Tween Friendship Problems: What to Do When Your Child Is Caught in the Middle | Dr. Sheryl

1. 0:00 – 1:01

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   1. SHDr. Sheryl0:00

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2. 1:01 – 1:32

   Why tween friendships get complicated—and the “caught in the middle” problem

   1. SHDr. Sheryl1:01

      it's friendships. This is the age when relationships start getting more complicated. Loyalty matters more, feelings get bigger, and sometimes kids find themselves caught in the middle of dynamics they don't quite know how to handle. For parents, that can raise a really tricky question: How much do I step in, and how much do I let my kid figure it out? Today, I'm talking with a mom whose daughter

3. 1:32 – 3:17

   Show context: The In Between Years and the parenting shift

   1. SHDr. Sheryl1:32

      is navigating exactly this situation, trying to stay friends with two girls who have a difficult history with each other. And like many parents, Mom is wondering how to help her daughter set boundaries, stay out of drama, and understand what is and is not her responsibility to fix. Welcome to The In Between Years, a podcast from Goodinside, a show for anyone raising, caring for, or loving a tween or teen. I'm Dr. Sheryl, a clinical psychologist, mom of three teens, and the author of The Crucial Years. I've spent my entire career working with teens and their families. The in between years are that stretch when kids are no longer little, but not yet fully grown. Friendships shift, emotions get bigger, identity is forming. There's social media, academic pressure, body changes, independence. So many moments that can leave parents wondering what it all means. It's a time of real growth, not just for kids, but for parents, too. This show is here to slow things down, to help you understand what's happening underneath the surface so you can respond instead of react. Because when you feel more confident, your kid feels it, too. Your child may be growing up, but they don't need you less. They just need you differently. Welcome to The In Between Years.

4. 3:17 – 4:49

   Erin’s situation: two close friends who refuse to be around each other

   1. ERErin3:17

      Hi, I'm Erin. I live in New England. My daughter is 10. She'll be 11 this summer. Um, she's finishing up fifth grade, and she has two friends who she's pretty close with each of them, uh, and both of them have difficult dynamics going on there, um, between the two of them. And my daughter has found herself kind of stuck in the middle here and there, right? So, um, just trying to understand how to support her in that. It's, it's, uh, it's trick... I, I don't know what I would do sometimes in, if I were in her situation, much less, you know, how to help her as a parent.

   2. SHDr. Sheryl4:02

      Yeah, absolutely. So tell s- Let me understand this. Are they in like... Is this like a friendship triangle, or is this like there was never-

   3. ERErin4:11

      I guess you could call it a love triangle is-

   4. SHDr. Sheryl4:13

      Yeah. [laughs]

   5. ERErin4:13

      That's kind of how that works, right? Um-

   6. SHDr. Sheryl4:15

      Yep, I'm making triangles-

   7. ERErin4:16

      Yeah

   8. SHDr. Sheryl4:16

      ... as we, as you're talking.

   9. ERErin4:18

      Yep.

   10. SHDr. Sheryl4:18

       Mm-hmm.

   11. ERErin4:18

       Yeah. So she, she wants to play with both of them. They both wanna play with her, and they don't wanna be anywhere near each other. Um, [laughs] and so there's this like who gets to play with her kind of dynamic that's, you know, started, um, in the fall, and then the, the teachers caught wind of this, and it was a whole thing. Um, so I actually got a call home from her teacher about it, just to let me know that they were gonna be meeting with the school counselor to try to, you know, work through some things [laughs]

5. 4:49 – 5:45

   Digital escalation: messages sent from your child’s account and meanness

   1. ERErin4:49

      and, um, try to figure out how do we all coexist on the playground, right? Uh, you know, more recently, our daughter is on Facebook Messenger and, like, Kid- Messenger Kids, right, and is connected to both of them, and sometimes she'll have a playdate with one and they'll wanna call the other one. A couple weeks ago they had a, my... They had a... Daughter had a sleepover with one of them. They ended up calling the other one, uh, and sending some messages, so my daughter's friend was sending messages to the other friend from my daughter's account and ended up getting pretty mean.

   2. SHDr. Sheryl5:31

      Oh.

   3. ERErin5:31

      So now my kid is like, "I don't want this on my Messenger. Can you s- can you just be friends," right, is what I keep kind of hearing from her. Like, "Can you just be friends, please?" Which she doesn't, doesn't have the power to do, unfortunately, right?

