Misty Copeland on Safety, Confidence, and Raising Her Son Differently | Dr. Becky

1. 0:00 – 5:53

   Intro and welcome

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy0:00

      I had a really interesting conversation with my eight-year-old the other day. I was talking with him and my husband, and we were kind of talking about stories from when we were younger, about things that we wanted and didn't have, and kind of memories of, like, being at a dance and all the kids having a certain shirt and, you know, not being able to get that shirt. Just kind of real-life struggles of wanting and not having. He ended up asking a really interesting question: how much wanting and having versus wanting and not having is good for a kid? Like, what's the right percentage in terms of developing kind of into an adult who's resilient, who works hard? Obviously, there's no answer to this question, but it's actually something that kept coming to mind today as I was talking with the absolutely incredible Misty Copeland. Misty grew up in real poverty, in real instability, men in and out of her home, not being sure what food would be on the table, living in a motel. She started ballet at 13, which probably surprises a lot of us, given we know she's one of the greatest ballerinas of all time. She definitely had an extreme version of wanting and not having, and I'm not just talking about T-shirts. I'm talking about safety. I'm talking about connection. I'm talking about people asking her basic questions about her life and about her day. And then a lot changed in her tween years. And then here she is today, right? She's the first Black woman to become a principal dancer at American Ballet Theatre. She is an icon, and she's more than that. She's married. She has a four-year-old son. She delights in the safety and stability of her home today, and the love and attention she pours into her child. You're going to get so much out of this conversation I had with Misty today. It's one that left me with so many new thoughts and things that I wanna do today in my home. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is another episode in the series How We're Raised, this one with Misty Copeland. Misty, so you've recently retired from dancing. You have a four-year-old.

   2. MCMisty Copeland2:26

      Yeah.

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:26

      Just let's get started. Tell me kind of what a normal Tuesday, Wednesday looks like for you.

   4. MCMisty Copeland2:31

      Oh, my gosh. You know, it's so crazy because I've spent so much of... more than half of my life with so much structure, and, uh, you know, being a classical ballerina and working for a company. And now I am in this interesting time where I call the shots, and I create my own schedule. So every day looks so different-

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy2:55

      Mm

   6. MCMisty Copeland2:55

      ... that it's, like, hard to even say. [laughs] I mean, I guess the consistent thing is, um, waking up and taking Jackson to school, like, getting him-

   7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:04

      Uh-huh

   8. MCMisty Copeland3:04

      ... ready. So it's really... Yeah, that's, like, the consistent thing, is that, um, you know, he's up at 7:30. I'm making him... Right now, it's been, like, two months straight of challah French toast that he wants every morning. [laughs]

   9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:18

      I mean, that's... I'm... When do I get the invite?

   10. MCMisty Copeland3:21

       Do you, like... Yeah.

   11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:22

       Yeah, I do.

   12. MCMisty Copeland3:22

       Come on over. [laughs]

   13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:22

       I do, 'cause that is not my-

   14. MCMisty Copeland3:24

       I know

   15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:24

       ... morning with my kids or me, you know? So that-

   16. MCMisty Copeland3:27

       Yeah

   17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:28

       ... my children shall not hear this interview.

   18. MCMisty Copeland3:29

       They-

   19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:29

       Nope. [laughs]

   20. MCMisty Copeland3:31

       [laughs] I only have one, so-

   21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:33

       Uh-huh

   22. MCMisty Copeland3:33

       ... it's a little easier.

   23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:34

       It's manageable.

   24. MCMisty Copeland3:34

       And, yeah. [laughs] And, uh, and taking him to school, like, that's kind of, like, a non-negotiable, unless there's, you know, you know, there are certain s- s-

   25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:42

       Yeah

   26. MCMisty Copeland3:42

       ... circumstances if I'm traveling or something. But, um, and then, you know, I have a lot of meetings, whether it's for the foundation or for, uh, my production company. Um, depending on if I'm in the midst of writing a book-

   27. BKDr. Becky Kennedy3:56

       Mm-hmm

   28. MCMisty Copeland3:56

       ... you know, there'll be time committed to that. I have a book coming out in the fall, so-

   29. BKDr. Becky Kennedy4:00

       Yeah

   30. MCMisty Copeland4:00

       ... um, I, I try and squeeze in, uh, you know, some kind of movement, moving my body.
2. 5:53 – 10:19

   "Freedom within the form"

   1. MCMisty Copeland5:53

      ballet.

