How to Be a More Confident Parent (Even When You Feel Lost)

Dr. Becky 0:00 There's a sentence parents say to each other like it's a warm blanket, "Nobody really knows what they're doing." And it's usually delivered with that kind of shrug, or it's delivered over coffee, or just kind of whispered in a group text after a rotten day. And without a doubt, it is meant to make parents feel better, and sometimes it definitely does, and sometimes it makes you look around and think, "But maybe some people do. And that mom at pickup, when that parent is dealing with that tantrum, like I like the way that parent handled it. And this other parent who's telling me how they dealt with their kid lying, hmm, I don't know if I would've done that, but I kinda like that, too." And then there's a bigger zoom out. If nobody knows what they're doing with the job that probably impacts our own life and the world in the biggest way, I don't know, does that maybe mean something else if we're all just winging it? And can we think about that question without going to the extreme and the opposite? The opposite extreme is, oh, someone has it all together and is always perfect. Is there anything in between that would be useful as a framework? Well, Myleik is here again to help me unpack this, 'cause I think it's really important, and I wanted to talk to her about it. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. I'm glad you're here.

Myleik Teele 1:32 My, my oldest just... We're at the cutest little pizza place by our house, and I'm by myself. I have the stroller. I have my, I have my tablet. I've got it. I've got all, everything I need. Screaming-

Dr. Becky 1:48 Mm

Myleik Teele 1:49 ... on the floor, threw the tablet on the ground. Every-

Dr. Becky 1:53 Threw it?

Myleik Teele 1:53 Threw it. Threw it.

Dr. Becky 1:56 The adaptability.

Myleik Teele 1:56 Hanging out of the stroller.

Dr. Becky 1:59 Uh-huh.

Myleik Teele 1:59 I'm trying to order a pizza.

Dr. Becky 2:01 Uh-huh.

Myleik Teele 2:01 Everybody's staring at me, and I'm just like, "WTF?"

Dr. Becky 2:07 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 2:08 WTF? How did I get here?

Dr. Becky 2:11 [laughs]

Myleik Teele 2:11 How did I get here? I mean, he's th- threw this expensive thing that he supposedly likes.

Dr. Becky 2:17 Right.

Myleik Teele 2:18 And he's on the floor, and he doesn't care.

Dr. Becky 2:20 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 2:21 And it was just, he, no matter what I did, seemed to do, it wasn't ending.

Dr. Becky 2:27 And what, just get real, like what feels natural in that moment? Like, what's going on in your head?

Myleik Teele 2:31 Snatched the tablet because-

Dr. Becky 2:32 Yeah

Myleik Teele 2:33 ... excuse me.

Dr. Becky 2:34 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 2:34 Next, it's like wanting to, like, put him back, and now I am on stage, and other, everybody's staring at me-

Dr. Becky 2:42 Yeah

Myleik Teele 2:42 ... and it's like, okay, I have to show everyone that I'm not okay with this.

Dr. Becky 2:47 I have to kind of prove it to all of them.

Myleik Teele 2:48 I have to kinda let everybody know that, hey-

Dr. Becky 2:51 In what way? Like, we get, we all get, like, a little-

Myleik Teele 2:53 You know, like you, you, you-

Dr. Becky 2:53 Yeah

Myleik Teele 2:54 ... you know, it's like I, my f- I'm huffing.

Dr. Becky 2:56 Uh-huh.

Myleik Teele 2:56 I'm like, you know, I'm frustrated. I'm moving things. You know, I'm picking everything up. Excuse me, you know.

Dr. Becky 3:02 Yep.

Myleik Teele 3:02 I'm gonna take him to the side, and I still need to order pizza, you know?

Dr. Becky 3:06 Right.

Myleik Teele 3:06 But I need to, like, have a moment with him-

Dr. Becky 3:08 Yep

Myleik Teele 3:08 ... so that everybody knows that, you know what? I got this. I don't-

Dr. Becky 3:10 I'm taking this seriously.

Myleik Teele 3:11 Yes, yes.

Dr. Becky 3:12 I'm not a pushover.

Myleik Teele 3:13 I'm not, and I, you know-

Dr. Becky 3:15 Mm-hmm

Myleik Teele 3:15 ... I don't want this to happen again.

Dr. Becky 3:17 So you end up getting home. You survive that moment, and I'm just thinking probably most natural is, something, I don't know, so- something's wrong with my kid. Like, uh-

Myleik Teele 3:23 Yes

Dr. Becky 3:24 ... bad kid, disrespectful kid, spoiled kid, ungrateful kid, sociopath kid? Which, which are the words that come out?

Myleik Teele 3:29 [laughs] All of them.

Dr. Becky 3:30 All of them.

Myleik Teele 3:31 You know, I just thought, like, first things first, this is, this will never end for me. This is going to happen every time I try to-

Dr. Becky 3:39 Mm

Myleik Teele 3:39 ... go somewhere. I'm nervous that every time I take him out and he's not happy, and I, and I thought I have, had all the things that-

Dr. Becky 3:48 Yeah

Myleik Teele 3:48 ... would help this situation hap- go well, this will happen for the rest of our lives. He's not going to be c- he's not going to get very far, because he's going to be doing this in school.

Dr. Becky 3:59 Yep.

Myleik Teele 3:59 And I- I just, I'm, I'm seeing out into the future. He's gonna be unemployed. He's gonna be living with me forever.

Dr. Becky 4:04 Ugh.

Myleik Teele 4:05 This is what I'm thinking.

Dr. Becky 4:05 Sorry about that.

Myleik Teele 4:06 Yeah. [laughs]

Dr. Becky 4:06 Sorry that that's happening. Um, it's not, but you know.

