Good Inside with Dr. BeckyI Wanted to Be a Different Kind of Dad - Then I Had a Baby
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
40 min read · 7,777 words- 0:00 – 1:36
Chasing the “super dad” ideal—and realizing control disappears fast
- AIAymann Ismail
I, I've wanted to be the dad that I didn't have, um, who was active, who was interested-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... who was involved hands-on. I wanted to be the kind of dad that could do it all right and be involved in a way that would benefit the family. And, like, right away I learned that that was not the right way to do it. The one of the first things you lose is total control of how you're perceiving things and how, like, how you control yourself. It just is out the window. That's the first thing you lose. And then, uh, that's where I started to feel, like, useful. It's like, okay, I can do something-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... even if it's not directly-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... like tending to the baby.
- BEDr. Becky
This is Rattled, a show for when new parenthood shakes you. If you're new here, here's what we do. We take the thoughts and experiences that show up in new parenthood, the ones that feel too big, too shameful, too confusing to say out loud, the ones that nobody prepared us for, and we sit with them together. Today's experience is one that I think a lot of fathers, a lot of non-birthing parents experience. I'm just looking to feel useful around here. That thought often leads to anger or to disengagement, even though, of course, underneath it is actually a beautiful thing. That parent wants to be involved. So that's what we're going to talk about today. Today's guest is Aymann Ismail. He's the author of the book Becoming Baba. He's a Slate writer, and he shares a deeply honest exploration of what happens when becoming a parent forces you to see yourself and your own parents and your early
- 1:36 – 3:07
What “cool, pre-dad Aymann” was like: momentum, novelty, and impulse
- BEDr. Becky
years differently. If you've ever thought about, "How am I going to continue being the person I was before a baby? Is that even possible now?" this episode is for you. [gentle music] Who were you before you became a father? Tell me about that guy.
- AIAymann Ismail
You want me to tell you who I was before I became a dad?
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
I don't even remember that.
- BEDr. Becky
[laughs]
- AIAymann Ismail
What? Who was I before-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... I became a dad? So much more cool than I am right now, I'll tell you that. Uh, I was a photojournalist for, like, a very cool graffiti skateboarding magazine.
- BEDr. Becky
Oh my goodness.
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah.
- BEDr. Becky
You, you weren't lying about the cool.
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah.
- BEDr. Becky
Okay. And where, where did your confidence come from pre-fatherhood? Like, what were you really confident about back then?
- AIAymann Ismail
Hmm. I wouldn't say I was... I wouldn't describe myself as confident. I would just say that I was, like, really out of my body, you know? So I was always just engaging in activities, always doing the next thing. So I, I-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... I didn't spend a lot of time, like, arguing about myself or explaining myself to people.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
I was always just doing the next thing.
- BEDr. Becky
Hmm.
- AIAymann Ismail
You know?
- BEDr. Becky
Movement oriented, next action.
- AIAymann Ismail
Movement oriented.
- BEDr. Becky
You like to do things.
- AIAymann Ismail
Goal oriented.
- BEDr. Becky
Yep.
- AIAymann Ismail
Excited about just being at this, a spot that I've never been to before.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
That kind of thing.
- BEDr. Becky
Spontaneous?
- AIAymann Ismail
Impulsive.
- 3:07 – 5:39
Partnership as a ‘limit’: meeting his wife and discovering you can be both things
- BEDr. Becky
Okay. Um, so actually I have a question way before becoming a father. You're partnered.
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm.
- BEDr. Becky
Okay. There's-
- AIAymann Ismail
Not way before.
- BEDr. Becky
Okay. But I'm just thinking-
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm
- BEDr. Becky
... before in this interview I get to fatherhood. I'm just in my own head right now.
- AIAymann Ismail
Okay.
- BEDr. Becky
Um, being in a partnership is a form of a limit.
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm.
- BEDr. Becky
Right? How did that, how did that adjustment happen?
