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The Diary of a CEOThe Diary of a CEO

Israel Adesanya: Becoming World Champion Was The Lowest Day Of My Life!

Israel Adesanya is the reigning UFC Middleweight champion, and one of the meanest fighters in the world right now. An international phenomenon, Israel brings us the exclusive on his path to the top like he’s never told it before. This weeks episode entitled 'Israel Adesanya: Becoming World Champion Was The Lowest Day Of My Life' topics: 0:00 Intro 04:28 Your early years 14:23 Impostor syndrome 18:38 Your great depression 29:59 Do you worry about what happens after all this is over? 34:11 How have you dealt with fame 37:18 Social media mob mentality 42:45 Being cancelled 51:54 How do you balance personal life and work? 59:47 Keeping the right people around you 01:08:05 What drives you now? 01:14:51 Are you happy? 01:25:23 The last guests question Isreal: https://twitter.com/stylebender https://www.instagram.com/stylebender/ Listen on: Apple podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-diary-of-a-ceo-by-steven-bartlett/id1291423644 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7iQXmUT7XGuZSzAMjoNWlX FOLLOW ► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steven/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/SteveBartlettSC Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-bartlett-56986834/ Sponsors: Huel - https://my.huel.com/Steven Craftd - https://bit.ly/3LLgrwj

Steven BartletthostIsrael Adesanyaguest
Mar 17, 20221h 28mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 4:28

    Intro

    1. SB

      Could you do me a quick favor if you're listening to this? Please hit the follow or subscribe button. It helps more than you know, and we invite subscribers in every month to watch the show in person.

    2. IA

      Introducing the interim UFC Middleweight Champion, Israel Adesanya! Oh, shit. I know when it's all said and done, when I'm dead, my name will be remembered in history.

    3. SB

      Why does that matter?

    4. IA

      Guys like us, we're not meant to fit in, we're meant to stand out. But I've felt it. It's addicting, so I need to do something that's gonna just tame the beast. If not, it's gonna seep in other ways that I wouldn't want it to in my life.

    5. SB

      Are you happy?

    6. IA

      I think 2013 was my great depression. I wasn't able to fight and then I just felt like I don't deserve it. This world, one thing I've seen, they'll build you up and then tear you down. People naturally just wanna see you fail. I had to take a hard look at myself and I put that pressure on myself, like, "Watch this." I don't feel like I have anything to hide. I put things out there that I probably shouldn't sometimes, but that's my way of being vulnerable, where I'm just like, "This is me."

    7. SB

      So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. Israel.

    8. IA

      Yes.

    9. SB

      Thank you for being here. Massive inspiration for me in so many ways, and I've watched your, your rise over the years with, with inspiration and, um, admiration for so many reasons. Reason number one, we have a, I, I guess a shared heritage in the fact-

    10. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    11. SB

      ... that we're both from-

    12. IA

      Omo Naija.

    13. SB

      I'm half Nigerian, you're Nigerian as well. And-

    14. IA

      Yes, sir.

    15. SB

      And your story, as I read it, it sounded so bizarrely like my story in so many ways. And then the other, I mean, I could... there, there's an exhaustive list of reasons why you've inspired me personally. But then seeing what you've done with yourself as a brand, as a marketeer-

    16. IA

      Mm.

    17. SB

      ... again, inspired me in a completely different way.

    18. IA

      (laughs)

    19. SB

      And I'll never forget, and I played it for my girlfriend last night.

    20. IA

      Mm.

    21. SB

      Your entrance against Robert Whittaker.

    22. IA

      The first time.

    23. SB

      The first time.

    24. IA

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    25. SB

      And I'm like, "This guy is breaking the rules."

    26. IA

      Yeah, the entrance. Um, for me, that was, uh, I felt like that was my way of staying away from the fight in a way, 'cause I know that night Robert was just like stewing over the fight.

    27. SB

      Yeah.

    28. IA

      He was sleeping. He wouldn't be... no, no, he wasn't sleeping, I'm sure. He was just worried about the fight, thinking about the fight, just thinking about... But for me, I was literally, like, fell asleep with my phone in my hand watching my rehearsals for that entrance like, "This is gonna look sick. Replay." Probably replayed it like 60 times the night before, and I fell asleep with my phone in my hand watching that, just the rehearsals. So it was like, there was no paralysis over analysis. I was just like focused on how sick that was gonna look.

    29. SB

      Mm.

    30. IA

      And it was fun for me. It was my way of authentically expressing myself with my roots and dancing and just being creative. So when it was time to show out, you know, I showed out, you know.

  2. 4:28 – 14:23

    Your early years

    1. IA

    2. SB

      Speaking of entrances then, you were born in Nigeria.

    3. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      Um, as I said, I'm half Nigerian. And then you moved to New Zealand. What, what was the reason why your parents decided to take you out of Nigeria and move you to another country?

    5. IA

      I think it was, um, initially better recognized tertiary education, 'cause you know, I mean, when I'm in New Zealand, I, sometimes I'll be, you know, talking to a cab driver and you find out that he was medical doctor back in Sri Lanka or back in India.

