The Diary of a CEOTony Bellew: Nothing Made Me Happy Until I Found This | E156
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,290 words- 0:00 – 1:22
Intro
- TBTony Bellew
Every night, I'd cry meself to sleep. Like, nothing made me happy. Nothing. (camera clicking)
- SBSteven Bartlett
(crowd cheering) Tony Bellew, what a fighter.
- TBTony Bellew
I believe I was put on this earth to fight. It was me father who taught me how to punch. And at 12, 13 years old, that's a powerful tool to show a kid.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Finding out that your brother was gay being a pivotal moment-
- TBTony Bellew
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- TBTony Bellew
In the mid-90s, it wasn't cool to be gay and Black. That's when, I'd say, the fighting took shape. I used to brutalize me body, cannibalize me own body. There's fight nights that I've had that I can't remember anything.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That shield you put up to help you to survive, I'm guessing it's not serving you.
- TBTony Bellew
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Bellew shots on his feet... Score! Bellew two, Hayne nil. One of the things I will never forget is the raw emotion that came out of you after you won that fight.
- TBTony Bellew
You know, people look at you and think you're the success story. They look at the money you've got, they look at the, the scenario and the setup you've got, but ultimately, are you happy?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Are you happy? So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (lively music)
- 1:22 – 9:05
What are the most pivotal moments of your childhood?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Tony, from reading your book and a lot of the things that you've said over the years, one of the things that really stood out to me, 'cause I think it's been front of mind, 'cause a few guests have said this to me over the last couple of weeks, is, "I was a product of my environment." And your early environment was Wavertree in Liverpool.
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Take me back to that environment and tell me what it was about that environment that shaped who you went on to be and who you are today.
- TBTony Bellew
(sighs) I am a product of me environment and, and I, I say that, and, and the way I get to that is because the... it's no coincidence I'm a fighter. I was just... I believe I was put on this earth to fight. It's something that I enjoy. It's something that I like. It's something that I'm not afraid of. Like, fighting doesn't... it never scared me, it never bothered me, and I think that's a bit weird, to be honest, but it, it's just me. I can't change who I am, and, uh, the environment I was raised in definitely helped produce that. You know, from being a kid. At the age of 10, me, me old man leaves home. Uh, he's gone, and then at that age, me little brother at that age is about six or seven. Me two elder brothers, one had moved out, and the other one was on the verge of finishing school. So the elder one who finishes school then goes on to further education, he goes to university, so we keep moving on over a few years. And then once I hit 13, 14, it's quite apparent me younger brother's gay. Uh, and then that's when, I'd say, the fighting takes shape, and things take shape, so yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You said your dad left home when you were 10?
- TBTony Bellew
Yep.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How come?
- TBTony Bellew
Uh, he couldn't keep his dick in his pants, the top and bottom of it, uh, and got caught, basically. A fantastic father, but, you know, uh, was carrying on, broke me mum's heart, and was gone, yeah? So, a product of, uh, most men, to be honest. But, uh, mm, that was the reason me dad was gone. So he was carrying on, he had an affair with some scumbag of a woman, uh, who knew he was married with four kids, and yeah, he just... he let his, uh, the thing in between... in his pants rule his head. Uh, and a thing that he regrets every single day for the rest of his life, which he constantly tells me he does, but these are the mistakes men make.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What impact did that have on your mother at the time?
- TBTony Bellew
Oh, it was heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking. As a kid growing up, it's not nice, mate, watching your mother cry herself to sleep at night. Uh, and the, the other things that go on in life, i- is heartbreaking. Very, very tough. And you'd only understand how tough it is when you look back as an older... as a, as a grown-ass man. You realize how tough and hard it really is, so heartbreaking, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Getting to see the impact of, like, infidelity in your own home, has it impacted what you're like as a man with your-
- TBTony Bellew
Oof, that's deep. I've never been asked a question like this, but, uh, it's all good. Yes, it does add a life where I try me best to learn from others' mistakes and not just me own. So I would never ever in a million years have an affair. Ain't happening. Just not going on. Not a chance. Uh, uh, things sit with me, and I say I try me best to learn from other peoples' mistakes. But yeah, growing up in that period of time and that part of me life was very, very difficult, and you just... you have to learn to adapt. So then at that stage, your hou- your home's broken, and my friends then become me family. Me, me closest friends that, uh, five or six of us that all go to school together, they become me best friends, and they become me, me brothers from thereon in. And you learn to cope with life and do things. Just 'cause me dad done what he done, he didn't detract anything from him as a father. He was a brilliant father. He's been me greatest supporter since the day I was born. He, uh, I'm as shining light, he believes in me like no one else could ever believe in me, like, he adores me. I know he does. A- and I adored him, I would do anything for me father, but yeah, them, them years when he's gone, very, very difficult, especially when he goes to prison as well, so that's hard as well.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You mentioned, um, your finding out that your brother was gay being a pivotal moment.
- TBTony Bellew
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- TBTony Bellew
We always had the... had a, had a conscious thought that he was, because me brother's gay. He's, uh, he's not... he's not like... y- it's hideaway... Y- you hear my brother before you see him (laughs) , you know? He's out there, he really is. So we knew it quite early on, but as I say, as time goes on and you see the environment that he's raised up in, he's constantly around women, uh, uh, and, and yeah, he just adapts, and we see where it's going. But I...As a family, we understand and know, we get him, I love him, he's me little brother. But then, for the outside world, it doesn't go down well. Uh, in the, uh, in the mid-90s, it wasn't cool to be gay and Black. Like, my brothers darker than me, so he's the same shade as you, uh, our Liam, and that just didn't go down well. Yeah. Picked on in school regularly. In the junior school, eh, it's not too bad, it's okay because it's kind of just looked at as being you're loud and you're out there. But when you start getting towards senior school level, it's like, "Oh, okay. He's gay." And then that comes with problems and headaches. And when you're raised in Wavertree, (exhales) being a kid growing up, I think I seen one gay man, one gay Black man, his name was Skippy. No one would mess with him because he was, like, 6-foot-3, and his name was Skippy. And he would fuck around and no one would... Someone would just leave him alone because anyone who did try to mess with him, he was gonna smack them. Uh, but my little brother wasn't that way inclined at that age. He's not smacking no one, he'd just take a slap or whatever. So, I couldn't allow that to happen, that anyone who would step to him, I would step to them. And it would always be me winning, every single time.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So you found yourself defending him a lot like, uh, from bullies and stuff?
