Tantrums Trigger Me

1. 0:00 – 0:00

   Intro

   1. BEDr. Becky0:00

      [instrumental music]

2. 0:00 – 0:46

   Meeting a dad who feels triggered by tantrums

   1. BEDr. Becky0:00

      I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. I'm a clinical psychologist, I'm a mom of three, and I'm on a mission to rethink the way we raise our kids. Today, we're talking about triggers and cycle breaking with a dad of two young daughters. Let's jump in. Hi, how are you?

   2. UFUnknown Father0:19

      Hi. I am well. How are you?

   3. BEDr. Becky0:20

      I'm good. It's really nice to meet you. Thank you for jumping on here in the middle of your day.

   4. UFUnknown Father0:26

      [laughs] In the middle. You can probably hear a little bit of my background. There's a bunch of kids.

   5. BEDr. Becky0:31

      That's okay. That speaks to a parent's experience. Always surrounded in our hardest, deepest in thought moments with screaming children.

   6. UFUnknown Father0:38

      [laughs]

   7. BEDr. Becky0:38

      You know, same with me. Tell me a little bit about you and kinda, like, the things that are on your mind right now.

3. 0:46 – 1:12

   Family background: first-generation upbringing and early responsibility

   1. UFUnknown Father0:46

      Um, I am a first-generation American. Both of my parents immigrated here from the Dominican Republic, and I was the firstborn in my nuclear family. There was one older cousin older than me, but we never really got along. So for all intents and purposes, I felt like I was the oldest. Um, and I was really connected to my younger sister and a lot of my younger cousins, uh, growing up.

   2. BEDr. Becky1:11

      Mm.

4. 1:12 – 2:20

   From special education professional to parent of two

   1. UFUnknown Father1:12

      So I was always kind of looking after younger ones. Um, and my mother took care of children in the house as well. Um, we grew up in a very kind of traditional household in that sense, where my mom was a homemaker and my dad was working. I went into, uh, education, um, and was a teacher, a SPED teacher for a number of years, um, about nine years, and, uh, now transitioned this past year to being an inclusion coordinator. And I work with children of all abilities, um, right now specifically, um, also with children that are, that have autism spectrum disorder. And I am a father of two.

   2. BEDr. Becky1:59

      Mm.

   3. UFUnknown Father1:59

      I have a three-year-old girl and a newborn who is approaching eight weeks.

   4. BEDr. Becky2:07

      Mm.

   5. UFUnknown Father2:07

      I feel like I've always worked with kids and, but it has been a big difference, a big shift from being someone that has always worked with children to someone that now is a parent to two children.

5. 2:20 – 3:11

   A thought experiment: what would your parents do during a public meltdown?

   1. BEDr. Becky2:20

      Well, thank you. Maybe we can start by, like, let's go through a scenario by asking you to imagine you being the kid and how your parents would've reacted. Let's say it's, I don't know, it's a really, really hot day and your parents are with you somewhere outside and, I don't know, you see a store, maybe it's like a cart that has some type of icy treat, something cold and sweet and delicious, and you ask to have it, and your parents say some version of, "No, we don't have time. Uh, you had something like that earlier. We don't have the money." Some version of no. And you melt down. You are just on the street. You are crying. You are screaming. You are so just expressive in your displeasure. Like, what, what happens next?

   2. UFUnknown Father3:07

      [laughs] Um-

   3. BEDr. Becky3:09

      Laughter? No? [laughs]

6. 3:11 – 3:56

   ‘Malcriado’ and the shutdown of big feelings

   1. UFUnknown Father3:11

      Um, well, what happens next? If I'm the kid, first of all, there were certain behaviors that were communicated to me when I was young were just unacceptable to do-

   2. BEDr. Becky3:23

      Mm-hmm

   3. UFUnknown Father3:23

      ... in public. There's a word in Spanish called malcriado. Malcriado directly translated means, like, essentially, like, raised wrongly.

   4. BEDr. Becky3:32

      Mm.

   5. UFUnknown Father3:33

      And, you know, when you were misbehaving, you could be labeled that. And having a meltdown in public, as far as I c- I don't remember having one. Because as far as I can remember-

   6. BEDr. Becky3:43

      Mm-hmm

   7. UFUnknown Father3:43

      ... that was shut down very early on. And the fact that I didn't have meltdowns and that I wasn't overly expressive with my feelings in that way or with my disappointment was praised, and it was-

   8. BEDr. Becky3:56

      Mm

7. 3:56 – 4:59

   Threats, comparison stories, and learning to suppress emotion

   1. UFUnknown Father3:56

      ... criticized when it was, um, I had another cousin, in fact, um, the older cousin that I mentioned at the beginning of the conversation-

