Tony Bellew: Nothing Made Me Happy Until I Found This | E156

Tony Bellew 0:00 Every night, I'd cry meself to sleep. Like, nothing made me happy. Nothing. (camera clicking)

Steven Bartlett 0:08 (crowd cheering) Tony Bellew, what a fighter.

Tony Bellew 0:11 I believe I was put on this earth to fight. It was me father who taught me how to punch. And at 12, 13 years old, that's a powerful tool to show a kid.

Steven Bartlett 0:20 Finding out that your brother was gay being a pivotal moment-

Tony Bellew 0:24 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 0:24 Why?

Tony Bellew 0:25 In the mid-90s, it wasn't cool to be gay and Black. That's when, I'd say, the fighting took shape. I used to brutalize me body, cannibalize me own body. There's fight nights that I've had that I can't remember anything.

Steven Bartlett 0:37 That shield you put up to help you to survive, I'm guessing it's not serving you.

Tony Bellew 0:42 No.

Steven Bartlett 0:43 Bellew shots on his feet... Score! Bellew two, Hayne nil. One of the things I will never forget is the raw emotion that came out of you after you won that fight.

Tony Bellew 0:52 You know, people look at you and think you're the success story. They look at the money you've got, they look at the, the scenario and the setup you've got, but ultimately, are you happy?

Steven Bartlett 1:01 Are you happy? So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (lively music)

Steven Bartlett 1:22 Tony, from reading your book and a lot of the things that you've said over the years, one of the things that really stood out to me, 'cause I think it's been front of mind, 'cause a few guests have said this to me over the last couple of weeks, is, "I was a product of my environment." And your early environment was Wavertree in Liverpool.

Tony Bellew 1:38 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:39 Take me back to that environment and tell me what it was about that environment that shaped who you went on to be and who you are today.

Tony Bellew 1:49 (sighs) I am a product of me environment and, and I, I say that, and, and the way I get to that is because the... it's no coincidence I'm a fighter. I was just... I believe I was put on this earth to fight. It's something that I enjoy. It's something that I like. It's something that I'm not afraid of. Like, fighting doesn't... it never scared me, it never bothered me, and I think that's a bit weird, to be honest, but it, it's just me. I can't change who I am, and, uh, the environment I was raised in definitely helped produce that. You know, from being a kid. At the age of 10, me, me old man leaves home. Uh, he's gone, and then at that age, me little brother at that age is about six or seven. Me two elder brothers, one had moved out, and the other one was on the verge of finishing school. So the elder one who finishes school then goes on to further education, he goes to university, so we keep moving on over a few years. And then once I hit 13, 14, it's quite apparent me younger brother's gay. Uh, and then that's when, I'd say, the fighting takes shape, and things take shape, so yeah.

Steven Bartlett 2:57 You said your dad left home when you were 10?

Tony Bellew 2:58 Yep.

Steven Bartlett 2:59 How come?

Tony Bellew 3:01 Uh, he couldn't keep his dick in his pants, the top and bottom of it, uh, and got caught, basically. A fantastic father, but, you know, uh, was carrying on, broke me mum's heart, and was gone, yeah? So, a product of, uh, most men, to be honest. But, uh, mm, that was the reason me dad was gone. So he was carrying on, he had an affair with some scumbag of a woman, uh, who knew he was married with four kids, and yeah, he just... he let his, uh, the thing in between... in his pants rule his head. Uh, and a thing that he regrets every single day for the rest of his life, which he constantly tells me he does, but these are the mistakes men make.

Steven Bartlett 3:41 What impact did that have on your mother at the time?

Tony Bellew 3:43 Oh, it was heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking. As a kid growing up, it's not nice, mate, watching your mother cry herself to sleep at night. Uh, and the, the other things that go on in life, i- is heartbreaking. Very, very tough. And you'd only understand how tough it is when you look back as an older... as a, as a grown-ass man. You realize how tough and hard it really is, so heartbreaking, yeah.

Steven Bartlett 4:07 Getting to see the impact of, like, infidelity in your own home, has it impacted what you're like as a man with your-

Tony Bellew 4:13 Oof, that's deep. I've never been asked a question like this, but, uh, it's all good. Yes, it does add a life where I try me best to learn from others' mistakes and not just me own. So I would never ever in a million years have an affair. Ain't happening. Just not going on. Not a chance. Uh, uh, things sit with me, and I say I try me best to learn from other peoples' mistakes. But yeah, growing up in that period of time and that part of me life was very, very difficult, and you just... you have to learn to adapt. So then at that stage, your hou- your home's broken, and my friends then become me family. Me, me closest friends that, uh, five or six of us that all go to school together, they become me best friends, and they become me, me brothers from thereon in. And you learn to cope with life and do things. Just 'cause me dad done what he done, he didn't detract anything from him as a father. He was a brilliant father. He's been me greatest supporter since the day I was born. He, uh, I'm as shining light, he believes in me like no one else could ever believe in me, like, he adores me. I know he does. A- and I adored him, I would do anything for me father, but yeah, them, them years when he's gone, very, very difficult, especially when he goes to prison as well, so that's hard as well.

Steven Bartlett 5:29 You mentioned, um, your finding out that your brother was gay being a pivotal moment.

Tony Bellew 5:35 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 5:35 Why?

Tony Bellew 5:36 We always had the... had a, had a conscious thought that he was, because me brother's gay. He's, uh, he's not... he's not like... y- it's hideaway... Y- you hear my brother before you see him (laughs) , you know? He's out there, he really is. So we knew it quite early on, but as I say, as time goes on and you see the environment that he's raised up in, he's constantly around women, uh, uh, and, and yeah, he just adapts, and we see where it's going. But I...As a family, we understand and know, we get him, I love him, he's me little brother. But then, for the outside world, it doesn't go down well. Uh, in the, uh, in the mid-90s, it wasn't cool to be gay and Black. Like, my brothers darker than me, so he's the same shade as you, uh, our Liam, and that just didn't go down well. Yeah. Picked on in school regularly. In the junior school, eh, it's not too bad, it's okay because it's kind of just looked at as being you're loud and you're out there. But when you start getting towards senior school level, it's like, "Oh, okay. He's gay." And then that comes with problems and headaches. And when you're raised in Wavertree, (exhales) being a kid growing up, I think I seen one gay man, one gay Black man, his name was Skippy. No one would mess with him because he was, like, 6-foot-3, and his name was Skippy. And he would fuck around and no one would... Someone would just leave him alone because anyone who did try to mess with him, he was gonna smack them. Uh, but my little brother wasn't that way inclined at that age. He's not smacking no one, he'd just take a slap or whatever. So, I couldn't allow that to happen, that anyone who would step to him, I would step to them. And it would always be me winning, every single time.

Steven Bartlett 7:06 So you found yourself defending him a lot like, uh, from bullies and stuff?

Tony Bellew 7:09 Oh, yeah, uh, lots of times. Lots of times. I mean, the amount of times I've had to go up to the school. (exhales) I remember being a kid, taking me mum's car, she was away, she was on holiday, and I got a phone call saying, "Your brother's being threatened to be beat up from s- after school," or some kid threatened him. So at this time I think I was 16. Took me mum's car, which I shouldn't have done. Uh, went and got me little brother, and about, I think I smacked someone at the school. Or whoever was waiting for them, I gave them a good beating, drive them back home after being young, crashed me mum's car. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 7:42 Really?

Tony Bellew 7:42 Yeah. (laughs) And then, funny how no one's ever heard that story. Yeah, crashed then me mum's car into a taxi, and they, and then set off running for a couple of weeks. So yeah.

Steven Bartlett 7:51 For a couple of weeks?

Tony Bellew 7:52 Yeah, I was gone for a couple of weeks back in the day. So yeah, you could just go missing in them days. And, uh, yeah, me mum's car was classed as being stolen and stuff like that. So yeah, lots of crazy things I've done and, and, and experienced in my life. But yeah, this is the first time I've actually spoke about that side. So, you're the first. Well done, you've dragged something up new.

Steven Bartlett 8:12 Yeah. (laughs)

Tony Bellew 8:12 Something new.

Steven Bartlett 8:12 Oh, yeah. I'm just so genuinely curious because much of my, the reasoning behind my questioning is to really try and understand how someone came to be who they are today.

Tony Bellew 8:20 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 8:20 And all of these, like, threads through your life of, like, the absence of your father, which creates this void where you almost become the man of the house, and then you've got this thing you need to defend in your brother. And, and even the race thing I find really interesting-

Tony Bellew 8:30 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 8:30 ...'cause your mother is the same skin tone as me roughly, isn't she?

Tony Bellew 8:33 Yeah, maybe a bit darker.

Steven Bartlett 8:35 Yeah?

Tony Bellew 8:35 Similar to you, yes.

Steven Bartlett 8:36 But you, you're light- you're significantly lighter than me.

Tony Bellew 8:39 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 8:40 So having a mother who is con- I, I'm, I'm guessing con- considers herself to be a Black woman.

Tony Bellew 8:45 She's Black.

Steven Bartlett 8:45 Yeah?

Tony Bellew 8:46 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 8:46 And growing up in that environment where there wasn't a huge, a, a huge amount of Black people-

Tony Bellew 8:52 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 8:52 ... did you find yours- I was w- wondering this when I was reading about your story, did you find yourself almost, like, a little bit, like, identifying with that community while also not being considered part of it by... Do you know what I mean?

