Jordan Chiles on Pressure, Identity, and Competing at the Olympics | Good Inside with Dr. Becky

1. 0:00 – 2:32

   Series setup: The Playbook’s focus on mindset, pressure, and the person beyond the sport

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:00

      This is The Playbook, a limited series by Good Inside in partnership with Nike. I'm going to be talking to some of the most successful athletes of our time, leaders who have had real impact in their sport, and I'm gonna be talking with them about their highs, about their lows, about their mindset, about team dynamics, about what really motivates them, about the way they talk to themselves and recover from difficult stages. And I also have some of my favorite moments with these athletes where we talk about their life off the field, their early years, their family life, the things that keep them grounded, their rituals and superstitions that keep them going. We cover so much in every conversation. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. So growing up, I was a gymnast. Now, to be clear, I maxed out on level seven. I was pretty average, but gymnastics was a pretty big part of my life, and I just think there's something about gymnastics that stays with you, like the discipline, the focus. Your body learns how to keep going when you're tired, when you're struggling. You kind of have to center in your body, so you develop a type of awareness and self-trust. And I think today's conversation really is especially meaningful to me because it makes me go back to those early years where I spent so much time in the gym. Now, I am joined by a not at all average gymnast. I am joined today by Jordan Chiles, a two-time Olympic gymnast medalist and a world champion, and she has competed on some of the biggest stages in the world. From the outside, Jordan is known for her power, her precision, the joy she brings, and she's also known for being a true teammate. She is someone who shows up for others, who competes with heart, who brings such a sense of humanity to such an elite sport. Today, I wanna look with you at the inside story, how Jordan learned how to handle pressure and expectation and recovery, how she formed her identity, not only as a gymnast. And I am so excited to share that in this conversation we are also joined by her mom, Gina, and they talk a lot about her early years. Gina shares about parenting, things she's learned the hard way along the way, and you also just get a peek into their incredible relationship. Whether you're raising a kid who's involved in intense sports or whether you're just raising a kid and you're thinking about how they form their

2. 2:32 – 3:58

   Jordan’s early energy and finding the right outlet (before gymnastics)

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:32

      identity, what really matters, how to help them follow their dreams and bounce back from hard moments, I promise you, you are going to get so much from this conversation, and you might want a tissue or two because there are some real tearjerker, heartfelt moments. Jordan, can you kind of start, can you take me back to your early years, what you were like as a young kid, how you kind of came to find gymnastics?

   2. JCJordan Chiles2:59

      Yeah. I mean, um, obviously, I didn't start gymnastics at a typical young age. Um, I did sports before. I played T-ball. I knew how to hit a home run, but in the outfield it was more of just picking dandelions and doing cartwheels. And so I was the type of child that was like, you know, couldn't sit anywhere, couldn't do literally not one thing without having to move. I couldn't talk without moving, couldn't eat without moving. Like, I just had a lotta energy, and so my parents thought it was a good idea that, you know, let's, let's put her in a sport that is active, very, very active, and see, um, how that goes. So I definitely didn't think it was gonna be a sport that I was gonna be stuck with for the rest of my life, but, um-

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:43

      [laughs] Really didn't turn out well for you. You know-

   4. JCJordan Chiles3:46

      Yeah, not at all

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:46

      ... you really got stuck there

   6. JCJordan Chiles3:47

      ... not at all. Um, but you know, gymnastics was, wasn't my first thing that I did, but obviously it's been my last, so, um, I'm happy that my, my parents saw that in me.

3. 3:58 – 6:27

   Gina’s parenting lens: reframing ‘too much energy’ into a strength

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:58

      You know, Gina, I, I actually wanna zoom in with you to that parenting moment because there are so many things in our kids that I think can be looked at in two ways. One is, what is wrong with my child? Why can't my kid behave in the outfield or in class or in a music group, whatever it is? Why can't my kid behave like everyone else? And a different framework for the same moment could be, hold on, is there something spiky, exceptional, very them here, and can I help them channel it? And so I'm just curious if you go to that moment, there can be shame as a parent. I remember, I was like, "Why is my kid the only one, you know, not able to stay in center field?" And it seems like you, you saw something and you looked to kind of take down the channel this route instead of the [laughs] what is wrong with my daughter route. So I wonder if you could bring us there.

