Overcoming Physical & Emotional Challenges | Coleman Ruiz

1. 0:00 – 1:55

   Coleman Ruiz

   1. AHAndrew Huberman0:00

      (uptempo music) Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Coleman Ruiz. Coleman Ruiz is a former Tier 1 Navy SEAL special operator. I think it's fair to assume that most of you have never heard of Coleman Ruiz before, and in fact, it was part of his former life job description to be largely covert, such that only his family and friends really knew what he did for a living. He is, however, now living as a civilian, and the reason I invited Coleman on this podcast was essentially to tell us his life story, which, of course, includes his time in the SEAL teams, but includes so much more that I'm certain is of value to everyone. Today, Coleman shares with you his remarkable journey from childhood through his teenage years into the military and some of the things that happened during his time in the military, which then informed his post-military civilian life and what it is to be a father, a husband, and somebody who has experienced tremendous loss at various stages of his life, as well as tremendous triumph. Indeed, if ever there was a life that could be framed within the context of the so-called hero's journey, it is the life of Coleman Ruiz. Coleman Ruiz's life is one that embodies focus and pursuit, family and friends and love, all the things that we think of in terms of having a rich life, but also one that includes many unforeseen tragedies, many unforeseen challenges, both internal and external. Coleman also shares with a rare and extraordinary degree of vulnerability the extent to which challenges in life, both external and internal, have helped shape him as a human being. What follows is a discussion that everyone, male, female, young, or old, and regardless of position in life, is sure to derive tremendous benefit from.

2. 1:55 – 6:06

   Sponsors: BetterHelp, Maui Nui Venison & Eight Sleep

   1. AHAndrew Huberman1:55

      Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is BetterHelp. BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out entirely online. I've been doing therapy for over 30 years. Initially, I started therapy because, well, I was required to in order to stay in school, but eventually, I just decided to keep doing it because I found it to be very beneficial. There are essentially three things that great therapy provides. First of all, it provides a rapport with somebody that you can trust and talk about all issues with. Second of all, they can provide support in the form of emotional support or directed guidance. And third, expert therapy can provide useful insights that you wouldn't have otherwise had access to. In fact, I consider doing regular therapy as important as working out one's body in the gym or through cardiovascular exercise. And with BetterHelp, scheduling and doing therapy becomes extremely convenient. They can match you to a therapist that can provide those three things, excellent rapport, support, and insight, and they can do so on a schedule that matches yours. If you'd like to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month. Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman. Today's episode is also brought to us by Maui Nui Venison. Maui Nui Venison is the most nutrient-dense and delicious red meat available. I've spoken before on this podcast and with several expert guests on this podcast about the fact that most of us should be seeking to get about one gram of quality protein per pound of body weight every day. Not only does that protein provide critical building blocks for things like muscle repair and synthesis, but also for overall metabolism and health. Eating enough quality protein each day is also a terrific way to stave off hunger. One of the key things, however, is to make sure that you're getting enough quality protein without ingesting excess calories. Maui Nui Venison has an extremely high-quality protein per calorie ratio such that getting one gram of protein per pound of body weight is both easy and doesn't cause you to ingest an excess of calories. Also, Maui Nui Venison is absolutely delicious. They have venison steaks, they have ground venison, and they have venison bone broth. I personally like all of those. In fact, I probably eat a Maui Nui venison burger pretty much every day, and occasionally I'll swap that for a Maui Nui steak. And if you're really on the go, they have Maui Nui venison jerky, which has 10 grams of protein per stick at just 55 calories. If you'd like to try Maui Nui venison, you can go to mauinuivenison.com/huberman to get 20% off your first order. Again, that's mauinuivenison.com/huberman. Today's episode is also brought to us by Eight Sleep. Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity. Now, I've spoken many times before on this podcast about the critical need to get sleep, both enough sleep and enough quality sleep. When we do that, everything, our mental health, our physical health, performance in any sports or school, et cetera, all get better. And when we're not sleeping well or enough, all those things suffer. One of the key things to getting a great night's sleep is that your body temperature actually has to drop by about one to three degrees in order to fall and stay deeply asleep. And in order to wake up feeling refreshed, your body temperature actually has to increase by about one to three degrees. One of the best ways to ensure that happens is to control the temperature of your sleeping environment. And with Eight Sleep, it makes it very easy to do that. You program in the temperature that you want at the beginning, middle, and end of the night. You can even divide the temperature for two different people if you have two different people sleeping in the bed. And it tracks your sleep. It tells you how much slow wave sleep and rapid eye movement sleep you're getting. It really helps you dial in the correct parameters to get the best possible night's sleep for you. I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for well over three years now, and it has completely transformed my sleep for the better. If you'd like to try Eight Sleep, you can go to eightsleep.com/huberman and save $150 off their Pod 3 cover. Eight Sleep currently ships in the USA, Canada, UK, select countries in the EU, and Australia. Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman. And now for my conversation with Coleman

3. 6:06 – 13:24

   Childhood, “Wildness”

   1. AHAndrew Huberman6:06

      Ruiz.Andrew Huberman: Coleman Ruiz, welcome.

