EVERY SPOKEN WORD
25 min read · 5,171 words- 0:00 – 0:00
Intro
- BEDr. Becky
[upbeat music]
- 0:00 – 1:58
Why people-pleasing feels so hard (and so familiar)
- BEDr. Becky
Hi, I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. I'm a clinical psychologist and mom of three on a mission to rethink the way we raise our children. I love translating deep thoughts about parenting into practical, actionable strategies that you can use in your home right away. One of my core beliefs is that we are all doing the best we can with the resources we have available to us in that moment. So even as we struggle, and even as we are having a hard time on the outside, we remain good inside. Hello, people pleasers. Hello, recovering people pleasers. Hello, anybody who's curious about their people-pleasing part. This episode is for you. Before we fully dive in together, I want to read you a DM I received from someone who was debating leaving a voicemail for this episode. It kind of says it all. "Dr. Becky, oh, the irony. I'm over here racking my brain, trying to think of a good question for your People Pleaser podcast episode. I don't wanna let you down by not accepting the assignment. I know that if I don't leave a voicemail, you'll be fine. I can say no to this request, but here I am, going through the cycle that has been hardwired into me since birth." I think so many of us know that cycle. So with all that in mind, let's jump in. [gentle music] [phone ringing] Let's hear from our first caller, Alyssa.
- 1:58 – 3:47
Caller Alyssa: losing your nerve when it’s time to set a boundary
- SPSpeaker
Hi, Dr. Becky. This is Alyssa calling in from Bethesda, Maryland, where my two-year-old daughter is sleeping upstairs. And I'm calling about your request for people pleaser stories. And oh my goodness, I am a people pleaser. A people pleaser's people pleaser, I suppose. I have such a hard time holding boundaries on just about anything, whether it's holding time at work to be able to actually get my work done and not respond to somebody else's urgent need, or taking care of things between my spouse and my parents and my kid, and even being able to say that it's okay to take time for me. And I was so struck when I saw your Instagram story, and, um, felt seen, and just wanted to reach out and share, 'cause I know I'm not alone here. And I think my, my biggest question is I tend to... Like I'll, I'll, I'll role play a scenario, and I'll get ready to have a tough conversation. I'll get in the room, and I just won't be able to do it. I'll lose my nerve and won't be able to hold the boundary. And I wanna know how I build that muscle to actually be able to know that I am worth it, that I am worth it, and worthy of setting boundaries and protecting my time and having things that I want for me. Um, thank you for everything you do. Thank you for holding all of us so close in your heart.
- BEDr. Becky
Hi, Alyssa. Thank you so much for calling in. Just the fact that you recognize this people-pleasing part in yourself, you then thought, "Ooh, I would like to work on it. I'm going to voice my thoughts in a voicemail," that says so much already about your willingness to take up space, and that's a huge thing for us recovering people pleasers. You are definitely not alone. You said it. I'll validate it. We receive so many voicemails on this topic,
- 3:47 – 4:48
Where people-pleasing patterns come from: the “good girl” training
- BEDr. Becky
so know that you're surrounded by so many other people working on this exact same thing. All right, first things first. We have to understand how people-pleasing tendencies began if we have any hope of shifting them. The reason we go back to our past isn't just to kind of wax poetic about it. It's because our past lives on in our present. So many of us were raised to be good girls. What's wrong with being a good girl? That sounds fine. Well, here's the thing. Being a good girl, it's kind of like a code. What is it code for? Good girls learn to be more oriented to what others want of them than to what they want for themselves. They learn to gaze out first. "What's gonna make people happy? What's gonna keep this relationship peaceful?" As opposed to first gazing in, "What do I want? What's my body saying? What would it be like to prioritize
- 4:48 – 5:49
Rewiring the reflex: the London street-crossing analogy
- BEDr. Becky
that?" It's a huge shift then to think about changing the initial direction of our gaze, 'cause that's what we're really doing if we're talking about shifting these people-pleasing patterns. We're talking about gazing in before we gaze out. Now, here's another way to think about this and why this change is actually so hard, right? You mentioned you're from Bethesda. Well, imagine you move to London. One of the things we know you'd have to change is the direction of your first gaze of when you are crossing the street. You were brought up to first look left. That was critical to your safety. Now you move to London, and you're trying to essentially rewire your body to first gaze right, because gazing left is no longer important to your safety. Even though logically we know that, I don't think any of us would think that as soon as you started living in London, you'd immediately look right. No, it's hard to rewire the things that were put in place to protect us. That's