    6. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    7. IA

      And then moved over to, you know, NZ or the Western world for a "better life". And their rec- their qualifications aren't recognized in the Western world, you know, but they're a surgeon or something crazy back home, so then they have, they're forced to take these, um, I guess, menial jobs or start up a new business. And yeah, they wanted us to have better recognized tertiary education. Yeah, worked out all right for me.

    8. SB

      But you were really smart anyway in, in Nigeria. When you got, when you got to New Zealand, you were smarter than the class. I remember you saying that they thought you were some kind of like-

    9. IA

      Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, no. But that was like the l- that was in Form One. I remember like it was, um, we were doing the two times table and I was just like... (fingers thumping) Yeah. (laughs) I knew the song off my head.

    10. SB

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    11. IA

      << Two times one << done with the... Finished, and I remember when I finished, everyone was like, "Whoa." Like, and I'm, I'm the, I'm the runt of our people, trust me. Like, I'm not the smartest, you know, kid in the class back in Nigeria. So when that happened, I was just like, "I, what, what's up with these kids? Like, this is easy. This is light work." I did Form One actually three times. So I did it first time wh- when I was 10 years old.... in Nigeria, a girls' boarding school. And then when I moved to Ghana for about a year and bit, I had to do... No, about... Yeah, ne- a year and a bit, I had to do Primary 6 and then Form One again. And then when I moved to New Zealand, I had to do Form One again. Then I skipped Form Two, and then went straight to Form Three.

    12. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    13. IA

      'Cause it was... I just kept in... They were like, "Oh, he's too young." You know, "He can't-"

    14. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    15. IA

      And each country was like, "Oh, he's too young to be in Form One," so yeah. Uh, but I wasn't, like... I wasn't the most academically gifted kid. I'm smart, but I'm smart in different ways. Yeah.

    16. SB

      When, um, when I was reading about your story, the, the other part that really resonated with me was we c- we came from Botswana-

    17. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    18. SB

      ... and we moved to a place called Plymouth in Devon and Cornwall-

    19. IA

      Oh, okay.

    20. SB

      ... which is like a farmland. It's like if you go four hours-

    21. IA

      A rural area.

    22. SB

      Yeah.

    23. IA

      Yep.

    24. SB

      You're four hours into the r- the, the, the end of the country that way-

    25. IA

      Yeah.

    26. SB

      ... where it's all cows and fields.

    27. IA

      Yep.

    28. SB

      And all white people.

    29. IA

      Yeah.

    30. SB

      That's where we moved, and we're the only Black family. My mum's Nigerian-

  3. 14:23 – 18:38

    Impostor syndrome

    1. IA

    2. SB

      As I was reading through your story, and you know, you s- you sit here as this unbelievable UFC champion, and then as I read through your story, there's all these little subtle hints of what almost sounds a bit like imposter syndrome-

    3. IA

      Mm-hmm. (laughs)

    4. SB

      ... at certain times. Like, this guy not believing that he's deserving of what he's achieved. And it's ... it really sits in contradiction to-

    5. IA

      Who I am.

    6. SB

      ... the guy that did that back flip coming out against Rob Whittaker.

    7. IA

      Yeah. (laughs)

    8. SB

      So I'm like, "Where did that come from?" Tell me about that.

    9. IA

      Um, s- I think some of ... just same thing, trauma, childhood trauma, some of that stuff. Um, I've dealt with it very well now (sniffs) to the point where it's like, there was times, um ... I used as an example when I ... I was thinking, who'd I sp- ... I was speaking to Forbes not long ago, and we, we dived into this a little bit. So when I, when I beat Rob, right, uh, one of my gifts to myself, I bought myself a McLaren 720S.

    10. SB

      Nice.

    11. IA

      And (smacks lips) I, um ... The first day I got it, I remember I drove to the gym, and this is at peak, you know, time at the gym, maybe 6:00, 5:30 PM or whatever, and I didn't park it at the front of the gym. I parked it at the back of the gym, and I showed some of my teammates, like my close, close actual teammates.

    12. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    13. IA

      Not the people that go to the gym. 'Cause sometimes there's a lot of people who like to be like, "Oh, I'm his real teammate." It's like, "No, you just go to the same gym as me, doesn't mean we're teammates." So I parked it at the back of the gym, and then after my teammates finished working out, I was like, "Yo, come check this out." And I showed them, and I was like, like, "Fuck, look at this shit." Like, 'cause they know how ... the work I put in. I, I work hard, but then I'm like, "Man, I'm not the, I'm not the best student in the gym, so imagine if I can do this, imagine what they can do." So I kinda just, just to share the ... share my joy. And then, you know, unfortunately, especially in New Zealand, there's this tall poppy syndrome and there's that green-eyed monster. And I've been that kid, so I, I ... it's easy for me to recognize it in other people when you've, when you've had it with yourself. Um, so someone said something, you know, "Oh, must be nice," and I started to hear rumblings of, "I know, it happens." Uh, you ... Uh, for me, it was the same thing. I was just like, "Man, I didn't expect that from someone that I cared about to, to have that kinda rhetoric, like uh." And then I heard, like, you know, maybe, you know, like, other people, they're more deserving people.

