They were able to find this young lady and get her to the hospital to save her life.

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:07:25

        Mm.

    26. DWDonni Wiggins1:07:26

        And her grandmother and her mom reached out to me, and we kept in touch for years. We've lost contact now. My, my old Facebook page has been, um, hacked, d- disabled. But we kept in contact for years. And so Calum, when I think about sharing my story and why I'm so transparent and, and why I'm not concerned about being embarrassed, embarrassment made me millions of dollars, right? Embarrassment changed my life. Embarrassment have a- has allowed me to set my immediate family free. Embarrassment has allowed me to impact so many people. I'll be embarrassed for you. If my embarrassment is what you need to be a better person, so be it. Like, it's fine, right?

    27. CJCalum Johnson1:08:05

        Mm-hmm.

    28. DWDonni Wiggins1:08:07

        But me sharing a story on Facebook that would've been perceived as embarrassing to other people literally put me in position to help save somebody's life.

    29. CJCalum Johnson1:08:15

        Mm.

    30. DWDonni Wiggins1:08:15

        It's bigger than me. And so when I say I have been called to this, it's not about how much money I make. God rewards me for answering the call.
13. 1:09:24 – 1:13:36

    How to find your purpose

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:09:24

       you were, you mentioned earlier your calling and finding your calling. Today you're a, a business coach. You're a business strategist.

    2. DWDonni Wiggins1:09:33

       Mm-hmm.

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:09:33

       You work with entrepreneurs to help them grow their business to six figures and then scale to seven figures. And so I wanna get into it because what is, what is that moment when you realize, "This is my calling. This is where I was meant to be"? Because I think for a lot of people, and I was like this, you have all of these business ideas, and you see people on the internet making money and getting rich in different ways, and you're like, "Okay, maybe I should try the crypto thing."

    4. DWDonni Wiggins1:10:02

       Yeah.

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:10:02

       "And then there's the TikTok thing, and then maybe I should try all this different stuff." You found your calling. Tell me about that moment.

    6. DWDonni Wiggins1:10:10

       My calling doesn't have anything to do with being a business coach.

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:10:13

       Mm-hmm.

    8. DWDonni Wiggins1:10:13

       It's just the vehicle that I use that gives me access and proximity to the people that I'm designed to impact, right?

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:10:20

       Mm-hmm.

    10. DWDonni Wiggins1:10:21

        Um, my calling is in helping people who have forgotten themselves, forgotten their dreams, forgotten how dope they are, how talented and how skilled they are, reminding you that you can still live a life by your own design. My calling is connected to helping people seek abundance and not just settle for the crumbs that you are being given. My, my, my calling is in, in helping people realize that there really are options. You really can get by. Like, it's to help you max, max out on life. Like, that's my calling. That's what I'm in the process of doing. Every single year it gets better and better and better. Even when it's not the best, it's still getting better. My calling is helping everyday people max out on life, and I discovered that that was my calling because no matter what I was doing, selling cars, selling clothes, owning clothing stores, selling real estate, my power was in helping people max out on those experiences. No, you deserve more. Don't settle for this. You are more than that. You can have more. You can be more. You can do more. And those are things that I did even when I didn't have more, even when I wasn't being more, even when I wasn't doing more. Those are things that I would do for free. Those are conversations that I show up for every single day. I have a soul tie to this mission, right? That if I weren't doing it, I would not be fulfilled. When I stopped doing it, when I tried to do crypto-

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:11:56

        Mm

    12. DWDonni Wiggins1:11:56

        ... and I, I convinced myself at one point, "Oh, these stories, like they're just weighing on my spirit. It's too heavy. Let me do something else."

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:12:06

        Yeah.

    14. DWDonni Wiggins1:12:07

        And so I tried crypto and, um, and I tried many things, but I always came back to serving. I always came back to impacting and inspiring and just, you know, just asking God to use me. One of my prayers is that God makes me essential because I believe that me being in- essential to the right people can literally change lives, right?

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:12:32

        Mm-hmm.

    16. DWDonni Wiggins1:12:32

        And so it has nothing to do with being a business coach. That's just what I'm able to monetize. [laughs]

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:12:39

        Mm-hmm.

    18. DWDonni Wiggins1:12:39

        I'm good at it.

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:12:39

        Mm.

    20. DWDonni Wiggins1:12:40

        I am good at building businesses. I've tried so many different things. I've failed, I've won, I've lost, I've learned, I've done all the things, and being a business coach helps me, but if God said, "Do it a different way," I just would.

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:12:51

        Mm.

    22. DWDonni Wiggins1:12:52

        You know?

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:12:52

        Mm.

    24. DWDonni Wiggins1:12:53

        But as long as when you see me you feel like- I can be more

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:12:58

        Mm

    26. DWDonni Wiggins1:12:58

        I can do more. I can have more. As long as that's your perspe- your perspective when you see me, when you see this story, then I'm answering the calling.

    27. CJCalum Johnson1:13:08

        Okay. You know what? I love that, and I, I, I wanna give... I wanna go deeper, and I wanna give people, I wanna give people the practical information that they can leave this conversation with that feeling. And so here's where I, I want to begin. Um, I think I heard you say this on a- another interview that you did. Uh, I obviously watch a lot of your interviews.

    28. DWDonni Wiggins1:13:26

        [laughs]

    29. CJCalum Johnson1:13:26

        Um, you said basically even when in kinda like the origins of s- uh, realizing that you were gonna be a business coach and going all in on it,

14. 1:13:36 – 1:24:21

    How to build a business around your calling

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:13:36

       a lot of the times you would help people, like, find the thing that they were meant to be working on.