Tony Bellew 9:05 Yeah, of course. So you're not Black enough for the brothers and you're not white enough-

Steven Bartlett 9:08 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 9:08 ... for the white people. So yeah, (laughs) I've got that-

Steven Bartlett 9:10 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 9:10 ... since I was a kid. But doesn't bother me in the slightest. It, it did growing up because you're trying to think, "Who do I relate to? What do I relate to?" I relate to just being a decent person, just trying to do the right thing. I've done enough bad things in me life to, to know that I'm a good person.

Steven Bartlett 9:26 Mm-hmm.

Tony Bellew 9:26 If that makes sense. So yeah, I have to... Race, color, creed, it doesn't really bother me. You're either good or you're bad.

Steven Bartlett 9:34 Hmm.

Tony Bellew 9:34 But, uh, yeah, it's not hard. F- I was... I've, I've always wondered what it must've been like for me mother growing up, 'cause that must've been very difficult, especially for... You know, and I, I know it was difficult for me mother and father to be together when they first got together, 'cause my father's coming into a period at the time where the Tulsa riots are happening. And for a white man with, you know, a, a Black woman and, and Black kids and stuff, it, you know, he's had his fights regarding that as well. But for me mother, it must've been horrific at times, must've really been hard. So... But she's strong. She's a strong woman, uh, and she, she can get through anything.

Steven Bartlett 10:12 I saw that a lot. My mum, obviously, my, my dad's white, my mum's from Nigeria, so-

Tony Bellew 10:15 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 10:15 ... my mum, we moved to Cornwall, right, where everyone's white (laughs) -

Tony Bellew 10:19 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 10:19 ... when I'm, like, one or two years old. And my mum, she just constantly get, like, struggled with it. Her car being burnt by people-

Tony Bellew 10:26 Oh, my God.

Steven Bartlett 10:26 ... by people locally, shop's been broken into and everything. And y- she, she really built a, a huge amount of, I don't know, anger and resentment towards people, which I'm, I'm really happy I didn't carry with me. But, you know, at that age, even I heard racism.

Tony Bellew 10:39 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 10:40 A lot of racism on the playground and stuff like that. And being someone who wouldn't necessarily be a target of that racism-

Tony Bellew 10:46 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 10:47 ... but would be, could identify with the community because your, your mother's Black-

Tony Bellew 10:51 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 10:51 ... was that ever, like, a, a thing where you would hear... Pe- people would have the guts to be racist around you, but they, but, because they wouldn't think you'd be offended by it, but-

Tony Bellew 11:00 Did your mum give you advice on how to get through that?

Steven Bartlett 11:03 Never.

Tony Bellew 11:03 Or did you just work it out? No?

Steven Bartlett 11:05 Never. I mean, I got, I got in a few... Uh, probably the, the only significant fights I ever got in was someone calling me the N-word in school.

Tony Bellew 11:11 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:11 And I was the only Black kid in school.

Tony Bellew 11:14 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 11:14 Like, there was... In, obviously, Cornwall, like-

Tony Bellew 11:15 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:16 ... 1992. Um, that was, tho- those were the only fights I ever got into, and I didn't really know what it meant. I didn't even know I was Black-

Tony Bellew 11:22 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 11:22 ... until someone called me the N-word. Do you know what I mean? It was-

Tony Bellew 11:24 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 11:25 So... But did you get some advice on that? Or-

Tony Bellew 11:27 No, I wasn't given advice. I just found meself... I used to build a bit of a protective wall around meself, so I would let people know I was half Black within literally the first couple of minutes of meeting them. So that way, it would shield them from saying any... 'Cause if someone says a racist comment and run to me, I'm gonna smack you or I'm gonna do something. So I'm gonna butt you, smack you, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a piece of me mind, I'm gonna do something. So I, I'd f- I'd f- I'd find meself, like, meeting people and I'd be like, "Yes, I'm mixed race. So yeah, me mum's Black, me dad's white." And, and, and some of them used to look at me as if to say, "Why is she telling us that?" And I think because I just don't wanna hear the comments that I'm used to hearing of this word, that word. I'd heard them all me life, and people would make smart-ass jokes and-... dis-, you know, degrade Black people, or whether it would be... I've heard every single word and phrase you can possibly imagine. And, and I would, and I would only hear them because they were undertone racism. It would be said because they thought I was white.

Steven Bartlett 12:21 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 12:22 And, and that was the most frustrating part. So, then I felt meself letting people know, "Look, I'm not white, I'm not Black, and I'm not white, but I- I'm, I'm just me." But yeah, I- I'd let people know what I was pretty much straightaway. Because if I hear that undertone or I hear that slight comment or dig, I'm gonna respond, unless it's a woman. And a couple of times I've, I've had to let that go and it's been women who've, who've made undertone comments. Only once, I think, I took it up with a woman because I was working in the sports center for Liverpool City Council, and a woman, yeah, said the M word. And I was furious, and I just had to give her a piece of me mind. And I called her every slut and sweat you can go on. And then, yeah, and I actually lost me job for that. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 13:05 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 13:05 Yeah. It was cause, yeah, saying I went too far. Well, she just denied she said it, but I was like, you know I'm such a quiet, not quiet, but I'm such a... I treat people, everyone with respect. Everyone I meet, it doesn't matter whether... You can be anything in life, I'm no better than anyone.

Steven Bartlett 13:19 Mm-hmm.

Tony Bellew 13:19 Whether it's a fucking bin man on the street, whether it's a fucking... I was a lifeguard, whether it's a, it- it's someone who's begging on the street, I am no better than them. But believe you me, they're no better than me.

Steven Bartlett 13:28 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 13:28 Shouldn't disrespect anyone. So yeah, I gave her a piece of me mind and lost me job, and that was the end of that.

Steven Bartlett 13:34 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 13:34 You learn to deal with moments like that. And as I say, in the environment I'm raised in, I've kind- I've found a way of shielding meself, protecting meself. And then also, uh, me actions now speak louder than me words because of what I've, what I've done with me career.

Steven Bartlett 13:49 When I sat here with Eddie Hearn, um, it became really tran- uh, apparent that many of the successful people I meet start with this kind of innate desire to please a parent. Eddie's one of them, right?

Tony Bellew 14:01 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 14:01 He kind of lived in Barry Hearn's shadow.

Tony Bellew 14:04 You've spoke of a lot of people. Wow. Um, Ant, Eddie-

Steven Bartlett 14:07 Yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Tony Bellew 14:08 ... you just spoke to them all.

Steven Bartlett 14:08 But he was, he was some-... And when I was reading your story, I- I saw the same thing. You had this real strong-

Tony Bellew 14:12 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 14:12 ... desire to impress your father. And I-

Tony Bellew 14:15 Without doubt.

Steven Bartlett 14:15 ... I'm wondering why. Why?

Tony Bellew 14:17 Because he's me dad. And I adore me dad, I love him. Uh... (sighs)

Steven Bartlett 14:22 Not everyone has that though.

Tony Bellew 14:24 Yeah, because not everyone has a father, and I'm very fortunate that I do. Yeah, he might not have been living at home from the age of ten, but he's still me father and he still loves me and adores me. I know he does. Me dad would do anything for his kids. He would literally die for all of us children. And, and that was passed over to me. I think that's why I adore me kids so much. But I always wanted to impress him.

Steven Bartlett 14:47 Why?

Tony Bellew 14:49 (sighs) He's me dad, so yeah. He- he's me dad, I wanted to imp- I want... A part of me wants to impress him, and a part of me wants to do more than he's done, do better. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna impress him, but I also wanna go further than where he's gone. A- and yeah, I was lucky enough and fortunate enough to be able to do it. Especially when it come... I mean, me dad was a hard man. He, my dad could fight, you know, really, really fight. But he tried the boxing, didn't stick at it, didn't go right. And it didn't go right because, not cause he's not hard enough or tough enough, just 'cause he's mentally... he can't stick with it. He can't take someone jabbing the face off him because, you know, he goes nuts. He attacks them with a steel in the second fight. Uh, he's got a wicked temper. You would never know that as, as us as his children, but I've seen it literally 'cause I've worked on nightclub doors with him. I've strapped up a bulletproof vest at the age of 19 with him, and we've been working side by side working on nightclubs.

