The Diary of a CEOFBI’s Top Hostage Negotiator: The Art Of Negotiating To Get Whatever You Want: Chris Voss | E147
CHAPTERS
- 2:00 – 5:00
Blue‑Collar Beginnings and Learning to ‘Figure Stuff Out’
Voss describes his upbringing with an entrepreneurial, blue‑collar father who demanded hard work, problem‑solving, and integrity. Early experiences like being told to tear down a garage at age eleven ingrained the belief that almost anything is possible if you work hard and figure it out.
- •Father modeled work ethic and never asked his kids to do what he wouldn’t do.
- •Childhood tasks forced creative problem‑solving and resilience.
- •Family values: honesty, hard work, and “figure it out” mentality.
- •Mindset takeaway: with that attitude, “there isn’t that much you can’t do.”
- 5:00 – 8:00
From SWAT Aspirations to a Career‑Ending Injury
Voss recounts his FBI SWAT experience and his failed attempt to join the elite Hostage Rescue Team, cut short by a serious knee re‑injury. That physical setback ended his tactical operator path but ultimately redirected him toward negotiation, reinforcing his belief that bad events often lead to better outcomes.
- •Served on Pittsburgh FBI SWAT before transferring to New York.
- •Re‑injured a college‑damaged knee while trying out for Hostage Rescue Team.
- •Realized his body might not withstand repeated reconstructions.
- •Reframed the injury as an opportunity that pushed him toward hostage negotiation.
- 8:00 – 16:00
Breaking Into Hostage Negotiation via Suicide Hotline
After being bluntly rejected by the head of FBI New York’s negotiation team for lacking credentials, Voss is told to volunteer on a suicide hotline if he’s serious. He commits for years, discovering how deeply crisis listening can serve both personal growth and the community.
- •Initial approach to negotiation program head is met with, “Go away. Everybody wants a T‑shirt.”
- •She advises: volunteer on a suicide hotline before asking again.
- •Voss does three years on the hotline; only 2 of 1,000+ people ever followed that advice.
- •Hotline work teaches him to value learning over “helping” as a way to avoid burnout.
- •Service becomes a “secondary bonus” of his pursuit of skill.
- 16:00 – 22:00
Drama Triangle, Guided Discovery, and Loss Aversion
Voss explains the ‘drama triangle’—victim, protector, persecutor—and how frequent callers manipulate helpers into giving advice they can attack. This maps to business negotiation, where helping people discover their own solutions is more powerful than telling them what to do. He connects this to Kahneman’s loss aversion as the dominant driver of human decisions.
- •Frequent callers oscillate between victim and persecutor to bait advice and then attack it.
- •Best practice: be a sounding board, not an advice‑giver; use guided discovery.
- •Jim Camp’s ‘Start With No’ echoes this: help counterparts discover the best deal themselves.
- •Loss aversion: loss is felt at least twice as strongly as equivalent gain, possibly up to 9x.
- •Hostage‑takers almost always have a recent identity loss; negotiators must “look for the loss.”
- 22:00 – 28:30
Ethical Use of Loss and the Necessity of Empathy
While loss aversion can be exploited, Voss warns that bluntly wielding it makes you the psychological equivalent of a hostage‑taker. He frames empathy—not sympathy—as the only sustainable way to surface and work with people’s fear of loss without becoming coercive.
- •Directly saying, “You’ve got a lot to lose if you don’t do this,” is perceived as hostile.
- •Empathy means understanding and articulating feelings, not agreeing or pitying.
- •Goal is to guide counterparts to see their own risks, not threaten them.
- •Negotiators must balance influence with ethics to avoid becoming manipulators.
- 28:30 – 37:30
First Big Test: The Brooklyn Bank Robbery Standoff
Voss describes his first major negotiation: a rare live bank robbery with hostages in New York. He and NYPD negotiators confront a manipulative mastermind who feigns helplessness and fear of imaginary accomplices, using classic CEO tactics to avoid responsibility.
- •Bank robber uses the “helpless CEO” tactic: blaming unseen, dangerous partners to avoid commitment.
- •He refuses to give his name, unsettling negotiators and maintaining psychological control.
- •Investigators identify his van and voice, uncovering his real identity as a cash courier.