- 5:49 – 6:49
You are not a people pleaser—you have a people-pleasing part
- BEDr. Becky
exactly the journey we're gonna be on together throughout this episode. A couple steps to take this framework and put it into action. Number one, we have to get to know our That people-pleasing part of us. Even that language matters. You, Alyssa, you have a people-pleasing part. People-pleasing isn't all of you. You are not a people pleaser. No, you are not a people pleaser. You are Alyssa, and you have a people-pleasing part. And like so many of us with people-pleasing parts, sometimes that people-pleasing part, if you picture like a boardroom, it gets out of its seat, and it comes to your seat, the CEO seat, and kind of takes over, probably because that used to be adaptive. It must have been adaptive for that people-pleasing part of you to take over and dictate what you did. Why was that adaptive? Well, going back to that good girl idea, it often got us praise, got us the love and attention to just, quote, "make things easier," which
- 6:49 – 9:02
The tennis court + glass wall: separating your needs from others’ feelings
- BEDr. Becky
really means don't be so in touch with your wants and desires, and instead attune to the wants and desires of other people. We have to appreciate that part. We have to appreciate that part and get to know it before it's willing to kind of sit in its seat and not take over the whole system. Step two, the visual of a tennis court. Okay? I promise you no athletic ability required. Just look at yourself on one side of a tennis court, maybe behind the baseline. Then gaze toward the net, but instead of it being a net, imagine a glass wall, right? So you can definitely see through it, but there's a barrier. And then there's the other side of the tennis court. Who's on the other side of the tennis court? Whoever you're in a relationship with. Let's go through an example and use this visual. Your friend says, "Can you pick up my son from school today and drop him off on your way home?" Okay, request. And you're thinking, because now you're gazing in, "I know I really can't do that today. I told myself I'd go to the grocery store. I have a lot of errands. I really can't add that extra time." If we're gazing out, we're thinking, "Oh, she really wants me to do it." Take a deep breath, gaze in, go back to that tennis court. Your friend is on one side, you're on the other side. This is so important. We have to notice whose wants and feelings are whose. So let's go through this. On my side of the tennis court is me. I want to go right from school pickup with my kid and then home. I'm allowed to want that. My friend wants me to pick up her kid. That's on her side. She's allowed to want that. Her side might be her disappointment. She might be disappointed. She might be worried, "Well, who can get my son?" Okay, wait, I can care about my friend on her side without taking care of all of her experiences by essentially making them mine. The visual of the tennis court is so important for recovering people pleasers because it really gives us that separation. What is someone else's, and what is mine? [gentle music] [phone ringing] And now our second caller, Hannah.
- SPSpeaker
[phone ringing]
- 9:02 – 10:47
Caller Hannah: when ‘no’ triggers backlash—how do you handle disappointment?
- SPSpeaker
Hi, Dr. Becky. My name is Hannah. I have a deeply feeling kid that's four point five years old. Um, I'm calling in from Berkeley, California, and I am absolutely a recovering people pleaser. Um, have been in therapy for many years, um, talking about this. Um, I was basically trained as a child to always say yes for fear of being yelled at or for fear of disappointing my own parents. And the question that I have for you is how to handle disappointment and frustration on the other side when you set a boundary or when you say no or when you put yourself first. So I've been practicing just, like, that first step of saying no, um, to someone and putting my own priorities above theirs, um, especially when something is not in alignment. Um, but what happens is often I'm met with resistance or, um, a frustrated response or escalation, um, from someone on the other side who's disappointed in me, um, especially, uh, people in my family or immediate friend group who are really used to me saying yes and really used to me kind of being that, like, support person that's always there for them. And also how to instill this in my, in my kid, um, because I'm often setting boundaries with them. I'm also often working on not always just saying yes to my daughter, um, whenever she wants something and, and just kind of like, uh, working on setting her own boundaries or setting boundaries for her and then sticking with them and not, like, rolling over. So when she gets escalated, um, how to stay calm and, yeah, how to just practice that with also the, um, grown-ups in my life.