Myleik Teele 4:09 Right, it, it-

Dr. Becky 4:09 We're, we're already like, "All my friends are gonna think I'm a horrible parent because my 23-year-old lives with me," and you're like, I, I just-

Myleik Teele 4:14 And it all started at the pizza place on the floor when I-

Dr. Becky 4:17 Can't believe I started there

Myleik Teele 4:17 ... that's where it started. And had I, had I done it right then, we wouldn't be here.

Dr. Becky 4:23 And no one's, but no one knows what they're doing.

Myleik Teele 4:25 Right.

Dr. Becky 4:25 Right. As soon as I get out of my kid is gonna be like this forever mode-

Myleik Teele 4:30 Right

Dr. Becky 4:31 ... or, well, nobody knows what they're doing mode-

Myleik Teele 4:34 Right, that's it

Dr. Becky 4:34 ... I actually can be, and this is something I know you're, this muscle is strong for you. You can be curious.

Myleik Teele 4:40 Yes.

Dr. Becky 4:41 Right?

Myleik Teele 4:41 Which took time. Which took time. It was not something I feel like I could do easily-

Dr. Becky 4:46 Mm-hmm

Myleik Teele 4:46 ... because I was so busy trying to figure out what I did. You know, I'm, I'm alr- always thinking like, if something happens, like what did I do? It's like, did I not-

Dr. Becky 4:56 Mm

Myleik Teele 4:56 ... wake him up early enough? Did I give him the wrong food?

Dr. Becky 5:00 Mm.

Myleik Teele 5:01 You know, did I go too far? You know, was it, you know, did I-

Dr. Becky 5:05 Yeah

Myleik Teele 5:05 ... did he have the tablet too long? I'm thinking of-

Dr. Becky 5:07 Mm

Myleik Teele 5:07 ... all these other things that maybe I did versus getting curious and saying like, "Huh, what's going on?"

Dr. Becky 5:16 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 5:16 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 5:16 It, it is kind of-

Myleik Teele 5:17 I'm either, yeah-

Dr. Becky 5:18 That's it

Myleik Teele 5:18 ... blaming myself or figuring out, you know, or maybe it's him.

Dr. Becky 5:22 Right.

Myleik Teele 5:22 It's not me.

Dr. Becky 5:22 It's always someone's fault.

Myleik Teele 5:23 It's always someone's fault.

Dr. Becky 5:24 Your fault.

Myleik Teele 5:24 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Becky 5:26 I just wanna come out and say this. Nobody knows what they're doing all the time with parenting. Like, you know this about me, I think, like, when someone's like, "Parenting expert, Dr. Becky Kennedy," I'm like, "Stop calling me that."

Myleik Teele 5:34 [laughs]

Dr. Becky 5:35 And they're like, "Oh, did I get your name wrong?" And I was like, I just hate the word expert. I really do, because I, I really do feel like I'm someone who loves to learn.

Myleik Teele 5:44 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Becky 5:44 Like, I love learning. I'm like, "Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that." I find it exciting, and maybe it's a limited understanding, but I think experts are kind of at the end of their learning journey. Like, they've-

Myleik Teele 5:54 Oh

Dr. Becky 5:54 ... reached the top of the mountain, and-

Myleik Teele 5:56 Right

Dr. Becky 5:56 ... that feels very sad to me.

Myleik Teele 5:58 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 5:58 So I just wanna say that If one myth or one idea is, "Nobody knows what they're doing"-

Myleik Teele 6:05 Yeah

Dr. Becky 6:06 ... I think actually what's equally untrue is somebody always knows what they're doing.

Myleik Teele 6:10 Yes. Nobody knows what they're doing all the time.

Dr. Becky 6:14 Nobody, right?

Myleik Teele 6:15 But there are times when people, you know they know what they're doing. It's like, I- you've seen people, they're in the grocery store, there's someone with multiple children, someone's screaming, and it's just almost like they ki- they're kind of flawlessly moving things around, and they're, it's like-

Dr. Becky 6:28 Paint me a picture of that. Like, what's the moment? I'm curious about this, and I'm not trying to set you up for a certain answer, but I'm generally curious what you're gonna say.

Myleik Teele 6:35 Okay.

Dr. Becky 6:36 What's the moment in parenting, and you can make up a person, it doesn't have to be real, that you're like, "Wow, that chick, that dude knows what they're doing." Like, I'm impressed.

Myleik Teele 6:44 Yes. There, there's a story.

Dr. Becky 6:46 Okay.

Myleik Teele 6:46 I, there's this time that my son went to this one camp, and I was waiting behind a parent that a couple of the camp counselors came out to say, like, to tell on her son.

Dr. Becky 6:59 Mm.

Myleik Teele 6:59 They were like, I, you know, and I'm just sitting there, like, "Uh-oh," you know?

Dr. Becky 7:02 Right.

Myleik Teele 7:02 So they came out, and they, I was feel, you know. They came out, they were like, "Um, Mom, we need to talk to you. He did this and he did that," and, and on and on and on, and she, when I tell you my girl was cool and calm, she said, "Okay." Okay, so then her son came out. I'm still waiting, and I'm like, "Oh, she's gonna-

Dr. Becky 7:22 Oh, the hammer

Myleik Teele 7:22 ... yeah, yeah, she's... And they're standing there waiting for her to come down on him, and she was just like, "How was everything today?" She, okay? She was like, "Great. Good to see you." She, they stood there, everybody watched. I get m- so, and I kinda can hear her walking away on the stairs. I get my son and I see them in the like, um, the, they're getting, like, a smoothie, and I'm like, "I gotta, I gotta get the rest of this." I stand, we get in line, and she is not shaming her son. She didn't let those counselors knock her off her game. I was like, "She, she's going to handle this." I could tell that she was going to handle it, but she didn't need to erupt in the moment, prove anything to them.

Dr. Becky 8:10 Mm.