Steven Bartlett 15:48 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 15:48 So as a young kid, I just wanted to be like him. So when I realized what me dad was, he was a... He owned a nightclub security company, and uh, he ran them doors brilliantly. You know, the nightlife in our city was fantastic. We had the best club in the city. People still talk about it today, it was called Society. And uh, the policy was three to one with women to men. Though you can possibly imagine the trouble that would cause and what we would get from the outside in. Uh, and we created an environment and a place that was unbelievable. And I've watched me dad go through so many problems and fights and things like that. Whether he's been threatened to be shot, his house blown up, ran over, shot, stabbed, every possible thing you can imagine. Jailed twice. So yeah, I just wanted to impress him, so the first step was working on the door with him. Well, no, the first step was going into the boxing gym. That was the first step. Once I found out he- that he couldn't progress any further with boxing, I thought, "Okay, I'll show you I can. I'll have a go." And it started off as just a bit of a macho thing, "I'll show you this, I'll show you that." Because ultimately, I didn't really want to box, I wanted to play football. I adored having football club and I wanted to be a professional footballer, but that's just a pipe dream. And but at the ages of 12 to 16, you think you can do it. And, and I was a big believer in me own beliefs. So I thought, "If I work hard enough, I can do it." I've always synchronized working hard with getting to the end goal. I'll get there no matter how hard it is or how big the task looks. If I work hard enough, I'll get there. But that just wasn't the case with football, unlucky for me. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 17:22 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 17:22 Uh, but with boxing, I- I always watched it with me dad from afar. I wasn't its biggest fan, but I studied and watched because I was intrigued by it. And then upon finding out me dad couldn't stick at it and do it, I thought, "Okay, I- I'll have a go at this." And I was just insanely good at punching people. And that was from an early age I knew, just straight away. He took me on pads. I kickboxed at first, got to a good level at that, good standard, and then knocked a couple of opponents out with punches in the face when I was only a kid at this age. That shouldn't happen. Dropped one and flattened the other one. Uh, got disqualified off both contests because it was supposed to be semi-contact. You're supposed to tap each other for the points and then point for you, you go away, let's fight again. Point for you and you get to like 11 points and you've won. I think it was 11 points. And uh-... if I'm not going to be able to hold a punch, it was like, "Ooh, you can't do this." And at this stage, it was me father who taught me how to punch. He showed me the correct way of how to turn your fist over, how to exchange your body weight from the end of your foot to the end of your fist. And at 12, 13 years old, that's a powerful tool to show a kid. But I seen how proud he was the minute I knocked them kids out in kickboxing. Even though I got disqualified and I lost, I knocked these kids out with punches and he was extremely proud. And I was like, "Oh, this is the way forward." And, and even though I, I didn't know that then, mentally and subconsciously I've took that on board. Seen how much he's praised me, seen how much he, he's, he's give me for doing it. And I, I've thought, "That's the way." So I keep flittering and messing round with that thought, and then ultimately I end up in a boxing gym. Basically trying to impress me dad, I'm not gonna lie. That's the, that was the first reasons for going into a boxing gym, an amateur boxing gym and doing it.

Steven Bartlett 19:05 And your dad had gone to jail twice you said? The first-

Tony Bellew 19:07 Yep. First time before I was born.

Steven Bartlett 19:09 First time before you were born?

Tony Bellew 19:10 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 19:10 And then the second time when you were roughly round ...

Tony Bellew 19:16 Think I was 14, 15. 14, 14, 15, yeah, somewhere there or thereabouts. I'd have to go back in the years, but around roughly that age.

Steven Bartlett 19:25 What's that like when you find out that your father, someone you, you admire so much-

Tony Bellew 19:29 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 19:29 ... is going to this place called jail where he's gonna be locked?

Tony Bellew 19:33 That's tough. Uh, when I'd, when I'd found out what he'd done, I agreed with everything he'd done. So at this age now, it's right. So someone stole his money. So me dad at this stage, me dad owns a pub. He, he's, he's, like I say, he's running a security firm, he's got a pub on the side, he's got his other job with the probation. He's, he's got so many things going on. And this pub, uh, I think the guy stole £10,000 out the safe. The manager he was employing to manage took £10,000 out the safe and went running with his money. So, uh, me father picked him up, took him, kidnapped him, whatever he done, and, uh, and demand... Phoned his home and demanded his money back. Uh, and, uh, that, that was told a no, so, uh, he makes another phone call, uh, leaves a voicemail. Unbelievable. Leaves a voicemail of what will happen if he doesn't get his £10,000, and that voicemail sends him to prison. (laughs) So yeah. If someone stole £10,000 from me, I'm not leaving a voicemail, like, but, you know, I mean, you know, no one's taking me kids' money. So... And I know... I get these, these dingos from him. So, you know, no one can steal from you and take your child's money, 'cause I don't look at my money as being my money any more. I look at it, the kids'. And, and I'm pretty sure that's how he looked at his. So yeah, he done what he done and then he goes off and, uh, I go and visit him and then that's when I think another pivotal moment in me life, going to visit me dad in the big house is, is, uh, is very, very tough. But sticks with me once again. It's a part of me life where I think to meself, "Wow, I can never come here." He tells me the most import... one of the most important phrases he ever told me in life. I'm sitting with him and I'm on a visiting order. His, his partner who takes me up to the visit, uh, takes me there and he says to me... See, a lot of people glorify jail. You see lads in there and they're like, "I've done jail, I've done this, I've done that." Me father was the only person I seen say what he said to me, and I've never seen it said since. I've got friends who were in jail, grown up with lads from jail and stuff like that, so... And he says to me, "Son, don't ever come here." And I said, "I'm not gonna." He said, "Because you see this place? It's the house of failure. Everyone in here has failed. There's no winners in here, there's no great people in here. If you're in here, you've failed." And it sat with me forever. Just, it, it's always sat with me. So there's various things that I've done that I'm not proud of, there's various things that if I would have been caught for it, I would have been in jail, but I didn't. Uh, and at the same time I'm very grateful for the words that he said to me because they stuck with me forever. I actually, I've got friends doing life. I've, I've seen friends, you know, being in jail for long periods of time. I visited a friend most recently, and, uh, and we speak to him and, and I told him the phrase me dad said. And this, this friend of mine has done a, has done a long time in jail. And he said to me, "Your dad was spot on." And he's sitting there, he's done nearly 16 years. He's getting out soon. And that's what he said to me, yeah. He said, "Your dad was spot on." He couldn't be, couldn't be any more truthful and it couldn't be phrased any better. If you're in jail, you've failed. So no one should glorify jail, no one should put a badge of honor on it. There's nothing glorious about sitting in a prison cell. Nothing at all. So... But I'm not stupid enough to think that that couldn't have been me. Could have been me. With the cards I'm dealt, it could have very, very easily been me. I'm just very fortunate that it didn't happen to me.

Steven Bartlett 23:06 When your amateur boxing career starts, are you still being tempted by those kind of temptations? You talk a little bit about that in here, the-

Tony Bellew 23:15 Yeah, street life.

Steven Bartlett 23:16 Street life?

Tony Bellew 23:17 Yeah. Definitely. Because there's no other way to earn. I've got no qualifications, I've been expelled from school.

Steven Bartlett 23:22 For fighting, right?

Tony Bellew 23:23 Yep. For fighting, for smashing someone's face in. But while he was stabbing me in the head with a compass. (laughs) So yeah, it's, uh... But these are the, this is the life that, you know, you just, uh, you know, it's looked at as normal. I know when you look back now it's frightening to think that, like, if someone stabbed my son in the head with a compass, wow, it, it's truly frightening. But it, it, it didn't deter me or bother me at all. Crazy. Like I walked up to him, watched him hold the compass. And I knew I only had fists. But it didn't, it didn't intimidate me, it didn't scare me, and yeah.

Steven Bartlett 23:55 When you get expelled from school at 15, what, what do you think you're gonna become in your life? Is it... Were you still thinking you might... Well, at 15 you, I guess-

Tony Bellew 24:01 What's the hope?

Steven Bartlett 24:01 Yeah, when... If someone said, "What are you going to be when you grow up?" what would your response have been? At 15 after getting kicked out.

Tony Bellew 24:07 Locked up.

Steven Bartlett 24:08 You thought that's what, how it was gonna play out for you?

Tony Bellew 24:10 Yeah, because I know I wanted nice things. At that... at the age of 15, 16, I always know I wanted nicer things.And I just, at that stage, especially being expelled from school, I had no idea that I was gonna get them.

Steven Bartlett 24:22 Why did you want nice things? Why was that so important?

Tony Bellew 24:24 'Cause, 'cause-

Steven Bartlett 24:24 'Cause I've read throughout your story about these nice things.

Tony Bellew 24:26 You just want nice things. You just want ... So, the nice things that I looked at was, like, as a kid the only ... I can't believe how weird. So I got a gold chain. I bought this chain. Now, the only reason I have this is because I wanted that as a child and I've never grown up. It's the one thing I wanted. I thought, "Right, if I can get that, I've cracked it." I don't wear a chain out. I mean, I'll be top and show this and all that. It's just, that's not me now.

Steven Bartlett 24:48 Mm-hmm.

Tony Bellew 24:48 But as a kid growing up, I thought that was gonna be me, the chain out and the crossing it down. You know, you grow up in similar environments and that's what you want. But I get it, because in me mind I think, "I got the things I wanted." I've ... But I've worked hard and I've done it the right way. I did have it in me where I was thinking, "I'll do it the wrong way as well." And, and that, that, that's once again where they touch upon being a product of your environment, because everybody else is doing it. Anybody else who had nice things where I'm from, everyone was selling drugs. There's no other way to get nice things. No one where I'm from. I, I didn't ever see a doctor where I'm from. I didn't see a solicitor where I live. I mean, the first time I found out what a solicitor was, it was because a lorry crashed into our bus on our way to school and me mother took me to meet him.

Steven Bartlett 25:30 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 25:30 That's the only reason, that's how and the only way I found out what a solicitor was.

Steven Bartlett 25:32 Isn't that so crazy? It tells you so much about what's wrong with-

Tony Bellew 25:35 Yes, society.

Steven Bartlett 25:36 ... society, right?

Tony Bellew 25:37 Why, why are-

Steven Bartlett 25:37 I went ... Have you heard of Litherland High School?

Tony Bellew 25:40 Lither-

Steven Bartlett 25:40 Litherland School in Liverpool?

