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Richard Hanania - Foreign Policy, Fertility, and Experts

Richard Hanania is the President of the Center for the Study of Partisanship and Ideology and the author of Public Choice Theory and the Illusion of Grand Strategy: How Generals, Weapons Manufacturers, and Foreign Governments Shape American Foreign Policy. Podcast website + Transcript: https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/p/richard-hanania Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3ea468G Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3KAb3fg Follow me on Twitter to be notified of future content: https://twitter.com/dwarkesh_sp Follow Richard on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RichardHanania Buy the book: https://amzn.to/3wL2AQN Read Richard's Substack: https://richardhanania.substack.com/ Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro 0:04:35 Did war prevent sclerosis? 0:06:05 China vs America's grand strategy 0:10:00 Does the president have more power over foreign policy? 0:11:30 How to deter bad actors? 0:15:39 Do some countries have a coherent foreign policy? 0:16:55 Why does self-interest matter in foreign but not domestic policy? 0:21:05 Should we limit money in politics? 0:23:47 Should we credit expertise for nuclear detante and global prosperity? 0:28:45 Have international alliances made us safer? 0:31:57 Why does academic bueracracy work in some fields? 0:36:26 Did academia suck even before diversity? 0:39:34 How do we get expertise in social sciences? 0:42:19 Why are things more liberal? 0:43:55 Why is big tech so liberal? 0:47:53 Authoritarian populism vs libertarianism 0:51:40 Can authoritarian governments increase fertility? 0:54:54 Will increasing fertility be dysgenic? 0:56:43 Will not having kids become cool? 0:59:22 Advice for libertarians?

Richard HananiaguestDwarkesh Patelhost
Feb 24, 20221h 2mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Richard Hanania Dissects Foreign Policy Myths, Wokeness, and Falling Fertility

  1. Richard Hanania discusses his book arguing that U.S. foreign policy is better explained by public choice theory and interest-group politics than by any coherent grand strategy. He contrasts the supposed rational, unified “national interest” with messy, domestically driven incentives that produce sanctions, wars, and alliances that often lack consistency or effectiveness.
  2. The conversation broadens into a critique of expertise and social science, claiming many expert-driven institutions—especially in international relations, criminology, and COVID policy—are captured by ideology and lack market-style feedback or accountability.
  3. Hanania then analyzes why liberalism and wokeness have advanced institutionally, emphasizing asymmetries in political engagement, the structure of civil rights law, and the culture of elite sectors like tech, academia, and media.
  4. Finally, he examines fertility collapse and the potential for authoritarian or culturally interventionist states (especially China) to engineer higher birth rates, and he sketches what a realistic libertarian anti-woke strategy might look like in a polarized America.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Foreign policy is driven more by fragmented interests than by a unified grand strategy.

Hanania argues that U.S. actions abroad—wars, sanctions, basing decisions—are best understood through public choice theory: bureaucracies, lobbies, and foreign governments push narrow agendas, rather than a rational state pursuing a coherent national plan.

Sanctions and regime change often fail and can worsen humanitarian and geopolitical outcomes.

Cases like Venezuela, Iran, and Iraq suggest U.S. tools such as broad sanctions and interventions rarely achieve stated aims, impose huge civilian costs, and frequently destabilize regions without improving security or governance.

Authoritarian systems can produce more coherent—but not necessarily wiser—foreign policies.

China’s more focused, regional, and goal-aligned actions (e.g., targeted punishment of Lithuania) contrast with sprawling U.S. engagements like Iraq and Afghanistan, illustrating coherence without guaranteeing good judgment.

Expert-driven social sciences often lack real-world feedback and are vulnerable to ideology.

Unlike hard sciences tethered to experiment and markets, fields like IR, criminology, and parts of psychology operate amid strong social-desirability pressures and weak falsification, enabling fads, politicization, and selective “expert” legitimation.

Wokeness advanced because highly motivated liberals colonized key institutions under favorable rules.

Hanania highlights that liberals care more, organize more, and operate in sectors like academia, media, NGOs, tech, and bureaucracy, while civil rights law and HR regimes structurally empower their priorities inside organizations.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

We don’t think there’s a grand strategy of the US government for immigration or healthcare, but for some reason we imagine one exists for foreign policy.

Richard Hanania

When the US sanctions somebody, it destroys the economy and then never talks to them again; that’s far less coherent than what China usually does.

Richard Hanania

The idea of expertise can be harmful because it gives people in power a veneer of legitimacy to do irrational things.

Richard Hanania

As humans have become more able to afford kids, they’ve tended to have fewer of them—that’s a strong argument against fertility being mainly an economic issue.

Richard Hanania

You actually haven’t done anything close to libertarianism, and now you’re making libertarianism the scapegoat for all these negative trends.

Richard Hanania

Public choice theory versus grand strategy in explaining U.S. foreign policyEffectiveness and consequences of sanctions, regime change, and military interventionsDifferences between democracies and autocracies (e.g., China) in foreign policy coherenceLimits and failures of academic expertise in social sciences and international relationsRise of wokeness, institutional liberalism, and engagement asymmetries between left and rightGovernment, culture, and policy tools for addressing low fertility and pronatalismStrategic options for libertarians and anti‑woke conservatives in a polarized system

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