    14. SB

      What?

    15. IA

      I know, yeah. And they kinda just pissed me off.

    16. SB

      There's more deserving people?

    17. IA

      Yeah, at the gym, because they work harder than me, rah-rah-rah. And like I said, I didn't ... If I wanted to flex, I would've parked it in the front of the gym, like, you know, "Look at my new whip."

    18. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    19. IA

      And just to, like, flex, just show off or whatever. But nah, I parked it in the back of the gym where only, like, seven people saw it, and they're seven people that I really give a fuck about. And I wanted them to see, like, "Look, look at this shit," like, "Fuck, if I can do this, imagine what you can do." So when I heard that, I didn't drive it for a week. I just, I just felt shit driving it. I remember driving it home and I just felt like shit. And I just parked it in the garage, and I just left it there for a week. I didn't drive it because I felt ... L- I, I let those words from that person I gave a fuck about seep into me, and then it, it sat with me, and then I just felt like, "Oh yeah, me, I don't deserve it," you know? "You know, other people work harder than me at the gym," this and that, rah-rah-rah. But then it took, like I said, about a week, over that week, 'cause I mean, it was a fucking sick car, I literally didn't drive it for a week (sniffs) , and it got to the point that I realized during that week that, towards the end, like, "Well, that's subjective. If they don't think I deserve it, that's their own opinion, that's subjective, that's what they believe. I don't have to believe that." And like you said, that is ... That, that imposter syndrome thing started to creep in. I was like, "Look, maybe they don't think I deserve it, but one thing no one can ever take away from me is that I earned it. Every fucking thing I have, I earned it, and I earned this fucking whip, and I have a right to drive this thing and flex." And once I got over that hurdle in my head, boom, I was in that bitch and I was whipping it around.But yeah, it's that, like, that imposter syndrome thing creep- crept in when I heard that from... And it was through the grapevine as well, but then it was from someone I really like, uh, uh, I was like, "Man, why would he say that?" I just, uh, I just- and, and people learn, this is over now. This is a long time ago, you know-

    20. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    21. IA

      ... this Whitaker fight. But it's something that w- it said more about them than it does about me. You know what I mean? It s- it says more about them than it does about me, so I shouldn't have let that affect me at all. But I did because I gave a fuck what that person thought, because they're a close person to me. And unfortunately, sometimes it's the ones close to you that'll hurt you with that. Yeah.

  4. 18:38 – 29:59

    Your great depression

    1. IA

    2. SB

      There's something really remarkably sort of liberating and amazing to hear a UFC champion talking about imposter syndrome because it really does fe- feel like, it feels like there's no- and this is, I know this is an obvious misconception-

    3. IA

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      ... but it really doesn't feel like someone with your swag and confidence could feel those things.

    5. IA

      Yeah. Yeah.

    6. SB

      Um, you talked there about therapy as well.

    7. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    8. SB

      And when you spoke to, to Joe Rogan about therapy-

    9. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    10. SB

      ... and about after your UFC debut-

    11. IA

      Yeah.

    12. SB

      ... that swell you went through. I wrote about this in my book.

    13. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    14. SB

      Because I, I got really compelled by the, this really bizarre thing that happened in my life when my company joined the stock market and I'm sat in my room-

    15. IA

      Yeah.

    16. SB

      ... in Manchester and it's worth $300 million and I'm figuring out how much money that means I've got.

    17. IA

      Yeah.

    18. SB

      And it feeling like the worst day of my life. And then when I, you know, heard you talking a little bit about how you felt after your UFC fight, hiding in the toilet when people are pestering you to ask you questions-

    19. IA

      Oh, yeah, yeah.

    20. SB

      ... and that annoying dude sitting down next to you (laughs) when you're trying to hide.

    21. IA

      Oh, bro, yeah. After my UFC debut, uh, the after-party, it was a... After the fight, it's always, like I say, I get pulled in so many different directions and it's just like, it was my first time in the UFC so I, I was my first time experiencing all that. And it's like coffee, y- it's a stimulant. Coffee's a stimulant. So after your UFC debut and you shine like the way I did, you know, I, I wa- I stole the show. I came in and I stole the show and it was just like, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh. Cameras this, "Oh, we need you to interview this person. Oh, come talk to this person. Talk to this person." Da da da da da. And then I didn't get time to myself till I got back home. And when I was back home and I was in my own house and finally away from all the noise and it's just like, hoo. And then I remember, it's like coffee. You drink coffee, you're, you got the coffee high and then you crash. So it's literally that, like, just lack of the stimulant and I just crashed. And I was like, "Why am I sad?" I just found myself being really sad. And I remember do- it's probably on my old phone, me documenting my recovery 'cause I was just like, like video diaries that is. I was like, "Why am I sad?" Like, I made six figures on my UFC debut. That's including the bonus as well.

    22. SB

      Oh, that's far.

