The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant

What the Return-to-Office Debate Gets Wrong | The Curiosity Shop

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant dive into the return‑to‑office debate and argue that most conversations are stuck at the wrong level. Instead of asking “How many days in the office?”, they ask, “What problem are you actually trying to solve?” They explore evidence on hybrid work, weak‑tie innovation, culture and belonging, and why some leaders still cling to “butts in seats” as a proxy for performance. Along the way, they introduce a systems‑thinking “iceberg” tool for getting below the surface of policy fights to the patterns, structures, and mental models driving them. #BrenéBrown #AdamGrant #thecuriosityshop Don't miss a video! Subscribe NOW: https://www.youtube.com/@TheCuriosityShop About The Curiosity Shop: Research professor Brené Brown and organizational psychologist Adam Grant are partnering on a new weekly podcast grounded in an unflinching commitment to learning and unlearning. At a time when public discourse rewards certainty over inquiry, The Curiosity Shop features two of the world's most sought-after experts on connection, change, and leadership making the case for slowing down, asking better questions, and embracing informed complexity over easy answers. Bringing together their left and right brain sensibilities — she’s a qualitative researcher; he’s a quantitative researcher — they explore some of the defining questions of our time, unpack the research reshaping how we live, lead, and love, and dive deep into the ideas, evidence, and cultural moments intriguing them the most. New episodes drop every Thursday. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Connect with The Curiosity Shop: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecuriosityshop/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1730985049 Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/3oEPsPKDhPVoNNL7pH5db6?si=e2483abb4eed4b03 Connect with Brené Brown: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brenebrown/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brenebrown/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brenebrown/ Connect with Adam Grant: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adamgrant/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adammgrant/ X: https://x.com/adammgrant/ ============================= Chapters: 0:00 - What’s Surprising Us About This Podcast? 1:49 - Return to Office 22:06 - Challenging Your Return to Office Mental Model 34:15 - Birth Order 40:18 - Tradeoff Between Authenticity and Editing Show Notes: https://thecuriosityshop.com/podcast/what-the-return-to-office-debate-gets-wrong/ What the Return-to-Office Debate Gets Wrong | The Curiosity Shop https://www.youtube.com/@TheCuriosityShop

Brené BrownhostAdam Granthost

Apr 30, 202646mWatch on YouTube ↗

EPISODE INFO

Released: April 30, 2026
Duration: 46m
Channel: The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant
Watch on YouTube: ▶ Open ↗

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant dive into the return‑to‑office debate and argue that most conversations are stuck at the wrong level. Instead of asking “How many days in the office?”, they ask, “What problem are you actually trying to solve?” They explore evidence on hybrid work, weak‑tie innovation, culture and belonging, and why some leaders still cling to “butts in seats” as a proxy for performance. Along the way, they introduce a systems‑thinking “iceberg” tool for getting below the surface of policy fights to the patterns, structures, and mental models driving them. #BrenéBrown #AdamGrant #thecuriosityshop Don't miss a video! Subscribe NOW: https://www.youtube.com/@TheCuriosityShop About The Curiosity Shop: Research professor Brené Brown and organizational psychologist Adam Grant are partnering on a new weekly podcast grounded in an unflinching commitment to learning and unlearning. At a time when public discourse rewards certainty over inquiry, The Curiosity Shop features two of the world's most sought-after experts on connection, change, and leadership making the case for slowing down, asking better questions, and embracing informed complexity over easy answers. Bringing together their left and right brain sensibilities — she’s a qualitative researcher; he’s a quantitative researcher — they explore some of the defining questions of our time, unpack the research reshaping how we live, lead, and love, and dive deep into the ideas, evidence, and cultural moments intriguing them the most. New episodes drop every Thursday. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Connect with The Curiosity Shop: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecuriosityshop/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1730985049 Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/3oEPsPKDhPVoNNL7pH5db6?si=e2483abb4eed4b03 Connect with Brené Brown: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brenebrown/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brenebrown/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brenebrown/ Connect with Adam Grant: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adamgrant/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adammgrant/ X: https://x.com/adammgrant/ ============================= Chapters: 0:00 - What’s Surprising Us About This Podcast? 1:49 - Return to Office 22:06 - Challenging Your Return to Office Mental Model 34:15 - Birth Order 40:18 - Tradeoff Between Authenticity and Editing Show Notes: https://thecuriosityshop.com/podcast/what-the-return-to-office-debate-gets-wrong/ What the Return-to-Office Debate Gets Wrong | The Curiosity Shop https://www.youtube.com/@TheCuriosityShop

SPEAKERS

Brené Brown
host
Research professor and author known for work on leadership, courage, vulnerability, and organizational culture.
Adam Grant
host
Organizational psychologist and author focused on work, motivation, creativity, and evidence-based management.

EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant, featuring Brené Brown and Adam Grant, What the Return-to-Office Debate Gets Wrong | The Curiosity Shop explores return-to-office debate reframed: hybrid work, mental models, and authenticity choices They review research suggesting hybrid work (1–2 days remote) matches in-office productivity while improving satisfaction and retention, and mandates often fail to improve firm performance.

RELATED EPISODES