   2. CRColeman Ruiz6:08

      Coleman Ruiz: Thank you. Very excited to see you. Andrew: It's great to have you here. I'm guessing most people are probably not familiar with Coleman Ruiz. So, let's start at the beginning. Where were you born? What was the context of your home life? And maybe let's get up to maybe elementary school, middle school, and, uh, whatever top contour or deep details you want to get into- Coleman: Yeah. Andrew: ... we're all ears. Coleman: Okay. I'll bring us up to seventh grade, 'cause I would say that was probably the first big inflection point in my life. I grew up in, I was born in New Orleans, in a suburb called East, New Orleans East we call it. And, uh, I have an older sister, two younger brothers. My dad was a welder. My mom was a dental assistant. And we had a couple of boxers in the... Dogs (laughs) . And we had a very modest, very modest upbringing. I won't over-dramatize it, but, you know, admittedly, you know, sometimes we got cheese from the lady across the street who didn't want her welfare cheese, and it was one of those. You know, I could tell my parents were fighting for every nickel. And, but it was great. I mean, my cousin grew up across the street from me. He's exactly my age. We had that... At least some of my memory, Andrew, of it was, it was very pleasant. I learned later that you forget a lot of things in your childhood that were unpleasant. But my initial memories when I started thinking about this kind of thing, and, you know, as you and I have discussed, getting professional help, and you start (laughs) to learn a little bit more about your childhood. But I remember it being very pleasant. You know, we've, you've told me about your background in skateboarding and stuff. You know, we skateboarded the neighborhood. BMX was a big thing when we were kids. It was very much a rat the streets upbringing. There was a park behind the neighborhood. We would cut through the fence and go, you know, this kind of thing. I played football and baseball, and very normal in that regard. Went to the neighborhood school, and then in sixth grade, I went to what was my high school, but it went f- it went fifth through twelfth, called Holy Cross High School in the lower Ninth Ward, which that spot is now vacated because the school... I went back after Hurricane Katrina. The whole school had to be moved, and I went there in seventh grade, and it was a hellacious start. I mean, it was detention after detention, you know, fistfight after fistfight, and damn near... Andrew: Were you the instigator of those fights? Coleman: Probably some. I definitely fell in with the wrong crowd initially in that sixth and seventh grade years, and, um, I wouldn't say it was so extreme that, like, it was complete mayhem, but I was definitely on, you know, problem situation number whatever when my parents were called in, and it was kind of the last straw type of thing. (laughs) Andrew: Mm-hmm. Coleman: And, um, I got cut from baseball. My grades were fine. I was always a pretty good student. It was just teenager shenanigans, and then I went out for wrestling. Andrew: Can, can I just, uh, pause you for a second? So on the, the violence part, um, a little bit of experience with this- Coleman: Yeah. Andrew: ... but, uh, violence can come from trying to protect others- Coleman: Yeah. Andrew: ... uh, instigating. Uh, it can come from the wildness, just trying to, you know, see what it feels like, experimentation- Coleman: Mm-hmm. Andrew: ... and any number of other things, all the way to pure sociopathy, which w- we know you- Coleman: Yeah. Andrew: ... you are not, um, and weren't. Do you recall feeling something inside that inspired this? Was it for attention? Did it feel good afterwards? Um, yeah, can you recall what, what it was about? Coleman: I think it was the wildness thing, Andrew, honestly. It wasn't... I mean, I believe... I don't have a malicious bone in my body. Like, we all have that in us, obviously. My profession later in the military, you know, I was able to activate that and I feel like I still can, and I was certainly able to in sports, which is why that seventh grade year was really pivotal. But even now, it's funny, it's even funny you ask about the wildness, because, uh, well, let me put it in movie terms. Like, one of my favorite movie scenes of all time is in the movie The Town when Ben Affleck walks in the room. Jeremy Renner is the, you know, his, his partner essentially, and he walks in the room, and he says, "We're going to hurt somebody. I can't tell you where and I can't tell you when." And he pauses, (laughs) and Jeremy Renner takes maybe a three-second pause, and he says, "Whose car are we taking?" He doesn't even ask. You know, he's just... They're just wild and excited about doing something wild. I don't promote, like, going hurt somebody, of course. Andrew: Sure. Were you the Affleck or the Renner in... Affleck, excuse me, or Renner in that? Coleman: I was, um... I, I, I feel like I was mostly the Renner. Andrew: Mm-hmm. Coleman: Put it this way. If, if you have some good idea this afternoon, like, "Let's go fucking try this," I'm good. I'm ready. And I think it's just exciting. You know, I, I, I hate rules. I hate being told what to do. It's one of the things that was so frustrating about the military. I th- the rules are in place for a reason. They're written in blood. I get all that. But we're so constrained sometimes. I think that was just all coming into fruition that seventh grade year, and I enjoyed going wild. Like, it was just fun. And frankly, we weren't... These fistfights and this trouble wasn't, like, going to get some kid. Th- those other kids wanted the wildness too, you know? Andrew: Mm-hmm. Coleman: And so... But the school didn't want that. And then I went out for wrestling that year, and I could put it all into the wrestling room, and it, it was awesome. Andrew: Before we talk about wrestling and why it was so meaningful as a channel for you, uh, a little bit of neurobiology or else I wouldn't be- Coleman: Great. Andrew: ... uh, Andrew Huberman. Uh, there's a really interesting phenomenon that one observes in both animals and humans...

   3. AHAndrew Huberman12:09

      ... which is at somewhere around adolescence-

   4. CRColeman Ruiz12:11

      Mm-hmm.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman12:12

      ... when the hormone surge begins. But even before that, there's a phenomenon called dispersal.

   6. CRColeman Ruiz12:18

      Mm-hmm.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman12:18

      Um, it's very different than fighting per se or sexual activity per se. It's a, it's a literal dispersal from one's home environment, or in animals, a nest, in which animals, and humans, and we're animals after all, start foraging new environments in a, in a very, as you point out, chaotic way. It's not organized. It's a little nuts. And it, um ... And biologists, and neurobiologists in particular, have observed changes in neural circuitry that, that drive this. So some of it's hormonal, but a lot of it is the brain taking all this input that one has been exposed to, sun, earth, food, others, social interactions, and starting to essentially throw the different paints, the different colors of paint together and just trying things.

   8. CRColeman Ruiz13:03

      Yeah.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman13:04

      Um, some kids are more, uh, prone to this than others. Uh, uh, certainly has a hormonal component. Boys and girls tend to do this differently, but they both do it. Um, and psychologists and neurobiologists see this as a fundamental shift in our underlying circuitry, so-

   10. CRColeman Ruiz13:19

       Hmm.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman13:20

       ... um, just a little bit of food for thought, uh, to put what you just described in context.

4. 13:24 – 22:26

   Wrestling, Combat Sports & Respect

   1. AHAndrew Huberman13:24

      With that said, tell us about wrestling.

   2. CRColeman Ruiz13:27

      I mean, Andrew, in many ways, like I said, that was the first inflection point. It was like immediate, I mean, immediate uptake. Within a week, I knew this was my thing. Maybe, maybe the first practice. Speaker 1<|agent|><|en|>

   3. AHAndrew Huberman13:41

      What do you think it was?

   4. CRColeman Ruiz13:42

      So when I was younger, my aunt and uncle, when I was like seven years old, they started taking me to road races, and I'm sure, uh, just running races, one mile and 5K races when I was really small kid.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman13:54

      For you to run.

   6. CRColeman Ruiz13:55

      Mm-hmm.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman13:55

      Oh.

   8. CRColeman Ruiz13:55

      To run with them. They were into the road racing thing back in the day when it was brand new, you know, the '80s. Um, I'm 48, so I was born in '75, so I was seven, you know, eight years old at the time. And I was (laughs) into like, obviously can I win this race? I just, the pain of the effort was so comfortable. And then, this is kind of silly, but like I won the PT, PT competition at like the Boy Scouts thing in Audubon Park.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman14:24

      PT is physical therapy.

   10. CRColeman Ruiz14:25

       Yeah. Physical training.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman14:25

       Training.

   12. CRColeman Ruiz14:26

       Physical training. (laughs)

   13. AHAndrew Huberman14:27

       Physio, yeah.