    2. DWDonni Wiggins1:13:41

       Yeah.

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:13:41

       Like, they'd be working on one thing, and you'd be like, "Actually, hearing your story and everything that you have going on-

    4. DWDonni Wiggins1:13:46

       Yeah

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:13:46

       ... you're really meant to be doing this thing."

    6. DWDonni Wiggins1:13:47

       Mm-hmm.

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:13:48

       And so here's where my mind goes when I, when I hear that. I think about the person that's sitting at home, maybe they're lying in bed watching it on their laptop or they're, you know, they're watching this on their couch on their TV, and they're working that 9-5 job that they know isn't for them.

    8. DWDonni Wiggins1:14:08

       Mm-hmm.

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:14:09

       Similar to the feeling that you had when you were like, "This isn't what I was meant to do."

    10. DWDonni Wiggins1:14:12

        Mm.

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:14:12

        Like, "God didn't put me here to do this."

    12. DWDonni Wiggins1:14:14

        Mm-hmm.

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:14:15

        But they don't know what they were put here to do.

    14. DWDonni Wiggins1:14:17

        Yeah.

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:14:18

        And so, you know, like, even if, say, that person was your client, and they even have different ideas of potentially what they're meant to do, I'm curious, like, when you go through your process and the way that you work with people and your framework, how is it that people can find the thing that they were meant to do and the customers that they were meant to serve?

    16. DWDonni Wiggins1:14:42

        Mm-hmm.

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:14:42

        Like, what is that practical process of getting to that answer?

    18. DWDonni Wiggins1:14:45

        So the first thing that you have to understand is that it's... [sighs] There's not really a practical process to finding calling, right?

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:14:54

        Mm.

    20. DWDonni Wiggins1:14:54

        Um, sometimes you, it, it's just patience, and I believe that most people find their calling by constantly doing. So if you're unsure, if you want to operate purposefully and you're unsure if you're doing that or what that looks like, just do a bunch of stuff, right? Do a bunch of stuff, and even if they are extremely different industries and extremely different things, you will start connecting dots. You'll start to look at... Like, if, if I'm working with a client, we'll do a couple of things. Number one, um, document a list of all the things that you've done, all the jobs that you've had, all of the extracurricular activities, and then tell me what you loved about all those things. Like, when you worked here, what did you love? When you played that sport, what did you love, right? And you'll start to see some similarities, that it didn't matter if you were bagging groceries or selling planes. I don't know. You saw that you loved serving people. You loved helping people, whatever that looks like. So we start there, right? And I'm like, "Okay. Well, let's do more of that. If you really believe that, um, you're purposefully connected to leading teams and being on t- Let's do- Let's set ourselves up for more than, more of that." Also, ask people. Sometimes your calling is connected to something that you are taking for granted. Mine was. My mom has been telling me since I was three years old that I have a gift for communication, right? And I'm like, "Ah, Mom." [laughs]

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:16:17

        [laughs]

    22. DWDonni Wiggins1:16:17

        You know? And when I was younger, the only thing that people did to leverage communication that I was exposed to was journalism. You were either a TV journalist, or you were an editorial journalist. And I'd look at, you know, the salaries for that and the work that they'd have to do, and, you know, it was, it was a very competitive field. You couldn't just go work in radio or TV or magazines at that time. It was highly competitive. I didn't have enough control over whether I'd get into that industry or not. So when I heard about communication, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm not doing that." And then as I would go on, selling cars, I'm communicating in a way that made me the top salesperson, where people are coming back and leaving reviews about not just their experience with me buying a car but how I have impacted their family forever, right?

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:17:08

        Mm.

    24. DWDonni Wiggins1:17:08

        Conversations. Selling clothes, owning clothing stores. Selling party dresses, and moms are writing stories and, and leaving reviews about the same thing, how I have impacted them, something that I said. And so it was constantly something that I said, something that I said. Okay. Well, what am I saying?

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:17:23

        Mm.

    26. DWDonni Wiggins1:17:23

        What am I saying? I didn't do anything but tell people my story. I didn't do anything but make people feel really good about themselves. I didn't do anything but affirm and highlight and these things. And I'm like, okay, there's something here. And it actually makes me feel really good to do that, and when I can't do that, it makes me not feel, it makes me feel not so good. And so ask people. I would have you send out a text message to five to 10 people who know you. They could know you very well. They could have had limited engagement with you, and say, "Hey, is there something that you notice about me that stands out? Like, if you had to guess my skill set, what would it be?"

    27. CJCalum Johnson1:18:00

        Mm.

    28. DWDonni Wiggins1:18:00

        Right? Another text message or call that you can make is, "If I were to start a business today, what do you think I would start that business doing?"

    29. CJCalum Johnson1:18:09

        Mm.

    30. DWDonni Wiggins1:18:09

        And let's now start looking at the similarities between what outsiders are saying and with what you've identified from past experiences that you love, and let's just start there. Sometimes we're looking for the job title-
15. 1:24:21 – 1:34:36

    How to develop a great offer

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:24:21

       And I think it's kind of a combination of two things, right? You have, you've identified the calling. I then think about the second piece, which is what you spoke about. You said that, uh, "I'm a business coach. I'm a business strategist, but that's just my vehicle."

    2. DWDonni Wiggins1:24:35

       Mm-hmm.

