Skip to content

By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.

Jay Shetty PodcastJay Shetty Podcast

Apple Music’s Zane Lowe ON Manifesting Your Dream Life & Finding Your Life Partner

Today, Zane Lowe sits down with us for a conversation about success in career and relationships.

Zane LoweguestJay Shettyhost
Oct 6, 20231h 21mWatch on YouTube

Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.

Great conversations run long. Their best ideas don't have to.

uListen is free on iPhone, iPad, Android, Chrome, and Claude.

See how

Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 2:07

    Intro

    1. ZL

      Just pull the car over, stop driving in a direction that you think you should go in because you're directionless right now. Stop. Let all the cars drive past you and enjoy the fact that you're actually stopping.

    2. SP

      It is Zane Lowe.

    3. JS

      Zane Lowe, international DJ.

    4. SP

      That's right.

    5. JS

      Apple Music's creative director.

    6. SP

      I love you, Zane.

    7. ZL

      I'd rather just start.

    8. JS

      Yeah, me too.

    9. ZL

      I don't really have a big introduction.

    10. JS

      Yeah.

    11. ZL

      I really genuinely thought, "I'm just gonna live with these aches. This will be it for the rest of my life." Why would you wanna live with pain? The harder you work, the more you achieve. The more you achieve, the more you tell yourself you're okay. The more you tell yourself you're okay not dealing with this shit. [laughs]

    12. JS

      Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments, and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

    13. ZL

      The bestselling author and host.

    14. JS

      The number one health and wellness podcast. On Purpose with Jay Shetty. How do you describe what you do? How, how do you like to choose... Because I feel like when you have a role that is public, like I always get asked, "What do you want your lower third to say?" And I don't like being defined by the lists of roles and titles. So how, how would you describe what you do or what you believe in?

    15. ZL

      I agree. I mean, I think roles and titles make it easier to work with other people with roles and titles. Um, but I think in, in life it's different. In my life, I'm just a fan. I'm just a, I'm a fan. I'm, I'm someone who discovered something very early on in life that stuck with me. Um, I knew it was gonna be very special and important to my development, um, to my identity, to helping me find my way in life. And once I kind of made it a singularity rather than a, one of many hobbies, it, it just, I just tried to immerse myself in as much of it as possible, like almost obsessively. And so, um, I'm just a big, big fan of what I love, which, and as outside of my family and friends, is music. So I'm just, I'm just a super fan.

    16. JS

      That is, I love that. That's such a great, cool way of defining

  2. 2:07 – 8:25

    How A Life-long Passion For Music Evolved Into A Successful Career

    1. JS

      yourself. With, uh, with that, you've sat down with obviously so many incredible artists and beautiful interviews. I've watched your, one of my favorite interviews is yours with Harry Styles, actually. That was, I thought that was brilliant. But when was the first time you felt like a fan when you hadn't met someone? Like when was the first time you felt like a real fan when you didn't sit opposite that person and you didn't know that person? And do you remember that moment?

    2. ZL

      You mean like at a concert and stuff? Like-

    3. JS

      At a concert or like when you bought your first record, or like where was that experience of your first moment?

    4. ZL

      What a beautiful question out the gate, bro. Like what an amazing question. Um, the first time I really, I really realized that, um, it was chemical, it, it was, um, it wasn't really a, something by design, it was, uh, it was reactive, um, was probably going and seeing a band called Split Enz, which is, um, arguably New Zealand's most influential and legendary band. Um, they were around predominantly in the '70s and had a lot of success in the '80s. Um, in the, in the, in the late '80s they, they sort of splintered off and Neil Finn left to go and form Crowded House, and of course everyone knows Crowded House and Neil Finn, Don't Dream It's Over, and you know, he had a huge, he's had huge success and a huge career, as have other members of that band. But in, in their heyday, uh, when I went and saw them as a kid with my mum, um, I, I think being in that crowd and reacting the way I did to the music, which I don't really remember, my mum always told me that it was, it was almost like an out-of-body experience. Like I was like I was in church or something. Like I wasn't, I wasn't listening to the music in the same way that she'd seen me at home, or she, she was looking left and right. I was somewhere else for the entire-

    5. JS

      In a trance.

    6. ZL

      Yeah.

    7. JS

      Yeah.

