The Diary of a CEOAshley Walters: The Unheard TRUTH About Top Boy! "Me & Kano Didn't Have The Greatest Time"
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,045 words- 0:00 – 1:37
Intro
- AWAshley Walters
I was obsessed with the fact that I was gonna die young. (gun shots) I wanted to hurt people the way I was hurt. Some of the things that go through my head scare me. National Award! Artist. I've got 21 seconds to go. Actor. Here we go. Top Boy's in the building. Growing up, had a lot of trauma and it made me angry with the world. My dad was in prison most of my childhood. The local bad boys, they became dads to me and I started to follow in their footsteps. I'm still paying the price for those years now. But once I get in front of a camera, it's not that Ashley anymore. Top Boy. Top Boy. Top Boy. The greatest show that's ever come out of the UK. Light him up. (gun shots) It was crazy. You know, it changed my life. But filming the last season, me and Kane, we didn't have the greatest time. People don't understand, we go hard for that show. We go hard to make sure characters are being represented in the way they should be and we face a lot of resistance. How? The truth is ...
- SBSteven Bartlett
2005, you had rekindled your relationship with your father.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah. And then he died, man. I never realized it would affect me that much. (heartbeat thumping) Took me to some dark places. Making decisions that were gonna come back to haunt me, you know. Um ... Yeah, man. I wanna break down now just talking about it. (instrumental music plays)
- 1:37 – 4:46
😢 Ashley Walters discusses his troubled childhood, trauma, and anger issues, leading to a negative attitude and reckless behavior.
- AWAshley Walters
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ashley, I've got an interesting observation that I wanted to start with.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I ... The way you speak, the way you've been chatting to me before we started rolling, it almost reminds me of someone who has had a bit of therapy. Or has done some work on understanding the f- unobvious subconscious forces that are at play in their life.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And what you've had to delve into, because I think as I- this is often the case with this podcast, I think our, like, earliest context shapes us in a profound way and is something that's quite hard to un-shape ourselves with, undo as we become adults. So, what is that early context that you've, um, you've had to reflect on to understand yourself?
- AWAshley Walters
Ah, man. So where do I start? (laughs) Um, so much. I mean, look, I- I- I s- first of all, I've had a lot of therapy, right? So I've been in a lot of situations where I've been counseled, you know, I've- I've, um, sought help, um, because I needed it, right? Um, had a lot of trauma I guess that- that has kind of stuck with me over my life and think one of the biggest things for me was, um, my dad, really. That's where I stem back to, like, growing up, um, just not having a father figure around, um, and the places that pushed me to. And don't get me wrong, like, a lot of people have gone through that and come out the other side and not been like me, but I dealt with it in, like, a really crazy sort of way, you know? It made me angry. Made me angry with the world. So all throughout my, you know, my So Solid years and my early kind of acting years, um, my attitude towards life and towards other people was very ... I mean, it was wrong, you know? It was quite negative. And I wanted to hurt people the way I was hurt. And sometimes I did, you know? Sometimes I did. It came out in a lot of different ways. Some of the people I cared about, some of the people who were close to me, and some people I didn't know. Random people, but got me into a lot of trouble with the police. Yeah, you know, I just didn't care about myself as a teen growing up. So ... And, look, I had some amazing supportive people around me, like my mum is amazing and I've got an amazing family, but that one niggling thing of kind of being slightly lost about what a man is, um, not feeling like I fit in rooms with other men, you know, ra- in groups of people and stuff like that. Just, like, having this niggling doubt about myself all the time, um, made me quite a difficult person to be around, um, growing up and t- trying to explore that. So yeah, when I ... And I didn't know it was that's why at the time. I
- 4:46 – 11:06
🧠 Walters delves into his therapy experiences and the impact of his absent father on his self-esteem and relationships.
- AWAshley Walters
didn't know it had anything to do with, you know, not having my dad around. Like my dad, when he was around, you know, he was in prison most of my- my childhood growing up. That was like France. He used to say he was in France. So to me and my younger brothers, like, anytime, you know, my mum would be like, "He's in France." Or someone would say he's in France or whatever, that was like code for prison. Didn't know it at the time. It was something I learned later on. But it was, he was in France a lot of times, so (laughs) you know what I mean? It was like ... Um, so there was a few phone conversations and stuff like that with him, but never had him there and then when he would turn up, he would just turn up randomly at my- at my house and stuff. And one thing I always remember is that I always wanted to go with him, right? Because he was a superhero to me. You know, I didn't care as much as the other adults cared about the fact that he was, you know, in and out of my life and what damage that was doing to me and stuff like that. I was just like, "I wanna see my dad. Everyone else has got a dad. Why haven't I got a dad?" You know? "I wanna know my dad." So ... My mum would- I- I gotta give my mum a lot of credit because she would never badmouth him in front of me even though I know that she wanted to, and she would always give me the option. So any time he would come, she was like, "Would you like to go?"And I would obviously go, and then I'd come back crying because something had happened, you know. Like one of the... You know, my dad drank a lot. I remember one time he took me to a party, it was like a family party, it was, like, after a christening or something like that. Um, and he was... He got so drunk and they threw him out. You know, he had a fight with someone in the party and he was... He got thrown out. And I remember having to, like, I, you know... I'm maybe, like, 10, 11 tops, having to carry him home (laughs) literally down the street. Like, carry this guy home, um, to, to my gran's, to his mum's. You know, being chased by the police in the car, you know. Him pushing my head down in the back. I just remember that image of him going like, "Look, keep your head down," (laughs) and stuff like that, and he was getting chased by police. And I laugh about it now. It's more an uneasy laugh that's happening.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- AWAshley Walters
This is not me being, like, proud of any of this. It's just those were my images. Those are my images and memories of, like, being with my dad. But without fail, my mum said, "Do you want to go back?" I'd go back, you know. I wanted a dad. He weren't the best dad, you know, but I wanted someone there and, kind of, eventually when I reali- when I got a bit older and I was, kind of, angry with him for how he treated me, it became, "I'm gonna find other figures." Other dad figures, other role models in my community. Um, so the, you know, the local bad boys, the local dealers, they became dads to me, you know, and I started to, to follow in their footsteps a bit. Do you know what I mean? And, and adopt the same attitude, adopt the same swagger. Um, you know, I think even g- joining So Solid was, was never about music for me in the beginning. It was about belonging. It was about, like... It was the first time, you know, I was part of a gang and there was a lot of older men in there, in that group that looked after me. You know, took care of me and seemingly, at the time, loved me. Do you know what I'm saying? As much as, you know... As far as I was concerned. So, and I spent a lot of years bouncing around like that. The, the, the funny thing is about it, is I was having success throughout this, this... You know, throughout this process. Like, making films and successful TV shows and music and stuff like that. Like... So I guess that I had talent, you know. I had a gift that was shining through but, um, learning how to be a man, I didn't, I didn't get. I didn't know, you know. I thought that was aggression. I thought that was, "Don't take no shit from anyone." Do you know what I mean? "Don't cry. Don't take no shit. Be hard." You know, "Try and stand up for yourself," but emotionally I was incapable of the other stuff that really builds a real picture of what a man is.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Where does the anger come from in that situation of, like, abandonment, needing a father, the father not meeting the expectation that you want him to be. You're... I often hear it with, um, kids, like, who are desperate for your father to, like, be a father.