- AIAymann Ismail
Well, she was super hot, right? So I think that, like, really changes the game.
- BEDr. Becky
Those are the important things.
- AIAymann Ismail
Uh, I mean, respectfully. [laughs]
- BEDr. Becky
She's respectfully hot.
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah. She's... Respectfully to her and to-
- BEDr. Becky
I've never heard of that, respectfully hot. I like it.
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah. No, she really is. She's really, really cool. So, um, I met her spontaneously. I was just in my apartment with a bunch of other people in Brooklyn.
- BEDr. Becky
Huh.
- AIAymann Ismail
I was on my way to an art party. A, a friend of mine was having, like, a show in, um, this really awesome venue. So I was about to leave, and then somebody brings along their friend, who is Egyptian like I am, who's really, really, you know, excitable like I am.
- BEDr. Becky
Hmm.
- AIAymann Ismail
Who just gets-- wants to just, like, do the next thing, just like me.
- BEDr. Becky
Interesting.
- AIAymann Ismail
And I didn't think that I could ever meet somebody like that, because for my entire life leading up to that moment, I always felt like I had to choose one or the other. Like, am I gonna be this person who is going to be family centric, religious, the kind of person that my parents would accept as, like, a successful Muslim Arab kid?
- BEDr. Becky
Hmm.
- AIAymann Ismail
Or do I want to be the version of myself that I ended up being, just somebody who was just excited about everything else that New York City and New Jersey had to offer?
- BEDr. Becky
Hmm.
- AIAymann Ismail
And then in comes this person who I felt like really perfectly inc- embodied both.
- BEDr. Becky
Huh.
- AIAymann Ismail
You know?
- 5:39 – 8:52
Fatherhood expectations shaped by his own dad’s absence—and holding multiple truths
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah. Yeah. Before we fully transition to questions about fatherhood, before you became a father, did you have ideas about what it would be like?
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm.
- BEDr. Becky
Kind of... You did. So tell me about that.
- AIAymann Ismail
Well, I knew what kind of dad I didn't want to be, you know? Uh-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... so my dad, when I- my entire childhood was sort of one foot in the door, one foot out.
- BEDr. Becky
Hmm.
- AIAymann Ismail
Uh, he was very, very busy. He worked as a taxi cab driver in New York City. F- he worked the night shift, so he was gone 12, 13, 14, 15 hours a day. And, uh, you know, so he, he was very much somebody who would kind of come in, have a meal, go to sleep, just recover enough to begin his next shift.
- BEDr. Becky
Hmm.
- AIAymann Ismail
And I knew that that's not the kind of dad that I wanted to be at all. That's the only thing that I really knew. Uh, that being said, like, I understand that, like, the parameters of what he was working with is very different than what we think of fatherhood these days. And, you know, at a certain time, it was just enough to come in and provide money.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
And that was your role as a father, and you fulfilled it, and everything else was fine. So I think for me, wanting a very intimate relationship with my father instructed the way that I wanted very badly to be-
- BEDr. Becky
Hmm
- AIAymann Ismail
... intimate with my own kids.
- BEDr. Becky
Mm-hmm.
- AIAymann Ismail
You know?
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
Like, I don't- I still don't really know who he is personally. Like, I'm, I'm veering between whether he's, like, a comedic genius or he's just super awkward.
- BEDr. Becky
[laughs]
- AIAymann Ismail
Like, I don't know, I still don't know whether he is or isn't.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
'Cause a lot of times he says stuff that's, like, funny.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
Uh, but then he'll just kinda look at you like, "Why do you think that's funny?" I'm like, so, uh, mm... But, so, but I think I want that kind of relationship where, with my kids, where they'll kn- they'll just know who I am.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
You know?
- BEDr. Becky
That duality. So you're like, "I don't really know him-
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah
- BEDr. Becky
... in a deeper way."
- AIAymann Ismail
I respect him.