    23. IA

      Yeah. And I'm just like, "There's no need to be sad. I fucking killed that shit." And that's when I started to kind of like take therapy seriously because okay, this is not, I'm not gonna be one of these bad statistics, you know, that you hear about in the, in, in entertainment. So yeah, I, um, I had to, I guess, take a, take a, take a hard look at myself. But then therapy helped with that 'cause then you find the right person who can kinda help you, I guess, figure you out. And all they do is just ask you the right questions and just show you, I guess, yourself. Yeah.

    24. SB

      Can you... 'Cause I heard you say that you picked up tools from therapy that helped-

    25. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    26. SB

      ... you sort of navigate all of that attention in this new position you were in. What were the tools?

    27. IA

      Oh, so, um, it wasn't until I fought Brunson that I was able to go back home and just kinda like, um... I keep saying it's like I came back from prison. Uh, what do you call that? Like, weave back into society-

    28. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    29. IA

      ... regular life normally. You know?

    30. SB

      Mm-hmm.

  5. 29:59 – 34:11

    Do you worry about what happens after all this is over?

    1. SB

      one. Do you, do you worry about that when, when all is said and done, like, you're, you're gonna have these crazy moments of having like 60,000 people in this arena and coming out doing these like-

    2. IA

      Mm-hmm. I'm ready for it.

    3. SB

      You know, and then-

    4. IA

      I'm ready for it.

    5. SB

      ... the high of that, the adrenaline high of that-

    6. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    7. SB

      ... when that's all, when you're, you know, when you're done with this game, you said, you know, when you lose the love of the game or whatever it is-

    8. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    9. SB

      ... do you, do you...Do you pon- do you ponder what that moment would be like for you?

    10. IA

      A little bit, but I- I'm, I'm ready for it in the sense that I'm not attached to this. I've already, I know I'm more than fighting. Fighting, there's more to life than fighting, so I'm not like one of these guys who is attached, like, you know. I don't even know where my belt is right now, to be honest. I really don't know. I'm, I'm not attached to it. I know I'm the fucking champ. I know I'm, who I am. I know who I am, and I'm a champ without the belt. It's just a fancy tiara. I've said that from the jump. But I'm not attached to it to the sense that it's my identity, that this is all I am. So when it's all said and done, and I'm, you know, I'm not the UFC Middleweight Champ anymore, I'm retired, I'm not gonna be like, "Who, who am I?" I know who I am without the belt. So that's the, that's the blessing in that. But a lot of people don't. A lot of people, like you see them walk around with the belt constantly, and they just, they're attached to that like that's who they are. So when it's gone and it's said and done, a l- that's why a lot of people who are supposed to be retired still end up talking to the media and finding a way to get their, um, name in the, in, in the s- you know, in the spotlight, because they're, they're addicted to that. It's addicting. Trust me. I've been there. I've, I've felt it. It's addicting. Attention. That's the, that's the social currency now. Attention, even at the highest level. Fame, clout. This is all, these are, these are tangible things. I've seen it. I've seen what it does to people, man.

    11. SB

      (laughs)

    12. IA

      Funny story. I saw this, um ... When I was in New York I fought Brunson, right? That week I saw this YouTube video of a guy in Times Square, in New York. He was there regular, easy, didn't, you know, just walking around, didn't get bothered. And then he went there at nighttime, hired an entourage, hired camera people, and dressed the part.

    13. SB

      I saw that.

    14. IA

      That clip.

    15. SB

      I saw that clip.

    16. IA

      And people were like starting to like, "Who's this guy?" And then-

    17. SB

      Fake famous dude.

    18. IA

      Exactly. Fake famous guy. And they're like, "Oh," and then the camera guy will ask them, "So how do you know, uh, David?" And someone will be like, "Uh, I, I heard his last album. It was pretty good." Or, "I heard a single on the radio," or, "I saw him in Spider-Man." People just lie through their teeth, you know, and just say whatever they think he is. And it's like, you don't, you obviously don't know the guy. You can just say, "Oh, I don't know who he is."

    19. SB

      (laughs)

    20. IA

      You know? And I've had that. So when that day, that, uh, sorry, that, that week in, in New York, I was doing a shoot for my brand Engage in Times Square. I had Jeff and like three other cameras on me, so there's like four cameras on me. He sees people starting to gather around like, "Oh, who's this guy?" And then some people recognize me and they, they start taking pictures, and then before I knew it, now I start finding people who didn't even know me.

    21. SB

      Yeah.

    22. IA

      And they're just like, "I just want to take a picture."

    23. SB

      Have you ever had someone come up to you, I had this when we went to the Podcast Awards-

    24. IA

      Yep. Yesterday.

    25. SB

      And they go, "Hi, um, who are you?"

    26. IA

      Yeah.

    27. SB

      And I go, "Oh, um, Dragon from Dragon's Den." They go-

    28. IA

      Bruv.

    29. SB

      "Okay." (laughs)

    30. IA

      Oh, man. It's the worst.

  6. 34:11 – 37:18

    How have you dealt with fame

    1. SB

      how, how have you made sense with all this, this noise? When you, you walk through places and-

    2. IA

      Fuck the noise, as that said.