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:24:36

       That's the way that you found that you can give that value-

    4. DWDonni Wiggins1:24:39

       Yeah

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:24:39

       ... to a customer. And so I'm curious, like, the next step in the process. Step one is almost like getting that clarity on what the calling is.

    6. DWDonni Wiggins1:24:49

       Mm-hmm.

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:24:50

       How do you then, when you're working with people, how do you get them to the point that they have an offer, that they have something which is like, "This is going to provide tremendous value-

    8. DWDonni Wiggins1:25:02

       Mm-hmm

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:25:02

       ... to a certain customer"? What is that process?

    10. DWDonni Wiggins1:25:05

        Calum, the answer is always let's try some stuff. Sometimes people can come to me, and they are so unclear. That I'm unclear, right? And it's like, "Okay, let's just start trying some stuff. What do you like? What do you know? Let's start digging into that." Um, but if you have any bit of clarity, it's like, okay, well, I n- I have this information, great. How do you want to share this information? Is it through apparel? Is it through arts and crafts? Is it through coaching and consulting? Is it through courses? Is it through masterminds? What does that look like for you? And so we'll start off with, like, a trial offer. Um, we'll even poll audiences. So go out and find people who would need this result that you-

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:25:44

        Mm-hmm

    12. DWDonni Wiggins1:25:44

        ... are looking for. The first thing, though, is understanding that the result that you offer is valuable. I tell people all the time that many people get stuck in thinking about a business idea because they think they need a complete formula. They think that they have to take people from A to Z, when really if all you can do is take them from A to B, you've got a business. B is the part that they're missing, right? So for example, in my journalis- in, in my journey as a business coach, when I first started, all I did was helped people think of business ideas. I'd say, "Oh, well, based on this conversation, I think you should try to start this kind of business." Some of them would start it, some of them wouldn't. The people who said they, they st- tried it, many of them were successful, right? Well, that was all I knew how to do. I would say, "I don't know how to teach you how to set it up legally. All I know how to do is talk to you and help you figure out what you might be good at, right?"

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:26:35

        Mm.

    14. DWDonni Wiggins1:26:35

        "Try it. If you need help setting this business up, this entity up legally, that's step C. All I sell is A to B," right? And I made six figures selling A to B. Well, now that I'm monetizing that, well, guess what I have to do? I have to eventually legitimize my business and create a business entity. So when I learn how to do it, I'm like, "That's step C."

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:26:59

        Mm.

    16. DWDonni Wiggins1:26:59

        "I can add that to the offer."

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:27:02

        Mm.

    18. DWDonni Wiggins1:27:02

        "Make more money there. Okay, so now we're onto something. Okay, great. Well, you mean to tell me that just because I've established an LLC with the secretary of state, I don't own this brand? Well, what do I have to do to own the brand? Oh, I need a trademark? Okay. Well, let me go through that process." Well, guess what? Now I can teach you how to go and get a trademark.

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:27:22

        Mm.

    20. DWDonni Wiggins1:27:23

        I can add... We're on step D now, and then there's steps along the way. Now I have so many people reaching out to me on social media at this time. This is 10 years ago, 12 years ago. I've got so many people reaching out to me on social media that I cannot service all these clients. I just can't keep answering all these DMs. I need a process. Okay, so let's implement a sales system. I get a website, I get a calendar link. Guess what I can teach you how to do now? Create a sales flow. And now I'm realizing, okay, I'm getting these people, and they're not really doing anything with the information. Well, I'm charging $97, maybe... I read a book that said increase your rate. If you want people to take things seriously, make them pay for it. So I increased the rate to $297. It filtered out so many people who were on my wait list that now I'm talking to $297 mindsets. They're willing to invest, and they're willing to go out and do the work. Well, now I can take you from A to E. I've come up with a business idea. I've created a legal business entity. I've trademarked it. I've created a sales flow and links and now websites. I've increased my process. So now if you're an en- uh, my prices. Now if you're an entrepreneur and you need any of these things, we're working.

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:28:36

        Mm.

    22. DWDonni Wiggins1:28:37

        And you keep going and keep going. We have to disconnect from the notion that you have to know everything about your industry in order to be able to start. Just start. In order to start a successful business, your first step before you can even make a million is to make the first dollar.

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:28:52

        Mm.

    24. DWDonni Wiggins1:28:53

        And you have to have the ability to simply know one step more than somebody else and sell that one step more-

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:29:00

        Mm

    26. DWDonni Wiggins1:29:00

        ... to somebody else.

    27. CJCalum Johnson1:29:01

        Mm. You know, I love that. I remember we had, um, we had a guest come on the show. He's made, like, a few million dollars as a solopreneur.

    28. DWDonni Wiggins1:29:07

        Mm-hmm.

    29. CJCalum Johnson1:29:08

        And very similar to your point, he says, um, "My entire, like, ethos and philosophy when it comes to business is start by solving your own problems-

    30. DWDonni Wiggins1:29:19

        Yes
16. 1:34:36 – 1:39:39

    You must be delusional to get rich!

