Jay Shetty Podcast#1 Communication Expert: If You Get Anxious Around Other People WATCH THIS!
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
120 min read · 23,977 words- 0:00 – 0:29
Intro
- VGVinh Giang
You take a deep breath and then continue speaking. The reason people aren't comfortable with the pause is because they don't know what the pause is for.
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- VGVinh Giang
The pause allows people to process what you're saying. Think about it now, listeners, as you're listening to that, the moment I paused, you had a moment to process the things that I was saying. Do you want to be more charismatic? You see, in the world of communication, there are two fundamental areas. Didn't that just seem really important? I was so bad at
- 0:29 – 2:13
Are You Struggling to Communicate Clearly?
- VGVinh Giang
interactions with human beings. There was just a period of my life where I, I didn't understand what anybody was saying to me.
- JSJay Shetty
You're saying that everyone can go from being a shy, unconfident speaker to being a prolific speaker like yourself.
- VGVinh Giang
Being a confident communicator, that's just another series of behaviors that you can practice. So when people say, "Oh, I'm shy," I always say to them, "Oh, well, that's because you've been practicing the shy behaviors for the last 15, 20, 30, 40 years."
- JSJay Shetty
What are the top three things, the practical problems that people are coming to solve when they come to you?
- SPSpeaker
The number one health and wellness podcast.
- JSJay Shetty
Jay Shetty.
- SPSpeaker
Jay Shetty.
- JSJay Shetty
The one, the only Jay Shetty.
- VGVinh Giang
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
What made you commit your life to helping people find their voice and find their confidence?
- VGVinh Giang
I always feel like the thing we end up doing in life tends to be something that had a massive impact on us when we were younger. I don't know if you find the same to be true. But for me, man, Jay, when I was young, I, I was such a bad communicator. I was so bad at interactions with human beings. And the reason for that is because English is my third language. So I grew up first learning a Chinese dialect called Teochew, and then I learned Vietnamese, and then I learned English. So there was just a period of my life where I, I didn't understand what anybody was saying to me, and I couldn't communicate with other people. So I just went through a period of life where I felt really isolated. I didn't realize that I was doing it in my career, but as I learned how to communicate more effectively, became a professional speaker, all of this, I went, "Oh, wow, now I have this skill that I can teach other people." So the moment I just tried teaching it, I felt fulfillment, and I'd never really felt that level
- 2:13 – 4:27
The Path to Becoming a Confident Speaker
- VGVinh Giang
of fulfillment before. That's when I decided, oh, wow, it's cool to do it yourself. It's even cooler to help other people do it. And then that's kind of when I went all in with it-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- VGVinh Giang
... and found so much fulfillment. And again, I'm sure you get this all the time, but it's the comments, the emails you get, and you're like, "Oh, wow, I, I'm doing something that matters."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
Whereas before, I was a magician. So I did that for years, and it feels weird to say it because I, I don't wanna talk down on what magicians do. Not at all. It's just for me, the applause at times when I was doing magic, it felt really empty to me. Because I did it for so long, and it started to feel a little bit empty. And then when I started teaching public speaking and communication skills, it felt full, it felt better, it felt more fulfilling.
- JSJay Shetty
From the way you're talking about it, you're saying that everyone can go from being a shy, insecure, unconfident speaker to being a prolific speaker like yourself.
- VGVinh Giang
Yes, because it's all just a series of behaviors. Everything you and I are doing right now, everything you see a great communicator do on stage, everything you see a great creator do on video, it's just a series of behaviors. The way you're moving your mouth, the way you're manipulating airflow, the way you're moving your hands, it's all just behaviors. So when people say, "Oh, I'm shy," I always say to them, "Oh, well, that's because you've been practicing the shy behaviors for the last 15, 20, 30, 40 years." Being a confident communicator, that's just another series of behaviors that you can practice. And if you practice that for 10, 20, 30, you, you'd be a confident communicator, right? So it's just behaviors that we get attached to because it becomes a part of our identity. And then I think when it becomes a part of our identity, all of a sudden now, we feel like we're stuck, but you're not. And then there's this really interesting concept, I don't know if you've come across it before, where it's where does your voice come from? Where do you get your voice from? You, you learn how to communicate based on the people you were inspired by when you were young, and you just learn behaviors from them. Like, I'm watching my daughter now, my daughter Melody, she's one. And I can see her watch us and then start to mimic the things we do.
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- VGVinh Giang
Right? My, my wife the other day made her spaghetti.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
She wouldn't eat it, so my wife was furious. She was so upset. She was like, "Ah, you're not eating it." And then she goes, "Ah."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
She does the exact same thing, right? And then my son, he picks up the way I speak, 'cause he's seven now.
- 4:27 – 6:07
Do you have “Unconscious Incompetence?”
- VGVinh Giang
I notice he has certain nuances that I have. So again, the voice you currently have, people think, "Oh, that's my natural voice." It's like, no, no, it's not your natural voice.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
You lost your natural voice when you were two or three years old, right? Whereas the voice you have now, that's your habitual voice. It's just a series of habits. And the thing that I find the first, most fascinating is that when the habits move from your conscious mind and it goes into your subconscious mind, now you feel it's a part of you, and now you're stuck with it. But in the beginning of your life, you had to consciously think, "Oh, oh, Dad speaks really softly-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
... so I'm gonna speak really softly." But the moment you do that for two, three years, now it moves into your subconscious mind. And then you go, "Oh, no, that's me." No, no, it's, it's still just a series of behaviors-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- VGVinh Giang
... and that's all that it is.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I've always loved that model of unconscious incompetence-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... to unconscious competence.
- VGVinh Giang
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
And for anyone who doesn't know it-
- VGVinh Giang
Four stages, right
- JSJay Shetty
... the four stages. The f- the bottom stage is unconscious incompetence when you are unconscious of your incompetence. You have no idea what you're doing wrong. You probably don't know that you um, uh, try and fill every pause-
- VGVinh Giang
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
... say like at the end of every sentence, whatever it may be. And we all have an unconscious incompetence, especially in the way we speak.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And that's when we have this mindset that you're saying where we think it's our voice, but actually it's just practiced behaviors.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And then above from that, which is what I love, this is what you do so phenomenally well when you're with your audiences, is conscious incompetence.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
You're helping people become aware-
- VGVinh Giang
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... of how our body language, our voice, our tonality affects us.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And then above that, for everyone who doesn't know the model, is-Conscious
- 6:07 – 8:40
Change Your Habits, Change Your Confidence
- JSJay Shetty
competence
- VGVinh Giang
Correct
- JSJay Shetty
... where now you know why you move your hand that way and why you choose to lower your voice or lower your pitch or whatever it may be.
- VGVinh Giang
And that's kind of a frustrating part for people to be at, stage three.
- JSJay Shetty
Right
- VGVinh Giang
Because they go, "I know it, but Vinh, I still have to think about it."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
So when they do it, it's really interesting, 'cause I see my students do this all the time, where they go, "Hello, everybody. It's great to be here."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
And then they go, "Vinh, this feels so fake. It feels so phony," but I'm like, "You have to go through that stage to get to stage four," which is unconscious competence, which is mastery.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- VGVinh Giang
And a lot of people aren't willing to push through that because they go, "No, it doesn't feel natural, so that means it's not right."
- JSJay Shetty
Let's talk about that.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
That's a really-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... I think that's one of the biggest challenges because I think we're both sitting here-
- VGVinh Giang
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... as people who've trained, worked hard at our craft, worked hard at our art.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And now at this point it does feel like unconscious competence.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
But a lot of people say, "Well, no, but if you had to learn it, then it's fake, it's unnatural, it's not real."
- VGVinh Giang
It's phony.
- JSJay Shetty
"It's phony." But what's the difference between developing a skill versus faking it? Like, what's the difference?