   14. CRColeman Ruiz14:27

       And so I won like the whatever when I was young, in Boy, Boy Scouts or something, and, and then it just snowballed. Then I was just like the physical activity still today is ... I mean, if someone said, "What are you really in love with?" It's, it's that. And so when I walked into the wrestling room, it was so extreme compared to anything else I'd ever done, football, baseball, whatever. I never really liked any of those sports. I played them all, um, but I didn't like them. And always ... My dad wrestled in high school and college, and, um, we were, we were, you know, always rough and tumble in that regard. And I even have a couple of buddies in the teams, you know, who obviously were college wrestlers. There's a lot of wrestlers in the teams. And people would always joke about how we're so handsy, eh, you know, we're, our hands are always on each other, and that was just a thing for us. Like, I loved the close contact. I loved the fight of it. What I really love about combat sports, 'cause I boxed in high school between wrestling seasons, um, was the respect.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman15:30

       Tell me more about that.

   16. CRColeman Ruiz15:32

       You just don't have ... There are some, of course, like you can see guys hyping it up and doing their thing in UFC these days, and that's totally fine, but for the most part, if you have fighters of any type, like in a setting, when they don't have to do, you know, the stuff for TV and whatnot, they respect each other because ... And they respect the effort, and because you know what it takes and you know how hard it is to face another man in the middle of a mat with no equipment and nowhere to run and no timeouts and no one to tap in. That's extreme, you know?

   17. AHAndrew Huberman16:12

       Mm-hmm.

   18. CRColeman Ruiz16:12

       And it may not seem like high school wrestling is extreme, but as you just mentioned, something about, you know, development, when you're 14 and you're facing another, like that's the first time ... Is someone trying to take your life? No, they're not, but it feels that way. And then you go and you put in all these hours of training, and you don't eat during the week, and you run stadiums or you run levees and, you know, f- fireman's carries and, and all of it, uh, while you're not eating and making weight and you're in the sauna and i- it's just a very tough thing to do, combat sports, and I love the respect that it engenders between the people who do it.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman16:50

       Mm-hmm. I think it was Sam Sheridan who wrote A Fighter's Heart.

   20. CRColeman Ruiz16:54

       Mm-hmm.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman16:54

       Uh, an excellent book.

   22. CRColeman Ruiz16:56

       Yeah.

   23. AHAndrew Huberman16:56

       And for anyone, male or female, any age who's interested in the human spirit, uh, I recommend A Fighter's Heart because it's about-

   24. CRColeman Ruiz17:05

       Totally.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman17:05

       ... the different fight sports, but it's really about, um, the path of self-discovery-

   26. CRColeman Ruiz17:11

       Mm-hmm.

   27. AHAndrew Huberman17:12

       ... that occurs in various martial arts. And as you said, like especially boxing is very gentlemanly. You touch gloves.

   28. CRColeman Ruiz17:18

       Yeah.

   29. AHAndrew Huberman17:18

       You start, you know, then the, you know, the bell goes off, you go to your corner, like it's ... You know, sometimes people lose it, bite off people's ears and things like that-

   30. CRColeman Ruiz17:25

       It happens, yeah.
5. 22:26 – 29:51

   Divorce, College Applications & Naval Academy

   1. CRColeman Ruiz22:26

   2. AHAndrew Huberman22:26

      So let's talk about that. So you finish high school.

   3. CRColeman Ruiz22:29

      Mm-hmm.

   4. AHAndrew Huberman22:30

      Uh, you head to the Naval Academy. Why the Naval Academy?

   5. CRColeman Ruiz22:33

      There's actually a crazy story behind this, which maybe we'll circle back to. But, um, the summer... Gosh, I, I had forgotten that this started in seventh grade too. The summer between my seventh and eighth grade year, my grandfather was too young to join the Navy and he wanted to go to the Naval Academy, um, during World War II. And he lied to the recruiter and he got into the Merchant Marines. His, I'm pretty sure, first cousin. My uncle and my cousins are, like, first cousins once removed. My uncle Jim Thoreau was at a family reunion in Mississippi, which we were at. And he didn't mention the Naval Academy. Family reunion ends, they all go home. And he starts sending me Naval Academy paraphernalia. I knew nothing about the military. And I just thought about it, you know. And he would send me stuff. You know, you didn't... Uh, we didn't have the internet, right? He'd send in these booklets.

   6. AHAndrew Huberman23:30

      Mm-hmm. And you don't like authority.

   7. CRColeman Ruiz23:32

      No.

   8. AHAndrew Huberman23:32

      So mi- Li- I have n- I've not been in the military, but I've done some work with y'all.

   9. CRColeman Ruiz23:37

      Yeah.

   10. AHAndrew Huberman23:37

       And, um, there's a l- there's a lot of, uh, hierarchy and authority.

   11. CRColeman Ruiz23:41

       Yeah. That's true. It, it... The truth, Andrew, is, like, it was just, it just seemed exciting. I wasn't really thinking about the implications as 18-year-olds, you know. It looked very exciting to me. And having gotten some professional help in the intervening years, what I really think was a big part of it was my parents got divorced my senior year in high school, and the family unit just blew up, right? And so it also represented an escape, you know. Get out and go get your life out of the New Orleans and just go. Just go do something.

   12. AHAndrew Huberman24:16

       Were you a part of that, uh, that...... obviously you were part of the family that got divorced.

   13. CRColeman Ruiz24:23

       Mm-hmm.

   14. AHAndrew Huberman24:23

       Was it chaotic? Was it, uh, controlled? You and I are the exact same age. We're both 48.

   15. CRColeman Ruiz24:28

       Yeah.

   16. AHAndrew Huberman24:28

       Born in '75. Um, back then it was a lot less common for, um, people being, they called them broken homes back then.

   17. CRColeman Ruiz24:35

       Yeah, that's right. (laughs)

   18. AHAndrew Huberman24:36

       You know? Um, nowadays, I don't think they call it that. Everyone just cites the statistic that, you know, more than half of marriages end in, in divorce as if, uh, it, it, perhaps to normalize it. Um, but that's more than half. Um, do you recall feeling, um, distraught about that? Or was it just kind of the natural consequence of something you had observed a long time, like, "Oh, that kind of makes sense that they-"

   19. CRColeman Ruiz24:56

       No. It was a shock to me.

   20. AHAndrew Huberman24:57

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CRColeman Ruiz24:58

       It wasn't a shock to my older sister. Um... I just remember com- this was the thought at the time. I, this was, like, seared in my brain. "This has nothing to do with me." That wasn't, like, some sophisticated view. It was mostly, "Fuck this. I'm not dealing with this. I have my own life. They're going to have to do what they're gonna do," meaning my parents. "I'm getting the hell out of here."