    1. DWDonni Wiggins1:34:36

       over the place if you have to be. I'm looking at your shirt and it says, "Stay delusional." I just talked about this on a podcast episode. This is the year of delusion. I realize that delusion is a, is a biblical principle. Hmm. Right? It's biblical. Yeah. It's written, right? Um, "As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he." Hmm. That means that we have to think in our hearts so deeply, we have to believe so big, we have to be so strongly committed to an idea that has not happened yet. That's delusion. Making up a story in your head of what's actually true is delusion, and I think that we confuse delusion and psychotic. You need to be very delusional. You need to believe in your mind. You need to see it. You... Before you can hold it in your hands, you gotta see it in your head. Napoleon Hill went and wrote a whole book on that one Bible verse, that, that one principle. Hmm. "As a man thinketh." Hmm. Think and grow rich. People who have done wildly successful stuff, they're leaving the breadcrumbs, but nobody wants the philosophy. Everybody wants the five steps. I've given philosophy this whole conversation, but people are still saying, "Yeah, but how'd she do it?" I just told you. Hmm. This is the year of delusion. It's time for me now to get to my next goal, and I am delusional. I am already walking around as an eight-figure earner. You can't tell me I'm not. Who are you to tell me that I'm not? I am already walking around as a powerhouse leader with my lights on my office. Like, I walk into... I just built this, a podcast studio in my apartment. I have a two-bedroom apartment, and I had the audacity to put a high-level podcast in that second bedroom, and when I walk in that bedroom, I'm not walking in my guest room. I'm walking into my empire. It's full of motivation. It's a mood. It's a vibe. It's exactly what I need. If I had a, a big building that was just all mine, it would be the same way. I am honoring where I am today. You wanna know how I did it? This is how I do it. When I leave my bedroom and then I walk down that hall on the other side of that apartment and I walk in that room, I'm clocked in. I'm clocked in, and because that's my mindset, I work like I'm always clocked in, but my energy always feels like a vacation. Hmm. Right? Yeah. And these are the steps. This is how you get to fulfillment, honoring and respecting the process and taking note on yourself along the way. This is your year of delusion. Yeah. Start thinking it. You need to be a six-figure entrepreneur. Start showing up as her or him. What does that look like? Find somebody that you admire and say, "Okay," because that's the answer, too. The answer doesn't always present itself in your thoughts. We know that that doesn't happen. We can think about it all day. Sometimes we need to actually connect with someone who's already doing something that we admire. Okay, what do I like about Donni? What do I like about Calum? Let me actually pull pen and paper out, because you write it and you make it plain. Delusion.

    2. CJCalum Johnson1:37:39

       Mm.

    3. DWDonni Wiggins1:37:39

       Just because I wrote it, it becomes cl- well, that's what the Word said. I didn't come up with that. You write it and you make it plain. What do I like about Donni? What do I like about Calum? Well, what characteristics do they display? Do I display these characteristics? No, not yet. Let me become that. Let me dress like that. Let me do my makeup, too. Let me present myself this way. Let me ask questions the way that Calum asks questions. Let me be as inquisitive as he is. Let me be a great listener like he is. You will find out so much about yourself by just being silent and observing other people, observing yourself, believing it. Tell yourself every single day, "I am a six-figure earner. I walk into my home. This is my estate. I live the dream life. I've done all the things. This is what..." But you have to connect the feeling. It's not just about saying it. It's going to feel awkward at first. Oh, I'm an eight-figure earner. I don't believe that, not at first. But what's gonna happen is, as I start to observe other eight-figure earners, and I'm looking at them and I'm saying, "Okay, this is how they show up. Oh. Oh, they're waking up at 5:00 AM. Well, as a seven-figure earner, my day didn't start until 10:00 AM. Let me wake up a little earlier. Oh, you mean eight-figure earners have routines? Let me start establishing a routine. Oh, you mean they're attending conferences and they're learning? Okay. Oh, eight-figure earners are a part of private country clubs? Well, I'll join one." And now, when I tell myself that I am an eight-figure earner because I've taken the steps to model that behavior, I'm believing it just a little bit more. I'm believing it just a little bit more. And when I'm believing that a little bit more, I'm believing more in my talent, my skillsets, my ability. Now that transitions into what I'm offering to the marketplace. What do I sell? Who do I sell it to? What do I charge? But because I'm believing on a different level, these things are now starting to fall into place. And the right effort happening consistently has to produce the result that you're looking for.

    4. CJCalum Johnson1:39:36

       Mm.

    5. DWDonni Wiggins1:39:37

       Y- it just has to.

    6. CJCalum Johnson1:39:38

       Mm.

17. 1:39:39 – 1:51:45

    Become the person you aspire to be RIGHT NOW

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:39:39

       You know what? Th- there's this, um, it reminds me of this quote that I love, which is, uh, "Success leaves clues."

    2. DWDonni Wiggins1:39:44

       Period.

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:39:45

       And so we live in this, like, beautiful age and, and space in time with social media where, like, people who have achieved incredible things, and even if you just think about, like, autobiographies and biographies, that's, like, another thing. But even on social media, you can see what people have done.

    4. DWDonni Wiggins1:40:03

       Yes.

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:40:04

       You can watch their moves.

    6. DWDonni Wiggins1:40:05

       Yeah.

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:40:06

       And it's, it's interesting because this, this T-shirt is, um, it's for our, the apparel brand, like, the merch that we're gonna release for the show soon.

    8. DWDonni Wiggins1:40:15

       I need it. [laughs]

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:40:16

       Uh, we'll get you one. We'll get you one. And the reason, like, it was deeply personal, like, in the design and, like, even thinking about what would the message be, and it was like, you know, when I initially started the show, it was a, to your point earlier, it was an experiment.

    10. DWDonni Wiggins1:40:30

        Mm-hmm.