Myleik Teele 8:11 And I was like, "She's got it." I just, I felt like she's got this handled, and I was like, "She knows what she's doing."

Dr. Becky 8:17 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 8:18 "I'm in charge. I'm the boss. I got it."

Dr. Becky 8:21 Mm-hmm.

Myleik Teele 8:21 "I don't need to do anything right now for you."

Dr. Becky 8:25 Yep, I'm not proving-

Myleik Teele 8:27 Mm

Dr. Becky 8:27 ... my good parenting-

Myleik Teele 8:28 No

Dr. Becky 8:29 ... to you by being overzealous about something that I actually don't even think would be helpful in the moment.

Myleik Teele 8:34 Yes.

Dr. Becky 8:35 So good.

Myleik Teele 8:35 And they kind of just-

Dr. Becky 8:36 Mm-hmm

Myleik Teele 8:37 ... like, walked out, and then I could tell she, she, the way she was asking about his day was, she was trying to get to it.

Dr. Becky 8:44 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 8:44 But even the way she was going about getting to it was like, you know. So they told me, she never said that. She was just sorta like, "So how was it today, and what happened at, you know, swim?" You know, and I was like, "I, she's got it."

Dr. Becky 8:57 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 8:57 And I loved it. And not saying sorry to everyone else.

Dr. Becky 9:00 And not saying sorry to every- A- again, uh, again, this publicness.

Myleik Teele 9:03 Yes.

Dr. Becky 9:04 Right?

Myleik Teele 9:04 And just sort of saying it to their child-

Dr. Becky 9:07 Mm-hmm

Myleik Teele 9:07 ... sorry, versus apologizing to everyone for having a child, being a child.

Dr. Becky 9:12 Yeah. That's, that's exactly right.

Myleik Teele 9:14 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 9:14 You know, I think about a moment, I think one of my proudest moments as a parent, okay?

Myleik Teele 9:22 Okay.

Dr. Becky 9:22 Was, it was a while ago, but I just, the story is so visceral, I don't know why, where my youngest, I knew, totally ruined this puzzle that the four of us were working on.

Myleik Teele 9:34 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 9:34 Me, my husband, my older two kids were working on a puzzle. My son was young at the time, and we came back after a break, and, like, half of the puzzle pieces that we'd put together were, like, gone. We don't have a dog, okay?

Myleik Teele 9:46 Okay.

Dr. Becky 9:46 Like, and I don't really believe in, exactly, in ghosts, right?

Myleik Teele 9:49 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Becky 9:49 So I was like, "I know, I know what happened here." And I was like, "Hey, what'd you do with the puzzle pieces?"

Myleik Teele 9:53 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Becky 9:54 And he was just like, "I don't know what you're talking about."

Myleik Teele 9:57 Oh.

Dr. Becky 9:58 And something in the moment, I don't know, I just was able to drop down into, I prob- he's a kid who fashions himself to be very capable, so for him to not be able to participate in something the four of us are doing is really painful.

Myleik Teele 10:16 Okay.

Dr. Becky 10:17 And my guess is ruining the puzzle probably is trying to, like, ruin and erase that feeling.

Myleik Teele 10:21 Right. But my question to you is always-

Dr. Becky 10:24 Yeah

Myleik Teele 10:24 ... how do we get there?

Dr. Becky 10:27 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 10:27 Right? How do we get there? Because, I mean, I can think of my proudest moment, but I'm just-

Dr. Becky 10:33 Yeah

Myleik Teele 10:33 ... I know how often we, as parents, have these times where it's like, you know, who knows how much this puzzle was, or it was a gift from someone special.

Dr. Becky 10:41 Totally.

Myleik Teele 10:42 And it's so hard to get there.

Dr. Becky 10:46 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 10:46 How do you do it? Tell us.

Dr. Becky 10:47 So if we can first say, wait, there's something between nobody knows what they're doing, and people know what they're doing all the time. I'm just gonna try to live in between. Then probably the biggest thing to try to learn is decoding behavior.

Myleik Teele 11:03 Okay.

Dr. Becky 11:03 It's the, it's the f- what we do when we see a kid's behavior is we assume we know everything about them.

Myleik Teele 11:09 Right.

Dr. Becky 11:09 Which makes sense, because behavior is observable. We see it.

Myleik Teele 11:13 Right.

Dr. Becky 11:14 Trying to understand the feeling underneath, the struggle underneath, the wish underneath, the fear underneath, those things, forget not being visible, there's no blood test for them.

Myleik Teele 11:24 Right.

Dr. Becky 11:24 You're not like, "Oh, you were actually scared," so you have to wonder, you have to kind of use this most generous interpretation, and then you have to do something else, because when you do that, for example, my son really struggles when he doesn't feel capable.

Myleik Teele 11:42 Okay.

Dr. Becky 11:42 He was struggling to feel left out. I kinda know that about him. It's not about saying after, "Oh, so everything's fine."

Myleik Teele 11:49 Right.

Dr. Becky 11:49 He, no.

Myleik Teele 11:49 That's how he is and then-

Dr. Becky 11:50 That's just how he is.

Myleik Teele 11:51 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 11:51 That's another one.

Myleik Teele 11:52 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 11:52 It is what it is.

Myleik Teele 11:52 [laughs] Right.

Dr. Becky 11:53 It is. That's, we'll, we'll unpack that one.

Myleik Teele 11:54 Or, or that's just how they are.

Dr. Becky 11:55 That's just how they are.

Myleik Teele 11:56 Yep.

Dr. Becky 11:56 Right, maybe it's, it's kind of, right, I guess that and nobody really knows what they're doing all have this, it's really interesting My visual of it is the same as expert, even though it almost sounds the opposite.

Myleik Teele 12:07 Yes.

Dr. Becky 12:07 It's just a final dot.

Myleik Teele 12:08 Yep.