Tony Bellew 25:42 I know where it is, but I didn't live anywhere near. I went to a place called Childwall Comp.

Steven Bartlett 25:46 I went undercover in Litherland as a teacher-

Tony Bellew 25:48 Did you really?

Steven Bartlett 25:48 ... for a TV show.

Tony Bellew 25:49 So Litherland School, that's a predominantly white area.

Steven Bartlett 25:53 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 25:53 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 25:53 It's a r- it was-

Tony Bellew 25:54 It's the north end.

Steven Bartlett 25:55 Is it a rough area? 'Cause it felt-

Tony Bellew 25:57 It's not rough.

Steven Bartlett 25:57 Is it north

Narrator 25:57 Mm-hmm.

Tony Bellew 25:57 Litherland's actually nice.

Steven Bartlett 25:59 Really?

Tony Bellew 25:59 It's a nice part of Liverpool. You would say Litherland's really nice.

Steven Bartlett 26:02 Really?

Tony Bellew 26:02 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 26:03 They, they're really, really str- They, they were, like, the lowest ranked on Ofsted or whatever. But I remember a kid there in the, in the school, Steve. I went to his house. But bearing in mind he thinks I'm a teacher.

Tony Bellew 26:11 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 26:11 And he goes, he goes, he goes, "I think I want to be a millionaire when I grow up, but there's just no millionaires around here. I've never met any." And, um, he goes, he goes, "It's hard to be something that you can't see." And I always remember him saying that. Again, that speaks to much of the problem in society, where those kids don't have role models to-

Tony Bellew 26:29 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 26:29 So they can only aspire to ... And we ... It's a big part of the show we did. The ... What do they call it? The, the networks of people getting young kids from schools to dr- deal drugs.

Tony Bellew 26:38 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 26:38 I can't remember the bloody name of it, but ... So what ends up happening is these adults from out- outer town message these kids from Liverpool on Instagram-

Tony Bellew 26:45 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 26:45 ... and say, "Listen, you can make some, like, 50 quid here if you just move these drugs for me."

Tony Bellew 26:49 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 26:49 And then they end up going through that path, which ...

Tony Bellew 26:52 The cycle of deprivation.

Steven Bartlett 26:54 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 26:54 And that's how it starts. But you, you also have to understand that in them areas, like I've just touched on, no one was coming from my area and was gonna be ... Like, it's only since I've grown up and I've realized ... So three of us got expelled from school. There was me, Tinker, and Walker. Three of us were permanently expelled. Uh, now them three people, the, me, Tinker, and Walker. Tinker is one of the lead professors in Leeds University, he was expelled the same as me. Walks is one of the best journalists in the whole of the country for sports. This boy knows everything about football, boxing. The only reason he knows everything about boxing is because the dope didn't like the fact that I knew more about boxing than him.

Steven Bartlett 27:34 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 27:34 So he started studying boxing, which is insane. Uh, and then there's me. And we're, we're ... I say we're best friends.

Steven Bartlett 27:40 Right.

Tony Bellew 27:40 We grew up then. There was Neil, there was Dancy. He was a footballer. He was set out from the start. He was amazing. He was good. He was always gonna be a footballer. He was just unbelievably gifted. So between the four of us there, growing up within two miles of each other, no one from them areas I'd ever seen before or heard of before me had ever become a professor, an amazing journalist, a professional footballer, and then a professional fighter world champion. And we were four lads who all went to school together, the closest of friends. And that, that, there, that's just four out of about the eight of us. Uh, the others have good jobs and stuff like that, and they've cracked on without ... Just finding they figured out their way in life. But yeah, that, that wasn't available to us as kids, because as I say, if I could tell you what that professor was doing now, I was 15, you wouldn't believe me. If I could tell you what the 16-year-old was doing and what was going on as a gent, you wouldn't believe it. It's only the football louse was there that could say he was the, he was the, the goal we all aspired to be as kids, because he was so driven. Neil was just ... He'd work so hard when every spare minute he got, he was kicking a ball against the wall. Uh, he was training, he was working, he was playing for Liverpool. He was just unbelievably gifted a- and, but worked so hard with the talent that he had, whereas others didn't. And I say for me growing up, it was like everyone who had nice things were selling drugs. A- and that's all you could really see. Because if I, if I'd have seen a footballer from where I'm from, if I'd have seen a professional world champion boxer, or I'd have seen a really educated video man living where I was, then I, I might have thought, "I can do that." But you don't, you don't, just don't see it. So I go to schools to these ... Sometimes now, and I try and talk to these kids and explain to them. I don't feel comfortable going to places, so I got invited to Oxford and Cambridge, and I didn't go. I said no. And I just said, "I don't feel ... What am I gonna say to people who've got brains the pat- the size of theirs?" And they were like, "The, the, the understand it's not about the br- it's what you've tapped into up here yourself to make work for you." I said, "Yeah, but I can't ... I, I, I'm not comfortable going, so I'm not going." But I can walk into any school where I'm from and have a chat to them kids, 'cause I am them kids.

Steven Bartlett 29:53 Mm-hmm.

Tony Bellew 29:53 I've been where they've been. I can relate to them. And I just need to get across to them. So I do that now with the program that I do, with the Weapons Down Gloves Up. A certain amount of it's in the book, but ultimately it's just, uh, it's hard to get across to the kids in the areas that I'm from. It really is. 'Cause th- there is no way out. And I understand there's no way out, 'cause I wa- I was there. I was where you once was, with no way out, with no hope, no job. Just expelled from school and you just think, "What am I gonna do?" So yeah, it's tough, difficult.

Steven Bartlett 30:24 We talked a little bit about your father there. The other, um, man in your life that you referred to as being a father figure is in chapter two, which is Jimmy.

Tony Bellew 30:31 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 30:31 Who was-

Tony Bellew 30:31 What a guy.

Steven Bartlett 30:32 Who was your, I believe, your amateur coach?

Tony Bellew 30:34 Yes. He was.

Steven Bartlett 30:36 You know, it's so blatantly obvious from reading chapter two that he had a profound influence on you.

Tony Bellew 30:42 Definitely in the short space and time I was around him and with him, I just... I got him. And the very first time I met him, I thought, "Uh, it's never gonna work." So the very first time I met him, he, he basically just shrugged me off and thought, "I'm not gonna..." H- he obviously seen a talent. So I walked in... Before I actually had an amateur bout, I walked in the Rotunda A.B.C. and I started punching a bag. This had been the second gym I tried out. So I went in this gym and, uh, punched a bag and he comes over. He says, "Wha- have you ever boxed before?" I said, "No, I've never boxed." He said, "Don't tell lies." He said, "How many bouts have you had?" I said, "I've never had a bout in me life." He said, "Kids who've never had a bout don't hit a bag like you. How many bouts have you had?" I said, "I've had no bouts," I said, "but when can I have a bout?" To that smart-ass comment from me, he replied, "You don't tell me, boy, when you're gonna box. I tell you." He said, "About 12 to 18 months." And I was like, "Okay, yeah." Walked out of the gym and never came back. I went... I went straight to a place called Stockbridge JBC. Met a guy called Mark Kenney. Six weeks later, I had me first amateur bout and, uh, all hell breaks loose and I just think then, "I'm, I'm the Wavertree's version of Mike Tyson." I'm smashing people. You have to understand, when you first have amateur bouts, very rarely, very rarely you'll see a stoppage. My first three amateur fights all ended in f- in knockout wins. And you, you just don't see that. Uh, usually a lot of amateur fighters lose the first fight through nerves and anxiety and just being petrified. It's normal. I've only ever been nervous for two fights in me whole entire life, the very first ever amateur fight I had and then Goodison Park.

Steven Bartlett 32:14 Hmm.

Tony Bellew 32:14 So I've never been nervous for any other fight. Fighting doesn't bother me. I, I enjoy it, like I said before. So gets to the point, I get disqualified. Me temper flares in one. In the last bout I have for Stockbridge JBC, guy spits in me face. I butt him as hard as I can in the middle of the face. Referee throws me out. I then go back to Rotunda. This time, I've now had four or five bouts. Four bouts. I go back to Rotunda with me tail between me legs and I go back to Jimmy Albertina. After him telling me, it's gonna be 12, 18 months, this guy now knows who I am. He's seen me box, he's seen me fight and he's identified me as a talent. I didn't know that. I'm only told that later on in life 'cause he never, ever gave me an ounce of credit. He never once praised me. Not to me face, anyway. It was only upon him dying that I found out that he thought I was gonna be a champion. So... Which is crazy to think that he could see that, 'cause I couldn't see it at that stage. But being with him and spending time with him, he made me believe in him so much. And a part of it was because he pushed me to levels of work rate that I'd never seen before, that I never thought I was capable of. Th- how hard we worked in that gym under his tutelage was as hard as any day that I've had as a professional. It was really tough. He would demand only the best from you. And I don't know how he seen the things he's seen, but he did. The guy was a genius. He was unbelievable. So yeah, losing him was a... was the first real loss I ever had in me life. I've, I'd lost, at this stage, I think I'd lost... I'd definitely lost me uncle, uh, at that stage, which was a bit heartbreaking. He was me dad's previous partner, uh, in the business. And losing me uncle Jimmy was hard, but I could deal with it. He, he... It was a progression. He got cancer and he kind of slowly, slowly died and went away. So that was a bit hard to lose him, but, uh, the first real tragic loss I had was Jimmy. That, that was hard. Grief is the worst feeling in the world. It's the worst thing ever.