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:40:30

        I just wanted to see if I could do it. I wanted to see what it would be like. And I fell in love with it, and it became obvious in hindsight that it was, like, a calling, that I love conversation and listening, listening to people. And then we kind of have, you know, I've been doing it for three years, and we go through this period where, like, it wasn't growing that much. And in the last year, we go from, like, 600 subscribers to 125,000 subscribers. And-

    12. DWDonni Wiggins1:40:55

        Congratulations.

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:40:56

        Thank you. And I remember, I'm having a conversation with, um, my business coach, who, she's been coaching me for, like, three and a half years. She was actually the inspiration even for the show.

    14. DWDonni Wiggins1:41:07

        Mm-hmm.

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:41:07

        Like, s- for me starting the show. And I said to her, "You know, I had this goal so long of reaching 100,000 subscribers." And then we got it, and I was like, "What's the next thing?" And it reminds me of, I think for a lot of entrepreneurs, you reach a certain, like, revenue mark, you know?

    16. DWDonni Wiggins1:41:24

        Mm-hmm.

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:41:25

        You might get 100,000, and you're like, "Wow, I never dreamed that I could do this." But then it kind of creates this void because you're like, "What is the next thing?" And I remember she said to me, she goes, "Calum, like, just imagine the person that you want to be. Like, write it down."

    18. DWDonni Wiggins1:41:44

        Mm-hmm.

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:41:44

        "Write down who he is, how he shows up. Like, every part of his life, how is it mapped out? And then just be that person."

    20. DWDonni Wiggins1:41:52

        Yep.

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:41:53

        And I think so often, it was like a, it was like a light bulb moment for me, but so often we put, like, this delay on our lives.

    22. DWDonni Wiggins1:42:01

        Mm-hmm.

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:42:01

        And I realized I was doing that, right?

    24. DWDonni Wiggins1:42:03

        Mm-hmm.

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:42:03

        Like, you think, "Oh, now I need to wait, like, I don't know, 20 years, 30 years before I can be that person."

    26. DWDonni Wiggins1:42:09

        Mm-hmm.

    27. CJCalum Johnson1:42:10

        It's like, no, you can actually just be that person right now.

    28. DWDonni Wiggins1:42:12

        Just be her or him right now.

    29. CJCalum Johnson1:42:14

        And it might look, to your point, in the short term, it might look completely delusional.

    30. DWDonni Wiggins1:42:19

        Mm-hmm.
18. 1:51:45 – 1:55:11

    Your first 6 figures is the most difficult!

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:51:45

       You know what? Here's where I wanted to go next. I was listening to a podcast that you were on, and you were saying the fact that, um, you were talking about making your first 6 figures-

    2. DWDonni Wiggins1:51:56

       Mm-hmm

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:51:56

       ... doing your own business.

    4. DWDonni Wiggins1:51:57

       Mm-hmm.

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:51:57

       And you said that the first 6 figures was the most difficult.

    6. DWDonni Wiggins1:52:01

       Mm-hmm.

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:52:02

       I think you said, like, even in making, getting to, like, a million, the first 6 figures was the most difficult.

    8. DWDonni Wiggins1:52:07

       Yeah, for sure.

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:52:08

       Why, why do you say that?

    10. DWDonni Wiggins1:52:10

        So, um, the first 6 figures is the most difficult because it's really challenging to wake up every single day and have to figure something out that sticks enough to where people wanna pay you over and over and over and over again, right? Your first 6 figures is really your proof of concept stage. Does this work? Is this valuable? Do enough people want it? Is there a big enough marketplace that I can even sell to? Like, there are a lot of variables that you're attempting to put into place. And keep in mind that many entrepreneurs are people who weren't making enough money on their jobs, right? You're in corporate America, and you're making $20 an hour, and it's just not enough. It's not enough, but everywhere you go, you're applying for these jobs, and you're interviewing, and you've got people telling you what you're worth. Well, 6 figures is a stretch away from $20 an hour, right?

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:52:59

        Mm-hmm.

    12. DWDonni Wiggins1:52:59

        And so now it's you against you. Can I do this? Do I have a viable product or service? Are there enough people that need this product or service that will actually pay me? Do I have a voice that will stand out? Can I market this? Can I reach who I need to reach in order to get this done? You're really testing all of that, and so that's more challenging for me than it was to do 7 figures, because 7 figures is simply you scaling what you did to get to 6. But 6, you hadn't done too much yet, right?

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:53:31

        Mm-hmm.

    14. DWDonni Wiggins1:53:31

        You hadn't done a whole lot. You're still in the proof of concept stage, so you're very carefully crafting this business model. That's a lot of trial and error. You don't really have a whole lot of data. Also, when you're not yet making 6 figures, you, you don't usually have a lot of money to reinvest back into the business.

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:53:50

        Mm-hmm.

    16. DWDonni Wiggins1:53:50

        Many of us are living off of this money, right? So you don't have the marketing to put the money to put back into marketing, the money to put into team. So at that stage, you're really a solopreneur. You're wearing all the hats. It's like-

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:54:01

        Wow

    18. DWDonni Wiggins1:54:01

        ... "Hey, I'm the operations director, but also the marketing director. You got a human resources issue? That's me. And you know what? You're also the team member with the issue."

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:54:09

        Mm.

