Fix Your Gut Health! The 4 Foods Fueling Inflammation & Disease! - Dr Will Cole

1. 0:00 – 2:29

   Intro

   1. WCDr Will Cole0:00

      If you care about mental health, care about your weight and your energy levels, you have to care about the ... because if it's not healthy, you're not healthy. Dr. Will Cole. Bestselling author. One of the top 50 functional medicine practitioners.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:12

      And is a health expert for the world's largest wellness brands, such as goop.

   3. WCDr Will Cole0:17

      There's so much medical gaslighting going on. Your average conventional doctor would fail a basic nutrition test, and I find that to be problematic because you have the worst healthcare system, and yet you're criticizing people that are trying to do something different.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett0:32

      You define yourself as a functional medicine doctor.

   5. WCDr Will Cole0:34

      The differences between mainstream medicine and functional medicine is they're trained to diagnose a disease and match it with a medication. But I think a nutrition-forward approach to healthcare is vastly important.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett0:47

      Why?

   7. WCDr Will Cole0:48

      Because the vast majority of health problems are lifestyle-driven, foods we eat, exposure to toxins. These lifestyle things are really what's plaguing our society. 60 to 80% of all Western countries are dealing with some massive metabolic issues, in part fed by chronic stress. Part of our trauma in our life has to do with the trauma that our ancestors have gone through. It sounds science fiction, but looking at how trauma is literally stored in the cells and then passed through family lines is very much science.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett1:19

      Are you optimistic that there's things we can do to change it?

   9. WCDr Will Cole1:22

      As trauma can be inherited, so can healing. There's three main things. First thing is ... Number two ... The third would be ...

   10. SBSteven Bartlett1:32

       Before we get into this episode, just wanted to say thank you, first and foremost, for being part of this community. Um, the team here at The Diary of a CEO is now almost 30 people, and that's literally because you watch and you subscribe and you, um, leave comments and you like the videos that th- this show's been able to grow. And it's the greatest honor of my life to sit here with these incredible people and just selfishly ask them questions that I'm pondering over or worrying about in my life. But this is just the beginning for The Diary of a CEO. We've got big, big plans to scale this show, um, to every corner of the world and to, to, to diversify our guest selection. And that's enabled by you, by a simple thing that you guys do, which is to watch. So, if there's one thing you could do to help this show and to help us continue to do what we do, it's just to hit the subscribe button. If you like this show, if you like what we do here, if you watch these episodes, please just hit that subscribe button. Means the world. Let's get on with it.

2. 2:29 – 5:20

   Why do you do what you do?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:29

      Dr. Will.

   2. WCDr Will Cole2:30

      My friend.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett2:31

      (laughs)

   4. WCDr Will Cole2:32

      Th- thanks for having me.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett2:33

      I'm gonna start this, um, conversation where I started it quite recently when I spoke to Max, who I think you, you, you're familiar with, um, which is, what do you do and why do you do it?

   6. WCDr Will Cole2:47

      Hmm. I've always been a health nerd, I guess you could call it. And in hindsight I, I now look back and think of how, what a weird kid I was. My first job was at the Finish Line, when I ... I don't know if you have those in the UK, but they're basically tennis shoes, like sneaker stores. And I u- I would use my paycheck, at 16 years old, to go to the health food store and buy the latest superfood that I'd see research on, the latest supplement, and that was always fascinating to me. How could you optimize your health using natural things, using things that are of the planet and food to feel great? And needless to say, my ... I was packing my lunch in this, in the brown bags with the peppers and (laughs) bananas and th- these whole grain, the crunchy things in the, in the '90s, and my friends weren't doing that. So that evolved in me being interested in that food and nutrition to wanna be formally trained. And I have a family history of autoimmune conditions, and I just have a passion to figure out these complex puzzles. And it's a sacred responsibility for me to then take my own passion and how can I problem solve for these people and hold space for them? 'Cause I see, in the topic of autoimmunity specifically, it's a vast, in many ways, a silent epidemic of people that are struggling. There's so much medical gaslighting going on. They're told they're just depressed, given antidepressants. They're told they are just stressed out. But the research speaks for itself, these statistics speak for itself, that we f- we have, in the United States alone, about 50 million Americans having an autoimmune condition. But millions more are somewhere on this autoimmune inflammation spectrum, where they are, they're labeled with things like chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia, and they b- they may not even be diagnosable, but they're, they're feeling that sort of anxiety and fatigue and brain fog and digestive problems and different iterations of inflammation. So, it's ... If you know anything, I guess, to answer your question pointedly, my E- Enneagram, if you know anything about that sort of personality s- s- study, I'm an Enneagram Five, which means I'm a researcher. So I'm sort of this voracious, like, "Let's figure this out and get to the root cause of why you're struggling," so that's why I do what I do.

3. 5:20 – 11:37

   What's the difference between a conventional and functional doctor?

   1. WCDr Will Cole5:20

   2. SBSteven Bartlett5:20

      And you d- define yourself, in terms of your job title, as a functional medicine doctor?

   3. WCDr Will Cole5:24

      Yes, I'm a functional medicine doctor.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett5:26

      What does that mean?

   5. WCDr Will Cole5:27

      So if I had to break it down, the differences between conventional medicine and functional medicine, mainstream medicine and functional medicine, first thing is we interpret labs using a thinner reference range. If you know, you get your lab and you have your number and you have this X to Y interval, this reference range that your GP or PCP is comparing you to. We get that reference range largely from a statistical bell curve average of people who go to that lab. It's non-standardized, for the most part-People that are predominantly going to labs are people, sadly, going through health problems. So, a lot of people know intuitively, "Something's off here. My fatigue, my brain fog, my digestive issue, my hair loss," whatever it is. They go to their doctor and the doctor runs the basic labs, and they say, "Look, the labs pretty much look normal. You're just depressed. You're just- you're stressed out." What they're unintentionally telling the patient is they're a lot like the other people with health problems that they are being compared to. Just because something's common doesn't necessarily mean it's normal. Comparing yourself to people with health problems is no way for you to find out how you can feel at your best and why you feel the way that you do. So, in functional medicine, we're looking at optimal, not average. So, the Cleveland Clinic here in the United States has a functional medicine center. Main- many mainstream institutions have functional medicine and integrative medicine institutions. And all of us in functional medicine are trained through what's called The Institute for Functional Medicine. So, we're looking at optimal, not average. We're running more comprehensive labs to get to the root cause, 'cause ultimately speaking, we're- none of us are sick from a pharmaceutical deficiency. You're not gonna, like, pharmaceutical your way into health one day. They are disease managing medications and are needed many times, but ultimately, we ask the question, "What is your most effective option that causes you the least amount of side effects?" And for some people, medications fit that criteria and they need to be on it. But oftentimes, medications really don't fit that criteria, yet it's the only option given to them and there's a root upstream causation as to why they have to be on that disease-modifying medication in the first place. So, we're looking at things like underlying gut problems, chronic infections, nutrient deficiencies, hormonal imbalances, or things like trauma and shame, the things that I'm talking about in my latest book. Uh, and ultimately, it's predicated on bio-individuality. We're all different. And even good things, even healthy things that's relevant, that's pertinent for one person may not be relevant for you. And even healthy foods, what works for one person may not work for you. So, it's really curated, customized, evidence-based medicine, in short.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett8:13

      If, you- you know, when you think about conventional medicine and conventional, I guess, health advice, and then you contrast that to your perspective-

   7. WCDr Will Cole8:21

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett8:21

      ... your view of health and medicine, what are the real stark differences?

   9. WCDr Will Cole8:26

      Well, I think the- the diagnostic aspect is the- is one of them, because they're trained in the standard model of care to diagnose a disease and match it with a medication. So, that sort of- sort of, um, medicinal matching game, if you will, is a major part of the conventional m- model of care. And I think a nutrition-forward approach to healthcare is w- another one. And I mention a study in Gut Feelings how the- this- it was- it's study in a medical journal, and showed that in this one group, that the average conventional doctor would fail a basic nutrition test because of the training that's not there. And any conventional doctor will tell you, and actually most of my colleagues in functional medicine are conventionally trained, and they will tell you, they had to go to post doctorate training to even learn about nutrition. And I find that to be problematic because we're dealing with the vast majority of health problems that people are seeing are lifestyle driven, meaning that the foods we eat or not eating, our stress levels, our sleep, our exposure to toxins, these epigenetic lifestyle things are really what's fueling what is plaguing our society and what the ma- major, like, endocrinologists, PCP, GP, are seeing on their day-to-day visits. So, I would say the approach is different, 'cause there's a place for medication. Again, I- I mentioned that sort of litmus test of maybe a piece to your puzzle, but ultimately it is not the totality of what's going on here. And we have to look at a, in my opinion, a both and, not an either or, sort of reductive, tribal approach. And that's where I think functional medicine attempts to bring things together, where it's not us versus them, it's, well, what is the most effective tools within this person's toolbox? And medications may be part of it, but there are oftentimes a lot more effective, a lot less side effects tools within, uh, than that tool block- t- within that toolbox.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett10:27

       You mentioned earlier that you- you had family members that had autoimmune-

   11. WCDr Will Cole10:30

       Yeah.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett10:30

       ... um, inflammation conditions?