- TBTony Bellew
Oh, yeah, uh, lots of times. Lots of times. I mean, the amount of times I've had to go up to the school. (exhales) I remember being a kid, taking me mum's car, she was away, she was on holiday, and I got a phone call saying, "Your brother's being threatened to be beat up from s- after school," or some kid threatened him. So at this time I think I was 16. Took me mum's car, which I shouldn't have done. Uh, went and got me little brother, and about, I think I smacked someone at the school. Or whoever was waiting for them, I gave them a good beating, drive them back home after being young, crashed me mum's car. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really?
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah. (laughs) And then, funny how no one's ever heard that story. Yeah, crashed then me mum's car into a taxi, and they, and then set off running for a couple of weeks. So yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
For a couple of weeks?
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah, I was gone for a couple of weeks back in the day. So yeah, you could just go missing in them days. And, uh, yeah, me mum's car was classed as being stolen and stuff like that. So yeah, lots of crazy things I've done and, and, and experienced in my life. But yeah, this is the first time I've actually spoke about that side. So, you're the first. Well done, you've dragged something up new.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. (laughs)
- TBTony Bellew
Something new.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, yeah. I'm just so genuinely curious because much of my, the reasoning behind my questioning is to really try and understand how someone came to be who they are today.
- TBTony Bellew
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And all of these, like, threads through your life of, like, the absence of your father, which creates this void where you almost become the man of the house, and then you've got this thing you need to defend in your brother. And, and even the race thing I find really interesting-
- TBTony Bellew
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
...'cause your mother is the same skin tone as me roughly, isn't she?
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah, maybe a bit darker.
- 9:05 – 13:48
Racism & its impact on you
- SBSteven Bartlett
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah, of course. So you're not Black enough for the brothers and you're not white enough-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- TBTony Bellew
... for the white people. So yeah, (laughs) I've got that-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- TBTony Bellew
... since I was a kid. But doesn't bother me in the slightest. It, it did growing up because you're trying to think, "Who do I relate to? What do I relate to?" I relate to just being a decent person, just trying to do the right thing. I've done enough bad things in me life to, to know that I'm a good person.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- TBTony Bellew
If that makes sense. So yeah, I have to... Race, color, creed, it doesn't really bother me. You're either good or you're bad.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- TBTony Bellew
But, uh, yeah, it's not hard. F- I was... I've, I've always wondered what it must've been like for me mother growing up, 'cause that must've been very difficult, especially for... You know, and I, I know it was difficult for me mother and father to be together when they first got together, 'cause my father's coming into a period at the time where the Tulsa riots are happening. And for a white man with, you know, a, a Black woman and, and Black kids and stuff, it, you know, he's had his fights regarding that as well. But for me mother, it must've been horrific at times, must've really been hard. So... But she's strong. She's a strong woman, uh, and she, she can get through anything.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I saw that a lot. My mum, obviously, my, my dad's white, my mum's from Nigeria, so-
- TBTony Bellew
Okay.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... my mum, we moved to Cornwall, right, where everyone's white (laughs) -
- TBTony Bellew
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
... when I'm, like, one or two years old. And my mum, she just constantly get, like, struggled with it. Her car being burnt by people-
- TBTony Bellew
Oh, my God.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... by people locally, shop's been broken into and everything. And y- she, she really built a, a huge amount of, I don't know, anger and resentment towards people, which I'm, I'm really happy I didn't carry with me. But, you know, at that age, even I heard racism.
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
A lot of racism on the playground and stuff like that. And being someone who wouldn't necessarily be a target of that racism-
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... but would be, could identify with the community because your, your mother's Black-
- TBTony Bellew
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... was that ever, like, a, a thing where you would hear... Pe- people would have the guts to be racist around you, but they, but, because they wouldn't think you'd be offended by it, but-
- TBTony Bellew
Did your mum give you advice on how to get through that?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Never.
- TBTony Bellew
Or did you just work it out? No?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Never. I mean, I got, I got in a few... Uh, probably the, the only significant fights I ever got in was someone calling me the N-word in school.
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I was the only Black kid in school.
- TBTony Bellew
Okay.
- 13:48 – 23:06
Your relationship with your father & his prison years
- TBTony Bellew
- SBSteven Bartlett
When I sat here with Eddie Hearn, um, it became really tran- uh, apparent that many of the successful people I meet start with this kind of innate desire to please a parent. Eddie's one of them, right?
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
He kind of lived in Barry Hearn's shadow.
- TBTony Bellew
You've spoke of a lot of people. Wow. Um, Ant, Eddie-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs)
- TBTony Bellew
... you just spoke to them all.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But he was, he was some-... And when I was reading your story, I- I saw the same thing. You had this real strong-
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... desire to impress your father. And I-
- TBTony Bellew
Without doubt.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... I'm wondering why. Why?
- TBTony Bellew
Because he's me dad. And I adore me dad, I love him. Uh... (sighs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Not everyone has that though.
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah, because not everyone has a father, and I'm very fortunate that I do. Yeah, he might not have been living at home from the age of ten, but he's still me father and he still loves me and adores me. I know he does. Me dad would do anything for his kids. He would literally die for all of us children. And, and that was passed over to me. I think that's why I adore me kids so much. But I always wanted to impress him.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why?