    8. ZL

      In, in a way, in, in some kind of trance. And so that's when I think she realized, oh, this, it grabs this kid. And then I think also going and seeing Stop Making Sense, the movie by Talking Heads, was when I realized, like, I wanted to get as close to... 'Cause it was different with Split Enz, they were right there on the stage, but seeing Talking Heads on that screen, and I made my mum take me to that movie two days in a row. As a young person but a little bit older, that, that was when I was like, "Oh, how do I get to them?"

    9. JS

      Mm.

    10. ZL

      Like, "They're on a big movie screen right now. How do I get to them?"

    11. JS

      Mm.

    12. ZL

      Like, Split Enz is down the road, but Talking Heads is somewhere, like they may as well be on Mars.

    13. JS

      [laughs]

    14. ZL

      You know?

    15. JS

      Yeah. That's a beautiful answer. Yeah, I, I love the, I love the idea of firsts. I remember, I think the first movie I saw in theaters was Cool Runnings.

    16. ZL

      Yeah.

    17. JS

      Which I loved.

    18. ZL

      Incredible film.

    19. JS

      That, that was such a great first experience at the theaters, and I was like, "Wow, this is-"

    20. ZL

      Yeah. I don't know anyone who doesn't love that film.

    21. JS

      I know. It was just, it was such a great, like, first experience. And then my first album that I properly listened to, so I, it's weirdly, I, I talk about this, I haven't talked about this a lot, but it makes sense talking about it with you. Like I grew up in a home where I was encouraged to learn how to play instruments, but we never listened to a lot of music at home.

    22. ZL

      Interesting. So it was more discipline than an enjoyment level?

    23. JS

      Correct.

    24. ZL

      Yeah.

    25. JS

      It was more like an extracurricular academic activity because it would look good on my resume when I applied-

    26. ZL

      Right

    27. JS

      ... to a better school later on.

    28. ZL

      Right, right.

    29. JS

      And it really hampered my ability to, to love instruments. And so I grew up playing the piano. I did grade, up to grade four in the piano. I did grade five theory. I played percussion.

    30. ZL

      All the while not really knowing what listening to music, the feeling is. Y- yeah.

  3. 8:25 – 10:16

    We Manifest The Things We Focus On

    1. JS

      Do you remember, if you could track back for us even before what consciously comes to mind, what was that first step you took to say, "I'm gonna pursue this"? Because I feel today it's really fascinating that there's even more choices. In one sense, there's even more access, but people who are listening today, even myself a few years ago, I found myself having the limiting belief and the hopelessness almost of, "My dream's really far away. I don't think it's possible. Those kind of things don't happen to people like me. I'm not set up to succeed."

    2. ZL

      Well, because I think at that, in that moment in time, and I've felt that many times in my life, I think that what happens is we're at our most effective when, when we have some kind of singularity to focus on. You know, it's like, "This is what I love. This is who I love. This is the person I most want to have this conversation with in my life right now. This is what I need to do to be healthy." And I think when we, when we're focused on things that are ultimately giving us purpose, uh, it, it, it, we manifest without even realizing it, you know? And, and I think when we be- get into that place of hopelessness that you've been in, I've been in, others have been in, um, and are in, it's, it's when we, um, split that singularity up into 55 things, 100 things, 1,000 things, a million things. At best, they contradict each other or counter each other. At worst, they actively fight for, for your attention, and you can't give your attention to, to everything, and so that's where you end up just standing still, questioning your own purpose, your own abilities, y- because it seems hard just to take a step forward because there's so much noise that, that, that's around you. When I've been at my most effective and best for myself is when I've been l- least affected by that noise and the most focused on what I know is moving me emotionally and inspirationally in my life.

    3. JS

      Yeah, that's ... I've never heard it put that way, but, uh, that resonates deeply.

  4. 10:16 – 12:35

    Dedicate Your Focus To Things That Feel Authentic To You

    1. JS

      I remember I sat down with one of my spiritual teachers probably when I was, I don't know, maybe like 10 years ago, and I said, "I've got all these ideas. I want to do all these things, but I don't know where to start." It was what you just described, that like fragmented, distracted-

    2. ZL

      Yeah, static

    3. JS

      ... static, yeah. And, and I said to him, "I just, I don't know where to start." And he said something beautiful to me. He said, he said, "Open every door that you possibly can." And then he said, "The doors that close, let them close, and just keep walking through the ones that remain open."

    4. ZL

      That's amazing.

