The Diary of a CEOPret & Itsu Founder: How I Built TWO Billion Dollar Brands At The Same Time!: Julian Metcalfe | E173
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 4:20
Opening: Failure, Dual Brands and Purpose Beyond Money
Metcalfe is introduced as the founder of both Pret A Manger and itsu, with Steven Bartlett highlighting his unusual achievement of building two billion‑dollar brands. Julian immediately frames his relationship with failure and explains that his motivation has never been purely financial, but rooted in making a difference and relationships with people and product.
- •Julian describes himself as failing every day and being comfortable with it.
- •He built Pret and itsu in different eras but from a similar mindset of going against the crowd.
- •He insists business for him is not primarily about money, but about customers, staff and product.
- •The stage is set for a conversation combining personal trauma, creativity, and unconventional business building.
- 4:20 – 14:30
Childhood Hardships, Loneliness and the Roots of Obsession
Julian recounts his mother’s suicide when he was seven, his parents’ divorce, and a chaotic, affection‑poor upbringing. He and Steven explore how early trauma can create both ‘light side’ strengths and ‘dark side’ complexity, without romanticizing suffering as a prerequisite for success.
- •Mother committed suicide on Boxing Day; parents divorced; he and siblings lived with their mother.
- •He didn’t recognize loneliness as a child but felt ‘not whole’ compared to other kids.
- •Acknowledges the event added complexity to his character and relationships, shaping work and life.
- •Pushes back on the narrative that profound tragedy is necessary for high achievement.
- 14:30 – 23:00
Authority, School, and the Decision to Forge His Own Path
Metcalfe explains how being sent to harsh, old‑fashioned boarding schools gave him a deep distrust of authority. This, combined with exposure to powerful but flawed adults via his father, convinced him that impact was possible—but preferably outside rigid institutions.
- •Father was distant, aristocratic; mother was a wild Ukrainian immigrant; parents’ brief remarriage created further instability.
- •Boarding schools were ‘shocking’ environments that eroded trust in authority.
- •He concluded many people in power—teachers, bosses, politicians—fail to nurture those they lead.
- •Early realization: to do meaningful work, he would need to create his own, more humane structure.
- 23:00 – 35:00
Transparency, Truth and Why Most People Hate Monday Mornings
The discussion turns to why so many people dread going to work and what role transparency plays in fixing that. Steven shares his practice of opening up company financials to his team; Julian doubles down on transparency as the core ingredient for trust and long‑term success.
- •Julian defines transparency as sharing information, feelings and truth openly in business.
- •He criticizes the lack of transparency within companies—especially between leaders and employees.
- •Attributes opacity to fear, insecurity, bonus protection and short‑term self‑interest.
- •Believes people should leave workplaces that aren’t transparent, because truth and trust are priceless.
- 35:00 – 48:00
Affection, Self‑Worth and Building an Emotional ‘Family’ at Pret
Steven and Julian compare their stunted models of affection growing up and how that shaped their adult relationships. Julian describes decades of low self‑esteem and how Pret became a surrogate family where he finally experienced and learned to cultivate deep affection, love and trust.
- •Julian isn’t sure how affectionate he is, but recalls long periods of feeling ‘completely unworthy’.
- •Attributes much of that to lack of nurturing parents and a resulting sense of being unlovable.
- •Pret’s early years felt like an ‘extraordinary extended family’ where warmth, care and trust were core.
- •He came to see affection as not optional: ‘what you give, you get back.’
- 48:00 – 56:20
Motivation: Relevance, Admiration and the Joy of Creating
Asked what really drove him while building Pret, Julian rejects money as a primary motivator. Instead he speaks about wanting to be relevant, admired, and to see people around him flourish, alongside a near‑limitless passion for the creative process of food, design and systems.
- •Early examples (including his wealthy but miserable mother) convinced him money doesn’t equal happiness.
