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Tools to Reduce & Manage Pain | Dr. Sean Mackey

In this episode, my guest is Dr. Sean Mackey, M.D., Ph.D., Chief of the Division of Pain Medicine and Professor of Anesthesiology, Perioperative and Pain Medicine and Neurology at Stanford University School of Medicine. His clinical and research efforts focus on using advanced neurosciences, patient outcomes, biomarkers and informatics to treat pain. We discuss what pain is at the level of the body and mind, pain thresholds, and the various causes of pain. We also discuss effective protocols for controlling and reducing pain, including the use of heat and cold, acupuncture, chiropractic, physical therapy, nutrition, and supplementation. We also discuss how pain is influenced by our emotions, stress and memories, and practical tools to control one’s psychological perception of pain. And we discuss pain medications, including the controversial use of opioids and the opioid crisis. This episode will help people understand, manage, and control their pain as well as the pain of others. Read the episode show notes: https://go.hubermanlab.com/ZrPX7fZ *Thank you to our sponsors* AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman AeroPress: https://aeropress.com/huberman Levels: https://levels.link/huberman BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/huberman InsideTracker: https://insidetracker.com/huberman Momentous: https://livemomentous.com/huberman *Dr. Sean Mackey* Stanford academic profile: https://stanford.io/48TgiBz Website: https://drseanmackey.com Publications: https://stanford.io/3U1OiHY Lab website: https://stan.md/3vKrrWY Stanford Division of Pain Medicine: https://stan.md/47zT9Dh X: https://twitter.com/DrSeanMackey LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seancmackey *Timestamps* 00:00:00 Dr. Sean Mackey 00:02:11 Sponsors: AeroPress, Levels & BetterHelp 00:06:13 Pain, Unique Experiences, Chronic Pain 00:13:05 Pain & the Brain 00:16:15 Treating Pain, Medications: NSAIDs & Analgesics 00:22:46 Inflammation, Pain & Recovery; Ibuprofen, Naprosyn & Aspirin 00:28:51 Sponsor: AG1 00:30:19 Caffeine, NSAIDs, Tylenol 00:32:34 Pain & Touch, Gate Control Theory 00:38:56 Pain Threshold, Gender 00:44:53 Pain in Children, Pain Modulation (Pain Inhibits Pain) 00:53:20 Tool: Heat, Cold & Pain; Changing Pain Threshold 00:59:53 Sponsor: InsideTracker 01:00:54 Tools: Psychology, Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction, Catastrophizing 01:08:29 Tool: Hurt vs. Harmed?, Chronic Pain 01:12:38 Emotional Pain, Anger, Medication 01:20:43 Tool: Nutrition & Pain; Food Sensitization & Elimination Diets 01:28:45 Visceral Pain; Back, Chest & Abdominal Pain 01:34:02 Referenced Pain, Neuropathic Pain; Stress, Memory & Psychological Pain 01:40:23 Romantic Love & Pain, Addiction 01:48:57 Endogenous & Exogenous Opioids, Morphine 01:53:17 Opioid Crisis, Prescribing Physicians 02:02:21 Opioids & Fentanyl; Morphine, Oxycontin, Methadone 02:07:44 Kratom, Cannabis, CBD & Pain; Drug Schedules 02:18:12 Pain Management Therapies, Acupuncture 02:22:19 Finding Reliable Physicians, Acupuncturist 02:26:36 Chiropractic & Pain Treatment; Chronic Pain & Activity 02:31:35 Physical Therapy & Chronic Pain; Tool: Pacing 02:36:35 Supplements: Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Vitamin C, Creatine 02:42:25 Pain Management, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), Biofeedback 02:48:32 National Pain Strategy, National Pain Care Act 02:54:05 Zero-Cost Support, Spotify & Apple Reviews, YouTube Feedback, Sponsors, Momentous, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter Disclaimer & Disclosures: https://www.hubermanlab.com/disclaimer

Andrew HubermanhostDr. Sean Mackeyguest
Jan 14, 20242h 56mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Science-Backed Strategies To Understand, Reduce, And Reframe Physical Pain

  1. Neurobiologist Andrew Huberman interviews Stanford pain specialist Dr. Sean Mackey about what pain is, how it arises in the nervous system, and why it is always both sensory and emotional. They distinguish nociception (raw danger signals from the body) from the brain’s constructed experience of pain, explaining why pain is so individual and context-dependent. The conversation covers acute versus chronic pain, hurt versus harm, and how factors like emotions, beliefs, early life experiences, and relationships amplify or reduce pain. They review evidence-based tools—from NSAIDs, opioids, and supplements to heat/cold, movement, mindfulness, cognitive therapy, acupuncture, and digital health—to help people manage and in some cases significantly reduce chronic pain.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Pain Is Created In The Brain, Not In The Tissue

Nociceptors in skin, muscle, and viscera detect heat, pressure, chemical changes, etc., and send electrical signals (nociception) via A-delta and C fibers to the spinal cord and then the brain. Those signals are *not* pain by themselves; pain only emerges when those inputs are integrated with emotion, cognition, memory, and context in distributed brain networks (insula, cingulate, amygdala, thalamus, cortex). This explains why the same injury can feel very different across people and situations, and why beliefs, anxiety, and attention can dramatically change pain.