   22. AHAndrew Huberman25:23

       Not a bad mindset for a kid at that stage.

   23. CRColeman Ruiz25:26

       Mm-hmm.

   24. AHAndrew Huberman25:26

       If it had been four years younger, that might not be the best mindset, but...

   25. CRColeman Ruiz25:29

       Right.

   26. AHAndrew Huberman25:29

       As you're heading off to college, that's reasonably healthy mindset.

   27. CRColeman Ruiz25:33

       Yeah.

   28. AHAndrew Huberman25:33

       As opposed to getting enmeshed in the what happened and, and this and that.

   29. CRColeman Ruiz25:37

       Yeah.

   30. AHAndrew Huberman25:37

       Can I ask you, at, at that stage, so you're 17, 18 years old-
6. 29:51 – 31:22

   Sponsor: AG1

   1. CRColeman Ruiz29:51

      (laughs)

   2. AHAndrew Huberman29:51

      I'd like to take a brief break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1. By now, most of you have heard me tell my story about how I've been taking AG1 once or twice a day every day since 2012. And indeed, that's true. I started taking AG1, and I still take AG1 once or twice a day because it gives me vitamins and minerals that I might not be getting enough of from whole foods that I eat, as well as adaptogens and micronutrients. Those adaptogens and micronutrients are really critical because even though I strive to eat most of my foods from unprocessed or minimally processed whole foods, it's often hard to do so, especially when I'm traveling and especially when I'm busy. So by drinking a packet of AG1 in the morning and oftentimes also again in the afternoon or evening, I'm ensuring that I'm getting everything I need. I'm covering all of my foundational nutritional needs.And I, like so many other people that take AG1 regularly, just report feeling better. And that shouldn't be surprising because it supports gut health, and of course, gut health supports immune system health and brain health, and it's supporting a ton of different cellular and organ processes that all interact with one another. So while certain supplements are really directed towards one specific outcome, like sleeping better or being more alert, AG1 really is foundational nutritional support. It's really designed to support all of the systems of your brain and body that relate to mental health and physical health. If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer. They'll give you five free travel packs with your order, plus a year supply of vitamin D3 K2. Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman.

7. 31:22 – 40:08

   Prep School, Patriotism, Fear

   1. AHAndrew Huberman31:22

      So, you're in Newport.

   2. CRColeman Ruiz31:25

      (laughs)

   3. AHAndrew Huberman31:25

      Does that have a, a portal to-

   4. CRColeman Ruiz31:27

      Mm-hmm.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman31:27

      ... the Naval Academy? Is that there-

   6. CRColeman Ruiz31:28

      Yeah, if you graduate prep school, you're, you're straight into the Naval Academy.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman31:31

      Oh.

   8. CRColeman Ruiz31:31

      Like, they fully expect you to be there the next year.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman31:33

      When junior year rolled around-

   10. CRColeman Ruiz31:35

       Mm-hmm.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman31:35

       ... um, and senior year rolled around, of high school, didn't anyone pull you aside and say, "Hey, you might want to, like, apply to a few other places?" Uh, "You might want to consider what you do if this doesn't work out?" What did they assume you were gonna do? They just, head into the city of New Orleans and, um, bus tables?

   12. CRColeman Ruiz31:54

       Zero guidance, Andrew, really. Like, from my high school and, I think, the ecosystem I was in, like people just didn't really know how to do that, you know, how to apply to schools. I mean, my parents obviously helped when I applied to the Naval Academy, but when I (laughs) , when I look at the system that kids go through now to go, you know, their process to find the best college experience, I never had one conversation with a guidance counselor about what to do. I just didn't. I mean, I just got very lucky. A few people, my, my high school wrestling coach intervened, I think, at some point, and called the Naval Academy to speak to the coach to say, "You should give this kid a chance." But he didn't, they didn't know who he was, you know?

   13. AHAndrew Huberman32:37

       Mm-hmm.

   14. CRColeman Ruiz32:38

       I'm so lucky and so fortunate that I ended up where I ended up. It's, it's why I took it so seriously. Like, the focus with which I applied my time in high school, it, the, I took that to 10X degree when I got to Newport because I knew this was my chance.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman32:58

       There's something magical to that. I can relate to that. So, uh, so you're in Newport.

   16. CRColeman Ruiz33:02

       Yep.

   17. AHAndrew Huberman33:03

       And describe what a day was like. Is it all wrestling? You're taking general education classes like one does in the, in the first two years of university?

   18. CRColeman Ruiz33:11

       Yep. So the way, the way the prep school is set up for the Naval Academy is they're basically teaching you the first semester of the Naval Academy. So you take calculus, physics, chemistry, I think you take an English class, et cetera. And, um, you go through, like, a pretty hellacious first couple of weeks 'cause you're away from the flagpole-

   19. AHAndrew Huberman33:30

       Mm-hmm.

   20. CRColeman Ruiz33:30

       ... where no one can hear you scream. You know, you're up in Newport, you're not in Annapolis where everyone's watching. And you do a couple hellacious weeks for an 18-year-old who's never been in the military before. And you-

   21. AHAndrew Huberman33:39

       So you're in the military-

   22. CRColeman Ruiz33:40

       Mm-hmm.

   23. AHAndrew Huberman33:40

       ... technically, if you go to this school?

   24. CRColeman Ruiz33:41

       You're actually enlisted in the Navy.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman33:43

       Okay. So they-

   26. CRColeman Ruiz33:44

       So, 'cause they have to have a place for you.

   27. AHAndrew Huberman33:44

       So they own you, to some extent.

   28. CRColeman Ruiz33:46

       Yeah.

   29. AHAndrew Huberman33:46

       Yeah.

   30. CRColeman Ruiz33:46

       Yeah, they do.
8. 40:08 – 43:02

   Growth Mindset, 24-Hour Horizon

   1. AHAndrew Huberman40:08

      But there was a "I need to get to their level" statement in there. It wasn't, "I can't keep up. I better find a different path."

   2. CRColeman Ruiz40:15

      No, no, no. No. I knew I could, I knew I could get to their level with enough work, you know?

   3. AHAndrew Huberman40:22

      Was that something that your, your father or your mother or both had instilled in you that, that-

   4. CRColeman Ruiz40:26

      Oh, for sure.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman40:27

      Mm-hmm.

   6. CRColeman Ruiz40:28

      Yeah. And my high school wrestling coach was, um, let's call it maybe from the old school.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman40:34

      Mm-hmm.

   8. CRColeman Ruiz40:35

      If you worked hard enough, you could, you could, you could get there, you know?

   9. AHAndrew Huberman40:38

      So this is the essence of growth mindset long before-

   10. CRColeman Ruiz40:40

       100%.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman40:40

       ... Carol Dweck coined the ph- the phrase-

   12. CRColeman Ruiz40:42

       Yeah.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman40:42

       ... growth mindset.