Steven Bartlett 34:09 Do you remember where you were when you got that call?

Tony Bellew 34:10 Yep. Paul Smith phoned me. I was, uh... Paul phoned me and I was just sitting there and he, and he s- and, and he was sobbing on the phone. I said, "Whoa, whoa, what's wrong? Where are you?" And he was just ca- he was crying on the phone and I couldn't understand what he was saying. And then I got the last word. He said, "Jimmy's dead." I said, "Don't be stupid. I was with him two days ago." 'Cause he, Jimmy, had a quadruple bypass and, uh... He gets the quadruple bypass and he just comes back too soon. He started training again and he had a bevvie and liked pizza and food. Jimmy was just a proper man's man. Uh, and yet he came back too soon. So when Paul phones me and tells me that Jimmy's gone, I just couldn't believe it. Remember just breaking down crying. Taking another car again with no license and driving straight to the gym. The top Jimmy gave me, I remember sitting at the gym just crying and crying, thinking, "What are we gonna do?" And, and as selfish as I am, thinking, "What's gonna happen to me career?" 'Cause at that stage then, being with Jimmy, I then knew I was gonna be a fighter forever. Once I, once I'd had two or three bouts... I won me first national championships and Jimmy was in me corner. I fight in the under-10 novice finals. I fight against a guy with the surname Mohammed. He wins the semifinal 10-nil. I go in and knock him unconscious six seconds in the final to win me first ever national title, an under-10 novice title. Cleaned him out in six seconds. Still a record.

Steven Bartlett 35:34 Still a record, isn't it? Yeah.

Tony Bellew 35:34 Still a record to this day. And, uh... Yeah, it's at that point then, "I'm gonna make me... I'm gonna, I'm gonna make it as a fighter," after that national v- final victory. And I remember running back the corner to Jimmy (laughs) and jumping on the ropes and saying, "I am the fucking best fighter you lot will ever see." You know, I was in Nottingly SportsCenter in Leeds telling everyone, "I am the king of the world. I am the best ever." Now this is just so embarrassing when I look back. This is a guy who was in his tenth amateur fight, uh, and I was telling people, "I'm gonna be a world champion." And they were... They must have been like, "What's going on?" Get's... Jumps down from the... A guy I've just rendered unconscious and he's still asleep, I've jumped down off his corner of the ropes after screaming my head off. I walk back to me corner and I says to Jimmy, "Jimmy, how good was that? It was amazing, wasn't it?" And he just looked at me and went, "It's fucking shite." (laughs) I thought-Just knock someone out in six seconds. And his response was, "Fucking shite." Lo and behold, he turns away to the other coach and just goes... And just does a face with a little thumb up. Uh, I didn't see that, once again. You'd have to look back on the video and see him do it. Uh, he never gave me praise, but then from what he told other people, like Jimmy... When Jimmy died, he got carried by six of us. Past champions, Fordham's. Present champions, Paul Smith and Mick. And future champions, who he regarded as the future of the gym, myself and Paul. Uh, and I was the future one. Bearing in mind that I'd only been round at this stage for two years and he already predicted I was going to be a future champion, so for him to, to, to predict that and say it, unbelievable. He'll stick with me forever. Uh, I have his name tattooed on me arm. Yeah, so all me tattoos mean something, so yeah. It's a... Miss him every single day. Not many days go by where I don't think of him. Uh, I'm close with his family and I love his lovely wife Bernie and his kids, Michael and James, and... Lovely family. Uh, they've now got kids and... Jimmy's affected so many people's lives massive, massive part of mine. I will never, ever forget him and I will never let his name go, you know. When I, whatever I am, I will always take his name with me.

Steven Bartlett 37:49 And then you go on and do exactly that. What, what, um, Jimmy predicted you would do.

Tony Bellew 37:55 Yeah. Which is crazy to think. I beat, win an ABA title, well I won three of them. I don't know if he predicted three-

Steven Bartlett 37:59 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 38:00 ... but I won three ABA titles. I boxed for me country, I go all round the world. I have amazing success as an amateur, bearing in mind that I've not got the style to be a good amateur boxer. My style was to render people unconscious.

Steven Bartlett 38:11 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 38:11 I've never got in a boxing ring and wanted to beat someone on points, ever. Well, that's a lie. One time I did. I got in the ring against a guy called Danny Price.

Steven Bartlett 38:20 Hmm.

Tony Bellew 38:20 And I really liked Danny. I didn't want to hurt him. It's the only time I've ever gone into a fight and didn't want to hurt someone. Uh, and yeah... Went in there and I just... I, I never... Amateur boxing is about skill and class and it's, it's, it's a proper sport. Professional boxing is a brutal, horrible business. It's not a sport. It's literally a way of life. You don't live professional boxing the way it needs to be lived, you will get found out every single time. And, and it will leave you in a bad way. Amateur boxing was a beautiful sport. I was part of a team, I was in Rotunda ABC. I had great, amazing teammates. I had amazing coaches. Understand that these coaches in these amateur gyms, they aren't there for money, 'cause there's no money in it for them. They're there for the love of the sport and to help kids. That gym has saved more lives than anywhere I've ever been in my life. Every boxing gym does, amateur gym. And people use this and use the phrase, "Oh, this thing saves life." It literally does. It saved mine. It saved numerous lads I know in that gym's lives. There's numerous lads there who have been to jail. Uh, numerous lads who have been there who have been shot, stabbed. I've shot and stabbed people. Uh, and it's, and that boxing gym has kept them on the straight and narrow. Like there was, there was so many wars that have gone on in and around that gym, but when you went in that gym, that was the safest place in the world, 'cause no one would come in that gym and do anything to anyone because that was the safety they had when you went in a boxing gym. And that was 'cause of the respect they had for someone like Jimmy. And that's what he demands, that's what saves areas. It's literally you're policing your own neighborhood.

Steven Bartlett 39:53 Hmm.

Tony Bellew 39:54 Something that has completely gone in today's environments. No one cares no more. Like there is no hierarchy within a criminal environment, there is no hierarchy on the street no more, 'cause every kid is out for themself. They do not care. That boxing gym demands respect. And no matter who you are or what you've got, you give that respect to that boxing gym. So Jimmy was a massive, massive part of that. Uh, and yeah, we were very fortunate, all of us to have him. Without him, mate, it would've changed so many like fighters lives in that place and in that community as well. I, I'm, I don't... It's not an understatement when I say he saved lives. He literally did.

Steven Bartlett 40:30 You said that the coaches, they aren't there to make money, but a lot of the fighters don't ever make good money unless they get up, up near the top of the sport, right? And I was, I was actually really surprised to hear in one of the conversations you had where you said y- you hadn't even become a millionaire until pretty late into your career.

Tony Bellew 40:45 Yeah (laughs) , I hadn't become a millionaire until I beat a fellow up called David Haye.

Steven Bartlett 40:48 Yeah. When, when you think about what you're doing for a living, you're, you're smashing your head up, you're smashing other people's faces up.

Tony Bellew 40:54 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 40:54 And it wasn't until you fought David Haye, which was in 2017, right?

Tony Bellew 40:58 Correct.

Steven Bartlett 40:59 Where you, you became a millionaire.

Tony Bellew 41:01 I-

Steven Bartlett 41:01 I remember that fight so clearly.

Tony Bellew 41:02 Thank you.

Steven Bartlett 41:02 I remember s- I think I, I have a suspicion I stayed up for it. I don't know why I think I stayed up for it, but I must've been somewhere in the world. But I remember watching that fight so clearly and how it played out. I remember every round and the twists and turns and the emotion surrounding it all. That was-

Tony Bellew 41:15 It was madness.

Steven Bartlett 41:16 ... madness.

Tony Bellew 41:17 Crazy. Yeah. I'd basically been fighting as a professional all me life at that stage. I'd both been fighting as a boxer all me life. And bearing in mind when I go into the ring against David Haye, I'm British Commonwealth European World Champion. I've achieved everything I possibly can within boxing. I'm still not a millionaire. I'm topping bills. I've fought at the Everton's football stadium, Goodison Park. I've defended meh world title at the ****** ******, you know. I've sold out multiple venues at this point. I've fought on Sky Box Office multiple times at this stage.

Steven Bartlett 41:50 And it wasn't 'cause you were spunking your money at all?

Tony Bellew 41:52 No.

Steven Bartlett 41:52 You weren't blowing your money.

Tony Bellew 41:53 I'm very wise with me money. I was, I was... At this stage, after I've won the world title and t- before the fight David Haye, I, I don't own me house outright yet. I've got property, one property that I rent out, me first house. After that, I've got the second property that I've got a mortgage on. That's all I have to me name at that stage in life.

Steven Bartlett 42:15 Why? How, how does that happen?

Tony Bellew 42:17 Because that's boxing for you.

Steven Bartlett 42:18 Is it boxing?

Tony Bellew 42:19 Yeah (laughs) .

Steven Bartlett 42:19 Yeah?

