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“I’m Bored!” What Parents Should Do Instead of Entertaining Their Kids | Dr. Becky Lizzie Assa

Your kid whines, “I’m so bored!” and suddenly you feel like you have to fix it. Dr. Becky and independent play expert Lizzie Assa reframe boredom as a good thing, show parents how to step out of the entertainer role, and share a few doable ways to build independence, creativity, and resilience. Get the Good Inside App by Dr. Becky: https://bit.ly/4fSxbzk Your Good Inside membership might be eligible for HSA/FSA reimbursement! To learn more about how to get your membership reimbursed, check out the link here: https://www.goodinside.com/fsa-hsa-eligibility/ Follow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside Sign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletter For a full transcript of the episode, go to http://goodinside.com/podcast Thank you to our sponsor, Care.com. Parents carry so much, and having trusted support can make a real difference—lightening the mental load and helping families feel more present. Care.com makes it easier to find background-checked caregivers, camps, and daycare, and for a limited time you can use code GOOD35 to save 35% on a Premium Membership. Thank you to our sponsor, Airbnb. If you’re interested in hosting but don’t want the added stress, Airbnb’s Co-Host Network lets you work with a vetted local co-host who can handle things like guest communication, check-ins, and on-site support. Learn more about hosting with help at airbnb.com/host. Thank you to our sponsor, SmartyPants. SmartyPants Vitamins are the #1 Kids Gummy Multi, delivering 33% more nutrients than the second-leading product with 16 essential nutrients to support kids’ health—and kids actually love the taste. Find SmartyPants on Amazon, or at Target and Walmart today. Screens are a big part of family life, but many parents feel how easily they can get in the way of real connection. The Reset, a national movement from Outward Bound USA, invites families to unplug for 24 hours on Saturday, January 24th and reconnect in whatever way works for them. Learn more and sign the pledge at the-reset.org.

Dr. BeckyhostLizzie Assaguest
Jan 13, 202636mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:22

    Why “I’m bored” feels so triggering—and why kids are bored more today

    1. BE

      I'm bored. Mom, I'm so bored. Dad, there's nothing to do. It's so boring. Okay. You are not alone if this is so triggering, but also relatively common. And yes, our kids are bored more often than we were as kids, because their lives are actually so much more stimulating. So, the situation that leads them to feel bored is just so much more common because there's so much stuff, so much dopamine, so many activities all around them. I am so excited to completely reframe the discussion around boredom, because by the end of today, you're going to start seeing your kids' boredom complaints as a good thing, as a sign that you're doing this parenting thing exactly right. I have brought in Lizzie Assa for this conversation. She is an expert on independent play and boredom, and she breaks down these topics in a way that makes so much sense, but also feels totally new and relieving. This is a conversation you're going to use right away in your home. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. We'll be back right after this. Let's just start with maybe what boredom's about. Like, what is really happening in this moment? And when you hear a parent talk about their kid who's bored, like, where does your mind start to go?

  2. 1:22 – 2:25

    Reframing boredom as a parenting win (not a failure)

    1. LA

      You know, I have to laugh because my own kids will still say to me like, "Mom, I'm bored." And every time I'm like, "Guys, [laughs] hi." Um-

    2. BE

      Do you know me? [laughs]

    3. LA

      But, you know, I think the best, the thing about it is that f- as a parent, it makes us feel like, [gasps] am I doing enough?

    4. BE

      Mm.

    5. LA

      And, you know, my real goal is to really reframe that for parents, of this is a good thing. This is a good thing, and when you lean into it, it's not just about independent play. It's about relationship, understanding who your kid is, what lights them up-

    6. BE

      Mm

    7. LA

      ... what are they grappling with. And when we reserve that space for boredom, and we, as the adult, feel anchored and okay with boredom, it lets our kids feel safe in boredom.

    8. BE

      When kids complain about being bored, most parents have an immediate thought, "I'm doing something wrong. I'm not doing enough." Or are you kind of saying like, "Ugh, this is my problem to solve. Boredom is a problem to solve," versus... Give me the versus, versus what's it-

  3. 2:25 – 4:41

    The culture of optimizing childhood vs. protecting downtime

    1. LA

      Well, you know, I think in today's culture, we see it as our job to kind of optimize childhood, to make sure we are giving our kids the opportunities that maybe we didn't have, right?