6. 5:45 – 9:19

   Seeing the underlying pattern: caretaker/peacemaker roles and responsibility limits

   1. SHDr. Sheryl5:45

      Right. That's right, which is, which is a really important point, and such a hard lesson in life, right? We can't control other people, can only control ourselves and our choices. But one of the things I'm wondering is, does she have any siblings?

   2. ERErin6:01

      Uh, yes, I have two. So my, I have a 10-year-old, and, uh, my other daughter's about to turn eight.

   3. SHDr. Sheryl6:06

      Okay. Okay, got it. So she's got a sibling. Does she ever argue with her? Does she ever have kind of, you know, those typical kind of sibling relationships?

   4. ERErin6:18

      Oh, yeah. Yep. Yep.

   5. SHDr. Sheryl6:20

      Okay. Got it. So as I think about her, I'm wondering what her role is, do you think, in your, in your family. Is she, you know, you could... Nothing prescribed. Is she, like, a peacemaker? Is she, you know, always trying to include people? Does she like time alone? Like, what does she do? What is her role, at least, like, recently, in the last year in your family?

   6. ERErin6:44

      She definitely... I mean, I think even going back more than a year, she takes on a lot, I think, especially with her sister.

   7. SHDr. Sheryl6:54

      So there's a couple of things that I think you, you sound really grounded on. You sound grounded on saying, you know, "Oh, yeah, she can take on a lot. She's a caretaker," right? She wants to make sure people are okay. And you're seeing her in this whole situation with her friends, and you're seeing her struggle, and you're like, "But I..." Like, because we know things like this can happen all throughout lifetime, so you're like, "I'm not even positive how I would handle that," right?

   8. ERErin7:29

      Yeah.

   9. SHDr. Sheryl7:29

      So is she asking you for advice, or is she just using you as somebody to just listen once in a while?

   10. ERErin7:36

       Yeah, I mean, she's not asking. Uh, but it has come to ti- like, situations where I feel like I have to make a decision, and I don't know [laughs] what to do sometimes, right? Um, so, you know, do I... We ended up, like, her friend ended up having to block her Messenger Kids account, and now it's like, do I try to help keep that from having to happen in the future? Do I... You know, the teacher calls and tells me what's going on, and I, you know, definitely feel like I have some role to play, um, there. So she's not directly asking me.

   11. SHDr. Sheryl8:21

       It's really, um, it's really interesting because one of the things I think that you're seeing, 'cause you smiled in such a way, is that, "No, she's actually not asking me for advice, but I'm starting to see, you know, some warning signs that maybe she does need some guidance."

   12. ERErin8:41

       Yeah.

   13. SHDr. Sheryl8:41

       And I love that we're talking about this because she is... I mean, this is, like, the peak age, 10 years old, fifth grade, you know, about to kinda enter into a new stage of going into middle school, and all of the increased pressure in relationships, and they get so much more complicated. And so this is the time where she is going to probably start backing off from being like, "Oh, you know, Mommy, what should I do? What do you think?" Right? Maybe two years ago or your eight-year-olds would do that. But-

   14. ERErin9:14

       Mm

   15. SHDr. Sheryl9:14

       ... at her age, she's like, "Okay, I guess I gotta figure this out," right?

   16. ERErin9:19

       Yep.

7. 9:19 – 13:25

   How to support without “fixing”: observations, empathy, and leaving the door open