   2. BEDr. Becky4:05

      Mm-hmm

   3. UFUnknown Father4:05

      ... he was, uh, and I'll use this word because that's what, that's how it was treated, he was notorious for having these meltdowns, um, for-

   4. BEDr. Becky4:14

      Mm

   5. UFUnknown Father4:14

      ... wanting a thing, hearing no, and then, like, essentially l- [laughs] losing the function of his legs. He can no longer walk. He's on the ground. He's yelling. He's screaming. And then, um, the mom would give in, um, and get him the thing to avoid the meltdown. And then-

   6. BEDr. Becky4:32

      Mm

   7. UFUnknown Father4:32

      ... in my house, this was openly discussed by my parents as a failing of my aunt and, you know, something that was unacceptable in our household. Um, often a line, and this is a classic, you know, "You have no reason to be crying right now. Um, and if you-"

   8. BEDr. Becky4:51

      Mm.

   9. UFUnknown Father4:51

      "... you know, I can give you a reason, uh, to cry." Um, and so that would, that was the case for me, uh, growing up.

8. 4:59 – 8:04

   Dr. Becky reframes: attachment, hypervigilance, and survival strategies

   1. BEDr. Becky4:59

      There's honestly so much I wanna respond to in that, but I think it was one of the first things you said, like, you were like, "Yeah, what would happen next? Well, a better question would be, would that ever have happened?" And you're saying, "Yeah, that wouldn't have happened." Like, I literally wouldn't have had that meltdown. By the time I am, I don't know, five years old, Dr. Becky, in your situation, by the age of five, I had already learned really, really powerful attachment lessons in my family, where I knew that my emotional and therefore, like, actual survival was dependent on my really being hypervigilant for the way I had to show up to other people, even at the expense of kind of experiencing my own emotions. Is that, is that accurate? I just wanna make sure I got it right, 'cause it's so important.

   2. UFUnknown Father5:50

      Yeah, I mean, it's landing for me. I don't think I've put it in those words. And, um, the way that you framed it ... is resonating with me, for sure.

   3. BEDr. Becky5:56

      You know, something I always think about, because I, I don't know, I, I often hear parents asking me questions in my head, even though it's not actually happening live. [laughs] Um, but I hear a parent saying, "Oh, so you think it's, like, a good thing that kids are just having meltdowns when their parent says no to an Icee? Like, is that what you want?" And I always feel like there's so much between it never happening and it being something I welcome. Like, no, when my kid has a meltdown if they can't have something, it's not like I'm thinking, "Oh, my kid is feeling their feelings. Like, just do this. I'm loving it, you know? Feel the feelings." Like, no. But there's something really complex here that I think a lot of us didn't have explained to us as kids, and still, as adults now, as the parents, it can still be kind of complex, which is nobody loves when their kid has a meltdown, number one. Of course not. But the meltdown comes from a mismatch, right? Like, there's a mismatch. A kid is feeling all the feelings and doesn't yet have any of the skills to manage those feelings, right? It's just, like, this inconvenient situation. All the feelings, not enough of the skills. One of the things I really think about for my own kids is, like, ugh, like, the ultimate gift I wanna give them is when they're 18, 20-something, 40-something, that they can feel all of their feelings, and those feelings feel less scary because they know over the course of their lives they've developed coping skills, that the problem is never the feelings. We blame the feelings, but the problem isn't the feelings. The problem is that kids just need our help, and they need time to develop emotion regulation skills. And in that gap, when they have all the feelings and they don't yet have the skills, there's just a lot of, you know, kind of unfortunate, exhausting moments. And it sounds like one of the things you're saying is that in your house, kids who expressed all these feelings, who didn't have these skills, they weren't seen, really, as good kids who were having a hard time or good kids who were still learning these skills. They were seen as, like, bad kids, maybe even with, with bad parents.

9. 8:04 – 9:22

   Why ‘no conflict’ can be a hidden cost—and why change feels like betrayal

   1. UFUnknown Father8:04

      Definitely. Um, you know, I think growing up in our household, it was a point of pride that there was not a lot of conflict in our house.

   2. BEDr. Becky8:12

      Mm.

   3. UFUnknown Father8:13

      It didn't mean that there wasn't reason for conflict or that there, people weren't-

   4. BEDr. Becky8:18

      Mm-hmm

   5. UFUnknown Father8:18

      ... feeling conflicted, but it was never really something that happened a lot in our house, and it was something that we were proud of. And something kind of strange, now that I'm a parent, is that it takes so much effort. You know, I feel like I'm doing the right thing by my kids. I feel like giving them the space to have their feelings has really paid off. Like, I, already my three-year-old is showing a level of emotional awareness that I, you know, I probably didn't-

   6. BEDr. Becky8:49

      Mm.