- VGVinh Giang
I love your definition of home, where you say home is the familiar, right? And to me, the way you currently communicate, you have a home, and that is because those behaviors you've been repeating for the last 10, 20, 30 years, right? So that feels like home to you. Whereas what people don't realize is, and I, I don't mean to take a long explanation for this-
- JSJay Shetty
No, do it
- VGVinh Giang
... but I think, I think it's important. When you used to ask me what my home was when I was young, I would say my suburb. So I'd say Salisbury Downs. Then as I got older, I started to explore my city. I, I'll say Adelaide is my home, South Australia, right? And then as I explored more of us- my state, then I would say South Australia's my home. Then I explored more of Australia, I go, "Australia's my home." Now I've lived in LA and, and Southern California, I go, "Oh, I kinda feel like America's my home, too." And then as I travel more of the world, I go, "Oh, the world is my home." The same thing with your communication skills. You have access to this incredible instrument, but your home is such a small part of that instrument. Say a piano has 88 keys, right? Right now home to you is 5 keys, because you're only familiar with those 5 keys. But as you start to realize you have access to this incredible instrument, you start to play the other keys, home becomes the entire piano. Whereas the struggle that people have is the moment they do something that they're unfamiliar with, instead of labeling it as unfamiliar, they label it as fake and phony. And what happens the moment you do that?
- 8:40 – 12:30
A Simple Way to Build Self-Awareness
- VGVinh Giang
You stop exploring your instrument, and now you are limited to the five keys you've been playing with your entire life. And I think there's, there's an over-attachment to the familiar, which keeps us the same.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- VGVinh Giang
Because when you think about this, most people change the way they dress, they change the, their glasses, they change their house, they change their car, but they never change the way they talk. They never change the way they communicate, because we are way too attached to the familiar. And I say to my students this all the time: "Don't be so attached to who you are in the present you don't give the future version of you a chance." There's a future version of you where the world is home. There's a future version of you where you can play all 88 keys.
- JSJay Shetty
I love that concept of we change our hair, we change our glasses-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... change our clothes, but we don't change the way we communicate. And I was gonna ask you, when you have so many people coming to see you speak, what are the top three things, the practical problems, that people are coming to solve when they come to you? So when someone comes and says, "Vinh, I need your help"-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... what are they trying to solve in their life, the top three things that you hear?
- VGVinh Giang
First thing would be they wanna get from stage one, unconscious incompetence, to, like, "You've made me aware of one thing. How can I start to become aware of more things?"
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- VGVinh Giang
So again, self-awareness. So first thing they go is, like, "How can I become more self-aware? I've now been... I'm awake now to the problem of my communication. How can I begin that journey and, and become more aware?" And when they ask me that question, then I sh- share with them a very simple technique. And a very simple technique that I share with them is record and review. So the only way to become more aware is if you see yourself, and most people hate watching themselves on video. Most people hate listening to themselves on audio. So that means they've been going through their entire life avoiding the two most critical things you need to develop self-awareness-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
... with your communication.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- VGVinh Giang
So, and they hate this process. So the process is record a video of you speaking for five minutes, right? And then when you review and reflect on that video, leave it for a day so you're less critical of yourself, and once you've left it for a day, the first time you grab your phone to review the video, put it on mute, and then just look at yourself. And then as you're looking at yourself, take notes. What am I doing with my hands? How are my facial expressions? What am I doing with my legs? How am I moving? Am I... Do I have any visual tics? So you take a whole bunch of notes. That's the beginning process of self-awareness. Then after that, turn the volume up. Just listen to yourself now. Turn the phone around, play. Just listen. And as you're listening now, listen to the vocal qualities. What do you like about your voice? What don't you like? What can you hear? How's your rate of speech? How's your volume? What's your melody like? Do you hear the passion if you're passionate about something? You'll take so many notes when you do this. What are your filler words, non-words, right? You, you get all of that down. Then the last step is get it transcribed. So once you transcribe it now, you can see the way you communicate in a completely different perspective. You might notice you speak in circles. "I repeated the same thing four times. What am I doing?"
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Right? And you'll see different things. If you just go through that process once, you'll get a list of 5 to 10 things.
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- VGVinh Giang
That's how you begin your journey of self-awareness. Yet people will resist that, because it's too uncomfortable. They'll record it, but they won't watch it. But the ones that do, Jay, I immediately get a DM after, "Shock. I can't believe-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
... I do X." And it's crazy, 'cause I, I, I think of one of my students right now, where he said, "For six years I've been held back in my career because my managers and my leaders say that I lack clarity, I lack authority, and I lack confidence." And he goes, "And they give me this feedback, yet they don't tell me... what I need to improve. And do you know what I realized, Vinh, through doing this Record & Review process? The one thing that has robbed me of six years of progress is my umming and ahhing. I can't believe umming and ahhing has held me back. And he was so frustrated, and I remember
- 12:30 – 15:57
Why You Keep Getting Interrupted (and How to Stop It)
- VGVinh Giang
I had to tell him, I go, "Look, look, that's... I, I get your frustration, but at least it didn't hold you back for 20 years, [laughs] and you realized it now." But something simple as umming and ahhing held him back for that long and destroyed his perception of being a great leader. It's kinda crazy.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. That's what I wanted to get to, is that's the problem I feel someone may see your work and they'll say, "Well, I don't wanna be a public speaker."
- VGVinh Giang
That's right.
- JSJay Shetty
That's not the point. The point is there's a promotion-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... that you're not getting-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... because you don't have authority.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Or the challenge is you're not able to ask out the person on a date that you really wanna take out on a date.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, you don't feel that confidence.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Or there's the challenge of you're in a team meeting-
- VGVinh Giang
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... and you feel like your voice is never heard. People always overlook your opinion. They don't hear you.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
What are some of those stories that you've heard of people that have had those types of challenges that are coming to you and saying exactly like the one you just told us?
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah. Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
They're like, "Oh, Vinh, this is actually solving a daily issue for me."
- VGVinh Giang
The big one, people keep interrupting me. Not only do they not listen to my ideas, they interrupt me, and then my turn is gone now. And the idea that I was gonna share was one that was going to be able to change the course of the meeting, but because they interrupt me, now I'm invisible, and that keeps happening to me. And then when they ask me, they go, "Why do other people interrupt me? Why does it happen?" The reason is something that I don't think you'd expect, because it comes down to vocal presence and physical presence. And when I see them in the situations where people interrupt them, the reason is because their vocal presence is low and their physical presence is low. So for example, everyone's sitting around a meeting table, and I'm, uh... and again, I go, "Look, send me an example," right? "Where you're doing a big Zoom meeting and you're allowed to send me this. Send it to me. Let me see what's happening." And when you see it, everyone's sitting down, and then the way she would bring up the question, it was a woman who asked me this, and I remember the way she'd ask it is very low volume. So, "Look, I've just got a quick idea I would love to share with you all." Very small body language, and if I was talking to you like this right now, it is so easy for you to interrupt this version of me, so easy. Whereas imagine-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
... instead I said, "Take control of this. Stand. Stand." They go, "Oh, I b- I feel a bit, little bit weird." Well, just prime the reason. Just go, "Look, I've been sitting all day. Do you mind if I stand for my part of the presentation?" Oh, great. All right. Then you just stand. If you stand now, all of a sudden you're in a position of more authority, and if you use larger body language, stronger volume, the version of me right now, this version is infinitely more difficult for you to interrupt.
- JSJay Shetty
Absolutely.
- VGVinh Giang
It's infinitely more difficult because you've got more authority. You've got more credibility. But again, because a lot of people in those situations fall victim to a lower default volume, a slower default rate of speech, smaller body language, and then all of a sudden people interrupt them.
- JSJay Shetty
Absolutely.