- •He wanted to matter, to be seen as ‘onto something’ and to wipe away some of his own pain.
- •Obsessed with creating beautiful food and environments, and with seeing staff grow and flourish.
- •Views resourcefulness and collaboration with ‘geniuses’ as essential to producing great, affordable food.
- 56:20 – 1:04:20
The Magic of Pret: Culture, Naivety and Swimming Upstream
Looking back on Pret’s rise to a multi‑billion exit, Julian emphasizes its unplanned ‘moments of magic’ rather than a rigid strategy. Naivety, courage to go against the industry, and willingness to fail repeatedly underpinned innovations in both product and people management.
- •He claims he had ‘no idea’ what he was doing and that this naïveté was vital.
- •Success came from countless decisions to go against prevailing norms (‘swim upstream’).
- •Pret was built as much on magic in team relationships and culture as on food.
- •He frames Pret as ‘a series of hundreds of failures’ punctuated by brave, illuminating decisions.
- 1:04:20 – 1:14:40
Firing ‘Dicks’ and Promoting Potential: Radical Empowerment in Stores
A story about a toxic manager at Pret’s Fleet Street store illustrates Julian’s people philosophy. On hearing that a talented young worker planned to quit because of bullying, he fired the manager and promoted her instead, transforming both culture and performance.
- •A junior employee cried on the Tube saying she was quitting because her manager was ‘a dick’.
- •Julian recognized the dynamic from his own school experiences and acted decisively.
- •Promoting her unleashed trust, pride and joy in the shop; sales doubled or tripled.
- •He believes many people have huge potential that’s suppressed by untrusting, self‑absorbed leaders.
- 1:14:40 – 1:24:10
Itsu and the Mission for Affordable, Nutritious Food
The conversation shifts to itsu and its evolution into a platform for healthy, affordable eating. Julian details itsu’s multiple reinventions and an increasingly plant‑based, low‑calorie menu aimed at tackling obesity through systems that make nutritious food available around £7.
- •Itsu has been reinvented three times in 20 years and is now ~40% plant‑based.
- •Most of its menu sits under 500 calories; positioned as a healthy everyday option.
- •He sees obesity as a societal crisis but avoids blame; focuses on his responsibility to pioneer solutions.
- •Itsu remains privately owned to protect the long‑term vision from short‑term financial pressures.
- 1:24:10 – 1:31:20
Detail, Freshness and Treating Customers with Respect
Julian explains Pret’s hallmark decisions—fresh food with no sell‑by dates, real trees in itsu, daily donations to the homeless—as obvious extensions of respecting customers and staff. He largely abdicates number‑crunching to others, trusting that if the product and relationships are right, the financials will follow.
- •All Pret food was made fresh daily; nothing carried over, reinforcing quality and trust.
- •Unsold food was driven to the homeless each night, even when the company made no profit.
- •He sees many businesses charging high prices while delivering indifferent service as ‘extraordinary’.
- •States plainly that he’s bored by numbers and far more interested in product and people.
- 1:31:20 – 1:40:00
The ‘Joy of Pret’: Generosity as Strategy, Not Charity
Instead of a conventional loyalty scheme, Pret empowered staff to give free items to customers at their discretion. Julian describes this as a deliberate long‑term bet on kindness and emotional connection, even though consultants derided it and there was no hard proof of ROI.
- •Staff could give away several products a day to anyone they chose—no strict rules.
- •A till button (‘Joy of Pret’) tracked giveaways and exposed managers who were too stingy.
- •He insisted generosity builds long‑term loyalty with both staff and customers.
- •Advisers and consultants labelled it irrational; Julian’s response was essentially, ‘It works. Go away.’
- 1:40:00 – 1:54:00
Long‑Termism vs. Ambitious Managers and the Sale of Pret
Julian criticizes highly ambitious, short‑term managers as often destructive to 30‑year visions. He recounts bringing in a disciplined co‑founder, eventually dealing with private equity and a brief McDonald’s stake, and ultimately being sidelined from Pret’s destiny after the final sale.