Tony Bellew 42:20 Really, that's boxing for you. That's professional fighting. Unless you turn professional with a gold medal, there ain't no money at the start. And you've got to bank on how good do you really believe you are? How much do you really believe in yourself? 'Cause you've gotta back yourself all the way. So, you know, after five professional fights, see, me hand, me left hand third knuckle here snaps in half in the fifth fight of me career. So I get an operation on it off the best surgeon in the world, his name's Mike Hayton. And I didn't even have enough money to pay for the operation.... because I fought in the December, I snapped me hand in half, me, me, me middle knuckle here, this snaps in half. And then I spend all of the 6,000 pound that I've just earned to give the kids the best Christmas they can possibly have. On January the 11th, I'm skint, I haven't got a single penny in the bank. I've got a mortgage to pay. I've got kids to provide for. But everyone thinks from the outside I'm this budding professional and I've got loads of money because I've got a new car and whatever I've hidden at this stage. I'm still living in me terraced house in Old Swan, in Liverpool. But from the outside looking in, it's like, "He's on TV."

Steven Bartlett 43:26 Mm-hmm.

Tony Bellew 43:27 "He's fighting." If I'd said to people, "I earn 6,000 pound a fight, of X amount I lose to the promoter, X amount I lose to the manager, X amount I lose to the trainer," I'm breaking even, I'm lucky if I'm getting out with four grand, three and a half. I'm lucky. After I paid the cut man, uh, uh, all the expenses and training, very lucky if you get out with that. You definitely don't clear it, because don't forget, she wants her cut as well.

Steven Bartlett 43:51 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 43:52 The Queen. HMRC. So, you know, uh, yeah, so very, very tough. So then you have to do extracurricular activities to try and earn some more money and provide for f- food on the table for your kids. So it's very, very ... I couldn't expl- I know what it's like to be skint. I know what it's like not to have a penny. I, I've felt financial pressure. I- i- it's a frightening, frightening thing, and I understand why people do the things they do. No one can tell me nothing about being skint or whatever. People say to me now, "You wouldn't know what it's like to be skint." Yes, I would. And I know what it's like to be skint with two kids as well. So it's, it's petrifying. So you figure a way out and you get through it. And say all them achievements that I've, that I've done and, and, and had, it was all of the w- w- just to maintain that dream of one day becoming a world champion. The frightening part is, imagine getting to that point in life, becoming world champion and all that, and then thinking, my wife then says to me, she was not my wife at the time, she was still my bird, well, she'll always be my bird, uh, I'm saying to her, she comes down, I win the world title at Goodison Park-

Steven Bartlett 44:57 Mm-hmm.

Tony Bellew 44:57 ... on a bank holiday Sunday, 29th of May 2016. Uh, yeah, I might as well just show you that as well. That's the belt I won.

Steven Bartlett 45:04 (laughs) Ah, from Goodison? Yeah.

Tony Bellew 45:05 From Goodison Park, that's the belt I won.

Steven Bartlett 45:07 I watched that night, a great fight.

Tony Bellew 45:08 Thank you.

Steven Bartlett 45:08 I watched it earlier on as well. (laughs)

Tony Bellew 45:10 (laughs) Thank you.

Steven Bartlett 45:10 But knockout.

Tony Bellew 45:11 So 29th of May 2016, I've completed the game, I've completed the story. The, the ... I'm someone in life who's ... I've, I've seen through me lifelong dream. My dream in life was to fight at Goodison Park, you know? That was the best I was ever gonna achieve. The WBC title at Goodison Park, I've, I've lived, I've seen me dream through. But I wake up on Monday ... well, that's a lie, I didn't wake up, I didn't sleep. So I (laughs) goes down the kitchen on Monday morning, bank holiday Monday, and me missus comes down, and she says to me, "That's it now, you've done it. It's time to stop." And I'm like, "Yeah, and I've achieved everything I set out to do and, and yeah, it's, it's gone well," I said, "but Gail was f- so financially far from security that I've got to keep going." At this stage, she now understands, 'cause she used to think boxing was a game. She used to think, like, as an amateur, she didn't even recognize it was ... she was like, "You've got headguards on, it's, it's not even boxing, it's just, it's, it's basically it's a game of tick." And I was like, "Fuck's sake, Gail, if you only knew. Let me put a headguard on you and give you a jab, you'll soon have a fucking different opinion." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 46:14 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 46:14 But she's, uh, she soon learned, she soon learned how I used to brutalize me body, cannibalize me own body. There'd be times when I, I'd come home from training and not even remember where I've been. Concussion that I'd have, uh, there's fight nights that I've had that I can't remember anything. I've turned up to arenas, had a f- 12-round fight, come home and not even known I've had a fight. I, I've been ... I, I've lost weeks at a time, me mind, because I've been dieting so hard, me body's just gone into complete overdrive. I've drove home from Sheffield multiple occasions and not remembered a single thing of how I've got home and drove, I've been on autopilot. And that's just, that's training camp, that's life. So she started to understand it, how dangerous and real it was as time went on. So once I've won the world title, she's like, "You need to stop now. It's time to just be a dad." And I'm like, "No it's not, it's, you know ... I've got to financially secure this." So then I made the, uh, the audacious thing to target a man with a pound sign on his head, and the man who had that pound sign on his head was David Haye. The way I looked at Da- I knew David from way back, from sparring many years ago when he paid me. Uh, if you ever seen the, the program Red Dwarf.

Steven Bartlett 47:24 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tony Bellew 47:24 Remember H? Well, David had a pound sign on his head like H had in Red Dwarf to me.

Steven Bartlett 47:29 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 47:29 But no one else could see it. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 47:30 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 47:30 It was just me. Added to the fact I knew I could beat him. I always knew.

Steven Bartlett 47:34 Why?

Tony Bellew 47:34 I just ... 'Cause I sparred with him 10, 15 years previously. After I won that first ABA title I'm talking about, David hired me as a sparring partner for one day.

Steven Bartlett 47:43 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 47:43 And I had, I'd never, ever been... It's still to this day, it's the hardest I've ever been hit. He hit me so hard with 16-ounce gloves on and a headguard, it made me back leg kick out like a donkey out of nowhere. And it always stuck with me. But I took it, I didn't go down. I should've went down, I still don't know to this day how I didn't, but I took it. Said to him, "Good shot." And I always remember the look in his face of, "How the fuck are you still standing?" And that look, and then me being able to go at him and put it on him, stuck with me forever. And then me dropping him later on in the sparring session let me know, even though he said ... he should've given me 1,000 pound, "David, you'll always owe me that 1,000 pound." Uh, "If you drop David, you've got 1,000 pound in cash off Adam Booth," his coach at the time. I didn't get it 'cause he said it was his leg, uh, he had a hamstring problem, that's why he went down.

Steven Bartlett 48:28 An-

Tony Bellew 48:28 Absolute bollocks. I put him down on one knee. He still owes me a grand. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 48:33 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 48:33 But, uh, yeah, I knew, and I, I actually knew after that sparring session, I'm gonna fight this man later in my career. I told David Price on the day, me and David Price sparred on that day. Uh, he was, he was getting ready to fight Mark Hobson, and I said to David Price after that sparring session, "I'm gonna fight him one day."

Steven Bartlett 48:49 David Price spun him as well, didn't he?

Tony Bellew 48:51 Yeah. And David said, uh-David said, "Uh, what are you on about?" place, he said to me. I said, "I'm telling you, one day, I'm going to fight that man." And I chased him my whole career. I knew one day I'd get to him, one day, our paths would cross. I just... Don't ask me why I know that. I don't know how I know it. It just... I just knew one day I'd fight him. I just knew.

Steven Bartlett 49:10 And so, that conversation at the kitchen table with Rachel, are you telling her at that point, after you've won that title, that you... David Haye's next?

Tony Bellew 49:17 No.

Steven Bartlett 49:17 And that it will make money?

Tony Bellew 49:17 No. I didn't tell her he was next. I told her, "Me- me f- me career is now all about money." It's no longer about my selfish needs and wanting to become world champion. She knows I'm... I can be the most selfish bastard in the world, and I've done it nu- numerous times to her in life. I've just fucked off. Listen, when my brother died, I left, and I fucked off to training camp. I'm the most selfish bastard you could meet. I... It- it's disgusting when I look back at it, but that's me. So, I'm not that anymore. I've com- I'm- I'm a different person than I was then. I- I- I s- I change all the time, and I- and I'd like to think... I'm not changing, I'm evolving, I'm getting better, I'm learning from my mistakes. But back in the day when I was fighting, I would just pack up and leave, so, you know. I went through the worst time in my whole entire life at that stage, and I just packed up and fucked off.

Steven Bartlett 50:03 Which, which stage?

Tony Bellew 50:03 So I can do that. Uh, uh, when we lost Rachel's brother, Ashley, that was the worst time in my whole entire life.

Steven Bartlett 50:08 So this was after you've, you've beaten David?

Tony Bellew 50:09 That was after the first time I beat him, but-

Steven Bartlett 50:11 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 50:11 ... yeah, I can just pack up and just kind of go. And then that was because I... You know why? 'Cause I've got a job to do. And when I was fighting, it was a job, and it was only until I achieved me goals of becoming world champion that I then... It was a dream. Before I was world champion, I w- I was chasing a dream and a goal. When that goal was achieved, I actually thought, "I'm no- I- I'll leave boxing alone." Or I didn't think I'd give it 100%. When I became financially secure, I then realized it wasn't the dream, it wasn't the money that I was chasing. I need something to drive me in life. I've only realized that nee- since I retired. So yeah,

Tony Bellew 50:49 t-

Steven Bartlett 50:49 Do you remember that feeling of looking at your bank account after that first David Haye fight and thinking, "I'm a multimillionaire, um, now, and..."? How, how... Like, what was the feeling?