- AWAshley Walters
Mmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you're, you, you repeatedly give them another chance to be that person and they continue to let you down over and over and over again.
- AWAshley Walters
Mmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And it's funny 'cause I've sat here with, like, child psychologists and Gabor Maté and all of these geniuses that study children at a young age and, um, it's funny how the one thing that Gabor said to me, who's maybe, like, the number one child psychologist in the world said to me. He was like, "Children, in any context, think everything's about them."
- AWAshley Walters
Mmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
"They're narcissists. So if the parents are arguing, they interpret that as something about them."
- AWAshley Walters
Mmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And if they... So y- even in the context of what you've described, your father's behavior there, he almost... He, he's got his own problem, clearly.
- AWAshley Walters
Mmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But you interpret it as meaning something about you.
- AWAshley Walters
Of course, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And wh- and do you under- have you been able to understand what the interpretation was? How you interpreted that situation?
- AWAshley Walters
Um, I, I think... Not in, not in that much detail but I guess, you know, surface-wise, that, that I wasn't good enough. You know, I can only say that because of how I've treated myself. Um, 'cause I never... I, I... Generally, generally I never think I'm good enough-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- AWAshley Walters
... to be doing anything that I'm doing, you know. I always feel like... There's always, like, a sly little bit of me that's like, "They're gonna catch me out next week." Like, "I'm... I shouldn't have this opportunity." You know. I always pl- I'm always going to make the most of it. I'm always going to prove to people that I'm good enough to be here but I'm always... There's always that niggling doubt of what the other person's thinking about me. You know, and, um... And that's something that I'm still working on today. I'm still working on the whole process of understanding, like, um, you know, someone else's opinion of
- 11:06 – 15:32
💔 Walters reflects on his deep desire for his absent father's approval and how it shaped his self-worth and fear of rejection.
- AWAshley Walters
me is none of my business. Do you know what I'm saying?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
Like... And just accepting that, you know, I'm going into a room and if I see people talking in the corner, wondering, "Are they talking about me?" You know. Having those, like, that sort of thought process is tough but I think it stems from, um, rejection. I think it stems from, you know, being abandoned slightly. I mean, I hate to use that word but... Because, you know, my mum, my mum will be upset (laughs) about me using that terminology but... Because she never understood and bless her, you know. Uh, she... My mum's a very intelligent woman but one thing she couldn't understand emotionally was the fact that I still wanted him.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mmm.
- AWAshley Walters
You know, and even, you know, up until he died and after he died, there was loads of moments where I was broken and she would... She was just like, "What is wrong with you?" Like, "Why..." You know. "You d- you didn't really know him like that." Like, "Why are you..." You know, she just didn't get that...Yeah, I just wanted him to be proud, you know? If anything, you know, I'd just love him to see me now. I'd love him to understand, like, who I've become, what I've achieved. I think in the beginning, that was more about, that was like a stick your finger up sort of thing. Like, even without you, I did great, you know. Um, but the reality is, like, the last encounter I had with him was the most beautiful encounter, um, ever. You know? Maybe that I've ever had with any person that I love, like, and he said some things to me that really have stuck with me, you know. Really, and changed my life going forward, but, you know, he didn't, he didn't care. (laughs) He was like... And I mean, he cared about me, but he didn't care about the stuff that I was doing. He was like, "That's meaningless." It's like, you know, all of that can be taken away at any time, you know. "I'm glad you've got a talent, I'm glad you feel fulfilled in, like, what you're trying to achieve in life with your life goals and that, but I wouldn't care if you did that or you didn't. You'd still be my son and I'd still love you as much as I do." And he was always concerned about my fight, my fight for perfection, 'cause I spend a lot of time, like, trying to dig deep to make things perfect, right? And it's only now I know that nothing, nothing can be perfect. There's no such thing, you know. And I think I eventually understood, like, you know, it's not always gonna go my way, right? But I have to be s- slightly more willing to, to adapt, to accept that, um, and when I have been more willing to accept it, um, good things have happened. You know? I gotta be open to it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
He passed away in 2005, right?
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And by that time, you had sort of rekindled your relationship to some degree. I, when I was reading through, I think it's So Solid, um, page 12-
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... you refer to him at that time as a waste of space.
- AWAshley Walters
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Which I guess was a reflection of how you were feeling about him at that time.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah. I mean, it's so funny you bring that book up because I don't even, I won't even read that book.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- AWAshley Walters
I don't even think I've ever read it, if I'm honest with you. And I mean, it, yeah, I mean, there's not that much to read if I'm honest. It's a lot, a lot of pictures. But, um, but yeah, probably that's how, I mean, that's how I felt for a lot of the time. I think those last two weeks when I was in, I was shooting Get Rich or Die Trying, I was in Canada, he forced his way out to come and see me because, you know, he knew how I felt about him and he knew he only had weeks left to live. And he was like, "Look, I have to, I have to come and see you." And he came and he lived with me for those, like, two weeks, and I was already in the process of like... So I had this thing back then that I was gonna die when I was, like, 33. I'd been, it had been something that I said to my mum from a young age, and she was like ra- randomly one day at like 6, 7, you was
- 15:32 – 23:41
🎥 Ashley Walters shares a poignant story about his father's last days, his own obsession with dying young, and the emotional impact of his father's death.