- TBTony Bellew
(sighs) He's me dad, so yeah. He- he's me dad, I wanted to imp- I want... A part of me wants to impress him, and a part of me wants to do more than he's done, do better. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna impress him, but I also wanna go further than where he's gone. A- and yeah, I was lucky enough and fortunate enough to be able to do it. Especially when it come... I mean, me dad was a hard man. He, my dad could fight, you know, really, really fight. But he tried the boxing, didn't stick at it, didn't go right. And it didn't go right because, not cause he's not hard enough or tough enough, just 'cause he's mentally... he can't stick with it. He can't take someone jabbing the face off him because, you know, he goes nuts. He attacks them with a steel in the second fight. Uh, he's got a wicked temper. You would never know that as, as us as his children, but I've seen it literally 'cause I've worked on nightclub doors with him. I've strapped up a bulletproof vest at the age of 19 with him, and we've been working side by side working on nightclubs.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- TBTony Bellew
So as a young kid, I just wanted to be like him. So when I realized what me dad was, he was a... He owned a nightclub security company, and uh, he ran them doors brilliantly. You know, the nightlife in our city was fantastic. We had the best club in the city. People still talk about it today, it was called Society. And uh, the policy was three to one with women to men. Though you can possibly imagine the trouble that would cause and what we would get from the outside in. Uh, and we created an environment and a place that was unbelievable. And I've watched me dad go through so many problems and fights and things like that. Whether he's been threatened to be shot, his house blown up, ran over, shot, stabbed, every possible thing you can imagine. Jailed twice. So yeah, I just wanted to impress him, so the first step was working on the door with him. Well, no, the first step was going into the boxing gym. That was the first step. Once I found out he- that he couldn't progress any further with boxing, I thought, "Okay, I'll show you I can. I'll have a go." And it started off as just a bit of a macho thing, "I'll show you this, I'll show you that." Because ultimately, I didn't really want to box, I wanted to play football. I adored having football club and I wanted to be a professional footballer, but that's just a pipe dream. And but at the ages of 12 to 16, you think you can do it. And, and I was a big believer in me own beliefs. So I thought, "If I work hard enough, I can do it." I've always synchronized working hard with getting to the end goal. I'll get there no matter how hard it is or how big the task looks. If I work hard enough, I'll get there. But that just wasn't the case with football, unlucky for me. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- TBTony Bellew
Uh, but with boxing, I- I always watched it with me dad from afar. I wasn't its biggest fan, but I studied and watched because I was intrigued by it. And then upon finding out me dad couldn't stick at it and do it, I thought, "Okay, I- I'll have a go at this." And I was just insanely good at punching people. And that was from an early age I knew, just straight away. He took me on pads. I kickboxed at first, got to a good level at that, good standard, and then knocked a couple of opponents out with punches in the face when I was only a kid at this age. That shouldn't happen. Dropped one and flattened the other one. Uh, got disqualified off both contests because it was supposed to be semi-contact. You're supposed to tap each other for the points and then point for you, you go away, let's fight again. Point for you and you get to like 11 points and you've won. I think it was 11 points. And uh-... if I'm not going to be able to hold a punch, it was like, "Ooh, you can't do this." And at this stage, it was me father who taught me how to punch. He showed me the correct way of how to turn your fist over, how to exchange your body weight from the end of your foot to the end of your fist. And at 12, 13 years old, that's a powerful tool to show a kid. But I seen how proud he was the minute I knocked them kids out in kickboxing. Even though I got disqualified and I lost, I knocked these kids out with punches and he was extremely proud. And I was like, "Oh, this is the way forward." And, and even though I, I didn't know that then, mentally and subconsciously I've took that on board. Seen how much he's praised me, seen how much he, he's, he's give me for doing it. And I, I've thought, "That's the way." So I keep flittering and messing round with that thought, and then ultimately I end up in a boxing gym. Basically trying to impress me dad, I'm not gonna lie. That's the, that was the first reasons for going into a boxing gym, an amateur boxing gym and doing it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And your dad had gone to jail twice you said? The first-
- TBTony Bellew
Yep. First time before I was born.
- SBSteven Bartlett
First time before you were born?
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And then the second time when you were roughly round ...
- TBTony Bellew
Think I was 14, 15. 14, 14, 15, yeah, somewhere there or thereabouts. I'd have to go back in the years, but around roughly that age.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's that like when you find out that your father, someone you, you admire so much-
- TBTony Bellew
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... is going to this place called jail where he's gonna be locked?
- 23:06 – 30:36
Street life & lack of role models
- SBSteven Bartlett
When your amateur boxing career starts, are you still being tempted by those kind of temptations? You talk a little bit about that in here, the-
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah, street life.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Street life?
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah. Definitely. Because there's no other way to earn. I've got no qualifications, I've been expelled from school.
- SBSteven Bartlett
For fighting, right?
- TBTony Bellew
Yep. For fighting, for smashing someone's face in. But while he was stabbing me in the head with a compass. (laughs) So yeah, it's, uh... But these are the, this is the life that, you know, you just, uh, you know, it's looked at as normal. I know when you look back now it's frightening to think that, like, if someone stabbed my son in the head with a compass, wow, it, it's truly frightening. But it, it, it didn't deter me or bother me at all. Crazy. Like I walked up to him, watched him hold the compass. And I knew I only had fists. But it didn't, it didn't intimidate me, it didn't scare me, and yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you get expelled from school at 15, what, what do you think you're gonna become in your life? Is it... Were you still thinking you might... Well, at 15 you, I guess-
- TBTony Bellew
What's the hope?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, when... If someone said, "What are you going to be when you grow up?" what would your response have been? At 15 after getting kicked out.
- TBTony Bellew
Locked up.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You thought that's what, how it was gonna play out for you?