    2. BE

      Mm.

    3. LA

      We are setting them up for, you know, this enrichment, this, you know, this team sport or whatever, to give them that leg up, right?

    4. BE

      Mm.

    5. LA

      And for me, I really think about it the opposite way, right? I really think about leaving space for boredom as that's the thing that is giving my child the opportunity and the leg up.

    6. BE

      So, i- is what you're saying, okay, my kid says, "I'm bored," maybe parents are thinking it's true. When they say that, it feels like an alarm bell.

    7. LA

      Yeah.

    8. BE

      And the only reason something's an alarm bell is if it's a problem to solve. But you're almost saying, Lizzie, there's something, like, positive when your kid says, "I'm bored". Maybe you're doing something very right as a parent. Like, do I pat myself on the back a little now?

    9. LA

      You do.

    10. BE

      Okay.

    11. LA

      I do.

    12. BE

      So walk me through that. Yeah.

    13. LA

      Yeah, I do, because to me, it means, okay, like, I see it as my job, and the, for the parents that I work with, to schedule in that downtime for play and rest in the same way. And I'm not saying don't sign your kid up for soccer. Don't sign your kid up for the enrichment that they love. But I am saying reserve that time to be bored, to play, to rest, with the same ferocity that you do for the lessons, right?

    14. BE

      Yeah, yeah.

    15. LA

      And so when I do h- when your kid does come to you with, "I'm bored," to me, that says, "You, Becky, great job."

    16. BE

      Yeah.

    17. LA

      Like, you reserved the time, right?

    18. BE

      A- and I think that matters so much, 'cause anyone listening, even that simple reframe makes a big difference. We're always unconsciously looking for signs that we're doing a good job as a parent.

    19. LA

      Of course.

    20. BE

      And if you actually think of "I'm bored" as one of those signs [laughs] i- it's, it's harder to be triggered by it. Even if you don't know what to do next, you stop it from being a problem to solve, right?

    21. LA

      Yes, and it is. You know, it is triggering. It is still triggering for me, and a- I research and study and wrote a book about the benefits of boredom, and still, I can get that feeling of [gasps] should I have signed them up for that extra thing?

    22. BE

      Yes.

    23. LA

      All their friends are doing this, and I'm-

    24. BE

      Mm

    25. LA

      ... and I'm not. You know? So I get it. I get it.

  4. 4:41 – 5:02

    Why parents became the entertainment department (and why it exhausts us)

    1. BE

      Or do I need to now be the originator of ideas for my kid? A- and by the way, it's probably one of the reasons we go to bed so exhausted and resentful of our parenting, 'cause, like, w- we have almost outsourced our kids' creative [laughs] abilities to being our responsibility.

    2. LA

      Mm-hmm.

    3. BE

      'Cause ac- okay, I guess I'll, I have to, I have to give them this activity, or I need to come up with the idea constantly on a treadmill.

  5. 5:02 – 6:03

    What our childhoods had that kids need again: long, unstructured practice at play

    1. LA

      Yep. But, you know, I think it, when we think back to, to, you know, we're about the same age, and when we go back and think about our own childho- childhoods-

    2. BE

      Mm-hmm

    3. LA

      ... you know, there was time, right, to just kind of wander, to play. Our parents didn't see it as their job to entertain us. Like, they were interested in us, sure, but, but it wasn't all-encompassing to them.

    4. BE

      Yep.

    5. LA

      Right?

    6. BE

      Yep.

    7. LA

      And so we had time and the repetition to learn how to play, to get really good at being in charge of our own long Saturday afternoons.

    8. BE

      Mm.

    9. LA

      No one was saying to us, "We have this club sport, and it's three hours away, and this, we have this here." That wasn't happening, right?

    10. BE

      And 13 birthday parties on Saturday.

    11. LA

      And 13 birthday parties.

    12. BE

      I'm not sure how you can eat pizza and cake that many times, but you can.