Dr. Becky 12:09 Experts know.

Myleik Teele 12:10 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Becky 12:10 Nobody knows what they’re doing. It is what it is. So when I try to understand behavior for my kid, for another adult, for another kid, it’s not about then putting the period there, "Okay, well, that’s how they are." No.

Myleik Teele 12:22 Right.

Dr. Becky 12:23 But I think, Myleik, what’s interesting to me is in so many other areas, even for children and their development, we implicitly get that we have to understand what’s underneath to help a kid. So for example, let’s say you have a kid who’s a tennis player.

Myleik Teele 12:41 Okay.

Dr. Becky 12:41 And they keep hitting the ball into the net. That’s not good for tennis, right? We know that.

Myleik Teele 12:46 Right.

Dr. Becky 12:46 The ball’s supposed to go over the net.

Myleik Teele 12:47 Over, right.

Dr. Becky 12:47 Okay. You could say over and over, "Stop hitting the ball into the net."

Myleik Teele 12:51 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Becky 12:51 "Stop hitting the ball into the net," because that’s observable-

Myleik Teele 12:54 Right

Dr. Becky 12:54 ... and nobody wants that.

Myleik Teele 12:55 Right.

Dr. Becky 12:55 But a good coach probably says, "I see the ball going into the net. I don’t know why exactly. Let me, um... Is it the grip?"

Myleik Teele 13:04 Mm.

Dr. Becky 13:05 "Is it their body position?" And then you actually might, "No, that’s all fine. Oh, it’s interesting. This kid feels so much pressure on themselves. They keep saying, 'I suck. I’m gonna lose.'" So I love this idea that when you see a problem on the surface, the behavior-

Myleik Teele 13:22 Mm-hmm

Dr. Becky 13:22 ... that’s valuable information.

Myleik Teele 13:24 Okay.

Dr. Becky 13:24 But it’s just a clue. It’s not the whole thing. The whole thing for the tennis player isn’t that the ball goes into the net. That is a clue to help me think as a coach, what’s actually the problem?

Myleik Teele 13:36 Mm. Okay.

Dr. Becky 13:37 And then maybe as a coach, I’m like, "It’s the grip." I would never say, "Oh, it’s the grip. Okay. N- okay, now, now I have to help them change the grip."

Myleik Teele 13:46 Right.

Dr. Becky 13:46 So my son, I think there is, like, a process, and the reason this is a practice is 'cause we have to practice this thought process-

Myleik Teele 13:52 Multiple times

Dr. Becky 13:53 ... a, a, a day, or, or at least when we lose it, we're like, "I'm gonna go back to it."

Myleik Teele 13:57 Right.

Dr. Becky 13:57 It's a practice. It's a muscle.

Myleik Teele 13:59 Yes.

Dr. Becky 13:59 And that is a skill of trying to understand what's happening for humans-

Myleik Teele 14:04 Right

Dr. Becky 14:05 ... underneath their behavior because we have to understand the true issue that's leading to the ball in the net, or in my son's case, the stealing of the puzzle pieces-

Myleik Teele 14:15 Right

Dr. Becky 14:15 ... or in your son's case, the throwing of the tablet.

Myleik Teele 14:17 [laughs]

Dr. Becky 14:17 Okay?

Myleik Teele 14:17 Right.

Dr. Becky 14:18 We have to understand those are problems, but they're actually just a symptom of the problem that I have to figure out, and when I get curious, I might say, "Okay, so my son likes to feel capable. Okay, so what can I do about it?" And I'll tell you what I did, 'cause that was a complicated one. For your son, okay, who knows?

Myleik Teele 14:39 Right.

Dr. Becky 14:40 We were waiting, and he wanted my attention.

Myleik Teele 14:42 Right.

Dr. Becky 14:42 And maybe I say, 'cause I start to get curious, "I wasn't really g- I was kind of distracted. I was on my phone." Or maybe I'm saying, "You know, when I go into a public space that's overwhelming, my kid gets overwhelmed. I, I'm probably just not gonna let him have a tablet in his hand next time." So maybe that's something I start changing.

Myleik Teele 14:59 Yes.

Dr. Becky 15:00 Right? But it actually, we can't come up with a helpful intervention if we don't get curious about what's actually happening under behavior. I'm not gonna be a good tennis coach if I don't try to figure out why my player is hitting the ball into the net.

Myleik Teele 15:19 Right.

Dr. Becky 15:19 And if s- and if you saw me figuring that out-

Myleik Teele 15:21 Yeah

Dr. Becky 15:21 ... here's the other thing, you would never say to me, "Becky, like, [laughs] you're a pretty permissive tennis coach."

Myleik Teele 15:27 Right.

Dr. Becky 15:27 Like, "Just tell him, tell her it's not acceptable."

Myleik Teele 15:30 Right.

Dr. Becky 15:31 "It's not acceptable to hit the ball into the net. Go to your room, and come back to the court when you can hit the ball over the net."

Myleik Teele 15:39 Over the net.

Dr. Becky 15:39 "Or else you're permitting bad tennis behavior."

Myleik Teele 15:41 Right.

Dr. Becky 15:41 Like, you would never-

Myleik Teele 15:42 Right.

Dr. Becky 15:42 You would say-

Myleik Teele 15:43 Right

Dr. Becky 15:43 ... "You look like a good coach."

Myleik Teele 15:45 You look, yes.

Dr. Becky 15:46 Right?

Myleik Teele 15:47 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 15:47 And so I think that it, there's other things, too, but the interesting thing is when we start to try to figure out what's really going on under behavior, we also start to apply that framework to ourselves.

Myleik Teele 15:59 That's it.

Dr. Becky 16:00 So, so tell, go off on that because I know your parenting journey has involved that, too.