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah, because I know I wanted nice things. At that... at the age of 15, 16, I always know I wanted nicer things.And I just, at that stage, especially being expelled from school, I had no idea that I was gonna get them.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why did you want nice things? Why was that so important?
- TBTony Bellew
'Cause, 'cause-
- SBSteven Bartlett
'Cause I've read throughout your story about these nice things.
- TBTony Bellew
You just want nice things. You just want ... So, the nice things that I looked at was, like, as a kid the only ... I can't believe how weird. So I got a gold chain. I bought this chain. Now, the only reason I have this is because I wanted that as a child and I've never grown up. It's the one thing I wanted. I thought, "Right, if I can get that, I've cracked it." I don't wear a chain out. I mean, I'll be top and show this and all that. It's just, that's not me now.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- TBTony Bellew
But as a kid growing up, I thought that was gonna be me, the chain out and the crossing it down. You know, you grow up in similar environments and that's what you want. But I get it, because in me mind I think, "I got the things I wanted." I've ... But I've worked hard and I've done it the right way. I did have it in me where I was thinking, "I'll do it the wrong way as well." And, and that, that, that's once again where they touch upon being a product of your environment, because everybody else is doing it. Anybody else who had nice things where I'm from, everyone was selling drugs. There's no other way to get nice things. No one where I'm from. I, I didn't ever see a doctor where I'm from. I didn't see a solicitor where I live. I mean, the first time I found out what a solicitor was, it was because a lorry crashed into our bus on our way to school and me mother took me to meet him.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- TBTony Bellew
That's the only reason, that's how and the only way I found out what a solicitor was.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Isn't that so crazy? It tells you so much about what's wrong with-
- TBTony Bellew
Yes, society.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... society, right?
- TBTony Bellew
Why, why are-
- SBSteven Bartlett
I went ... Have you heard of Litherland High School?
- TBTony Bellew
Lither-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Litherland School in Liverpool?
- TBTony Bellew
I know where it is, but I didn't live anywhere near. I went to a place called Childwall Comp.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I went undercover in Litherland as a teacher-
- TBTony Bellew
Did you really?
- 30:36 – 37:49
The death of your first trainer & his prediction of your success
- TBTony Bellew
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know, it's so blatantly obvious from reading chapter two that he had a profound influence on you.
- TBTony Bellew
Definitely in the short space and time I was around him and with him, I just... I got him. And the very first time I met him, I thought, "Uh, it's never gonna work." So the very first time I met him, he, he basically just shrugged me off and thought, "I'm not gonna..." H- he obviously seen a talent. So I walked in... Before I actually had an amateur bout, I walked in the Rotunda A.B.C. and I started punching a bag. This had been the second gym I tried out. So I went in this gym and, uh, punched a bag and he comes over. He says, "Wha- have you ever boxed before?" I said, "No, I've never boxed." He said, "Don't tell lies." He said, "How many bouts have you had?" I said, "I've never had a bout in me life." He said, "Kids who've never had a bout don't hit a bag like you. How many bouts have you had?" I said, "I've had no bouts," I said, "but when can I have a bout?" To that smart-ass comment from me, he replied, "You don't tell me, boy, when you're gonna box. I tell you." He said, "About 12 to 18 months." And I was like, "Okay, yeah." Walked out of the gym and never came back. I went... I went straight to a place called Stockbridge JBC. Met a guy called Mark Kenney. Six weeks later, I had me first amateur bout and, uh, all hell breaks loose and I just think then, "I'm, I'm the Wavertree's version of Mike Tyson." I'm smashing people. You have to understand, when you first have amateur bouts, very rarely, very rarely you'll see a stoppage. My first three amateur fights all ended in f- in knockout wins. And you, you just don't see that. Uh, usually a lot of amateur fighters lose the first fight through nerves and anxiety and just being petrified. It's normal. I've only ever been nervous for two fights in me whole entire life, the very first ever amateur fight I had and then Goodison Park.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- TBTony Bellew
So I've never been nervous for any other fight. Fighting doesn't bother me. I, I enjoy it, like I said before. So gets to the point, I get disqualified. Me temper flares in one. In the last bout I have for Stockbridge JBC, guy spits in me face. I butt him as hard as I can in the middle of the face. Referee throws me out. I then go back to Rotunda. This time, I've now had four or five bouts. Four bouts. I go back to Rotunda with me tail between me legs and I go back to Jimmy Albertina. After him telling me, it's gonna be 12, 18 months, this guy now knows who I am. He's seen me box, he's seen me fight and he's identified me as a talent. I didn't know that. I'm only told that later on in life 'cause he never, ever gave me an ounce of credit. He never once praised me. Not to me face, anyway. It was only upon him dying that I found out that he thought I was gonna be a champion. So... Which is crazy to think that he could see that, 'cause I couldn't see it at that stage. But being with him and spending time with him, he made me believe in him so much. And a part of it was because he pushed me to levels of work rate that I'd never seen before, that I never thought I was capable of. Th- how hard we worked in that gym under his tutelage was as hard as any day that I've had as a professional. It was really tough. He would demand only the best from you. And I don't know how he seen the things he's seen, but he did. The guy was a genius. He was unbelievable. So yeah, losing him was a... was the first real loss I ever had in me life. I've, I'd lost, at this stage, I think I'd lost... I'd definitely lost me uncle, uh, at that stage, which was a bit heartbreaking. He was me dad's previous partner, uh, in the business. And losing me uncle Jimmy was hard, but I could deal with it. He, he... It was a progression. He got cancer and he kind of slowly, slowly died and went away. So that was a bit hard to lose him, but, uh, the first real tragic loss I had was Jimmy. That, that was hard. Grief is the worst feeling in the world. It's the worst thing ever.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you remember where you were when you got that call?