- VGVinh Giang
Which is-
- JSJay Shetty
Or talk over them.
- VGVinh Giang
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
Just completely ignored.
- 15:57 – 19:01
Why Communication Skills Are More Important Than Ever
- JSJay Shetty
rewind back, right? Go backwards the last five minutes, everything that Vinh said-
- VGVinh Giang
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
... from the point of self-awareness through to just now, and practice it in your next meeting, right? Listen to yourself in a meeting. Even record yourself while-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... you're in a meeting as you are normally, as you are right now.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And then go listen back to that, and then apply what Vinh was saying, because it's so interesting to me how daily our communication is impacting our lives, and we think we're not getting promoted because we're not networking or we're not g-
- VGVinh Giang
Technically brilliant
- JSJay Shetty
... technically great or whatever it may be. Or maybe you're sitting there going, "Jay, I'm actually one of the best in the company when it comes to XYZ, but now I realize that it's my ability to coach people, guide people, because I have that influence." I wanted to ask you, how does an introvert-
- VGVinh Giang
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... get the courage to do what you just said? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people listening to right now, they're introverted naturally. I mean, do you even believe in introverts, or is that also a practiced behavior?
- VGVinh Giang
Well, uh, there definitely is a difference, obviously. I asked my vocal teacher the, the same thing. I said, "What's the difference between an introvert and extrovert?" And she goes, "The key thing is just how they get energy. Are you introverted or are you extroverted?" I mean, I, I, I know I'm very extroverted. I get energy from being around people. But she goes, "Introverts, they lose energy once they're around people." So she goes, "Look, that's the key difference. Now let me ask you a question. A pianist, if they're an extrovert, would they play differently to an introvert?" And I had to think about that for a while, 'cause I thought, "Surely this is a trick question." And I, I said, "Yes." And she goes, "No, you're an idiot."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
"There's no difference. You will not be able to tell who is an introvert and who is an extrovert if you listen to a pianist. Great music is great music. Your voice is an instrument. Great music is great music." She goes, "The only difference is introverts have to be highly strategic with when they play their instrument. Extroverts can play their instrument all day. It's more difficult for an introvert because you have to be highly selective when you play your instrument." It's an excuse that-
- JSJay Shetty
Right
- VGVinh Giang
... I think some of my friends who are introverted used to give, and where they say, "Oh, no, because I'm introvert, I'm not gonna play my instrument well at all." And it's like, no, no, no. You still have energy. You just have to use it much more strategically, and you have to be highly aware of how you can rejuvenate that energy.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- VGVinh Giang
You have to be very conscious. It's harder for introverts. It is harder for introverts, to acknowledge that. However, if you've got great ways to be able to rejuvenate your energy and you have good menu items, like good things you can go out and snack on and recreate some of that energy and re- rejuvenate, thenYou still have to learn how to play your instrument well, otherwise you will become that person that- And again, the majority of my students are the person you described. It's the, "I'm way smarter than John. I'm way smarter than Sarah, but why did they get the promotion? Why didn't I get it?" Well, it's because if you are technically 10 out of 10, but your communication skills are a three out of 10, do you think your organization perceives you to be a 10 out of 10 or a three out of 10? You are only as good as you can communicate. So as you improve your communication skills, you start to shine your light more brightly in the world. Whereas a lot of my students tend to think, "Oh, but it's my boss's responsibility to see the brilliance in me." No, no, it's not. It's your responsibility to shine brightly,
- 19:01 – 23:21
Protecting Your Energy as an Introvert or Extrovert
- VGVinh Giang
not their responsibility.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
So when you take it upon yourself, things change. Filler words as well, and so, like, do you know what I mean? We do that because we don't understand the power of the pause, whereas the pause allows people to process what you're saying. If there's one thing you do if you listen to this episode, is record a video of yourself and, and you'll thank Jay and I later-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
... because you will see things that you didn't realize you know. The reason we hate the sound of our voice is because when we hear ourselves on a recording, that's not what... how we sound to ourselves. And the reason you have a different sounding voice to yourself is when you're speaking, the vibrations go through your bones and your muscles, and then it hits your ears.
- JSJay Shetty
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- VGVinh Giang
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... and accountability for our lives because like you said, and I've, I've for a long time believed that someone was going to come and spot my talent and see it and nurture it and-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... help me build up and-
- VGVinh Giang
Yep
- JSJay Shetty
... I realized no one was coming and that no one could see it because they were too busy in their own lives. It's not that they were bad people or they were bitter or they were wrong or they were not able to spot talent. Everyone was busy.
- VGVinh Giang
Busy.
- JSJay Shetty
People were just busy-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... in their day-to-day. They don't have time to spot your skill and your talent and nurture it. If someone's listening to this right now and they're saying, "Vinh, I love what you just said. I'm an introvert. I agree with you. There are times when I can and can't perform or can't bring it out. How do I hold energy? How do I create energy if I have a meeting coming up today? If I'm gonna be on a Zoom call today, what do I do in order to make sure I'm at my best? Because right now I'm going from meeting to meeting to meeting to meeting, Zoom call to Zoom call. I'm just exhausted."
- VGVinh Giang
First thing is you have to learn how to protect your energy. For, for example, yesterday I was, I was doing a couple of different podcasts while I'm here in LA, and I didn't leave the hotel room. The podcast wasn't 'til 4:00. I didn't leave the hotel room at all, to the point where my videographer freaked out and, and, and just knocked on my door and said, "Are you okay?"
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
"Are you still all right? Are you all right?" I'm like, "Yeah."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
"I'm conserving my energy."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
I'm a fairly high energy person, so I have to conserve my energy. So all morning is... Again, I didn't talk to anyone this morning. I had to wait to talk to you because if you don't conserve your energy and you just give it all the time everywhere, then you won't have any. So that's number one. Gotta conserve-
- JSJay Shetty
Great answer, yeah
- VGVinh Giang
... your energy, right? And then the second thing is have go-to, I call them menu items, have some menu items that you can quickly reach for. So one that I love is Wim Hof, the breathing technique, right? The, the guided bubble breath. Two cycles of that before a meeting, my brain is oxygenated, my body feels good. I feel like I just... I, I just feel revitalized.
- JSJay Shetty
Can you break the pattern down for us just in case-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah, yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... people don't know?
- VGVinh Giang
Okay. So if people don't know-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah
- 23:21 – 26:25
How to Create a Routine That Helps You Perform at Your Best
- VGVinh Giang
so, as long as you can, after that, just take a deep breath in, hold for 15 seconds, and release. And that breathing technique alone has energized me, even when I am doing Zoom calls at 3:00 AM in the morning, 'cause I work with some US clients. It just gets me... Three cycles of that, two cycles of that. Incredible. I was not a believer in that at all when I first learned.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- VGVinh Giang
I was like, "Yeah, surely that's not gonna work. What, breathing? I do that every day."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Changed my life.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I agree.
- VGVinh Giang
My, my go-to technique to energize myself. The next one to me is a snack, something healthy. I love blueberries, raspberries with a little bit of cream. Oh man, a light meal, I love it, right? And then favorite beverage. My go-to is coffee.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
I don't know. That's... I feel like some people are gonna tell me it's gonna kill me.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
But I love it. So have your own go-to.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
Right? Have your own go-to.
- JSJay Shetty
Have your routine.
- VGVinh Giang
A routine.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
I have a playlist of videos that crack me upI th- I don't know if you've... Have you seen videos that made you laugh?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, absolutely.
- VGVinh Giang
But of course.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
Save them.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
Save them, because they're passports.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, puts you in a great mood, yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
Puts you in a great mood. I'll give y- a l- one last one from me is, again, I've just got so many things out of my menu item.
- JSJay Shetty
No, I love it.