   13. WCDr Will Cole10:32

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett10:33

       What- what was that and how did that have an impact on you at all?

   15. WCDr Will Cole10:37

       Well, I mean, I could go over both sides of my family, really. There's- there's different neurological, autoimmune issues like MS type symptoms, if you know anything about that. Uh, dif- type one diabetes on both sides of the family, where the immune system attacks the pancreas and then the body cannot produce insulin so you have to take insulin to manage your blood sugar. People have a- autoimmune thyroid issues, Hashimoto's disease is really our, one of our top patient base today, is people that have autoimmune thyroid issues, and different and other inflammatory problems. So, how it impacted me, I think was just seeing how it impacted the quality of life. And health and life on Earth, I think in many ways is just so fragile. I mean, it's- we take things for granted so much until it's not there, and I'm reminded on an hourly basis from- with my patients now, too, it's just a sacred thing that w- I want to do everything I can to help them regain it.

4. 11:37 – 16:31

   Why did you write the book ‘Gut Feelings’?

   1. WCDr Will Cole11:37

   2. SBSteven Bartlett11:39

      Gut Feelings, a book you've just finished writing, I believe. Um, why did you write a book called Gut Feelings? What- what was the... You know, I always say this when I speak to authors, that writing a book is an absolute labor of love and it takes forever to do, it's a painful process.

   3. WCDr Will Cole11:55

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett11:55

      So, to- so to do that, you must really have found a topic subject matter that really, really mattered to you. Why Gut Feelings? Why did you call it that? Why did you write that book?

   5. WCDr Will Cole12:06

      So again, this is my fourth book, and...As with anything that I've written, it's really born out of my passion for my patients and just seeing things play out. And I think in many ways, my patients are kind of like... You know that saying, "Canaries in the coal mine"? I think they're canaries in the coal mine for the rest of the world 'cause they tend to be, you know, further down that autoimmune inflammation spectrum, h- they're, they're struggling with different inflammatory problems, but then I look at the statistics and I realize it's just... They're the tip of the iceberg of really what's going on. Um, so Gut Feelings is really a conversation around mental health and autoimmunity, and people's, I would say, di- diet culture as a whole, and talking about the sort of duality within wellness, both gut and feelings. The physiological and the psychological. The physical and the mental, emotional, spiritual. And again, this both/and approach, I think, is needed to have sustainable healing in people's lives, whether they're going through anxiety and depression, brain fog, or fatigue, or they're going through an autoimmune condition or different inflammatory problem. You have to deal with the both- this both physical and mental, emotional, spiritual. And I've- I love the fact that, I think in our culture, in the past years, we've made great strides to normalize mental healthcare and destigmatize people getting access to mental healthcare. Wonderful. I just feel like it's, in many ways, this is sort of, eh, the next stage in that conversation, 'cause I think in many ways it's an incomplete conversation around mental healthcare. 'Cause in the West, we still like to separate mental health from physical health. You know, it's a mental health problem. We sort of relegate it as sort of this abstract, sort of philosophical, chemical imbalance, if you will, which is in- now it's coming out that it's flimsy science at best anyways. That we have to realize that mental health is physical health, and our brain is a part of our body just like anything else, so it's really, in- in a part, Gut Feelings is a conversation around what's known in the re- research as the, the Cytokine Model of Cognitive Function. Cytokines are pro-inflammatory cells, right? So, it's research looking at how does inflammation impact how my brain works? How does inflammation impact mental health? So, things like anxiety, depression, brain fog, fatigue, have this inflammatory component, but then the question is, what I really talk about in the book is, what's driving the inflammation? 'Cause inflammation is a normal part of the immune system, but what's triggering this chronic inflammation that's sort of this, this forest fire that's burning in perpetuity? That's the problem of what's triggering people's mental health issues, just like it's triggering their autoimmune issues. So, both the gut and the feelings part of it are the things that we know from the research, and I have a lot of clinical experience to show how these things impact people's health. So, the gut things, i.e. like underlying gut problems, that's 75% of the immune system. Inflammation's a product of the immune system. Our gut and brain are actually formed from the same fetal tissue. So, when babies are growing in their mother's womb, the gut and brain are formed from that same fetal tissue, and they're inextricably linked for the rest of our life through what's known as the gut-brain axis, or the connection between the gut and the brain. And if you think about it, the intestines kind of even resemble the brain. 95% of serotonin is made in the gut. 50% of dopamine is made in the gut, stored in the gut. Researchers call it the second brain for a reason because of this. This is a lot of far-reaching implications to underlying gut problems. To not only inflammatory problems, i.e. autoimmune issues, but also to mental health issues because it is the second brain. But then conversely, the feelings stuff, like I really talk about in the book, the research around chronic stress and trauma and even intergenerational trauma. How these big, complex things, these mental, emotional, spiritual things, are literally stored in ourselves. Dysregulating our nervous system, raising inflammation levels, impacting how our hormones are expressed. So, it's both a gut and a feeling side of- two sides of the same coin that impact so many people, and I don't- you know, I just- I have these conversations with my patients all the time, but it just was a matter of when I had the conversation in book form.

5. 16:31 – 30:18

   How is inflammation and shame related & why is it affecting us?

   1. WCDr Will Cole16:31

   2. SBSteven Bartlett16:31

      Inflammation. I don't really know what that word means. How would you summarize or, um, simplify that word for anybody that also doesn't really understand the term inflammation?

   3. WCDr Will Cole16:41

      Yeah. It is, you know, abstract. I- I think to your point, it's- I use it so flippantly that I realize I'm in this weird health bubble, but it- it is a nebulous term. It's not inherently bad. It's a product of the immune system. The immune system makes different proteins, different amino acids, different chemical messengers, if you will, that fights viruses, fights bacteria, heals wounds. So, when you think of inflammation in this sort of normal acute state, it's if somebody h- gets a sporting injury and their knee swells up, right? That's acute inflammation rushing nutrients and healing and oxygen and white blood cells to the area to repair it, to rejuvenate it. That's normal measured human inflammation. We would be goners as a species without normal, uh, uh, a normal inflammatory response. It's when inflammation goes chronic that there's a problem. Chronic inflammation, it's associated with just about every health problem under the sun. When you're looking at what researchers are looking at, these inflammatory components, you're looking at autoimmune issues, metabolic issues like type 2 diabetes, when you look at, uh, cancer, heart disease, to mental health issues. As I mentioned, this sort of cytokine looking at the neuroinflammatory component to things like anxiety and depression. So, that's what inflammation is. When it- when it goes chronic-... it really sets off a lot of cascade of dysregulation in the body because it's- it's a lack of homeostasis. It's the Goldilocks principle, you know, and it's not too high, not too low, but just right. That's where you want inflammation, just like many things in the body, just like the gut bacteria in our microbiome where you don't want bacterial overgrowths, we don't want a deficit of beneficial bacteria. Like hormones, we don't want too much hormones, like a dominance of hormones. We don't want a deficiency of hormones either. Inflammation is the same thing. We don't want excess inflammation. That's what's associated with all of these chronic health problems, and we don't want a deficiency. That's immunosuppressed people, that people who have immunodeficiencies. That's not good either. So it's about modulating and supporting healthy inflammatory pathways is really the clinical objective for my patients and for the average person out there that's looking to optimize how they want to feel, that should be their goal as well.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett19:05

      So I- I got two questions there. Wh- what is- what is a symptom that one might notice in themselves of chronic inflammation, and what are, in your practice, what are the leading sort of causes of that chronic inflammation?