- TBTony Bellew
Yep. Paul Smith phoned me. I was, uh... Paul phoned me and I was just sitting there and he, and he s- and, and he was sobbing on the phone. I said, "Whoa, whoa, what's wrong? Where are you?" And he was just ca- he was crying on the phone and I couldn't understand what he was saying. And then I got the last word. He said, "Jimmy's dead." I said, "Don't be stupid. I was with him two days ago." 'Cause he, Jimmy, had a quadruple bypass and, uh... He gets the quadruple bypass and he just comes back too soon. He started training again and he had a bevvie and liked pizza and food. Jimmy was just a proper man's man. Uh, and yet he came back too soon. So when Paul phones me and tells me that Jimmy's gone, I just couldn't believe it. Remember just breaking down crying. Taking another car again with no license and driving straight to the gym. The top Jimmy gave me, I remember sitting at the gym just crying and crying, thinking, "What are we gonna do?" And, and as selfish as I am, thinking, "What's gonna happen to me career?" 'Cause at that stage then, being with Jimmy, I then knew I was gonna be a fighter forever. Once I, once I'd had two or three bouts... I won me first national championships and Jimmy was in me corner. I fight in the under-10 novice finals. I fight against a guy with the surname Mohammed. He wins the semifinal 10-nil. I go in and knock him unconscious six seconds in the final to win me first ever national title, an under-10 novice title. Cleaned him out in six seconds. Still a record.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Still a record, isn't it? Yeah.
- TBTony Bellew
Still a record to this day. And, uh... Yeah, it's at that point then, "I'm gonna make me... I'm gonna, I'm gonna make it as a fighter," after that national v- final victory. And I remember running back the corner to Jimmy (laughs) and jumping on the ropes and saying, "I am the fucking best fighter you lot will ever see." You know, I was in Nottingly SportsCenter in Leeds telling everyone, "I am the king of the world. I am the best ever." Now this is just so embarrassing when I look back. This is a guy who was in his tenth amateur fight, uh, and I was telling people, "I'm gonna be a world champion." And they were... They must have been like, "What's going on?" Get's... Jumps down from the... A guy I've just rendered unconscious and he's still asleep, I've jumped down off his corner of the ropes after screaming my head off. I walk back to me corner and I says to Jimmy, "Jimmy, how good was that? It was amazing, wasn't it?" And he just looked at me and went, "It's fucking shite." (laughs) I thought-Just knock someone out in six seconds. And his response was, "Fucking shite." Lo and behold, he turns away to the other coach and just goes... And just does a face with a little thumb up. Uh, I didn't see that, once again. You'd have to look back on the video and see him do it. Uh, he never gave me praise, but then from what he told other people, like Jimmy... When Jimmy died, he got carried by six of us. Past champions, Fordham's. Present champions, Paul Smith and Mick. And future champions, who he regarded as the future of the gym, myself and Paul. Uh, and I was the future one. Bearing in mind that I'd only been round at this stage for two years and he already predicted I was going to be a future champion, so for him to, to, to predict that and say it, unbelievable. He'll stick with me forever. Uh, I have his name tattooed on me arm. Yeah, so all me tattoos mean something, so yeah. It's a... Miss him every single day. Not many days go by where I don't think of him. Uh, I'm close with his family and I love his lovely wife Bernie and his kids, Michael and James, and... Lovely family. Uh, they've now got kids and... Jimmy's affected so many people's lives massive, massive part of mine. I will never, ever forget him and I will never let his name go, you know. When I, whatever I am, I will always take his name with me.
- 37:49 – 50:49
Becoming a world champion
- TBTony Bellew
- SBSteven Bartlett
And then you go on and do exactly that. What, what, um, Jimmy predicted you would do.
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah. Which is crazy to think. I beat, win an ABA title, well I won three of them. I don't know if he predicted three-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- TBTony Bellew
... but I won three ABA titles. I boxed for me country, I go all round the world. I have amazing success as an amateur, bearing in mind that I've not got the style to be a good amateur boxer. My style was to render people unconscious.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- TBTony Bellew
I've never got in a boxing ring and wanted to beat someone on points, ever. Well, that's a lie. One time I did. I got in the ring against a guy called Danny Price.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- TBTony Bellew
And I really liked Danny. I didn't want to hurt him. It's the only time I've ever gone into a fight and didn't want to hurt someone. Uh, and yeah... Went in there and I just... I, I never... Amateur boxing is about skill and class and it's, it's, it's a proper sport. Professional boxing is a brutal, horrible business. It's not a sport. It's literally a way of life. You don't live professional boxing the way it needs to be lived, you will get found out every single time. And, and it will leave you in a bad way. Amateur boxing was a beautiful sport. I was part of a team, I was in Rotunda ABC. I had great, amazing teammates. I had amazing coaches. Understand that these coaches in these amateur gyms, they aren't there for money, 'cause there's no money in it for them. They're there for the love of the sport and to help kids. That gym has saved more lives than anywhere I've ever been in my life. Every boxing gym does, amateur gym. And people use this and use the phrase, "Oh, this thing saves life." It literally does. It saved mine. It saved numerous lads I know in that gym's lives. There's numerous lads there who have been to jail. Uh, numerous lads who have been there who have been shot, stabbed. I've shot and stabbed people. Uh, and it's, and that boxing gym has kept them on the straight and narrow. Like there was, there was so many wars that have gone on in and around that gym, but when you went in that gym, that was the safest place in the world, 'cause no one would come in that gym and do anything to anyone because that was the safety they had when you went in a boxing gym. And that was 'cause of the respect they had for someone like Jimmy. And that's what he demands, that's what saves areas. It's literally you're policing your own neighborhood.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- TBTony Bellew
Something that has completely gone in today's environments. No one cares no more. Like there is no hierarchy within a criminal environment, there is no hierarchy on the street no more, 'cause every kid is out for themself. They do not care. That boxing gym demands respect. And no matter who you are or what you've got, you give that respect to that boxing gym. So Jimmy was a massive, massive part of that. Uh, and yeah, we were very fortunate, all of us to have him. Without him, mate, it would've changed so many like fighters lives in that place and in that community as well. I, I'm, I don't... It's not an understatement when I say he saved lives. He literally did.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You said that the coaches, they aren't there to make money, but a lot of the fighters don't ever make good money unless they get up, up near the top of the sport, right? And I was, I was actually really surprised to hear in one of the conversations you had where you said y- you hadn't even become a millionaire until pretty late into your career.