    5. JS

      And it was, it was the best advice I've ever got in life-

    6. ZL

      Yeah

    7. JS

      ... because I felt like all of us were just standing at one door or 10 doors just trying to open all of them.

    8. ZL

      You know what my wife says to me when I get like that? She's like, "Pull ..." Not literally, and maybe sometimes literally, but she says, "Pull the car over."

    9. JS

      Yeah.

    10. ZL

      And what she means is, is that, um, just pull the car over. Stop driving in a direction that you think you should go in because you're directionless right now, and you're actually possibly driving yourself further away from where you should be.

    11. JS

      Mm.

    12. ZL

      Pull the car over, stop, let all the cars drive past you, and don't worry about where they're going. Let the traffic go past you. Don't worry about it. Just enjoy the fact that you're actually stopping. Ignore the traffic. Ignore everyone else. Focus on where you wanna go, choose your direction, and focus on it.

    13. JS

      Mm.

    14. ZL

      'Cause right now, and this is, I mean, you know, when she's at her most lull, she's like, "'Cause right now you're veering all over the freeway." [laughs]

    15. JS

      [laughs]

    16. ZL

      You know? You're like, you're, you have no idea where you're going.

    17. JS

      Yeah.

    18. ZL

      And, you know, it's just, to me that kind of, it, it, it speaks a similar truth which is it's, we're all in everyday life entirely capable of just, of being distracted and distracting ourselves and allowing us to, ourselves to be distracted. And, um, it's a part of life because it's noisy. It's really noisy. And especially the older you get, the more you see, the more you absorb, the more you try to own, the more you try to define yourself through the things you own. This is an awesome space, but you got stuff in here, right? At some point, if you leave, you gotta figure out where the stuff goes. Do you take it? Do you leave it? These are all decisions, right? Everything's a decision. And I think that, you know, when we're probably most capable of making the decisions that ultimately charter a path of, of, of true holistic and, and spiritual and also just am- am- ambition level v- value is when we're focused on simplicity, simple things.

    19. JS

      Yeah, it's true.

    20. ZL

      You know? Simple doors.

    21. JS

      It's true. Yeah, and it's... What I've found really

  5. 12:35 – 17:18

    The Importance Of Creating Space Within Your Mind

    1. JS

      attractive is a peaceful mind and an internal simplicity allows for navigation of external chaos.

    2. ZL

      It makes us more capable-

    3. JS

      Yeah

    4. ZL

      ... of moving through that thrash, yes.

    5. JS

      Correct, yeah. Like, I've, I've always thought about what I've tried to work on a lot, and I s- work on every day because I'm not there yet, is to refine my internal intention to be so simple and clear-

    6. ZL

      Mm

    7. JS

      ... that then the external complexity which naturally comes with being an entrepreneur and running a business and everything else that comes with trying to make an impact and, and trying to provide for your family and the people you love, but it's like the reason for doing it is just one little dot.

    8. ZL

      Oh, dude, when I'm at my most indecisive-

    9. JS

      Yeah

    10. ZL

      ... I probably had a few nights drinking some wine. Um, my work is really busy and I'm not really seeing... I'm not, I'm not seeing it. I'm not seeing the playbook for that week. Um, and someone can call me and ask me the most simple thing and I can't make that decision, and it's, it's because, to your point, I've clouded my own ability to be decisive.

    11. JS

      Mm.

    12. ZL

      Um, and sometimes it's not, it's not my, it's not my decisions. Sometimes it's just stuff going off around you. Uh, I mean, the thing is as well about, about trying to find that internal balance, that clarity internally, is that that's where the most noise is. I mean, that, this all pales to that.

    13. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    14. ZL

      Like, think about every experience and every memory and everything and whether it's trauma or joy that we're, we're absorbing all the time. Like, that's why I love therapy so much and, and if you can do it and you can afford it and it's something that you would, are, are willing to try, I'm a, I'm a big believer in it because it's... it to me it just creates space.

    15. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    16. ZL

      It just helps you, like, down, like, 30% the trash, and now I have space to fill it with stuff based on my learnings and what I truly know about myself that is of value to me versus the stuff that I either inherited that I never wanted in the first place or stuff that I thought I wanted that is not actually good for me. Like, just get rid of all that, right?

    17. JS

      Yeah.

