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Still The Coolest Smartphone Startup in Tech Scene 2025 | Nothing, Carl Pei

Today's guest is Carl Pei, the CEO of Nothing (nothing.tech). This smartphone company is rapidly growing among giants like Apple and Samsung.

EO Studiohost

Sep 17, 202420mWatch on YouTube

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CHAPTERS

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Chapter summaries

Growing Up Online and Heading to China
Carl Pei describes being born in Beijing, raised in Sweden, and building websites from age 12. He recounts jailbreaking an imported iPhone and moving to South China for a year to export goods.
- •Born in Beijing, left at age four and grew up in Sweden
- •Started making websites at 12 with a good internet connection and HTML lessons
- •Bought an iPhone through an American friend and was struck by the multi-touch screen
- •Moved to South China after high school to sell clothing and MP3 players online
- •His parents were upset and wanted him to return to school
Dropping Out of Business School
Back in Sweden, Carl attended the country's best business school but found it ignored tech companies and e-commerce. He left without writing his thesis or taking his diploma, despite his parents' reaction.
- •Business school taught century-old theories and no tech or e-commerce
- •Skipped the thesis and left without a diploma
- •Parents feared he couldn't get a job without a diploma
- •Planned to apply to Y Combinator, inspired by a friend who got in young
Chinese Smartphone Wars: Meizu, OPPO and OnePlus
Carl joined Meizu, lost respect for its depressed founder after Xiaomi's rise, and moved to OPPO, where he joined the founding team of OnePlus. He led the international push, which outgrew the China business within a year.
- •Joined Meizu after being invited to move to China
- •Left Meizu after its founder stopped coming to work following Xiaomi's rapid growth
- •Helped found OnePlus at age 24 and took on international markets
- •International revenue hit 200 million in a year versus 100 million in China
- •Takeaway: it's all about the product
Deciding to Build Nothing
Carl explains he didn't want to just integrate others' components and wanted to help define technology. After a short trip, he chose smartphones, raised a seed round, and picked the name Nothing.
- •Wanted to be part of building technology rather than integrating it
- •Travel break got boring after about 10 days
- •Chose smartphones as one of the biggest consumer products and the most important device
- •Hardware could distribute software and services
- •Raised 7 million seed in about eight weeks after dropping the deck
The Vision: Making Technology Serve People Again
Carl argues technology has always increased human capability but smartphones have broken that rule. He says Nothing was founded to restore optimism, starting with design as the fastest way to differentiate.
- •Technology historically empowers humans, like the wheel or the PC as a bicycle for the mind
- •Smartphones lead to doomscrolling and comparison
- •Tech companies seemed 'evil' around 2020
- •Design is the fastest differentiator since it needs no R&D
- •Based in the UK for creativity, with 'technical warmth' positioning
Earbuds and the Worst Factory in the World
After investors refused to back another smartphone startup, Nothing began with earbuds. The only factory willing to work with them botched the first batch, forcing engineers to take over the factory floor.
- •Investors burned by earlier smartphone startups wouldn't work with new ones
- •Only a desperate factory with no other customers would take them
- •80% of the first batch couldn't charge due to a faulty spring
- •Placed 15 engineers in apartments near the factory to supervise
- •Sold almost 600,000 earbuds
Near-Death Moments Building the Phone
Building a smartphone meant clearing many levels, and the hardest was sourcing a display IC chip after cash was already spent. Carl also describes fundraising stress and nightmares, broken by a weekend of partying with friends.
- •Google Android partnership was relatively easy
- •Samsung had no IC stock; Carl begged competitors for chips
- •Biggest lesson is to push through
- •Two months of investor pitching led to nightly nightmares
- •A party in Shanghai reset his mindset and funding followed
Marketing as Efficiency
Carl says he thinks about marketing purely in terms of efficiency, since small brands can't win by copying big brands' tactics. He uses Apple's Super Bowl ad as an example of a once-efficient tactic that no longer works.
- •Small brands must be far more efficient than big ones
- •Same tactics and 10% budget keep a small company small
- •Creativity matters when it drives efficiency
- •Apple's Super Bowl ad was efficient because it was first
- •Nothing looks for today's high-efficiency opportunities
Community as the Company's Future
Carl explains the vision of erasing the barrier between company and community, given that the internet has spread access to information worldwide. Nothing lets its community invest and builds products with them.
- •Over 40 years the internet gave global access to information
- •Aim to build the company together with smart, passionate people worldwide
- •Community members and employees are treated as the same
- •Community allowed to invest in the company from the beginning
Community Editions and Competing with Apple
Nothing handed design of the Phone (2a) Community Edition and CMF Phone (1) to its community, including colors, packaging and marketing, and released CAD files. Carl contrasts this with Apple's closed approach.
- •Community Edition projects tested the creativity of users
- •CMF Phone (1) has a removable back and screw-on accessories
- •3D files released publicly for 3D printing
- •Apple works in isolation while Nothing builds the future with users
- •Goal is making tech fun again
AI and the Future of Operating Systems
Carl sees AI bringing an operating system without apps, which resets the race for incumbents and newcomers. Nothing can't win the traditional smartphone race but could help shape the future of computing.
- •Future OS may have no apps, unlike Palm OS and Symbian eras
- •Companies with apps today would have to change too
- •Incumbents are ahead in scale but everyone starts over
- •Excited to shape the future of computing
Advice on Being a Founder
Carl cautions that startup life isn't a cool lifestyle, but says seeing people use your product is uniquely rewarding. He closes by saying he's a normal guy and others can do it too if passionate.
- •Don't start a startup just to look cool
- •Founding brings gray hair but he wouldn't trade it
- •Seeing strangers using the product is irreplaceable
- •Being unrecognized means the brand is outgrowing the founder
- •If he can figure it out, others can too

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