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah (laughs) , I hadn't become a millionaire until I beat a fellow up called David Haye.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. When, when you think about what you're doing for a living, you're, you're smashing your head up, you're smashing other people's faces up.
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And it wasn't until you fought David Haye, which was in 2017, right?
- TBTony Bellew
Correct.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Where you, you became a millionaire.
- TBTony Bellew
I-
- SBSteven Bartlett
I remember that fight so clearly.
- TBTony Bellew
Thank you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I remember s- I think I, I have a suspicion I stayed up for it. I don't know why I think I stayed up for it, but I must've been somewhere in the world. But I remember watching that fight so clearly and how it played out. I remember every round and the twists and turns and the emotion surrounding it all. That was-
- TBTony Bellew
It was madness.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... madness.
- TBTony Bellew
Crazy. Yeah. I'd basically been fighting as a professional all me life at that stage. I'd both been fighting as a boxer all me life. And bearing in mind when I go into the ring against David Haye, I'm British Commonwealth European World Champion. I've achieved everything I possibly can within boxing. I'm still not a millionaire. I'm topping bills. I've fought at the Everton's football stadium, Goodison Park. I've defended meh world title at the ****** ******, you know. I've sold out multiple venues at this point. I've fought on Sky Box Office multiple times at this stage.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And it wasn't 'cause you were spunking your money at all?
- TBTony Bellew
No.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You weren't blowing your money.
- TBTony Bellew
I'm very wise with me money. I was, I was... At this stage, after I've won the world title and t- before the fight David Haye, I, I don't own me house outright yet. I've got property, one property that I rent out, me first house. After that, I've got the second property that I've got a mortgage on. That's all I have to me name at that stage in life.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why? How, how does that happen?
- 50:49 – 56:24
How much boxers actually make
- TBTony Bellew
t-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Do you remember that feeling of looking at your bank account after that first David Haye fight and thinking, "I'm a multimillionaire, um, now, and..."? How, how... Like, what was the feeling?
- TBTony Bellew
Eddie Irwin phoned me, said "I've been waiting for about s- eight weeks." May have been longer, might have been, might have been 12 weeks for them, for this, for the box office money to come through. But at this stage, I already know in me mind, in the back. I've now completely relaxed. I've beat David. I've had the crazy results. I've now crossed over as well. I'm now a, a public figure. Like, as a world champion, yeah, I was known. I'd even done a Rocky movie, for fuck's sake, before this. So me fam... I, I crossed over to a different kind of set-up, group of people. I crossed over to your n- average person, so your grandmothers knew me at this stage, things like that. That's when you start... Fame really kicks in. But after beating David, it's now gone to another level, 'cause David's a crossover star. David's a great-looking kid. He's fucking David Haye, he takes his top off, he looks a million dollars. He's, he's David, innit? He's just... He's the king of the world. When I beat him, it goes absolutely insane. Uh, and I'm living now in a different world, but I ain't got the money to be living the way I'd like to live right now. I've got enough in me accounts, the business is going well. At this stage in time now, after beating David, I've got enough to start buying properties and building up our property portfolio for the family and the kids, something I'd always planned on doing. But when Eddie phones me three months later and he goes, "Tomorrow, I'm just giving you the call. The box office money's landed." He said, "And tomorrow you're going to look in your bank and you're a multimillionaire. Congratulations. If anyone deserves it, it's you." The... Me and Eddie have a backstory, and it's mad to think that I was... I could have walked away from Eddie. I didn't have n- I've never had a contract with Eddie in. I'm probably one of... I'm probably the, the highest profile fighter he's had who's made him the most money who he's never had to sign a contract with, ever. And we dealt on a handshake. Bear in mind, I was a world champion with no deal in place. I was hot property. After Goodison Park victory, the way I'd done it and the way I executed it, it was perfect. I then defend me world title and I smash some guy called BJ Flores like no one's ever done him before. I get rid of him, and then I get a phone call offering me 1.6 million pounds to fight David Haye on BT box office. And I say no. And Eddie tells me on the phone and says, "I can't offer you that money. You've got to take it." And I said, "I'm not gonna take it." I said, "We shook hands, and we're gonna see this through." He says to me, he said, "I can't give you that money. I ain't got that kind of money to give you right now." I said, "I know he wants to fight me now. He's gonna deal with you." 'Cause David didn't want to deal with Eddie. He didn't like Eddie. Uh, and yeah, so loyalty means, uh, just as much to me as well. But getting to that stage of me life was very, very difficult. I can't explain to you how hard it was, and believing in yourself, backing yourself. When that phone call came in... And at this stage, I've got a few hundred grand. I've got a r- few hundred grand that's cleared, I've paid me taxes, I've done stuff like that. But at the time, it's in a company, so I'm not really w... It's all good... You can be a multimillionaire, but it's stuck in a company. Mate, you ain't a millionaire. Until you've got that money personally and the tax is paid, and it's in your bank, which is very, very hard to do, that's when you're a multimillionaire. So, I had to wait a long time to get to that stage. Uh, but thankfully enough, I did, I carried on believing in meself. And, and I showed that I can be loyal even when tested at the most difficult of time. Because you can imagine, when I've got that phone call that night and this man's offered me 1.6 million pounds, and says to me, "I know you don't trust where this money's coming from, but I can have it at your front door tomorrow." (laughs) That's what this man says to me, "I can have it at your front door." And believe you me, this man could. I have 1.6 million pound in a suitcase at my front door the next day, and, and I say no to it. And at this time, I've got a wife who's listening to this phone call with me, and she's saying, "You better have a fucking good plan or you're going out this door."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- TBTony Bellew
'Cause at this stage now, I've got three kids, and I've just knocked back 1.6 million pound and I'm basically worth 480 grand. And that's in a company, by the way, as well.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- TBTony Bellew
And they're shelling me 1.6 million. It just quadruples me net worth.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- TBTony Bellew
So, and I knock it back. I- I to this day, I still can't believe I had the audacity to do it, but, I mean, that handshake means something.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- TBTony Bellew
So we do, we agree a deal. When the money comes in the bank, I'm not gonna lie, it, it was... What's it called when something is-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Anti-climax?