    13. LA

      You know, and so we had time-

    14. BE

      Yeah

    15. LA

      ... to practice playing and get really good at it.

    16. BE

      Yes.

    17. LA

      And now I want parents to give kids back that childhood, give them back that time.

  6. 6:03 – 7:02

    Your phone, your tolerance, and the “this is not my problem to solve” shift

    1. BE

      And, and I guess the other thing versus our childhoods is what I often think is the un- Said part of the discussion around boredom, and screens, and independent play is our tolerance for our kids whining.

    2. LA

      Mm-hmm.

    3. BE

      It has to be less than our parents, because we're on our phones all the- We're not bored that much.

    4. LA

      Mm-mm.

    5. BE

      I'm always like, "Well, what..."

    6. LA

      Mm-hmm.

    7. BE

      "I can do ding, ding, ding-

    8. LA

      Mm-hmm

    9. BE

      ... and find such pleasure," right? So I'm less tolerant of my kids' discomfort.

    10. LA

      Of course.

    11. BE

      Right?

    12. LA

      And there's just so many more options available to us-

    13. BE

      Mm-hmm

    14. LA

      ... as parents, right?

    15. BE

      Yes.

    16. LA

      I mean, I imagine saying to my mom as a kid, "I'm bored," and I don't think that even, like, registered to her. [laughs]

    17. BE

      [laughs] "What am I gonna do about that?"

    18. LA

      Right. Like-

    19. BE

      Yeah

    20. LA

      ... that's a you problem.

    21. BE

      Yeah. Yeah. And a little bit you're reclaiming that there's something in that that's helpful. It, it is a little bit of our kid's problem. At least it's not, it's not our problem.

    22. LA

      It's not our problem to solve. There are ways that we can support it.

    23. BE

      Mm.

    24. LA

      And I think that's also really helpful as a parent, right?

    25. BE

      Yes.

  7. 7:02 – 9:07

    Play pockets: setting the environment without creating the entertainment

    1. LA

      Because, you know, for me, when my kids come in and say, like, "I'm bored," and, you know, and I feel very confident saying, "Go be bored somewhere else," because I know that in my home I have set up what I like to call play pockets. Um, I lo- I, I know that they have, there are toys and materials. There are spaces for them to read and be comfortable. They can go outside. I'm very lucky. You know, there are ways for them to entertain themselves. They might not like it.

    2. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    3. LA

      It might be uncomfortable getting from point A to point B, but I know I've done my job. You know, have you eaten? Yes. Okay. Have we connected today? Okay, yes. Are there options available to you for you to make into what you need? Yes. Well, once those things are met, in my mind, I'm like, "Okay, now this really is-

    4. BE

      Mm

    5. LA

      ... like, a you problem to figure out."

    6. BE

      Yeah. Okay, I wanna go through those, some of those things. I actually wanna start with the last thing. Tell me about the difference between, as a parent, I'm hearing you say this, "Have I done my job of kind of making sure there's things set up that you could use?" The difference between that and, I don't know, doing the activity, or being in charge of delivering the fun. Can you differentiate those?

    7. LA

      Absolutely, because when I say, you know, "Are there things for them to do," I do not mean a craft, or a project, or a new toy-

    8. BE

      Mm

    9. LA

      ... that I am now gonna sit with you and do, right? [laughs] I do, I mean actually the opposite of that, right?

    10. BE

      Yeah.

    11. LA

      Because I think what happens for a lot of parents is they're like, "Okay, play, independent play. I need to set up this beautiful sensory bin," or, "We are gonna make this project that I saw on Instagram and everyone in the family looked so happy doing it together." And then we go to do it in reality, and what happens? Everyone's grumpy. The ki- You have now spent time, money, energy. You got excited-

    12. BE

      Yeah

    13. LA

      ... and your kid engages for two minutes.

    14. BE

      Yeah.

    15. LA

      And then they're bored again-

    16. BE

      Yeah

    17. LA

      ... and you're burnt out.

    18. BE

      Yes, and have less money, because-

    19. LA

      And, and then-

    20. BE

      ... you just spent all this money

    21. LA

      ... you're like, "See? I, my kid can't play."