- AWAshley Walters
like, "You're gonna die at 33," or whatever. And she was like, "I don't know where you got that from but you've been obsessed with that." And as an adult, I was obsessed with the fact that I was gonna die young, right? I was, I wasn't gonna survive past that age. So I got someone to start filming me every day and I got a friend to just start documenting my, like, daily life on camera. And when I went to Canada to shoot, I took the camera with me and just said, "Look, I'll, I'll get some, like, some footage myself, um, when you're not, while you're not here." My dad came and I just decided to turn the camera on, so I did. So every night, you know, while he was there, he was like, you know, "Go on, get me some weed." (laughs) This guy had lung cancer, um, could hardly breathe. He was like, "Go and get me some weed," and, you know, I'd get him some drink and stuff like that and we'd be sitting there for hours, like, for hours and hours. And I'd just put the camera down on the table and that and just film him and just ask him the most random questions just about life, like, um, you know, "Where was you?" (laughs) "Where was you at this time, where was you that time?" Whatever. And the guy was like... For context, wh- when I was in prison, I was in prison in, like, 2001, right? And he wrote to me a few times, and it was the first time I understood that my dad was illiterate. Like, he couldn't read or write. So these letters were so, like, it's just fucked up, man. It was just like, I was like, and I had no idea that he had that issue. And I read these letters and I was like, "Wow." So that gave me another level to my hate for him. It was like, "Now you're dumb as well." Like, you know, do you know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
It was like, "Yeah, I really don't like," like, I don't know, so it was evil but it was just another excuse for me not to like him, right?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
Um, so cut back to being in Canada. He, um... I sat down with him and filmed him, and found out that he was one of the most intelligent people I know (laughs) just from being streetwise, just from life experience. Do you get what I'm saying?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
Like, it, it actually burnt me because I didn't want him to know anything. I didn't want him to have anything to really offer me in the end when I delved deeper into who he was as a person, but all the things I was going through with women, with life, with... Do you know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
It was like-He had a wealth of knowledge that he could speak to me about. He couldn't write it down, couldn't really articulate it in the greatest way.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
But just listening to his kind of anecdotal sort of stories and whatever, I got what I needed to get from it and I filmed him kind of going through it. Um, but there was also, like, a huge fear as well, you know. I realized in that moment that he had, he had genuine excuses for being the person he was. I mean, he grew up, didn't have the greatest upbringing, you know. He was in care. He was slightly neglected by his own parents, you know, and, you know, he was the bad kid of the bunch and he just kind of got pushed out, and that kind of led to his life, and things happened, et cetera, et cetera. But I understood it from his point of view when I heard him talk about it and I was like, "Actually, okay, I can see why you would be the person that you are, and actually maybe you did me a favor by not being there too much because who would I be?" You know, would I be the person I am today and, um, but then, you know what, after realizing I, I love this guy (laughs) and I'm enjoying spending time with him, and we were like good friends, and we went to clubs together out there. This guy's like, you know, thin, like wafer thin, like on death's doorstep, and he was making the effort to come out with me and, you know, rave and do all of this stuff. And, um... (laughs) But at night, at bedtime, I s- laid in my bed awake every night just staring at the ceiling thinking, "He's gonna die here." Because he was just coughing all through the night, man. It was like, you know, like he was coughing up his lungs, like... (inhales deeply) I was like, "What if..." (laughs) I was praying that it didn't happen, you know, there. Um... And then d- he died, man. He, like, you know... Left, left, literally got off the plane. They rushed him to hospital 'cause he was, he was going on the plane. They rushed him to hospital. He died, um, whilst I was filming and, you know, it wasn't the best way that I found out. Um... I was filming at the time. I was doing a scene with 50, and it was, like, a really emotional scene, um, outside on location. And... The vibe just changed on set, like, so, you know, in between takes, everyone stopped talking, it was quiet. It was like this. And, like, the producers were just, like, looking at me. And I was like, "Nah." I knew. Do you know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
Something had happened. I knew something was wrong, and they was like, "Look, we're gonna p- take a break. Just go and call home. You need to call home, actually." So I went to my trailer. I called my partner at the time, and she was like, "Sorry, man. I mean, he's gone." So it was, it was tough. It was tough, a tough moment, this tough moment. Um... Yeah, and I was, I was broken. I was broken. I never realized it would affect me that much. It broke me, and, um... Crazy, but the one thing I remember from that moment is I went to my trailer. I broke down. Some of the actors came, like Joy Bryant. She came in and she was just, like, just hugged me, and I was just crying and stuff. And 50 came in and was... (laughs) He won't remember this, and I know it wasn't malice or it was any bad intentions, but he was like, "I'm sorry to hear about your dad." And then just started talking about a scene to someone, you know when someone's like, "Sorry to hear about your dad, man. Anyway," um, rah-rah-rah, whatever, and I was like... You know, talking to him after is like, he's been through some, some shit, you know, that's made him really, like... Um, I hadn't been through anything like that. Not at that point. That was my first real kind of close encounter with death, like, and just having someone that meant so much to me, um, pass away. Um, but my first instinct was, you know, to work, to continue working. I continued working. I flew back for the funeral for literally one day, did the funeral, and then I left. I went back to work. Um, I just plowed through and I didn't grieve, and I haven't.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You haven't?
- AWAshley Walters
I don't think I have. You know, I don't... I don't know what you call it, 'cause even, like, now, I want to break down now just talking about it. I don't know. This is, like, 2005, right? It's, like, 18 years or whatever, so I mean, is that an indication that I haven't dealt with it enough?
- 23:41 – 24:28
😔 Walters hints at unresolved grief and the struggle to cope with his father's loss, even after 18 years.
- AWAshley Walters
You know, I don't know.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The feelings you have towards his, his loss, are they, are they complicated? Are they... Because are there unanswered conversations? Are there... Is there, is there any regrets in there? Is there... What are, w- what were those feelings? 'Cause your mother, as you said, is surp- was surprised by your reaction to his loss.
- AWAshley Walters
From him dying, I lost... I went off the rails a bit. You know, I went off the rails a bit in the sense of...My ego took over and I lost any sort of spiritual connection that I had with
- 24:28 – 27:14
🌌 Ashley Walters believes in the universal law and manifestation, feeling that what he gives, he eventually receives. He attributes his success to this belief.
- AWAshley Walters
life or the universe up until that point. You know, I'm- I'm- I'm never been the most religious person, but I've always been a believer in- in, like, universal law, right? Like in- in if I give, I will get, you know, in the- in the- in the- in the way that things are meant to be. You know, anything that's happened in my life ha- has been manifested in some sort of way. You know, when I wanted to be in So Solid, I knew who So Solid were before they knew who I was, you know? And I was- I made a- I looked in the mirror one day and said, "I'm going to be in that group." You know? And that was- I was a little boy on the streets workin' out ways to- to be, and the universe con- constantly bringing people around my situation that was connected to that situation that was bridging the gap for me, you know? So I- I only had to be, I only had to focus and believe or whatever. So I believe in all that- all that stuff, but when it come to- when my dad passed, I, like- I lost a lot of that- those beliefs. I lost a lot of that understanding and I became slightly, like... yeah, just lost, you know? Lost. I was... you know, I drank more, I, you know- I- I did, I- I cared less about myself, about where I was goin' and about, you know, what I wanted in life and stuff. And, um... yeah, that led me on a d- on a different- a different sort of journey, you know? Um... took me to some dark places, if I'm honest.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Dark places?
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah, man. Just like... like, definitely not makin' decisions, purposely makin' decisions in life that were gonna come back to haunt me, you know? Um... look, I mean, a big thing for me was, like... my relationship at the time. Um... I gave up on. You know, I gave up on it. Um... I became quite, like, promiscuous. You know, I abused the- the- the celebrity that I had. You know,
- 27:14 – 32:28
🚀 Ashley admits to abusing his celebrity status, making reckless decisions, and hurting his first partner, resulting in two children. He acknowledges his past ego-centric behavior.
- AWAshley Walters
like, I- I gave into the- the temptation that was around me a lot more. Um... you know, and I really hurt my- my first partner, um, by being that person. And actually, that resulted in- in- in me having two kids out of my relationship, you know? So two of my children, who I love dearly, um... you know, came from- from that situation. But I think that was, like, a- a big part of my, like... you know, my reckless, sort of rebellious, sort of attitude. And I- I- I mean, I- the only way I can put it is that I- I became- I came before everyone at that point. You know, me and my ego and, like, the world revolved around me. And I think before that point, even though I did have moments of being quite wayward and whatever, I was still, um... caring, loving Ashley. You know? That's how I- that's how I grew up. Um... but yeah, I definitely came out my box (laughs) from that point on. Um, and I- I guess to me, at the time, it was like... you only live once, you know? I don't fear anyone. Whatever happens, happens. It was that whole thing that was goin' on. But, um... now I'm still- still payin' the price for those- those years now.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I think this is fascinating. I looked at the backend of our YouTube channel, and it says that since this channel started, 69.9% of you that watch it frequently haven't yet hit the subscribe button. So I have a favor to ask you. If you've ever watched this channel and enjoyed the content, if you're enjoying this episode right now, please can I ask a small favor? Please hit the subscribe button. Helps this channel more than I can explain. And I promise, if you do that, to return the favor, we will make this show better and better and better and better and better. That's a promise I'm willing to make to you if you hit the subscribe button. Do we have a deal? Those tapes.