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah, it... I seen it, and I had to actually go to a cash machine to see it. I had, I had online access and I could've done it that way, but I didn't. I wanted to go into a cash machine, put the digits in-
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- TBTony Bellew
... and look at the numbers. So yeah, I wanted to see the actual di- the zeros on, on the thing and see what it looked like. And, uh, it was over. There's a word I'm looking for. It just didn't... No. That's when I realized it wasn't about money. I just thought, "This isn't, this is not all it's made out to be." It didn't ch- nothing's changed me as a person. Nothing's changed in me life. I've still got three hungry kids. I've still got a wife I adore. Uh, yeah. Nothing really changes. You know how it feels.
- 56:24 – 1:00:58
Chimp Paradox
- TBTony Bellew
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, I know. I remember this. I had the same a- anti-climax feeling I've talked about on this podcast a million times of, "If this wasn't it, Steve, this is what we thought we were aiming for, and if this isn't it, then what the fuck is it?" And why was I doing all this stuff for, you know? Why was I working hard and being obsessed?
- TBTony Bellew
It makes me question, "Why do I keep doing what, why do I wanna keep earning?" I think now I, I wanna keep earning for the sake of, I'm trying to pass it on.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I tell myself that as well, but I d- I think the insecure kid never dies in you. I think the kid, I, I still, I know he's still in me now. I say to myself now, "Well, I just need to get to, uh, nine figures in my bank account." And I go, "Why?" Like, who do I need to show off to?
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I don't need to show... So, but it's still in me. And then I have, I never really talk about this but, I have these little moments where I start looking at Lamborghinis again, just out the blue, like four times a year. And then sometimes it overflows and I'll send it to like my manager there, I'll go, "What do you think of I bought this Range, uh, this Rolls-Royce?" Or I send it to my girlfriend, I go, "Hi babe, um, what do you think..." She'll go, "What are you fucking..." Oh, no, sorry. (laughs)
- TBTony Bellew
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I'll just, it'll be like I woke up again, like the kid took over the control room for a bit.
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- TBTony Bellew
I've, someone sent me a book, um, I've, I've, I've actually downloaded, I've got it on the audio book and I haven't done it. Is it The Chimp Paradox?
- SBSteven Bartlett
The Chimp Para- He sat here, Steve Peters, the author.
- TBTony Bellew
I haven't read this and I haven't listened to it yet, but people have said to me, "You should really read it."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, you should.
- TBTony Bellew
And what you're s- saying to me kind of, it's the inner chimp is it?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, so-
- TBTony Bellew
That we all have an inner chimp?
- SBSteven Bartlett
The chimp brain, which is the kind of irrational, impulsive ego. It's where your anger and all of those things exist.
- TBTony Bellew
Okay, I haven't read it yet, so I don't know any... I've just been told, I've got it on the audible 'cause I don't really-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- TBTony Bellew
... read the books no more, actually looking at them. I just listen to them.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It's changed a lot of people's lives.
- TBTony Bellew
I abs- I absorb it better. Has it?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah. I only listen to audio books as well, and, well, other than the... I actually downloaded your audio book for 9.99, and then I was going between both of them.
- TBTony Bellew
Thank you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So I was going, like, I'd read this, then I'd read, like, chapter two, and then I'd read this.
- TBTony Bellew
Did you understand it okay?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You, you-
- TBTony Bellew
'Cause I always think-
- SBSteven Bartlett
... hear him narrate the whole thing, yeah.
- 1:00:58 – 1:10:53
Dealing with grief & depression
- SBSteven Bartlett
One of the moments that you talked earlier about you becoming, you kind of crossed over after that David Haye fight, one of the things I will never forget is the...... raw emotion that came out of you after you won that fight.
- TBTony Bellew
The first one or the second one?
- SBSteven Bartlett
The second one, I believe.
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah, that's the one Ashley died.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Because of, because of Ashley's passing.
- TBTony Bellew
Yes. That broke me to the core. Still does. Think about him every single day. But, yeah, that shit's horrible. He-
- SBSteven Bartlett
He was, he was like a brother to you, and he-
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah, he's Rachel's brother, so he's basically my brother. All Rachel's brothers are my brothers, my brothers are their brothers. Uh, I've known Rach since she was nine years old. So Ashley's 18 months younger than her, so I've known Ashley since bloody hell, that makes him seven the first time I met him. Uh, yeah, that was not nice, mate. A- and listen, don't get me wrong, it affects her sisters and her brothers and her mother and her father far more than it could possibly affect me. The part that affects me the most, I, I've, I've l- I've tried me best to come to terms with losing Ash, the part that gets me the most is how I s- I see it hit my wife. It just, i- it just kills her to the core. Like, you've got to understand that them two growing up, 18 months apart, they grow up basically like twins.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- TBTony Bellew
So she adores him, he adores her, they fight, they argue constantly as, as siblings. Uh, and then one day he's here and the next day he's just gone.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And he'd gone on holiday.