    22. BE

      That's exactly right.

  8. 9:07 – 10:27

    Use kids’ real interests to stock the environment (trucks, books, crayons)

    1. LA

      Right? When really, for me, when I think about, you know, setting up the environment for play, it means are there materials that reflect their life?

    2. BE

      Mm.

    3. LA

      Things that are interesting to them, right?

    4. BE

      Mm.

    5. LA

      So, you know, if you have a child who, say, is really into, I don't know, trucks.

    6. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    7. LA

      Are there trucks around, you know? Are there a few truck books? Are there, you know... Did we connect today? Maybe, you know, maybe I went to the supermarket with them, but instead of just, like, running through my to-do list in my head on the way there, I pointed out a couple trucks in the car on the way there, right?

    8. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    9. LA

      Said, "Wow, buddy," like, "Look at that one. What do you think about that one? What do you notice about that one?" Right?

    10. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    11. LA

      So we're putting them i- as the expert in their interest.

    12. BE

      Mm.

    13. LA

      Okay? So then, later, when they're bored, they have materials. You know, they have some toy trucks, or some toy books, or maybe some crayons and paper. Maybe they like to draw trucks. You know, whatever it is. Maybe they live in New York City and they can look out the window and draw the trucks they see.

    14. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    15. LA

      They get to decide that, right?

    16. BE

      Yeah.

    17. LA

      Because if you're sitting there saying, "Today we're gonna play about trucks, and we're gonna make this project that I saw online. And first we're gonna glue this. Nope, do it this way," that's, that's not them independent playing, right? That's, that's you just teaching them maybe a skill, but that's not how we're supporting boredom.

  9. 10:27 – 12:36

    Independent play as relationship data—and a lifelong skill builder

    1. BE

      And my guess is it doesn't give the parent the thing that they need over time, which is some amount of time when your kid can do something independently, but they're not on a screen.

    2. LA

      Yes.

    3. BE

      And this is not about screens, and I think you and I are similar-

    4. LA

      Yeah

    5. BE

      ... to the screen thing. That's fine, but I think every parent I know says, "It feels like either I have to give my kid an activity, or they're on a screen," when what I love what you talk about is independent play is, is a way to get out of that binary.

    6. LA

      Yes.

    7. BE

      Right? [laughs]

    8. LA

      Yes.

    9. BE

      So say more about that.

    10. LA

      And, you know, I think so much about how your work focuses so much on relationship building, right? Like, at the basis of everything, you're coming back to their relationship. And something I really want parents to understand about play, and independent play, is that when you support your child in play, and you value their play, and you take time to watch them and observe them in their play, you're gonna learn so much about, like, who is my child? What's interesting to them? What are they grappling with?

    11. BE

      Mm. Yeah, I have ideas.

    12. LA

      Yeah.

    13. BE

      I have things to teach other people.

    14. LA

      And that builds confidence-

    15. BE

      Mm

    16. LA

      ... and it gives them the confidence they need as a little one, you know, to start playing. But then as they're older, you know, I was recently having a conversation with someone who was saying, you know, college kids are really grappling with, you know, making small decisions. They're calling their parents for every reason. Like, you know, all of these things. And, and that makes me think back to I wonder if those kids had time to play, because I think that kind of resilience is really built on the living room floor at four.

    17. BE

      I, I, I know you and I see similarly about this, but I wanna, I wanna pull that out a little bit more, because sometimes that leap isn't so obvious-

    18. LA

      Mm-hmm

    19. BE

      ... to other people. Okay, so it's a kid playing with trucks, or maybe a kid who likes to draw freeform.

    20. LA

      Yeah.

    21. BE

      Whatever it is.

    22. LA

      Mm.

    23. BE

      And then we're talking about a college kid who can decide which class to register when they can only pick one, or, you know, wants to know, "Do I talk to my teacher about this, or, or do I wait?" Whatever the decisions are. Zoom out from what's happening on the floor that you share often with parents about where play is play, but also it's so much more.

    24. LA

      Yeah.