   5. WCDr Will Cole19:15

      Mm-hmm. Sure. So there's three... The way that we see it in functional medicine, there's three main stages, if you will, on this continuum, this inflammation spectrum. On one end, there's silent inflammation, silent autoimmunity, meaning if you ran labs, you'd see some- some markers off, like a high sensitivity C-reactive protein, which is, uh, quite a conventional marker. You'd see that spiked. You'd see maybe a homocysteine level elevated and other inflammatory protein, but the person feels all right. They say, "Every- everything's cool." Stage two is the inflammation reactivity. That's the vast majority of people living on our planet today are in stage two or three. Stage two, a lot of people are there. They have things like brain fog. They have things like fatigue. They have some sort of dysregulated nervous system response. A way that people typically will say it, they'll say, "I'm anxious, but I'm exhausted." Or wired and tired is the other way of putting it. They have different digestive problems. I mean, th- the amount of people that have chronic constipation or IBS or some sort of digestive issue that, again, it's their every day so they normalize it, but these things are anything but normal. They're just ubiquitous. And, uh, and I would put under that category, mental health issues like anxiety and depression, autoimmune reactivity issues, and people that have hormonal problems. And then stage three is a full-blown diagnosable issue. Like they're going to their doctor and they're given an ICD-10 code, in the States. They're given some diagnostic code, and they're given a medication or recommended some conventional treatment. But researchers estimate it's about four to ten years prior to that diagnosis when things were brewing on the spectrum, meaning by the time somebody gets diagnosed officially, it didn't happen overnight for most people. So it's no matter where you're at, how can you be supporting your gut and your feelings? How can you be supporting your physical health and your mental/emotional/spiritual health? To answer the second part of your question is like, what are the most common causes of it, it really stems, like, the broad umbrella of it has to do with what researchers refer to as an evolutionary mismatch or an epigenetic genetic mismatch. Our genetics, it's estimated, hasn't changed- haven't changed in about 10,000 years. But yet our world has changed dramatically in a really finite period of time when you're putting that into context with the totality of human history. So the foods we're eating or the foods we're not eating, our stress levels, our collective and personal traumas, environmental toxins, our soil microbiome disruption and depletion, and in turn impacting our gut microbiome. So all of these epigenetic modulators, if you will, our DNA is living in this brave new world and it's awakening genetic predispositions that have been lying dormant there for 10,000 years. But they're being triggered like never before in human history because of this onslaught of this chasm between our DNA and the world around us.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett22:25

      So on that point then, the world- the world we live in is, um, maybe misaligned to our genetics, which is kinda what I heard there. Let's start with the- the emotional stuff. One of the topics you introduce in chapter one of your book is this idea of shameflation. Never had that term before.

   7. WCDr Will Cole22:42

      Yeah. Shameflamation.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett22:43

      Shame- Okay, shameflamation. Um, what does that mean? Um, and what's- what science have you got to support that that's a real thing?

   9. WCDr Will Cole22:52

      Yeah. Well, it's- it's inflam- it's really a commentary on inflammation. It's not that shameflamation is a literal real thing. It's a commentary on how does what's shown in the research as far as in things like chronic stress, which is so well-researched, and trauma, and I talk about in the book something called intergenerational or transgenerational trauma, how do these things impact our body, our physical health? So shame is sort of a term that a lot of my patients feel varying degrees of shame. They feel shame that they're not perfect enough with their body or around food or around life itself, not, you know, being the best parent or the best whatever in their life. There's a lot of health-related shame in our world and just shame in general when it comes to life. So shame is sort of the term that I used in the book of how to explain the sort of mental/emotional/spiritual feeling that people have. How is it impacting their health? In the book, I- I talk about this study around self-compassion, um, which is really, right, the antithesis of someone that's shaming themselves, is someone that has sort of grace and a lightness and a self-compassion around it. And study, they- (laughs) the study had people do, they had them speak in public.... or do math, which apparently that's what we hate the most as humans. (laughs) But the- they measured their inflammation levels when they were doing these stressful things, right? And their inflammation levels were high. I- interleukin-6, this IL-6 inflammatory protein. But the people that practiced self-compassion during this time had the lowest levels of inflammation. And on day two, you'd expect, okay, the person would sort of adapt and the people that were doing the math or the public speaking, maybe the inflammation would come down. Actually, the inflammation levels were higher on day two than day one, sort of this cumulative effect. But again, the people with- that practice self-compassion, which I talked about the different practices in the book that I've seen effective for my patients, it attenuates, calms that inflammatory response. And that's just one of many, but we know most health problems of why people who are visiting their doctor are stress-related that are either exacerbated by stress, that are flared up by stress, or literally caused by stress. When you're looking up at things like autoimmune issues, we have patients fill out what's called an Adverse Childhood Experience score, every telehealth patient that we have. And research have sh- has shown that people that have these higher ACE scores, these cumulative childhood and beyond childhood lifestyle, like life stressors, whether physical abuse, sexual abuse, mental/emotional abuse, alcohol abuse in the home growing up, people that have gone through these things in life have an increased likelihood of an autoimmune issue later on in life, or a mental health issue later on in life, or a metabolic, like type two diabetes issue later on in life. So again, there's a lot of shame around that stuff too, as far as what people have gone through. So shame inflammation is really just my term to explain this phenomenon that's in the scientific literature that I see out- I see play out in people's lives on a daily basis.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett26:03

       You talked about how, how vicious sh- uh, stress is as a cause, I guess, for inflammation. You know, people tend to think of stress as being a really, really bad thing. I, I hear often that s- some kind of stress is, is a good stress. What is, in particular, the type of stress you're talking about that is leading to, um, this, this shame inflammation? I'm, I'm assuming it's chronic stress.

   11. WCDr Will Cole26:26

       Mm-hmm. Yeah. Human species, the human species wouldn't be here without some grit and resilience. And I think in some ways you could argue that we're really lacking in resilience and grit, and that's something that I'm teaching my patients and in the book, for people to sort of gain a resilience to handle stress. There's nothing wrong inherently with stress. And even if you look at the research around hormetic effects or hormesis, like, people are doing the cold plunges you see all around the wellness space, or sauna therapy, or high-intensity interval training, or even things like fasting. These are all hormetic effects that humans would have spent times in, like difficult times, periodic times of stress. It actually makes ourselves more resilient and, and our souls more resilient in, in many ways. But it's the chronic stress where it's out of alignment with that ancestral health perspective. It's, it's, it's, there's a, that evolutionary mis- mismatch that I mentioned earlier, that is something that we haven't aligned with. We have these, these different stress adaptation responses in the body, and the body's releasing things like cortisol and adrenaline, and we never allow this sympathetic fight or flight stress aspect of our autonomic nervous system to calm down. So we're always in this fight or flight stressed state to varying degrees that people never a- are able to regulate themselves. They're never able to support that parasympathetic, that resting, digesting, that hormone balance state of their, their nervous system. So yeah, it could look different for different people. But I, the things that I hear the most with, from people, it's their jobs, it's, it's like a lack of, I would say, healthy boundaries with their jobs, and their family can be a source of stressor, finances can be a sort of stress, and their health. I think when you don't feel well, that's stressful as well. Those are the most common things that I hear from people.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett28:25

       This fight or flight response, this sort of prolonged state of feeling like you're kind of in fight or flight, which is sort of characterized by being short of breath or feeling a bit on edge or nervous, what is the consequence of being in that state for too long? 'Cause a lot of-

   13. WCDr Will Cole28:39

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett28:39

       ... people can probably relate to that.

   15. WCDr Will Cole28:41

       Yeah. Well, it's, that is in part what's driving these, these vast epidemic of health problems in our world today. When you're talking about 50 million Americans having autoimmune condition, hundreds of millions worldwide are having autoimmune condition, type two diabetes, I mean, it's the vast majority of people in the West are somewhere on this insulin resistance spectrum, meaning they have things like PCOS or weight loss resistance or insatiable cravings or pre-diabetes or type two diabetes. All of these health problems that we are plagued with as a world are in part fed by chronic stress. It's just a matter of how much your body can handle. And that's sort of the conversation in the book about bio-individuality, right? Some people have the bu- analogy's sort of the bucket analogy. Some people have massive buckets and they can handle a lot of things in their life before it's gonna hit that tipping point. Now-

   16. SBSteven Bartlett29:44

       What is the tipping point?

   17. WCDr Will Cole29:46

       The tipping point is health problems, where-

   18. SBSteven Bartlett29:47

       Right.