   14. CRColeman Ruiz40:43

       Yeah. When I first read that book-

   15. AHAndrew Huberman40:43

       It's there, "I'm not there yet."

   16. CRColeman Ruiz40:44

       When I first read her book, I'm like, "Wouldn't people teach us this shit when we were kids?"

   17. AHAndrew Huberman40:50

       Yeah.

   18. CRColeman Ruiz40:50

       You know?

   19. AHAndrew Huberman40:50

       Well, some of us got it, some of us didn't. And it can be very context dependent, right? I mean, I think that's one of the more important and often overlooked aspects of Carol's work and Ali Crum's work is that we can develop growth mindset in one domain of life, but then another domain of life we get, you know, kicked in the teeth once and we're like, "I can't do that. There's a carve-out where I can't function." Some people do that, some people don't.

   20. CRColeman Ruiz41:11

       Yeah, that's interesting.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman41:12

       And, um, and we don't u- understand enough about it, um, to understand, you know, whether or not it's a global circuit, you know? And it's, uh, there's a lot of context. But, okay, so you're, you're hanging in there at least. You're surrounded by some very impressive people. There's a lot of structure.

   22. CRColeman Ruiz41:27

       Yeah.

   23. AHAndrew Huberman41:27

       So, so we're a long way from the pre-wrestling days when it was-

   24. CRColeman Ruiz41:31

       Oh, yeah.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman41:31

       Yeah. Th- this is the opposite of chaos.

   26. CRColeman Ruiz41:34

       Totally.

   27. AHAndrew Huberman41:35

       This is structure.

   28. CRColeman Ruiz41:36

       Yeah. You're told what to do every five minutes more or less.

   29. AHAndrew Huberman41:38

       Mm-hmm. And this is, um, scary feelings. Fear is a scary feeling.

   30. CRColeman Ruiz41:43

       Yeah.
9. 43:02 – 52:45

   Naval Academy, Mentor, Focus

   1. CRColeman Ruiz43:02

   2. AHAndrew Huberman43:02

      So, you eventually go to the Naval Academy.

   3. CRColeman Ruiz43:05

      Mm-hmm, '94.

   4. AHAndrew Huberman43:06

      The actual Naval Academy. And that's where you met your wife?

   5. CRColeman Ruiz43:09

      Yep, nine, in '96, my sophomore year.

   6. AHAndrew Huberman43:12

      Okay. So when you get there, what, what's different than the prep school?

   7. CRColeman Ruiz43:15

      First of all, it's big in the macro, not just geographically big, or footprint, square footage-wise, it's big. The concept is big, you know? (laughs) Like, the superintendent of the school was a three-star admiral. You hear about his career, you know, you're 19 years old, you meet... So, there's two incredibly important people in my life at, in those early years at the Naval Academy. A guy named Doug Zembiec, who's dead now, who most people of my service time will know who he is. Um, when I was on my recruiting trip to the Naval Academy, and I was in high school, this is complete accident. Doug was a sophomore. We call them youngsters at the Naval Academy. He was a sophomore, and we're the same weight class. So Coach matched us up because it was my recruiting visit. And my first, this is back to being wild, literally my first night on the grounds of the Naval Academy, I'm sleeping on Doug Zembiec's floor of his, of his room, with his other two roommates. And sometime around 3:00 or 4:00 AM, I get woken up. It's like a bomb goes off. There's a bomb, didn't go off, but there's 12 other gorillas in the room, all wrestlers, maybe one or two other guys. And Doug is hustling... I don't know any of these people, Andrew. (laughs) Like, I just met Doug the previous evening. We just flew into town. He wakes me up. He's hustling me to get my shoes on. A- again, I'm just this high school kid. And then within two to three minutes, all 15 of these gorillas bolt out of the room, and Doug grabs me and I'm just tr- following them, right? So we race out of Bancroft Hall, it's maybe 4:00 in the morning, 3:30, 4:00 in the morning. We race out of Bancroft Hall, the barracks, we run across the parking lot into Lejeune Hall. In Lejeune Hall is the swimming facility and the wrestling room. That's it. That's the only thing that's in there, right? The doors, we run up to Lejeune Hall, the doors of Lejeune Hall are "locked" with a chain on the outside, and one of our... Uh, Doug pulls on the chain so that the door is open enough at the top that the 142-pounder can climb up and, like, get inside that little gap in the doors and run over and open one of the doors that isn't chained.

   8. AHAndrew Huberman45:43

      This is what you'll later do professionally.

   9. CRColeman Ruiz45:45

      I still have... Exactly. And what I, frankly, did as a kid, like back in the day. And so I'm terrified, 'cause I don't know what's coming, you know? And so-

   10. AHAndrew Huberman45:53

       You, you don't bother to ask, "What are we doing?"

   11. CRColeman Ruiz45:55

       There's no time. There's just no time. Like, these guys are, to me, they're full-blown war heroes. They're not, they're college kids, but I'm 17, they're 21? All these wrestlers, I'm hoping I'm gonna come here and be their teammate, you know? We run into Lejeune Hall, go to the second story. We climb up the utility ladder where public works goes to get in the ceiling above the white foamy ceiling tile things. So we're now on the catwalk where the HVAC guys would be working. And I'm starting to get a sense of what's coming. We go a couple feet down the catwalk, everyone stops. Someone reaches over the catwalk and pulls one chalky ceiling tile out. So now you can look over the edge of the catwalk and see right through the ceiling into the diving well. Remember, the diving well has a 10-meter platform, and then we're another, I don't wanna over-exaggerate this, we have to be another 20 feet into the ceiling.

   12. AHAndrew Huberman47:00

       So you're above the diving board, what most people call the div-

   13. CRColeman Ruiz47:03

       Oh, we're way above the diving board.

   14. AHAndrew Huberman47:04

       Okay.

   15. CRColeman Ruiz47:04

       We're five feet above the ceiling, which is 20 feet above the 10-meter.

   16. AHAndrew Huberman47:08

       Got it.

   17. CRColeman Ruiz47:08

       Right? (laughs) And so, um, and now I've realized what's happening, and two or three wrestlers, they, they sort, you climb over the catwalk, get, you know, backwards, get your hands all the way down, and then very lower yourself in a reverse pull-up so you don't kick the ceiling tile. And three or four guys go, and you can hear them hit the water after what is a terrifyingly long time when you're, you know, my age and scared.

   18. AHAndrew Huberman47:36

       And this is in the dark?