   2. GCGina Chiles4:48

      We knew she had a lotta energy, and other people, uh, pointed it out probably more than we did. Uh, in, in particular with, you know, the kids' basketball game, she's supposed to be sitting, um, with us, and she just can't. She's... She wants to be doing cartwheels down, you know, uh, on the floor. And, um, somebody had come to us and they were like, "Oh, wow, she, you know, she, uh... How long has she been in gymnastics? She looks, um, like, you know, she's doing great." And we're just laughing 'cause she's never spent a moment in gymnastics at that point. She was just full of energy. Um, we knew she needed an outlet, and the crazy thing is, is that, um, uh, there's a, a little story behind this. My [laughs] my husband, um, he stayed home with the kids. I had a, a work trip, and when I came back, literally flew in, he picked me up from the airport, and he looked at me and he said, "We gotta, we gotta do something. We have to do, [laughs] we have to do something." She was off the walls. Um, and, uh, and we just knew she needed some kinda focus. And, uh, track was, was good. Uh, T-ball was only good while she was active and definitely not when she was in the outfield. It... We kind of laughed it off. We didn't, we didn't wanna make her feel like something was off or wrong. We just knew we needed to give her some type of outlet, um, and then, you know, burn off that energy. [laughs] And so my husband was like, "How about we take her to that place that everybody's been telling us about?" Um, so we did, and literally was eight minutes from the house. Uh, took her just so she could get her energy out, and, uh- And then the story continues from there.

4. 6:27 – 8:59

   Joy to intensity: realizing a gift—and what started to dim the fun

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:27

      And she did, and she did take that energy out. Um, and Jordan, I could hear when you were talking about gymnastics early on, you started it, it, it was not, there was no pressure right away. It wasn't like, "We're putting you in this program." It was like, "Here, this might be good for all this energy." I'd love to hear from you as you went through some of those early years. I think a lot about how when people get good at something and get serious, it can almost be hard to preserve the joy and the ebullience. [laughs] Um, I- I'm curious how those two things went for you as you went on.

   2. JCJordan Chiles6:58

      When I was younger, I thought I was a superhero. Um, our parents, I, I know it's kinda crazy to say, but our parents told us when they were, when we were younger that they were superheroes. So when I went into gymnastics, I was like, "Oh, maybe they gave me their superpowers," you know? I think as a little kid, you know, you always have this, uh, um, this ability to really look into what you're trying to do and always have joy in it because you're like, "Wait, I don't have to do this for the rest of my life. I'm just having fun with it. I get to go, I get to jump, I get to do all those things." Um, because again, it was like an outlet to me. Like, I would, you know, it was like, okay, maybe I'll get an, a, a reward after. Like, maybe it's something that, you know, my parents will be proud of me, that I'm actually focusing in school. Like, that's how I was seeing it because it was something that I needed in order to take tests, in order to, you know, actually listen to my teacher. So that joy was always there. I always had fun. I started to realize at the age of about 11 or 12 years old, when I started to realize I actually have a talent and gift at this. Yes, I loved winning because I'm competitive. I get it from my parents. Yes, I loved the ribbons and the medals and standing on a podium, and that's what I was doing since I was seven years old. But by the time I was 12, I was like, "Wait, I actually have something in this." Like, I actually am very gifted and talented at this. Like, nobody does this every day where they can just wake up and do flips on a four-inch piece of wood. Like, I don't, you know, people don't get to swing from the uneven bars or even flip on a hardwood floor. Like, those things aren't typical that people do, so maybe I do have a talent and a gift, and this can actually take me to the next level. So that joy started to fade as I got older, obviously, because it started to get more intense, and it started to get more, you know, actually into, wait, your dream can actually come true. Like, this is something that you can fulfill and actually become somebody and make a name for yourself. At a young age, I knew I was gonna become an entertainer, and I knew