- VGVinh Giang
I also love orchestral war music.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Okay? So like Hans Zimmer-esque.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes. Yeah.
- 26:25 – 31:00
Why You Cringe at the Sound of Your Own Voice
- VGVinh Giang
Ah.
- JSJay Shetty
My show was at 8:00 PM. I had to stop eating at 12:00. I'd have a protein bar around 5:00, 6:00 PM to give me that little bit of boost of energy. I'd have a sparkling water, because I preferred that, just before I went on.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And then I would have to eat... I'd get offstage at 10:00, do a meet and greet for two hours, and then I'd eat at midnight every day.
- VGVinh Giang
[laughs] Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Now, that's not my normal schedule at all. Like, that's-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... completely against my normal schedule.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
But I had to find that, and I think that's what's so interesting about this, is that I'm not so... I sleep at 9:00, 9:30 every night.
- VGVinh Giang
You do?
- JSJay Shetty
That's when I'm in bed.
- VGVinh Giang
Wow.
- JSJay Shetty
So for me to be having to eat dinner at midnight is so abnormal, but I found that there was a different routine. I also didn't go out to any noisy places-
- VGVinh Giang
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... before or after the show because I had to be on vocal rest. I knew I'd lose my voice if I went to a restaurant or whatever. So for three, four months, I didn't go to a restaurant while I was out in all these cool cities. Everyone was like, "Oh, did you go to this place? Did you?"
- VGVinh Giang
No.
- JSJay Shetty
I was like, "Nope, I didn't go to any of those places-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... because I would've lost my voice, and then I wouldn't be able to perform." And I think that's the important part of the craft-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... that there's a dedication and a surrender to this is what matters.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And therefore, some of this other stuff is gonna have to fall by the wayside.
- VGVinh Giang
And what you just said made me think, the importance of finding what works for you.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- VGVinh Giang
I, I feel like people have this misunderstanding that I should just have this energy naturally.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- VGVinh Giang
Back to your original question, right? I should just have it naturally, and if I don't have it naturally, there's something wrong with me.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- 31:00 – 35:31
What Failure Teaches Us About Growth
- VGVinh Giang
on a audio replay, the calibration starts to just do this, and then gradually you can't hear the difference anymore. And then when you look at yourself on, [laughs] on camera-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
... and also in the mirror, the calibration starts to happen. You go, "Oh, that's me. Oh, that's just me."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
It's painful.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
But if you go through that-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
... you get over it.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. It's all that discomfort in the beginning-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is
- JSJay Shetty
... that we all need to go through.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I was... We were talking about this earlier. So I was really fortunate because when I was 11 years old, my parents were so scared that I was so shy and so insecure that they forced me to go to public speaking school.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And so my school had a extracurricular activity with the London Academy of Music, Drama and Arts.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
For seven years, I had about three sessions a week of two to three hours each. It was fairly-
- VGVinh Giang
Right
- JSJay Shetty
... rigorous.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And you'd have to take exams, and the exams were pretty rigorous, too. So every year you'd go to this exam a- and you'd turn up, and the examiner would be in a room. And before you even meet the examiner you'd get... You could take a book.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
It could be any book you wanted, but they were gonna pick any page and ask you to read it in a emotive, dramatic, and powerful way.
- VGVinh Giang
Ooh.
- JSJay Shetty
And so they could pick any, any page out of a book. The next part of the test was they would give you a topic 15 minutes before. You'd be in a library. This is when we didn't have, you know-
- VGVinh Giang
The internet? [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, exactly. Well, there probably was the internet, but-
- VGVinh Giang
Oh, okay
- JSJay Shetty
... there wasn't this... They wanted to keep you away from all of that. You'd be in a library, and you'd have 15 minutes to prep a talk about the dangers of smoking or whatever it was, a topic that they'd picked, and you had to structure a talk out, and the talk had to be five minutes long.
- 35:31 – 39:43
How to Become a Natural Communicator
- VGVinh Giang
out of myself, but that's how we learn, right? I don't wanna do a speech where I, I forget what I'm gonna say, but that's how you learn. You have it happen, then you go back and you go, "Okay, why did I forget? Oh, it wasn't well-rehearsed." Right? "Why did I forget? I didn't know how to deal with my nerves." Now you need to learn how to rehearse. Now you need to learn how to manage your nerves. So all of a sudden, if you don't fail, you don't know where your weakness is, and then you don't know what to work on. So you gotta pay the price.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
I think, I think you've gotta pay the price. Back to your original question that you were saying-
- JSJay Shetty
No, that's a great... I am so glad you brought that up.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah. It's just so important 'cause I think people just now are resistant to failing, yet we learn far more from our failures than we do from our successes.
- JSJay Shetty
For sure.
- VGVinh Giang
So for the person who's 40, "Oh my god, Vinh. How do I now... How do... What do I do? Am I doomed?" No, no, you're not. It's just when Jay was 11, he was able to work on three or four different behaviors at the same time because you're so elastic, right? There's so many things that could change about you when you're at that age. But when you're less elastic in your older years, you just now have to focus on one thing at a time.So I've coached a few CEOs of some pretty big companies here in the US, and it's so funny because when I map out their... [laughs] I used to, I don't do it anymore. But when I did it and I mapped out their, their coaching program, and I showed it to them, they got upset 'cause they're like, "Wait, you're making me work on my volume for four weeks, and that's all we're doing? This feels stupid." And then in those moments, I just have the courage to go, "Well, look, you... Then, then pick somebody else. It's okay. Get a refund. Pick somebody else."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Because I kind of said to them, "You're 50, and you've been speaking with a very default, quiet volume for 50 years. Do you expect to be able to change that in 48 hours?"
- JSJay Shetty
That's so good.
- VGVinh Giang
Because every v- Because I get them to send me a video every day, right? And when they, every time they send me a video, I go, "Watch what you're doing for the first seven days. Even though you know we're working on volume, your default volume is, like, a 4 out of 10." And that's when they go, "Oh, far out. I keep defaulting back to it." So the older you are, you've got to realize one thing at a time. One thing at a time.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- VGVinh Giang
It, but it drives people crazy.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
"I want to do seven things, Vinh. I want to do hand gestures. I want to learn how to story tell. I want to use volume. I want to add pitch and melody. I want to do all of it." But that's also what leads to no change.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- VGVinh Giang
That's why most people never change the way they sound, because they're not willing to sit and be patient and do one thing at a time.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. A good example is thinking about it like driving.
- VGVinh Giang
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
How many bad driving habits have we picked up-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... in the last 20 years-
- VGVinh Giang
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... because we haven't been tested, we haven't reviewed it.
- VGVinh Giang
Oh, that's scary.
- JSJay Shetty
Right? And I had to, I recently had to redo my, uh, driving test because of moving here and-
- VGVinh Giang
Oh
- JSJay Shetty
... you know, getting a state ID and all that kind of stuff.
- VGVinh Giang
Yep.
- JSJay Shetty
And I realized just how many bad habits you pick up.
- 39:43 – 44:49
Why Mastering Communication Gives You True Freedom
- VGVinh Giang
"I want to be able to help them in this way." Your skills and abilities will just take you there.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- VGVinh Giang
And that's why you come across in these podcasts and the professional people who do this, it's so natural.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- VGVinh Giang
And when people are sitting there going, "I want to be that natural," but it requires a dedication to mastery.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. And that's the point that I really want people to get. I remember sitting and watching one of my favorite comedians who became a friend, and he was just brilliant. Like, he would have the audience laughing and enraptured.
- VGVinh Giang
In his palm.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, in the palm of his hand, right?
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah. So cool.