    3. SB

      But, but the f- the fame, like what's your relationship, relationship with it? I was thinking about this the other night and I was talking to s- one of my friends, and I was thinking for me it's kind of just this thing that's happening outside of me.

    4. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SB

      And I'm observing it like a spectator, but-

    6. IA

      Oh, I like that. I like that perspective.

    7. SB

      You know what I mean?

    8. IA

      There's no book on this shit, so I've always said like, "Fuck the fame, but I love the perks."

    9. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    10. IA

      I love the perks of fame, but I just, I don't like being famous, you know what I mean?

    11. SB

      Why?

    12. IA

      Have you seen Free Britney?

    13. SB

      Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    14. IA

      Brother, there was a bit in that-

    15. SB

      Yeah.

    16. IA

      That was one of my w- like I was getting anxiety watching the first half of that. There was a bit she was driving and then she ran through these red lights and the guys were like, "Look at her. She's crazy." I'm like, "Yeah, 'cause you're fucking chasing her. You're chasing her. She's trying to get the fuck away from you, and you're calling her crazy." Man, that whole thing, just the way she, when she was trying to buy gas and everyone was just on her. Uh, I even cringe thinking about it, because I'm just like, I would hate, I would've, I would hate to be in that position, man. Especially like to be with your family, like your family doing that to you. That's crazy. But yeah, um, fame. It's not, it's not ... No one's supposed to be famous. It's not a thing, especially with all these gadgets now. We're not supposed to have these. We're not supposed to have, um, people who don't do shit with their lives have such a loud voice in droves, being able to tell us. 'Cause back in the day, I saw this quote on Instagram, um, yes, uh, it may be last week or this week, about like, you know, back in the day before social media, you only heard from doers. You heard from people who were actually doing shit. You rarely heard from complainers. But now complainers are the ones you hear from the most, because they finally have a voice and they, they can be anonymous and hide behind their, their anonymity. So yeah, they're the ones who have the big, the big voice now, and the doers are just doing. So people start to eventually believe the complainers, and it's a weird paradox shift now, in, in this day and age. So like I said, you have to be able to sift through the noise, and I have my ways of doing that.

    17. SB

      And I guess you'd also only hear, if you go back even further, from people in your tribe.Right.

    18. IA

      Exactly. We're only suppos- there's, there's, we're only supposed to have, like, certain amount of people-

    19. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    20. IA

      ... we associate with as, as the human animal.

    21. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    22. IA

      But then, like, social media and the connectivity we have now has just made us connected to the whole world, made the world a small place that you can just ... Even confirmation bias, that's another thing we have to be careful about.

    23. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    24. IA

      Like, and I, I make sure, 'cause I follow certain people on Instagram that I don't necessarily agree with.

    25. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    26. IA

      But I follow them just to, like, hear the other side. I wanna know-

    27. SB

      Amen.

    28. IA

      ... just to, like ... 'Cause I don't wanna be surrounded by yes men or people, like, "Oh, I only follow, uh, you know, this 'cause this tells me what I need to know-"

    29. SB

      And that could change that.

    30. IA

      "... and what I wanna hear." Exactly.

  7. 37:18 – 42:45

    Social media mob mentality

    1. IA

    2. SB

      And that kind of brings me to what I heard you say about Rogan when you defended him-

    3. IA

      Mm-hmm, yeah.

    4. SB

      ... because Rogan's one of those people for me as well, like, I can listen to his shows and his co- his, his podcasts and stuff-

    5. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SB

      ... and I don't have to agree with everything.

    7. IA

      Of course.

    8. SB

      But there's a diverse-

    9. IA

      Or his guests, his guests, know what I'm saying?

    10. SB

      Yeah, I don't have to agree with his guests, that's what it means.

    11. IA

      Yeah.

    12. SB

      But there's a diversity of opinion.

    13. IA

      Yeah.

    14. SB

      So I can ... And I feel like people these days, as we've all observed, they don't want to hear anything outside of their own ... It's, it's either left or right and it's, uh, the other side is wrong.

    15. IA

      Yeah.

    16. SB

      And if ... And there's nothing in the middle.

    17. IA

      Right.

    18. SB

      And, and if you say one thing that represents the other side, like-

    19. IA

      They just try to put you in a box straight away.

    20. SB

      Yep.

    21. IA

      But that's the thing, I'm, I'm like the ... This whole fucking situation we have with COVID now and what we're doing to society is strange times, man, 'cause people are just ... The human animal is weird. It's a weird-

    22. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    23. IA

      ... fucking species. 'Cause, uh, individually, we can be smart, but when we in droves, just, just, just dummies.

    24. SB

      (laughs)

    25. IA

      Just a bunch of dummies and droves sometimes. I'm like, "How can a smart person have this idea about this?" When you know what's really happening, you really, it's like if you, if you really step away from it, like you said, just remove yourself from the situation and look at it from a third person as, as, as an observer, just watch it and just be like, "I know what that is." But then somehow, the smartest people I've, I know sometimes just have the weirdest way of looking at the world. And I try not to hold it against them 'cause I'm like, "I know you, you're a smart person, but maybe the way you were brought up or your own childhood trauma, again, can kinda skew the way you look at the world." So I never hold it against them, I just kinda like ... (inhales through teeth) It's not personal, it's not about me, it's about them.