   19. CRColeman Ruiz47:37

       Oh, yeah. No one's supposed to be in there. Um, and then one of the guys looks over. When you're a recruit, you're called a drag. And they're like, "Drag, you're up." And I'm lowering myself, Andrew, and I kick the adjacent ceiling tile, and it hits the dive tank and it turns into pancake batter and goes to the bottom of the pool.

   20. AHAndrew Huberman47:59

       Oh, my.

   21. CRColeman Ruiz48:00

       And one of my teammates is like, "You motherfucker." One of my future teammates, you know? He's going nuts. I drop. I live. And this is back to Doug. I come up. Doug clearly goes behind me, but I don't hear him. And one or two guys are going nuts. "You high school piece of shit." Like, "You're gonna go down in the 15 feet and pick it all up." And Doug comes up and he just blasts everybody. "He's our responsibility. This is not his fault. We brought him here." Like, just totally backs me up. And then the rest of the visit happens. I end up there. Doug's now a senior, I'm a freshman.

   22. AHAndrew Huberman48:45

       And...

   23. CRColeman Ruiz48:47

       ...he's just a legend. He was an All-American, and to this day, Andrew, you need to hear this loud and clear. Like, for all the people you and I both know and the people I've been around, no other human in my life have I met with his physical and mental toughness. Not even close. The guy was born in the wrong century, is the way I describe him. And he was, like, my mentor and he was my guy, you know? And, uh, he was killed in '07.

   24. AHAndrew Huberman49:20

       Mm-hmm. Marine?

   25. CRColeman Ruiz49:21

       Mm-hmm.

   26. AHAndrew Huberman49:22

       Yeah. We'll-

   27. CRColeman Ruiz49:22

       Yeah.

   28. AHAndrew Huberman49:22

       ...we'll talk about Doug. Uh, you've written about him.

   29. CRColeman Ruiz49:24

       Yeah. He's-

   30. AHAndrew Huberman49:25

       And, uh-
10. 52:45 – 59:23

    Wife, Work Ethic

    1. AHAndrew Huberman52:45

       So, you met your wife in '96?

    2. CRColeman Ruiz52:48

       Mm-hmm. Sophomore year at the Naval Academy. Yeah.

    3. AHAndrew Huberman52:50

       Mm-hmm. Uh, and was she as driven? Is she as driven? I mean, she's obviously a very talented swimmer, and presumably works hard as well. Um, it's kind of interesting. I didn't, um, realize until a few years ago that the both of you are, you know, military.

    4. CRColeman Ruiz53:07

       Yeah. She... Definitely just different. Different driven, way smarter, way more... You know, it's obviously not one-to-one for men and women, but way more successful by gradient standards. She's in the Navy Hall of Fame. She was Patriot League Swimming Champ. She was on Junior National Triathlon Team when she was 20, I think. Um, really talented in every regard. Um, ninth in our class, I think. First female graduate, number one female graduate our class.

    5. AHAndrew Huberman53:41

       Tell me more about that. How's that- how's that work?

    6. CRColeman Ruiz53:43

       You have a... I don't even know exactly (laughs) how the grading... Well, first of all her grades are- her l- academic success is just remarkable.

    7. AHAndrew Huberman53:50

       Uh-huh.

    8. CRColeman Ruiz53:51

       And then you get a military grade and you get a physical grade, not for your athletics I don't think, but it's like your PRT scores, which is your Physical Readiness Test, all this military stuff you do. You get this other cluster of a grade that goes along with your academic grades, and she was number nine in the class and the first female graduate based on that cluster of grading. And, I mean, she's an amazing person.

    9. AHAndrew Huberman54:17

       Was her success in academics and swimming, was that part of what drew you to her? Uh, uh, no?

    10. CRColeman Ruiz54:23

        No. No, I- she was just nice and, you know... I- I didn't really care about the achievement. It doesn't... (laughs) It certainly sounds like I care about (laughs) achievement 'cause of the narrow focus-

    11. AHAndrew Huberman54:33

        Yeah.

    12. CRColeman Ruiz54:33

        ...but it- it wasn't really that. You know, she was just really normal-

    13. AHAndrew Huberman54:38

        Mm-hmm.

    14. CRColeman Ruiz54:38

        ...in a group of a lot of abnormal people, frankly. Like, there's some kooks at these schools, you know? Um, and I'm probably in that category. I don't know, but everybody's just really different there.... you have this athlete group. You ha- I mean, you know, Andrew. I mean, you, you went to Stanford. I mean, some of the... You know, the group of Naval Academy and West Point, like, these schools who produce, like, the Rhodes Scholar level person, like that cluster of group, like at Navy. I remember s- they were super impressive. I mean, and then there's the rest of us, like, doing our best, getting pretty good grades and stuff. But there is very different groups inside, you know, the school.

    15. AHAndrew Huberman55:17

        Yeah. Yeah, I look to some of my colleagues, like a former guest on this podcast, Ali Krum.

    16. CRColeman Ruiz55:20

        Mm-hmm.

    17. AHAndrew Huberman55:21

        You know, she's incredible scientist, was a Division I gymnast, and, uh, is a licensed clinical psychologist.

    18. CRColeman Ruiz55:29

        Yep (laughs) .

    19. AHAndrew Huberman55:30

        Also maintains a, a, a healthy relationship with-

    20. CRColeman Ruiz55:32

        Mm-hmm.

    21. AHAndrew Huberman55:33

        ... with children in the home.

    22. CRColeman Ruiz55:34

        They're, amazing.

    23. AHAndrew Huberman55:34

        Like, I just go, "Who are these people?"

    24. CRColeman Ruiz55:36

        (laughs)

    25. AHAndrew Huberman55:36

        You know, it's... I mean, the... You know, every once in a while we talk about the, the person with the quote-unquote "extra gear." You know, like some people just seem to have that extra gear and I don't want to take anything away from Ali or anyone else's, um, incredible work ethic that goes with what people perceive as an extra gear. Who knows if they have an extra gear or not? Uh, I always just want to know what their parents did. (laughs)

    26. CRColeman Ruiz55:55

        Right. Yeah.

    27. AHAndrew Huberman55:56

        And it turns out Ali's parents, I hope I have this right, uh, but recollection of this is that, um, her mother ran a theater group and her father was a martial arts teacher.

    28. CRColeman Ruiz56:06

        Okay.

    29. AHAndrew Huberman56:07

        So, you know, there's nothing that speaks to academics per se.