    18. ZL

      And, uh, it's a good great way to clear out and because that is to me the noisiest for me.

    19. JS

      Mm.

    20. ZL

      That is way noisier than what's outside this door.

    21. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    22. ZL

      Way noisier. So you say you're not there yet, I'm never gonna get there, Jay.

    23. JS

      [laughs] Me too.

    24. ZL

      But I love, I love the process.

    25. JS

      Yes, the pursuit. But I, I like the way you describe therapy as a clear out because I don't think that's how it's often always seen, and it's really interesting, right? We all know, "I need to clean my wardrobe out, I need to get rid of some of my clothes," and-

    26. ZL

      And it feels good when you do

    27. JS

      ... and it feels good when you do, but we don't think about our thoughts that way.

    28. ZL

      Yeah. And we are finite. We have finite space.

    29. JS

      Mm.

    30. ZL

      I think we have finite ability to be able to process certainly emotionally-

  6. 17:18 – 21:40

    The True Purpose Of Music Is To Inspire and Create Community

    1. JS

      the things I me- I wanted to go back a couple of steps was something you mentioned that was beautiful where you described your trance-like experience almost of being lost, and it reminded me of the visual which I think Baz Luhrmann did a great job of in the new Elvis movie. Like, when you see young-

    2. ZL

      I like that movie.

    3. JS

      Yeah, I, I really like the visual-

    4. ZL

      Yeah

    5. JS

      ... storytelling of it. I thought it was re- and the music was spectacular.

    6. ZL

      Yeah, yeah.

    7. JS

      But I thought the scenes of young Elvis having those trance-like experiences-

    8. ZL

      Yeah

    9. JS

      ... was, was really, really special. And I wonder what did it feel like when maybe when you were DJing, you were creating that you saw people having that kind of experience to you? How was it like almost being on the opposite end?

    10. ZL

      Well, the reason I, I, I chose to DJ in the first place was because I think there's always been a performative part of my nature that, um, I, I, I sort of turn, turn my back's too strong a term. But as I, as I found myself in the, in the media side of things and I guess connecting the artist to the fan, which I love to do- It, it meant I didn't really have so much of an outlet for that un- until I got to radio, and then I guess that started to come out in the way I broadcast and the way that I played records. It was very, I was very sort of like, uh, and I still am, but very much during my time at the BBC I was very active with the music. I liked to use effects and reverbs and sing along to the songs and pull them up and explode them and end them early, and I just saw them as things to kind of play with rather than just press play, sit back, think of something to say, wait for the song to end, say it, press... Uh, that is actually the most respectful way to treat music-

    11. JS

      [laughs]

    12. ZL

      ... in the media. And, and my favorite DJs do that. Not all of them, but, but some of my favorite DJs are the ones who pull a song up and play it five times in 30 minutes and scream over it and get me excited and make me connect to the music in a different way. That's an example of the performative side of who I am, and so I started to get that outlet in radio, and then, and then I was like, well, you know, I miss being on stage. I miss that, that being in front of crowds. How would I carve up, up space for myself as a DJ? And when I started to sort of carve out my identity as a DJ, I was trying to do so in a way that was, um, built out of the, the kind of chaos that I love about music, the, um, uh, genre, in- indefinable genre violence of The Clash. Like, I don't know what they make half the time, right? The way the Bomb Squad made Public Enemy records and Ice Cube records and just like, whoa, is that a chainsaw? Like, what's going on? Like, how did, wh- hang on, what did they just do? Did they stop that? The way the Beastie Boys did it with Paul's Boutique, you know? Um, you know, "Da, ba, da, and I got all my stuff. I'm going back to New York City. What the heck? I do believe I've had enough. Digga doo doo doo doo doo doo." Like, what are they dropping in? Where are they going? What's happening? Why is this happening? What's going on? Like, it's just full of surprises, left turns, right turns. The whole thing is just completely unpredictable, and I tried to do that. So I say all that to say that I, I had to learn how to put people in a trance, because most of the time I think I was just hurting them. [laughs]

    13. JS

      [laughs]

    14. ZL

      Their sensibilities at least, you know?

    15. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    16. ZL

      I was just like, they were just like, "Whoa," and some kids got it and were like, "This is awesome," and some kids were like, "Man, I just want a house mix."

    17. JS

      Yeah.

    18. ZL

      Like, can you just like mix something and blend something, you know?

    19. JS

      Yeah.