- 8:52 – 10:59
Day one home from the hospital: feeding panic, conflict, and regret
- AIAymann Ismail
I mean, I'll bring you to, like, the hardest moment of my entire parenthood journey, which happened just the very first day that we brought our f- our son home. It was horrible. So I was under the impression that being a parent was something you can prepare for, so I got all the books. I read, uh, Happiest Baby on the Block. I read all of, like, there's this whole cottage industry that's there if you wanna access it, that's supposed to prepare you for those early days. They tell you exactly when your kids are gonna pee and poo. They tell you how often you're gonna be changing diapers. They tell you everything about what the color of the consistency and X, Y, Z so that you can come in as an expert and know exactly what needs to get done. Total bullshit. Tot- I mean, from my experience, total bullshit. The, the kid came home the first day, and right off the bat, they, my, my wife was having a hard time latching, and so they weren't getting a lot of milk, and so they weren't peeing at all. It was, like, hours, and there was no pee. And I was like, "This baby is starving to death. Like, we need to do something. This baby's crying. I need, as the f- as the father who knows what's supposed to happen, need to intervene," and what I was trying to do is I was trying to force my wife to give up on latching and just feed him formula. I was like, "We have the formula. Baby's hungry. This is a blessing. We need to be able to just feed the baby. Like, that's the goal, isn't it?" And I was just in her ear, like, not leaving her alone, and the b- the, like, the, the latching wasn't happening, and it was just really overwhelming for her. And then she just burst onto the tears, and she was like, "How am I ever gonna survive as a parent if I have to do it with you?"
- BEDr. Becky
Mm.
- AIAymann Ismail
And I was like, "F- this is, like, the last thing that I saw for myself and my future as, as a new dad." I wanted to be the kind of dad that could do it all right and be involved in a way that would benefit the family and, like, right away, I learned that that was not the right way to do it at all.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
So, um, it was really, really painful for me, like, that period, and I, and I lashed out, and I was like, "You're gonna just starve the baby because of your ego, and this is because of you," and all, I said a really, a lot of hurtful stuff to her-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... that I really, really deeply regret.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- 10:59 – 14:26
Redefining ‘help’: getting out of the way, repairing trust, and finding usefulness
- AIAymann Ismail
And, um, yeah, I like, when, seeing her cry, I, yeah, I just hated myself for a long time, so I was like, "Let me just get out of the way. Let me just try doing something else," and so I left, and I went to, it was the summer, so I was, like, tending to my garden. That was, like, my COVID activity. I learned to garden. And so I was, like, just trimming my plants, giving them water, that kind of thing, and then when I came back, it was working. The baby was latching. And so I was like, "I was in the way." And from that moment on, I was like, "I need to totally reevaluate what my role is here. Do I need to be involved in the stuff that she's taking care of?"
- BEDr. Becky
Hmm.
- AIAymann Ismail
Um, and so we had, like, a l- a, after I deeply apologized and I told her that was never gonna happen again, I made a promise that I was not gonna get in her way, uh, as a new mom either, and I was gonna respect that this is, like, something that your body needs to do, because, um, if the latch doesn't work right away, it's gonna be impossible later and the milk's not gonna come, and there's, like, a whole biology to it that I wasn't appreciative or respecting at the time. So, uh, after I apologized, I, like, asked her, I was like, "How can I help?" And she was like Do the dishes, man. [laughs] Do the laundry. And I was like-
- BEDr. Becky
Get me food
- AIAymann Ismail
... do something like that. Yeah, so I did.
- BEDr. Becky
Mm-hmm.
- AIAymann Ismail
And then, uh, that's where I started to feel, like, useful. It's like, okay, I can do something-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... even if it's not directly-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... like tending to the baby.
- BEDr. Becky
What, um, first of all, thank you for sharing that, and I know how common that couple dynamic is.
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah.