- AWAshley Walters
Hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Have you still got them?
- AWAshley Walters
(sighs) It's another upsetting story, man. Like... so I set up a production company, me and a- a good friend of mine at the time, but... I was a nightmare to deal with. You know, the- the demons were there and I've- I di- I di- I didn't give 100% into this company at all, so, like, a lot of the weight was left on them to kind of hold it up. And then I think this person, this guy, was goin' through his own troubles as well at the time with his dad and his family and stuff. So... you know, it was a disaster in the end, but either way, you know, we had an archive of footage that we created from filmin', that we never knew what we was gonna use it for, but all the stuff I filmed, m- my dad, went into this archive. Um, and when the company actually was dissolved and, you know, we fe- we kinda fell out at that point-He took all the tapes and the footage. And for how many years now, I've been asking to get it back because we don't speak, you know. But for maybe 10 years now, I've been trying to send messages through people I know know him and stuff like that. And I've just had no response, you know. And the last thing I want to do is go into some legal sort of battle for it or whatever. But it's the last, you know... The other stuff, I can let go. But the stuff with my dad, like, it's the last things I've got. I don't have pictures of him, like, you know. I n- I don't have, like, family portraits and anything like that. All I h- really have is those, those tapes, and they're like, they're like my, um... Do you know that movie, um, Things to do in Denver When You're Dead?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. (laughs)
- AWAshley Walters
(laughs) They're like... You know, it's like that to me. It's like gold dust. It's like I can, I could probably watch those tapes and it could probably help me through a lot of tough times that I face now. Or maybe even my kids, you know, maybe even, um, help the boys somehow. So it'd be nice to get them back. It's- it's- it's really sad. It's, like, it's hurtful, man, you know? And I hope one day I can resolve that situation.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you even know if that person still has them?
- AWAshley Walters
Do you know what? I mean, I could be sitting there with the... you know, thinking that he has them, but he might not. But I'm pretty sure he does, pretty sure.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That last two weeks with your father before he passed away-
- AWAshley Walters
Hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, my first question is did you, did you know he was gonna pass away soon?
- AWAshley Walters
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And, um, what did you take from that, those two weeks of sitting with him and asking? What is the... What did you walk away with that you didn't have in that moment? You knew he was much more intelligent than you ever knew.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But the- the- the lessons you speak of that you've- that have stayed with you ever since and that have seemingly guided you, what were those lessons?
- AWAshley Walters
I knew he was gonna pass away. Um, I hadn't accepted it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- AWAshley Walters
You know, but it was obvious that he was going
- 32:28 – 37:45
🧡 Ashley reflects on the last two weeks with his father before he passed away, gaining a better understanding of himself and his father's impact on him.
- AWAshley Walters
to die, right? It was obvious. Um, lessons, um, I think is... I got from it what I n- what I... One of the key things I needed and I think one of the key things you need from knowing your dad is knowing where you come from. I think that's such a... It's just such a key point in being a dad. Like, if my son can look at me, I can look at my son and kind of... He knows who I am. He knows where I came from. He knows what my values are, you know, what I expect of him and stuff like that. Then I think it makes him, it easier for him going out there-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
... to be just a person, to be ju- a human being. When you're, when you're constantly looking for that reference point, right-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
... you're lost. You know, and, and when I s- spent those two weeks with him, I kind of got a better understanding of, "Oh, okay, this is why I do that funny thing with my eye when..." You know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
I'm- I'm lying or... (laughs) "This is why I feel this way at this point." And, you know, he was powerful as a man. He didn't have anything. Didn't have anything, but he oozed some sort of confidence and charm, right, that you can't buy. Like... (laughs) You know what I mean? Um, and I felt that and I saw that in him, and it- it made me understand about... I should feel more like that by myself. Do you know what I mean? I should feel more powerful. Look, you don't have to be a dickhead, you know, when you're... You know, when you're confident. Doesn't have to come across that way. But he had, he had that, like, that level of confidence with like a... uh, some beautiful sort of humility that went with it. But, you know... And that was my dad. That was my dad. So it made me know that I can be that person, you know, that I don't need to doubt myself as much as I do. Um, and he stripped away from me. He constantly, in that little time I spent with him, he stripped away all the... Because I was, like, hiding myself in success. "I've got this, I've got this watch, I've got this car, this coat, and staying in this apartment," and this and that or whatever.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
And he didn't give a shit about any of that. And I don't know whether he was doing it on purpose, but he genuinely was like, "Well, I mean, it's- it's good." (laughs) You know what I mean? But... And he- he- he- he- he knew a lot m- more about me than I thought he did. So he paid attention somehow. Um, but I- I walked away from that meeting, that encounter knowing that he loved me and knowing that he was proud of me, you know. He was proud. Um, and that was good enough.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What would you say to him if he was listening now?
- AWAshley Walters
Um, I think I- I didn't tell him thank you. No, I- I hope he didn't get on that plane feeling like... You know, feeling like I was still unhappy with him because I treated him quite bad, you know, especially when, I mean, when he was going through his cancer. When he told me he had cancer, I was just like-... whatever. Like, I don't even believe you. You're probably just saying it for me, 'cause you want me to talk to you. You know? That's how I... That was my attitude towards, towards him in that period of time. That's how much anger I was holding, so... You know, I let go of a lot of that whilst we was together. But I do wonder if there was any doubt in his mind when he left. You know? Because I couldn't... You know, this is not like I was, like, you know, all over him and touchy-feely and kissing him and-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
... you know, rubbing him and stroking him and stuff. I still kept a bit of a, you know, a toughness about it, like, "I'm not gonna let you in like that." You know? But I do, I do hope that he could read between the lines and know that I'd softened slightly and, like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
... let him in a bit.
- SBSteven Bartlett
If he could see all the success you've had now-
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... what do you reckon he'd think? All that you've done?
- AWAshley Walters
He'd probably try and tell me, like, you know... (laughs) He'd be like, "You're not doing this right, you're not doing that right." (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- AWAshley Walters
"You could improve in this area or in that area," and whatever. But, uh, we'd probably butt heads about it. But, you know, that'd be all good. I'd, I'd take that now. In hindsight, I'd take... You know what I mean? I'd, I'd take it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
He'd try and be your
- 37:45 – 47:02
🎭 Ashley attributes his success to his charm, people skills, humility, and maintaining good relationships within the entertainment industry.
- SBSteven Bartlett
dad. That's what dads do, right?