    25. BE

      So can you, can you just explain that a little more?

  10. 12:36 – 18:22

    Be a mirror, not an entertainer: scaffolding without doing the work

    1. LA

      Yeah, I would love to. So, you know, our kids, especially, I mean, I think about, you know, the parents whose kids are two, three, four, five, like the ones who are really still learning those independent play skills, right? Think of they don't have a lot of autonomy in their life, right? But play, play is a place where kids can create their own world, right? It is one of the only places that they get to make the decisions. They get to decide what happens and when in the game, right?

    2. BE

      Yep.

    3. LA

      And oftentime, as parents, we feel it's our job to play with them, and, and instead of playing with them, we become the entertainer, right?

    4. BE

      Mm.

    5. LA

      Suddenly we're calling the shots. We're making the duck do this. And instead, I really wanna help parents step back from that. And I'm not saying don't play with your kid. I think that's like a huge misnomer, right? You can play with your kid, but think of your role as less entertainer and more mirror, more person who says like-

    6. BE

      Mm

    7. LA

      ... "This is your world."

    8. BE

      Yeah.

    9. LA

      "You get to make the call. I'm just here reflecting that back to you."

    10. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    11. LA

      Right? And that's how our kids build those decision-making skills. They become people who are like, "I have ideas that matter. I can make a mistake, and the world doesn't explode. It's okay," right? And the more they can do that over time, over years, they learn that resilience. It's okay to make a mistake.

    12. BE

      Yeah. So I'm gonna get it one more level concrete, and tell me this is, you know, an example that resonates. So I'm building with blocks, Magna-Tiles, whatever it is, as a kid, and I think often as a parent, we watch, and we think, "Ooh, steady that foundation. It's gonna fall." And now, listen, anyone who says that, let me just be clear, you've not traumatized your kid. Your kid's gonna be fine.

    13. LA

      [laughs]

    14. BE

      Okay? Like, it is not too late, and it's not too late because it's no big deal. We've all said those things, okay? So we're talking about patterns, not-

    15. LA

      Yes

    16. BE

      ... right?

    17. LA

      Yes.

    18. BE

      And we're actually talking about giving parents freedom to do so much less, okay? This is a good thing for parents, and it's never too late to experiment with a little shift. But I think about the difference between that versus either saying nothing, I don't know, the tower falls, my kid even gets upset, and I say like, "Ugh, tower fell." Or I, I usually do this thing around my kids called, like, the wondering face. And I'm like, "I wonder why that fell. Hmm." Almost I felt like it created a, like, wonder container, but I didn't do the wonder filling of the container. I don't know. Does that make sense?

    19. LA

      Yes.

    20. BE

      I don't know.

    21. LA

      And you, you didn't do the work.

    22. BE

      Mm-hmm.

    23. LA

      You didn't do the work. You just put out the scaffolding-

    24. BE

      Yes

    25. LA

      ... for the work.

    26. BE

      Yes.

    27. LA

      Right? And so, you know, oftentimes, like, we can get in there and be like, "Well, if you just do it this way or build it up here," again, we're going back to being that entertainer. We're, we're reflecting it back on me.

    28. BE

      Yeah.

    29. LA

      But over time, when you have a kid, right, who can build the tower, it falls, then they get to decide, "Am I going to build it again? Am I going to melt down?" Because that's fine, too.

    30. BE

      Mm-hmm.

  11. 18:22 – 20:29

    Two paths when an elementary-age kid says “I’m bored” (fixing vs. connecting)

    1. LA

      I mean, I understand a lot of times when kids say, "I'm bored," our immediate thing is to start listing. It, it's either, "You have all those toys. You have all those toys, and now you're gonna tell me you're bored," right? So there's that, like, resentment thing. Okay? Or we're gonna say, "Okay, well, we could do this, we could do this, we can go here, we can do that."

    2. BE

      Yep.

    3. LA

      "Yep, we can do that." Or they are gonna do that thing, right, where they say, "I- then I'm gonna give you some chores." You know?

    4. BE

      [laughs] Like a punishment.

    5. LA

      We've all kind of done that.

    6. BE

      Yep.