   19. WCDr Will Cole29:47

       ... something's got to give and they realize they're diagnosed with a health problem and it's stressors, the foods we eat, trauma, all of these things accumulate. You can't change your bucket size, but you can change what you put in it. You can't change your genetic tolerance for stressors, but you can change what you put in it. So it's really a message of agency, right? It's a me- message of, "What can I do?" We all have different abilities or thresholds to handle things in our life, but we all have the ability to clear these things out and to heal ultimately.

6. 30:18 – 38:28

   What does our future look like & can we change it?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett30:18

      You know, have, hearing all of this, it makes me feel so deeply that the way we've chosen to live our lives is really unhuman.

   2. WCDr Will Cole30:25

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett30:26

      And when I think about what we can do to, to change that from, like, a real systemic level, it seems like it might just be too big of a job-

   4. WCDr Will Cole30:34

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett30:34

      ... because of the direction of travel of everything, technology, the way we're, we're, we're organizing our lives in terms of, like, cities and, um, work and profession- professionalism and social media, et cetera, et cetera. Are, are you optimistic that there's things we can do to change it, and what are those, like, real systemic things we have to do within our own lives as individuals, but also as a society?

   6. WCDr Will Cole30:56

      Yeah. I mean, it's something I think often about, and I think that there's a growing amount of pockets of people, if you will, that are, that know intuitively they have to do something different to see something different. And being in functional medicine for the past 13 plus years at this point, I have to say what was once considered radical or fringe 13 years ago, the idea that stress and trauma could trigger autoimmune issues is now very much talked about in conventional settings. And the things that may have seemed woo-woo and strange (laughs) 13 years ago now is being researched by reputable institutions. I, I talk about the research of the book around shinrin-yoku, which is the Japanese term that translates as forest bathing, which sounds weird when you think of it in English, but it's actually a beautiful description, I believe, of the Japanese art of using nature as a meditation, using nature as a medicine, and how researchers show, like, just spending few minutes in nature and taking in with all of your senses, like, a sensorial effect of nature lowers inflammation levels, lowers stress hormones, balances the human immune system, actually improves the human microbiome because of the, the things you're smelling in and taking in with all of your senses. So I, I think the fact that researchers are looking at these ancient arts is a good sign that we, as a culture, are looking for something different, 'cause I think in many ways, if... Do you remember that Pixar film WALL-E?

   7. SBSteven Bartlett32:36

      Mm-hmm.

   8. WCDr Will Cole32:37

      (laughs) I think WALL-E's prophetic in many ways of, like, the path we could go down, where people are just sitting, looking at a screen, and we've lost all sense of reality, that I don't... I think whoever wrote WALL-E, the people at Pixar, we can go a different direction.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett32:52

      You know, this is such a, a, a, a, an interest- a strange question to ask based on what you've said, but I was just, just as you finished speaking there, I was thinking about how we know this stuff. Like, you know this stuff.

   10. WCDr Will Cole33:03

       Yeah.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett33:03

       I know this stuff. It's not the, uh, in terms of, like, getting back to being a little bit more human in the way that we organize our lives. But we, I was gonna ask you the question, like, do you do it?

   12. WCDr Will Cole33:12

       Yeah. I mean, to me, I don't think you have to pick between modernity and decreasing that chasm between genetics and epigenetics. So I live in a modern world. I run a telehealth clinic, so I use (laughs) technology to speak to people around the world, uh, for the past 13 years, and we ship labs to them, and so I very much am a fan of technology. And, uh, people are listening to us right now around the world. I love the decentralization, the democratization of health information because of technology. It's wonderful. But I think the sort of unfettered lack of healthy boundaries with this phenomenon that we only have relatively a few years of experience with as a, as a world, I think that that's something we just have to learn how to check ourselves, and we are all trying to figure it out right now. So do I live it? Yes, I live it. But I l- I live it in a balanced way, where I have boundaries with technology. Like, my son's here in the studio with us right now. He's 16 years old. He just got a phone at 16, and so as a parent, I'm making these decisions of there's kids that are, like, eight, nine years old having social media. (laughs) And we have the US Surgeon General, Doctor Vivek Murthy, say recently that, he says, and this is the US government saying children under the age of 14 shouldn't have social media. If the US government's saying it, who takes well-measured conservative advice for these type of things when it comes to wellness historically, if they're recommending it, I could only assume that we have an issue at hand. So yes, I, I, I think it's just a matter of all of us to make these decisions for ourself out of self-respect, not out of shame, but out of self-respect. What do I need? What healthy margins, what healthy boundaries do I need to live a more sane life, to live a more joyous, to live a l- a more meaningful life? Some people can handle probably more technology than me. Some people could probably... We all have, again, this bio-individuality when it comes to these things. But I think we just need to, to, out of self-respect, check ourselves.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett35:19

       It's, I, I'm thinking even beyond technology into things like, you know, we're becoming more lonely than ever before-

   14. WCDr Will Cole35:24

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett35:24

       ... but we all know that's not good for our health or our happiness. We know that being in a community is great for our health and happiness. We're eating things that we all know are not great for our health and happiness as well. And, and so, like, the really, a- and many of the things you've said, I was like, "Yeah, I know that to be true, but, like, why don't I do all of those things?" I, and my, my conclusion in my head was that I think I optimize for something else.

   16. WCDr Will Cole35:43

       Mm-hmm.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett35:44

       I think a lot of us actually optimize our lives not for, like, health or really even for what we know at our deepest level would make us happiest.

   18. WCDr Will Cole35:54

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett35:54

       We optimize for other things, like status-

   20. WCDr Will Cole35:56

       Mm-hmm.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett35:57

       ... and success, and we're, or reproductive, reproductive, um, pursuits.

   22. WCDr Will Cole36:01

       Mm-hmm.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett36:01

       And I was just thinking, I was just trying to mull it over there why that is, why, like, everything you've said in terms of being healthy and being happy, um, we all understand. And even, I think about myself here, I think, "I could go do all of those things-"

   24. WCDr Will Cole36:14

       Mm-hmm.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett36:14

       "... but what I'd have to do is probably log off the internet."

   26. WCDr Will Cole36:18

       Mm-hmm.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett36:19

       You know, probably wind things down a little bit, be a little bit less ambitious. Um, would I be happier?... probably. (laughs)

   28. WCDr Will Cole36:28

       (laughs)

   29. SBSteven Bartlett36:28

       But I'm not doing it. Would I be healthier?

   30. WCDr Will Cole36:30

       Yeah.
7. 38:28 – 49:00

   Is trauma inherited & how does it impact your health?

   1. WCDr Will Cole38:28

   2. SBSteven Bartlett38:28

      One of the things that orientates us and changes our priorities is trauma, and that's something you talk about in the book as well. Um, the really fascinating thing that I've always been keen to ask somebody is about this idea of intergenerational trauma, which you referenced a second ago.

   3. WCDr Will Cole38:42

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett38:43

      'Cause I wasn't sure if intergenerational trauma was just, like, woo-woo spiritual stuff or whether it was real science-

   5. WCDr Will Cole38:49

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett38:49

      ... i.e. that the idea that your parents' trauma can be passed onto you somehow. Is that true?

   7. WCDr Will Cole38:56

      Yeah. Well, and that's... Yes, it is true, it is true. It's what researchers are really exploring of how it's expressed in our descendants. And then, we all have trauma just in our own life, right? And we all... These are things that we can accumulate and through things like therapy and somatic experiences and things like EMDR that I talk about, you can work on your trauma in your life. But for some of us, part of our trauma in our life today has to do with the trauma that our ancestors have gone through. So, two s- geopolitical, historical things that were big things in our world are really, were explored in the scientific literature to see how this plays out. One was a Ukrainian genocide, manmade famine in the early 20th century. Joseph Stalin, the Ukrainian people wanted to have freedom, really nothing new is under the sun. Every time the Ukrainian people wanted to have freedom, there was some sort of authoritarian squash on their efforts. But this famine in the early 1900- uh, hundreds, uh, was done on the Ukrainian people, m- millions of people died and what researchers have found is not just the people that went through this atrocity, their- their children and their great, uh, grandchildren had the same methylation gene variants. Methylation is something that we quantify on- on labs. It's, uh, f- sort of interconnected, different b- uh, biochemical pathways that impact inflammation levels, impact neurotransmitters and how our brain works, different detoxification pathways that literally, this trauma that these people went through during this Ukrainian genocide was passed on like an epigenetic heirloom of how genes were expressed by their experience. Similar research was done in the Holocaust and the descendants of people that went through the Holocaust in Germany and Poland. So, yes, it sounds science fiction, but intergenerational trauma or transgenerational trauma, looking at how trauma is literally stored in the cells and then passed on through family lines, is very much science. And it's shown that these people have increased likelihood of mental health issues, autoimmune issues, type 2 diabetes, different hormonal problems. And I... You know, this is what's being explored in the science, but I could only imagine that it exists on a spectrum, that maybe all of our descendants haven't gone through the same things. But I think intuitively, again, we can know that there's certain behaviors and certain ways that people live in part because of what our ancestors have gone through. So, yeah, that's what's being explored.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett41:43

      Feels a bit like, uh, f- it feels like a lot to deal with, like, having to deal with my own trauma, let alone-

   9. WCDr Will Cole41:47

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett41:47

       ... my great-grandparents' trauma as well, having a role in my- my life.