5. 8:59 – 11:02

   Protecting identity and joy amid harmful coaching and pressure

   1. JCJordan Chiles8:59

      I was gonna be somebody. I have Pinterest boards. I had all those things. I was telling my mom, like, I would put dress-up clothes on with the fashion, like, all those things. I knew I was gonna become somebody. I just didn't know how. So when my sport started to make me realize that, that's when I was like, "Wait, we actually have to work. We actually have to do the job in order to get to where we need to go." So that joy, yes, started to die, um, but obviously there are, you know, stories that come along with that. I was, you know, emotionally abused. I was verbally abused by a coach, you know. I had things that I went through. I didn't, I didn't know in that time, but as I got older, obviously I did. You know, I saw, I saw it, and, um, I had to fight through those moments. I had to really, you know, put myself in a position to where I could look back and be like, you know what? Did she get me to a point to where I was able to now go to the next level and fulfill something? Yes, she did, but the things that came along with it weren't right. That's not how coaches should be. That's not how any of, you know, the things should have gone. But I try to keep as much joy in my life as possible, and that's where my schooling came into play. I went to public school, and that was the one thing I told my parents. I was like, "I need to go to public school because of everything that I'm going through in my sport. I need to go to a prom. I need to go to a win-" so that's what my parents made sure that I was capable of doing because I didn't want to grow up in a way of being like, you know what? I regret everything that I did. Don't feel confident and comfortable of becoming an Olympian because it wasn't how I wanted to do it. So it was like all those things came into play, and that's where that joy was. My support system was my joy, all those things. So younger self, oh, we had joy all the time. But that mid-teen, you know, self, the joy started fading, but I had an- another outlet that I could bring that joy still and make sure that I was still fulfilling everything.

6. 11:02 – 13:41

   Gina’s ‘aha’ moment: competitiveness, podiums, and a standout trajectory

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:02

      So important. Gina, do you remember the moment when you were like, "Oh, this is more than my daughter getting her energy out. Like, this, there is really something here," you know? Do, d- can you, can you share one of them?

   2. GCGina Chiles11:17

      Yeah, definitely. Um, I didn't, didn't know gymnastics. Gymnastics wasn't in our wheelhouse at all. Um, none of us are gymnasts. Uh, my husband, myself, I'm actually the least flexible person in the world. So, like, all of that was, uh, it was foreign to me. Um, and you know, like, my eyes were kind of leaning and kind of pushing her towards the track route. Um, she's extremely fast, and I still tell her to this day, like, "We could do this," like, "Let's go." Um, but, uh, but her, her heart and her [laughs] her heart really just led her through, um, gymnastics and all of the, um, the craziness that comes along with it. Um, so I was always asking other people, like, you know, like, "Hey, I don't wanna continue to pay this monthly fee." I know that's hilarious, but that was our thought pattern. Like, this monthly fee's crazy. We don't wanna keep paying it if she's not that good. And, um, my brother kept assuring us that, like, no, she's actually good. And, um, that first year that she was in it, we didn't tell her about scores. We didn't tell her about, like, you know, the ins and outs of gymnastics because she was having so much fun. We were like, "This is, this is great." Like, it's getting the energy out. Um, she's doing better [laughs] at sitting and paying attention. Um, and she's just having so much fun. But Jordan, uh, just is a naturally competitive person. Um, and she started to see other kids, um, on the podium, and she came and asked us, like, you know, "Why? Why am, why are they not calling my name?" And keep in mind, this is the very first year that she's in competitive gymnastics, and it broke our heart to, you know, that we had to have that conversation because she was having so much fun, and we didn't want it to change into something different. And so we told her, and the minute we told her, that was it. Um, I don't think there was ever a podium Jordan wasn't standing on. And, um, and it just became, it became evident at that time, I would say level five, um, Jordan laughing at the top of the podium, and I looked at her and I'm like, "Wait, this is something. This is something a little bit different." And she was l- she was literally, I think s- gosh, she was maybe seven and a half years old when we realized that she had something special.

7. 13:41 – 15:27

   Tokyo 2021: the shock of a fall, identity collapse, and ‘I failed everyone’

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy13:41

      Jordan, I wanna transition a little. Uh, uh, we'll hear about a lot of your successes. We all have seen amazing success, and I think what we often miss, and right? No one's life, no one athletic's career is up and to the right at every moment, right? [laughs] And so I'm wondering if you could take us to a specific routine or competition where, where something didn't go the way you wanted it to.