- 10:47 – 12:49
The truth about prioritizing yourself: someone else may be disappointed
- BEDr. Becky
Hi, Hannah. Another kind of voicemail that just resonates so deeply, and it makes me think about something that I truly wish I was taught in school earlier, and I, I feel like this is a life lesson that needs to be taught, I don't even wanna say in high school, like starting in elementary school. Prioritizing ourselves almost always goes hand-in-hand with someone else feeling disappointed or annoyed or inconvenienced. There, I said it. There's some, like, magical scenario I think we dream up where we think, "Okay, I'm going to say no here. I'm gonna say no to my boss," or, "I'm gonna ask my partner to do something with the kids I don't usually ask, and there's gonna be rainbows and butterflies." Like, "It's just gonna be an amazing moment, and everyone's gonna celebrate me standing up for myself." It just doesn't happen, and we play all these games with ourselves like, "Well, how can I ask in a way that, you know, they won't be mad at me?" Or, "How can I ask in a way that they won't feel like it's that big of a deal?" As opposed to something that's tricky in some ways but much simpler in other ways. Two things are true: I'm allowed to ask for what I need. Other people are allowed to feel whatever they feel about it, and we can go from there. I don't need to control their reaction to my asking for my need to be met. And actually, if I build tolerance for someone's response of disappointment or someone's, "Oh, I guess I could do that," if I build tolerance for that, I'm gonna be able to get many more things that I want for myself. Wow, that is so important. We can't control how other people react to our speaking up for our wants and needs. Now, we can ask for our wants and needs to be met in many different ways. Certainly, some have a greater likelihood of being met with cooperation. Probably,
- 12:49 – 16:53
Disappointment turns into guilt: ‘give the feeling back to its owner’
- BEDr. Becky
they have a greater likelihood of just being in line with our own value system of how we like to speak to other people we care about. But we can't create situations where other people pat us on the back or other people feel no impact to our asking for our needs to be met. Here's an example. Uh, your in-laws live nearby, and they often come by for a visit, and it's new for you to say no, right? 'Cause you often think, "Oh, I guess it's just not a big deal," and they, you know, are driving from far away, and it's only a short time. Meanwhile, it never goes the way you want it to. They always stay later. You get annoyed. You end up yelling at a kid or at a partner because you have this built-up resentment for not having set a boundary. Anyway, this is all coming together for you. You're thinking, "Oh, here I am listening to this recovering people pleasers voicemail and podcast, and I'm gonna do things differently." Great. Your in-laws call and say something like, "Hey, we're only six minutes away. We're gonna stop by." Ooh, you get your composure, and you say something like this, "Ooh, we're not available for a visit today." Maybe even get, "Oh, why? W- what are you doing?" You say, "Oh, we need some quiet time as a family. We're not available to have any visitors." That's your boundary. I don't know anyone who has in-laws who's going to say, "Wow, I'm really proud of you for standing up for what you need. Thank you so much for letting me know." It's just not what happens, right? What often happens is this, "Oh, well, I was... I mean, I was planning on coming by to see the grandkids, and you know, I live, I live a little bit far away. I'm right there." Okay, deep breath. I wanna go back to that tennis court that we just talked about, right? So Hannah, you're on one side of the tennis court, and your in-laws are on the other, and this is something really interesting to note. If you identify as having a strong people-pleasing part, this can happen a lot. Someone on the other side of the court is disappointed. An in-law, they're disappointed. They wanted to see their grandkids. I get it. Okay, they're disappointed. This is what can happen. Their disappointment