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy5:53

      Freedom within the form.

   3. MCMisty Copeland5:55

      Yes. And so, you know, I think that initially with ballet, what I was so drawn to was, um- That, that need for the consistency and the stability and, um, and, uh, knowing that I'm gonna show up, and, like, knowing what to expect every day because I did not have that, um, throughout my childhood. Like, throughout my youth, there was so much, uh, movement and, you know, moving, different schools, different fathers. [laughs] My mother married five times. I mean, there was, there was just so little, um, stability and consistency that I was really craving that. But it- so as much as ballet, you know, you have to show up again and again, and I think that's something that I needed and wanted, was to show up and, and know I'm gonna do my pliés, and my tendus, and my dégagés, and it's gonna be in the exact same order every single day.

   4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:49

      Yeah.

   5. MCMisty Copeland6:49

      And there was a comfort in that, um, which I think children do crave. [laughs]

   6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy6:55

      Mm-hmm.

   7. MCMisty Copeland6:56

      And, uh, but at the same time, there's a creativity. And so it's kind of like the mix of these two things that, um, exist, you know, coexist.

   8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:05

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MCMisty Copeland7:05

      And I think that as a parent, there's so much of that. It's like you wanna create this stability, and you wanna have the consistency, but at the same time, you have to be ready to just be on your toes and not always knowing what's gonna be thrown at you, and I think there's something about performance that does that. It's like as much as you perf- you prepare, you go onstage, and there's so many elements you're not in control of. And I think I was always drawn to that.

   10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:30

       Hmm.

   11. MCMisty Copeland7:31

       Um, that I'm, I'm prepared and I know that I've got a good foundation.

   12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:35

       Yep.

   13. MCMisty Copeland7:36

       But there's an excitement in not knowing what's gonna be thrown at you, whether it's, like, the orchestra and the conductor doing their own thing, and the con- and the orchestra might be faster or slower than you're used to, or the lights might, something might happen, or your partner might forget the steps.

   14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:51

       Mm-hmm.

   15. MCMisty Copeland7:51

       Like, there are so many things that are thrown at you, but you've got this good foundation-

   16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy7:55

       Yeah

   17. MCMisty Copeland7:56

       ... um, that I think is very similar to being a mom. [laughs]

   18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:00

       [laughs]

   19. MCMisty Copeland8:00

       But I, you know, I think that, um, so much of my, like, beginning years, like, at American Ballet Theatre, um, were kind of, uh... There wasn't a lot of freedom in terms of creativity-

   20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:15

       Hmm

   21. MCMisty Copeland8:15

       ... in my mind, not that I was being told that.

   22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:18

       Wow.

   23. MCMisty Copeland8:18

       And not until, uh, probably around the time that I started working with Prince that he ga- he kind of-

   24. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:27

       Sentences all of us can't say.

   25. MCMisty Copeland8:29

       [laughs]

   26. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:30

       Like, I would like to say that, "It's not until I was working with Prince," but I, I, it would just be a lie.

   27. MCMisty Copeland8:34

       [laughs]

   28. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:34

       I try to tell the truth. So sorry. Keep going.

   29. MCMisty Copeland8:37

       [laughs]

   30. BKDr. Becky Kennedy8:37

       Just have to note that.
3. 10:19 – 14:58

   Learning to improvise, working with Prince

   1. MCMisty Copeland10:19

      and things on my toes.

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:20

      Yeah. You know, I hadn't thought about it in such a crystallized way, but so much of parenting is improv.

   3. MCMisty Copeland10:25

      [laughs]

   4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:25

      I mean, you know, because whatever hard moment you prepare for from a book, or from Instagram, or for someone's course, at the end of the day, like, your kid is gonna throw you something-

   5. MCMisty Copeland10:37

      Right

   6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:37

      ... different.