- BEDr. Becky
And what's your own most generous interpretation of just what was going on for you when you were watching-
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm
- BEDr. Becky
... the lash not happen, the diapers not happen? Like, your most generous interpretation of, like, how were you feeling? Like, what was happening inside for you?
- AIAymann Ismail
For me personally?
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
I felt like I needed to, like, be as present as I can. Like, I, I wanted to be the dad that I didn't have, um, who was active, who was interested, who was-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... involved, hands-on. You know, rolling the sleeves up and getting his hands dirty. Um, I wanted to be changing the diapers. I wanted to be mixing the formula. All that stuff-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... really excited me.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
You know? So yeah, I, I went in feeling like I could be super dad. Like, I could be him. I could be the dad that I wanted.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
But I realized then that it's, there's, like, different ways of doing that, and in a way, um, you know, there's a partnership, and if you're not fostering the partnership, you c- you're, you're at risk of hurting the partnership, you know, and getting in the way.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah. A- you know, what I'm thinking about is, um, and my own experience, I almost feel bad about, but maybe it's also not surprising. I've never really thought about what I'm about to say for the dad.
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm.
- BEDr. Becky
But I think one of the things that happens for women when we have a baby is we don't realize, um, all the different things that unconsciously become a symbol of whether we're a good mom.
- 14:26 – 16:37
Autopilot, sleep deprivation, and the ‘emotional registry’: journaling as regulation
- AIAymann Ismail
... emotionally, even if you are, like, trying to have a game plan, you know, like I, I played football in high school, and it's like everybody has a plan until you get hit in the head, right? As soon as the ball snaps, it's like you're-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... just responding biologically, like, what is, what is the next thing you're gonna do? That's a lot ... I, I, I felt the same way after, like, that first three weeks-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... of no sleep.
- BEDr. Becky
Yes.
- AIAymann Ismail
And you're, you're just on autopilot.
- BEDr. Becky
Yes.
- AIAymann Ismail
And I, I would say the best thing that I did for myself, that I think saved me from, like, really floundering further than I was, was taking time to sit down and write everything on paper. Like, how I was experiencing things. So for example, there was a moment when I thought my whole life was gonna fall apart. It was like 4:00 in the morning.
- BEDr. Becky
Mm.
- AIAymann Ismail
Uh, baby was sleeping. My wife was pumping, and so she was, like, putting milk in the fridge. And so I was, uh, we were gonna take turns to feed the baby at night. She was gonna breastfeed, and I was gonna give a bottle every other feeding. And then when I went to go reach for it, the, the bottle just, like, slipped through my hands and spilled all over the floor, and it would take her hours, hours to fill a bottle, and it was, like, painful, and she was, like, using all these creams to, like, deal with the pain, and it was like a whole thing.
- BEDr. Becky
Mm.
- AIAymann Ismail
And my, my gut reaction, 'cause I was so frustrated and sleep-deprived, was, "I can't believe that she didn't screw the bottle on tight," or something like that, 'cause it was just gonna turn into something. Um, but before, uh, 'cause I woke up earlier that, that morning, I just wrote it down, and I just expressed what I was feeling and what happened and, like, why I felt all the emotions. I was, like, trying to just, like, justify it on paper-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... like I was explaining to somebody else.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
And it just sort of vanished. Like, I just didn't... I apologized, and I was like, "That's not gonna happen again."
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
Like, I was just really tired, and you know what she said? "It's cool. Happens."
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah. But, but knowing that in advance and trying to think about yourself-
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm
- BEDr. Becky
... and journal about it, that is, like, I always think about this concept of, like, the emotional registry rather than, like, the baby item registry.
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm.
- BEDr. Becky
Like, that's the emotional registry items-
- AIAymann Ismail
That's the... Yeah, I like that
- BEDr. Becky
... that really matter.
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm.