    30. CRColeman Ruiz56:10

        Mm-hmm.
11. 59:23 – 1:00:51

    Sponsor: Plunge

    1. AHAndrew Huberman59:23

       I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Plunge. Plunge makes what I believe is the best self-cooling cold water plunge. Over the last decade, and especially in the last five years, there's been an increasing amount of excitement about cold water plunging for sake of mental health, physical health, and performance. And that's in large part because one of the most robust effects of cold water exposure are big increases in adrenaline, also called epinephrine, and dopamine. So while some people do cold water plunging in pursuit of increasing metabolism or reducing inflammation, it's really those big increases in adrenaline and dopamine that lead to those long-lasting increases in alertness and feelings of well-being, not just in the seconds or minutes after the cold plunge, but indeed for several hours afterwards. I've been using a Plunge for several years now, typically first thing in the morning or after cardiovascular training. I do agree that doing cold water plunging after a workout designed to generate hypertrophy or strength gains is not a good idea. But doing cold plunging at the other times of day can be tremendously beneficial. I use the version of Plunge called the All-In Ice Bath. And Plunge now also makes saunas that get up to 230 degrees Fahrenheit. I love how the Plunge ice bath and sauna can both be controlled from an app on my phone, so that if I'm headed home, I can turn on the sauna and it'll be hot when I arrive. So if you would like to try a Plunge ice bath or sauna, you can go to plunge.com/huberman to get $150 off either product. Again, that's plunge.com/huberman.So

12. 1:00:51 – 1:04:51

    Navy SEALs, BUD/S, Hell Week

    1. AHAndrew Huberman1:00:52

       at what point did you decide you wanted to aim for the SEAL teams?

    2. CRColeman Ruiz1:00:57

       It's a great question. I mean, things, uh, you know, as compared to, I had a gunnery sergeant in the Marine Corps at prep school who I thought... These are back to the first people you meet in this environment, Gunny Flynn. And he was great. Like, he was super hard on us, but I obviously kind of loved that. And I thought I was going to go into the Marine Corps, and Doug wanted to go into the Marine Corps. I'm a freshman at the Naval Academy, he's my wrestling partner. Doug could literally tell me to jump off of a building, and as long as he came with me, I'd do it, no problem, and enjoy it all the way down. Doug was going into the Marine Corps. I thought I was going to go into the Marine Corps. And I did a summer training in Quantico between freshman and sophomore year. And it was okay. It was good, but I didn't love it. And I met a couple other guys who were going to compete for spots in the SEAL teams who were years ahead of me. But to answer your question, junior year, you get, you can sign up and say, "I want to start competing for a billet." We had 16 spots in my class. I think there's 32 spots these days. You know, the force has grown since 9/11 obviously, and, um, and I, I want to say maybe 150 or so people, they put you through this weekend, overnight, two-day hell, two-day things at Navy. Some people quit, I don't know how many go to what we used to call mini BUD/S in the summer between junior and senior year. You go out to Coronado and BUD/S instructors, they still have it, it's called something different. Um, you spend two weeks at the BUD/S compound, they run you through a mini program. And so-

    3. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:32

       Describe BUD/S for the, uh, some-

    4. CRColeman Ruiz1:02:34

       Oh, sorry. Yeah. Yeah.

    5. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:34

       ... some folks listening to this won't know-

    6. CRColeman Ruiz1:02:35

       So-

    7. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:35

       ... won't know the acronym.

    8. CRColeman Ruiz1:02:36

       The acronym is Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL School. That's our school in Coronado. Um-

    9. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:41

       It's a screening process for who gets in, who doesn't.

    10. CRColeman Ruiz1:02:43

        Yeah. And when you're at, when you're at the Naval Academy, it's obviously different than guys coming into the enlisted ranks. You have this pool of people, 150-ish guys say they want to go sometime junior year. They run you through this weekend, pretty hard, at Navy 'cause we have SEALs stationed at the Naval Academy. And then, I'm just gonna guess, that goes from 150 to 80. Maybe 80 guys go to the summer program in Coronado when you're still, you know, a midshipman at the Naval Academy. I've never... Maybe people have quit mini BUD/S, I don't know. But I don't know if I really saw anybody quit the two weeks we're out in Coronado. And then you get, you know, graded on your performance and stuff. And then you come back for senior year and you go through a series of interviews with a bunch of SEALs who come out and do interviews, and you don't really know what you're doing. And then they select down, I don't want to, again, overdo it, but it's probably seven, I don't know, maybe 50 or 60 qualified guys. They select you down to 16. And so to answer your question about when I got interested was, when I knew I didn't want to go in the Marine Corps, I never, ever had the Top Gun fever thing. I wasn't interested in flying. I just wasn't interested in anything else but something super physical, and that seemed like the best, the next best thing. And because I grew up in New Orleans and spent a lot of time in the water, that wasn't intimidating. That screens a lot of people out, obviously. Yeah. And got selected in the group of 16 and was at BUD/S after graduation, you know, a couple months after graduation.

    11. AHAndrew Huberman1:04:20

        There's been a lot put out into the world around BUD/S, you know, people have seen the log carrying-

    12. CRColeman Ruiz1:04:25

        Mm-hmm.

    13. AHAndrew Huberman1:04:25

        ... and the boat carrying, and the screaming, and the set- set, screaming of the, the, uh, instructors-

    14. CRColeman Ruiz1:04:30

        Yeah.

    15. AHAndrew Huberman1:04:30

        ... and the, and the running and the, you know, clasped arms in the, in the water, and Hell Week, no sleep, and on and on. It's obviously tough. It, it culls 85% of the people that go out there thinking that they are the, the absolute last person who would ever quit, ring the bell, so to speak. Um,

13. 1:04:51 – 1:16:30

    BUD/S Success Predictors; Divorce & Aloneness; Rebellion

    1. AHAndrew Huberman1:04:52

       you obviously got through. Uh, a while back, you mentioned to me three things that you think predict whether or not somebody's gonna get through BUD/S. And, um, before you tell us what these are, I just will just, uh, tell people that yes, of course, you made it through BUD/S successfully and went into the teams, um, very successful career in the teams. But you've also been a BUD/S instructor, so you've been on the, on the, um, on the other side of the equation too. What are those three things?

    2. CRColeman Ruiz1:05:20

       Yeah. This was, as you know, this was very anecdotal, but it lined up. We, when I was back there in '05 as an instructor, Andrew, I feel like, we're not scientists, right? But I feel like we tried every correlating data pull that we could pull from pull-ups to run times, to you name it, to regions of the country that people grow up near water. At least back then, nothing correlated. And so I was a first phase OIC, officer in charge. And so our team in first phase, we can talk about what that is in detail if you want to, but first phase is in charge of Hell Week, you know, Hell Week's in the first two months of training. And a couple of the guys said, "All this bullshit about this can get you through, that can get you through, I bet that every single person we talk to out here on the grinder has one of these three things: they were a varsity athlete in high school or college, their parents are divorced, or they got suspended from school. I guarantee it." And we would walk around the grinder and ask. And I mean, you know, this isn't gonna pass an independent review board, but it's gotta be 90 to 95%.