   1. SHDr. Sheryl9:19

      And like, "I'm not really sure how to figure this out." And so I love this conversation because I think this is your, this is your opportunity to see, say, "Okay, I can see my role as her parent is shifting," and it's not to just flat out give her advice the way it used to be. But now it's sort of supporting her. And so I think one thing you can start with in terms of support is to just, you know, make a comment or an observation. "I really notice that this whole situation with the two friends is a lot for you." Right? Something like that, just a simple, easy statement. Who knows? But depending on the day, what happened, she might be like, "It's fine." Or she might be like, "Yeah, it's a lot, but I don't know what to do," right? And then you just marinate. That just might be a marinating moment, right? You're just gonna like, okay. If you, you know her best, so if she is sorta looking at you like, "All right, maybe I'm in the mood to talk about this," right, then you just say, like, "I can..." Just an, an empathy statement, a reflection. Um, "This must be really hard." And then just hold the silence. Like, one sentence. Really acknowledging that she's in a tough situation, and she's doing the best she can. And then it's sort of like you have an opportunity to say, "I don't think that I have all the answers, but if you ever wanna talk about it or if you wanna kinda try to come up with some ideas together, like, I'm here for you." She's a fifth grader. She's a 10-year-old, and she is starting to say to herself, "I have to do this on my own. I have to figure this out." Now, sometimes you might be like, "I think it was too much. I think she should've come to me." And then there's a way to say something like, "I know it's really hard right now. You're almost done with fifth grade. You're almost a big middle schooler," or whatever, "And I just want you to know, part of taking care of ourselves is learning how to tell somebody that we need some help, or we just want someone to listen." Because when we fast-forward, right, the roadmap through the teen years, through adulthood, it's one of the things that women struggle the most with, how to ask for help, how to be vulnerable, right?

   2. ERErin11:44

      Yeah.

   3. SHDr. Sheryl11:44

      So she's this, like, lovely caretaker, and she's trying to figure this out, and it's like, I know there's the friendship issue going on, but what I hear so loud and clear is just, like, as a mom, as her parent, "Here's my new shifting role," right? "I'm here for you if you, if you want me, and I won't step in unless there's a safety issue or something that I really am like, 'I had to address it.'" Otherwise, it's like, "I trust you. You're going to keep trying to figure this out, and nobody knows, has all the answers. This isn't easy. So if you ever wanna talk, I'm here." I'm just curious, how is that for you to hear that, like to imagine that?

   4. ERErin12:25

      I mean, I like it 'cause it's, I think, more likely to work [laughs] for like actually inviting conversation than what I... My, my instinct is, is to try to fix it, right, which is not probably the way to tell a person not to go in and try to fix other people's problems. [laughs] So-

   5. SHDr. Sheryl12:51

      Well, I love that you say that though because it is your instinct. I don't know if it's your gut, but it is your, your parenting instinct is to be like, "Oh my gosh, I clearly see this whole situation. I'll worry about..." Right? And maybe when she was five and that, and things were happening on the playground, you were like, "Okay, let's sit down. Let's talk about what we're gonna do tomorrow," you know, and because you were really teaching.

   6. ERErin13:12

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SHDr. Sheryl13:13

      And now, like overtly, and now that she's 10 and she's trying to figure things out on her own, which she doesn't even know that she's trying to, but she's just naturally, it's her job to start-

   8. ERErin13:25

      Right

8. 13:25 – 14:43

   The parent’s developmental shift: letting kids struggle builds competence

   1. SHDr. Sheryl13:25

      ... separating a little bit from you, right? She dips a toe in independence, and then dips a toe back, and being right by your side, is to sort of say like, maybe one of the biggest things to learn is just that, A, you can trust yourself, and I'm here as your parent, and I won't come in to rescue or solve because then I'm robbing you of the opportunity to like figure this stuff on your own. And she's not gonna make perfect choices, and she's going to mess up, and it's literally her job to do that. That is her job, right? So competence, if we want her to make good friendship choices and handle conflict, we gotta let her go through it, right? And that's, I think, having a 10-year-old, that's one of the hardest things to do is like all of a sudden your parenting role is changing. I, I've been asking people this lately because I'm very curious about it. Have you thought to yourself in fifth grade, or maybe it's even longer, but recently, like, huh, what is... Not what is happening with her. That you think about all day long, I'm sure, right? You're at work and you're thinking, "Oh my gosh, how did it go today?" But yourself, do you ever think, "Huh, I guess my role is shifting. I wonder how it's shifting."

9. 14:43 – 18:21

   The grief parents feel: “Where did my little girl go?”

   1. ERErin14:43

      Yeah. I think it's a little fuzzy still, I guess, in terms of like how my role is shifting. I'm thinking a little more in terms of, I guess, the, the relationship shifting, which is, you know, part of that, right? Um, but just, it's that, like, where did my little girl go, [laughs] right?

   2. SHDr. Sheryl15:06

      I know.

   3. ERErin15:07

      Yeah.

   4. SHDr. Sheryl15:07

      What I hear the most from parents is, "I thought I had more time," and, "Where did my little girl or my little guy go?" And it is like heartbreaking sometimes.