    7. LA

      Like, I've definitely done that.

    8. BE

      I'll give you things to do.

    9. LA

      Yeah, I'll give you things to do.

    10. BE

      [laughs]

    11. LA

      Um, but I, you know, I think instead, if we can go back to that scaffolding and saying, like, "Hmm, you are bored, and you do have a whole day ahead of you. You're not really used to that. Let's think back for a minute. What's something you did last time you were bored? I remember on Saturday when you were building, and you were, you know, creating this structure, and you were really upset to stop building because we had to leave for the birthday party."

    12. BE

      Hmm.

    13. LA

      "Do you want me to help you think through what you were working on? Maybe you'll wanna do that again, or maybe you'll come up with a new idea."

    14. BE

      Yeah.

    15. LA

      I really like to think of, you know, "I'm bored, I don't know what to do" more as a bid for connection-

    16. BE

      Hmm

    17. LA

      ... and less as give me something to do.

    18. BE

      Love that. So if you lead with a connection, "Ugh, I hate when I'm bored, too," or "Ugh, I have those times at the end of the day," or "Ugh, that's a hard feeling," and then you kind of wonder with your kid, or, "Do you want me to help you remember?" you're more setting them up to be the type of person who can take initiative-

    19. LA

      Right

    20. BE

      ... rather than when you see the "I'm bored" after school as my problem to fix. I think this is something that happens to parents a lot. We lock ourselves into the roles we don't want. I don't want my kid to always come to me. It's so annoying, right? Like, they're always coming to me. Why can't they be more independent?

    21. LA

      And it is. It is annoying.

    22. BE

      And it is annoying.

    23. LA

      [laughs]

    24. BE

      But sometimes I think there's a reality check. It's like, well, every time my kid is bored, I do fix it for them. So- [laughs]

    25. LA

      So I-

    26. BE

      I guess, yeah, I guess I am locking myself-

    27. LA

      Yeah

    28. BE

      ... into being entertainer of the year, even though I'm kind of resentful of being-

    29. LA

      Yes

    30. BE

      ... entertainer for the year.

  12. 20:29 – 24:30

    Reconnecting after independent play: reinforcing “I noticed you” and “you’ve got this”

    1. LA

      Right? Because the other piece for parents is, you know, that when you are the entertainer, you are on 24/7, and when you remove that job from your description, you actually have a lot more time back for yourself, so that you can show up as the person you wanna be. And also, you feel more connected to your child. You really do. You know, oftentimes people will say, "Gosh, you know, Lizzie, I, I did everything you said to do, and my kid, my kid actually loves playing alone now, and I feel kind of guilty," right? And I think when that happens, they're missing that piece of reconnecting after, right?

    2. BE

      Hmm.

    3. LA

      And so really taking that time. Like, what did my kid end up doing when they were bored? And this is, you know, great at any age, is to go back and say, at the end of the day, "Hey, remember this morning when you came to me? You were so bored. You didn't know what to do. We thought it through. I saw that you built this. I would love to hear more about that when you're ready." You know, we're not saying, "What did you build?"

    4. BE

      Yep.

    5. LA

      "Show me..." We're not... "Whenever you're ready" or, "I heard those baby dolls crying in the playroom. I wonder what they were sad about."

    6. BE

      Hmm.

    7. LA

      You know, we're not questioning them that they have to tell you, but we just want them to know, like, you noticed. "I noticed you playing," right?

    8. BE

      Yeah.

    9. LA

      And so then we're doing two things. One, we're saying, "Your play really matters. I notice you, your, and your ideas, and also, you've got this. Like, you did that. You had a problem. We thought it through together, and you, and you worked it out."

    10. BE

      Yeah.

    11. LA

      And that really reinforces to them for the next time, and the next time. And then they really become-

    12. BE

      Mm

    13. LA

      ... that kid who's like, "I don't wanna go with you to wherever, because I've got a great idea to play with my Magna-Tiles." They become those kids who race home after school with a really good idea of something that they need paper and tape to work out.