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah, he'd gone, uh, to be his, his best friend's best man. He was just 12. Basically he went to a wedding abroad in the most unruly country in the world, Mexico, and just doesn't come home. So yeah, petrified me. I still remember the day getting the phone call and shit like that, yeah. Horrible, horrible time. But there's not much I can say that, that hasn't already been said, just that the worst time of your life, uh, it's something that I'll never truly understand. Never.
- SBSteven Bartlett
That life could be so unfair?
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah. He was just a kid who's, who's innocent. A lovely, lovely lad. Uh, do you know what? If, if, if the, if, what if I could swap places and what happened to him had happened to me, I could half say, "Well, he's seen his lifelong dream go through, he's, he's lived his life h- and he's done some bad shit too," so I can kind of accept it if it was meself. I just can't accept such a kid like that who's just such a nice... Fucking hell, just loved life, was happy, was always smiling, always telling jokes, the life of the party. Uh, yeah, it's completely unfair. That's why I have the color red and the A angel. People think I'm some kind of baseball fan. I couldn't give a shit about baseball. But, and as people will know, the red A on me arm is for Ashley, and it's in red because he was a mad Liverpool fan and followed them everywhere. Some people think I absolutely hate red (laughs) but I don't now. I actually wear it with a bit of pride. So, yeah, just so many things. Like the kid looked up to me as well. So, yeah, hard, hard time, me losing him is the hardest thing that's ever happened in me life. Bearing in mind that I've lost two grandparents, uh, seen people die and lots of crazy scenario situations, yeah, but nothing's ever affected me like that. That was worse than Jimmy. That was just fucking ... He was just here one minute and gone the next. Yeah, gone. So what can you do?
- SBSteven Bartlett
You said that nearly, it impacted your relationship with Rachel as well-
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah, definitely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... in a big way.
- TBTony Bellew
Definitely, without a shadow of a doubt. I mean, I'd hope it'd bring us closer, but I, I just don't think me wife will ever get over it. Well, I know she won't. I know she won't. It's her little brother. A- and especially when you haven't been given the answers that we should've been given a- and there's, there's, there's, there is h- there is answers out there, there's people that could give us the answers, but they, they won't. So, yeah. Yeah. Very, very hard. I, I, I say me heart breaks for me wife and her sisters, and her sister and her brother, and her mother and father especially. A child, a, a parent should never bury a child in any way, shape, or form. That is the most harrowing, frightening thing you could possibly imagine, losing one of your children. How they got through it and how they get through it, I'll never know. So, yeah. Very hard. Uh, mm-hmm. I always think of the selfish things I've done once again, of just fucking off to camp after he died and just 'cause I had to honor that rematch. I, I gave him me word I'd fight him again, and I shouldn't have. Uh, it's a regret, but I found a way to get through it and navigate through and got the job done.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You regret giving him your word that you'd fight him or going -
- TBTony Bellew
No, like, off going through with it. I should never have done it. Selfish when I look back. But that's me. Uh, I gave him me word, and, and when you give someone your word, you've got to f- you've got to honor it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you say you fucking off to camp, is that like a form of escapism where you, like, the fucking off to camp becomes this distraction where you don't have to face the pain?
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah, the pain and the truth. And bearing in mind I'm definitely facing the pain because I just cry meself to sleep every night that I'm in Sheffield. Every night I cry meself to sleep. But I know me wife's at home crying herself to sleep as well and me kids are with her. Oh, yeah. I do that for three months. So I go to camp for 12 weeks at a time. 14 weeks for that one because I knew I had to lose X amount of weight. Uh, yeah. That rematch-
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you're alone in a hotel room crying?
- TBTony Bellew
Yep. Ho- Holiday Inn Express in Sheffield. Me, the microwave, and me iPad, and me just sobbing. Yeah. I used to look at pictures once a week as well on my own and just sit there. There's times I've cried and looked at pictures on my own and I've just had a cap on and me hood over and just cried watching films 'cause I just, the ... It's mad 'cause I can deal with losing Ashley, I can't deal with seeing me wife in pain. That I can't change. That's the worst part. She's still in pain and she'll, like, she, she wouldn't speak to anyone about it. She'll go ... She'll just bottle it up. I hope one day she could come to terms with it but she can't. I know she can't. It's, it's, it's the worst feeling in the world, man. It's, it's helpless.So, yeah. It's tough.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You, when, in one of your interviews, when you were talking about this, you, you referenced that phase o- of your life, I think, as being you feeling like you were depressed.
- TBTony Bellew
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Is that, is that accurate? You felt depressed through that.
- TBTony Bellew
If that's what depression feels like. I, I don't wanna tap on that kinda word, because I feel people use it these days to their benefit.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Yeah.
- TBTony Bellew
I feel people abuse it. Uh, I feel like it's used today as a fucking traction m- part, t- to gain traction or to ... P- people actually aim from s-, money from saying they're depressed. Uh, but, yeah, if that's what depression was, yeah. Crying yourself to sleep and not being able to solve a problem. For the life of you, you don't know how to solve it. Uh, and, like, nothing made me happy. Nothing. Like, not, not ... The only time I was ever happy is when I seen her smile, when I seen her smile, and that was very briefly in that period of time. Like, even now, to start and look at her, I know she's thinking about her brother. Even now. We've been past ... Be five years in August. Yeah, four or five years in August. And I know she's thinking about him. I just know. But I can't change that, and that's the, the saddest part, because as a, as a husband, I should be able to do something about that, but I can't. You know? That, that's the one thing you, you, if you're ... I'm her husband, I'm her partner, I should be able to be there for her and be the comfort blanket, but I can't. I can't change it. So, yeah, that's hard. It's tough.
Episode duration: 1:25:14
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