    20. DWDonni Wiggins1:54:09

        So at that level, you don't have access to a whole lot of resources. You're really being very, very careful with what you're offering, who you're offering it to, and what you're doing with the revenue that's coming in. Whereas once you're on your trajectory for 7 figures, you've got access to a little bit more capital. You've got some data. You understand what works. You understand more of who it works to. And now, typically, we just have to scale a couple of things. Maybe we have to put, uh, some systems and processes and workflows in place in order to take that 6 figures to 7 figures. Maybe it's about team. Maybe it's about, uh, frameworks. Maybe it's about, uh, now studying data and realizing, like, "Okay, we got the 6 figures not really looking at data, but now we have the ability to study some data. And I see that this works, but this doesn't work, and this actually costs me more money. Let me do this that doesn't cost as much money that yields a higher result." Maybe it's about you learning how to hire team and be a good leader and be a manager of people, right? Um, and, and that's the difference. The 7-figure build, you've already got something to work with.

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:55:10

        Mm.

19. 1:55:11 – 1:59:21

    The “Alex Hormozi” rule to make 6 figures easily.

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:55:11

       You know what? This, this is exactly what you said. You said, "The first $100,000 for me was much harder to make than my first million. At $100,000, I was trying everything."

    2. DWDonni Wiggins1:55:20

       Yeah.

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:55:20

       "I was adding offers. I was taking offers away."

    4. DWDonni Wiggins1:55:22

       Mm-hmm.

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:55:23

       "And I just want to give it to you based on what I actually did."

    6. DWDonni Wiggins1:55:25

       Mm-hmm.

    7. CJCalum Johnson1:55:26

       "For me to get to 6 fig- 6 figures, it happened as soon as I focused on one thing."

    8. DWDonni Wiggins1:55:32

       Yeah.

    9. CJCalum Johnson1:55:32

       And that quote actually reminded me of something that I heard, um, Alex Hormozi say. Um, he said-

    10. DWDonni Wiggins1:55:39

        Come on, Donni Wiggins sounding like Alex Hormozi.

    11. CJCalum Johnson1:55:42

        I know. Is that exciting? That's-

    12. DWDonni Wiggins1:55:42

        Let's do it. Now I know that 8 figures is possible if I'm sounding like Alex.

    13. CJCalum Johnson1:55:47

        You're already on the way there.

    14. DWDonni Wiggins1:55:48

        I like that. Tell me more. Tell me more. I'm already sounding like 8 figures.

    15. CJCalum Johnson1:55:50

        Yeah, I know.

    16. DWDonni Wiggins1:55:51

        Okay, go back. Say what you were saying. [laughs]

    17. CJCalum Johnson1:55:53

        Well, Alex Hormozi, he, what he said, he said, "Getting to 6 figures is simple." All you have to do to make your first six figures is one channel, one product-

    18. DWDonni Wiggins1:56:04

        Mm-hmm

    19. CJCalum Johnson1:56:04

        ... one avatar.

    20. DWDonni Wiggins1:56:05

        Yeah.

    21. CJCalum Johnson1:56:06

        And I, I love that because it makes it so simple.

    22. DWDonni Wiggins1:56:09

        Yeah.

    23. CJCalum Johnson1:56:09

        It's one channel, which is one marketing channel-

    24. DWDonni Wiggins1:56:12

        Mm-hmm

    25. CJCalum Johnson1:56:12

        ... so your Instagram or whatever it is. One product, like one offer that you have, and then one avatar, which is, who's the customer?

    26. DWDonni Wiggins1:56:19

        Yep.

    27. CJCalum Johnson1:56:20

        And I think so much of the time, and it's funny, right? When we're starting out, and I did this with the podcast, you wanna do everything.

    28. DWDonni Wiggins1:56:27

        Yes.

    29. CJCalum Johnson1:56:27

        Every offer.

    30. DWDonni Wiggins1:56:28

        Yeah.
20. 1:59:21 – 2:02:02

    The REAL Way to build multiple income streams

    1. CJCalum Johnson1:59:21

       you know what? I wanna go from six figures to seven figures, and it's, uh... I was watching this video, and I love the way she broke it down. She said, "If you wanna know how to make a million dollars," she said, "That's one payment of a million dollars, or it's 10 payments of 100,000."

    2. DWDonni Wiggins1:59:39

       Mm-hmm.

    3. CJCalum Johnson1:59:39

       "20 payments of 50,000, 40 payments of 25,000, 100 payments of 10,000." And one of the things that it reminded me of, earlier on you spoke about being, uh, in the past, you were the queen of multi-stream or the queen of seven streams.

    4. DWDonni Wiggins1:59:56

       Multiple streams of income.

    5. CJCalum Johnson1:59:57

       Yeah.

    6. DWDonni Wiggins1:59:57

       Queen of multiple streams, yes.

    7. CJCalum Johnson2:00:00

       And, um, this idea, and I saw this, there was a quote actually, when there was, like, a certain moment for you where you had this realization that, you know, a lot of the times we're told that successful people have seven streams of income.

    8. DWDonni Wiggins2:00:18

       Mm-hmm.

    9. CJCalum Johnson2:00:18

       And so a lot of people take that to mean seven streams of unrelated income.

    10. DWDonni Wiggins2:00:24

        Right.

    11. CJCalum Johnson2:00:25

        Can... You can probably say it actually better than me. Can you just explain-

    12. DWDonni Wiggins2:00:29

        Yeah

    13. CJCalum Johnson2:00:29

        ... that realization and what that means?