- JSJay Shetty
And, but everything looked and felt completely off the cuff.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
So he'd literally just turn up on stage. It wasn't like he wasn't-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... in the flow. Sometimes you watch a comedian and you can tell there's an arc, and you can tell there's a story-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... and you can tell it's planned.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
This guy would literally come up, he'd be like, "Hey, does anyone, has anyone read any books lately?" And, like, someone would name a book. He'd be like, "Oh yeah, I read that page," and he'd make a joke out of it. And then someone else, and he'd be like, "Oh, what's your favorite song right now?"
- VGVinh Giang
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And it's all a conversation. Brings out a song. "Oh yeah, I can't believe he said that lyric," makes a joke about the lyric. And it was unbelievable to watch. And I spoke to him afterwards and I said to him, I said, "Who did you learn that from?"
- VGVinh Giang
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, "Where did that come from?" He said, "I've practiced it so much that it looks spontaneous, but it's completely trained." And I think that's what everyone wants. Everyone wants for it to look spontaneous.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
But that took years of discomfort, courage, failure-
- VGVinh Giang
Mastery
- JSJay Shetty
... training, mastery. When I'm telling a story or hosting a podcast, I'm not trying to sound like anything-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... because your voice has, for so many years, become that way.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm. Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And I'm at a point in my career, for sure, I was asked to give... I just gave three keynotes in the Middle East in January, and in Dubai, and I said to myself, "I'm gonna walk into these and just channel."
- 44:49 – 47:53
Vinh’s Most Embarrassing Public Speaking Moment
- JSJay Shetty
... to that 100%-
- VGVinh Giang
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... I now have the opportunity to find and discover in the moment.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
So there were so many things that I said in those three keynotes that I've never said in my life.
- VGVinh Giang
You're creating.
- JSJay Shetty
And that's where I get joy. Yeah, you create.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And I said that first because I wanted to take it back and say, my first experience of public speaking... I wanna ask you about yours. I was around seven years old-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... and my mom always wanted to, me to be on stage and do things like that, and I didn't. And so it was a religious assembly, and I was dressed as people from my culture.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And I was asked to go and sing and speak on this prayer in front of my class. Now, I grew up in London.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I grew up in an area where there weren't loads of Indian people like me.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I'm now on stage dressed in traditional garb, but it was basically me wrapped in a sari-
- VGVinh Giang
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
... if you've ever seen that.
- VGVinh Giang
Yes, I have.
- JSJay Shetty
And my mom had even put some makeup on me probably-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... to try and make me look more the part, and it, it didn't help.
- VGVinh Giang
Okay. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
And then I'm on stage in front of all my friends. I'm seven, eight years old, something like that, and I stand up there with this prayer that I'm not that well-versed in or practiced. And I start singing it. I have a terrible singing voice, and that's not humble. There's a difference between a speaking voice and a singing voice. [laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Okay. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
I can't s- I can't sing to save my life. And I start singing, and the whole audience starts laughing immediately. Like, just... Like, literally all my friends are rolling on the floor laughing. And now I'm starting to cry 'cause I felt really embarrassed, and I look down because I forgot the words, and now I can't see the words because my tears have blurred-
- VGVinh Giang
So you're crying
- JSJay Shetty
... the words on my paper, so I've lost the notes. So I also don't know the words.
- VGVinh Giang
Oh.
- 47:53 – 52:57
Do Accents Hold You Back from Being Understood?
- VGVinh Giang
many of the students that I coach. There usually is some kind of event when they were younger-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- VGVinh Giang
... that has led them to believe that, "I'm terrible at this thing," because there wasn't the right support. They... You were thrown into that. You, you didn't even practice.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, [laughs] I didn't.
- VGVinh Giang
You wouldn't even... You didn't even learn the words, right?
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
So, so again, like, you, you were set up to almost fail. When a lot of the oral presentations that we do when we're young, that's what they're called, right? "Oh, you're gonna do a presentation." We're set up to fail.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
When you're 11 and you have to do this presentation in front of your class, do they teach you how to use your hands? Do they teach you where to put your notes? Do they teach you how to summarize notes and not write the whole damn thing on cue cards? No, they're setting you up to fail. So y- this is such a common story, because our school system, the entire year, has one day where we have to go on in front of the class, do it. And guess what, what, guess what happens that day? "I'm sick, Mom."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
"I can't go to school." I'll be saying, "Ah, g-," sorry. And then you stay and then you miss the one day you have training.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
And then if you do the training, you're set up to failYou're all set up to... So every person has a version of this. My version of this is a little more dramatic because I was older. I was in university and we had to do a presentation for accounting, and I was so nervous. I remember going to the toilet 10, 12 times, so nervous. And then I got up on stage and I had a sniffle, so I kept, I kept touching my nose. [sniffs] I had a sniffle and then I got a blood nose.
- JSJay Shetty
Oh.
- VGVinh Giang
And then, and I didn't realize I had a blood nose 'cause I thought it was, I thought it was-
- JSJay Shetty
Oh
- VGVinh Giang
... I was just, I thought it was just boogers. So I didn't know, so, so, so I swiped it. Blood comes across my face. I don't know I have blood on my face. So-
- JSJay Shetty
While you're speaking?
- VGVinh Giang
While I'm speaking. I didn't know it was blood, right? And then I, obviously a blood vessel went. I was so nervous everything was going cra- and then I didn't realize it was blood, and I was still talking. And then people started laughing, and then I tasted blood. And the moment I tasted blood, I looked at my hands, there was blood everywhere. I start freaking out. I didn't know what to do. The teachers didn't even know what to do either. Do you know what I had to do? I finished the talk. And it was the-
- JSJay Shetty
You finished the talk?
- VGVinh Giang
I did. Well, it was only a five-minute presentation, but I finished it 'cause I didn't know what to do, and I panicked, and it was just the worst presentation I'd ever given. From that point, I just thought, "Yep, you know what? I, I'm gonna avoid this at all costs. I'm never gonna do it ever again."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
"This is the worst experience of my life."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah, just... And then when I walked off, I just... Yeah, I'm glad there were-
- JSJay Shetty
Oh, gosh
- VGVinh Giang
... no videos back then and no photos or anything like that.
- JSJay Shetty
Oh, there's no videos. [laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
[laughs] Yeah, that's, that's so traumatic.
- JSJay Shetty
Well, that is traumatic, man.
- 52:57 – 56:20
The Pen-in-Mouth Trick to Sharpen Your Speech
- VGVinh Giang
me. I used to not pronounce my T's. British people are good with this, but Australians a- and even Asians, I, I, I didn't do it. So I, I'd say things like, "I can't." I wouldn't pronounce, "I can't." I wouldn't pronounce that. And then my, my T's, I would say, "Free." "Oh, can I have free of those?" Instead of, "Three of those."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
And then what people were associating with low levels of intelligence was not so much my accent, but it was just because I didn't articulate my words well.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- VGVinh Giang
And this can happen-
- JSJay Shetty
That's powerful
- VGVinh Giang
... in any culture, this can happen in any, with any accent. I've heard people with Chinese accents, Indian accents, Polish accents, Russian accents, but when they articulate their words beautifully, oh man, it's, it's like you get to lif- listen to a different genre of music. Otherwise, imagine everyone sounded like us.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] Yeah. For sure.
- VGVinh Giang
There's no flavor, there's no-
- JSJay Shetty
Personality
- VGVinh Giang
... personality. Again, I do not believe accents are a problem. I believe the problem lies in your ability to articulate and your pronunciation. And here's a quick activity that you can do to help with this.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, go for it.