   2. JCJordan Chiles14:05

      I think the biggest one was probably Tokyo 2021. I went into Tokyo being the only person who hit 24 for 24 routines prior to making the Olympic team, and my goal was like, "Okay, I'm the consistency queen." Like, "I'm gonna go out there and do everything that I need to do." Well, that didn't go as planned. Tokyo, beam was up, and it just went into pieces. I fell, and I literally was just like, "I had this in the bag." Like, I was the only person who was consistent this whole entire year, and then you go onto the biggest stage of your life and you mess up. Like, come on now. Like, I felt so out of pocket. Like, it just did not feel right. I felt like I failed the whole entire world because it was my first Olympics and it was on the biggest stage of my life, and it was literally the craziest... Like, I think I called my mom after qualifications and said, "There's no point of me being on this team. I failed everybody." I just, you know, I went through a, literally I felt like I went through a midlife crisis and I was only 19 years old. Like, everything in my world just felt like it went dark.

8. 15:27 – 20:52

   Gina’s response under pressure: validating pain, rejecting ‘failure,’ and insisting she finish

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:27

      Gina, can you take me to that moment, to that, the first time you talked to Jordan after, you know, when she, she opened up to you? Yeah, what, what's going on for you?

   2. GCGina Chiles15:35

      Yeah. It was probably the hardest moment that, that I've had to deal with because I've never... You know, we've, we have been, um, crazy to tell our, our kids that every single thing that you ever desire, your dreams can come true. And, and, you know, we, people would kind of put us on the spot and say, "You're setting them up for failure," and, um, we just didn't pay them any mind because we truly, truly believed in our heart that if it's something that you want, and you work hard for it, um, that, that these things will come. Um, but what we never faked was, uh, that there's gonna be disappointments along the way, and then you have choices that you have to make whether wh- you wanna continue forward. Um, one thing I never had heard out of her mouth ever was the word failure. And so sh- you know, it's like 3:00 in the morning 'cause, you know, it was during COVID. They didn't allow families or anyone, spectators, to go to the Olympics. She's in Tokyo, so we're on different time zones. The entire family, um, is up watching. Um, it, there's c- you know, cameras that are, uh, in the room because they're trying to capture our reaction. And, uh, and, and I know Jordan said beam, but it was actually bars. Um, she went up on a, an event which she had actually hit, um, all the ti- like, I, 24 for 24 is just unheard of, and when that phone rang, like, cry- she was crying immediately, which of course, like, hit me through to my soul. Like, it was just so hard because it is the biggest stage and, and, and you had other people who are depending on you, and the first thing that came out of her mouth was, "Mom, I failed. I'm a failure." And she just kept saying it over and over again. And I was like, "No. You are an Olympian." Like, "You have made it to that, y- out of everyone, out of the thousands and thousands and thousands of gymnasts who, who have given everything that they've, just like you have, you're one of four people to stand up there and, and compete for the United States." Like, I just kept trying to tell her, like, "Y- I, I don't ever wanna hear you say that, never ever. You are not a failure. This is a success. This is a moment that you feel like you have let people down, but you have not let us down because we could care less what it, [laughs] what happens after today. You have given everything that you can for your team and your dream, and, uh, you are still Jordan Chiles. You are still Jordan Chiles. You are not a failure." And then, you know, she just, she just stayed in that moment, and I was like, "What do I do?" And I remember my oldest daughter after two weeks at college saying, "I wanna come home" [laughs] and you're devastated and you want them to come home because you, you know, you, you miss them, but you know that that is not an option, and that just came to my head, and I told her, I said, "Jordan, there are team finals that are still coming. You're, you have, you're, you have to be there for your team. This is what you signed up for. You pull yourself together." And you be there for your team. This doesn't have to be the end of everything. 'Cause she was asking for us to put her on a t- on a flight to fly home. Like, she was done. She goes, "I don't wanna be here. I am absolutely done." And we were like, "No, we are not gonna do that. You have to finish this job. This is why you're, you know, this is why you were there." It was the hardest thing to do because we wanted her to come home. We wanted to hug her. We wanted to tell her, "It's okay, everything's gonna be all right," but we knew she still had, had it in her. And, you know, then history, uh, is already written. We know what happened in those moments. Um, w- w- we were just as shocked, uh, during team finals. We had no idea what was going on. Keep in mind, the families are very close, and so we were like, "What is going on?" And we knew when Simone had pulled, we didn't understand why Jordan was chalking up. We were like, "Why is she putting on her grips?" Because we knew she wasn't, she wasn't going to do bars. We didn't understand what was happening, and then all of a sudden it just hit us, like, Jordan is going in on all four events.