    3. AHAndrew Huberman1:06:29

       So that's incredible because, you know, so much has been made of BUD/S and Hell Week.

    4. CRColeman Ruiz1:06:34

       Yeah.

    5. AHAndrew Huberman1:06:34

       And just to just fill in a few of the blanks for those that aren't familiar, Hell Week is what? It's, uh, five nights, no sleep. You get an hour or a couple minutes on, on one day-

    6. CRColeman Ruiz1:06:43

       Wednesday and Thursday.

    7. AHAndrew Huberman1:06:43

       ... but you're basically in constant movement for about a week.

    8. CRColeman Ruiz1:06:46

       You are.

    9. AHAndrew Huberman1:06:46

       And that's when most people-

    10. CRColeman Ruiz1:06:48

        It's true.

    11. AHAndrew Huberman1:06:48

        ... voluntarily ring the bell. Okay?

    12. CRColeman Ruiz1:06:50

        And most of them do it before Wednesday.

    13. AHAndrew Huberman1:06:52

        Okay. And I know it's got chaotic components, guns going off, blasts.

    14. CRColeman Ruiz1:06:56

        Mm-hmm.

    15. AHAndrew Huberman1:06:56

        It's got hard work, boring components, people...... the, the people trying to make it through who have no sense of how long a run is gonna last or what's gonna happen. And you hear all this stuff like, okay, you just don't quit, or you just go meal to meal. But what you just described is really interesting. Uh, let's break those three things down, because, um, playing a varsity sport has certain elements, um, having divorced parents has certain elements, and getting suspended in school has certain elements. Let's start with divorced parents first.

    16. CRColeman Ruiz1:07:33

        Yeah.

    17. AHAndrew Huberman1:07:33

        'Cause varsity sport, I think we can probably just quickly say, okay, there's structure. You have to listen to somebody. You have to be able to push yourself. You have to have some level of physical competence and mental-

    18. CRColeman Ruiz1:07:42

        Coachable.

    19. AHAndrew Huberman1:07:43

        ... coachable, mental confidence to work with others.

    20. CRColeman Ruiz1:07:44

        Yeah.

    21. AHAndrew Huberman1:07:45

        So there's something there, right? Um, and you presumably have to go through junior varsity to get there, so there's some oomph and required, um, in any event. Um, but the divorced parents piece is, is, was surprising to me.

    22. CRColeman Ruiz1:07:58

        Yeah.

    23. AHAndrew Huberman1:07:58

        Still is. What... You have divorced parents.

    24. CRColeman Ruiz1:08:01

        Yep.

    25. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:01

        So do I. Divorces occur for any number of different reasons. What in the world do you think is the, uh, the consequence of or the... of a divorced household that would predict so well, at least in this back of the envelope measurement that you made-

    26. CRColeman Ruiz1:08:18

        Yeah.

    27. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:18

        ... but as an instructor, that people would get through this excruciatingly difficult period of time?

    28. CRColeman Ruiz1:08:24

        For me, it was one thing specifically. I felt like I was alone if I didn't have the team. So, I don't know what it would be for other people, but I was like, "If I don't have this team, then what team do I have?" So, I'm not leaving. You could crank up the cold and misery as high as you fucking want, but I'm not leaving.

    29. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:50

        Mm-hmm. Yeah, that hits deep. Um, I didn't do BUD/S. I didn't even know what the SEAL teams were.

    30. CRColeman Ruiz1:08:56

        (laughs)
14. 1:16:30 – 1:22:15

    Patriotism, Navy SEALs, Green Team

    1. AHAndrew Huberman1:16:30

       So you obviously get through BUD/S. You probably weren't surprised given your mindset. Probably weren't surprised.

    2. CRColeman Ruiz1:16:37

       No. No. I wasn't surprised.

    3. AHAndrew Huberman1:16:39

       Mm-hmm.

    4. CRColeman Ruiz1:16:39

       At this point, I'm maybe building a little self-confidence (laughs) and don't just operate out of fear.

    5. AHAndrew Huberman1:16:43

       Mm-hmm. But happy.

    6. CRColeman Ruiz1:16:45

       Mm-hmm.

    7. AHAndrew Huberman1:16:45

       Presumably.

    8. CRColeman Ruiz1:16:45

       Oh, yeah. Yep.

    9. AHAndrew Huberman1:16:46

       And let's ... I feel obligated to ask. Well, I'm just curious to ask that you, you know, you've been in a system of military for a long time. Is there a, a bigger, um, pull of patriotism there or that's just ... It's there, but are, I mean, are you thinking about country or are you thinking about team? Are you thinking about the day?

    10. CRColeman Ruiz1:17:07

        Well, y- yeah. I mean, at this point, you know, I'm fully indoctrinated in a sense. You know, the Naval Academy really does give you a sense of, again, bigness when you meet people from World War II and Vietnam, and, you know, an amazing guy which, you know, we can cover later, I don't ... I, I wasn't around when he was coming up, but Colonel John Ripley is the guy who won the Navy Cross in Vietnam. Um, the book, The, The Bridge at Dong Ha is about him. He knew my ... This is back to the ... I was ... My uncle Jim who introduced ... He and my uncle Jim were buddies, and I met him. He's since passed away. I met Colonel Ripley when I was a plebe at the Naval Academy. Um, I work with one of his sons now, friend, teammate, mentor. He's a great guy. Um, Colonel Ripley, he's a legend. Like, this guy's a Navy Cross winner. Should've won the Congressional Medal of Honor by all accounts. If you read the buch- the, the book, The Bridge at Dong Ha, you, you are gonna have no ability to understand why he's not dead. (laughs) And these are the kind of people you meet. So back to the patriotism, you know, thing, by the time I was in the teams, I kn- I knew where I was sort of in this ecosystem. Admittedly though, what I didn't really have, Andrew, because it ... I mean, I love the country of course, but it wasn't ... Again, I didn't grow up with a dad who was like, you know, this was always in our house or it just wasn't that big of a thing. This, this came for me after 9/11 obviously. But yes, the patriotism and the importance of the job is there, but wha- when I remember checking into SEAL Team 3, what would emerge very quickly for me, because we had Vietnam vets in the training cell at SEAL Team 3 and just some amazing people, what I realized right away was, okay, play time is completely over. And that was very useful, like, early lesson. Not that anyone was fucking around in BUD/S. Like, you know it's serious. But you meet a guy like Master Chief Martin who's got 100 combat missions from Vietnam. He's about to retire. He was, like, the third person I met (laughs) when I checked into the team. And you suddenly are like a kid again where there's just no fucking around.

Episode duration: 3:18:02