- •Team leader deliberately breaks protocol with a non‑smooth negotiator handoff to regain control.
- 37:30 – 45:00
Mirroring a Criminal into Revealing His Getaway Driver
Voss explains how verbal mirroring—calmly repeating the last key words the robber says—causes the man to inadvertently reveal crucial information about an unknown getaway driver. The case ends with all hostages released, despite the robbers gaining nothing they asked for.
- •Robber briefly puts a hostage on the phone to remind police of her presence, then pretends it never happened.
- •Voss uses a gentle, probing approach, referencing the van outside to set up a name confrontation.
- •Simple mirrors like “You have more than one van?” make the robber over‑explain and blurt out facts.
- •This slip eventually helps convict the getaway driver, whose existence was previously unknown.
- •Hostages walk out alive; negotiators achieve resolution by reshaping the robbers’ vision of survival, not giving tangible concessions.
- 45:00 – 52:30
How to Negotiate When You Won’t Give Them What They Want
Discussing the same bank case, Voss explains how to negotiate even when you can’t or won’t grant substantive demands. The key is to help counterparts see a future in which they live, emphasizing survival and humane treatment to trigger their self‑preservation instinct.
- •Robber’s main concern becomes not being killed; secondary concern is rough treatment upon surrender.
- •Voss repeatedly promises, “You’ll be treated with dignity and respect,” and delivers on it.
- •He refuses to lie, even under pressure, emphasizing long‑term reputation and the futility of lying to liars.
- •Academic hypotheticals about lying to save a city ignore that experienced criminals test and detect deception.
- •Ethical consistency becomes a practical necessity, not just a moral stance.
- 52:30 – 57:30
Live Role‑Play: Defusing a 60‑Second Deadline for a Getaway Car
Bartlett role‑plays a hostage‑taker demanding a car in 60 seconds. Voss responds with calm, reality‑anchoring questions and statements that force cognitive engagement rather than emotional reactivity, illustrating how to move someone from fast, impulsive thinking to slower, reflective thinking.
- •Voss opens with “How am I supposed to do that?” to make the other side think.
- •He adds empathetic framing, “Even if I wanted to do it…” to avoid adversarial pushback.
- •Repeatedly highlights the logistical impossibility of the demand within the stated time frame.
- •Focus is not on getting answers, but on provoking pondering—what Kahneman calls ‘slow thinking.’
- •He acknowledges that in roughly 7% of cases, hostages die despite best efforts; negotiators cannot justify putting more people at risk by granting impossible or dangerous demands.
- 57:30 – 1:07:00
Listening, Voices, and the Neuroscience of Tone
Voss dismantles the myth of dominating negotiations by talking more. He outlines three broad personality types (fight, flight, make‑friends) and corresponding voices, explaining how a calm, downward‑inflecting tone and a smiling voice can biologically nudge people toward collaboration.
- •“Loud closers” often have strong first quarters then rapidly deteriorating performance; they don’t keep jobs.
- •All serious negotiation schools treat listening as a high‑level capability.
- •Assertive “brick to the face” style (e.g., a Trump‑like directness) is long‑term counterproductive.
- •Analytical, soothing voice triggers automatic calming neurochemicals in listeners.
- •Smiling voice generates likability; combining calm and warmth encourages collaboration.
- •Voss notes Bartlett’s own voice as thoughtful and downward‑inflecting, signaling genuine listening.
- 1:07:00 – 1:15:00
Labeling Pain and Seeking the ‘That’s Right’ Epiphany
Voss details how to ‘label’ someone’s emotional state instead of absorbing or denying it, which reliably reduces the emotional charge. He connects this to the powerful moment when someone says, “That’s right,” signaling deep resonance, cognitive reframe, and increased likelihood of truth‑telling.
- •Labeling: calmly articulating, “It sounds like you feel…” about their negative emotion.
- •Neuroscience: naming emotions in fMRI studies reduces activation in brain regions tied to those feelings.
- •People feel seen, heard, and understood when their emotion is accurately labeled.
- •“That’s right” indicates they feel what you said is true, not that they’re agreeing to please you.
- •Tal Raz links “That’s right” to epiphanies; oxytocin release strengthens bonding and honesty.