    14. DWDonni Wiggins2:00:30

        Yeah. So most successful do, people do have 7 to 16 streams of income, but it's not seven different businesses, seven different jobs, you know, seven different unrelated ideas. Typically, it's people who are learning to diversify their income. So I make a lot of money in being a business coach. Well, what can I do with that money? How can I make that money work for me? So does that mean investing in the stock market? Does that mean investing in real estate? Does that mean hiring a money manager that can, uh, you know, invest my money for me? What does it mean to make my money grow? And you want your money growing seven different stream, uh, seven different ways minimally, but that doesn't mean in ways that you have to actually show up and work for. Your attention still needs to be focused on the main thing, right? But maybe you are casually, uh, purchasing properties, right? You purchase this property. Your realtor brings you a nice idea for a property. You purchase it, and then you employ property managers who actually do that for you. You're not walking around collecting rent. You're, you're not going into these properties and doing the maintenance and the reconstructing and rehabbing yourself. You've, you've letting your money work for you, right? You're investing in s- into some other things. Maybe you're buying into other businesses. Maybe you're sitting and you're consulting for other companies, right? That's one of the ways that I appreciate, um, diversifying my portfolio right now. Maybe you are investing in crypto and all the things. Who knows? But you are putting your money to work for you without necessarily you having to work for it.

    15. CJCalum Johnson2:02:01

        Mm.

21. 2:02:02 – 2:12:55

    How Donni made her first million dollars

    1. CJCalum Johnson2:02:02

       You remember that first moment where you made seven figures?

    2. DWDonni Wiggins2:02:05

       I do.

    3. CJCalum Johnson2:02:06

       Is it like a vivid memory for you? Like, is it like something that is meaningful, or it kinda just, it just passed by?

    4. DWDonni Wiggins2:02:14

       Both. [laughs]

    5. CJCalum Johnson2:02:16

       Mm.

    6. DWDonni Wiggins2:02:16

       It was meaningful then. I mean, every part of my journey is meaningful. I'll, I'll never say that it's not, but has it passed by at this point? Yeah.

    7. CJCalum Johnson2:02:24

       Mm.

    8. DWDonni Wiggins2:02:24

       It's passed by. I mean, we've done it a few times now, right? Number one, but also the moment that I made my first 7 figures, I became, I celebrated. I did have a small win. I remember when my Stripe account showed a million dollars. I screenshot a text to my mom. Um, I screenshot a text to some close friends. Uh, I called my business partner, because we were holding each other accountable along the way. We made a decision in February of 2021 on our podcast that we would make 7 figures, right? And then we became super intentional about holding each other accountable. Even then, we were still multitasking, even though we thought we were not. We thought we had streamlined down all the way, and we realized that we had to streamline down even more. And so David would call me, and I would call him. He's like, "Hey, did you reach your goal today? Did you do that?" And so that was in February of 2021 when it started. By July or August of that year, David made his 7 figures, and I turned up. I said, "All right."

    9. CJCalum Johnson2:03:22

       [laughs]

    10. DWDonni Wiggins2:03:22

        "I'm not doing it."

    11. CJCalum Johnson2:03:23

        We can't have this.

    12. DWDonni Wiggins2:03:24

        I'm, we're not-

    13. CJCalum Johnson2:03:25

        [laughs]

    14. DWDonni Wiggins2:03:25

        We're... No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no.

    15. CJCalum Johnson2:03:28

        [laughs]

    16. DWDonni Wiggins2:03:28

        We're not doing that. And so then later by, like, October or November that year, I hit mine, and it was believable because there's a journey to 7 figures. First you have to hit 100,000, and then 3, and then 5, and then 7, and I remember I had a $100,000 day. This happened in November. November of that year, I had my first 6-figure day, and that took me over the hump, right? And I'm like, "Okay, we're onto something." And by the end of that month, I made 7 figures, and then in the following year, I started off that January making $275,000, right? And that's when I knew, "Okay, I can do this now. I've, I've got a framework. I can just keep doing this over and over and over again." Doesn't quite work like that, but in my mind, that's what I was believing, and there's a journey, you know, to it, and to that, and to maintaining that. So once I made 7 figures, if I'm being totally honest, my mind went to, because I did it at the end of the year, the calendar reset soon after. My mind was, "Can I do this again?" Oh, to see your merchant account start back over at zero-

    17. CJCalum Johnson2:04:45

        Mm

    18. DWDonni Wiggins2:04:46

        ... is one of the scariest feelings for an entrepreneur. It is scary. It is nauseating because you know what it looks like and how slowly, for some of us, those numbers climb up. But then in January, when I made my first multiple 6-figure day, um, for me, it was like assurance of, it was reassurance, like, "You can do this. You can really do this." But you know what I did, Calum? I took my foot off the brake.

    19. CJCalum Johnson2:05:16

        Mm.

    20. DWDonni Wiggins2:05:17

        I said, "Ugh, if I can make 275, there's no rush." [laughs]

    21. CJCalum Johnson2:05:21

        Mm.

    22. DWDonni Wiggins2:05:22

        There's, there's no rush.

    23. CJCalum Johnson2:05:24

        Yeah.

    24. DWDonni Wiggins2:05:24

        Um, it wasn't even impressive, honestly. I don't even know that I shared that with many people because by the time I figured out how to make 275,000, it was 225,000. By the time I made 225,000 in a day, I had friends who were celebrating having a $9 million day.

    25. CJCalum Johnson2:05:40

        Wow.

    26. DWDonni Wiggins2:05:40

        So my two s- my 225 was like, "Huh, I'm late to the party."