- VGVinh Giang
One of the greatest things I learned that my speech pathologist made me do was, first of all, grab a book, and every single day you grab a book for five minutes, four times a day if you want to take it real seriously, every time for five minutes, read the book and overdo your lip movements, overdo the tongue movements, and then if you want to take it to the next level, put a pen in your mouth, because if you put a pen in your mouth, you're forced to over-articulate, and do it out loud. And by doing this, you'll start to learn, and record yourself while you're doing it too, you'll start to learn, "Oh wow, I struggle with this sound, this consonant, this vowel." And as you start to bring a little bit of awareness to it, you go, "Oh right, I need to change the way I'm shaping my lips. I need to change-
- JSJay Shetty
Right
- VGVinh Giang
... the way." And just going through that process alone, I remember doing that for three months.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- VGVinh Giang
And I had to do that when I came here to the US, because I slurred my words a lot. And in Australia, "You fully understand me, far mate?"
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Right? "Yeah, there's no dramas with that, eh?"
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
But over here, all of a sudden, I, I was speaking in Texas, and I still remember speaking in Texas for the first time, and it was so sweet. They're likeI love the guy, but I, I ain't got no idea what he's saying.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Right? And it was like this weird thing where-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. [laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
And then I literally had to go see a speech pathologist even later in my life because in Australia it wasn't a problem.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- VGVinh Giang
And I didn't realize it too, but when I slurred my words that much, it made people think I wasn't smart.
- JSJay Shetty
Right. Right.
- VGVinh Giang
And this is why people in the world think the British are so smart. I-i- is it just the accent, or is it because they articulate extremely well?
- JSJay Shetty
Right. Right.
- 56:20 – 59:36
Don’t Just Learn the Tools, Own Them
- JSJay Shetty
you get there and then you don't need these techniques.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Or that you don't need to improve and that you don't need to work on it.
- VGVinh Giang
Don't need practice anymore.
- JSJay Shetty
I think about it all the time.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
So anyway, let's, let's... Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Uh-
- VGVinh Giang
Can you see how difficult this is?
- JSJay Shetty
Very difficult.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah, all of a sudden, right?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
And I want people to think about this. Who can you understand better right now?
- JSJay Shetty
I'm not sure.
- VGVinh Giang
[laughs] You gotta give me more than that, Jay.
- JSJay Shetty
Okay. So Vinh, how are you today?
- VGVinh Giang
Feeling a little bit jet lagged-
- JSJay Shetty
Okay
- VGVinh Giang
... because I came all the way from Australia.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I just got back from-
- VGVinh Giang
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
... Mexico yesterday.
- VGVinh Giang
Oh, that's great.
- JSJay Shetty
And I went to a friend's wedding.
- VGVinh Giang
Oh.
- JSJay Shetty
And we had a really good time.
- VGVinh Giang
Oh, that's beautiful.
- JSJay Shetty
I'm really happy for him.
- VGVinh Giang
Oh, so happy for you.
- 59:36 – 1:04:45
How to Slow Down Your Speech Without Sounding Boring
- VGVinh Giang
But again, I believe the answer is not which one, it's both. Both just as critical. Same with me. I think until I found the purpose and the fulfillment from teaching public speaking, I didn't really have much to talk about.
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- VGVinh Giang
I didn't. And until I found that, then all of a sudden I started creating content, then the content started to take off. And I think it's because I love how you've positioned what you do here. It's on purpose. When I found that purpose, and I had the tools, and I was able to use my instrument, then all of a sudden the world resonated with that.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- VGVinh Giang
Whereas before, I, I did make YouTube videos back in 2008, 2009, just for fun. But they didn't really go anywhere.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Because even though I had decent access to my instrument, it just didn't go anywhere because I wasn't aligned. I, you could hear it. It, it wasn't, it wasn't on purpose.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. No, I'm glad, I'm glad I brought that up because I think a lot of people a- are struggling with either/or. Like, someone may come to you, they may learn all the tools-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... but then they're gonna have to find what they use it for.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And like you said, there may be someone else who actually has lots of knowledge-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... but then they don't have the tools to share the wisdom or the insight.
- VGVinh Giang
And that's generally the student that somehow discovers me.
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- VGVinh Giang
It's the one that i- is, "I have something to share with the world."
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- VGVinh Giang
"But some reason, every time I share it, people misunderstand me."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- VGVinh Giang
"Every time I share it, it doesn't get the impact that I desire." And, and it is the truth, because you have, you could have the greatest piece of music written by Beethoven, but if you play it poorly-
- JSJay Shetty
It won't
- VGVinh Giang
... is it the greatest music?And again, it's so interesting because I understand my students so intimately now, where I know what they'll say. They, they say things in their life like they go, "I'm just gonna let my work speak for itself." Why, why not speak for your work, too?
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Right? Well, why can't we do both? Why, why are we so linear? Why can't we do both?
- JSJay Shetty
So good.
- VGVinh Giang
Right? And when they realize that, they go, "Oh, okay. Right." It opens their mind to the whole idea of, I kinda have to take responsibility to shine my light. I can't wait for some- again, and I remember, we have a mutual friend, Mel Robbins, right?
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- VGVinh Giang
Mel helped me with my speaking career. At the start of my speaking career, J- Mel used to flick me the gigs. [laughs] I couldn't afford her. And, and-
- JSJay Shetty
Oh, I didn't know that
- 1:04:45 – 1:07:40
It’s Not Just What You Say, It’s How People Hear It
- VGVinh Giang
down. Now, those are things you can do before you go in. One last thing you can do before you go in, actually, is what makes us really nervous is being self-conscious, but you can only be self-conscious if you're thinking about yourself. So then stop thinking about yourself and realize it was not about you. If you're going on stage, it's not about you. It's about every single person you're gonna serve. And I'll be honest with you, too. Coming here, I felt a bit nervous, right? But then I thought to myself, "Well, it's not about me. It's about me trying to add as much value as I can to Jay's audience, and it's about Jay. I wanna connect with Jay." And the moment I made it about you and I made it about the audience we're about to serve, I had no cognitive capacity left to be nervous because I'm not thinking about myself. So to me, the- these three small tools, you got the breathing, get rid of the adrenaline, and mindset shift, it helps calm you down.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- VGVinh Giang
And now when you go in, if you find yourself racing in it, then pause and take a deep breath, and that's how you can remedy it. 'Cause if you go in, you're like, "Oh, I'm here. I'm really excited" [inhales deeply] .
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
You take a deep breath [inhales deeply] and then continue speaking. And right after the deep breath, it's gonna slow your speech right down. Even when I did it there, all of a sudden feel more relaxed now.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
The reason people aren't f- comfortable with the pause is because they don't know what the pause is for.
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- VGVinh Giang
And when you think the pause is useless, that's why you develop the behavior of filling the pause, always talking. Um, uh, non... Filler words as well. And so, like, do you know what I mean? We do that because we don't understand the power of the pause, whereas the pause allows people to process what you're saying. Think about it now, listeners. As you're listening to that, the moment I paused, you just did it again. You had a moment to process the things that I was saying. If I just talk really quickly and I don't pause at all when I'm talking, all of a sudden now everything that I said has no clear points because you didn't have any time to process anything that I'm saying. All of a sudden, everything off the wall becomes mumbo jumbo.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Right? It just becomes nothing.
- JSJay Shetty
100%.
- VGVinh Giang
Whereas pausing gives people time to process. Pausing gives you time to breathe so that you can relax so that you don't speak too quickly. There are so many benefits to it. I mean, think of music again. I love using music analogies because the most important note in an orchestra happens after a crescendo, which is what? Silence. They'll build the peak and then all of a sudden the musicians will play and play, and it'll get to this peak moment, and then justNothing. And the audience is in awe of what they just experienced.
- JSJay Shetty
You speak about it so powerfully, and it's so convincing. I'm like, "This is-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
... this, this has to hit," because I, I applied that even... and that come, come back to Zoom calls, meetings, everything. I think it's so important to not feel that the person who talks the fastest is the one who will get their point in. And I think that's sometimes the
- 1:07:40 – 1:13:25
Matching Energy: How to Meet People Where They Are
- JSJay Shetty
thing of like, "Hey, guys, so I just really wanna share this with you because if we just, if we just did this, this would solve everything. Like, this is the thing." And it's almost like you've actually lost all importance because of that pace.