   5. ERErin15:21

      Yeah. Sorry.

   6. SHDr. Sheryl15:25

      No, don't be sorry. Like, that emotion is so real, and that's the part of the parenting shift that I don't, not only do we not talk about enough, I, I don't think we talk about at all. We are so focused on the kids and the changes and what's happening in their lives, and, oh, things are getting more complicated, and they're shutting down more, and they're in their room more. And we're very focused on them, and it's like, wait, but this is a loss. It feels like a loss.

   7. ERErin15:51

      Yeah.

   8. SHDr. Sheryl15:51

      And I like to say to people like, "They're not growing away from you. They're actually just growing into themselves," but I think there's a loss there.

   9. ERErin16:03

      Yeah.

   10. SHDr. Sheryl16:03

       And a grief even, right?

   11. ERErin16:05

       Yeah.

   12. SHDr. Sheryl16:05

       Yes. And there is that feeling of like... And, and you have this younger one, so I'm sure there's sometimes where you're just like, "Oh," like, "Where is she?" Or l- you're like, your younger one will be like, "Where's," you know, "Where's sissy?" And you're like, "Oh, she's in her room." And then like we can't g- go, just go in it anymore. There's new rules, right?

   13. ERErin16:26

       Yeah.

   14. SHDr. Sheryl16:26

       Like, we have to knock, right?

   15. ERErin16:28

       Yep.

   16. SHDr. Sheryl16:28

       Or if we don't, maybe she might be annoyed, or like, "Wait a minute. Don't come in," or... And so I really think, like you just said, that's such a good word. I've never used that word to describe it, like this stage is fuzzy. I love though that you know enough to say like, "Things are changing, and I'm not sure how to navigate this," but I guess my focus should just be on like keeping the door open, right? That's connection.

   17. ERErin16:57

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SHDr. Sheryl16:58

       And that, your, your instinct to do that is r- spot on. Because what happens is sometimes parents feel this rejection, and so they, they themselves either start rejecting as well, in their own ways, just like, "Oh, I won't even ask them to come down for this," or, "Oh, I won't see if they wanna do ice cream after school 'cause I know they won't. They're gonna wanna hang out with their friends," or, right, they do that or, and I think it's like 50/50, or they start chasing. Like, "Do you wanna do this? Hey, do you wanna go get your nails done? Hey, do you wanna bake something with me?" Like things that you've liked to do in the past, and then you get the, "No, I'm good." And you're like, "Really? You don't even like wanna go get ice cream or do- get your nails?" "No, I'm fine." And so I, I guess right now as you're like really tapped into that emotion, I'm wondering if you can imagine in the moments where that happens, you being able to sort of almost like a mantra, like remind yourself like, "I am actually doing my job," 'cause her job is to grow into herself, and my job is to raise an adult. And it hurts, and it's hard, but I'm actually doing my job, and so is she, and I think it's going pretty well. Do you think you- that would be, like, a reframe you could imagine using in certain moments?

10. 18:21 – 19:47

    Fear of doing it wrong—and how repair keeps connection strong

    1. ERErin18:21

       Yeah. [clears throat] I think I could. I think it, for me, I'm almost, like, hesitant to bring things up, nes- like, right? Like, I'm afraid I'm gonna do it wrong, basically.

    2. SHDr. Sheryl18:35

       Yeah.

    3. ERErin18:35

       [laughs] So, right? I don't... I know that my instinct is telling me to go fix it-

    4. SHDr. Sheryl18:41

       Mm-hmm

    5. ERErin18:41

       ... and I know that that's ju- not gonna work.

    6. SHDr. Sheryl18:44

       But you're saying so many things that I know right now, parents are listening and they're like, "Me too, me too, me too," which is, "I don't wanna do this wrong. I don't wanna mess this up. I don't wanna say something that's gonna drive them away." And you can't possibly do that. Like, if your focus is your connection with her-

    7. ERErin19:04

       Right

    8. SHDr. Sheryl19:05

       ... right? And let's say you, quote, "mess something up." You- you're like, "Oh, I gave advice and it wasn't invited," the beautiful thing about your relationship, especially at this age, is you can go back and say, "You know what? You know how earlier I said that thing and you didn't even ask me? I am really sorry that I did that, and I just want you to know that I'm here for you, I trust you, and I love you." Essentially, what you're saying is, "I just wanna stay connected to her, so how do I do that?"