- 16:37 – 18:12
Sponsor break: hydration and mid-afternoon parenting depletion
- BEDr. Becky
Right? And [laughs] I think that's so important. There's a very specific moment in the day a lot of parents hit, usually in the afternoon, where you're still going, but everything feels harder than it should. You're answering questions, making decisions, trying to stay patient, and suddenly simple things feel complicated. Like, why does choosing a snack suddenly feel like a high-stakes decision? And most of us, me included, have the tendency to just push through it, power through. But I've started to pay more attention to those in-between moments and how something as basic as hydration can actually help, and that's what I like about element's sparkling electrolyte drinks. They're designed for those exact moments, not just workouts, but real life, school drop-off, the transition between soccer and coming home, that mid-afternoon dip around 4:07 PM, and it's a simple grab-and-go can, no mixing, no prep, something I can just reach for when I need a small reset for me. No sugar, no artificial ingredients, just a way to support yourself a little better in the middle of a long day. If you wanna try it, element is offering a free gift with any purchase. Just go to drinkelement.com/goodinside. That's drink LMNT.com/goodinside. [relaxing music] Tell
- 18:12 – 20:34
When a baby exposes the marriage: strain, high stakes, and learning to disagree
- BEDr. Becky
me about how you and your wife... Like, yeah, like, what happened in your partnership?
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm.
- BEDr. Becky
Like, I'm hearing about these moments, but what, what sticks out to you about those first couple months?
- AIAymann Ismail
It was v- a, a lot more strained than it had ever been-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... in our entire relationship. Um, so we'd actually met and got married within the same year, you know? Which I think is really rare in, like, this day and age.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
Uh, but for, like, Muslims and Arabs, it's, like, not that uncommon.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
Uh, but for us, it was like we were still kind of getting to know each other at that, at that moment, you know? Um, and there's a lot of reasons for it. It's like, if you wanna, like, move in together and have all that thing, you do need to... We don't, we don't do that unless we're married.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
And, uh, she'd, like, just graduated with her master's, and, you know, she just want... It, it was the right time for both of us.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
And so when we had our first kid, we were still... We'd never really had, like, a big obstacle that either of us had to overcome with the other. We were still kind of, like, in this honeymoon-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... we love everything about you kind of phase.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
You know, even when we were, like, nesting-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... I, I noticed how she was just loving all of my ideas, and I was loving all of her ideas, and we were just so in love.
- BEDr. Becky
Mm-hmm.
- AIAymann Ismail
You know? Um, and it was, made that whole process really easy.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
So I think we, we put a lot of weight on it when we didn't disagree, when we, when we did disagree, and w- it was a lot of, it was very emotional for both of us trying to figure out, like, who are we actually dealing with?
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
You know?
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
So the stakes felt really, really high. And, uh, our baby, you know, looking back, was, like, not a difficult baby. It wasn't like they were crying every moment they were awake, you know? But obviously they're crying a lot, and our, our panic is going off 'cause that's what they're crying is for. They're trying to alert us that they need something, right? Dirty diaper or whatever the hell they need. And yeah, I think part of it was experiencing a new side of our partner that we had just never encountered before.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
You know?
- 20:34 – 22:27
The anti-criticism rule: if you have an opinion, it becomes your job
- AIAymann Ismail
And so for example, um, when we did start having, when we did start having, like, advice for each other or opinions about how the other person was doing things, it was my wife's idea. She was like, "New rule: If you think you could wash the bottles better, then that is your job. So if you have-
- BEDr. Becky
Hmm
- AIAymann Ismail
... an idea on how to wash something, or how to do the laundry better, or you don't like the way I fold stuff-
- BEDr. Becky
Yep
- AIAymann Ismail
... or you don't like the way I do this or do that-
- BEDr. Becky
Ugh
- AIAymann Ismail
... then that's your job now." And she's like, "And vice versa."
- BEDr. Becky
That's a great rule.
- AIAymann Ismail
"If I give you an opinion about something, then I will, then it's automatic that's gonna be my job now."