- VGVinh Giang
Also because there's no clarity.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- VGVinh Giang
If people don't process anything that you say, there's no clarity.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- VGVinh Giang
Y- you have to think about communication as not what I just send, it's how it's being received.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- VGVinh Giang
Right? It's not, "Oh, I've sent it. It's done. It's out there. What do you think?"
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
"I, I don't even remember what you said."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
And I think, I think that's a, that's a big mistake. And un- often people do that, again, because they don't understand that the way you deliver has an impact on how others receive.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I really appreciate your switch to the audience consciousness versus the us consciousness.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
Because it seems really small, it seems really obvious, it seems kind of, of course, that makes sense.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
But it really is everything.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Because all of a sudden, if you're thinking about being impressive-
- VGVinh Giang
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... that's a really hard place to live from, because now you're judging every word that comes out of your mouth, and judging whether it's impressive-
- VGVinh Giang
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... whether it's powerful, whether it's profound, whether it's whatever it is, and now you actually have no thinking space-
- VGVinh Giang
Yes
- JSJay Shetty
... to actually be profound, [laughs] impressive-
- VGVinh Giang
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
... and all those things you want it to be. It's just not possible.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Whereas if you were thinking, "Hey, what's that person in the audience struggling with?"
- VGVinh Giang
Mm-hmm.
- 1:13:25 – 1:16:02
How to Show Up as the Bigger, Bolder Version of Yourself
- JSJay Shetty
turns up, and they're in a really sad, low mood.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
And in your head, you're thinking, "Come on."
- VGVinh Giang
Ah. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Like, "Come on."
- VGVinh Giang
Oh, no.
- JSJay Shetty
"Bring more energy," right? And it-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... and then you get frustrated.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
And now you feel you're dragging them up a hill, whereas if you were like, "Hey, I just wanna check in with you," like-
- VGVinh Giang
"Are you all right?"
- JSJay Shetty
"Uh, yeah, how's it going?"
- VGVinh Giang
You lower your volume, too.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- VGVinh Giang
You meet them where they are. You're like, "Hey," you know, "noticed on the other call you weren't... Are you okay?" And all of a sudden, people are way more likely to open up if you use your instrument in that way, as opposed to, "Oh, mate, what's going on?"
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. [laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
"What's going on, man? Come on. It... L- l- look at the weather outside. It's amazing today. What's going on?" They're definitely not opening up to that person.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
But I didn't have that sensitivity growing up. No sensitivity. I didn't know why so many of my relationships when I was young would fail. Like, I remember [laughs] one of my partners when I was really young, where I would ask her, I, I'd say to her on a Friday night, I'm like, "Hey, I know we've got dinner plans tonight, but the guys are doing a LAN party, and we're gonna go play CS:GO. Can I go?" And she'll go, "Yeah, fine, just go then." And I just went, "You are the most amazing-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
"... girlfriend in... I, I thought you would've said no." And then I went.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Next day she broke up with me, and I'm like, "Why?" And I'd listen to Backstreet Boys, and I'd be like, "Why did she break up with me? She, but she said yes." And that's when I went through that era. I was like, "Women are so confusing. It doesn't make sense. She said I could go." And, and it was because I wasn't listening to the emotion in the voice. I didn't even have that gear, man. I just thought what people said, "Oh, that's it. I take you for w- you said so. It's fine. So it's fine."
- JSJay Shetty
And we justify it.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah, we do.
- JSJay Shetty
We think, "No, but you did say that."
- VGVinh Giang
"But you said yes."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
And she goes, "Yeah, I, I know I did, but, but that's not the point." And, and then-
- 1:16:02 – 1:18:00
Why Public Speaking Is Still the #1 Fear
- JSJay Shetty
... I'm a certain way-
- VGVinh Giang
Yes
- JSJay Shetty
... because it's a conversation.
- VGVinh Giang
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
But when I'm on stage, I get the license to be funny and-
- VGVinh Giang
Yes
- JSJay Shetty
... uh, banter with people and bring people in the audience into that conversation because I can.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah, you're a bigger version of you.
- JSJay Shetty
And I can't... Totally. I, I, always say that when I'm on stage, I'm the 360 version of myself-
- VGVinh Giang
Ah
- JSJay Shetty
... because I get to be all things-
- VGVinh Giang
Yes
- JSJay Shetty
... to everyone that I want to be.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
Whereas here, I'm, I'm having a one-to-one conversation. This is kind of what I'm like when I'm having a one-to-one conversation with a friend, a family member, whatever it may be-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... because that's my natural way of being, and then if I'm making a video where there's no people-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... I find it, that's like the most minimal version of me.
- VGVinh Giang
[laughs] Really?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, because it's, to me, it's all about energy exchange.
- VGVinh Giang
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
So if I'm in a room full of 10, 20, 30 people, maybe 10,000 people-
- VGVinh Giang
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... there's so much energy to play with.
- VGVinh Giang
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
It can be fun. It can be this. It can be that. When I'm with you, we're matching each other's energy, and then-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... if I'm on my own and there's just a camera, then I can think about who's gonna watch it. But really, I'm only letting 1% of me be me. For me, for me, I'm saying. I'm not saying that's the way for everyone.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah, no, but it-
- 1:18:00 – 1:25:07
How Filming Yourself Can Instantly Improve Your Speaking
- VGVinh Giang
when my students who are new to communication skills, they, they miss the mark.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- VGVinh Giang
And usually, they're too small.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- VGVinh Giang
More often than not, they have this fear, "I'm gonna be too much." No, no, no. The danger is not you're too much. The danger is that you've been living way too small. For me, it's always about pushing them up, but the fear they have is, "Oh, but it's too much." I'm like, "No, no, no, no, it's too little. You're playing too small." Right? So again, that sensitivity is important to develop. When, when, when you're with 30 people, it's a different version of you, and it's okay because you, you have to be a bigger version of you to be effective-
- JSJay Shetty
Yes
- VGVinh Giang
... in that medium.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- VGVinh Giang
Otherwise, it will seem like you're, you, you don't care. Otherwise, sometimes it, it can come across like you don't care.
- JSJay Shetty
It's such an art, and what we're talking about is obviously the spectrum of-
- VGVinh Giang
Yes
- JSJay Shetty
... you know, the, the kind of like the expertise, the mastery, all the way through to the challenge. And it, and it does blow my mind that public speaking comes out as the number one fear-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... in the world.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And 75% of the world's population is scared of public speaking, and it's something we have to do every single day.
- VGVinh Giang
And people think, "But I'm not on stage." Yeah, but anytime you open your mouth in public, that's public speaking.
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- VGVinh Giang
It is public speaking.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
You're publicly speaking every single day. And, and that also shows an opportunity, Jay. If 75% of people fear it, that means only one in four people kind of do it. So if you can get good at this skill, you now have a competitive edge. A- and one of the greatest things that I've noticed is that-Why do creators become such great communicators? They do.
- JSJay Shetty
100%.
- VGVinh Giang
I mean, watch, watch creators. Why do they become such great communicators? It's because they film themselves every single day, and they watch it back, and they notice behaviors that serve them, and they notice behaviors that don't serve them, and then they remove the behaviors that don't serve them. Because one of these things that I ask a lot of creators, I always ask them, I'm like, "So what formal communication training did you do?" And they're like, "What?"
