CHAPTERS
- 11:00 – 16:30
Origins: Church, Chaos, And A House Full Of Music
Labrinth describes his intensely religious upbringing, the beauty and toxicity of church culture, and the uniquely musical environment of his huge family. He explains how being surrounded by siblings playing jazz, gospel, R&B, and hip‑hop simultaneously forged his eclectic ear and desire to do ‘all of them’ at once.
- •Family deeply embedded in Christian church life; grandfather a reverend, both sides of family in praise and worship circuits.
- •Household was strict and sheltered: TV turned off for kissing scenes; romance framed as sinful.
- •Musical saturation: siblings upstairs singing R&B, others downstairs playing Yellowjackets/Weather Report, others rapping over MPCs.
- •Early realization: he wanted to absorb every sound, later still makes music asking, “Would my family feel this?”
- 16:30 – 36:30
Mother’s Defiance, Father’s Absence, And The Birth Of A People‑Pleaser
He explores the impact of his mother’s rejection by church family, colorism, and her self‑taught education on psychology and willpower. In contrast, his abused, absent father left a void he only fully recognized after his death, shaping Labrinth’s later search for validation and tendency to accommodate others.
- •Mother was shunned by family and church for having children out of wedlock and for being darker‑skinned; she vowed not to repeat that harm.
- •She had to learn taxes, business, and psychology from scratch, gathering nine kids around the table to teach willpower and transactional analysis.
- •Father endured beatings from his stepfather, left home at 15, was largely absent; Labrinth saw him mainly as a ‘sperm donor’ until he died.
- •Father’s death, and having his own kids, made him realise what he’d never heard: “I got you, don’t worry, I’m here,” and how vital inherited memories and mental support are.
- •Early emotional template: to be loved you must behave a certain way — a pattern later echoed in church doctrine and the music industry.
- 36:30 – 45:00
Finding Himself By Being ‘Weird’ In A Boxed‑In World
Labrinth contrasts his curiosity for foreign genres with cultural expectations about what a Black kid from a gospel/grime background should be. He recalls his flamboyantly odd teenage fashion, family ‘Jackson Nine’ performances, and how creativity, not money, became his social currency.
- •He brought home Blondie and 70s/80s indie records to a gospel and Black‑music household; relatives didn’t know how to respond.
- •Never felt like the ‘right’ kind of Black guy in grime raves; liked the scene but didn’t want to make grime.
- •At 16 he was ‘weird as hell’: capes, metal knight finger, Dunlop gear, oblivious to how odd he looked.
- •Family couldn’t afford trend clothes; their status came from dancing, singing, and putting on ticketed school shows as a sibling group.
- •Mother’s key gift was not blocking individuality—she laughed, encouraged, and didn’t stand in the way of their self‑expression.
- 45:00 – 55:30
Crafting A Prodigy: Bands, Instruments, And An ADHD Brain
He recounts forming a school band, obsessively chasing studio time, and learning multiple instruments from his brothers. An eventual ADHD diagnosis helps him make sense of his hyper‑musical mind, scattered focus, and challenges with follow‑through in both life and business.
- •Teen band ‘Dynamics’ with producer Flow; they printed flyers, self‑promoted shows, and argued like they were the Rolling Stones.
- •Older brother Josh taught him drums and bass; brother Jamie taught MPC and production in a smoky hip‑hop environment.
- •Views everything as an instrument: tables, voices; hears music ‘all the time’ and experiences tones as colours and images.
- •Sought ADHD assessment to avoid casually self‑diagnosing; was confirmed and felt immediate recognition reading the symptoms.
- •Key impairments: can’t finish projects, forgets conversations, loses track of collaborations, struggles with networking and maintaining relationships.
- 55:30 – 1:01:30
Art As Soul: Creativity, Fear, And The Lie Of The ‘Good Boy’
Labrinth distinguishes between creativity aimed at pleasing others and art that articulates the soul. He admits he spent years chasing ANR approval and external ‘good boy’ validation, and describes the terrifying but liberating process of learning to say what he truly feels, regardless of audience reaction.
- •Defines true art as “articulating the sound or frequency of your soul,” not just making what people will like.
- •Encourages artists to ask, “What do you hear in you?” rather than copying Burna Boy–type blends.
- •Says the industry is a room of inner children chasing a pat on the back; validation pulls you away from your center.
- •Freedom comes from being willing to be ‘naked’: saying what your soul wants, accepting that criticism will hurt but doing it anyway.
- •He was often not enjoying his career because he wasn’t saying what he wanted; he was governed by accommodating his periphery.
- 1:01:30 – 1:22:00
Syco, Stardom Scripts, And Losing Himself In The Game
He unpacks why he signed to Simon Cowell’s Syco—on his manager’s advice—and how quickly he was pulled into pop‑star theatre: staged relationships, paparazzi set‑ups, and a ‘mogul’ restaurant he never cared about. Success validated a persona he didn’t recognise, deepening his sense of fraudulence and dislocation.
