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How to Improve at Learning Using Neuroscience & AI | Dr. Terry Sejnowski

In this episode, my guest is Dr. Terry Sejnowski, Ph.D., professor of computational neurobiology at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies. He is world-renowned for exploring how our brain processes and stores information and, with that understanding, for developing tools that enable us to markedly improve our ability to learn all types of information and skills. We discuss how to learn most effectively in order to truly master a subject or skill. Dr. Sejnowski explains how to use AI tools to forage for new information, generate ideas, predict the future, and assist in analyzing health data and making health-related decisions. We also explore non-AI strategies to enhance learning and creativity, including how specific types of exercise can improve mitochondrial function and cognitive performance. Listeners will gain insights into how computational methods and AI are transforming our understanding of brain function, learning, and memory, as well as the emerging roles of these tools in addressing personal health and treating brain diseases such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. Read the full show notes for this episode: https://go.hubermanlab.com/IRFAS30 Pre-order Andrew's new book, Protocols: https://go.hubermanlab.com/protocols *Thank you to our sponsors* AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/huberman Helix Sleep: https://helixsleep.com/huberman David Protein: https://davidprotein.com/huberman LMNT: https://drinklmnt.com/huberman Joovv: https://joovv.com/huberman *Dr. Terry Sejnowski* Salk Institute academic profile: https://www.salk.edu/scientist/terrence-sejnowski Books: https://amzlink.to/az0l36dRaKyxv Lab website: https://cnl.salk.edu Publications: https://www.salk.edu/scientist/terrence-sejnowski/publications UC San Diego: https://biology.ucsd.edu/research/faculty/tsejnowski Coursera courses: https://www.coursera.org/instructor/terry Substack: https://terrysejnowski.substack.com X: https://x.com/sejnowski LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terry-sejnowski-b89b7b122 *Timestamps* 00:00:00 Dr. Terry Sejnowski 00:02:32 Sponsors: BetterHelp & Helix Sleep 00:05:19 Brain Structure & Function, Algorithmic Level 00:11:49 Basal Ganglia; Learning & Value Function 00:15:23 Value Function, Reward & Punishment 00:19:14 Cognitive vs. Procedural Learning, Active Learning, AI 00:25:56 Learning & Brain Storage 00:30:08 Traveling Waves, Sleep Spindles, Memory 00:32:08 Sponsors: AG1 & David 00:34:57 Tool: Increase Sleep Spindles; Memory, Ambien; Prescription Drugs 00:42:02 Psilocybin, Brain Connectivity 00:45:58 Tool: ‘Learning How to Learn’ Course 00:49:36 Learning, Generational Differences, Technology, Social Media 00:58:37 Sponsors: LMNT & Joovv 01:01:06 Draining Experiences, AI & Social Media 01:06:52 Vigor & Aging, Continued Learning, Tool: Exercise & Mitochondrial Function 01:12:17 Tool: Cognitive Velocity; Quick Stressors, Mitochondria 01:16:58 AI, Imagined Futures, Possibilities 01:27:14 AI & Mapping Potential Options, Schizophrenia 01:30:56 Schizophrenia, Ketamine, Depression 01:36:15 AI, “Idea Pump,” Analyzing Research 01:42:11 AI, Medicine & Diagnostic Tool; Predicting Outcomes 01:50:04 Parkinson’s Disease; Cognitive Velocity & Variables; Amphetamines 01:59:49 Free Will; Large Language Model (LLM), Personalities & Learning 02:12:40 Tool: Idea Generation, Mind Wandering, Learning 02:18:18 Dreams, Unconscious, Types of Dreams 02:22:56 Future Projects, Brain & Self-Attention 02:31:39 Zero-Cost Support, YouTube, Spotify & Apple Follow & Reviews, Sponsors, YouTube Feedback, Protocols Book, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter #HubermanLab #Neuroscience #ArtificialIntelligence #AI #Science Disclaimer & Disclosures: https://www.hubermanlab.com/disclaimer

Andrew HubermanhostTerry Sejnowskiguest
Nov 17, 20242h 34mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Neuroscience, Algorithms, And AI Reveal Simple Rules For Better Learning

  1. Andrew Huberman interviews computational neuroscientist Dr. Terry Sejnowski about how algorithms in the brain and in AI can dramatically improve learning, motivation, and treatment of brain disorders. Sejnowski explains that a single reinforcement-learning–like value function, implemented via dopamine and the basal ganglia, underlies our motivation, skill acquisition, and many social behaviors. They explore why procedural practice is indispensable for real mastery, how sleep and exercise enhance memory via mechanisms like sleep spindles and mitochondria, and how AI can be used as an ‘idea pump’ and research partner rather than a human replacement. The conversation also touches on disorders such as Parkinson’s, schizophrenia, and depression, and how insights from neuromodulators, metabolism, and AI may reshape their treatment.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Your Motivation And Habits Run On A Single ‘Value Function’ Algorithm

The basal ganglia implement a simple reinforcement learning rule: predict future reward, compare it to actual reward, and update synapses based on the error signal. Over time this builds a ‘value function’ that encodes what is good or bad for you—across motor skills (tennis serve), thinking (problem-solving), and social behavior (relationships, culture, language norms). Both positive rewards and punishments train this system; negative, high-salience events (e.g., trauma, bad relationships) can create powerful one-trial learning that shapes behavior for decades (including PTSD-like patterns). Practically, you can harness this by deliberately noticing what felt better or worse than expected and adjusting your actions and strategies iteratively.