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's it. Yeah. That's it. And-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah. Mums do the same.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah. Some of... I, I do envy some of my f- friends that I know, like have got really good relationships with their dads and, you know, their dads have looked over their contracts and stuff like that. Do you know what I mean? Have been a major part of their life. You know, I'm determined to do that for my, my kids if they ever need it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
In hindsight though, we, we look at the, some of the most difficult things we've been through and, and overcome and we understand the correlation that has with the better things about us or the things that we're proud of. Like, there's often a surprising link between the worst thing that's happened to us or the, the worst trauma we've had and the best thing that's happened to us. And as I was listening to all of that, you know, you used this word talent at the very beginning. You said I must have had, just had a talent. But I'm not necessarily sure what you mean by talent, because, um, you grew up with an ability to have, um, that talent in multiple areas. You, uh, you had it in music, you had it in acting at a very young age. And there's part of me that wonders that... You know, about the link of the things that you went through and the circumstances you were in and how that left you with this trait you described as not quite ever thinking you'll work or you were good enough, how that actually all played into your drive and ambition to go that extra mile, to work that extra hour, to spend an extra hour in the editing studio.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I often see in people that when they have that feeling of like... Some call it imposter syndrome, I don't like the term, that they actually produce better work because they end up becoming the perfectionist that you-
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... your father told you not to be. So it's interesting that there's a correlation there and, um... Well, if I asked you, you know, because I was looking at this and you started acting super young, I'm wondering how it's possible that at 15 years old you were not only joining one of the most successful, um, groups at the time in So Solid Crew, but you're also acting on the BBC, 15, 16, 17 years old. You're doing two things that most people never... I mean, if, if one person had just been in So Solid Crew, that would be a success.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
They would be a success. But for you to be doing both things at the same time, what have I missed here? Like, what is it about you that, um, your character traits, your philosophy, your mindset, that you think has really guided you through that process?
- AWAshley Walters
I'm gonna, I'm gonna struggle to-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- AWAshley Walters
... to answer this, Steven, if, in all honesty.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- AWAshley Walters
Because it kind of involves, like, um... It kind of involves bigging myself up a bit more than I'm comfortable with, if I'm honest. Um, but (laughs) since we're here-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- AWAshley Walters
Um... No, joke. Um, no, I think it's more... Look, I don't, I don't... I believe there's... That, some of that charm that we spoke about that I saw in my dad, I, I know I have-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
... in me. Right? So I have the ab- I have that ability. I know how to talk to people, right? I know if I kind of... If I get into a situation like this-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
... with me and you, like, I can-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
... make people like me.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
Do you know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- AWAshley Walters
Or whatever. Like-
- 47:02 – 48:58
🌟 Ashley describes the rocky and unstable nature of the entertainment industry, where rejection is frequent, but his drive and motivation come from turning those rejections into fuel for success.
- AWAshley Walters
I've been acting all of my life. So, not knowing sometimes how I was gonna feed my children (laughs) , you know, what was gonna happen next, you know, just whether I was coming or going, it was just unstable. It's just unstable. Um, and the rejection is immense, man. Like, you know, I have to be really tough in places when it comes to... 80% of it is people just telling you, "No. No, this ain't gonna happen. You're not gonna be able to do it. That's probably not gonna work. Sorry, we don't want you. Not this time. You were great, but." (laughs) You know what I'm saying? It's like that a lot of the time. What people get to see is a te- just that little 10% that works.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why didn't you listen to them? 'Cause I, do you know, I spoke to someone close to you, and they told me, they said... And it's funny, 'cause earlier on, you went, "I'm not good at..." You weren't good at saying no to people, right? 'Cause you said you have these people pleaser tendencies. When I spoke to people close to you, they said you're not good at hearing no either. As in-
- AWAshley Walters
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
... if someone says no to you, it turns into drive and motivation.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah, well, uh-
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, why didn't you listen to them when all these people rejected you and said, "No, it's not gonna work. You're not gonna be in this movie or this thing"?
- AWAshley Walters
It's kinda thrown me a bit, that. (laughs) I, now I'm thinking about who you just spoke to. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Yeah, but people on your team-
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... they say that, you know, you're...
- AWAshley Walters
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you, when someone says no to you, like, "You can't direct, Ashley."
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You go, "N- you know?"
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, I me- I mean-I have that, but I'm not... Like, I don't have it in a way of like-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Not in a rude way, but it turns-
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... into motivation.
- AWAshley Walters
It does, it does. Yeah. It does. Uh, you know, I stay... When I'm silent, that's when people should worry about me, 'cause you know (laughs) that's when I'm, that's
- 48:58 – 50:09
😶 Ashley Walters prefers the opportunity to try rather than being told he can't do something. He values the chance to bring his ideas to the table and learn from failure.
- AWAshley Walters
when I'm thinking how to get around you-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
... or how to do that thing that you, you said I can't do, but...
- SBSteven Bartlett
When someone says you can't do something, Ashley Wells says, "You can't do that."
- AWAshley Walters
Hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How does that feel?
- AWAshley Walters
I don't like to... Uh, I mean, it doesn't feel good. Doesn't feel good, um, especially when I know there's a way, and especially when I know that I can, you know, or I believe that I can. Um, I just prefer people to let me try, and if it fails then we can both agree, "Uh, maybe it wasn't gonna work the way I said it was." And we try a different way or we don't revisit it. Um, but I need the opportunity to, to bring how I feel to, to the table. And yeah, there have been times where I have accepted, like, it's not gonna work or whatever, and I've regretted it after because someone else has come and done it. Um, so I've, I, I think I've become... I've got tougher with that over the years. And li- like, the directing thing was one of those things 'cause I was
- 50:09 – 51:51
🎬 Ashley Walters overcame skepticism about directing by making a short film after being told he lacked experience. This experience led him to discover his passion for directing.
- AWAshley Walters
told, like, you know, "You can't direct." It was my own show that I created, and it was like, "Nah, you haven't got enough experience." It was like, "Yeah, I've watched some of the directors you've brought on here." Neither have they. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- AWAshley Walters
I've got more experience than them. I've been, I've been filming since I was, like, seven. Um, and to hear that is like, you know, it's a kick in the teeth. But (clicks tongue) I went to, you know, I went to my business partner after that. I was like, "How do we change this?" (laughs) And he was like, "Well, if you're serious about it, let's make a short film." I was like, "Well, if we're making a short film, we might as well made a short film." Got some money from Sky, made this short film. None of that came out, but I think actually what happened in that process was, I liked it. I wasn't expecting to like directing so much. At that point, it was about you want experience, I'm gonna get you a experience, the best experience that you could possibly have. Um, but actually throughout the process I was like, "Nah, I like this, man. I, I enjoy this process." Um, and that's spiraled into me doing more. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You said... You talked about Kingdom there. Um, those students that come to you, that you mentor, that ask you... You know, you said, okay, you can't help them figure out how and when it's gonna happen, but you can get them prepared. What is preparation for the life you've lived?
- AWAshley Walters
Oh, boy. Um, well, I make a g- I make a, um... I make a point of always saying to them that, "If you've come here trying to, um,
- 51:51 – 54:47
🤝 Ashley advises students to embrace their unique life journeys and not seek to replicate his own path, which includes hardships like prison and loss.