- •Signed to Syco because it was a bigger check and he’d be prioritised as a unique act on their roster—his manager’s logic, not his.
- •Was nudged into fake dating narratives (e.g., “Maybe Cher Lloyd”) and red‑carpet appearances designed solely for cameras.
- •Realised entertainment is separate from craft: people are entertained by almost anything; music theory and modes are irrelevant to that machine.
- •Opened a restaurant he never wanted because it made him ‘look like a mogul’; later saw it as keeping up appearances.
- •Felt like a ‘church boy’ dropped into the shallow end of celebrity culture, increasingly sure that “none of this shit means anything to me.”
- 1:22:00 – 1:29:00
Meltdown: Anger, Panic, And The Night He Almost Killed Someone
A confluence of managerial breakdown, dependency, and self‑loathing culminates in an on‑stage explosion where Labrinth hurls his guitar and nearly hits a camerawoman. The incident exposes how people‑pleasing and suppressed rage had warped him, forcing him to confront the roots of his volatility.
- •Relationship with manager deteriorated as money came in; he’d treated the manager like a father figure and external source of worth.
- •On tour he felt trapped performing for the wrong audience, noticing one hostile fan whose look echoed his own self‑judgment.
- •In a fit of fury he threw his guitar into the air; it narrowly missed a camerawoman — tour manager told him, “You almost killed someone today.”
- •Admits lifelong anger issues dating back to primary school, layered over a people‑pleasing façade.
- •Connects suppressed anger and passive aggression with childhood dynamics (father’s absence, church conditional love) and industry pressure.
- 1:29:00 – 1:39:00
Therapy, His Wife’s Protection, And Rebuilding Boundaries
Labrinth details how his wife recognised the toxicity around him—team members exploiting his rider and gifts, pushing him despite burnout—and became the only one setting boundaries. Initially cast as the villain, she persevered, eventually steering him toward therapy and life coaching that anchored his recovery.
- •Band and team were eating his rider and siphoning brand gifts to their families while his own family got nothing; he kept making excuses for them.
- •Wife insisted the business was being run badly and that he was being mistreated; she was portrayed as the problem by the team.
- •He was too accommodating to fully back her at the time, rationalising everyone’s behaviour; later apologised and credited her for saving his sanity.
- •She connected him to a shrink and life coach, drawing on her background in psychology to support his mental health.
- •Highlights how often partners of public figures are uncredited stabilising forces, and how crucial feminine, emotionally attuned energy is for men.
- 1:39:00 – 1:54:00
Euphoria, LA, And The Freedom Of Being A ‘Nobody’ Again
Moving to LA allowed Labrinth to escape UK genre politics and fame expectations, becoming a small fish again. Working on Euphoria and with artists like Sia and Diplo reconnected him with the raw sound on his hard drive, and he reframes reinvention not as creating a new self but realising his true one.
- •Second‑album pressure (“the difficult second album”) left him stuck; he went to LA for fresh writers and energy.
- •At the Grammys, photographers ignored him while swarming John Legend and Chrissy Teigen; he loved being anonymous and expectation‑free.
- •US environment lacked the UK’s binary pull between ‘hood’ credibility and pop radio; he could explore freely without racial/genre boxes.
- •Says Euphoria was “the first time people actually heard the rawest form of Lab,” thanks to someone else insisting on his hard‑drive ideas.
- •Rejects the term reinvention; prefers ‘realising’—peeling away layers to reveal who he already is, not constructing a new persona.
- 1:54:00
Redefining Success: Burning It Down And Cleaning The Window
In the latter part of the conversation, Labrinth lays out his current philosophy: success is not hits but how clear a channel he is for creativity. He’s willing to walk away from money, touring, and metrics, focusing instead on presence, fatherhood, a future ‘cosmic opera,’ and the ongoing work of noticing when he’s lying to himself.
- •He’d gladly ‘burn it down’ after a trillion‑view album to stay free of expectation, rather than become trapped by his own success.
- •Argues that putting down the need for validation makes you like Forrest Gump — able to try anything without fear of loss.
- •Frames his ultimate goal as being a ‘tap’ or kaleidoscope for the universe: clean the psychological window (fear, ego, desire) so creativity shines through.
- •Sees fulfillment as “desiring nothing, contributing everything,” with the one remaining desire being to stay present enough to actually feel life.
- •Fatherhood and small moments with his kids (moon stones, smelling flowers) re‑teach him the magic of the world beyond numbers and status.
- •New album is a step toward being more ‘naked,’ structured as cosmic love songs about him and his wife as Bonnie & Clyde in space, and he dreams of composing a groundbreaking cosmic opera with choirs used in ways no one’s tried before.