Myleik Teele 16:04 Oh, my-

Dr. Becky 16:04 Mostly that. [laughs]

Myleik Teele 16:05 Yes, yes. No, I, I feel like parenting has made me a better person in so many ways-

Dr. Becky 16:12 Yeah

Myleik Teele 16:12 ... across the board, but if I can be curious about my kid, I can be curious about myself.

Dr. Becky 16:18 Mm-hmm.

Myleik Teele 16:18 And I feel like I have so much more sort of, like, self-compassion because I'm not just like, "Oh, I'm bad at that," you know, putting the period on, "Oh, I'm not a, I'm not good at this," or, "I'm, I'm bad at that." It's like, "Huh, why don't I do that," or, "Why a, do I maybe run late on this or-"

Dr. Becky 16:39 Yeah

Myleik Teele 16:39 ... "avoid that?" Versus just like, "Oh, I'm, I'm bad at replying to texts," or I'm, you know. It's like, "Huh."

Dr. Becky 16:45 Or talk to me about yelling.

Myleik Teele 16:47 Ugh.

Dr. Becky 16:47 Like, if you yell at your kid-

Myleik Teele 16:48 Mm-hmm

Dr. Becky 16:48 ... what's the level where your own curiosity, practicing the skill of curiosity? 'Cause the easiest thing is, "I'm, I'm a monster. I'm a monster. I yelled at my kid." But if you practice curiosity, I'm curious, what does that sound like inside your brain?

Myleik Teele 17:00 If I be- [laughs] I can tell, I now know when I'm going to yell.

Dr. Becky 17:06 Tell me.

Myleik Teele 17:08 When we go on vacation-

Dr. Becky 17:09 Mm

Myleik Teele 17:10 ... and it is, it is the first seven minutes in that hotel room, and the pool's outside, the bathing suit's in the, in the luggage. They are excited, but I can't find the room key.

Dr. Becky 17:27 W-

Myleik Teele 17:27 Where's my phone? My, my, my, my-

Dr. Becky 17:29 And I need to unpack. I'm like, "Don't you wanna unpack?" And they're like, "No."

Myleik Teele 17:34 And-

Dr. Becky 17:34 Ugh

Myleik Teele 17:34 ... I will, you know, I will, I, I will scream.

Dr. Becky 17:39 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 17:39 And even this one time, I feel like I, I took my kids by myself because my partner, their dad, takes, he's taken them twice on, on an airplane, and I was feeling like, "You know what? I can do this."

Dr. Becky 17:49 Mm-hmm.

Myleik Teele 17:50 And so we're in the airport, and I finally, we finally got to the hotel room, and I go, "I feel like I've been yelling at you guys all day."

Dr. Becky 17:58 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 17:58 And they go, "Not that bad, Mom." [laughs]

Dr. Becky 18:02 "You've been worse."

Myleik Teele 18:03 Y- [laughs]

Dr. Becky 18:05 [laughs] But here's what I know about you. Because it goes back to this idea, nobody knows what they’re doing. If nobody knows what they’re doing, then every time I yell at my kid, I’m either a monster or, well, it is what it is-

Myleik Teele 18:16 Yeah

Dr. Becky 18:16 ... because nobody knows what they’re doing.

Myleik Teele 18:17 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 18:17 If you can practice the skill in between nobody knows what they’re doing... Oh my goodness, I just figured something out, live. I love talking to you.

Myleik Teele 18:26 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 18:27 Do you know what is remarkably similar about nobody knows what they’re doing, and some people have it all figured out?

Myleik Teele 18:33 What?

Dr. Becky 18:33 Both are completely anti-curiosity.

Myleik Teele 18:36 They are.

Dr. Becky 18:36 If I know what I’m doing all the time, I’m never curious.

Myleik Teele 18:38 Never.

Dr. Becky 18:39 And if nobody knows what they’re doing-

Myleik Teele 18:40 Uh, there’s no need to be

Dr. Becky 18:41 ... I’m not curious.

Myleik Teele 18:42 No.

Dr. Becky 18:42 So actually, they’re remark- they are two sides of the same coin-

Myleik Teele 18:45 Right

Dr. Becky 18:45 ... because the coin actually has to do with the total lack of curiosity.

Myleik Teele 18:48 Correct.

Dr. Becky 18:49 What’s in between is actually just, can I be curious? Can I be curious about myself? Why am I yelling there? Because then if I can say, uh, it was actually really triggering when my kids were young. They were like, "I wanna go to the pool." I’m like, "I wanna unpack."

Myleik Teele 19:00 [laughs]

Dr. Becky 19:00 "Can’t you wait? I took you on this nice vacation." Like, ugh.

Myleik Teele 19:03 Right.

Dr. Becky 19:03 But if I can say, "Becky, I’m going on vacation tomorrow. Let’s get real."

Myleik Teele 19:07 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Becky 19:08 I’m probably gonna have the urge to scream at my kid. Instead of some people have it figured out, which would tell me I’m a horrible mom, or nobody knows what they’re doing, in which case I’m just gonna yell at them because I can’t do anything differently anyway, I actually wanna tell you what I do on vacation, because you and I are similar. Hey, when we get to the room, like, and my kids were younger, I used to say, "Can we make a couple predictions?" And we used to, like, make them, it wasn’t anything crazy. How many lamps are there gonna be in our rooms?

Myleik Teele 19:35 Oh.

Dr. Becky 19:35 What color’s the bed gonna be? I can’t even tell you what would happen. It was like a trick. They would have something exciting to do in the room-

Myleik Teele 19:45 Okay

Dr. Becky 19:45 ... instead of just saying, "Pool, pool, pool,"

Myleik Teele 19:49 [laughs]

Dr. Becky 19:49 While I kind of had, by the way, I- I’m not saying this with some 15-minute adventure.

Myleik Teele 19:55 Right.