   7. MCMisty Copeland10:37

      Yeah.

   8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:38

      You're reading about, okay, when your kid doesn't listen, but you're like, "But my kid not only isn't listening, like, they're naked eating a popsicle-

   9. MCMisty Copeland10:45

      [laughs]

   10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:45

       ... at 7:30 in the morning." Like, there's not really a book about that, and my other kid is screaming, "You never pay attention to me," and I have the biggest meeting of my life at 9:00 AM. So, like, w- that's not a chapter-

   11. MCMisty Copeland10:56

       [laughs]

   12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:56

       ... in anybody's book.

   13. MCMisty Copeland10:57

       You're right.

   14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:58

       But I think-

   15. MCMisty Copeland10:59

       Right

   16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy10:59

       ... uh, uh, just help me get back to that improv moment for you with Prince.

   17. MCMisty Copeland11:03

       Mm-hmm.

   18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:04

       Before, you didn't just show up able to do that. It felt new, but there was some amount of prep, even if it was more prescribed for years-

   19. MCMisty Copeland11:14

       Mm-hmm

   20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:14

       ... that, that gave you enough to go do that.

   21. MCMisty Copeland11:17

       Mm-hmm.

   22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:17

       So what, what was your dancing life, like, before that?

   23. MCMisty Copeland11:20

       Yeah.

   24. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:20

       Like, tell me a little bit more about that part.

   25. MCMisty Copeland11:22

       Yeah. Well, when you're talking right now, I'm connecting it really to the beginning, beginning, beginning years-

   26. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:27

       Great

   27. MCMisty Copeland11:27

       ... of my training. Yeah. [laughs]

   28. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:31

       Psychologist.

   29. MCMisty Copeland11:31

       Yeah.

   30. BKDr. Becky Kennedy11:31

       Go back.
4. 14:58 – 20:45

   Growing up in instability — motels, five siblings, one room

   1. MCMisty Copeland14:59

      Um, you know, I, I think just about from the moment I was two years old, I was born in Kansas City, Missouri. I was two when my mom picked up and, and divorced for the second time with my father and moved to Los Angeles. Uh, and that was, like, the beginning of just, like, chaos. Different men in m- in our lives. My mom married five times. Um, just constantly moving, not know- you know, by the time I was 13 years old, we were living in a motel. We were s- all, me and my s- five siblings were sleeping on a floor, uh, uh, you know, in, in one room, um, never, not really knowing if there's gonna be food on the table, if there's gonna be a roof over our heads, where we were going the next day. And so to be in a place where I knew what was going to happen-

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:44

      Wow

   3. MCMisty Copeland15:44

      ... every single day, literally to be in, in a studio where I'm in community, we're all doing the same thing, there's no hierarchy-

   4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy15:54

      Hmm

   5. MCMisty Copeland15:54

      ... I didn't feel, which is so crazy because there's so much hierarchy, like, in ba- the ballet structure. [laughs] But in the studio and in, in those, you know, being a student, I felt like I was one in this community, and the teacher was there to, like, feed me. Um, and I was, uh, you know, being seen for, like, the potential and that there were actual goals and dreams. Like, I didn't have any of that before.

   6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:19

      Hmm.

   7. MCMisty Copeland16:19

      And so, uh, yeah, going on stage, it was like I can... I, the, I can't see the audience. It's just black and darkness, and there, you know, people can't say anything to me other than, like, cheers and bravo. [laughs]

   8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:34

      Yeah.

   9. MCMisty Copeland16:34

      Um, and I can do, I can be in control. I can be in control of myself and my body and what I have to say.

   10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:43

       What, what got you in that class? Like, how'd you, how'd you go from your childhood to, to-

   11. MCMisty Copeland16:50

       Yeah

   12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy16:50

       ... the studio? Like, how'd, how'd you get there literally?