    9. ERErin19:39

       Yeah. Yeah.

    10. SHDr. Sheryl19:39

        Right? "I want her to trust me. I want to be her home base. I wanna be her anchor." What does that look like, do you think?

11. 19:47 – 22:53

    Connection rituals that work: bedtime check-ins and low-agenda presence

    1. ERErin19:47

       I think for me, like, when I sort of feel like I'm doing it right, um-

    2. SHDr. Sheryl19:52

       Yes

    3. ERErin19:53

       ... I find a time when she's gone to bed, or I'm sending her to Braylin. Like, I'm trying not to just, like, send her to bed at night and just say, like, "You got this. You're 10. You can just go upstairs. See you tomorrow." Um, and I'll, you know, just knock and ask if I can come in, and just see if she wants to talk. Like, nothing in particular, just no, um, no agenda per se, right?

    4. SHDr. Sheryl20:19

       Mm-hmm.

    5. ERErin20:19

       But just what's going on? And, you know, she'll paint my nails or tell me about her book she's reading. Um, so, like, those are times I feel like I'm like, "Okay, I did it," [laughs] right? Um, and, like, I try to tell myself that that's the stuff, right, that's gonna make her, um, sort of feel like I'm more available for the other things, right? Um, and then I, I mean, I don't know. I guess the best I can do on, like, kind of opening specific doors, um, has been just kind of in passing, like, "Oh, hey," like, "Did you wanna talk about that?" Or, "You ever wanna talk about that, let me know." Just, like, walk away, [laughs] right?

    6. SHDr. Sheryl21:04

       [laughs] Yep. Yeah. You know, I really wanna highlight something you said. I'm so glad you said it. We don't celebrate ourselves enough, right? And so I love that you said, "Well, I think what- what that would look like is like- like I've already done it sometimes," right? "It's the days that I show up the way I envision myself to, the way I want to."

    7. ERErin21:28

       Mm-hmm.

    8. SHDr. Sheryl21:28

       Remember you know how to do this. You are connected already. And, like, the way we're gonna keep growing, we as parents, is by, like, the things we tell our kids too, like, let's remember the good stuff we are already doing, right? The bad stuff and the... That's all fear, and fear actually doesn't keep us moving forward. We usually make pretty poor choices when we're scared. Like, remember, like, whether it was that day or another day, I did this thing really well, and maybe I didn't get a chance to do that today. Hopefully, tomorrow I will. I'm gonna try to do that tomorrow. You know? And we build on that. So I'm wondering how this is all resonating with you.

    9. ERErin22:10

       It feels like I- I noticed we shifted.

    10. SHDr. Sheryl22:15

        [laughs]

    11. ERErin22:15

        We're- we're-

    12. SHDr. Sheryl22:16

        We did

    13. ERErin22:16

        ... we're far away, in a sense, right, from this-

    14. SHDr. Sheryl22:19

        Yeah. Well, are we gonna talk about her and her friend?

    15. ERErin22:22

        ... like, specific situation. [laughs] Which I know, that's- that's obviously... Like, I can tell you, right, part of what makes it difficult to support her is what's going on for me, right? Thinking through the situation and yeah. But I guess to take it back to the s- specific situation, I mean, it sounds like just mentioning it, like, not... Just not pretending I'm [laughs] not aware all the time is, like, all it hopefully will take.