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:52

      I truly have the chills. My heart just i- i- is so struck by this. And, and Gina, you know, you're, you're talking about, obviously, talking about the Olympics, high stakes. A lot of people listening here, they're not gonna be in that situation, but you are embodying honestly what I think is the bravest and most important act of love a parent can do for their kid in any situation, is to see their struggle and their pain and believe in them, is to believe in your kid when they in that moment cannot believe in themselves, and to see their pain as real, but to not collapse into it with them. Like, you have something in you. Like, you, Jordan, obviously you're one of the strongest human beings, and still I think, like we were saying, any human loses access to that in themselves some moments, and you need the people who care about you to see something in you that is a little bit clouded in that moment. And Gina, what you're saying, like I know as a parent who's never been in that situation, but others,

9. 20:52 – 22:46

   ‘More than a moment’: recovery, memory blur, and the path back to self

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:52

      like it, it takes everything as a parent, 'cause you just wanna rescue them and take them out and say, "Fine, let's kinda burn this to the ground and let's be comfortable together," and i- it's just so beautiful and inspiring. And then what happened from there, a- a- you know, i- it's, it's just, it, it's amazing. I, I, thank you so much for sharing that with such detail. I think it's just, it's so striking. I wanna ask you, Jordan, I, I don't know if this question's gonna make sense, so, so take it and let me know. You're a gymnast, but your mom said something interesting that struck me. Like, you are still Jordan Chiles, which I, I don't know if that's what you meant, Gina, but like, you, you're also someone who's more than any one thing, than, than any one routine, than any fall, than being 24 out of 25. That, that's, that's more than gymnastics period, and I'm curious how you navigated this. I feel like intense sports, when you spend so many hours doing something, it can be confusing. Like, it, who, am I, am I the thing? Am I anything else? Do I matter? [laughs] I don't know if that resonates. I'm curious what you have to say about that.

   2. JCJordan Chiles21:57

      Yeah. Um, before I, before I talk, Mom, it was on beam. I, I did fall into my face.

   3. GCGina Chiles22:04

      Yeah, you did.

   4. JCJordan Chiles22:05

      So was it two events that I fell on? 'Cause that's even crazier.

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy22:09

      [laughs]

   6. JCJordan Chiles22:10

      Wow, okay. Anyways, besides that, that's how they-

   7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy22:12

      No, but Jordan, let's stay with that for a second-

   8. JCJordan Chiles22:15

      [laughs]

   9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy22:15

      ... because isn't this so interesting? This wasn't 30 years ago, right? Obviously. But it's so interesting how a moment, and this is such a life lesson, a moment feels like everything. That's w- I, I have to go away. The moment feels like the whole truth of you and nothing of else will ever be true. And here you are, less than five years, I mean, it's not that long, and, and the details of it are murky. It's kind of amazing how much we recover and become more than a moment, but in the moment no one can tell you that that's gonna happen. You almost don't believe it, right?