   13. MCMisty Copeland16:52

       So it was at the age of 12 that I... I don't know where this came from, but I just said, "I want to audition for the dance team" at my middle school, and my whole family was like, "What are you thinking? This is the worst idea. You're so shy. You're so introverted. You don't wanna be, like, in the spotlight. Why would you do this?" And I was like, "It, I just want to." Like, this, I mean, movement was something I was always drawn to.

   14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy17:17

       Yeah.

   15. MCMisty Copeland17:17

       And, um, and I felt like I could express myself in ways that I couldn't verbally. I mean, I was auditioning with girls who grew up dancing and were actually in formal training and dance classes, and, um, I was made captain, and the drill team coach was like, "Wow, you've got a lot of talent and potential. I wanna introduce you to someone who teaches ballet classes at the community center-

   16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy17:39

       Hmm

   17. MCMisty Copeland17:39

       ... at the Boys & Girls Club." And I was already a member, and so I was introduced to Cindy Bradley, who was teaching free ballet classes-

   18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy17:45

       Yeah

   19. MCMisty Copeland17:46

       ... at, um, public schools and in community centers and looking for more diverse students to give an opportunity to who wouldn't otherwise be introduced-

   20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy17:54

       Yep

   21. MCMisty Copeland17:54

       ... to it. And, um, I took my first class on a basketball court, and it was a little strange. She told me on that first day, "I think you're a prodigy. I think this is something you could do professionally." And I was just like, "What is this crazy lady talking about?"

   22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:08

       I have the chills. Ooh.

   23. MCMisty Copeland18:09

       Within a couple of months, I was in the studio. I moved in with Cindy, and I ended up living with them for three years. Um, it was a lot for my family. It was a lot for my mom. Um, you know, f- I, I think it got to a point where she felt like I was being taken away from her, though it was a decision we both made.

   24. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:28

       Yeah.

   25. MCMisty Copeland18:29

       I think it was a lot to see my, uh, such a huge shift in me and such a huge change in the person that I was.

   26. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:37

       Mm.

   27. MCMisty Copeland18:37

       Um, you know, I'd... Again, I'd never been a- in an environment where there was safety and stability, and I was literally being fed, like, nutritious foods. And my, I started to, like... I was well-nourished.

   28. BKDr. Becky Kennedy18:51

       Yeah.

   29. MCMisty Copeland18:51

       I was, like, changing and, and feeling confident. And ballet was, e- was bringing out so much in me that was hidden-

   30. BKDr. Becky Kennedy19:00

       Like what?
5. 20:45 – 25:07

   Being asked real questions about her life for the first time

   1. MCMisty Copeland20:45

      which she didn't tell me at the time, but, um, would eventually become a, uh, an, an issue.

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:51

      Yeah. I always think we, we communicate so much to our kids through our questions.

   3. MCMisty Copeland20:55

      Yeah.

   4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy20:56

      And it's not about more questions, 'cause I actually think parents listening here, right, probably tend to, in general, ask a lot of questions.

   5. MCMisty Copeland21:03

      Mm-hmm.

   6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:04

      But, you know, I think about moments in my own childhood, it just, where I had a lot of questions unlike you, but, "How did you do on this test? What did this person get?"

   7. MCMisty Copeland21:12

      Mm, mm-hmm.

   8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:12

      "What did this person te- " And that, that was like, ugh.

   9. MCMisty Copeland21:15

      Yeah.

   10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:15

       Right? But what you're saying is someone wondering what you thought about something, someone being interested in your day, someone asking you what part you'd want all comes from the assumption that you have interesting thoughts inside of you and stories-

   11. MCMisty Copeland21:32

       Mm-hmm

   12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:32

       ... from your day worth telling.

   13. MCMisty Copeland21:34

       Mm-hmm.

   14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy21:35

       Um, and it sounds like for both understandable reasons, but still things that impacted you, um, before living there, like, that just, that, that mirror was never held up. You, you mentioned, but we didn't get, get into it yet, it wasn't just an up and to the right path kind of. You said, um, I had kind of the perfect constitution, the perfect body, and then you mentioned, "Oh, e- except for my skin color."

   15. MCMisty Copeland22:01

       Mm-hmm.