   11. WCDr Will Cole41:51

       And in- in- in- in that way, I think that can make... A lot of people can think about this as like, "Wow, I'm screwed." Like, I- i- if it wasn't a- I- I have my own junk, let alone my ancestors' stuff.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett42:03

       And I'm gonna pass my junk onto my kids?

   13. WCDr Will Cole42:04

       (laughs) Right. But I think... So, for the average person, you don't necessarily have- even have to think about it 'cause it's just where you're at today and... But I would say this, if you shift your perspective and almost give yourself a little bit more grace, a little bit more forgiveness and compassion to say, "Well, uh, there are some big things at play here," and I see people...... up against seemingly insurmountable things, that have gone through a lot of personal trauma- trauma, as well as ancestral trauma, break the chains of dysfunction, break the chains of d- disease and disorder in their life. And heal not only themselves, but heal their families, heal their children's children, h- heal f- generations they'll never get to see. So, I think it's how you look at it. Yes, it's heavy, but as trauma can be inherited, so can healing.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett43:00

       Interesting. The, uh, the- in that chapter where you talk about intergenerational trauma, you also talk about, um, polyvaginal theory.

   15. WCDr Will Cole43:07

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett43:08

       Big word-

   17. WCDr Will Cole43:09

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett43:09

       ... big phrase.

   19. WCDr Will Cole43:10

       Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett43:10

       What is, what is p- polyvaginal theory?

   21. WCDr Will Cole43:12

       Polyvagal. Polyvagal.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett43:13

       Oh, right. Of course, I've gone vaginal. Jesus Christ.

   23. WCDr Will Cole43:16

       (laughs)

   24. SBSteven Bartlett43:16

       I'll keep that in.

   25. WCDr Will Cole43:17

       (laughs)

   26. SBSteven Bartlett43:18

       Is there anything called polyvaginal theory?

   27. WCDr Will Cole43:20

       Th- th- the- pro- probably. I have to, we have to learn about that together. I don't know about that.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett43:22

       Okay. Let's talk about polyvagal theory instead then-

   29. WCDr Will Cole43:24

       (laughs)

   30. SBSteven Bartlett43:24

       ... if you don't know anything about polyvaginal... (laughs)
8. 49:00 – 59:28

   What food should we avoid?

   1. WCDr Will Cole49:00

   2. SBSteven Bartlett49:00

      And you mentioned food a second ago and the role that plays, the foods that don't love us back. What are the foods that don't love us back?

   3. WCDr Will Cole49:06

      I'm gonna lose some friends right now on this podcast. But it's- that- what I would call the inflammatory core four, plus one (laughs) if I can. But the- would be gluten-containing grains would be on the list. That's things like wheat and rye and barley and spelt. And there's a nuanced conversation about this. Is it- is it really the grain or is it what we've done to the grain? I think it's more of what we've done to it. We're not properly preparing it, plus we're hybridizing it. We're spraying it with tons of stuff. And then we're over-consuming it, right? We're over-consuming a famine food. We're feasting on a famine food that historically was stored well and now we're always consuming it, let alone what we've done to the crop and the soil in which it's grown. But for the sake of simplicity, I think the average of wheat that people are consuming is triggering a lot of inflammation levels, definitely do- doesn't love the human species back very much. And number two would be industrial seed oils, things like canola- canola oil, vegetable oil, soybean oil. These things that are not... This is kind of controversial for me to say in the health space. I don't think that they are inherently bad. I think they are just over-consumed because the- we need healthy ratio- ratios of omegas-3, -6, and -9. When you think of omega-3s, it's like the healthy fish, right? People are like, the- the omega... The healthy long-chain omega fats you get predominantly from fish. People are not having enough of those healthy omega-3s, they're having a lot of these seed oils that are in a lot of packaged foods. So I think it's just the over-consumption of one and not eating enough of the other. Th- the third would be conventional dairy. By conventional, I mean, the average dairy that you're getting, the milk that you're getting at the grocery store. There are better versions of it when you're looking at grass-fed organic, A2 milk, you'll see popping up, because beta-A2 casein is the subtype of casein that would have been consumed by humans for thousands of years. Now because of the cross-breeding of cows, most casein is beta-A1 casein, which has been shown to be more inflammatory because, again, of this evolutionary mismatch. Our ancestors wouldn't have consumed all of this. The fermentation of dairy can make it more digestible 'cause it's breaking down the casein, the dairy protein, and those dairy sugars. So things like kefirs or cheeses and yogurts can be more- more digestible. And the fourth would be sugar and the over-consumption of that. But most people know that, but I- I would be more mindful of even the nice-sounding euphemisms for sugar. You know, where it's like, oh, it sounds... Like a- agave nectar, I think of that, right? Agave just sounds so natural, like they're squeezing the agave in the cup and just consuming it. (laughs) It's mostly marketing because it's still sugar and it's still high in fructose. So I would be just mindful, for the listener out there, to look at the grams of added sugar you're consuming in a day, no matter where it comes from. Um, and then the plus one would be alcohol, which is really a saboteur to our gut-feeling connection. It will impact our gut microbiome, it's been shown to increase leaky gut syndrome, really raise systemic inflammation, and it's a neurotoxin. Researches have shown that even drinking a small amount a few times a week is associated with lower brain volume, lower hippocampus size, which we- which we need for focus and energy and- and having optimal cognition.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett52:41

      This term gut microbiome is one that I've only come across in the last couple of months, maybe the last three to four... Three- three to four months, roughly. And the importance of the gut microbiome. For anybody who is new to this- this term gut microbiome, why does it matter and what is it?

   5. WCDr Will Cole52:56

      Yeah. It's vastly important, and as I mentioned earlier, the gut and brain are formed from the same fetal tissue, right? That's our gastrointestinal system. Within it, we have upwards, depending on the study that you look at, upwards of 100 trillion bacteria in our gut. And it's sort of this gut garden that influences a lot of things in our body. As I mentioned, about 95% of serotonin is made in the gut, 50% of dopamine. So our happy pleasure, joyous chemicals, neurotransmitters, are made in the gut, stored in the gut, almost exclusively when you're talking about serotonin and dopamine. And these bacteria also regulate the immune system. So we- we're talking about the way that two-thirds of the immune system is living in the gut, or an inflammation, as I mentioned, so ubiquitous, most of it's drivi- it's or- originating in the gut. So there's a lot of gut-centric components, both from a gastrointestinal system and nervous system standpoint. But part of that crosstalk between the gut and the brain and the nervous system and the immune system has to do with the microbiome, which is the collective term for all the bacteria and yeast and parasites living in the human gut, which we co-evolved with. And in some ways, it kind of made us. It- it kind of... We would not be here without the microbiome. If the microbiome all of a sudden left, we would not be able to produce neurotransmitters, we would not be able to have an immune system, we would not be able to digest food, we would not be able to convert hormones. 20% of the thyroid hormone is converted in the gut in the presence of healthy bacteria. So the point is-We are- it is regulating. These bacteria, which are not us, is regulating how we think, how we feel, how we operate, what we crave. I mention a study in the book (laughs) where there's bacterial imbalances in many people's guts, actually causing them to crave certain foods, 'cause it wants to eat- it eats what we eat. So again, this message of really, I think, grace in many (laughs) ways, where it's not your lack of willpower. Sometimes it's just these gut bacteria that need to be tended to and pruned so we can actually have proper signaling as far as our blood sugar control and craving control. So if you care about mental health, if you care about your overall health as far as inflammation is concerned, if you care about your weight and your energy levels, you have to care about the microbiome, because if it's not healthy, you're not healthy.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett55:35

      How do I go about caring about my gut microbiome?

   7. WCDr Will Cole55:38

      So it starts with the foods you eat.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett55:40

      Yeah.