    20. ZL

      So I mean, my, I mean, for, for me, like, the joy I got out when I was DJing of watching the way people reacted to music was just realizing that in that, in that moment in time, whatever else was going, and I'm sure every artist would tell you this, who, who gets to step on a stage and, and do anything in that, in that environment, knowing that in that moment in time, whatever else has happened before or is, or they're worried about happening after s- does- doesn't really matter, that as far as being in the moment is concerned, you, you get to share in that with people and you get to try to create an environment where that matters. And every DJ that I've ever played with or toured with, the greats of all time right through to, you know, my friends, that's what really im- is, is the... If you boil it down to its, to its primary source, I think, it's about creating a community and experience that exists in the moment, that is free of the thrash of life and is really there to just inspire people to, um, yeah, go into that space that I was in as a kid.

    21. JS

      Yeah.

    22. ZL

      That and not have to socialize with people, which if you're socially anxious like me, then be a DJ.

    23. JS

      [laughs] It protects you.

    24. ZL

      Yeah. [laughs] You never have to speak to anyone again for the rest of your life if you don't want to.

    25. JS

      [laughs]

    26. ZL

      And no one expects you to.

    27. JS

      I was, I was gonna ask you

  7. 21:40 – 25:44

    How Therapy Helped Prepare Zane For Parenthood

    1. JS

      that, actually. Like, you, you talk- you touched on, like, the importance of therapy and you were saying that's worked for you. What was it initially that guided you in that direction? A, how did you, why did you specifically choose to therapy as a modality to support you in whatever you were looking, and what were you looking for from it?

    2. ZL

      Uh, parenthood. You know, I became a father, and, um, I realized in that moment that I was ill-prepared to be, to, to share my best. Um, and so I had to do the work in order to be at my best, and I'm incredibly grateful to my wife and to my friends and my family for encouraging me to do that. Um, at the time, I was at, at my lowest point, I think. Um, and it was really hard. But in doing that work, my life just changed s- like for the better in every way and, um, and ultimately, you know, gave me the ability and the tools to be able to l- like and love myself enough to love the people that I love more than anything in the world completely and without compromise. I think if I hadn't done that work, I think I would've always either felt compromised in my ability to love others, certainly love my kids and my wife, and, um, be loved. And I think that, you know, that is the thing that really ultimately makes me the saddest is thinking back to that alternative and how that feels for people. I think to be loved and to love completely is the, is the purpose. I think that is it. Someone who is feeling that sense of love and commitment has to let go for us to exist, and we have to let go to move on, and somewhere in the middle it's just about the ability to be loved and to love.

    3. JS

      Do you think that you fell out of love with yourself or that you were never in love with yourself in the first place?

    4. ZL

      Woo. [laughs] I don't know. That's a great question. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I was definitely loved. My mom and my dad and my brother, I mean, I come from a very loving family, but I think that it was a compromised e- environment in terms of it was a divorced environment. And so you see sides of relationships and life and the family structure that, um, are shocking to you as a kid, and it's hard to figure out what your identity is to yourself, let alone what you need to be for everybody else You know, I wanted to fix it and I couldn't. I didn't have the tools. I was too young. I didn't know what to do. And, um, I guess somewhere along the line I just, just lost, lost touch with the simple ambitions of life which are like put yourself, try to put yourself in an environment which is as joyful as possible around people that you love and just try to find as much balance as you can. And I, I just think I, yeah, I don't know man. I mean, I, I definitely came from a background that was, it wasn't dissimilar to in terms of the, the cause and effect as billions of people. I mean, relationships start, relationships end. I love my parents. In the end it was the right decision for them. It was very tough for me as a kid at that moment in time, and I, and I think what I had to do was take responsibility for that rather than, um, either ignore it or, or project some kind of r- really pointless blame on a scenario that was completely out of my control. So like, okay, and the, and so the only way I could really sort of, the only point in my life I could do that was when I realized that I had something that was more important than the blame or more important than the ignoring, and that was being a dad. It's like, all right, like I need to take responsibility for how I'm processing this or not. Otherwise, this beautiful future is, I'm not gonna get the most out of it and neither are they.

    5. JS

      What, what

  8. 25:44 – 26:50

    What Kind Of Father Do You Want To Be For Your Children?

    1. JS

      kind of dad do you want to be and why?