    26. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    27. IA

      So just observe. But yeah, it's weird, man. Very weird, very strange.

    28. SB

      And they're just, I guess, trying to fit in too. They're trying to be part of a tribe.

    29. IA

      Yeah. Oh, exactly, tribe, yeah.

    30. SB

      Yeah.

  8. 42:45 – 51:54

    Being cancelled

    1. SB

      you.

    2. IA

      (clicks tongue) That's it.

    3. SB

      When you said at the start about the cartwheel, you, you said, you know, you just wanted to be authentically yourself.

    4. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SB

      And this kind of links to what we're saying now, f- when I, when I was, I joined BBC One as, uh, a dragon, I started thinking about how I defend myself from the inevitability of being canceled.

    6. IA

      Mm. Try me.

    7. SB

      Either for the people that I speak to here ... Yeah, and one of the ways that I kind of concluded with my team was-

    8. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    9. SB

      ... well, if I'm always myself and I don't ever try and convince the press that I'm a good guy (snaps fingers) (laughs) -

    10. IA

      Well, this, so this is where, this is the, this is the trap that a guy like Jon Jones fell into, 'cause he was always like m- the pastor's son-

    11. SB

      Yeah.

    12. IA

      ... and he was always like, "You know, uh, um, after our fight, I wanna thank Jesus," you know, ra-ratata. "You know, I wanna be sponsored by Nike, and you know, all kids, you know, I wanna be someone kids look up to, I wanna be a good r- role model." Ra-ratara. Fuck them kids, fuck all that shit, you know what I mean? I'm like, bro, people try to say like, "Oh, you know, my kid looks up to you." I'm like, "Raise your own damn kids."

    13. SB

      (laughs)

    14. IA

      "Raise your own damn kids," you know? Like one thing's, uh, after my UFC debut, some guy saw at my after party I had this shirt, right? It said Good Cunt, from Engage. Classic, sold, still s- big seller. And some guy-

    15. SB

      (laughs) Big seller.

    16. IA

      Oh, straight up. It was the beautiful shirt, like, and also it was like a r- a play on a famous designer brand, GC, like-

    17. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    18. IA

      Yeah, so we, we, we, uh, we sold those. We still sell them, he ... But, um, this guy came up to me and he was interviewing me at my own after party, and I could see he was trying to set me up. So then he's like, "Oh, so what do you, yeah, so what do you think a T-shirt like that sends? What kind of message does it send?" I'm like, "What do you mean?" And then he didn't, he thought he fucked with the, he fucked with the wrong one, this one. So he's like, "What do you think that kinda shirt sends as a message to say for example, a young, a young kid who looks up to you?" And I was just like, "Oh, really? Oh, so what does that kid look, look up to me for?" He's like, "Well, for being in your position." "As a what?" "A fighter, right?" "Yes, so that kid just saw what I did about a few hours ago when I beat the fuck out of that guy," and he, he saw where I was taking him, but he's just like, "No, no, no, no, no." And I was like, "Stay there," and I could see him trying to find a way out, "No, no." So that kid just watched me beat this fucking guy to a pulp in his own blood as he spat blood at me, and I beat him in his own blood till the referee dragged me off him. "Yeah? Oh, really? So what do you think is doing more damage to the kid-"

    19. SB

      (laughs)

    20. IA

      "... is, is, is me doing that and w- as, and the kid looking up to me for that, or me wearing a shirt that just says Good Cunt?"

    21. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    22. IA

      It's this whole fucking culture of like stupid language games you can say that word, and that's a bad word, and this and that. So, and then I, I, I can't remember how I flamed him, but I flamed him. There was a bit of an audience as well. I flamed him badly. He never released the, the interview obviously, because he had nothing left to stand on.

    23. SB

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good story though, yeah.

    24. IA

      But he thought he had me, but he didn't realize he fucked with the wrong one. And I just told him, I was like, "I think me doing my job does more damage to the kid for watching than me wearing a shirt that says Good Cunt." You know what I mean? And I hate that, the fact that we're playing these ... 'Cause even when I do s- I don't do New Zealand media anymore, 'cause they're too fucking stupid for me, and too ... Like I did this morning show one time, and I was talking and I said blah, blah, blah, something, assis- uh, "Uh, that's a swear, swear jar, swear jar." I'm like, "What the fuck is this, high school?"

    25. SB

      (laughs)

    26. IA

      I'm like, "I'm an adult. I know you. I've seen you at fucking Ponsonby Social Club drunk off your face. I know what you do in the bathroom." You know what I mean? So I'm just like, "Don't try and act like you're holier than thou now when like, oh, you put that in the swear jar." (laughs)

    27. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    28. IA

      It's like let's whippour- what, what, what game are we playing? You're playing this stupid game that's like, oh, we can say these words, but we can't say these words. Like you're an adult. When the cameras go off, I know how the fuck you speak.

    29. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    30. IA

      I know how you talk. You know?