   9. WCDr Will Cole55:40

      Right? The- so I would say that- that there's inf- that inflammatory four plus one, decreasing those, and then focusing on foods that love us back. I- one of the action items that I talk about in the book is the soups and stews that I mentioned. It's- it comes from a GAPS- what's called a GAPS protocol. It's an acronym. It stands for Gut and Psychology Syndrome, or Gut and Physiology Syndrome. So it's a food tool that we use within functional medicine, or at least I do, that's, uh, really helpful for calming a lot of gut-centric inflammation, and it's sort of a- a proverbial siesta for your gut, because it's almost pre-digesting the foods when you're cooking things. Again, our ancestors would have known all of this, because they would have- if you talk about just ancestrally, soups and stews were a thing that people did, especially when you were going through a health problem.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett56:30

       Mm-hmm.

   11. WCDr Will Cole56:31

       When you think of chicken soup when someone's sick, it wasn't the noodles that were m- (laughs) the health benefits of- of the soup. It was these broths and these cooked vegetables and cooked meats that were easy to digest and break down. So somebody that's going through a digestive problem, gut health problem, or has inflammation levels and suspects there's gut-centric components to that inflammation, or they're going through things like anxiety and depression or fatigue, I really would implement- and we put a lot of recipes in the book so people can really learn how to cook this way that's really quite easy, and it's an affordable way to do it, and you can batch cook it and really have it throughout the week as well. So that's one thing. Um, and then, like, these feeling action items and breathwork, it's huge for vagal tone and huge for microbiome health, is- is simple meditation, simple breathwork, all the way to the holotropic and more of the advanced tools that I talk about is a really good way to support vagal tone. The more s- you're supporting your vagal tone, the more you're supporting your gut-brain axis, the connection between the two, which is enervating the gut. There's something called the migrating motor complex, or the MMC, which is your gut kind of keeping the bacteria i- in the s- large intestine, in- in the colon, but your brain has to be the one that's regulating this bidirectional relationship between your gut and the brain and the brain and the gut. So breathwork and meditation. I mentioned forest bathing, hygge, like, thing- acts of stillness is what I call it in the book. Pick which one you want, but stay consistent with it, because these support us at the parasympathetic, these acts of stillness are hugely restorative to your vagus nerve and, in turn, your microbiome.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett58:13

       If someone's i- in a supermarket or on their way to a supermarket today and they've heard your- your first comment there about the importance of food and the foods we pick, about the broths and the- the stews, et cetera, as they're walking through those supermarket aisles, what things should they be picking up if they are trying to be good to their gut?

   13. WCDr Will Cole58:28

       Hmm. Well, I would start with fiber-rich vegetables, 'cause you're gonna be cooking those in the soups.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett58:35

       Mm-hmm.

   15. WCDr Will Cole58:36

       So you really could pick any of your favorite vegetables that you would want to be having, and then your favorite protein that you'd be having. You could do chicken, grass-fed beef. You could do fish, really, or a p- plant-based protein, and you could do the- what stock you want to be having. You could do the- a bone broth, you could do a plant-based broth, like a galangal or ginger broth or a seaweed broth, and just of your choice, really curating these soups and stews, and think of it, again, as sort of this nourishing, grounding, healing time for you and your gut. That's what I would do. So wherever that's at in the supermarket, go find those things. (laughs)

   16. SBSteven Bartlett59:14

       (laughs)

   17. WCDr Will Cole59:14

       And then f- I would say fermented foods can be something that people could consider, starting off low and slow 'cause they can't- they are kind of potent things, but things like sauerkraut and kimchis and kefirs, those can be good too for many people.

9. 59:28 – 1:00:28

   Ads

   1. WCDr Will Cole59:28

      (page flips)

   2. SBSteven Bartlett59:28

      As you might know, this show is now sponsored by Airbnb. I can't count how many times Airbnbs have saved me when I'm traveling around the world, whether it's, you know, recently when I went to the jungle in Bali or whether it's when I'm staying here in the UK or going to business in America. But I can also think of so many times where I've stayed in a host's place on Airbnb and I've been sat there wondering, "Could my place be an Airbnb as well, and if it could be, how much could I earn?" It turns out you could be sitting on an Airbnb goldmine without even knowing about it. Maybe you have a- a spare room in your house that friends stay from time to time. You could Airbnb that space and make a significant amount of money instead of letting it stay empty. That in-law, that guest house, that annex where your parents sometimes stay, you could Airbnb that and make some extra income for yourself. Whether you could just use some extra money to cover some bills or for something a little b- bit more fun, your home might be worth a little bit more than you think, and you can find out the answer to that question by going to airbnb.co.uk/host.

10. 1:00:28 – 1:07:02

    Why I stopped being a vegan

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:28

       (page flips) You were vegan for 10 years, weren't you?

    2. WCDr Will Cole1:00:30

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:32

       Why are you not vegan anymore?

    4. WCDr Will Cole1:00:33

       You did your research on me. (laughs)

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:35

       Yeah.

    6. WCDr Will Cole1:00:35

       I was a vegan for- for a while. Um, it didn't love me back. It worked for a while, and I think that's- that's... And I- I, my first book was called Ketoterry and it really was that...... exploration of being the health nerd and trying something new and feeling great and doing it in a whole food-based way, and then evolving from it and realizing it didn't love me back. And just because something's better, meaning just because something's better than the standard Western diet, which it certainly was, doesn't necessarily mean it's optimal. And it's okay to pivot, it's okay to evolve. Um, so for me, I talk about it in Ketotarian, but it's- I wasn't getting the complete protein that I needed, and a lot of the proteins that I was getting really wasn't working for me on a digestive standpoint. It just was, like, a lot to digest. It was kind of irritating my system. And there were some nutrient deficiencies from a bioavailable iron standpoint, bioavailable B vitamins, like folate and B12 standpoint, and true vitamin A, retinol, which you cannot get in plant-based form. Now, in theory, I could have supplemented with all of those things. I could have supplemented with iron, I could have supplemented with B12, uh, which I was, and I could have supplemented with vitamin A, which I was. Uh, they, but this- they're synthetic, mainly. The- the retinol that you're getting from supplement form is synthetic. It's not in its whole food form. So the question that I posed to myself was, if I have to supplement, is it really the most ideal diet for me? So, I have many patients that are vegan for various reasons, like religious and ethical reasons, and we wanna make them the best vegan, or vegetarian w- if they're vegetarian, f- food protocol for them. But for me, I was able to pivot out of that, where I could still be predominantly plant-based, but still be omnivore, and feel amazing. So that's- that was my journey.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:35

       What were the physical sort of symptoms that you experienced that made you awaken to the idea of pivoting out of being vegan?

    8. WCDr Will Cole1:02:41

       It was fatigue more than anything. It was fatigue, brain fog, and digestive problems more than anything. And I thought, you know, it was just me, and, you know, I evolved from it. I have a- not to get super science-y on you- but I have a double MTHFR gene variant, which just- we all have different gene variants, right? But this is one of those gene snips, or single nucleotide polymorphisms, that we can measure- we quantify on labs. We get raw gene data from something like the different, um, genetic tests that people get, like Ancestry or 23andMe. We can look at their own genetic bio-individuality. My body is not as good in that way at methylating, meaning that specific MTHFR gene has a lot of science behind it. Basically, I'm not as good at converting folic acid into folate, I'm not that good at bringing this inflammatory protein down called homocysteine. Many people have this, and higher homocysteine levels, even slightly elevated, is linked in the research to increasing the blood-brain barrier permeability, basically contributing to, in part, neuroinflammation. So people that are going through things like brain fog or different inflammatory problems or fatigue, oftentimes homocysteine is implicated in that. So for me, to get those levels optimal, bringing in things like wild-caught fish and grass-fed beef and more soups and stews, with, like, bone broth-based soups and stews, like collagen-based things, loved my body back tremendously.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:10

       Did it fix the physical symptoms?

    10. WCDr Will Cole1:04:12

        100%. So it d- and that's the thing is, like, it's science and art. Like, not- for all- for all of my patients that are- are vegan or vegetarian, maybe they're not willing to pivot, so I wanna give them- let's be pragmatic and be the best option for you. But for someone that is willing to test these things out, still be predominantly plant-based, but still bring these things in, I think can do wonders if you're willing to do it.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:34

        A lot of people when they're thinking about being good to their body or- or, uh, good to their gut, they'll have, like, a detox.

    12. WCDr Will Cole1:04:41

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:41

        You know? Like, detox juice week or something.