    2. ZL

      I wanna be a father that, and hope I am a father that provides our kids with a sense of unconditional love, a very trusting father who really leans into the principles that I hold dear which are, you know, just love and support and honesty and I, I, you know, I just, I, I want our kids to know that, um, and they do, that, um, I'm happy if they're happy and I'm, I want them to work hard and I want them to be focused on their... And if they're lucky enough to find something they love, which both of them seem to have done, I want them to know that there's no substitute for the graft and for the work and, you know, for the dedication and, and being respectful and, and of your opportunities and making the most of them and keeping a keen, very sharp radar for when the door opens ever so slightly, know how to walk in and know how to stay. But equally I just want them to be happy. And I, and I wanna be someone who they, they feel, like I said, they feel unconditionally understood.

    3. JS

      That takes a lot of work on your part.

    4. ZL

      Well, especially considering that I didn't even understand myself.

    5. JS

      Yeah.

    6. ZL

      So but

  9. 26:50 – 29:59

    Why Is Love Considered An Unspoken Language?

    1. ZL

      I, I'm very lucky. I mean, if we're gonna go there, I, we'll just go there. Like I, you know, I have this incredible partner for life in my wife who, um, has been, I don't even know how to tell you, man. I mean, she's just incredible and-

    2. JS

      Sounds it for sure.

    3. ZL

      Yeah. I mean, you get it.

    4. JS

      Even through the advice that you said she's given.

    5. ZL

      But you get it. But you get it. You get it.

    6. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    7. ZL

      You find someone in your life that makes you better, and then you start to figure out how you can make them better, 'cause it can't go one way. And then you've got a, then you've got something special.

    8. JS

      Yeah. My, my wife has exposed to me flaws that I would have hidden for so long from the world because I could. And then all of a sudden in a very non-judgmental and non-critical way, someone helps you realize not even, it, it's so subconscious as well. It's not even like a teacher.

    9. ZL

      Yeah.

    10. JS

      It's not like having a coach or a guide or someone who's telling you or showing you. It's just someone who effortlessly reveals to you parts of yourself that you know they're the only one that sees it.

    11. ZL

      Well, love is an unspoken language a lot of the time.

    12. JS

      Yeah.

    13. ZL

      I mean, uh, that's why families, if, if you have a very loving unit around you, um, you're able to communicate without saying anything. And I think in v- in a different way when you, when you develop your own family, your own relationships that, you know, ultimately grow with you over the course of your life, it becomes more of an individual, um, experience that, that, that builds from within that out. Um, the language changes again, but it, it's still an unspoken thing. I mean-

    14. JS

      How did you meet?

    15. ZL

      Oh, wow. I mean, Kara and I met when we were kids and, and, um, you know, I always say it was love at first sight for me. It just took her like 10 years to figure it out.

    16. JS

      [laughs]

    17. ZL

      But we, we weren't together-

    18. JS

      Took her 10 years to figure it out. [laughs]

    19. ZL

      Yeah. But we weren't, we weren't together for that time. We just-

    20. JS

      Yeah

    21. ZL

      ... New Zealand's small and we knew each other in certain circles, and we were just kids growing up and running around. And, um, then I moved to London and she followed about eight, six to eight months after that just on her own and just looked me up 'cause we knew each other from back in, back in the day and back home, and she didn't really know anyone out there. And she's like, "Hey, I'm out in London if you wanna get a beer." And this is a true story. We went for a beer at a pub which I think is called The Famous Cock. I mean, there's a lot of cocks in, in London-

    22. JS

      [laughs] In, in, yeah, in England. Yeah

    23. ZL

      ... that serve beer.

    24. JS

      Yes. [laughs]

    25. ZL

      Right? There's Famous Cocks-

    26. JS

      Yeah

    27. ZL

      ... and there's Roosters and Cocks-

    28. JS

      Yeah, yeah

    29. ZL

      ... and there's like, you know, the, the Thames on Henley Cock-

    30. JS

      Yeah

  10. 29:59 – 34:33

    You Need To Grow Together If You Want Your Marriage Can Last

    1. JS

      when you've known someone for that long I always wonder how you allow that growth on both sides, because I guess when you've known someone for that long-

    2. ZL

      Right

    3. JS

      ... you've, you've been three different people or at least more of who you are, and she's becoming more of who she really is. Like, how have you continued? 'Cause you said you've been over toge- together for over two decades or something like that?