10. 22:46 – 25:40

    Separating ‘Jordan the gymnast’ from ‘Jordan the human’: college, normal life, and self-expression

    1. JCJordan Chiles22:46

       No, exactly. That's why I was, uh, obviously that Olympics was, yes, it's still embedded in my head, but I guess I, you know, I take the, the good moments out of it and, you know, the last time I really had a talk about that moment was when I was writing my book, so it is crazy to know that. But I guess that kinda goes into your, your, your question that you asked about, you know, the Jordan Chiles the, the human and the Jordan Chiles the athlete. And my freshman year of college is when I was like, "Wait, this is life? Like, whoa, what is going on? Like, I actually can have school friends and I can, you know, go to the football games with my teammates. Like, I can go to basketball. Like, I can actually live a life. I can..." And I keep in mind, I live in, um, California, so I'm like over here. Like, I can go to Santa Monica. Like, I can do all these things and feel normal? Wow, this is great. I got treated just like a college student. I got told, "You have to go do this, you have to go do that," which I appreciated because that made me realize that my sport doesn't define who I am. Nothing can define who I am except for Jordan Chiles the human, the g- the girl that grew up knowing that she was gonna be an entertainer, having the support system, having the parents that she has, her siblings, all these things, and that was still within me. And that's where self-expression comes into play and that's why, you know, I did Dancing With The Stars, because that was another thing that I felt like I could have as an outlet to show the world there is more than just my sport to me. I can be an entertainer. I can, you know, I've wanted to dance ever since I was little, so I'm showing you that, and I can be anything I want to be. My parents taught us, if you have a goal and if you have something that you wanna do, go do it. Now, will it take you a while to get there? Maybe. Obviously, obviously for me it did because I, you have to be a certain age to be, you know, at the Olympic Games and all that. So yes, it did take me a while. But do I regret anything? No. Now, do I wish things could s- change in that path? Maybe so. But at the end of the day, I learned so much about myself That I was like, you know what? When I go into my 20s now, how can I separate the two? I don't talk-- And that was the one thing I told my mom. I, ev- And she, she doesn't like this because she always wants to talk about my sport. And the moment I told her, I was like, "Yo, I'm at home. I do not wanna talk about this anymore." Having that mindset of understanding gymnastics is in the gym. The moment I walk out, I'm Jordan. Um, you can call me Jo, you can call me, you can, you can do whatever. Th- Great. That's, that's that Jordan. But then I have this other Jordan that is dominant, that is confident, that is resilient, that is, you know, beautiful, dynamic gymnast that does her work when she needs to.

11. 25:40 – 29:58

    Parenting practices that protect the child’s dream (and reduce pressure at home)

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy25:40

       And Gina, what about for you when Jordan was growing up? How did you as her parent encourage this clear love for gymnastics, talent for the sport? And, you know, I'm guessing if that's the only focus of a parent, who's my parent, who's my coach, who's, you know, who am I to my parent, that can get, you know, stressful and burdensome too. So how did you think about that when Jordan was younger?

    2. GCGina Chiles26:03

       Yeah, it's crazy that Jordan brings that up because, um, that's probably the one, uh, thing parents come up to me and my husband all the time. They want like a roadmap. They wanna talk to us. How did it go? My kid is, is small now. And, and one of the very first thing that we tell them is, you know, like quick piece of advice, um, when they leave the gym, do not ask them about gymnastics. And it came because of that conversation that Jordan had with me because of course we wanna know, how did it go? How was everything there? Did you tumble? Did... You know, all of the details. And when they're little it's fine, right? Because they wanna tell you everything. As they start to grow, um, it's, uh, it starts to become a, a little bit annoying and, and, and then a lot of pressure because you're, they're in under pressure at gym, and then you're putting them under pressure when they get home. There needs to be that clear separation of when you get home, this is your free time. This is your time to be whatever you wanna be, do whatever you wanna do. Um, and then what we noticed is Jordan would start to come to us and tell us about her day because she wanted to, so we didn't have to ask her anymore. If there was something she needed to tell us about how her day went, she would bring us video, which she still does to this day, right? [laughs] Is that she'll show us, "Oh, guess what I did?" And she'll show us a video. So that, that is definitely one, um, it's interesting that she brought that up because that is the, the main piece of advice that we give to, um, to parents. The other thing is, um, is that, uh, to, to be aware, um, that this is their dream and to help them along the way when they forget that that is what they wanted, right? Because especially, um, you know, the people who may be listening to this, maybe their kid isn't an, an elite gymnast, but they are, uh, wanting to be, or they are very serious about their sport, or they're, uh, considering it. Um, but the, the most difficult thing is, um, when you start to want it more than the kid, that's one thing. And two, when the kid starts to forget that it was their idea, that this was something that they loved at some point. Because with gymnastics, Jordan, um, we knew. We could, we could start to tell, like something was, was a little bit off. And, uh, Jordan used to leave us little notes. Um, and she, she would never, um, she didn't really have the, the courage at that time to just come out and say what she was thinking. She would write a note, leave it on the, uh, counter downstairs, and then leave to school so that we would, you know, find it, and it would always be this big dramatic, you know, sequence. I hate it. I hate this sport. I hate everything about it. Um, because she was really struggling with the individual who she was, um, training under. And, um, and one of the things that we said is that nobody, no one, and, and this, this holds true for everything in life, no one can alter the direction that you're going in except for you. They don't, they don't have the right. They, [laughs] they have, they have no, uh, uh, uh, lawful right to change your direction. You have to allow them to do it or you have to want to do it. That is it. You either allow somebody... And so we'd always say you have to use these things as fuel to the fire, and remember that you actually love this. You love this sport, Jordan. You may not love the things that come with it and the experiences that you've had that are negative, but if you strip everything down, what do you want to do? And she would always come back and say, "Well, I wanna be an Olympian." And we're like, "All right, well, that's our focus. That's where we go. That's where we drive."