    14. BE

      Yep. Yeah. And I'm thinking of as our kids get older, and I know you have older kids. I've, you know, kind of right in the middle, where I think about, you know, our kids always forgetting their water bottle, and these patterns, there are so many extensions of them that don't explicitly have to do with play, and the difference between every day, "Here's your water bottle. Here's your water bottle," even though I'm thinking, "I don't wanna be my kid's water bottle remember when he's 18," right? Even though I keep doing that, versus, "Hey, you keep forgetting your water bottle. I wonder what you would need on the wall or somewhere in our house to remember." And I think that binary is something you, y- you explain so well around boredom and play and these skills, where it's really the binary of fixing our kid's problem or creating a container for them to solve their own problems, and the benefits of that. Like, when you're no longer your kid's water bottle rememberer, you do have more time to talk to them about different things, 'cause you're, [laughs] you're not running around your house and depleted all the time.

    15. LA

      And you end up with a kid who knows deep down, "I can be in charge of my water bottle."

    16. BE

      Yes.

    17. LA

      "And if I forget, and if... You know, it's still okay."

    18. BE

      Yes.

    19. LA

      Like, it's not the end of the world, or maybe my teacher is annoyed at me because I forgot my violin, and that's okay, too, because I can learn how to advocate for myself.

    20. BE

      Yeah.

    21. LA

      And it's not in the way of saying to your kid, "Well, you forgot, so now you deal with it." It's not like that. It's saying, like, "Gosh, you know, you did forget your violin. Ca- is there a way I can support you to remember your violin?"

    22. BE

      Yes.

    23. LA

      Right?

    24. BE

      Yes.

    25. LA

      And also saying, "How did you manage that?"

    26. BE

      Yeah.

    27. LA

      You know, like, "What did that feel like for you?"

    28. BE

      Yeah. Yeah.

    29. LA

      Right? You're in it with them. You're walking next to them, and that's what I want parents to understand about play. You walk next to them in figuring it out, but it belongs to them.

    30. BE

      Mm.

  13. 24:30 – 30:46

    Making the shift with older kids: remove barriers, expect pushback, build conviction

    1. BE

      Yeah. So I'm thinking about the parents listening who says, "This, okay, this, this all resonates, and my kid isn't two or five anymore, and they're constantly looking for me for entertainment. How do I, you know, how do I shift the front of the ship a little bit?"

    2. LA

      Mm-hmm.

    3. BE

      What are some things, knowing the whining, the protests, the "you used to do this for me" is kind of coming, coming their way.

    4. LA

      I would be really upfront with, say, my seven-year-old, right? I am your partner in this. Like, let's figure this out together, right? Every day you keep coming home, and, you know, I'm, I work from home, and, and I'm working, and you come in, and you really want to go on the iPad, 'cause you're not sure what to do. And like, I get that, right? 'Cause sometimes when I don't know what to do, I go on my phone, right? So like, I get that. Right? So right there we're not saying like, "You're bad-

    5. BE

      Yes

    6. LA

      ... for coming to me," or, "You, you should know what to do." We're not saying that. We're saying like, "I see you. I get it. Like, it happens to me, too."

    7. BE

      Yeah.

    8. LA

      Right? And then I would say, "And, and I really wanna help you make a change in this, because there's a lot of afternoons that could feel really good. You have so many good ideas. There's so many important things about you that you deserve time to work on, and I wanna help you work on those, right?"

    9. BE

      Yeah.

    10. LA

      "So let's think about like what kind of things would you, if you were in charge in the afternoon, what would you be doing?" You know? And really, and even if it gets like crazy and fantastical, you're not gonna jump in with, "Well, no, we can't do that becau-" You're really gonna go to that place with them.

    11. BE

      Let them go. Mm-hmm.

    12. LA

      Right? Like, let them fantasize about it, because it's a window for you to see in, right? And then does that mean you have to go out and buy 50 craft kits [laughs] and say yes to the iPad? No. But it does mean that you're gonna say, "Okay, like, it sounds like you really like art, you know? And, you know, we have a lot of markers and stuff in the cabinet, but, you know, they are kinda hard to get to. And when you do try to pull down the paper, everything comes crashing down." So, you know, that is what I like to call a barrier to play, right? So for me as an adult, I'm not gonna see it as my job to go out and buy materials. I am gonna see it as my job to remove the barrier to them getting started.