Dr. Becky 19:55 But it could even be, I mean, you know, that, the, the demand to go to the pool when you get to the room is, like-

Myleik Teele 19:59 Is

Dr. Becky 19:59 ... a split second.

Myleik Teele 20:01 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 20:01 So giving you two minutes, and then we play around. Oh, okay, so you think there’s gonna be a green wall. You think this, and it was almost like a little game. Oh, I was right. You were wrong. What’s the next thing? And that idea only came up because I was able to be curious about, well-

Myleik Teele 20:20 Right

Dr. Becky 20:20 ... what, what’s really going on there? What do I need?

Myleik Teele 20:22 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 20:23 Right?

Myleik Teele 20:23 A little bit, we just came back from a trip, and what I did is I had them put their suits in their backpacks-

Dr. Becky 20:33 Hmm

Myleik Teele 20:34 ... so that now [laughs] you can struggle to get your clothes, because they’re still young, like, struggle, while they’re struggling to get their clothes off, and put them away, and try to get their suit on, I can at least get a breather-

Dr. Becky 20:47 Yes, yes

Myleik Teele 20:48 ... and find my own suit-

Dr. Becky 20:50 Yes

Myleik Teele 20:50 ... and just, like, get my bearings before they’re just like, "Mom, Mom, open the suitcase. Put my suit, put my swimsuit on. We gotta go." And so-

Dr. Becky 20:56 Yeah

Myleik Teele 20:57 ... now I was like, okay, I can slow this down some, and I didn’t, I didn't yell this time.

Dr. Becky 21:04 And, and-

Myleik Teele 21:04 But I-

Dr. Becky 21:05 But you worked to get there.

Myleik Teele 21:06 I did.

Dr. Becky 21:07 You did. You thought. You were curious. You made, then you kind of translated that understanding into, oh, so I can do this differently-

Myleik Teele 21:14 Yes

Dr. Becky 21:14 ... because I understand this differently.

Myleik Teele 21:16 Yes.

Dr. Becky 21:17 And then it wa- I don’t think it was a coincidence that you didn’t yell that one time.

Myleik Teele 21:20 That o- right, because I’m like, but you know, when you’re packing all the bags, you don’t think about it, but this-

Dr. Becky 21:25 Right

Myleik Teele 21:25 ... it’s like I finally figured it out. I don’t do well the first five-

Dr. Becky 21:29 Yeah

Myleik Teele 21:29 ... I don’t do well the first five minutes in the hotel room.

Dr. Becky 21:31 Right. Well, there’s too big of a mismatch. Nobody does well when there’s a mismatch between what you need and what your kid needs. Like, I think that’s why sleep at night is so hard.

Myleik Teele 21:40 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Becky 21:40 Our kids need five more minutes with us, and we need no more minutes with them.

Myleik Teele 21:44 Right. [laughs]

Dr. Becky 21:44 So [laughs]

Myleik Teele 21:45 No more minutes

Dr. Becky 21:45 ... it’s just a gap.

Myleik Teele 21:46 Yes.

Dr. Becky 21:47 You know?

Myleik Teele 21:47 Yes.

Dr. Becky 21:48 And so, and so when you’re aware of that, then you can action on it-

Myleik Teele 21:53 Yeah

Dr. Becky 21:53 ... a little bit and, and at least close the gap a little bit.

Myleik Teele 21:56 A little bit.

Dr. Becky 21:56 A little.

Myleik Teele 21:56 Yeah, and it’s just n- nothing, the trip's not like, oh, we went and-

Dr. Becky 22:01 Yeah

Myleik Teele 22:01 ... you know, I’m not reporting back on my blog, like, "We took the kids on the trip, and every moment was perfect," you know? It was just like-

Dr. Becky 22:08 Yeah

Myleik Teele 22:08 ... okay, I’ve done this enough to know where I [laughs] start to, to scream, so I’m gonna do this.

Dr. Becky 22:15 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 22:15 And then, you know, I find some other, the, there’s something else that-

Dr. Becky 22:18 Now, can I tell you something?

Myleik Teele 22:19 ... is an issue.

Dr. Becky 22:19 It earns you a sentence. I’m a parent who knows what I’m doing the first couple minutes of checking into a hotel room. No, I mean it. Like, I am. It doesn’t mean I’m not gonna yell sometimes.

Myleik Teele 22:30 Right.

Dr. Becky 22:30 Th- those two things are independent sometimes.

Myleik Teele 22:32 Right.

Dr. Becky 22:32 But I- I thought about it. I kind of understand maybe what’s going on.

Myleik Teele 22:36 Yep.

Dr. Becky 22:36 And I am now a parent who does know what I’m doing when I’m going to travel. I do know-

Myleik Teele 22:43 Yes

Dr. Becky 22:44 ... how to handle a public meltdown. I do know, I’m not gonna action every time, what to do if the teacher or counselor tells me something my kid did that was bad.

Myleik Teele 22:53 Yes.

Dr. Becky 22:54 Like, you’ve earned-

Myleik Teele 22:54 Yes

Dr. Becky 22:54 ... those-

Myleik Teele 22:55 I-

Dr. Becky 22:55 ... moments and notches

Myleik Teele 22:56 ... feel like I’ve had a lot-

Dr. Becky 22:57 Yes

Myleik Teele 22:57 ... of practice.

Dr. Becky 22:58 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 22:59 I’ve had a lot of practice. I was thinking of my sort of proudest moment-

Dr. Becky 23:03 Mm

Myleik Teele 23:03 ... and because I told you about one of my worst, but my proudest-

Dr. Becky 23:06 Yeah

Myleik Teele 23:06 ... is it was, like, um, the day that you meet the teacher, and my son, "At what time is it?" I told him the time, and I just didn’t realize how many things he’s clocking at all times.