- •He dislikes ‘very ambitious’ managers who optimize for three‑year outcomes over 30‑year ones.
- •Brought in co‑founder Sinclair Beecham for discipline, law and numbers; split the company 50/50.
- •Over time, professionalization and private equity shifted focus from beauty and relationships to metrics.
- •McDonald’s briefly owned ~30%; later a full sale in 2018 left Julian with no influence on Pret’s future.
- 1:54:00 – 2:03:00
Parallel Path: Starting Itsu While Running Pret
Julian describes how itsu began after he challenged a Japanese center marketer to create an affordable Japanese restaurant—and then had to fund it when she actually quit. Itsu grew to dozens of locations while he still had ties to Pret, giving him a second canvas more fully aligned with his current vision.
- •Itsu’s origin came from a throwaway challenge to a Japanese colleague who promptly resigned.
- •Julian felt responsible and funded the first Itsu on the King’s Road.
- •Itsu grew to around 76 sites, kept 100% private to avoid repeating the Pret ownership trap.
- •He now sees Itsu as his primary long‑term platform for healthy, innovative food.
- 2:03:00 – 2:12:00
Crisis, Risk and Health & Safety Obsession
Asked about crises, Julian points to the tragic death of Natasha Ednan‑Laperouse from sesame allergy in a Pret baguette, which occurred after his operational involvement. He uses the example to highlight the weight of health and safety in food businesses and his own company’s extreme focus on getting it right.
- •Acknowledges the Natasha’s Law case as a deeply painful chapter for Pret and the family.
- •Notes Pret had complied with laws but that compliance is not the same as moral sufficiency.
- •At itsu, health and safety is treated as a top cultural priority; all sites have five‑star ratings.
- •The head of safety is celebrated internally, an unusual status for that role.
- 2:12:00 – 2:24:00
Discovering a Secret Daughter and Re‑Weaving Family
Julian tells the story of discovering, in his mid‑40s, that he had a 19‑year‑old daughter he’d never met. He describes his immediate sense of responsibility and his ongoing effort to repair injustice and integrate her fully into his family and business life.
- •An ex‑partner contacted him and revealed he had a daughter; he had previously had no idea.
- •Drove to Bristol University to meet her; says you ‘just know’ when a child is yours.
- •Felt a deep obligation to help rebuild what she’d lost and continues to prioritize that.
- •She now works with him, sits on the itsu board, and is close with his other children.
- 2:24:00 – 2:35:00
Fear, Happiness and the Cost of Obsessive Work
The discussion turns introspective as Julian considers his fears, concept of happiness, and acknowledged inadequacies. He admits his hypochondria and that his relentless dedication to work necessarily limits the time and emotional energy he can give his loved ones, even as they appear to thrive.
- •He jokes about being a hypochondriac but says he doesn’t truly fear much besides health going wrong.
- •Rejects the idea of optimizing for happiness when he already has food, warmth and love; focuses on not being unhappy.
- •Openly admits his main inadequacy: not spending enough time nurturing and supporting those he loves most.
- •Accepts the trade‑off as the cost of creating at the level he does, while hoping family sees the shared purpose.
- 2:35:00
Closing Reflections: Truth, Risk and Advice for Steven
In the final exchange, Julian praises Steven’s commitment to truth and humanity in business, and reiterates his belief that people underestimate how much more they can say and do if they embrace transparency and risk. The episode ends with product tastings and light sponsor mentions.
- •He urges Steven to continue prioritizing truth, empathy and transparency; calls them central to his success.
- •Reiterates that money is ‘all crap’ relative to relationships and long‑term impact.
- •Encourages listeners to dare more: ‘Seek transparency, take a risk, say it, do it.’
- •Finishes with a lighthearted Huel tasting and brief discussion of control, completeness and nutrition.