12. 22:53 – 27:39

    “Sprinkles” of wisdom: share relatable stories instead of giving direct advice

    1. SHDr. Sheryl22:53

       Yeah. I mean, you have to start, though, with that foundation, right, of at this age and moving forward, and it's not gonna change for maybe ever, but for a very long time. Th- they are gonna want, they meaning kids this age, right, are just, things are on their terms. When they're in the mood to talk, like, it- it sounds easy, but it's not. Like, when they're in the mood to talk, like, all of a sudden, that's when you're like, you've got... You're gonna have to tell yourself, like, "Whew, I wasn't expecting this right now, and I can put down what I'm doing," if you literally can, because time becomes very precious, right? Like, there- there's- they have these little windows, and they'll... The windows will keep opening and closing, but they do sort of close sometimes, right? So starting with yourself, knowing that they don't want our advice, usually. When they're younger, they totally do, you know? 'Cause we're- you're the most amazing, smart, beautiful, know everything person on planet Earth, right? Probably that- it's probably still w- that way for your eight-year-old. Like, you know, they- they're just like, "You know everything, Mom. Like, my tummy hurts. You know what to do. I have a fever. You know what to do. I wanna go here. You figure out how to get us there." Like, you're the most amazing person, and now we're in fifth grade and 10 years old, and it's like, "Actually, I kinda have a- my own life that you don't know everything about, so you kinda can't really give me advice 'cause you're not- you're not there, Mom," right? They have more awareness of the complexities- And so it's not just like, "Oh, that sounds really hard." It's really like, "I'm present to this situation." And, um, y- you know, you can do, I call them, like, you can call them anything. Sometimes I call them, like, sprinkling or little, like, there's little nuggets of wisdom, right? So when you're like, "Okay, I'm biting my tongue to not give advice 'cause I really wanna give advice and but they're not asking me for it," right? We all know that feeling, when you're not looking for someone's advice and they give it to you. Like, we [laughs] hate that.

    2. ERErin24:53

       Yeah.

    3. SHDr. Sheryl24:53

       But-

    4. ERErin24:53

       And, and a 10-year-old will make it very clear. [laughs]

    5. SHDr. Sheryl24:56

       Yes, they will.

    6. ERErin24:57

       They hate that. Yes.

    7. SHDr. Sheryl24:57

       They'll give you feedback. It's a gift. [laughs]

    8. ERErin24:59

       Yep. Yep.

    9. SHDr. Sheryl25:00

       But here's what you can do that they, that I find that they are receptive to, and it's great because it's low pressure, but it's high impact, which is like, "Gosh, I've been thinking about what was go- what's been going on with your two friends, and I've been thinking about how I've, I kind of can understand how hard this must be. One time," you know, whatever, "I had this, I had a situation that was kind of like that, and I just felt like I couldn't make anybody happy." Right? And that's it. So now what you're doing is you're saying, you're doing a little empathy, and you're saying ... And it has to be genuine, right? So whether I've been in that situation, or I've, I knew someone that w- was in it, whatever, it's genuine. But and you just say, like, "And I remember," and then whatever it is, the point you're trying to make to her. "I remember I didn't feel like I had anybody to talk to," or, "I remember feeling like everything I tried just failed." Right? Or, "I remember," whatever her thing is. Like, "I remember feeling like I just wish that I could change them, and why won't they listen to me? I just wish they would listen to me." And so this is what I always say. When you do that, one of two things are gonna happen. Pure silence. Pure silence means that landed. Because if it doesn't land, they'll look at you and be like, "You don't, you don't even know. Like, you don't [laughs] even know," right? Whatever. Some version of, like, you know, "You don't know what, what I'm going through." Right? And so then you know, "Okay, I, I missed the mark a little bit. Next time I drop this little nugget, I won't make it about trying to change other people. I'll make it about feeling like I didn't know who to talk to." Right? So I promise you that r- is really not nothing. That's, like, a collection of data. You say something, and put yourself in adult shoes. If we're ... Right? If we're talking even right now, and I say something and it's landing with you and it's provoking emotion, like, you're gonna be quiet, and you're gonna be soaking that in. If I say something really off, like, you know, "You're just, you know, you're, you just wanna be her best friend, and you can't be her best friend," and you're like, "Wait, what? That's not what I was saying," you're gonna tell me. You're gonna be like, "Well, I don't, I don't think so. I'm not looking to be her best friend." Right? And so if I say something that's off and mismatched with how you're feeling, you're gonna give me fe- feedback. Like, you're not even gonna think about it. You're just gonna give me the feedback. If I say something that lands, you're either gonna be quiet and soak that in, and maybe you're not ready to talk about it yet, so you're not gonna say anything, or you're gonna be quiet, you're gonna soak it in, and you're gonna say something, 'cause I've created a safe space where you feel seen and understood, even though I don't know all the details. Does that make sense?

    10. ERErin27:38

        Yeah.