    27. CJCalum Johnson2:05:46

        [laughs]

    28. DWDonni Wiggins2:05:46

        "I am late to the party." And that's why you have to stay, like, you have to stay inspired by your net worth, but you can't compare.

    29. CJCalum Johnson2:05:54

        Mm-hmm.

    30. DWDonni Wiggins2:05:54

        Like, we've got these friendly competitions, you know, and so I'm not playing the comparison game, but it definitely felt like I was late to the party. And so I said, "Let me move the pieces around and try to do this differently," and I actually started going backwards.
22. 2:12:55 – 2:17:21

    MOM= Real life hero.

    1. DWDonni Wiggins2:12:55

       be here

    2. CJCalum Johnson2:12:55

       ... but y- you know what, it was, um, I remember I, I ... 'Cause I've had an interesting relationship with my mom, and now she's probably the closest person to me, and my appreciation of her really changed when I fully embraced her and appreciated her as a human.

    3. DWDonni Wiggins2:13:14

       Mm-hmm.

    4. CJCalum Johnson2:13:16

       Because before that time, I saw her as just, like, this superhero, the everything that she could do. And I think, I, I think one of the things that is meaningful, 'cause there's certain things that even in my story and my story with her, like, things happened, and I know that she's not necessarily, like, the proudest of it. Neither am I of certain things that I did. But it's like that, I wanted to give her that appreciation of, like, you did an incredible job.

    5. DWDonni Wiggins2:13:46

       Yeah.

    6. CJCalum Johnson2:13:47

       You did an incredible job, and the things that, like, the missteps, you're a human being.

    7. DWDonni Wiggins2:13:52

       Mm-hmm.

    8. CJCalum Johnson2:13:53

       And so I also want you to feel that as well.

    9. DWDonni Wiggins2:13:57

       Yeah.

    10. CJCalum Johnson2:13:57

        Because I think that you've done so much.

    11. DWDonni Wiggins2:13:59

        Mm-hmm.

    12. CJCalum Johnson2:14:00

        Um, and yeah, and you're in a spot which is, like, I can just tell from the conversation that we've had and the energy of it that you're in a really great spot, so.

    13. DWDonni Wiggins2:14:09

        I am now, but that's hard work, and that's why I reward my daughter so much because in the thick of it- In real time when all these things were happening, one thing I always give her credit for is she let me be a human. To her, I wasn't a failure. It was just to me.

    14. CJCalum Johnson2:14:25

        Mm.

    15. DWDonni Wiggins2:14:25

        But I was always a superhero to her. I was always mommy to her.

    16. CJCalum Johnson2:14:30

        Mm.

    17. DWDonni Wiggins2:14:30

        And in those moments she never made me feel bad for it. She didn't stomp her feet and say, "I don't get to do this." My daughter has been a rider and that's why she gets what she gets from me today, right? Now, you know, that comes with responsibility and all the things, but I don't owe it to her because she's made me feel bad, I just owe it to her because she should've had a different experience.

    18. CJCalum Johnson2:14:54

        Mm.

    19. DWDonni Wiggins2:14:55

        I owe it to her because I chose hardship, not because cha- hardship chose me.

    20. CJCalum Johnson2:15:00

        Mm.

    21. DWDonni Wiggins2:15:00

        And so we are working now and we're setting her up, and her life will be easier at the age that I experienced all those things. She's traveling and she's living. She's got her own high-rise condo apartment. She works with me and, um, I'm just here. If I can be an example to complete strangers and give them chance after chance after chance, you better believe I'm gonna be an example to my daughter-

    22. CJCalum Johnson2:15:23

        Mm

    23. DWDonni Wiggins2:15:23

        ... and do the very, very same thing. But I am a human. I have forgiven myself for poor decisions that I've made. I'm not attached to that trauma in that way anymore. It's just a milestone that when I was in the thick of it, there were things that I wanted to do for my family, including my mother and my daughter, that I am grateful for having the ability to do now. Because when we look at other communities, other races of people, their kids are inheriting millions upon high school graduation. So nobody can convince me that I can't get her a high-rise apartment or employ her and give her her first opportunity. These kids are getting legacies.

    24. CJCalum Johnson2:16:05

        Mm.

    25. DWDonni Wiggins2:16:05

        They have trust funds. I started late. My daughter didn't have a trust fund at the end of high school, but she will have a trust fund that she has availability and access to now. And if other people are doing it, and if we believe that success leaves clues, and we rank last in terms of financial wealth and we're the furthest on the, the, the, the wealth gap im- impacts us the most, then maybe let's do something different. Maybe let's stop being so hard on our kids. Maybe let's stop rushing them out of the house at 17 and 18 years old. Maybe let's hold onto them a little bit longer. Let's look at the reality TV shows and not look at who they're dating, but how they're living.

    26. CJCalum Johnson2:16:46

        Mm.

    27. DWDonni Wiggins2:16:46

        Let's pay attention to the fact that when we were first introduced to the Kardashians, they all lived in the same home. When we were first introduced to s- other wealthy families, they were all living in the same home. Okay, well let's do that. Let's look at what it means for your mom to be so powerful that she can open doors for you. We see it all the time, we're just not doing it.

    28. CJCalum Johnson2:17:05

        Mm.

    29. DWDonni Wiggins2:17:06

        Donni Wiggins is doing it, and that's what I enjoy doing.

    30. CJCalum Johnson2:17:10

        Mm. Donni Wiggins, thank you so much.

Episode duration: 2:17:22