   7. UFUnknown Father8:51

      Probably already in therapy when I was learning that one, but, you know-

   8. BEDr. Becky8:53

      [laughs]

   9. UFUnknown Father8:53

      ... she's already displaying that, and that fills my heart. I feel so good about it. But it is, it does take a lot of effort. It did take a lot of internal resources and bandwidth to kind of work those things out with her and to give her that space. And also, like, especially in my family, we were a very tight-knit family, and so, you know, I love my parents. I love my family. And so now, like, kind of doing things differently and even reflecting back on it, it's a strange feeling. It feels-

   10. BEDr. Becky9:22

       Yeah

10. 9:22 – 11:16

    Setting boundaries with grandparents: consent, affection, and new rules

    1. UFUnknown Father9:22

       ... almost like I'm betraying my parents or my own, or how I was raised by doing this thing differently. Whenever I take my daughter over to stay with my parents, I've had to, like, tell them these very nuanced things, like, "Hey, I want you guys to ask her if she wants a kiss, if she wants a hug, if she wants, you know... Like, I wanna teach her consent from a very early age."

    2. BEDr. Becky9:43

       Mm.

    3. UFUnknown Father9:43

       And they're like, "Yeah, I'm all for it, but, like, not with us, right? Like, we're her grandparents," like, you know? And I've had to kind of... It's been so much work going back to your own parents and telling them, like, the way that you wanna raise your kid is different from the way that they raised you, and acknowledge, like-

    4. BEDr. Becky10:03

       Mm-hmm

    5. UFUnknown Father10:03

       ... "You did your best, and I appreciate that, but also, I wanna do things differently than you did them with me." It's a very hard thing to reconcile.

    6. BEDr. Becky10:12

       Yeah. Right. We're talking about being a cycle breaker. Like, what is it like for someone to want to shift, in some ways, like, the direction of intergenerational patterns? And it sounds like you're embodying something really important. Like, I can look back and say, "I think my parents did the best they could with the resources they had available to them," and in a way, I'm actually doing the same thing. I'm doing the best I can with the resources I have available to me. Those things happen to be different on the surface, and then when we're together, it creates these conversations where someone is likely to feel defensive or someone is likely to feel criticized, especially when you're literally in your parents' house-

    7. UFUnknown Father10:53

       [laughs]

    8. BEDr. Becky10:54

       ... or you're literally leaving your daughter with them, right? It kind of feels like it all comes to a head.

    9. UFUnknown Father10:59

       For sure. It's all full circle at that point. Like, when I'm sitting there, watching my parents interact with my daughter, you know, I, I imagine-

    10. BEDr. Becky11:07

        Mm

    11. UFUnknown Father11:07

        ... my younger self in her, in her shoes. And I also see, like, how well-intentioned it is, but, like, for instance-

    12. BEDr. Becky11:16

        Yeah

11. 11:16 – 13:09

    ‘Allergic to crying’: adults soothing their discomfort, not just the child

    1. UFUnknown Father11:16

       ... like, when my daughter cries at my parents' house, and I've seen this even at my partner's parents' house, like, they are allergic to hearing children cry. They, you know, it's like a visceral reaction. As soon as the kid cries, they wanna figure out a way to get them to stop crying. Um, and, you know, because they feel like it's, you know, the, the kid is in pain, or the kid is, you know, worried, or they're sad, or they're in a bad place, and they wanna make them stop crying, and they have all these different ways of doing it. Um, but ultimately, what I see it as is, is stifling her emotional outlet, like, not letting her feel her feelings. And having to explain it to them, I feel like I'm kind of reaffirming it for myself.

    2. BEDr. Becky11:57

       It, it is really interesting, I think, this, like, intergenerational legacy that can get passed on where we're all uncomfortable with our emotions, 'cause we see a kid cry, and we think we're responding to their crying. But we're actually responding to our body and the way our body has learned to react to our own vulnerability or sadness. So we look to shut down the crying, not actually for the kid. We, we do it, like, for our own comfort in that moment, and it seems like you witness that. And it also seems like you're kind of the first one in your family who's saying, "Hey, I see her crying, too, and I'm uncomfortable. Maybe even at this point I've worked through some of that discomfort. Maybe I am more comfortable with that discomfort, so I don't have to shut it off right away in her, because now I can tolerate it in myself." And as it seems you're doing that, that then really gives your daughter an opening to have that emotional awareness and kind of comfort with herself that seems really important for you to instill from the start.

12. 13:09 – 13:48

    Reparenting in real time: validating feelings without fixing them

    1. UFUnknown Father13:09

       Yeah, absolutely. It feels really important to teach it to her. In so doing, this, this term reparenting is an interesting one.