Learn To Distinguish ‘Hurt’ From ‘Harm’

A central clinical and self-management principle is separating painful sensations (hurt) from ongoing tissue damage (harm). Many chronic pain conditions (e.g., Morton's neuroma, stable chronic back pain) are *very* painful but not structurally worsening; activity may hurt but is not damaging. Conversely, some injuries (fractures, unstable spine, heart attack) represent real harm and require protection or urgent care. Getting accurate medical evaluation, then reframing safe pain as non-dangerous, can unlock function (e.g., Mackey’s tennis patient who returned to play once he understood his foot pain was not harmful).

Use Medications Strategically: NSAIDs, Acetaminophen, Opioids, And Beyond

NSAIDs (ibuprofen, naproxen, aspirin) reduce inflammation and peripheral sensitization (anti-hyperalgesic) but are not classic analgesics; they act on COX/prostaglandin pathways in periphery, spinal cord, and brain. They can delay tissue healing (e.g., bone, post-arthroplasty) and carry GI, kidney, and cardiac risks—use lowest effective dose, with food, and consult a clinician if you have comorbidities. Acetaminophen acts centrally, is easier on the stomach but can damage the liver above ~4 g/day, especially with alcohol. Opioids can be life-changing for a subset of patients but also highly addictive and dangerous; they should generally not be first-line for chronic pain, require careful individualized prescribing, and must be clearly separated from illicit fentanyl driving the current overdose epidemic.

Simple Physical Techniques Powerfully Modulate Pain

Melzack and Wall’s gate control theory plus descending inhibition explain why rubbing, shaking, or running water over an injury reduces pain: fast A-beta touch fibers and brainstem pathways inhibit nociceptive transmission in the spinal cord. TENS units exploit the same mechanism with electrical stimulation. Cold can reduce pain by decreasing inflammatory mediator release and slowing nerve conduction; heat increases blood flow, relaxes muscles, and often feels soothing. For acute injuries, cold is typically emphasized in the first ~48 hours and heat later, but there is individual variability—use what helps, avoid extremes (e.g., frostbite, burns), and remember that movement and sleep quality are critical for healing.

Movement, Pacing, And Physical Rehab Are Cornerstones For Chronic Pain

Chronic pain often leads to activity avoidance, deconditioning, and a boom-bust cycle: doing too much on good days, crashing on bad days, then developing fear of movement. Mackey emphasizes pacing: set small, consistent, progressive goals (e.g., walk 1 block daily, then 1.5, then 2), cap activity even on very good days, and resume gently after flares. Pain-trained physical and occupational therapists can guide safe progression, correct biomechanics, and help distinguish hurt from harm. Interventions like nerve blocks and meds should be used to *enable* increased functional rehab, not as stand-alone fixes.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

What goes on in your shoulder or your neck is not pain. That's nociception… once it hits the brain, it becomes the experience of pain.

Dr. Sean Mackey

One of the key messages is understanding the distinction between hurt versus harm.

Dr. Sean Mackey

I'm not pro-opioid. I'm not anti-opioid. I am pro-patient.

Dr. Sean Mackey

Pain inhibits pain… when you engage a painful stimulus at a different site, it engages brainstem circuits that send descending inhibition to the spinal cord.

Dr. Sean Mackey

I don't try to distinguish between psychological pain and physical pain. It's pain, end of.

Dr. Sean Mackey

Neuroscience of pain: nociception vs. perception, brain networks, pain matrixAcute vs. chronic pain; hurt vs. harm; somatic, visceral, neuropathic painPharmacologic tools: NSAIDs, acetaminophen, aspirin, opioids, kratom, cannabis, supplementsNon-pharmacologic tools: heat/cold, touch, TENS, movement, pacing, acupuncture, chiropractic, PT/OTPsychological & social factors: anxiety, depression, catastrophizing, anger, early life traumaMind-body interventions: CBT, mindfulness, acceptance, biofeedback, “love analgesia”Policy and public health: opioid crisis, prescribing guidelines, National Pain Strategy, digital tools

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