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
"What are you talking about, Vinh?" I'm like, "I had to learn so many years to learn how..." And from that simple pro- That's why I wanna bring it back again for the listeners, right? That simple process, if you just committed to the process of recording yourself once a week, you will now have one of the competitive edges that all creators have. They're impeccable communicators. And why do you keep going back to the creators that you love every single week, you keep watching every video? It's because they're able to form a connection with you. What skill are they using to form that connection with you? The ability to communicate and articulate ideas with clarity.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- VGVinh Giang
So all of a sudden now, you kinda see that hidden secret there-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- VGVinh Giang
... where it's about they just keep putting in the reps.
- JSJay Shetty
It's... I never even put two and two together. It's such a great point that they're actually practicing that exact-
- 1:25:07 – 1:28:35
What Makes Steve Jobs’ Speech So Powerful
- VGVinh Giang
go look up your top five communicators.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
And then sit down, watch a few, break it down. What are they doing that you love so much? Try those behaviors on. Now you have an ocean of different behaviors to play with.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
And you'll try some of them on, and you go, "That's not me." Like, same with me. I, I... when I first started-... speaking on stage, I admired Anthony Robbins so much. I was like, "Wow," 'cause I read his books, it changed my life, and I was like, "I've gotta try to be like Anthony Robbins." And I jumped up and I did it, and it felt so wrong.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Because I was like, "This is not me." But that was okay. I had to have done that-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- VGVinh Giang
... to know it wasn't for me.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- VGVinh Giang
I had to have eaten that dish to know I didn't like the flavor. But too many of us judge it before we try it.
- JSJay Shetty
Absolutely.
- VGVinh Giang
"I'm not even gonna try that dish." No, try it.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
Because that's how I discovered some of my favorite dishes in my life was I, I, I resisted it, I tried it, loved it. Loved it after that, right?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
So, so again, start looking up a list of five communicators that you love, and then just pick a few different things from them and try it on.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
It's all right.
- JSJay Shetty
We share one of our favorite communicators, which is a bit more obscure, that most people may not be aware of and may not see him as a communicator. It's Derren Brown.
- VGVinh Giang
Oh.
- JSJay Shetty
I think Derren is absolutely-
- VGVinh Giang
Oh.
- JSJay Shetty
Derren is my favorite person on stage-
- VGVinh Giang
Oh
- JSJay Shetty
... to watch.
- VGVinh Giang
Showmanship.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
It... W- Showmanship is a magician's fancy word for communication skills-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- 1:28:35 – 1:34:06
Why We Sense When Someone Feels Inauthentic
- VGVinh Giang
It's so strong that it doesn't matter how you play, it hits you, and that's where you can lean into the content. There is some content that is just so powerful that regardless of delivery, it hits because of the profound nature that exists within the lyrics. And then I've seen pianists play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, and I was flabbergasted.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
One of the most basic songs you've ever heard, and the way they added chords to it and the rhythm and the way they re- un- I've never heard Twinkle Twinkle Little Star like that. So you can take something basic and use delivery to make it amazing, or you could take something truly profound and have no delivery and it's just as amazing.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- VGVinh Giang
And that's the beauty of music.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
That's the beauty of poems-
- JSJay Shetty
It's a great example
- VGVinh Giang
... and, and art. And it's the beauty of that, right? And, and you just have to determine for you, with what you're currently doing, does it have that level of profoundness, and can you keep that level of profoundness that consistently throughout this life where you can just forget about delivery? And if you can, damn, good for you.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
That's amazing.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, if you're Steve Jobs. [laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah, if you're Steve Jobs, that's incredible. And everything you say is that potent, then you don't have to worry about your communication skills. Because one of, one of the... I, I'm sure you get this, you get trolls, but I always have trolls-
- JSJay Shetty
Oh, yeah
- VGVinh Giang
... on my content where they're like, "Oh, yeah? But then what about Elon Musk? He doesn't have to work. What about his communication skills?" And I always say, I, I, I shouldn't ever respond to these, but sometimes I get a bit cheeky and I do. And I go, "Listen, mate, if you're as smart and intelligent as Elon Musk, forget about communication skills. Just get us to Mars. Make us a multi-planetary species," right?
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
Like, forget about it. Please, please save the human race. But if you're a mere mortal like me, then you probably should work on this skill."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- VGVinh Giang
But do you know what I mean?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, it's so good.
- VGVinh Giang
So, so again... And, and sometimes, and sometimes you're right. Sometimes when you have something that profound, you also wanna let go of some of the bells and whistles.
- JSJay Shetty
I agree, yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
You wanna let go of some of that.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- VGVinh Giang
It's a delivery choice and a delivery style.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. A good balanced one that I've seen is Matthew McConaughey's Oscar speech-
- VGVinh Giang
Oh
- JSJay Shetty
... when he accepted for Dallas Buyers Club.
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
It's like that perfect balance-
- 1:34:06 – 1:44:33
Vinh on Final Five
- VGVinh Giang
say. They go, "Why are you doing that with your voice? Why are you doing that with your... Why are you doing that?"
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
A- and it's because something my, my vocal coach used to say, too. She used to say this. She goes, "Your voice is your personality." And I used to re- I'd be like, "What?" And she goes, "No, no, no. Your voice is your personality, Vinh. When people compliment you on your personality, the literal thing they're complimenting is how you're playing your instrument."
- JSJay Shetty
Interesting.
- VGVinh Giang
Because that's how we perceive personality.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
We perceive personality through the use of the instrument.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- VGVinh Giang
Personality comes through music. That's why you can listen to a soundtrack... I, I, I do this experiment with my ki- uh, not only my kids, but my students, too. I love doing this experiment where I just play a piano track, and I get them to listen to it, and I go, "What words come to mind?" And it's crazy. They'll say things like, my students will say things like, "Oh, I, I hear complexity. I hear drama. I hear, oh, I hear pain. I hear misery. I hear nostalgia." And, and, and I always wake them up to it, and I go, "Do you know there were no words in that? None. None whatsoever, yet you got a world of meaning from that." People get a world of meaning just from the sound of your voice and how you use your voice.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- VGVinh Giang
So if you pay no attention to that, that means you're putting no intention into how you're coming across.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, and I love that point, man. I love your heart for saying that, too, that so much of the time when we think someone's inauthentic, it's really just inexperience.
- VGVinh Giang
They're trying something new.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, they're trying something new and-
- VGVinh Giang
They're exploring
- JSJay Shetty
... and we always look at it, and we judge them, and we think, "Oh, they're fake." They, you know, and half the time it's just someone trying to figure something out.
- VGVinh Giang
And then what we don't realize we're doing is then we give them negative feedback that immediately puts them into the same patterns of behavior that has been causing them pain because we're not as compassionate. We see what they do. We don't see why they do what they do.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- VGVinh Giang
Right? Whereas I think if we took a moment to go, "Why would that person do that? Oh, maybe they're exploring their instrument." Right? And I think, I think it was Carl Jung that said that. Again, we, we see what people do. We don't see why they do what they do.
- JSJay Shetty
Vinh, it's been, uh, such a joy talking to you, man. You are-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... you're brilliant. You're, you're not just a brilliant communicator. You've got a great heart, too, and-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah, thanks, man
- JSJay Shetty
... it comes across in the way you wanna help people and see them grow and, and the amount that you've thought through the challenges, the trip-ups, the... All the blocks that we run into, man. It's, it's really beautiful, and I really thank you and commend you for your amazing work, and it's, uh, it's very special. So thank you, man.
- VGVinh Giang
Jay, thank you for giving me the opportunity. I, I'm from Adelaide, South Australia. I, I never thought that I'd ever be able to connect with you in person and hang out with you, Jay. This is, this is unreal.
- JSJay Shetty
Oh.
- VGVinh Giang
Thank you for the opportunity, Jay.
- JSJay Shetty
Feel it... No, I'm a fan-
- VGVinh Giang
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... so it's easy. Yeah.
Episode duration: 1:44:33
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