13. 27:39 – 31:15

    From drama to decision-making: focus on controllables and boundary practice at home

    1. SHDr. Sheryl27:39

       So if you haven't tried it, I really want you to try it. It works kind of magically well, and you're gonna realize, like, "Oh, yeah, it was silent after that thing." You note it, right? Like, even if you didn't have a big talk, it's a notation. You note it, and you follow up again the next right opportunity or whatever opportunity you have. Um, you know, I think your inclination, which I get it, to be like, "I want some steps," right? To, to be able to give her, is what you wanna do for her, right? Is what you wanna do for her, and actually what she probably kinda wants to do for herself, but we're all missing the point if we go down that hole, which is we really cannot control other people. She can only control herself. She can make her decision-making. So messaging a friend when you're with their enemy, probably in the category of, like, "How'd that work out? Not so great? Maybe we don't do that again." Right?

    2. ERErin28:42

       Yeah.

    3. SHDr. Sheryl28:42

       Like, that was a real, "You want something concrete? I don't even need to know what she said in that message. I don't know."

    4. ERErin28:48

       Right.

    5. SHDr. Sheryl28:49

       "But I know it was a bad idea." [laughs] Right?

    6. ERErin28:52

       Right.

    7. SHDr. Sheryl28:52

       And these are the things-

    8. ERErin28:53

       So I think, I mean, the trouble I have is wanting to help her with ... Like, I think that was a situation where if she could set a boundary and say, "We're not gonna do this. I'm gonna shut off my tablet," right?

    9. SHDr. Sheryl29:04

       Yep. Yep.

    10. ERErin29:06

        But I can't.

    11. SHDr. Sheryl29:07

        Yep.

    12. ERErin29:07

        I feel like I can't give her that, so.

    13. SHDr. Sheryl29:09

        But you know what you can give her? She's, she can practice setting boundaries with you, and you can practice respecting them, right? So we don't realize that, but when kids are pushing away, becoming defiant, not listening, they literally are practicing what they're supposed to be doing, right? So, like, the idea that she comes home, and maybe she's, she doesn't sound like she's this yet, but, you know, she's grumpy. She's whatever. She doesn't really wanna talk to you. Doesn't wanna even eat dinner with everyone. She wants to just stay in her room. And, like, you know, you co- you're not gonna just be like, "Okay, whatever." You know, you knock on her door and say, "Hey, I can tell today's a day you don't really wanna come down and spend some time with the family. Um, I just want you to know that we're here." So she, you are doing something, I promise. You are doing something very tangible for her. Like, this is the way I negotiate this with my parenting relationship. Okay, this is what works. And, and sibling. And now I go out into the world, and I practice some of those things, and then I see what the world tells me about that. Then I come back home, and I do it there. That's why they come back home sometimes and yell at you, and da da da da, all the things. Like, and then they go back out. They're in, and they're out. So you are doing something. It look really important. Thank you. So much for sharing. So much of what you said, I think, is so relatable to what parents are saying, but sometimes don't have those, even the words. So you've got, you've got not just the words for it, but you're really thinking about this intentionally, and that comes through. Like, just in your presence, it comes through. So I know when she's in your presence, it comes through. She knows it. So presence all of a sudden becomes so valuable. With a two-year-old, presence looks different. You have to be so physical. It's such a different story. But at 10, presence in a loud, busy world is priceless. So thank you so much for sharing your story.

    14. SPSpeaker31:10

        Thank you.

14. 31:15 – 33:16

    Closing reflections: stepping out of the middle and offering steady presence

    1. SHDr. Sheryl31:15

       Before we wrap up, I wanna come back to something at the heart of this conversation. When kids are around 10, friendships start getting more layered: loyalty, conflict, group dynamics. All of it becomes more complex, and sometimes kids find themselves trying to hold together relationships that were never really theirs to manage in the first place. Part of growing up is learning that you can care about people without being responsible for fixing their relationship with each other. And for parents, the work is often about helping our kids step out of the middle, while still feeling steady and supported as they navigate the social world around them. Erin, thank you so much for sharing what your daughter is going through, and thank you for sharing what you're going through as a parent of a tween. The letting go, the insecurity, and the fear is something parents go through, but often never name. This conversation reminds us that our presence during this time is often the best thing we can give to our kids. Okay, let's end by zooming out. Deep breath. This in-between stage feels hard, 'cause it is hard. If you remember nothing else, remember this: They act like they don't need you. They still need you. I'll see you next week. [outro music]

Episode duration: 33:16