  9. 51:54 – 59:47

    How do you balance personal life and work?

    1. IA

      talk. It's fun."

    2. SB

      But have you found it difficult, because of the success and the meteoric rise and the money and the-

    3. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      ... increased attention, to, to navigate being good in that department? And also, your obsession with becoming the man you are today, which did feel like an obsession when I was reading about your story-

    5. IA

      Yeah.

    6. SB

      ... sleeping in the gym.

    7. IA

      Yeah.

    8. SB

      Like, how does one do that and also balance out having-

    9. IA

      Personal life?

    10. SB

      Yeah.

    11. IA

      Ah, it's regular. I'm a, I'm a human being, and I have feelings, you know. So... I'm an empath as well. I'm, um-

    12. SB

      Are you?

    13. IA

      Yeah. I'm born on the cusp, so I'm like... I say (laughs) I'm a Cancer-Lio. I'm hard and soft, like a semi-Chub, you know?

    14. SB

      Introvert-extrovert.

    15. IA

      Exactly. My guy. So, a lot of people don't realize that about myself. Like, when it's time to, like, go in my, in my, in my crab hole, I just find my way. I'm like, "Right, leave me..." This is what... I love my friends, because my close friends, I can... We can do this for hours and just yarn and talk shit and make fun of each other and just show each other love. But then we can spend the next three hours just sitting in the same room, me being on my phone or watching TV or listening to a podcast and not say a damn word and just enjoy each other's space. I love that. I love that feeling. But, um, yeah, I- I'm a person who, who feels a lot, so I like to protect that. I like to keep that really guarded, 'cause like I said, the world will take that away from you, man. And I feel like people ruin things, people. Especially, like, this, this... This is not supposed to happen, the world not being under a microscope and everyone watching what I'm doing. So, certain things I just ha- I feel like I just have to really protect, 'cause I don't want the world to take that away from me, 'cause they just take, take. My cat died, um, maybe two years ago. The, the morning she died, right, I was... I think I was filling gas up in the afternoon, and some guy came up while I'm filling gas and goes, "Brother, bro, can you talk to my cousin real quick? He's a big fan." I'm just like, "Man... Bro, my cat just died this morning, man. I'm really not in the mood." And I remember the look on his face just like, "Oh. Oh, yeah. All good, all good, whatever." And I was just like, "Ugh, give me the phone." I said, "Hello?" And this is as I'm filling gas actively. And I was like, "What the f- Hold up. Bro, no phones." Like, what, what if I spontaneously co- But, but they don't care. They just wanna have their moment. They wanna take, they wanna take, they wanna take. So that's why if I'm having dinner with my family, if I'm on a date, if I'm in the intimate moment and people start to, like... "Bro, I don't wanna be that guy," but I'm like, "But y- you're being that guy. You're being that guy."

    16. SB

      Mm-hmm. (laughs)

    17. IA

      You say you don't wanna be that guy, but you're being that guy.

    18. SB

      That's like when people say, "I'm not a racist. I've got bi-..." Yeah. (laughs)

    19. IA

      Yeah. Oh, yeah. Bro, it's the worst, man.

    20. SB

      But-

    21. IA

      It's like, "Oh, I hate to be that guy, but could I..." But I'm like, "Bro, you're being that guy. You hate to be that guy?"

    22. SB

      Yeah.

    23. IA

      "Bro, you're doing it right now."

    24. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    25. IA

      And it's like, "I'll be having lunch with you, and within-"... 10 minutes, we'll get stopped probably, like, six times. With you, I'm probably, if we're, if we're at lunch in London, we'll probably not even have a chance to talk. But they don't care, they just wanna get their picture and put it on their fucking social media with fucking 20 followers saying, "Oh, look, I met the champ," or like, whatever. I'm just like, "No, let me have my moment." I'm, I'm ... And I've learnt this. Uh, okay, my experience with this, and I always bring this up whenever I see him on, on, on TV or hear his raps, Mos Def. I seen Mos Def and Common in Auckland Airport, and they're having a conversation by the, by the back carousel. And I f- I won a fight in Adelaide and I'm coming back home, I had my trophy, and I was like, "Yo, I want to get a picture." And I pull up to him, I'm like, "Hey, what's up, Mos Def, big fan." And he's like, "Hey, brother, just no photos today, man." I was just like, "Yeah, all good, no worries, easy." And I remember I was a bit sad, but I understood. I understood, because they were in the bidd- in the middle of a conversation, actively talking. I should've had the etiquette to realize like, just, they're talking, leave them alone.

    26. SB

      Mm.