    14. WCDr Will Cole1:04:45

        Yeah. (laughs) Yeah. Yeah.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:46

        What's your thoughts on- on that?

    16. WCDr Will Cole1:04:47

        You know, I think it's a lot of probably- well first of all, it's such an ambiguous term, right?

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:54

        Yeah.

    18. WCDr Will Cole1:04:54

        It's like you don't know what they're actually talking about when people say that or it's mentioned on a bottle or a protocol that you saw online.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:02

        Like a seven-day juice detox.

    20. WCDr Will Cole1:05:04

        Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, so I- I get why people want to do it, 'cause we live in quite a toxic world and eat a lot of foods that don't love us back, so people are looking for some reprieve. But I find in many ways it's sort of like diet culture has snuck its way into wellness in that way, where it's like- it's this yo-yo dieting of the '90s is now in the form of, like, juice detoxes where you just sort of drink and eat like crap and you go and do a juice detox. I- to me it's not what wellness is really about. I want people to have tools whenever they do fall off the wagon, so to speak. I don't even like that term. But when- you know what I mean. When they're up against maybe a stressful time in their life or kind of have been busy and haven't been eating the best and they wanna kind of find their center again, I think that's great. I think that juice cleanses, juice detoxes probably aren't the way to go, I would say. Again, better than the standard American diet? Maybe, but not necessarily optimal. And my- my point would be, in thinking about this, is the lack of fiber. I think if somebody wants to eat whole foods and maybe get smoothies 'cause the fiber's been blended up in sort of this fruit-based, vegetable-based smoothie, I think that has its place, because the fiber will buffer all the fructose that's in there, the fruit sugars. If somebody's having copious amounts of fructose for seven days with no fiber, I don't feel like that's setting them up for success. Where do you go from there, I think, after the seven days would be my mind, and if they have a game plan long-term. 'Cause look, a lot of people have unhealthy guts, we know that. So sometimes giving your gut a break from all the junk in any form can be good. So it's not necessarily the juice that's the most healthy thing in the world. (laughs) It's that you're not feeding it junk for seven days-

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:56

        Mm-hmm.

    22. WCDr Will Cole1:06:57

        ... so your gut's like, "I'll take it. I'll take the juice over whatever, the beer."

11. 1:07:02 – 1:13:03

    The best advice for optimal health

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:02

       Your son, your son is sat in the studio, as you said. Um, he's sat over in the corner over there, 16 years old. Based on everything you know about the gut, about food, about our emotions, about stress, and the c- the sort of causal relationship all of these things have with each other, um, if you could design your son's life to be optimal as it relates to health, can you talk me through the, the ... I, I was gonna say adjustments, but how you would design that life-

    2. WCDr Will Cole1:07:29

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:29

       ... for him to b- have an optimal life in 2023 and beyond?

    4. WCDr Will Cole1:07:34

       Mm-hmm. Yeah. So for me, like, esp- if we're talking specifically my son, it ... I look at him now at 16 years old, and I think all of us as parents, like whoever the parent's listening to this right now, it's plant seeds by first living it out yourself, right? And living your life out of ... as an example, instead of sort of preaching and being dogmatic and being ... making it about sort of diet, diet culture. I don't think that that's healthy at all. But it really ... Shift your perspective away from all the things you quote-unquote "can't have," but really focus just on ... back to all the things you get to have. And avoiding things that don't love you back isn't restrictive. It's self-respect for your body. And really, that's something that I've tried to do with my son and his sister, is really f- focusing on foods that love him back. So if you want a day in the life of what it would look like, um, he ... It's funny to see. At 16 years old, he starts to own it for himself. It's not this thing that I'm just talking about or a thing that, that Dad does. Now (laughs) I see him. He actually said to me this the other day. He said that, like, it ... He said that very thing. He, he's now taking it for himself. "I took it," he said, "I took it for granted for all these years of just ... It was in the house, and this is what was Dad was doing, but now this is like now he can own it for himself." So I think there's hope for us, 'cause he'd be the first one to tell you he's a picky eater. And that's okay. And it's really just meeting your kid where, where they're at and planting seeds, and then at some point, the goal is for them to own it for themselves. So in the morning ... I mean, he typically does some intermittent fasting in the morning, which isn't for everybody. About 16 years old, he's working out, he's eating clean. He does some time compressed feeding in the morning. So that's something. That's not for everybody, but it works for him and I. We both do it.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:33

       Why? Why is it good?

    6. WCDr Will Cole1:09:35

       Because it's a goal to support metabolic flexibility. Humans would have done this. They just would have called it life because of food availability. Food wasn't always available for our ancestors, and again, most of our genes haven't changed in 10,000 years. So having some intentional time where you're not eating and you're breaking your fast a little bit later in the day or you're ending your eating window in mid-afternoon, those are two ways that you can do it. Be sensible about it, be moderate about it. If you have, you know, an eating disorder, I wouldn't recommend it. But for the average person that's looking to optimize their health, most of us are, in the West, stuck in this sugar-burning, metabolically inflexible state where we're cr- we're, we're on this blood sugar rollercoaster. We have these insatiable cravings, even if it's for the healthier sugars. And intermittent fasting's a way to sort of train your metabolism to be more resilient, to be more flexible. So then break the fast around lunchtime is how we typically would do it, where we have lots of vegetables and clean protein or healthy fats like avocados and extra virgin olive oil. And you can have a whole foods smoothie with fruits and greens and, you know, some sort of protein powder if you wanted to do that. And then similar for dinner, and then there's lots of things people can have. But also cultivating these feeling practices to be supportive of the parasympathetic. If we're speaking about my son, I'm so proud of him, because he ... I'll walk in his room sometimes (laughs) and he'll just be in, on the floor meditating. And that's ... We all should be doing that. It's completely free. It's accessible. None of us are good at it. That's why it's called a practice. And the people that say they're m- meditation isn't for them (laughs) -

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:22

       (laughs)

    8. WCDr Will Cole1:11:22

       ... they're probably the ones that should be doing it the most, because ... And I'm one of those people, that where our bri- brain is always going, that's why we should be flexing that mindfulness muscle, 'cause it's freaking weak. So, I don't know. Those are some things that I-

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:36

       That's impressive. I mean, you walk into your, your son's room and he's sat there meditating.

    10. WCDr Will Cole1:11:40

        (laughs) More than once, more than once.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:41

        At least that's what ... At least that's what you think he was doing. (laughs)

    12. WCDr Will Cole1:11:44

        (laughs)

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:44

        We're very good at hearing our father coming and quickly (whooshing sounds)

    14. WCDr Will Cole1:11:47

        (laughs) Get in the lotus position.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:51

        Yeah. (laughs)

    16. WCDr Will Cole1:11:51

        (laughs) Is that your trick, Sol?

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:55

        (laughs)

    18. WCDr Will Cole1:11:55

        (laughs) He's like, "And lotus position."

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:56

        (laughs)

    20. WCDr Will Cole1:11:56

        He has it down pat. (laughs)

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:59

        And what do, what do you struggle with? You know, 'cause, 'cause I always ask this question to, to people that know a lot about, uh, about subject matter, because I always think it's quite disarming to understand that they're imperfect too.

    22. WCDr Will Cole1:12:11

        Yeah.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:11

        So what do you struggle with as it relates to these

    24. NANarrator1:12:12

        Oh, man.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:13

        ... topics.

    26. WCDr Will Cole1:12:13

        I am, I am so imperfect. So I, I am ... And I'm prone to anxiety. I'm prone to thinking sort of frenetically of just like all the things I have to do and, um, not spending enough ... really not that much time at all focusing on the present moment. Back to why I suck at meditation. And that's okay. Like, I, I'm okay with that, because that's why I need to do it, um, and why I need to do it even more than the average person probably. So that's what I struggle with. It's really being grounded in the present moment. My mind is thinking about all the things I have to do, my team, my patients, my whatever, the next thing I have to do for the book or the podcast. So that's my ... My goal is to be better in that area.

12. 1:13:03 – 1:19:27

    The emotional impact of your career

    1. WCDr Will Cole1:13:03

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:03

       Has your work ever moved you to tears?

