Dr. Melissa Ilardo on Huberman Lab: Why Behavior Alters DNA

Spleen size expands through behavioral pressure in one generation; Ilardo explains the dive reflex, epigenetic marks, and how these traits pass to descendants.

Andrew HubermanhostDr. Melissa Ilardoguest

May 26, 20251h 52mWatch on YouTube ↗

EPISODE INFO

Released: May 26, 2025
Duration: 1h 52m
Channel: Huberman Lab
Watch on YouTube: ▶ Open ↗

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

My guest is Dr. Melissa Ilardo, Ph.D., professor of biomedical informatics at the University of Utah. We discuss the interplay between genes and behaviors, including how certain behaviors can improve resilience by changing gene and organ function, as well as natural selection events happening in humans today. We also discuss the immune system–related reasons people find the smells of potential mates attractive—or not. We explore how physical and psychological traits are passed from one generation to the next, and the specific behaviors that can influence gene expression to improve health and performance. Melissa explains her lab’s pioneering research on breath-hold training and how activation of the dive reflex through breath holding can significantly improve oxygen availability by changing spleen size and function. We also delve into the medical uses and ethics of gene editing to cure disease in both babies and adults. For those interested in genes and inheritance, human performance, immune system function, and natural selection, this episode illustrates the remarkable interplay between human nature and nurture. Read the episode show notes: https://go.hubermanlab.com/tceBStZ *Thank you to our sponsors* AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman Joovv: https://joovv.com/huberman Eight Sleep: https://eightsleep.com/huberman LMNT: https://drinklmnt.com/huberman Function: https://functionhealth.com/huberman *Follow Huberman Lab* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hubermanlab Threads: https://www.threads.net/@hubermanlab X: https://twitter.com/hubermanlab Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hubermanlab TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hubermanlab LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-huberman Website: https://www.hubermanlab.com Newsletter: https://www.hubermanlab.com/newsletter *Dr. Melissa Ilardo* University of Utah academic profile: https://medicine.utah.edu/faculty/melissa-ilardo Lab website: https://www.superhumanlab.org Superhuman Lab – Media Coverage: https://www.superhumanlab.org/pages/5230 National Geographic article: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/health/article/jeju-korea-women-divers-genetic-adaptations Bodies Remodeled for a Life at Sea (The New York Times): https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/19/science/bajau-evolution-ocean-diving.html How Asia's Super Divers Evolved for a Life At Sea (The Atlantic): https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/bajau-sea-nomads-diving-evolution-spleen/558359 ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Melissa-Ilardo Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/superhumanscilab LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissa-ilardo *Timestamps* 00:00:00 Melissa Ilardo 00:02:35 Nature vs Nurture, Gene Expression, Eye Color 00:07:06 Sponsors: Joovv & Eight Sleep 00:10:24 Epigenetics, Trauma, Mutations; Hybrid Vigor, Mate Attraction 00:15:47 Globalization; Homo Sapiens, Mating & Evolution; Mutations 00:25:28 Sea Nomads, Bajau & Moken Groups; Free Diving, Dangers & Gasp Reflex 00:32:52 Cultural Traditions, Free Diving & Families; Fishing 00:35:36 Mammalian Dive Reflex, Oxygen, Spleen, Cold Water & Face; Exercise 00:42:43 Sponsors: AG1 & LMNT 00:46:00 Free Diving, Spleen, Thyroid Hormone, Performance Enhancement 00:52:00 Dive Reflex, Immune System; Swimming & Health; Coastal Regions & Genetics 00:55:17 Female Free Divers, Haenyeo, Cold Water, Age, Protein 01:03:20 Human Evolution & Diet, Lactase, Fat 01:05:07 Korean Female Free Divers & Adaptations, Cardiovascular, Pregnancy 01:10:13 Miscarriages & Genetic Selection; Bajau, External Appearance, Mate Selection 01:17:15 Sponsor: Function 01:19:03 Free Diving, Underwater Vision; Super-Performers & Genetics 01:25:01 Cognitive Performance, Autism, Creativity; Genetic Determinism & Mindset 01:36:30 Genetics & Ethics, CRISPR, Embryo Genetic Screening 01:44:36 Admixture, Genetics; Are Humans a Single Species? 01:49:39 Zero-Cost Support, YouTube, Spotify & Apple Follow & Reviews, Sponsors, YouTube Feedback, Protocols Book, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter Disclaimer & Disclosures: https://www.hubermanlab.com/disclaimer

SPEAKERS

Andrew Huberman
host
Dr. Melissa Ilardo
guest

EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Huberman Lab, featuring Andrew Huberman and Dr. Melissa Ilardo, Dr. Melissa Ilardo on Huberman Lab: Why Behavior Alters DNA explores how Everyday Behaviors Reshape Human Genes, Brains, Bodies, And Lineages Andrew Huberman and geneticist Dr. Melissa Ilardo explore how human genetics, epigenetics, and behavior interact to sculpt our bodies and abilities—sometimes in just one generation, sometimes across many. They focus on real-world “superhuman” populations such as Indonesian Bajau sea nomads and Korean Haenyeo women divers, showing how extreme breath-hold diving in cold water has shaped spleen size, red blood cell dynamics, heart function, and pregnancy adaptations. The discussion ranges from mate choice via body odor and immune genetics to rapid human evolution, cross-breeding with archaic humans, and how trauma, famine, and lifestyle can leave epigenetic marks passed to descendants. They close by examining the promises and ethical risks of human gene editing and how beliefs about our genes can themselves alter our biology and performance.

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