12. 29:58 – 32:21

    Mindset tools and mottos: self-motivation, affirmations, and ‘why’

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy29:58

       Jordan, I'm curious, you know, in a- in all your years, your training, how much did you focus on or did it come naturally on your mindset, how you talk to yourself, and of the psychology of all of it?

    2. JCJordan Chiles30:11

       I think the, the self-talk came from my experience from the time I was 17 till me moving to Texas. Um, I did go through a very, very rough patch during that time period to where really in r- all reality I, uh, you know, I was gonna be done. I told my parents, "I'm done with this. I don't wanna do it anymore." That's when the courage came to actually tell them and, you know, because of a certain individual. And so it wa- it came to a point to where I was like, you know what? Maybe I need to, you know, find a way to motivate myself instead of allowing everybody around me to continue to motivate me. Because it's like if you can't motivate yourself, then the emotions and the feelings that everybody's putting into you isn't really doing anything I started to really give myself, um, these mottos each and every year. Um, I just started, uh, you know, after Tokyo, and each motto had a meaning to it. And so, you know, from when those little myths, you know, Not Done Yet, to, um, Always Believe in the Power of Your Dreams, to even the one that is still going on now to I'm That Girl. And so all these affirmations, I started to realize they were helping me in a good way, but also impacting everybody else around me. How can I motivate myself into continuing on the path that I know that I'm capable of doing? I have a talent. I have a gift. What more can I give? That goes all back to what is my why? And my why basically is, you know, I can be that person that I was, you know, the caterpillar before you become the butterfly. Like, I wanted to be able to just allow the younger generation to understand that failure is okay, and that saying no is okay, and that using your voice is okay, and that allowing yourself to really be heard and be in your own shoes, in your own narrative, it is all okay. Being yourself, it is okay.

13. 32:21 – 38:06

    Rapid-fire closer: rituals, pride, repair, and advice for sports parents

    1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:21

       All right. I wanna end with a little rapid fire, like overtime. I know there's not really, like, an overtime in gymnastics, but bear with me. Okay. So Jordan, starting with you, superstition or ritual that you engage in around gymnastics?

    2. JCJordan Chiles32:35

       I didn't... Well, I say I didn't have one, but my parents said that I always had to have PF Chang, um, lettuce wraps before a meet.

    3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:45

       [laughs]

    4. JCJordan Chiles32:45

       That's kind of one, but I don't have any now. I don't- I'm not, like, a superstition person.

    5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:50

       Gina, what about you? Do you do something before Jor- Jordan's meets or before watching her, you know?

    6. GCGina Chiles32:55

       Yeah, I don't eat. I do the opposite.

    7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:58

       [laughs]

    8. GCGina Chiles32:58

       I can't. I get sick to my stomach. [laughs]

    9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy33:02

       All right. We got some superstitions and rituals around food. Um, all right. Jordan, a moment you're proud of.