somehow comes out of their body, it travels through that glass wall, it goes to your side of the court, and it enters your body, not as disappointment. It somehow transforms when it enters into your guilt. Their disappointment, which is a feeling in their body on their side of the tennis court, somehow explodes out of their body and now is kind of floating. And something happens where you, right, or someone on your side says, "Oh, wait, I can open up. I can take that into my body," and it transfers as my guilt. Now, I have the guilt instead of them having the disappointment, and then I think, "Okay, I'll let them over to get rid of my guilt." When we do that, we build up resentment and rage. It doesn't work for anyone. But over and over, this can happen. So I want you to do this exercise with me, and actually do this. I want you to give that feeling back to its owner. This is not an act of aggression. This is actually an act of maintaining boundaries. That wasn't your feeling in the first place. You acted in alignment with your values. That's not your guilt. Guilt is when we act out of alignment with your values, when you think, "Oh, I, I ended up yelling at someone at the grocery store, and I feel really guilty 'cause I don't like to do that, and I'm gonna go apologize." Okay. You said no. You didn't wanna have anyone over. You wanted to maintain the boundary. That's not guilt. That is someone else's disappointment. It's just that so many of us, because we gaze out, have developed this muscle of taking other people's disappointment and kinda saying, "Oh, no, no, no, don't worry. I can take that on, turn it into my guilt, solve my guilt, and move on with you." Except it doesn't work, and we gotta give it back. So I, in my own life, sometimes I really will, and I don't know if you can see me right now, right? You probably can't. But imagine me sitting with my hands out and really doing a push motion. Push, like actually push that back. Really watch that feeling go back over through that glass wall,
- 16:53 – 18:38
Boundaries plus empathy: staying kind without surrendering
- BEDr. Becky
and give that back to your mother-in-law. And here's where boundaries and empathy really go hand in hand as we're working on that people-pleasing part of us not taking over. The boundary is no, right? You already said it. We're not available for a visit today. Then you hear this from your in-law. Remember, their disappointment, not your guilt. "Oh, I was planning to come. I'm so close. I haven't seen the grandkids in however long." Oh, okay, I pushed it back. How do I use empathy? Now I can use empathy. Listen to this. "Oh, you didn't expect me to say no. I get it. It's really disappointing." I'm not being facetious. I'm actually being completely honest. I would feel disappointed. "Oh, I hear you. You really wanted to see the kids today. You kinda drove a little bit out of your way. I hear that's really annoying. I legitimately understand that." Now that I've given the feeling back to its owner, I can empathize with it. We can't empathize with feelings that we merge into. There's nothing to empathize with. We've just accepted that feeling into our body. You can only empathize with someone when you're a separate human being. That boundary starts that process. You give the feeling back to that owner on the other side of the tennis court. Now you can actually show up with empathy because you can care about someone's disappointment once you haven't turned it into your guilt. Now, you had a multi-layer question also about how we can help our kids set boundaries and not have their people pleasing parts take over. Well, keep listening. I'm going to get to that in the next section. [on-hold music] [phone ringing] And now our final caller, Sheree.
- 18:38 – 21:07
Caller Sheree: how not to raise kids who become people pleasers
- SPSpeaker
Hi, my name is Sheree. I have five children, ages 12, 10, six, four, and a newborn. Uh, we live in Austin, Texas. And my question is about how do we make sure that as parents we do not create people pleasers? What might I be doing in raising my children that could be causing them to be a people pleaser because they're trying to please me?