- AWAshley Walters
have my journey, you're gonna have to go to prison, you know, lose your dad, this, that, whatever." (laughs) I tell them all the negative things that's happened 'cause that's what's made me. So I was speaking to, to Laura about this. I was like, "Look, I can't sit there and regret things that have gone wrong, because the truth is, if they hadn't, if those series of events hadn't happened in the way they happened, on the days they happened, I wouldn't be sitting here now."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
"And I wouldn't have all the great things that I have, the kids and this and that. Any little thing that was different-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
... might have changed the whole course of my life, so I have to accept that."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Would you erase it? Would you erase your dad passing, going to prison, if there was a button in front of you now?
- AWAshley Walters
No, I couldn't. No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- AWAshley Walters
I couldn't. Well, if I erased that, then I might have... You know, you know like that picture in, um, in Back to the Future-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- AWAshley Walters
... where he's like... He... When he's not getting home or something like, and his brother starts to fade away, his sister starts to fade. It's like, if I erased that and brought my dad back, I might erase, like, four of my children. Do you know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- AWAshley Walters
(laughs) Actually, six degrees of separation, you might not be here.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs) Yeah. (laughs)
- AWAshley Walters
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
That's true. (laughs)
- AWAshley Walters
You never know.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- AWAshley Walters
Right? So, um, no, I couldn't. I couldn't. You have to, you have to live with it. And I say this to the students. It's like, so it's not about the journey, it's about how you use your journey. And, more importantly, enjoying the journey. 'Cause I'll tell you now, Steven, it's not that enjoyable where I am. The, the, the f- best parts of what I've achieved has been along the way. Do you know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
The, the people I've met, the fun I've had doing things, the filming, the memories, this and that or whatever. Actually the, looking back, the challenges, the people saying no, so what I had to do to get around that to, to get there and whatever. Actually, like, I think when you clock the game, it's like, "Oh." I'm not saying I've clocked it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
But I'm saying I can see with the people that I know that are, like, in that space where they've kind of like... There's not much more to do. I think it's pretty boring. Like, I don't envy them. You know? I don't envy them. I may want that Lambo, but I don't envy-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Where they're at. Yeah.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah. Like, you know, that space that they're in, 'cause there's nothing much more, more to achieve it feels like. And I'm always like, "I have to have a fix." Like, I have to... There has to be something else. Like, I'm very... I can be very fickle like that. Like, I can be very focused and determined and whatever, and now, like, I'm doing this Disney show, and it's like, I've shot the Disney show and, you know, I'm editing, but I want it to end now because I wanna do another show. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
So let me play out this, this scenario then, Ashley. Uh, uh, it's
- 54:47 – 1:00:53
💔 The pandemic forced Ashley Walters to confront himself, his flaws, and the importance of communication in his relationship with his wife. It was a challenging time but led to self-awareness.
- SBSteven Bartlett
funny because as you were saying that, I was imagining someone coming into your life and saying, "Ashley, you can't work for another two years. You just got to sit at home." But then I remembered we, we had that.
- AWAshley Walters
Oh, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The pandemic.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How did you respond to that?
- AWAshley Walters
Not well. Sitting down is not, not good for me. You know, I mean, uh, my wife and I, we can't... We can rarely go on holiday together because what she wants to do is read books she didn't get to read and lie on sun loungers and stuff. And I'm like, "I can't, I can't live like that," you know? I need to be doing something. Something's got to happen or be happening.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What if it doesn't?
- AWAshley Walters
It's tough for me. It's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was the pandemic like in the first couple of weeks sat at home alone? Nothing... Can't go to the gym, can't move?
- AWAshley Walters
That was tough, man. That was tough. Like, taking away my work from me and, you know, all of those... all of that talk of me being like, "Oh, I'd love to be there more with the kids and love to speak with my wife (laughs) a lot more," or whatever. I realized, no, I didn't... I, I wasn't ready for it. I wasn't ready for 24 hours with my family. I wasn't used to it. I was always used to having a, a release or knowing that, all right, I'm gonna have this week full on at home, but then next week I'm going there, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. So there was always something coming. Um, but yeah, it was a, it was a struggle. It, it, it opened up a lot of, um, a lot of things in our relationship, definitely. I mean, me and the missus, you know? Um, we dealt with a lot. Uh, we argued a lot (laughs) throughout that period of time. It was like... It was tough. It was a lot of things I didn't realize irritated me, you know, maybe about her and vice versa, you know? She realizes a lot of things that irritated her about me, um, I guess because we were spending so much time together, um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
If I was to fly-
- AWAshley Walters
... which was tough.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... a fly on the wall in your household at that time-
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... what would I have... What Ashley would I have seen-
- AWAshley Walters
Um...
- SBSteven Bartlett
... in that first couple of weeks?
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah, I mean, them depressed. You know, they were sad (laughs) .
- SBSteven Bartlett
Depressed?
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah, slightly. Yeah. Not... Worried about... I mean, worried about the state of the game, worried about where we was. I mean, I was one of those people that was worried, like, if I w- uh... Am I gonna die? Do you know what I mean? That was, like, one of my first thoughts. Like...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you have a breakdown?
- AWAshley Walters
No, I don't think I had a breakdown. I don't think I had a breakdown. I kind of know where you're, you're... I mean, there was... I had a moment.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- AWAshley Walters
I did have a moment because I think, I think the pressure, the pressure of not... Like, it was, it was hard for me not to, not to have the choice to work. Like, it was hard for me not to have the choice to do certain things with my life. Um, you know, and, um, yeah, it took it, it took its toll on me, I think. I don't know if, I don't know if I'll go as far as saying that I had a breakdown, but I was very depressed. I was very... I was very low. I was-
- SBSteven Bartlett
The-
- AWAshley Walters
... very low.
- SBSteven Bartlett
The, the reason I ask the question is because someone who... Uh, I think you remind me of myself in many ways, where I think at some level I'm getting some of my self-esteem and some of my self-worth from my work.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Like, by, by being successful in my work, I think I feel like I'm good in myself to some degree. It's probably an illusion-
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- 1:00:53 – 1:12:18
🗣️ Ashley recognizes the limitations of the voice in his head, which can sometimes lead to poor decisions. He emphasizes the importance of seeking outside perspectives and avoiding impulsive choices based on emotion.
- AWAshley Walters
It's an extension of you, right? It's gonna be trying to, like... It's biased.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
It's gonna be telling you, m- majority of the time, telling you the shit you wanna hear. You know, telling you stuff that's not really happening, but, you know, trying to m- justify... I, I just think, you know-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why is he a mug? That voice in your head.
- AWAshley Walters
Because, um, he's made me make some terrible decisions, in my opinion. Um, now, nowadays, I try to, uh, uh, try to quieten the voice as much as possible, right, um, and connect. I think that's, uh, most important thing to do. Like, if I can... if I'm sitting here thinking something and I'm... and I don't know the answer. Something, maybe emotional something. It's like, it makes more sense to call my mum (laughs) or to call someone else, you know what I mean? Or to speak, to open up to my wife about it and go, "Uh, what do you think about this?" And get someone else's perspective and then make decisions. But I feel like, you know, uh, as emotional creatures, uh, as we are as humans and we, you know, a lot of, uh, a lot of our... the moves that we made a- make are based on, you know, emotion, anger, fear, you know, jealousy, this, that, whatever. I just think you don't... You should never be making decisions in that, in that frame of mind, you know? You should always have someone to bounce something off. But I just don't think the voice in your head... I mean, look, in my, in my opinion, um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Nice.