    3. WCDr Will Cole1:13:06

       Yeah. On a regular basis, actually.When you look at things that people go through, it makes you appreciative of life so much. When you see people that are doing all the things, that are really trying with all their heart to be healthy, and they get out of a dark place in their health, lose it all, um, and having trouble to find their way out of it, it is just a sacred responsibility for me to be there for them. But it's also hugely humbling, I think, of just the brevity of life, the fragility, the l- between, and the line between health and health problems, it does- is not lost on me at all. So, I tear up pretty qui- uh, consistently in a consult. It's normal for me to, to do that 'cause you're holding space for people that are going through heavy things and you're talking to them for hour, hour and a half at a time. Yeah. It's, uh, if you aren't (laughs) , you're pretty apathetic, I think, to this line of work that I do.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:18

       How, how do you manage that yourself and stop that from getting you down? We talked about stress.

    5. WCDr Will Cole1:14:23

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:23

       It seems like a pretty stressful position to be in.

    7. WCDr Will Cole1:14:25

       Yeah. It is. I think the first thing that comes to mind is a great support system, right? I think we all need that no matter what line of work that we're in or no, uh, no matter who you are. So for me, professionally, it's my team. So I can, I can really almost metabolize that heaviness with my team. I can go and talk with them about what happened. We can rift ideas. We can kind of get it out. We, by, kind of somatically like talking about it and these sort of ex- mutual experience, I think that we both, we all have, uh, on the patient team, specifically. So, that's it. And then, these practices, the, the, the practices that I talk about in Gut Feelings of just grounding practices, meditation, breathwork, getting out in nature, these things are non-negotiables for me because of, again, I talk about my (laughs) , my lack of presence sometimes and my focus on all the stuff instead of being, but also my line of work and the heaviness that comes along with it.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:28

       What, what does your future look like-

    9. WCDr Will Cole1:15:30

       Mm.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:30

        ... in your own view? Like, what does, when you think about your life, and I often think of my life in terms of, like, chapters.

    11. WCDr Will Cole1:15:35

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:36

        What is the next chapter in your, in your point of view, if you know it at all?

    13. WCDr Will Cole1:15:39

        Yeah. I, I don't know. I think it's just like, uh, many ways, it's like a TBD sort of thing. It's, I, uh, I've spent my career, thus far, really my nose to the ground, doing what I love, staying in my lane, if that makes sense, or just sort of relentlessly pursuing a passion that I've had that's really just been an outpouring. So, oh, I think of all the things that I'm doing now, talking with you right now, or writing a book, or having a podcast, or all this stuff is really just ripple effects of that main focus of just figuring out complex problems to people's health issues. So, I don't know where that will take me. But I, I haven't really, and I'm probably not the norm when it comes to people that are professional and doing all the things 'cause I didn't really (laughs) think that much about it other than just being of service to the person in front of me, or just, I mean, the, when I'm in a consult, that's all that's there. It's the consult that's there, and I'm focused on it. So, it, again, it's heavy to hold. But that's basically that all that I'm doing. Um, so I don't know. I mean, I had kids pretty young. And they're getting of age now, teenagers now. So, I'm thinking of, like, being able to spend these years with my wife in, like, newly weds, you know? So on a personal level, I'm kind of excited for that. I'm excited to, like, being a parent's hard. Running a business is hard. So, I'm excited to see them grow up and do the things that they're passionate about. And then, I know there's a lot more books in me and conversations to be had in the podcast, so I'm thinking of just continuing to do what I love to do.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:17:30

        How do you manage that when you become increasingly more and more successful? So, you know, the book sells really well. The next book sells really well. You do podcasts. It gets bigger and bigger. Everybody wants your time and attention. You've got-

    15. WCDr Will Cole1:17:41

        Mm-hmm.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:17:41

        ... all these opportunities flying at you. And with that comes this insidious, uh, thing called s- cr- stress.

    17. WCDr Will Cole1:17:49

        Mm-hmm.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:17:49

        Potentially chronic stress.

    19. WCDr Will Cole1:17:50

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:17:51

        So, how, I'm trying to figure out how, when you're successful at something, and the opportunity comes knocking over and over again, you're thinking about, you, you used the word earlier on boundaries-

    21. WCDr Will Cole1:18:00

        Mm-hmm.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:00

        ... creating a boundary, so you can balance both the-

    23. WCDr Will Cole1:18:04

        Mm-hmm.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:04

        ... I guess, the pursuit of purpose and the-

    25. WCDr Will Cole1:18:06

        Mm-hmm.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:06

        ... like, health and wellbeing of yourself?

    27. WCDr Will Cole1:18:09

        Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, t- uh, let me know if you've figured this out.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:13

        (laughs)

    29. WCDr Will Cole1:18:13

        (laughs) 'Cause I haven't, really.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:18:15

        That's why I'm asking you (laughs) .
13. 1:19:27 – 1:24:25

    Last guest’s question

    1. WCDr Will Cole1:19:27

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:19:27

       We, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest.

    3. WCDr Will Cole1:19:33

       Hmm.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:19:34

       And your question is here. Hmm. What is the most controversial idea you believe within your industry that most people disagree with?

    5. WCDr Will Cole1:19:46

       I have a pretty middle ground approach, sort of an inclusive approach, and I can normally find, I can normally find, um, a pragmatic understanding of, okay, it's, that's, that's the art of bio-individuality, right? It's, it's, yeah, but context matters-

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:20:06

       Mm-hmm.

    7. WCDr Will Cole1:20:06

       ... yeah, who are we talking about and how are they doing it? So I can think of just about anything in wellness where it doesn't work for one person, but it does work for another person. So I'm not a hardliner, I guess is what you would say. I, I really seen... And that's really 'cause all I do is talk to people about their health 10 hours a day, and just seeing a lot of variables out there. And it's really hard to be super dogmatic when you see a lot of nuance, a lot of variables, a lot of gray areas when it comes to somebody's health. So I don't know what I would say that's so controversial. I think that what we in functional medicine talk about is still controversial in some pockets of medicine, so we can put that a- aside. I think most people within health and wellness would agree with most the things I'd s- w- I say. I'm not super dogmatic one way or the other. My job is to find out what your body loves and what your body hates, and I don't really have a, a horse in the race when it comes to the specific ideologies, um, but I do feel like functional medicine gets a lot of, uh, blowback from conventional medicine. I talk about it in Gut Feelings, actually, the sort of, sort of, um, god complex that I think sometimes happens with, uh, the conventional medicine against functional medicine, and the idea that, you know, food is influential to somebody's health. I don't think that's controversial, but I still hear it from time to time, not super common these days, and it's increasing. It's, over the past 13 years, it's happening less and less, is that 13 years ago, it was so radical. I would get (laughs) phone calls at the clinic saying, "How dare you say that you could reverse Type 2 diabetes with food? How dare you say that food plays a role in many people's autoimmune conditions?" Now, I don't get those phone calls anymore, and we have a bigger platform than ever. So, I have a f- a feeling that it's just more normalized now. But it's still, I think... It's interesting to me, the pushback that some of us get within functional medicine with con- with conventional medicine. It's that they will say that we're quacks or we're woo-woo, but look, I bring it back to this point, is ultimately, the United States spends more on healthcare than the next 10 top-spending countries combined, yet we have the worst, we have the most disease and the shortest lifespan of all industrialized nations. So I think that when you look at those statistics, we have to realize we have to do something different to see something different. And when you look at the statistics, wha- what we do in functional medicine, it speaks for itself. We're getting people healthy, we are able to reduce and eliminate their need for medications when it's possible, and we're improving their quality of life. And I think it speaks loudly when you talk about mainstream institutions like the Cleveland Clinic opening up functional medicine centers. They're not opening it up. Millions of dollars of, of w- they're putting into these clinics off of quackery and woo-woo. They're doing it because the statistics and the data speak for itself. So I think you're on the wrong side of history if you still think functional medicine's controversial. It's not. We're getting people healthy. Healthy, shouldn't be controversial, and I think it says more about the system that's calling us controversial than it does about us, getting people healthy. So that's the first thing that comes to mind, is that still we have these sort of archaic dinosaurs critiquing a s- people that are keeping people healthy. But it'd be, it's almost like the analogy that I use in the book, it's like the, the, the pr- the s- the... I, uh, I use the analogy of school, is like you have the failing student judging the grade A student. And I feel like in many ways, that's sort of the, the pooh-poohing of functional medicine from conventional world. It's like, "Well, how dare you?" But yet look at the statistics. You have the worst healthcare system in the industrialized nation, but yet you're criticizing people that are trying to do something different to see something different.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:24:21

       Dr. Will Cole, thank you so much.

    9. WCDr Will Cole1:24:23

       Thank you, my friend.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:24:24

        Been a pleasure speaking to you.

Episode duration: 1:26:53