   16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy22:02

       So when, when did that part start to... I don't know, when did it become obvious to you, oh, like, the world is not taking me in in the same way?

   17. MCMisty Copeland22:09

       Mm-hmm.

   18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy22:09

       Or is there a place for me?

   19. MCMisty Copeland22:11

       Yeah, it's so interesting because, um, I remember, uh, so my teacher, she would, uh, again, she was, like, pouring into me in every way possible. And I remember, um, she read from, um, I don't remember what the book was. It was one of the ballerinas that were, uh, trained under George Balanchine, who was the founder of the New York City Ballet, and he kind of created his own ideal of what a ballerina-

   20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy22:37

       Oh

   21. MCMisty Copeland22:37

       ... should look like. And, um, that kind of, like, changed the trajectory of, like, ballerinas' bodies in that time. It was more, like, geared towards, like, oh, what do, like, the supermodels look like in this time, like, in the '60s and in the se- like Twiggy. And anyways, he kind of coined, like, this is what an ideal ballerina should look like, and he was, like, you know, long legs and long feet and long arms and a tiny head and a long neck and skin the color of a freshly peeled apple. And, um, my teacher told me all of those attributes except for the apple part. And, you know, in my mind, I'm like, "I belong here. This is a space I, I'm supposed to be in." And so she always kind of, she blocked a lot of things, and she, but she created this very safe environment where I felt like I deserve and I belong in this world. And it wasn't until I would go off and, you know, into the real world, and I joined American Ballet Theatre, and then I'm in a company of over 90 dancers, and I'm the only Black woman.

   22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy23:36

       Mm.

   23. MCMisty Copeland23:36

       And I'm the only Black woman for the first decade of my career. And I think I was aware of it in some ways because I'd go away to summer programs, and I would be the only Black girl in my class. But it wasn't something I ever felt like-

   24. BKDr. Becky Kennedy23:50

       Mm

   25. MCMisty Copeland23:50

       ... I was being excluded, and, and I was always being given full scholarships and told I was a prodigy and given opportunity to. But once I got into a professional company, it was kind of like, yeah, you're all of those things, and you, or is, you're good enough to get in. But, like, we don't know if you're good enough to actually, like, be a part of this legacy and history in terms of, like, being a soloist or being a principal dancer. Um, and I guess it was, like, in that time that I wasn't being given the opportunity to perform the classical works. Which are, like, the epitome. Like, you have to look a certain way, you know, to be a part of what they call the white ballets, um, with Swan Lake and La Bayadere, and the second act where you, um, have fair skin, and everyone looks the same, and you're supposed to look otherworldly. And, um, and I was being asked to paint my skin a lighter color to fit in with the rest of the corps de ballet. I mean, there was so much going on that was just like, "This is wrong, and this doesn't feel right. I no longer feel like this is the world I'm supposed to be a part of."

   26. BKDr. Becky Kennedy24:52

       You're being asked to paint your skin a lighter color.

   27. MCMisty Copeland24:55

       Yes.

   28. BKDr. Becky Kennedy24:55

       Take me to that.

   29. MCMisty Copeland24:56

       I mean, I remember specifically, I remember being a, a young member of the corps de ballet, and we were on tour in, like, Cleveland or Detroit or somewhere like that. I remember it being really cold

6. 25:07 – 30:06

   Being asked to paint her skin to match the corps

   1. MCMisty Copeland25:07

      and, um, and I'm doing, uh, I think the ballet Giselle. And, uh, and then the, you know, s- I guess, the, one of the makeup artists comes in with, like, a little container of pancake, which is what they used to, you know, the makeup they used for performing. And it was, I don't know, your color. And, and it's like, "Oh, just pass this around. Everyone has to put this on." And I'm like, "Oh, no, this isn't... [laughs] I look like I'm ashy, like I need lotion, like, [laughs] if I put this on."

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy25:37

      Yeah.