- AWAshley Walters
... in my life, the voice in my head has never been the best voices. I've done some, some of the most stupid things (laughs) because I said to myself, "It's the right thing to do."
- SBSteven Bartlett
The p- the personality of that voice. Angry, you said?
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
At times?
- AWAshley Walters
Look, there's a, there's, there's a ve- there's a very vengeful person somewhere inside of me. I believe we've all got that part of us, you know. Um, some of the things that go through my head sometimes scare me, um, 'cause I've been hurt. You know, I've been hurt. And sometimes it feels like the easiest thing to do is hurt other people. But I'm just glad that I have the ability to control those feelings and to, and to think about things and to kind of always, in, in any how I can do it, move forward with, with love. And I, uh, have a clear understanding that, you know, hurt people, hurt people. So if you can, if you can, if you can forgive, you know, you're not... You're doing yourself a, a great favor, first and foremost, if you can forgive. If I can forgive the people that hurt me, right-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you forgive everybody in your life?
- AWAshley Walters
I don't think I've got round to forgiving everyone. I think I do carry a lot of, a lot of baggage, but I'm working on it. You know, I'm working on it. Um, and I'm working on making amends with other people as well that maybe don't forgive me, you know? Um, but what I do know is the people that may... I don't forgive, they probably forgotten who I am, (laughs) you know? But I'm sitting there thinking about them all the time and it's like, "So who's really hurt?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
You're hurting yourself.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, that's the nature, isn't it, of holding the grudges, which we all do, but it just, uh, it does noth- no damage to the other person, does it?
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's... I remember s- reading that quote one day and it was like, "Forgiving someone is like letting a prisoner go and realizing in doing so that you were the prisoner the whole time."
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Like, you can imagine opening the gates to the jail and seeing yourself run out. (laughs)
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And me going, "Fuck, yeah, I was-"
- AWAshley Walters
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
"... I was only hurting myself." You said something quite curious there, which may... gave me a train of thought, which is sometimes I just wanna speak to my, my wife Danielle about it.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Now, speaking to your wife about it, when I think about the other points you've given me about not being... like, growing up the way you did, your f- emotion not coming naturally to you, I'm guessing you're like me in some respects where... 'Cause I... having the kind of conversations that you need to have to ha- to keep a woman in your life don't come naturally to me either.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I don't, I still don't even call my parents by... I'd never call my parents mum or dad. I just don't... I didn't have that affection growing up.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So if you don't build the, the ability to communicate in a certain way and to listen in a certain way and show emotion in a certain way, you have no chance of being in a loving, committed relationship and getting all the benefits of that. What journey have you been on with like... 'Cause it's funny 'cause I, I was thinking about that moment where you're locked down together and the war. And much of the war is, like, either one person or two people that don't know how to communicate properly. (laughs)
- 1:12:18 – 1:13:39
😌 Ashley Walters believes in taking action and not just talking about problems, inspired by his mother's practical approach.
- AWAshley Walters
you're telling me something, it's like, "All right, so you want me to..." You know, you could be just saying, "I walked down the street, I fell over," or whatever, and, you know, that happened, like, last week or whatever. So I'm like, "Well, so should we book an appointment? Do you need to-"
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- AWAshley Walters
"... should we X-ray your foot?" Like, I need to do something, and I think the- the key to... You know, but that's- my mum was- has been like that, you know? My mum was, "Shut up. How are you going to fix it?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ah, so you learn, yeah.
- AWAshley Walters
"Be q- be quiet. What..." (laughs) You know what I mean? "What's your next steps? How are you going to make this w- you wanna go there?"... "write me a business plan." You know, that's what I went through in my life. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, you know communication was for the precursor to take some action.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It wasn't as a way to connect.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah. It weren't about, "So let's sit down and just talk about each other's days." I'm just like, "It's f-"
- SBSteven Bartlett
God, that must be difficult for, in terms of like, if I'm Da- Danny, your, your partner, and she comes from that background-
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... she, must have taken her a lot of work to understand you, that it's not that you don't love her.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It, you, it's none of that, because that's how that must feel, that coldness.
- AWAshley Walters
Um, shall I be honest with you?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, please.
- AWAshley Walters
She's, it feels like that to her now. Yeah. I think, I, I don't think she
- 1:13:39 – 1:14:47
😔 Ashley Walters discusses the challenges of bridging the gap with his partner, who may struggle to understand his background and emotional complexities.
- AWAshley Walters
understands. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm hoping somewhere deep down she does because she's still rocking with me. (laughs) You know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Have you told her though, have you told her this? 'Cause I feel like you probably-
- AWAshley Walters
What I've told-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... find it easier to talk to me than to say it to her. (laughs)
- AWAshley Walters
About the sort of person that I am?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. All of the stuff you've said, like you said today.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah. I mean, we've done a lot of, we do a lot of work on it. We're in counseling, you know? We're in counseling, um, every week and, like, we discuss it, you know? We talk about it. I don't think... I think the issue has been, up until that point, being in a room where someone's slightly mediating and helping to pull things out of you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
I haven't felt comfortable enough to be honest with her, you know, personally.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
Um, but I think that's happening more now. And there's ways, you know, we're learning ways to kind of talk about issues that we have with each other.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you're a dad now. Well, you, so you've got kids, so-
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... you th- must think about how that sorta generational cycle you talked about with your father, then you, is then gonna-
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... play out in the next generation.
- AWAshley Walters
100%. Yeah. I mean, it, you know, I, I carry
- 1:14:47 – 1:16:02
🧔 Ashley reflects on his past failures as a father, acknowledging that he wasn't fully present for his older children due to career priorities.
- AWAshley Walters
a lot of fear for that because it hasn't gone great with all of my children. You know, I, I don't have the greatest relationship with all of my kids, especially my older ones. Um...
- SBSteven Bartlett
You had, you had those when you were 17, those kids at 17-
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... 18 years old?
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah. Um-
- SBSteven Bartlett
You went to jail at 19 years old.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So, you were absent for much of that period.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah. A lot of the first bits of their life, and then when I wasn't, I was out. You know, I was touring, I was redoing music and then I was acting. And then, and then a, uh, I mean, if I'm honest with you, a lot of the other t- other times, like, I didn't, I didn't care enough. I didn't... You know, I cared about them, I loved my children, but I didn't want the, the adult responsibilities that came with it, and I didn't wanna sacrifice, you know, what I needed to do, um, in order to give to them. So, for a long period of time, I was like, I was not, I was not there in the way that I should be and I know that I fail. I'm pay-, I'm slightly paying the price for that now.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What is the price for that?
- 1:16:02 – 1:17:20
😞 Ashley expresses concern about the generational impact of his distant relationship with his own father and how it may affect his relationship with his children.
- SBSteven Bartlett
- AWAshley Walters
Is... uh, I feel like there's a slight distance between me and my older kids. You know, there's a lack of trust there, um, in feeling sometimes like, you know, why didn't they come to me-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- AWAshley Walters
... about that?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah.