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
And guess what? We kept our opinions to ourselves. [laughs]
- BEDr. Becky
100%. And that, that is such a good way of phrasing it because do I really care enough about this thing-
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah
- BEDr. Becky
... to then make it my job is a very different barometer than just how easy it is to criticize.
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah.
- BEDr. Becky
Like, that's what's happened with me and my husband. He thinks I load the dishwasher-
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm
- BEDr. Becky
... in the wrong way. I'm like-
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah. That's-
- BEDr. Becky
"Great"
- AIAymann Ismail
... I, I said the exact same thing.
- BEDr. Becky
I never have to un-... Great. So-
- AIAymann Ismail
There's a right way to do it, and there's a wrong way to do it.
- BEDr. Becky
See, there are people in this world who feel like that, and there's people like me who's like, "Whatever. Just throw it in."
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah. [laughs]
- BEDr. Becky
"It doesn't matter." My husband, if he hears me say this in this podcast, like, it's probably the most triggering thing. He's like, "Ah, there is a right way," you know?
- AIAymann Ismail
I'm on your husband's side.
- BEDr. Becky
Okay, fine.
- AIAymann Ismail
I think he's right.
- BEDr. Becky
But do you do the dishwasher loading?
- 22:27 – 27:03
Missing freedom: jealousy, resentment, and rebuilding space for joy
- BEDr. Becky
Okay, there's two things I wanna bring back that you were talking about. Number one, I'm thinking about how much of your identity and time spent in your early years were around adventure, limit seeking, pushing the limits, saying out, and I'm curious how that, how did that come into play when, at least for me, and maybe this wasn't for you, I feel like so many of the early months that the baby was, like, stuck at home-
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm
- BEDr. Becky
... so monotonous. It was, like, all limits and no, no real adventure in the same way. I'm curious how that went for you.
- AIAymann Ismail
Still dealing with that.
- BEDr. Becky
Okay. [laughs]
- AIAymann Ismail
But, uh, uh, I mean, how honest can I be?
- BEDr. Becky
I'm 100%, 110% honest.
- AIAymann Ismail
Really? Really?
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
All right, I'm gonna tell you how much of a scumbag I am.
- BEDr. Becky
Okay.
- AIAymann Ismail
Um, so my wife works part-time, and I work from home. So usually I'm home all the time, and on the days that she's working in the hospital where she works, I'm just, like, doing full dad duty, everything, right? I work full-time, so it cuts into my hours. But for some re- I'm, like, doing the math in my head, but I'm not saying anything out loud.
- BEDr. Becky
Hmm.
- AIAymann Ismail
So whenever she has, like, a night that she wants to, like, go out or do something with her friends, it hurts my feelings, you know? Um, because she's, like, has the freedom to do it, and it's not that I'm, like, not giving myself the opportunity to do it, and I feel like it needs to be balanced or it needs to be even or we need to, like-
- BEDr. Becky
Mm-hmm
- AIAymann Ismail
... count how many days or something like that.
- BEDr. Becky
Mm-hmm.
- AIAymann Ismail
Which I know is the wrong thing to do.
- BEDr. Becky
No, no, but I'm just, I'm looking at this-
- AIAymann Ismail
But emotionally-
- BEDr. Becky
Give me the bridge
- AIAymann Ismail
... like, at 1:00 AM or something like that-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... I'm at home, like, going to bed. Kids are tucked in. They're all fed. They're cleaned, and I'm like, "How is she not home yet?"
- BEDr. Becky
Like, resentful?
- AIAymann Ismail
A little bit.
- BEDr. Becky
Angry?
- AIAymann Ismail
A- no, not very angry.
- BEDr. Becky
No.
- AIAymann Ismail
But, like, jealous.
- 27:03 – 29:52
Recalibrating adventure: bringing kids along, loosening routines, and future seasons
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah. And, like, only you know, but, and maybe that's true, or maybe it's a recalibration of, like, I'm gonna be there, and yeah, I'm gonna be the guy who leaves early. And of course it's, my first voice is gonna be like, "This sucks."
