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Dr. Melissa Ilardo on Huberman Lab: Why Behavior Alters DNA

Spleen size expands through behavioral pressure in one generation; Ilardo explains the dive reflex, epigenetic marks, and how these traits pass to descendants.

Andrew HubermanhostDr. Melissa Ilardoguest
May 26, 20251h 52mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

How Everyday Behaviors Reshape Human Genes, Brains, Bodies, And Lineages

  1. Andrew Huberman and geneticist Dr. Melissa Ilardo explore how human genetics, epigenetics, and behavior interact to sculpt our bodies and abilities—sometimes in just one generation, sometimes across many. They focus on real-world “superhuman” populations such as Indonesian Bajau sea nomads and Korean Haenyeo women divers, showing how extreme breath-hold diving in cold water has shaped spleen size, red blood cell dynamics, heart function, and pregnancy adaptations. The discussion ranges from mate choice via body odor and immune genetics to rapid human evolution, cross-breeding with archaic humans, and how trauma, famine, and lifestyle can leave epigenetic marks passed to descendants. They close by examining the promises and ethical risks of human gene editing and how beliefs about our genes can themselves alter our biology and performance.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Behavior Can Rapidly Reshape Gene Expression—And Sometimes Future Generations

While DNA sequence is largely fixed, gene expression is highly dynamic and influenced by environment and behavior on timescales from minutes to generations. Epigenetic changes—chemical tags on DNA and associated proteins—can arise from stressors like famine or trauma and be passed to descendants, as seen in Dutch famine survivors and refugee populations. These inherited epigenetic modifications may be adaptive in one context (e.g., food scarcity) but maladaptive in modern abundance.

The Mammalian Dive Reflex Is A Potent, Underappreciated Human System

Immersing the face in cold water while holding the breath triggers a reflex that slows heart rate, constricts peripheral vessels, and causes the spleen to contract, releasing ~10% more oxygen-rich red blood cells into circulation. This is a much larger acute oxygen boost than many popular training hacks provide. The effect is transient—once normal breathing resumes, the spleen gradually re-sequesters those cells—but in populations that dive constantly, this reflex becomes central to survival and performance.

Sea Nomads Have Genetically Enlarged Spleens That Act As Natural Oxygen Tanks

Bajau sea nomads of Indonesia, who dive daily for food, have spleens about 50% larger than neighboring non-diving villagers living in similar environments. This difference is present in Bajau divers and non-divers alike, indicating a genetic rather than purely training effect. Genetic analyses identified a thyroid-related variant associated with higher-than-average thyroid hormone, larger spleens, and increased red blood cell counts—an erythropoietin-independent pathway that could one day inform legal performance enhancement or treatments for hypoxia.

Female Haenyeo Divers Show Both Trained And Genetic Cardiovascular Adaptations

Korean Haenyeo women on Jeju Island dive into very cold water, often into their 70s and 80s, and historically did so throughout pregnancy. Lifelong diving training produces an exaggerated dive reflex: some Haenyeo experience heart-rate drops of >40 beats per minute in under 15 seconds when submerging. Genetically, they also appear to carry variants that blunt diving-related blood pressure spikes, likely protecting against hypertensive pregnancy disorders such as preeclampsia—mechanisms that could be mined for future maternal-health therapies.

Mate Choice Is Quietly Shaped By Immune Genetics And Smell

Both mice and humans tend to prefer mates whose major histocompatibility complex (MHC)—a key immune gene cluster—differs most from their own. In a classic study, people smelled sweaty T‑shirts of potential partners and rated most attractive the odors produced by individuals with the most dissimilar MHC. This ‘hybrid vigor’ bias increases immune gene diversity in offspring and shows how subconscious scent preferences can function as a sophisticated genetic filter.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

As long as there are things that are affecting our ability to reproduce, we're gonna continue to evolve.

Dr. Melissa Ilardo

Most mutations are deleterious. We actually don't even see most mutations because they kill the offspring before it even becomes a fetus.

Dr. Melissa Ilardo

The spleen is like a biological scuba tank, increasing the amount of oxygen available to you when you need it the most.

Dr. Melissa Ilardo

People were more drawn to people who had very different immune systems than their own. That smell is a proxy for the immune system of the offspring you haven't even had yet.

Andrew Huberman and Dr. Melissa Ilardo (paraphrased exchange)

Just because you can train a European runner to compete at nearly the same level doesn’t mean there’s not something special about people like Kipchoge.

Dr. Melissa Ilardo

Genetics vs. epigenetics: what can and cannot be modified by behaviorMammalian dive reflex, spleen function, and breath-hold diving adaptationsHuman evolution in real time: Bajau and Haenyeo diving populationsMate choice, immune system genetics, and body-odor-based attractionArchaic admixture (Neanderthals, Denisovans) and modern human traitsPhysiological and genetic adaptations in pregnancy and cardiovascular healthEthics and future of human gene editing and genetic testing

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