    10. JCJordan Chiles33:07

        Does it have to be in gymnastics? I can do it in gym-

    11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy33:10

        Nope

    12. JCJordan Chiles33:10

        No? Okay.

    13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy33:11

        Yep. W-

    14. JCJordan Chiles33:11

        The moment I'm proud of-

    15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy33:12

        Answer as you will. [laughs]

    16. JCJordan Chiles33:13

        Okay. One moment that I'm proud of would probably be not allowing myself to quit at my weakest moments.

    17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy33:26

        Mm. So good. Gina, what about a moment, I mean, not that you're proud of for Jordan, I'm sure there's so many, a moment you're proud of how you handled it as a parent of this super, you know, this [laughs] Olympic athlete.

    18. GCGina Chiles33:41

        Uh, when we discovered that the relationship with her previous coach was, um, was not good, um, I apologized to my child because my one job was to protect her, and in that moment, um, she wasn't being protected. So it was a huge moment. We remember it very well. [laughs] We were in our car, and, um, pulled up to the driveway, didn't open the door, and I, I just told her, "I'm sorry," like, "I apologize," like, "That was my job."

    19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy34:14

        You know, I, I don't know if you know this, but at Good Inside, we say the most important parenting strategy in the world is repair, and I always tell parents we're so hard on ourselves about our struggles or our mistakes, but think about it. You can't get good at repair if you haven't messed up, which means it's more about the thing you do next than the thing, and I think you're just... Uh, that, that, that's so beautiful. Jordan, the thing you most appreciate about your relationship with your mom.

    20. JCJordan Chiles34:39

        Not doubting me in what imaginations that I had.

    21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy34:43

        Oh, good. And Gina, what do you most appreciate in your relationship with your daughter?

    22. GCGina Chiles34:47

        That she feels free to be real in conversation, and, um, I get a kick out of that.

    23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy34:54

        Something you would tell the parents listening if they have a kid in competitive sports.

    24. GCGina Chiles35:00

        Um, I think that it's important that you, um, read between the lines and that you listen. Um, we're so good at talking, giving advice, and, uh, over-, um, stating, you know, our intentions. I think it's important that we listen and, and really see. Sometimes, you know, we don't wanna see what we're seeing, and so we act like it's not there. But really see it and, and respond appropriately because ultimately, um, they're in your care, and you have to make those hard decisions. So just listen. Listen to what they're saying. Don't discount it.

    25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy35:36

        This, this conversation will stay with me for a very long time. Like, it lands on my heart. So this is so incredible to talk to the two of you. Your, uh... and to see your relationship, and I, I j- I'm blown away. So thank you. Thank you for everything you've given to the sport, to the country. Thank you for everything you've shared here. It's gonna help so many kids and parents, and I'm really, really grateful.

    26. JCJordan Chiles35:57

        Thank you.

    27. GCGina Chiles35:57

        Thank you, Dr. Becky. We appreciate you. [upbeat music]

    28. BKDr. Becky Kennedy36:05

        I feel so inspired by that conversation. I learned so much. There are so many things that Jordan and Gina said that are going to stick with me, and I'm going to share the three things that are loudest in my mind right now, just to bring them to the surface. Number one, I love how Jordan embodies the idea that you are more than a moment. You are more than any one thing, and I love how she does it in such an imperfect, totally human way. You're gonna have a hard moment, and anybody, whether you're a successful athlete, or you don't do sports at all, you're gonna sink into those emotions. It's gonna feel awful, and that moment isn't who you are. Two, Gina really embodies that power of repair. A moment she's proudest of, okay, in her parenting of her Olympic gymnast child is a moment she said sorry. May that be the standard for all of us parents. And then three, I love how Jordan talked about being a caterpillar for someone else's butterfly. I think so many times we can get really sucked into our world and what's happening right now, and there's something really opening and powerful and community-oriented and generative in thinking about the impact we're going to have on our kids, on other parents, on just future generations, and I found that so hopeful and inspiring. Ooh, let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground, place a hand on your heart, and let's remind ourselves even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. I'll see you soon. [upbeat music]

Episode duration: 38:07