   3. MCMisty Copeland25:37

      And they're like, "No, no, no. Everyone wears this color. Everyone has to wear this color." And I just remember feeling so invisible, um, but yet so visible. And just, um, like, it, like, crushed my soul. It was just like, "Oh, I'm not supposed to be a part of this." And just having this, like, uh, this battle within myself of, like, um, whether or not this is something I should be doing. You know, I, I was ha- I w- I wasn't having that conversation immediately, like, with my colleagues, but I was going home. And I was, like, talking to my teacher, talking to... You know, I was very fortunate to have mentors in my life from a young age. And I think that definitely gave me a foundation of what it, like, the importance of having mentors in my life that I can have those tough conversations with. Um, and I think that's why I am where I am, because I was prepared in so many ways, like, uh, to have difficult conversations and advocate for myself with my artistic director, the artistic staff, um, at pivotal moments in my career, where I brought up things that people were uncomfortable talking about, or they didn't want to address, or they didn't wanna change. And I was being prepared in ways where I could actually articulate myself and actually talk about it, and not just come in and be overemotional or angry, um, which, you know, uh, I shouldn't have to be, you know, completely prepared. I mean, I was a 17-year-old girl when I joined the company, you know? And so I f- just feel like I was being asked to be a lot more mature and prepared and ready as a Black woman in, in the field.

   4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy27:18

      Was there a point it ever got better? Do you feel like you kept getting those messages?

   5. MCMisty Copeland27:23

      Um, I mean, I, I got better at articulating myself, and again, going to the source, going to the artistic director and really sharing my experiences.

   6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy27:33

      Yeah.

   7. MCMisty Copeland27:33

      And it, it, it made our relationship incredible.

   8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy27:37

      Hmm.

   9. MCMisty Copeland27:37

      Um, and he heard me in a, in a different way. And there was still being... He was getting pushback from other people on the artistic staff about me, and he decided to, you know, see my talent and give me opportunity. And so I'm very grateful for that, but I know that it was also me advocating for myself and having the support that I did. Um, but yeah, the, I mean, I remember being in my early 20s, and, and, um, the company was, was filming Swan Lake for, like, television. I think it was being aired on PBS or something, and it was made into, like, a VHS [laughs] and all at the time.

   10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy28:14

       All the rage back then.

   11. MCMisty Copeland28:15

       Whatever it was. All the rage. [laughs] And, um, and I overheard, uh, one of the ballet mistresses discussing whether or not I would be able to perform in the second act, which is the white act, where all the white swans perform in unison. And, um, and I was removed for the filming. Even though I performed every night, I was first cast, and I was removed from the filming of the second act. And, um, and that was, like, devastating, you know? And so there he was getting pushback in, in, in ways. Um, but I would say, like, post being promoted to soloist, I really started to develop my voice and, um, have the confidence to really say what I wanted. It was, like, I think that, you know, working with Prince, it was, like, really, um, you know, one of my mentors, Raven Wilkinson, who was a, a Black ballerina in the 1950s, one of the first to dance-

   12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy29:11

       Yeah

   13. MCMisty Copeland29:12

       ... in a major ballet company, coming into my life. And all of these people that made me, again, go back to my roots and really feel like, "You do belong here. You are supposed to be doing this. You a- a- you know, uh, have a special, uh, place and moment to be able to change the trajectory of what ballet can be in the future."

   14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy29:32

       Mm-hmm.

   15. MCMisty Copeland29:32

       And so it became so much more meaningful-

   16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy29:35

       Yeah

   17. MCMisty Copeland29:36

       ... and so, and so much bigger than myself.

   18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy29:39

       Uh, yeah, I guess, uh, you know, Misty, you're making me think about, like, I'm rethinking my own thought that is, parents were our kids' mirrors.

   19. MCMisty Copeland29:47

       Mm-hmm.

   20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy29:47

       But in some ways, as adults, we need other adults to be mirrors too.

   21. MCMisty Copeland29:50

       I needed that.

   22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy29:51

       Right? Like, I see something in you you can't currently access in yourself, and then we grow it and become it-

   23. MCMisty Copeland29:58

       Mm-hmm

   24. BKDr. Becky Kennedy29:58

       ... a little bit.

   25. MCMisty Copeland29:58

       Mm-hmm.