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah.
- BEDr. Becky
"That wasn't even worth it." But maybe I just know to expect that voice 'cause it's, it's recalibrating.
- AIAymann Ismail
You know what I'm telling myself these days?
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
One day my kids are gonna be old enough for me to just bring them with me.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah. I-
- AIAymann Ismail
And that gives me a little bit of hope.
- BEDr. Becky
Well, you know, it's, it's interesting 'cause I have this friend. I'm, I was never a very, very spontaneous person. I'm very boring and, you know-
- AIAymann Ismail
[laughs]
- BEDr. Becky
... I do, I like predictability. [laughs] Um, but I think about one of my friends who, not exactly the same as you at all, but, like, on the inside, like, ugh, just, like, the spontaneity, the travel, the fun, the I'm up for it, let's go, let's go, let's go. And you know, and we were talking about her transition to motherhood, and she's like, "Geez, my kids are gonna love that version of me-
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm
- BEDr. Becky
... in a decade," you know? [laughs]
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah.
- BEDr. Becky
Like, and it's so true, and they're gonna benefit from that in a decade. And different stages of parenting, I think what's interesting, are hard for us, so often based on how we think of ourselves and what matters.
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm.
- BEDr. Becky
And there's a hard stage for everyone, but you might be in a season with young kids where the things that you are-
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah
- BEDr. Becky
... gonna bring to your kid's life, like, that's a little delayed. And then there are people when kids get older, they love the predictability and dependability. A- and then the, the older years are so hard, and you might be like, "Oh man," like, "I'm so ready for those years," right?
- AIAymann Ismail
[laughs]
- BEDr. Becky
This kind of, kind of-
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah. Or maybe I'll feel differently when I'm at those years.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
But right now, it's like my, I, I, I guess I should say my, my oldest is four-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... and my younger is three.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
Well, he's, I, I should stop saying four. He's gonna turn five in, like, a couple weeks. So five and three and a half.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
I can't do things like, I like going to events like soccer games or basketball games or hockey games. So many of those things start at 7:00, and their bedtime is 8:00.
- 29:52 – 32:21
Learning emotional presence: siblings, nurturance, and the sister-as-anchor story
- BEDr. Becky
... you 100%. Okay, the last thing I wanted to bring back is I wanna know for everyone l- I, I wonder if people are, who are listening are wondering this, 'cause I'm wondering this. How are you figuring out how to be so emotionally present for your kids when you, you don't have that in your bones? Not, like, a capacity-
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm
- BEDr. Becky
... but just in terms of what was actually delivered to you.
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm.
- BEDr. Becky
So h- how are you doing that? Like, what's the how?
- AIAymann Ismail
That's a v- that's a question I hadn't really considered. Uh, I, I... This is gonna sound funny, but I shared a room with my sister.
- BEDr. Becky
Huh. Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
[laughs]
- BEDr. Becky
No, that, that doesn't sound funny at all.
- AIAymann Ismail
No, but I read a study about how if you spent a lot of time with, like, your, your sister-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... that actually develops you a lot emotionally as a boy.
- BEDr. Becky
Interesting.
- AIAymann Ismail
So, uh, I sh- I s- we had a, I had a bunk bed with my sister my whole life until she went to college, and we're still best friends, and we see each other, like, every week.
- BEDr. Becky
Yes.
- AIAymann Ismail
So maybe that's credit to her.
- BEDr. Becky
Does it feel like what you're saying as you were talking about, "I want to be a very different father. I want to be emotionally present"-
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah
- BEDr. Becky
... what I missed or didn't think to ask is, did you have some of those emotionally close experiences with other people?
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah.
- BEDr. Becky
And it sounds like you, you were like-
- AIAymann Ismail
I had, uh-
- BEDr. Becky
... you were embedded. [laughs]
- AIAymann Ismail
Yeah. I had two older brothers and an older sister.