- BEDr. Becky
Hi, Sheree. Thank you for this really thoughtful question. I love that you're thinking kind of very proactively, right? Like, how can I do things today that set my kid up to honor their own boundaries, be in touch with what they need? So, okay, a couple ideas. Let's teach our kids to first notice who they are and what's going on for them before they notice their impact on others. Focus on what's going on for me, what's going on inside of me, who am I, before they focus on their impact on others. Now, let me, let me say something before we go further, 'cause I already hear my own reaction. It sounds like you're gonna create a generation of, like, really self-centered kids, right? Are you saying that kids shouldn't notice when they hurt other people's feelings? Like, I hear these sudden questions in my head, so I'm sure they're coming up for you, too. No. No, I have no interest in creating a generation of selfish, uh, kids. That's definitely not, you know, high up on my list of goals. There's just a critical order of operations. That's what I think. I hope my kids, and all of your kids, have a ton of empathy. I hope that they care a lot about the people around them, and that they're generous. And actually, we know, going back to that idea that kids are good inside, that we don't have to train kids to be that way. Actually, those things are inside them, and just sometimes things get in the way. What can get in the way? Being really overwhelmed by your own feelings that are so big that they crowd out things like empathy and generosity. What can get in the way? Feeling ashamed, feeling bad about yourself, feeling scared. Scared of what? Often of the loss of attachment, right? Kind of the fear of abandonment, and therefore aloneness. So why does this order of operations really matter? We have to first help kids understand themselves
- 21:07 – 23:10
Preserving access to desire: naming wants without granting them
- BEDr. Becky
so they can feel safe, so they can be grounded. It's only from that safe, grounded place that kids can interact with others in an authentic way that shows generosity and connectedness, right? So we lay the groundwork for kids understanding themselves. That then allows kids to develop in all the ways we want them to. A few concrete ideas. Number one, I think about this term a lot, preserving access to desire. I know, that feels almost, like, intellectual, so [laughs] let's break that down. I hear myself say that. I'm like, "Becky, what do you mean?" Okay. If we want to help our kids not be taken over by a people pleasing part, well, a pretty good way to do that is to help our kids identify what they want for themselves. Now, this doesn't mean they get what they want. Again, we often conflate the two. I want my kids to always know what they want. Most of the time, I'm actually probably gonna say no, 'cause they want a lot of things in life. Helping a kid preserve access to desire is totally unrelated to giving kids everything they want. Let's really separate them. Knowing what you want, getting what you want, two different things. Almost all kids' tantrums come down to wanting and not having. Almost all of them. Kids want something and we say no, and they are in that frustration, and it explodes. We can help kids preserve access to desire by separating behavior from an underlying want or wish. Or to get even more concrete, every time we name the wish or the want under the tantrum, while we set a boundary, if we need to, to keep our kids safe during a tantrum, we essentially are saying to our kids, "Oh, I'm not gonna let you do things that are unsafe, and it's okay to want things for yourself." You don't have to block access to desire just to make other people's lives easier.
- 23:10 – 31:04
Scripts in action + episode wrap: three takeaways for recovering people pleasers
- BEDr. Becky
That's huge. Let's go over some examples. Your kid wants a red crayon, and their friend is playing with a red crayon, and they're frustrated, and then they hit. Here's one intervention. "Stop hitting. Look, you're hurting him. You're hurting him." I'm paying more attention to impact than on what's going on to a child. Here's a different intervention. "I'm not gonna let you hit. That's the boundary I set. I'm gonna be the boundary for my kid he can't be for themselves." Now I'm establishing safety. After that, "I know you really want that red crayon. I know. You see these other crayons. There's a light red, there's a pink, there's an orange so similar. You don't want any of those. You only want that crayon." Maybe even your child says, "So can I have it? Can I have it? Can I have it?" "No, your friend's playing with it. I'm not gonna let you hit. Actually, we're gonna move further away to stay safe, and I understand how hard it is to want something and not have it." I am a sturdy leader. I am separating behavior from desire, and I'm also not using the situation to put guilt on my child. For my child in a dysregulated state to learn, "Oh, I guess the only thing that matters is that the other person is upset," that doesn't teach a kid a regulation skill they need. That only teaches a kid that their wants endangers their relationships. Here's another example. I'm in a toy store, and I told my child, "We're gonna go to the toy store. We're gonna buy a birthday present for your cousin. We're not getting anything else." Right? I've done this myself. Doesn't go well