   26. BKDr. Becky Kennedy29:59

       You, you said the word confidence a lot of times. I, I think a lot about that word and how I think sometimes we get it wrong,

7. 30:06 – 35:01

   What confidence actually means, and parenting without overcorrecting

   1. BKDr. Becky Kennedy30:06

      what it really means or where it really comes from. But yeah, your journey around that, what... Now, sitting where you are now, what, what does confidence mean?

   2. MCMisty Copeland30:13

      It's quiet to me. [laughs] I think it's, like, the opposite of what people think it is. [laughs] And I th- I think I've always, like, I knew that, like, as a young girl, in ballet, not in my life.

   3. BKDr. Becky Kennedy30:23

      Yeah.

   4. MCMisty Copeland30:24

      But in ballet, it was like- Uh, this just makes sense and it- I'm working hard, but it's easy

   5. BKDr. Becky Kennedy30:30

      Mm-hmm

   6. MCMisty Copeland30:30

      ... it- it's- it's effortless and, and it feels good. And I don't have to, like, shout and pr- to prove myself. I'm just doing what I do, and it feels good, and it comes through. Uh, and I think I went through a time where I wasn't, uh, i- within the company, it- it felt like I wasn't being trusted-

   7. BKDr. Becky Kennedy30:50

      Mm

   8. MCMisty Copeland30:50

      ... and that people didn't believe maybe that I could, that I could, uh, rise to the occasion and be a soloist or, you know. And so then I started to, like, lose what that meant, and so it was like I have to shout and prove m- myself.

   9. BKDr. Becky Kennedy31:04

      Mm.

   10. MCMisty Copeland31:04

       Um, and it didn't feel good because I, I think I knew that wasn't what, like-

   11. BKDr. Becky Kennedy31:08

       Yeah

   12. MCMisty Copeland31:09

       ... inner confidence really was. I think by the time I was promoted to principal dancer, I didn't care about the title anymore. [laughs] I was working so hard, and I had- was given a lot of roles that I wanted, and I was like, "Well, this is what it's, this is what it's for, and I'm, I'm fulfilled, and I'm doing the things I wanna do." And so I didn't feel like I had to do it for anyone other than me-

   13. BKDr. Becky Kennedy31:35

       Yeah

   14. MCMisty Copeland31:35

       ... and my community.

   15. BKDr. Becky Kennedy31:37

       Yeah. Okay, so I, I have to ask as we pivot to you as a mom, one of the things I think that comes up a lot as I talk, you know, to parents who are in my practice about people who are very aware, "I wanna do certain things differently than how I was raised." Um, but at the same time, I don't wanna, I don't wanna over-correct.

   16. MCMisty Copeland31:58

       Mm-hmm.

   17. BKDr. Becky Kennedy31:58

       Right? Because there are elements, not all of it, but-

   18. MCMisty Copeland32:01

       Yeah

   19. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:01

       ... there are things that made me who I am.

   20. MCMisty Copeland32:03

       Right.

   21. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:04

       Right? So h- how do you think about that? Obviously, you live a life now with Jackson that isn't chaotic, that is, is safe, right?

   22. MCMisty Copeland32:12

       Mm-hmm.

   23. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:12

       Do, do you feel like you have this urge to kind of take your past and, "Oh, I just, I have a hard time saying no. I just wanna make everything happy for him," or-

   24. MCMisty Copeland32:21

       [laughs]

   25. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:21

       ... h- how does that, how does that play out?

   26. MCMisty Copeland32:23

       A little bit. I mean, I always thought when my husband and I have talked about, you know, for so long, like, what it would be like when we had a kid.

   27. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:29

       Yeah.

   28. MCMisty Copeland32:29

       And I always thought I would be, like, the hard one and the disciplinary, and I definitely fall more towards [laughs] the, the softer side.

   29. BKDr. Becky Kennedy32:38

       Mm-hmm.

   30. MCMisty Copeland32:39

       Um, but I also know that that's not the, the, you know, the... It's finding a balance.
8. 35:01 – 38:49

   Rapid-fire questions and closing thoughts

   1. MCMisty Copeland35:02

      of being someone else.