Dr. Becky 23:17 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 23:18 And so we get there. I apparently told him there wouldn’t be a line. I didn’t think there would be a line. We get there. There’s a line. We stand in the line, and there’s, I mean, this is our school. These are, these are, I’m gonna be with these parents for a long time.

Dr. Becky 23:31 Nervous. [laughs]

Myleik Teele 23:32 And he yelled at me and was like, "You said there wouldn’t be a line," and he smacks me in the back of my leg.

Dr. Becky 23:41 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 23:41 And everyone's looking, and I'm like-

Dr. Becky 23:45 What did you do?

Myleik Teele 23:46 ... I was sturdy because I have practice.

Dr. Becky 23:49 Mm-hmm.

Myleik Teele 23:49 And I just, you know what? I said, "No thank you. Do not do that," and we just kind of, like, walked on our way, but it wasn't for any, it wasn't for everyone. It's not like, "Oh, so it's okay if he hits you?" It is not okay if he hits me. It is not okay if he hits me.

Dr. Becky 24:06 But no big lecture? Was it-

Myleik Teele 24:07 But no. This is not the time for that. This is not the time, and I know, I know him well enough to know that Now, because I wrote about this in the community of, like, all the things that he expects.

Dr. Becky 24:20 Yes.

Myleik Teele 24:21 So I lied to him because he asked me, because this was important to him, and I didn't... I just gave him an answer because-

Dr. Becky 24:30 Yes, yeah

Myleik Teele 24:31 ... yeah, no, line, I don't know. Yeah.

Dr. Becky 24:32 Right.

Myleik Teele 24:32 Sure, you know. [laughs] I just gave him an answer because-

Dr. Becky 24:35 Yeah

Myleik Teele 24:36 ... I, because it doesn't matter, you know?

Dr. Becky 24:37 Right.

Myleik Teele 24:38 It didn't matter to me, but it mattered to him, and I wasn't hon- He didn't feel like I was honest, and he was upset. It is not okay to hit me, but I don't need to handle all of this here, because I, I do have some element of curiosity, and I'm like, I, in my mind, I was like, "He asked me."

Dr. Becky 24:56 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 24:57 "And I glossed over the answer because I-"

Dr. Becky 24:58 Yeah

Myleik Teele 24:58 ... "didn't think it mattered," but it mattered a lot to him.

Dr. Becky 25:02 And you have such a deep understanding of your son and, like you say, he's a kid who clocks everything, who thinks about everything. So there's this term in psychology, violation of expectations, right?

Myleik Teele 25:11 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Becky 25:12 Um, and violation of expectations is hard at any age. It's hard for me and you, too.

Myleik Teele 25:17 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 25:17 Right? If I wasn't here when you showed up today, like, if I violated those expectations, you'd be annoyed, right?

Myleik Teele 25:22 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 25:22 Um, but deeply feeling kids, they're always clocking things.

Myleik Teele 25:26 Mm.

Dr. Becky 25:26 So they have all these expectations, especially when they're younger, to try to feel in control of their world-

Myleik Teele 25:31 Mm

Dr. Becky 25:31 ... that we don't know. Or a simple question like, "Do you think there's gonna be a line?" You're like, "I don't know." I'm, like, packing a water bottle, like-

Myleik Teele 25:39 Right

Dr. Becky 25:39 ... sure, no, whatever.

Myleik Teele 25:39 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 25:40 That they're trying to form their worldview of something that makes them a little nervous, and then because they have so many things they clock, they have more expectations, and then they probably have, when they're younger, a few more violations-

Myleik Teele 25:51 Yes

Dr. Becky 25:51 ... which leads to those moments. But then what you did with all of that in that moment, and there's such a pattern here. First of all, you were so sturdy.

Myleik Teele 25:58 Yes.

Dr. Becky 25:58 Like, I heard it in your voice.

Myleik Teele 26:00 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Becky 26:00 It wasn't like, "Stop hitting me."

Myleik Teele 26:02 No.

Dr. Becky 26:03 No. Say it again in the voice-

Myleik Teele 26:04 Yeah, right

Dr. Becky 26:04 ... he probably said it.

Myleik Teele 26:05 I'm like, "No thank you."

Dr. Becky 26:07 Right.

Myleik Teele 26:08 "You do not hit me." And that was it, and we kind of just kinda walked to the line. You know, walked-

Dr. Becky 26:15 That was it.

Myleik Teele 26:15 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 26:15 That was it. I find so much of my, again, we're kind of talking about the moments you end up feeling really proud, like, "I did handle that well. I did know what to do," are the hard moments.

Myleik Teele 26:28 Yes.

Dr. Becky 26:28 And so many of them involve doing so much less-

Myleik Teele 26:32 Yes

Dr. Becky 26:33 ... in the moment-

Myleik Teele 26:34 Right

Dr. Becky 26:34 ... because you don't have to prove every single thing about your parenting or who you are-

Myleik Teele 26:39 Right

Dr. Becky 26:40 ... to yourself, to your kid, or to-

Myleik Teele 26:42 Everyone else

Dr. Becky 26:42 ... the audience.

Myleik Teele 26:42 Right. Right, like, I could, you know, I would've, all the other ways, like pulling him out of line, "We're not going inside right now. I'm gonna take you back to the car," like all of these things.

Dr. Becky 26:52 Mm.

Myleik Teele 26:52 And I just remember, I mean, I wasn't expecting, when he was upset, I just didn't expect for him to hit me in public in front of other people.

Dr. Becky 27:00 Yeah, and wait, just, can we? I just wanna-

Myleik Teele 27:02 [laughs]

Dr. Becky 27:02 ... bring it home with this, because you told me something before we were recording, that your son said something recently around expectation that now, probably because of how many times you've said it to him-

Myleik Teele 27:13 Yes

Dr. Becky 27:13 ... he has started to say, instead of getting upset.