- AWAshley Walters
You know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- AWAshley Walters
That's for me to d- that's a dad thing to, it's a dad conversation to have. Um, and as well, I think I passed on my, my distant kind of ways to them.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ah, okay.
- AWAshley Walters
So, you know, as much as, like, when we're together, we have an amazing time and whatever, but they don't call me that much, you know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
Um...
- SBSteven Bartlett
I think it's the same with me and my dad.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I think, uh, w- we never really had a close relationship and I, uh, I think he probably had the same with his father, and I have the same with him. And my fear is how that translates downwards to the next generation. Um, but me and my father, I wouldn't say we're like, he knows what's going on in my life, other than him listening to this.
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
There isn't, like, the phone call-
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... to update him or anything, so I can relate. (paper rustling)
- 1:17:20 – 1:18:25
Ad break
- SBSteven Bartlett
We've got an exciting new sponsor on this podcast, and I couldn't be more excited to announce that we're now working with Shopify. And if there's one tool that I use pretty much every single day in my businesses, that is certainly Shopify. I'm sure you've all heard about Shopify, but for some reason if you haven't, then Shopify is the commerce platform that is revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. Whether you're starting a side hustle, a new project with a friend, or a global business, Shopify has you covered. You guys may know that we recently sold a product on this platform called The Diary of a CEO Conversation Cards, which featured questions from the guests in these episodes. And from start to finish, from launching that product, we used Shopify. A total game-changer, makes life incredibly, incredibly smooth when it relates to business, and a tool that my team have absolutely loved using, which is not always the case with technology. We couldn't have launched those conversation cards without it. And if you guys haven't tried Shopify out for yourself, then I highly suggest you do. Head to shopify.com/bartlett to take your business to the next level today, and let me know how you get on. That's shopify.com/bartlett. Let me know how you get on. (paper rustling) Top Boy.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Crazy.
- 1:18:25 – 1:31:20
🎬 Ashley Walters journey with Top Boy
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's crazy how that all played out.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah. Yeah, it's, um, it's been an amazing journey, you know? Um, never, never thought it would actually... When we were shooting the first season, I remember Kane looking at me and going, "Are they gonna put this, are they gonna put this on TV?" (laughs) Because the subject matter, you know, some of the things we were, we was in the process, it was in, we were shooting that scene where-We cut off, um, Swayze's finger-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
... in the market in Summerhouse. And we was literally looking at each other like that. Uh, is Channel 4 gonna put this on TV? Because we've never seen anything on TV like it at the time. But, you know, cut from that to, to where we are today, one of the biggest shows on Netflix. One of our biggest, kind of, exports from the UK globally. And, um, and you know, people walking down the street and people just, just hearing Dushane from every angle of London. Um, it's crazy. You know, it changed my life. Changed my life.
- SBSteven Bartlett
In hindsight, you see what... How big of an opportunity it was. But when someone approached you with that, and that you saw the script and you saw the role you'd be playing in it, you must not have had an idea that it was gonna-
- AWAshley Walters
I didn't-
- SBSteven Bartlett
What did you think?
- AWAshley Walters
I didn't. Do you know, do you wanna know why I did it?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why? (laughs)
- AWAshley Walters
Right? 'Cause (laughs) , because, like, literally months before, I'd said to my agent, I said, "Look, I'm sick of just being a bad boy all the ti- like, I can't keep on playing these same roles. Like, so all I'm getting is..." After I'd done Bullet Boy, I was just getting the same scripts over and over again.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You'd been typecast as that.
- AWAshley Walters
Typecast, yeah. And I was like, I, I'm not... You know, I'd done a bit of research. I'd watched, like, videos of other actors, like, black American actors that had been in the same position, and other people that... And I just said, "Look, I have to be willing not to work, but I wanna be seen for other roles. Like, I wanna be..." Um, and she, she wi- (laughs) she made me know. She was like, "Look, you may not get any work for a while." That means, like, no money, no this and that. And I was like, "Well, so be it." So that kind of... That situation came about. But then the Top Boy script came, I remember, not too long after having that conversation. And for the first time for me reading that script, I was like, "Wow." It felt like, like Goodfellas, Scarface, like all of those show, those films that I'd grown up on that were very violent. Don't get me wrong. But behind it all, there was some structure and hierarchy. It was the first time that I'd seen black organized crime not looking like a bunch of crazy kids with hoodies just doing crazy shit and not having no, you know, with no sense.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
It was like I, I read characters that were human, that I finally was like, I saw the per- people behind the hood. I understood why they was doing what they was doing or what their motivation was for, whether I agreed with, agreed with it or not. Um, and I saw a character in Dushane that was, like, aspired for greater, like he wanted, he wanted to change the face of the game, you know? His initial intention was that, "I can do this. I'm gonna be the best at it, right? But along the way, I'm not gonna hurt people. And I'm gonna feed everyone." You know? And he was an... Like, you know that entrepreneurial kind of-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- AWAshley Walters
It was, like, there within the script and within the character, and that was, like, it that turned me. So, like, literally months after going, "I ain't doing no more of these roles or whatever," that script come and I was like, "Yeah, I'm doing this one though." Um, and that's what made me, that's what made me do it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And there was no hesitation?
- AWAshley Walters
Once I've read it, no. Once I've read it. I'd never read anyth- anything like it. And you gotta imagine, I was reading loads of... Like, when I say everything I read was about a black boy from inner city London that was a drug dealer or was stabbing someone or was shooting someone or whatever. It was like loads of different i- like iterations of the same character, right? And when I read that, just stood out for me. It was something different. I knew that there was something different about it, but I'd had no idea that it would cut through the way it did.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Channel 4 dis- p- t- didn't do a third series, right? They stopped, um-
- AWAshley Walters
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... at, at s- at two series. Why was that? I couldn't figure, I couldn't figure that out from rummaging and reading.
- AWAshley Walters
Yeah, I mean, you're not the only one who can't figure it out. I mean, I, I think over the years, 'cause I've been asked that so much, right? And I... I've learned or created scenarios that could have happened.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, okay.
- AWAshley Walters
Right? That I, so I don't know. But, um, I do think there was a change of guard around the time that it was, uh, the s- third season should have been commissioned.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- AWAshley Walters
And I feel like when that happens, um, ideas need to change in order for the new person to feel like they're not living off the coattails of what the last person created that was successful. And usually it's the most successful thing that gets the ax then, because there's nothing that... You know, I can't take the credit for this success. Um, so I feel like that might have been a reason why, or maybe there just wasn't the, the space there at the time for them to take it where it needed to go to the next level. But either way, like we discussed before, so good that it happened that way, right? And it had that space to just not be around and for people to want it back for so many years before we got into the new situation.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why did it come back in your view?
- AWAshley Walters
Um, I think it, it... Timing-wise, when it was on Channel 4, it landed at such a pivotal time just in London and for culture. And-... you know, coincided with, like, your, you know, the real kind of social media kind of push and all of that stuff. So I think it was kind of cemented in people's minds, and I think it was, like, wh- the first of its kind, really, to, you know, to do what it did. So I think that- that having that fan base, that key kind of niche cor- sort of fan base, cult fan base, kept it alive. And then I think-
Episode duration: 1:43:31
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