all the time. I'm there. My daughter is crying on the floor, having a meltdown. Here's an intervention that I wouldn't so much recommend, because again, it doesn't differentiate. "What is wrong with you? You're so embarrassing. Look around. Do you see any other kids on the floor crying?" Now, let me be clear, the reason those words come so easily to me is 'cause I've said them myself more than once, okay? So if you're thinking, ooh, I've definitely said that, join the club, take a deep breath, and come back. These words are an alternative, ones we hope to use some of the time. If your child is crying on the floor, I'd probably pick them up, move them away. "Hey, we're gonna go here, away from all the games. I know you want that game. I know. It's so hard to be in a toy store. It's so hard to be in a store full of things you want and not get anything. We're not gonna get anything besides this gift, and sweetie, I love that you want things for yourself. It's really cool. My no is still a no, but you're always allowed to want things." That's so powerful to say to kids. Let's go on to a couple other things. Celebrate differences with your kids. I love saying things like this here and there to my kids. "Huh, you know what's funny? I always have yogurt for breakfast. I love yogurt. You basically don't like yogurt at all. Isn't that cool? Me and you are so close, and yet we have so many things that are really different about us. Hmm." Really sets the stage to kind of establish your child's a separate person, and they don't need to gaze out to figure out what they're supposed to like, that they have that information inside of them, and it's okay to be different from other people. Bringing that all together, let's help our kids preserve access to their desire, let's celebrate the ways they're different from us, and let's focus initially on the skills our kids need rather than the impact their hard moments have on us. [gentle music] Let's tie it all together with three takeaways. One, use that visual of a tennis court. It is so powerful. We have to have some visual or metaphor to hold onto as we make emotional changes. So think about something where you might have your people pleasing tendencies act up, and then use the tennis court. Put yourself on one side, think about who's on the other, and really think through what is yours and what is theirs. Two, remember, we rarely ask for what we need and don't have to cope with someone else's disappointment. It often goes hand-in-hand, so set realistic expectations. Okay, I'm gonna ask my boss for a raise. My boss might sigh. I'm going to ask my partner to wake up early with our kids. My partner might feel annoyed. That sigh, that annoyance, it's not a sign you're doing anything wrong. It's actually a sign that we have to build up our own distress tolerance. Three, boundaries plus empathy. That is a recovering people pleaser's best friend for a formula. Okay, what's my boundary? That's the decision. My boundary is saying no. Empathy, right. I have to remember that's someone else's feelings, not mine, and if I empathize with it versus taking it on, that's how I can hold my boundary and honor my own needs. Thank you to all of you, everyone who called in. This truly is the most amazing community in the world. Thank you for co-creating this really important episode. [gentle music] Thanks for listening to Good Inside. I love co-creating episodes with you based on the real-life tricky situations in your family. To share what's happening in your home, you can call 646-598-2543, or email a voice note to goodinsidepodcast@gmail.com. There are so many more strategies and tips I wanna share with you, and so many Good Inside parents I want you to meet. I'm beyond excited that we now have a way to connect and learn together. Head to goodinside.com to learn more about Good Inside Membership. I promise you, it's totally game-changing. And follow me on Instagram and Facebook, @drbeckyatgoodinside, for a daily dose of parenting and self-care ideas. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Beth Rowe and Marie Cecile Anderson, and executive produced by Erica Belsky and me, Dr. Becky. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review it, or share this episode with a friend or family member as a way to start an important conversation. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle, and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside. [keyboard clicking] Why is it so hard to find reliable answers to parenting questions? How is it in 2022 parents still search on Google for answers from strangers? Well, now there's a better way. [gentle music] Introducing the Good Inside Membership, an expert-guided, community-powered platform redefining modern parenting. In our library, you'll find hundreds of bite-sized videos, articles, scripts, and workshops tackling the trickiest parenting topics, and it doesn't stop here. We've created a private community guided by me, Dr. Becky, and coaches trained in the Good Inside parenting method. Here, you can ask questions, connect with other parents, or attend a live event on a topic that matters to you. This is the parenting handbook that doesn't exist. This is parenting advice at your fingertips, where you need it, when you need it the most. This is Good Inside Membership.
Episode duration: 31:24
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Transcript of episode yRCD9Sp-yEk