    13. BE

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    14. LA

      So that might mean, "Let's try a thing. Tomorrow when you come home, I'm gonna put out on the table just like some paper and some of those markers that you got for your birthday last year, and maybe some stickers. Like, what kind of stickers do you think like we have that... You know, and I'm gonna put those out on the table and have a snack with them," right? I'm gonna connect with them-

    15. BE

      Yeah

    16. LA

      ... before I ask them to do something on their own.

    17. BE

      Yep. And so first of all, I just love that step by step. And the other thing I wanna add is your kid won't come home and say, "This is such a better afternoon than the iPad."

    18. LA

      No. [laughs] Yeah.

    19. BE

      "Thank you for that setup. I love this invitation to play." They will not.

    20. LA

      Mm-mm.

    21. BE

      I feel like most kids, if they're not used to that, will whine.

    22. LA

      They will.

    23. BE

      Or they'll just say, "I have an idea. You could just let me be on my iPad."

    24. LA

      Yeah.

    25. BE

      "What do I wanna do? Be on my iPad all day."

    26. LA

      Yeah.

    27. BE

      And it's so important not to see that as a failure, but as a actually totally predictable step.

    28. LA

      Yes.

    29. BE

      Right? Like, if I was in a stage of eating, like, I don't know, just Kit Kats and Reese's every day as my snack, and I was like, "I wanna make a shift. This isn't like so great for my long-term energy," whatever, and I had, I don't know, whatever else out, like I can't expect that I'd be like, "Oh, I'm so happy for these carrots and hummus." No, of course not.

    30. LA

      No.

  14. 30:46 – 36:13

    Hook play to what they already love (shows/games) + rapid-fire principles and takeaways

    1. LA

      Right? And so something that's really helpful for parents is to, before you make this shift, take a day or two and just jot down, you know, what does my kid talk about a lot? Even if it's, like, their favorite TV show-

    2. BE

      Yeah

    3. LA

      ... that counts.

    4. BE

      Yeah.

    5. LA

      Their favorite video game, that counts.

    6. BE

      Right. Yeah.

    7. LA

      Right? And so how can I support their interest in whatever I'm offering them, right? Because that is sort of a path-

    8. BE

      Yes

    9. LA

      ... and a way in, instead of just giving them something blank and saying, "Go for it," right?

    10. BE

      Which I panic about.

    11. LA

      Right. So instead, I might set, you know, like, if I have a kid, parents who say, like, "Well, my kid doesn't build with blocks, and I'm not gonna sit there, you know, with these little wooden blocks," and, and I'm like, "You're right, they're not."

    12. BE

      Right.

    13. LA

      They're not.

    14. BE

      Right.

    15. LA

      But if you're gonna give them some wooden blocks with their favorite Bluey figures-

    16. BE

      Yeah

    17. LA

      ... or something that is connected to them, something they're already thinking about-

    18. BE

      That's right

    19. LA

      ... something that's important to them, and they can work those themes out in real life, that's how you're gonna hook them in, right?

    20. BE

      That's right, and this is where the lack of rigidity is helpful. So many times what our kids are interested in, in an online game or a show, can give us insight into the very areas they can play more independently.

    21. LA

      Yes.

    22. BE

      So I, I love that bridge.

    23. LA

      I mean, my daughter, who's 12 now, when she was little, she was obsessed with PAW Patrol, okay? I mean obsessed, right? And that didn't mean I went out and bought every PAW Patrol tower and toy and whatever, but you know what I did do? I invested in a lot of those little mini PAW Patrol figurines, and we brought those everywhere.

    24. BE

      Yep.

    25. LA

      They came in the playroom, because they paired so well with her. They gave her an in.

    26. BE

      Great.

    27. LA

      Right? To build.

    28. BE

      That's right.

    29. LA

      To play, to draw. They gave her something to talk about when she felt awkward at a family function.

    30. BE

      Yep.

Episode duration: 36:13

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