    2. BEDr. Becky13:18

       Mm-hmm.

    3. UFUnknown Father13:18

       In teaching her how to do it, um, and how to have those feelings, I'm becoming more and more aware of when I invalidate my own feelings. And so I'm, I am kind of learning how to be compassionate towards myself, to learn that, like, for instance, I can say that I'm upset about something even if I'm not looking for a solution to it, even if I... I guess I learned growing up that, like, unless you were gonna do something about s- something or fix it, what's the purpose of, like, flying off the handle

13. 13:48 – 14:39

    A sensitive 3-year-old and the legacy of hypervigilance

    1. UFUnknown Father13:48

       or having these really intense feelings? I'm getting in touch with that now, but it takes practice. And [laughs] the other day, like, my daughter is so sensitive, and that's another thing I imagine, you know? Because she's so, already so sensitive to other people's perceptions or reactions to her.

    2. BEDr. Becky14:07

       Mm.

    3. UFUnknown Father14:08

       You know, she asks me, like, she asks me already, at three, she goes, "Dad," like, "are you upset with me?" And she's already aware of that.

    4. BEDr. Becky14:15

       Mm-hmm.

    5. UFUnknown Father14:15

       And I imagine that when I was a kid, I was probably s- super, like, as you said earlier, hypervigilant-

    6. BEDr. Becky14:21

       Mm-hmm

    7. UFUnknown Father14:21

       ... of how my actions affected other people and their perception of me.

    8. BEDr. Becky14:25

       Yeah.

    9. UFUnknown Father14:25

       And I'm still working out the latent effects of that, and, like, how that still to this day affects me and how I interact with people around me at work, my friends, my family, so on and so forth.

14. 14:39 – 16:14

    Dr. Becky’s core reframe: triggers as information, not proof something’s wrong

    1. BEDr. Becky14:39

       Well, so many things strike me about this conversation, but I think, uh, th- the biggest thing is this idea that when we see something in our kid that kind of activates or triggers something from our past, there's such a reparenting moment, right? [laughs] That's an... I always feel like my kids teach me way more than I will ever teach them, that, like, this whole parenting thing is talked about as something where, oh, you're helping your kids grow. And, like, a little bit we're saying, "Yeah, that's true," but also, like, there is this amazing opportunity to grow in all the ways that your body has probably always wanted. Um, and now as an adult, it's still hard work, but we are able to start giving more of that to ourselves. And when we look at tricky dynamics with our kids and that reframe, right, not from a, "Oh, why am I reacting like this? What's wrong with me?" Or, "What's wrong with my kid?" If we take away the idea that, you know, something is wrong with anyone, and we say, "Wait, maybe nothing's wrong with my kid. Maybe also nothing's wrong with me. Like, what information is here? What story from my past is coming alive? What need maybe have I always had that this moment with my child is actually just shedding light on?" Like, ugh, it's not necessarily a smooth or linear path from there, but it, it is a worthwhile path. And, like, really, it sounds like you are on that path, and it's, like, amazing to hear about and, and witness.

    2. UFUnknown Father16:08

       [laughs]

    3. BEDr. Becky16:09

       So thank you.

    4. UFUnknown Father16:11

       Thank you.

    5. BEDr. Becky16:11

       All right. Have a great afternoon.

    6. UFUnknown Father16:13

       Bye.

15. 16:14 – 19:36

    Three takeaways: grounding after triggers, regulating yourself, and honoring cycle breakers

    1. BEDr. Becky16:14

       Bye. So I wanna leave you all with three takeaways. One, remember that our triggers are stories from our past that kind of come alive in our present. It's okay to not know exactly what your triggers are telling you. Just start here after a trigger moment. Instead of chastising yourself, place your feet on the ground, a hand on your heart, and tell yourself, "There's something important here. I'll stay curious. I'll keep listening." Two, remember this big idea. We aren't really responding to our kids' feelings or our kids' meltdowns or our kids' behaviors. We are actually responding to the feelings in our own bodies around what we see with our kids. This is a huge difference, because then we realize that change doesn't come from our kid changing. Change comes from learning to regulate our own experiences. Three, being a cycle breaker is tough. I mean, really, it's epic. You are taking on the weight of all the generations before you, and you're saying, "I know you did the best you could with the resources you had available, and I have other resources, and I am doing things differently. This pattern stops with me." Give yourself credit for taking this on, and know that a cycle breaker's path is never consistent or linear. You're doing a great job. Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com/podcast. You could also write me at podcast@goodinside.com. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world, and parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like-valued parents. It's totally game-changing. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Nuzum at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Natt, and Kristin Mueller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, Jill Cromwell-Wang, Ashley Valenzuela, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle, and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside. [outro music]

Episode duration: 19:36