- •Voss contrasts “That’s right” with the weaker, often appeasing “You’re right.”
- 1:15:00 – 1:26:00
Applying Hostage Tactics to Romantic and Everyday Relationships
The conversation shifts to how negotiation tools play out in romantic partnerships and daily life. Voss argues that all humans crave being understood, and close relationships demand not just understanding but behavioral adjustment, with intent being the ethical dividing line between manipulation and care.
- •Every relationship—romantic, business, family—involves negotiation over needs and expectations.
- •Listening just to get someone to stop talking is quickly detected and breeds distrust.
- •In healthy relationships you both demonstrate understanding and change behavior in response.
- •It’s often harder to see the other’s perspective the closer they are to you.
- •Voss jokes that dating smart women means being negotiated with early and often, underscoring power symmetry.
- •Standard for caring about how the other person feels should be highest in romantic relationships.
- 1:26:00 – 1:34:00
Trauma, Failure, and Post‑Traumatic Growth in High‑Stakes Work
Voss addresses the worst case he worked: a year‑long kidnapping in the Philippines that ended with multiple hostages, including American missionary Martin Burnham, killed by friendly fire. He reflects on guilt, the temptation to see oneself as the primary victim, and how he consciously chose to channel the trauma into strategic improvements that later saved lives.
- •Burnham/Soberano case involved months‑long pursuit of Abu Sayyaf, with multiple killings along the way.
- •Two of three remaining hostages died during a surprise firefight when Philippine forces opened fire on a camp they didn’t realize held hostages.
- •Voss recalls the 5:30 a.m. call—“Martin is dead”—as his worst professional moment.
- •He distinguishes between post‑traumatic stress injury and post‑traumatic stress growth.
- •Realization: negotiators must not center themselves as the victims; it’s not their blood or child.
- •They implemented strategy changes from that failure, which he believes later saved many lives.
- 1:34:00 – 1:39:00
The Hidden Cost of the Job and Strain on Intimacy
Returning to the emotional toll theme, Voss and Bartlett discuss how constantly operating in crises can create distance at home. Voss admits he doesn’t process by talking and needs rest and time to ‘bake’ experiences, which can clash with partners who try to help by pushing for immediate verbal processing.
- •You get wrapped up in work and can become distant in your personal life.
- •High‑stakes environments normalize intensity, making ordinary home life feel flat or hard to re‑enter.
- •Voss processes by unplugging and sleeping, not by immediate debriefing.
- •Partners may misinterpret the need for silence as withdrawal or avoidance.
- •Self‑knowledge about processing style is crucial for maintaining healthy relationships under stress.
- 1:39:00 – 1:48:00
Mirroring, Business Training, and Building Black Swan Group
Voss dives deeper into verbal mirroring and its appeal to people with high IQ and EQ who want to guide interactions subtly. He then outlines his company, The Black Swan Group, which packages these negotiation tools into books, training, and coaching for clients worldwide.
- •Hostage/Black Swan mirroring is strictly verbal: repeating 1–3 key words, not body language mimicry.
- •He avoids coaching body‑language mirroring due to its frequent use as manipulative theater.
- •Mirroring makes people elaborate while feeling they’re simply being listened to.
- •High‑IQ, high‑EQ people love mirroring because it’s low effort, high impact in directing conversations.
- •Black Swan Group offers free resources, paid training, and hands‑on coaching for real negotiations.
- •‘Never Split the Difference’ has sold over 2 million copies, reflecting broad demand for practical negotiation tools.
- 1:48:00
Closing Reflections: Help, Gifts, and Everyday Negotiation
In a closing tradition question from a previous guest, Voss is asked whether there is someone who needs his help but he doesn’t know how to help. He candidly mentions a family member for whom he keeps buying the wrong gifts, planning a direct conversation to finally understand and get it right, underscoring that negotiation and empathy start at home.
- •He admits struggling to understand what an immediate family member truly values in gifts.
- •Plans an explicit conversation: “I realize I’m getting it wrong. Help me get it right.”
- •Reinforces that even experts must consciously apply their tools in everyday family life.
- •Bartlett highlights how Voss’s work is relevant to all human interaction, not just extreme crises.