    27. IA

      But this is the thing, no one ... And I feel like it's learnt behavior as well. That's the one thing that ... Because I ... Everyone thinks they're your biggest fan. It's the same rhetoric. I, I know the lines they're gonna say each time. But like, it's learnt behavior. I don't know, I think it's maybe from TV or Disney or whatever, people feel like when, when you meet someone you really, you're a fan of, you yell at them to let them know how much of a fan you are, and you show them by just shaking and da, da, da, da. That's, that's ... I honestly think it's learnt behavior, 'cause there, um, sometimes I'm, uh, I'm like, "There's no need for all this." I'll be at like a three, I'm chilling at a two or three at a park, and some, "No fucking way. Oh my God. Ah." And I'm just like, (sighs) okay. Like after the Whittaker fight, the first one, I remember after that whole, the fight, after the afterparty on the way back to the, uh, back to New Zealand, I remember at the airport, I put out a story just saying like, "Look, if you see me at the airport or traveling, just approach me lightly, 'cause if you come at me with all this energy, I'll walk away." I put that on my story just 'cause I was like, "I'll walk away," 'cause my capacity to deal with high energy right now was just, mm-mm.

    28. SB

      How were you feeling?

    29. IA

      I was just drained. I was drained, so I was just like, "I just wanna go home and chill." So I remember at the airport, I just, I was ... Or before, at the hotel, I put a, uh, before I went to the airport, I just put that out there on the story just to be like, "Look, don't come at me with all this shit, 'cause it's too much for me to deal with right now. So if you come at me just like, 'Hey, what's up, bro? Big fan, can I take a photo?' That's cool." And I remember that fight week, the week before the fight week, I realized, I, I had an epiphany, I realized I don't have to match everyone's energy. 'Cause that was a problem I used to, like, if you're a fan, you'd meet me and then I'd feel, "Hey." Even if I met at, like I said, my cat just died, then I'd have to, like, raise my level up, "Hey, what's up, bro? Hey, hey, hey," do the whole song and dance-

    30. SB

      (laughs)

  10. 59:47 – 1:08:05

    Keeping the right people around you

    1. SB

      it. And you keep your boys and your, the people you came up with close, right?

    2. IA

      Very, very.

    3. SB

      Well, tell me about the import- how, how much you've realized the importance of that as you've risen to this place, you know, to keep the day ones around you and-

    4. IA

      Yeah.

    5. SB

      ... stuff like that.

    6. IA

      I mean, you, you'll notice it's lonely at the top, you know? But it's not if you bring the right people with you. The people that came up with you, the people that, you know, love you for you, you know? The people that know you from before you had money, before you were famous, you know? So, um, I like to have them around to keep me grounded. To keep me grounded and just make sure I'm, I'm solid, 'cause they knew me before any of this shit happened, and, you know, uh, it's hard, 'cause sometimes you, I, I've, I have fallen into the trap of having people who just agree with me. Yes men. You know? And even my boy, Chance, I'm glad, like, I have him around, 'cause sometimes ... I'm crazy. I don't always have the best ideas, and I'll have an idea and he'll be like, "Nah." But okay, cool, I just needed someone to tell me no-But I'll put it out there. But if he says, "Nah, we're not doing that." I'm like, "Okay, cool." 'Cause then it just helps me. But if, if I have people around me who are just like, "Uh, okay, sure."

    7. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    8. IA

      Then eventually it just makes me more powerful and I just like to think like, "Oh, yeah. You know, I'm the shit-"

    9. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    10. IA

      "... I can say whatever I want." And that's not, that's not healthy, man. I don't think that's healthy for the ego, you know?

    11. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    12. IA

      Yeah. But I just like having people like that around me, because I feel like, yeah, they keep me grounded and just remind me where I come from, you know? They're ... And there's so many stories, man. Each of my friends in my group chat, I've known each of them over 10 years. But ... Well, over 10 years, man. And we all have stories we can kind of share from back in the day that just, just remind me where I come from. Yeah.

    13. SB

      And the other thing that happens is when you reach w- the heights you've reached in your profession is, we talked about it then, you have this other, um, this other f- attention, which is-

    14. IA

      Mm-hmm.

    15. SB

      ... from women that might want you for the wrong reasons.

    16. IA

      Oh, yeah.

    17. SB

      My mum always warns me about this.

    18. IA

      Have a baby by me.

    19. SB

      Yeah. (laughs)

    20. IA

      Da, da, da, da, da, da. Yeah.

    21. SB

      My mum's trying to me, t- tell me s- like, you know-

    22. IA

      When are you going to settle down?

    23. SB

      Yeah. (laughs)

    24. IA

      When are you going to find a nice Nigerian and just settle down?

    25. SB

      Yeah, she wants me to be with a Nigerian woman.

    26. IA

      Yeah.

    27. SB

      She just doesn't like ... Uh-

    28. IA

      Oh, I, I don't settle.

    29. SB

      Yeah.

    30. IA

      I don't settle. So for me, mm, that, that's something I guess you just, you just have to take it by a case by case basis. Yeah, case by case basis, 'cause you do find people who just ... Some people play the long game, put it that way. I've had people play the long game with me, even recently. It's just like, yeah, you know, they, uh, th- there's love there and all that kind of stuff, but they play the long game 'cause they see the value. And it's not just what you ... It's, it's what you bring to the table, and they get entitled, you know? And I feel like that's, that's not the way you wanna be when you have someone, you know, that's, that you're romantically in love with or involved with. Is like you don't wanna be competing with them or have them feel entitled to what you have. I'm like, "Yo, you just got here."

Episode duration: 1:28:18

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