You Need Both Procedural Practice And Conceptual Understanding To Truly Learn

The brain has two major learning systems: a cortical, cognitive system (explicit knowledge, rules, concepts) and a subcortical, procedural system (basal ganglia; automatic skills). Classroom lectures and reading mainly train the cognitive system; problem sets, drills, and real-world practice train the procedural system. Sejnowski and Oakley’s MOOC “Learning How to Learn” (free on Coursera) shows that active recall, problem-solving, and spaced practice are essential—merely hearing or rereading information does not build the robust, generalizable competence needed for physics, medicine, or even basic numeracy. Policies that remove practice because it is ‘stressful’ deprive students of the only mechanism that automates skill and makes cognition efficient.

Sleep Spindles And REM Sleep Are Non‑Negotiable For Memory And Skill Consolidation

During non‑REM sleep, brief circular traveling waves called sleep spindles (1–2 seconds long) help transfer recent experiences from the hippocampus into stable cortical memory without overwriting existing knowledge. More (and higher-quality) spindles correlate with better next‑day recall. Zolpidem (Ambien) roughly doubles spindle count and can double memory consolidation for material learned before taking it—but it impairs encoding of new experiences after ingestion, explaining blackout-like episodes in travelers. REM sleep, by contrast, appears especially important for motor system tuning and perhaps emotional processing. The practical implication: prioritize sufficient nightly sleep, avoid chronic REM/spindle suppression (e.g., via some drugs or substances), and use behavioral tools (exercise, consistent schedules) before relying on pharmacology.

Exercise Is A Global ‘Drug’ That Rejuvenates Mitochondria, Brain, And Learning

Mitochondria provide cellular energy (ATP) and degrade with age and certain medications, contributing to reduced vigor and cognitive slowing. Regular physical exercise increases mitochondrial number and efficiency across organ systems, improves neurogenesis (e.g., in hippocampus), enhances synaptic plasticity, and supports sleep quality—all of which boost learning and cognitive resilience. Interval-style efforts (short all‑out sprints interspersed with easy movement) can be particularly potent for muscle and cardiovascular adaptations. Long-term education and continuous cognitive engagement likewise build a ‘cognitive reserve’ that delays clinical onset of dementia, suggesting that mental and physical ‘training’ throughout life are both forms of energy and resilience banking.

AI And Large Language Models Are Tools, Not Replacements, For Human Intelligence

Modern AI systems (transformers, large language models) learn by predicting the next word and, in doing so, build internal semantic models of language and world structure. They implement algorithms akin to those in the brain’s circuits (e.g., reinforcement learning in AlphaGo mirroring basal ganglia; self‑attention mirroring temporal context operations the brain must perform). Doctors already achieve higher diagnostic accuracy when they use AI as an assistant (e.g., dermatologists plus AI reaching ~98% accuracy vs. ~90% alone). Researchers like Sejnowski’s colleague Rusty Gage use AI as an ‘idea pump’ to propose novel experiments from existing data. The near‑term opportunity is symbiosis: humans provide depth, judgment, and values; AI provides breadth, speed, and pattern discovery.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

We know the algorithm the brain uses to learn sequences of actions to achieve a goal. It’s simply to predict the next reward you’re going to get and update based on the error.

Terry Sejnowski

We have two major learning systems. We have a cognitive learning system, which is cortical, and we have a procedural learning system, which is subcortical, basal ganglia. And the two go hand in hand.

Terry Sejnowski

Exercise is the best drug you could ever take. It’s the cheapest drug you could ever take, that can help every organ in your body.

Terry Sejnowski

Everybody’s worried that AI is going to replace us and make humans obsolete. Nothing could be further from the case. Our strengths and weaknesses are different, and by working together we’ll be stronger.

Terry Sejnowski

Once you know something about how the brain works, you can take advantage of that. The key is to think about the problem before you go to sleep and let your brain work on it.

Terry Sejnowski

Reinforcement learning, dopamine, and the brain’s value function for motivationProcedural vs. cognitive learning and how to actually learn betterSleep architecture, sleep spindles, and memory consolidationMitochondria, exercise, and age-related changes in energy and cognitionAI and large language models as models of brain algorithms and tools for discoveryNeurological and psychiatric disorders (Parkinson’s, schizophrenia, depression, autism)Temporal context, self-attention, and future directions in brain–AI research

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