- BEDr. Becky
Uh-huh.
- AIAymann Ismail
And my older sister was very nurturing and protective-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... and didn't punish me for having feelings, and was always the person to, like, calm things down and ask me what I was really trying to say when I was having, like, these emotional outbursts.
- BEDr. Becky
Mm.
- AIAymann Ismail
And that helped a lot.
- 32:21 – 36:22
What he’d tell new dads: write it down before you react
- BEDr. Becky
Um, okay, looking back, what, what would you say to the version of you about to become a father in those couple weeks, or maybe to the person listening to this who's about to be in that stage?
- AIAymann Ismail
Mm-hmm.
- BEDr. Becky
You know, not, it doesn't, not just pure advice, but just, yeah, like, what, what's helpful to hear?
- AIAymann Ismail
Hmm. I mean, other than listen to this sh- show?
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
Okay, okay, okay. Uh, I would say, uh, as often as you can, write it down because-
- BEDr. Becky
Ah
- AIAymann Ismail
... one of the things, the, one of the first things you lose is total control of how you're perceiving things and how, like, how you control yourself. It just is out the window. That's the first thing you lose. It just becomes so raw and so visceral, and you just become a different person in those, like, first couple months.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
And so one of the things that I really benefited from most was just journaling.
- BEDr. Becky
Yes.
- AIAymann Ismail
And as corny as it sounds, you really get a chance to just come back into your body and see how you're responding to things and give yourself an honest critique of how things are going.
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah.
- AIAymann Ismail
So, uh, I would say that's basically as close as you can get to therapy with-
- BEDr. Becky
Yeah
- AIAymann Ismail
... with it being just you and yourself and a notepad. [gentle music]
- BEDr. Becky
I have a feeling you felt like Aymann at different times. Maybe you also have struggled to reconcile how you can take parts of your pre-child life and incorporate them in your post-child life, even if they don't feel as good. Maybe you have felt resentful of a partner who seemingly has more freedom or really does have more freedom than you. Maybe you have moments where you think about the parent you had, the parent you want to be, and you're trying to figure out how to close that gap. There were so many gems in today's episode. Like, I actually am going to take so many things we talked about and implement them in my own life, and I'm guessing you're also thinking about the nuggets throughout. And so I wanna let you know I'm putting something together, maybe it's for you. It's also just written down for me, um, the top five things couples need to know about the first months of early parenthood. I'm going to put a link to that in the show notes, and I think it's a really great thing to go to to talk about with your partner because given it's a resource from me, you can a little bit make me the bad guy. You can say, "Hey, let's look at this thing Dr. Becky and Aymann Ismail put together, and let's just talk about it. What resonates? What doesn't?" When you have something to look at together, you're much less likely to be against each other because now you're on the same team gazing in the same direction. I also have to say that this conversation resonated so much because it's exactly what we're doing at Good Inside Baby. I think the thing about Good Inside Baby that I'm so proud of, and probably comes out of anger, is that parents need the emotional preparation. We need to know how to reconcile how we're feeling. We need to know how to actually prioritize our relationship. We need to figure out how to communicate effectively when things are unknown, and we have to call an audible, and that's what we are actually doing in the Good Inside Membership and Good Inside Baby app. So yes, lactation guidance, sleep guidance, growth tracking, all the things, but I think the thing that's really different and frankly revolutionary is I think it'll end up helping you and your partnership maybe even more than it helps your baby, and that's saying a lot because holy moly is it gonna help your baby. If you have a story you wanna share with other new parents, something maybe we wanna talk about on Rattled, I would really, really love to hear from you. You can email podcast@goodinside.com to reach us. And now let's end the way we always do. Put your feet on the ground, place a hand on your heart, and let's remind ourselves even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. I believe in you. You've got this. [gentle music]
Episode duration: 36:29
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