   2. BKDr. Becky Kennedy35:04

      Yeah. And now that belief is what?

   3. MCMisty Copeland35:07

      That I'm strong, and I'm powerful, and I have a voice, and I'm, uh, comfortable using it.

   4. BKDr. Becky Kennedy35:13

      Where you shine as a parent.

   5. MCMisty Copeland35:15

      I think the ways in which I physically am present and show love. Um, you know, I didn't get a lot of that from, like, parental figures in my life, and I think that that's something that it- it's so amazing to see it reflected back, like, through Jackson and the ways that he is in his relationships, and, um, that I feel, like, so proud that I am that way with him and that he feels it and that he wants to be open and sensitive and vulnerable.

   6. BKDr. Becky Kennedy35:46

      Hardest part of parenting for you.

   7. MCMisty Copeland35:49

      I think dealing with the, like, monster you're creating. [laughs]

   8. BKDr. Becky Kennedy35:52

      Uh-huh.

   9. MCMisty Copeland35:52

      You know? Like, if we're good and bad, like, you, you, um, give, you pour into them, and they become, they're becoming these, like, confident little beings, and then they feel empowered to, like, do and say so much, and you're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait."

   10. BKDr. Becky Kennedy36:08

       [laughs]

   11. MCMisty Copeland36:08

       "No, no, no. Not yet." [laughs]

   12. BKDr. Becky Kennedy36:10

       Yep. Yep. That'll help you later, but please be a little more compliant.

   13. MCMisty Copeland36:13

       Yeah.

   14. BKDr. Becky Kennedy36:14

       Just a little.

   15. MCMisty Copeland36:14

       [laughs]

   16. BKDr. Becky Kennedy36:14

       100%. Okay, last question. Um, when Jackson's, I don't know, 30, 40, and someone just says, like, "Hey, what was your mom like when you were younger?" How do you hope he answers that?

   17. MCMisty Copeland36:26

       I hope he says happy and loving.

   18. BKDr. Becky Kennedy36:29

       Beautiful.

   19. MCMisty Copeland36:30

       [laughs]

   20. BKDr. Becky Kennedy36:30

       Thank you. This has been, um, I've learned so much. I've con- I just really appreciate your openness and you being here. Thank you.

   21. MCMisty Copeland36:38

       Thank you so much. What a pleasure.

   22. BKDr. Becky Kennedy36:46

       There are so many things I'll be left with after that conversation. The thing that happens to be loudest for me in my brain right now are kind of the word improv, and this thing Misty said toward the beginning. Freedom within the form. I think those two things come into play all the time in parenting. And you know, some of my favorite moments when I meet a parent on the street or when I'm talking to a member who's been in the Good Inside app for a while is they'll say something to me like this, "You know, Dr. Becky, the whole like close your eyes hack you talk about sometimes, I took it, but honestly it doesn't really work for me. I have like a different version I do in my house," uh, almost as if they're apologizing. I get so lit up inside when I hear this. Oh, tell me. I love hearing about what I tell you that doesn't work, but kind of how you take something about it that does hit your heart and then try your own. That's improv. That's freedom within the form. And so I guess I just wanna end today's episode, especially if you've been kind of a Good Inside listener for a while, definitely if you're a Good Inside member, 'cause that tells me you kind of did what Misty said. You've kind of laid the foundation. I love hearing your stories of improv. I love hearing the random thing you did at bedtime [laughs] that was kind of funny, but felt right and worked, or the way you kind of used play in something that seemed ridiculous to get out the door, or the thing that you've heard from me that you threw out the window and you said, "Nope, not for me. I'm gonna do this instead." Those moments just feel so alive, just like kind of going to an improv show does, and so please share them. You could email us, podcast@goodinside.com. You could drop a comment if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, but those stories always inspire me and help me do a little kind of better improv in my own home. So bring it on. All right. Let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground, place a hand on your heart, and let's remind ourselves, even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. [gentle music] I'll see you soon.

Episode duration: 39:10