Tony Bellew 51:01 Eddie Irwin phoned me, said "I've been waiting for about s- eight weeks." May have been longer, might have been, might have been 12 weeks for them, for this, for the box office money to come through. But at this stage, I already know in me mind, in the back. I've now completely relaxed. I've beat David. I've had the crazy results. I've now crossed over as well. I'm now a, a public figure. Like, as a world champion, yeah, I was known. I'd even done a Rocky movie, for fuck's sake, before this. So me fam... I, I crossed over to a different kind of set-up, group of people. I crossed over to your n- average person, so your grandmothers knew me at this stage, things like that. That's when you start... Fame really kicks in. But after beating David, it's now gone to another level, 'cause David's a crossover star. David's a great-looking kid. He's fucking David Haye, he takes his top off, he looks a million dollars. He's, he's David, innit? He's just... He's the king of the world. When I beat him, it goes absolutely insane. Uh, and I'm living now in a different world, but I ain't got the money to be living the way I'd like to live right now. I've got enough in me accounts, the business is going well. At this stage in time now, after beating David, I've got enough to start buying properties and building up our property portfolio for the family and the kids, something I'd always planned on doing. But when Eddie phones me three months later and he goes, "Tomorrow, I'm just giving you the call. The box office money's landed." He said, "And tomorrow you're going to look in your bank and you're a multimillionaire. Congratulations. If anyone deserves it, it's you." The... Me and Eddie have a backstory, and it's mad to think that I was... I could have walked away from Eddie. I didn't have n- I've never had a contract with Eddie in. I'm probably one of... I'm probably the, the highest profile fighter he's had who's made him the most money who he's never had to sign a contract with, ever. And we dealt on a handshake. Bear in mind, I was a world champion with no deal in place. I was hot property. After Goodison Park victory, the way I'd done it and the way I executed it, it was perfect. I then defend me world title and I smash some guy called BJ Flores like no one's ever done him before. I get rid of him, and then I get a phone call offering me 1.6 million pounds to fight David Haye on BT box office. And I say no. And Eddie tells me on the phone and says, "I can't offer you that money. You've got to take it." And I said, "I'm not gonna take it." I said, "We shook hands, and we're gonna see this through." He says to me, he said, "I can't give you that money. I ain't got that kind of money to give you right now." I said, "I know he wants to fight me now. He's gonna deal with you." 'Cause David didn't want to deal with Eddie. He didn't like Eddie. Uh, and yeah, so loyalty means, uh, just as much to me as well. But getting to that stage of me life was very, very difficult. I can't explain to you how hard it was, and believing in yourself, backing yourself. When that phone call came in... And at this stage, I've got a few hundred grand. I've got a r- few hundred grand that's cleared, I've paid me taxes, I've done stuff like that. But at the time, it's in a company, so I'm not really w... It's all good... You can be a multimillionaire, but it's stuck in a company. Mate, you ain't a millionaire. Until you've got that money personally and the tax is paid, and it's in your bank, which is very, very hard to do, that's when you're a multimillionaire. So, I had to wait a long time to get to that stage. Uh, but thankfully enough, I did, I carried on believing in meself. And, and I showed that I can be loyal even when tested at the most difficult of time. Because you can imagine, when I've got that phone call that night and this man's offered me 1.6 million pounds, and says to me, "I know you don't trust where this money's coming from, but I can have it at your front door tomorrow." (laughs) That's what this man says to me, "I can have it at your front door." And believe you me, this man could. I have 1.6 million pound in a suitcase at my front door the next day, and, and I say no to it. And at this time, I've got a wife who's listening to this phone call with me, and she's saying, "You better have a fucking good plan or you're going out this door."

Steven Bartlett 55:01 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 55:02 'Cause at this stage now, I've got three kids, and I've just knocked back 1.6 million pound and I'm basically worth 480 grand. And that's in a company, by the way, as well.

Steven Bartlett 55:14 Hmm.

Tony Bellew 55:15 And they're shelling me 1.6 million. It just quadruples me net worth.

Steven Bartlett 55:20 Hmm.

Tony Bellew 55:20 So, and I knock it back. I- I to this day, I still can't believe I had the audacity to do it, but, I mean, that handshake means something.

Steven Bartlett 55:29 Hmm.

Tony Bellew 55:29 So we do, we agree a deal. When the money comes in the bank, I'm not gonna lie, it, it was... What's it called when something is-

Steven Bartlett 55:39 Anti-climax?

Tony Bellew 55:40 Yeah, it... I seen it, and I had to actually go to a cash machine to see it. I had, I had online access and I could've done it that way, but I didn't. I wanted to go into a cash machine, put the digits in-

Steven Bartlett 55:51 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 55:51 ... and look at the numbers. So yeah, I wanted to see the actual di- the zeros on, on the thing and see what it looked like. And, uh, it was over. There's a word I'm looking for. It just didn't... No. That's when I realized it wasn't about money. I just thought, "This isn't, this is not all it's made out to be." It didn't ch- nothing's changed me as a person. Nothing's changed in me life. I've still got three hungry kids. I've still got a wife I adore. Uh, yeah. Nothing really changes. You know how it feels.

Steven Bartlett 56:24 Yeah, I know. I remember this. I had the same a- anti-climax feeling I've talked about on this podcast a million times of, "If this wasn't it, Steve, this is what we thought we were aiming for, and if this isn't it, then what the fuck is it?" And why was I doing all this stuff for, you know? Why was I working hard and being obsessed?

Tony Bellew 56:38 It makes me question, "Why do I keep doing what, why do I wanna keep earning?" I think now I, I wanna keep earning for the sake of, I'm trying to pass it on.

Steven Bartlett 56:48 I tell myself that as well, but I d- I think the insecure kid never dies in you. I think the kid, I, I still, I know he's still in me now. I say to myself now, "Well, I just need to get to, uh, nine figures in my bank account." And I go, "Why?" Like, who do I need to show off to?

Tony Bellew 57:04 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:04 I don't need to show... So, but it's still in me. And then I have, I never really talk about this but, I have these little moments where I start looking at Lamborghinis again, just out the blue, like four times a year. And then sometimes it overflows and I'll send it to like my manager there, I'll go, "What do you think of I bought this Range, uh, this Rolls-Royce?" Or I send it to my girlfriend, I go, "Hi babe, um, what do you think..." She'll go, "What are you fucking..." Oh, no, sorry. (laughs)

Tony Bellew 57:27 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 57:27 And I'll just, it'll be like I woke up again, like the kid took over the control room for a bit.

Tony Bellew 57:31 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:31 (laughs)

Tony Bellew 57:31 I've, someone sent me a book, um, I've, I've, I've actually downloaded, I've got it on the audio book and I haven't done it. Is it The Chimp Paradox?

Steven Bartlett 57:39 The Chimp Para- He sat here, Steve Peters, the author.

Tony Bellew 57:41 I haven't read this and I haven't listened to it yet, but people have said to me, "You should really read it."

Steven Bartlett 57:45 Yeah, you should.

Tony Bellew 57:45 And what you're s- saying to me kind of, it's the inner chimp is it?

Steven Bartlett 57:49 Yeah, so-

Tony Bellew 57:50 That we all have an inner chimp?

Steven Bartlett 57:51 The chimp brain, which is the kind of irrational, impulsive ego. It's where your anger and all of those things exist.

Tony Bellew 57:57 Okay, I haven't read it yet, so I don't know any... I've just been told, I've got it on the audible 'cause I don't really-

Steven Bartlett 58:01 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 58:01 ... read the books no more, actually looking at them. I just listen to them.

Steven Bartlett 58:04 It's changed a lot of people's lives.

Tony Bellew 58:05 I abs- I absorb it better. Has it?

Steven Bartlett 58:07 Yeah. I only listen to audio books as well, and, well, other than the... I actually downloaded your audio book for 9.99, and then I was going between both of them.

Tony Bellew 58:13 Thank you.

Steven Bartlett 58:13 So I was going, like, I'd read this, then I'd read, like, chapter two, and then I'd read this.

Tony Bellew 58:15 Did you understand it okay?

Steven Bartlett 58:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You, you-

Tony Bellew 58:17 'Cause I always think-

Steven Bartlett 58:18 ... hear him narrate the whole thing, yeah.

Tony Bellew 58:18 ... I try and, I, I try and slow down. If I'm talking to another Scouser, it's, it's out of control.

Steven Bartlett 58:24 No, it's always better when the, the author narrates it as well.

Tony Bellew 58:26 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 58:26 But, um, but you should read that book, Chimp Paradox.

Tony Bellew 58:28 I will.

Steven Bartlett 58:28 If there's one book which honestly helps you understand yourself and you go, "I wish someone had fucking told me-

Tony Bellew 58:35 Sure, sure.

Steven Bartlett 58:35 ... this 20 years ago about my own brain," it's that. With your relationships, why sometimes you'll, you argue with your wife, how to get control of those emotional moments. It's all about your chimp, like, taking over th- the brain. And Steve Peters, who's the author of the book, who s- is like this brains scientist who traveled all the way down from somewhere at the top of the country just to sit here and tell me about the chimp thing, genius. He, that book... My business partner's an alcoholic, and was all, had suicidal ideation and didn't know what was out of control with him, and he cites reading that book as the thing that made him change his life and sober.