Myleik Teele 27:16 He has. He, every, it's probably, like, 10 times a day-

Dr. Becky 27:20 Yeah

Myleik Teele 27:21 ... he's been saying, "Oh, I wasn't expecting that." You know, it's like you'll hand him his glass of water, and he'll be like, "Oh, I wasn't expecting that." What? What? You asked for water. What-

Dr. Becky 27:31 Yeah

Myleik Teele 27:31 ... what were you expecting? But I just realize he has all of these expectations, and now that he's not exploding as much, he's able to say-

Dr. Becky 27:42 Mm

Myleik Teele 27:42 ... "Oh, I wasn't expecting that. I wasn't expecting that." It's so, like, he'll open the pizza box. He wasn't expecting that.

Dr. Becky 27:49 But that would've been-

Myleik Teele 27:50 Oh, you know, he-

Dr. Becky 27:51 ... meltdown.

Myleik Teele 27:52 Meltdown.

Dr. Becky 27:53 Like the pepperoni, like you get-

Myleik Teele 27:54 He opens the box

Dr. Becky 27:54 ... you can get half pepperoni.

Myleik Teele 27:56 Yes.

Dr. Becky 27:56 And on one piece of the plain, if they like plain-

Myleik Teele 28:00 Oh

Dr. Becky 28:00 ... there's a tiny piece of pepperoni.

Myleik Teele 28:01 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 28:01 Meanwhile, you're like, "It doesn't matter."

Myleik Teele 28:03 Right.

Dr. Becky 28:03 "Don't have that one. You can have..." But your kid will have a full-blown meltdown, and it's interesting. It's such practice.

Myleik Teele 28:08 Yes.

Dr. Becky 28:09 You never get it perfect, but that is one of my favorite lines. "Oh, you weren't expecting a line. You weren't expecting pepperoni."

Myleik Teele 28:15 Yes.

Dr. Becky 28:15 "You weren't expecting the crunchy apple to be so crunchy." Like, we kind of have to say it a little bit like, "I can't believe I'm saying this."

Myleik Teele 28:20 Right.

Dr. Becky 28:21 But then you have this moment-

Myleik Teele 28:22 Mm-hmm

Dr. Becky 28:22 ... where your kid shows up to school the next year-

Myleik Teele 28:25 Mm-hmm

Dr. Becky 28:26 ... and forget, now they think there's, uh, gonna be a line, but what they don't know is that, I don't know, there's a food display, or there's music, and they're-

Myleik Teele 28:35 Mm

Dr. Becky 28:35 ... a little overwhelmed, and they look at you. Instead of that meltdown the last year, and they just say, "I wasn't expecting music." And I feel like in that moment-

Myleik Teele 28:42 Oh

Dr. Becky 28:42 ... I'm like, I know that that didn't happen naturally. Uh, that was years-

Myleik Teele 28:48 Years

Dr. Becky 28:49 ... sometimes-

Myleik Teele 28:49 Yes

Dr. Becky 28:49 ... of my practice, showing up 20% of the time, 50% of the time, maybe the best it gets is 70% of the time.

Myleik Teele 28:56 Right.

Dr. Becky 28:56 And then all of a sudden it shows up in your kid.

Myleik Teele 29:00 It's, my mind was blown because I, he said it, like, maybe three times within, like, 15 minutes-

Dr. Becky 29:05 Oh, yeah

Myleik Teele 29:05 ... and I was like, wow, wow.

Dr. Becky 29:08 Yeah.

Myleik Teele 29:08 Okay, you're able to handle more. You, you now have some language. I wasn't expecting that, and I don't even think I realized I had been saying it to him, because you, I'm not saying it all the time.

Dr. Becky 29:19 No.

Myleik Teele 29:20 But I'm saying it, I'm clearly saying it sometimes.

Dr. Becky 29:22 Yes.

Myleik Teele 29:23 And now he's able to just not a- not explode because he's just like, like you said, "I wasn't expecting the red apple to be red."

Dr. Becky 29:30 Right, exactly.

Myleik Teele 29:31 [laughs]

Dr. Becky 29:31 And just to bring this arc, when we're willing to be curious about the things that are hard, and learn how to show up in a way that is never perfect, but feels better some of the time, we end up showing up and sharing language with our kid that you then, years later-

Myleik Teele 29:49 Years

Dr. Becky 29:49 ... hear them say to themselves, or I have heard my deeply feeling kid say to her brother when he was upset about something happening, "You weren't expecting that."

Myleik Teele 30:04 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 30:04 That's the worst, and I, I, I, you know, I'm barely at a loss for words.

Myleik Teele 30:10 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Becky 30:10 That is something, I'm like, ugh.

Myleik Teele 30:13 Yes.

Dr. Becky 30:14 It's just the best feeling.

Myleik Teele 30:15 The best feeling.

Dr. Becky 30:17 So we started with this question: Nobody really knows what they're doing, and I think we got to something really powerful, and I think we have an update to it, and I'm gonna hand it to Myleik to give us that update.

Myleik Teele 30:27 Yes. The update to nobody knows what they're doing is nobody knows what they're doing all of the time. Can we tack that on the back of nobody knows what they're doing? Let's hold ourselves accountable.

Dr. Becky 30:40 Love that.

Myleik Teele 30:40 Yeah.

Dr. Becky 30:41 The other thing I'm realizing, and I wanna make sure to hold myself accountable to, is I never got to finish the story here about how I showed up for my son when he lied to my face about ruining our family puzzle. And so I'm gonna write it up because it's a good story, and I wanna share it with you, and it's gonna be on the Good Inside blog. So you can just go to show notes, um, to follow the link, um, to see that part through. Now, let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground, and place a hand on your heart, and let's remind ourselves even as we struggle on the outside, [gentle music] we remain good inside. I'm excited to see you next week. [outro music]