Tony Bellew 59:07 Unbelievable. It's mad the way I've just brought that up.

Steven Bartlett 59:09 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 59:09 Because of the way you explain things.

Steven Bartlett 59:11 Y- yeah, it's honestly, really... And I actually was reading the sec- So, the author of The Chimp Paradox wrote, like, a second part to it, and I was reading it last week in Bali 'cause I was having a bit of... Me and my m- missus were arguing about something a little bit. And so I went to the page about emotional control, just to understand why we have these arguments where we just repeat ourselves on cycles.

Tony Bellew 59:31 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 59:31 And it basically explains in there that the chimp part of your brain, which is the front of your brain, it will continue to do that until it feels heard. So I put the, closed the book, I went back downstairs to my missus, and I went, I said to her, I said, "Just wanna make sure that you, you, uh, you understand I completely heard what you were saying," and I repeated back to her what she said.

Tony Bellew 59:46 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 59:46 She completely just stopped. Because the minute the chimp part of your brain feels like it's understood, then it, it's completely pacified. But until then, it will just duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. You know when your missus is like rah, rah, rah?

Tony Bellew 59:58 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 59:58 You know? I know that one.

Tony Bellew 59:59 So it, it's how to navigate life yourself and those around you. And it's all, the chimp part of our brain causes us a lot of problems, but it's-

Steven Bartlett 1:00:06 I've gotta read this fucking book.

Tony Bellew 1:00:08 Yeah, no, you, for sure, man. I've just done the, the biggest plug in the world for it, but- That is brilliant.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:12 I had a few words to say about one of my sponsors on this podcast. As the seasons have begun to change, so has my diet. And, um, right now, I'm just gonna be completely honest with you, I'm starting to think a lot about slimming down a little bit, because over the last couple of, probably the last four or five months, my diet has been pretty bad. Um, and it's started to show a little bit. Really over the last two months. I go to the gym about 80% of the time, so I track it with 10 of my friends in a WhatsApp group in this tracker online that we all use together. And so one of the things I'm doing now to reduce my calorie intake and trying to get back to being nutritionally complete in all I eat is I'm having the Huel protein shake. Thank you, Huel, for making a product that I actually like. The salted caramel is my favorite. I've got the banana one here, which is the one my girlfriend likes, but for me, salted caramel is the one.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:59 One of the moments that you talked earlier about you becoming, you kind of crossed over after that David Haye fight, one of the things I will never forget is the...... raw emotion that came out of you after you won that fight.

Tony Bellew 1:01:11 The first one or the second one?

Steven Bartlett 1:01:12 The second one, I believe.

Tony Bellew 1:01:14 Yeah, that's the one Ashley died.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:15 Because of, because of Ashley's passing.

Tony Bellew 1:01:16 Yes. That broke me to the core. Still does. Think about him every single day. But, yeah, that shit's horrible. He-

Steven Bartlett 1:01:25 He was, he was like a brother to you, and he-

Tony Bellew 1:01:26 Yeah, he's Rachel's brother, so he's basically my brother. All Rachel's brothers are my brothers, my brothers are their brothers. Uh, I've known Rach since she was nine years old. So Ashley's 18 months younger than her, so I've known Ashley since bloody hell, that makes him seven the first time I met him. Uh, yeah, that was not nice, mate. A- and listen, don't get me wrong, it affects her sisters and her brothers and her mother and her father far more than it could possibly affect me. The part that affects me the most, I, I've, I've l- I've tried me best to come to terms with losing Ash, the part that gets me the most is how I s- I see it hit my wife. It just, i- it just kills her to the core. Like, you've got to understand that them two growing up, 18 months apart, they grow up basically like twins.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:08 Mm-hmm.

Tony Bellew 1:02:09 So she adores him, he adores her, they fight, they argue constantly as, as siblings. Uh, and then one day he's here and the next day he's just gone.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:18 And he'd gone on holiday.

Tony Bellew 1:02:19 Yeah, he'd gone, uh, to be his, his best friend's best man. He was just 12. Basically he went to a wedding abroad in the most unruly country in the world, Mexico, and just doesn't come home. So yeah, petrified me. I still remember the day getting the phone call and shit like that, yeah. Horrible, horrible time. But there's not much I can say that, that hasn't already been said, just that the worst time of your life, uh, it's something that I'll never truly understand. Never.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:54 That life could be so unfair?

Tony Bellew 1:02:58 Yeah. He was just a kid who's, who's innocent. A lovely, lovely lad. Uh, do you know what? If, if, if the, if, what if I could swap places and what happened to him had happened to me, I could half say, "Well, he's seen his lifelong dream go through, he's, he's lived his life h- and he's done some bad shit too," so I can kind of accept it if it was meself. I just can't accept such a kid like that who's just such a nice... Fucking hell, just loved life, was happy, was always smiling, always telling jokes, the life of the party. Uh, yeah, it's completely unfair. That's why I have the color red and the A angel. People think I'm some kind of baseball fan. I couldn't give a shit about baseball. But, and as people will know, the red A on me arm is for Ashley, and it's in red because he was a mad Liverpool fan and followed them everywhere. Some people think I absolutely hate red (laughs) but I don't now. I actually wear it with a bit of pride. So, yeah, just so many things. Like the kid looked up to me as well. So, yeah, hard, hard time, me losing him is the hardest thing that's ever happened in me life. Bearing in mind that I've lost two grandparents, uh, seen people die and lots of crazy scenario situations, yeah, but nothing's ever affected me like that. That was worse than Jimmy. That was just fucking ... He was just here one minute and gone the next. Yeah, gone. So what can you do?

Steven Bartlett 1:04:26 You said that nearly, it impacted your relationship with Rachel as well-

Tony Bellew 1:04:29 Yeah, definitely.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:29 ... in a big way.

Tony Bellew 1:04:30 Definitely, without a shadow of a doubt. I mean, I'd hope it'd bring us closer, but I, I just don't think me wife will ever get over it. Well, I know she won't. I know she won't. It's her little brother. A- and especially when you haven't been given the answers that we should've been given a- and there's, there's, there's, there is h- there is answers out there, there's people that could give us the answers, but they, they won't. So, yeah. Yeah. Very, very hard. I, I, I say me heart breaks for me wife and her sisters, and her sister and her brother, and her mother and father especially. A child, a, a parent should never bury a child in any way, shape, or form. That is the most harrowing, frightening thing you could possibly imagine, losing one of your children. How they got through it and how they get through it, I'll never know. So, yeah. Very hard. Uh, mm-hmm. I always think of the selfish things I've done once again, of just fucking off to camp after he died and just 'cause I had to honor that rematch. I, I gave him me word I'd fight him again, and I shouldn't have. Uh, it's a regret, but I found a way to get through it and navigate through and got the job done.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:39 You regret giving him your word that you'd fight him or going -

Tony Bellew 1:05:42 No, like, off going through with it. I should never have done it. Selfish when I look back. But that's me. Uh, I gave him me word, and, and when you give someone your word, you've got to f- you've got to honor it.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:56 When you say you fucking off to camp, is that like a form of escapism where you, like, the fucking off to camp becomes this distraction where you don't have to face the pain?

Tony Bellew 1:06:04 Yeah, the pain and the truth. And bearing in mind I'm definitely facing the pain because I just cry meself to sleep every night that I'm in Sheffield. Every night I cry meself to sleep. But I know me wife's at home crying herself to sleep as well and me kids are with her. Oh, yeah. I do that for three months. So I go to camp for 12 weeks at a time. 14 weeks for that one because I knew I had to lose X amount of weight. Uh, yeah. That rematch-

Steven Bartlett 1:06:29 And you're alone in a hotel room crying?

Tony Bellew 1:06:31 Yep. Ho- Holiday Inn Express in Sheffield. Me, the microwave, and me iPad, and me just sobbing. Yeah. I used to look at pictures once a week as well on my own and just sit there. There's times I've cried and looked at pictures on my own and I've just had a cap on and me hood over and just cried watching films 'cause I just, the ... It's mad 'cause I can deal with losing Ashley, I can't deal with seeing me wife in pain. That I can't change. That's the worst part. She's still in pain and she'll, like, she, she wouldn't speak to anyone about it. She'll go ... She'll just bottle it up. I hope one day she could come to terms with it but she can't. I know she can't. It's, it's, it's the worst feeling in the world, man. It's, it's helpless.So, yeah. It's tough.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:18 You, when, in one of your interviews, when you were talking about this, you, you referenced that phase o- of your life, I think, as being you feeling like you were depressed.

Tony Bellew 1:07:25 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:25 Is that, is that accurate? You felt depressed through that.

Tony Bellew 1:07:27 If that's what depression feels like. I, I don't wanna tap on that kinda word, because I feel people use it these days to their benefit.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:33 Yeah.

Tony Bellew 1:07:33 I feel people abuse it. Uh, I feel like it's used today as a fucking traction m- part, t- to gain traction or to ... P- people actually aim from s-, money from saying they're depressed. Uh, but, yeah, if that's what depression was, yeah. Crying yourself to sleep and not being able to solve a problem. For the life of you, you don't know how to solve it. Uh, and, like, nothing made me happy. Nothing. Like, not, not ... The