    4. ZL

      Yeah, nearly 24 years we've been married.

    5. JS

      Yeah, 24 y-

    6. ZL

      Yeah

    7. JS

      ... yeah, 24 years you've been married you said. Exactly.

    8. ZL

      Yeah.

    9. JS

      Which is a h- really long time. Congratulations.

    10. ZL

      [laughs]

    11. JS

      Like, how d- was that conscious and intentional or you've both just been

    12. ZL

      To stay together that long?

    13. JS

      To stay together, but more importantly to, it seems and it sounds from what I'm hearing, that you've kind of grown together-

    14. ZL

      Oh, yeah

    15. JS

      ... during that time-

    16. ZL

      I, I don't think-

    17. JS

      ... and allowed the growth

    18. ZL

      I don't think you can stay together unless you grow together.

    19. JS

      To, yeah

    20. ZL

      Otherwise, you grow apart. Well, you know, we got, we got married quickly, you know. We were together, and it was like, "Oh, this is meant to be," and then for one reason or another, w- w- our marriage was really dictated by, uh, other things. It was like, uh, visa issues, and she'll have to go home, and because, you know, we, we w- we didn't, we didn't have a... I could stay in London; she couldn't. And so, you know, it really came down to, like, look, if there's a future for this, then this, this has to be the only way forward. And so we got married, and it was a re- in the registry office and with two witnesses, you know? And it was, short of telling our parents, which we did about two weeks beforehand, I mean, it would've been a n- we would have eloped. I mean, it was, it was so fast. And, you know, I think both of us felt like it was forever, but I think it's kind of too simplistic to say that we were ... It's, you know, we, I think we were just trying to keep it, keep it going.

    21. JS

      Yeah.

    22. ZL

      I think we were just like, "Look, this is really great. We don't know what the future holds, but if you have to leave and I stay, it's gonna make it that much harder for us to find out."

    23. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    24. ZL

      And in a way, that works for the kind of people that we are. I mean, not to speak for her, I'm very conscious not to do that-

    25. JS

      Yeah

    26. ZL

      ... 'cause she's her own person. But, um, you know, I think, I think both of us just liked finding out, and we're still finding out, and I think that's what's cool about it, is that, um, there, we didn't go and do it with some kind of major pressure with... No disrespect, I've been to some incredible weddings, and I think you should be entitled to celebrate your union however you want. But for us, not feeling like there were th- sort of 150 pairs of eyes on us, you know, like, "This is for life, everybody," like, I mean, it just, it just suited us to just get going.

    27. JS

      Yeah.

    28. ZL

      Just get to work.

    29. JS

      Yeah.

    30. ZL

      Like, we just woke up one day, and we're like, "Let's just get to work," and we have, and we've been working at it ever since. And it takes work, but as someone said to me once, you know, um, even, even the days when it seems like it's really hard work, um, the next day, um, like anything in life-

  11. 34:33 – 36:42

    Navigating Social Anxiety

    1. JS

      talked about having, uh, social anxiety and, and, you know, being a DJ and talking about how, uh, we were joking about how it's easier to get away with that. But obviously in your career, there's been so many opportunities, as you said, with your children, you want them to be able to walk through the door and stay there, and that requires one to kind of negotiate through that social anxiety sometimes. I'm sure you've had to walk into the rooms, and pitch yourself, and hold your own, and-

    2. ZL

      Yeah

    3. JS

      ... negotiate, and then stand your ground, and whatever it may be, talk to lawyers. And, you know, there's so much to it when you're in, and I feel like there's so many people who are listening and watching where social anxiety is at a point where it cripples them. It stops them from walking into rooms, starting that conversation. What was, what were you saying to yourself? What were you working on in order to move through some of those uncomfortable experiences?

    4. ZL

      It's case by case. You know, my friend was having a function the other night, beautiful function, a total, a reason to celebrate, and I, I, I, I nearly was like, "I can't go."

    5. JS

      No.

    6. ZL

      There wasn't any valid reason for me to not go in my mind from a cerebral kind of, "Oh, that makes sense." None of it made sense. And then there are times when, you know, I'm skipping out the door. It just depends. I mean, for me, in terms of, like, breaking it up into two things, 'cause you make, you made some good points, like, in terms of, like, the social side of it, I try to be kind to myself. I try to allow myself the space to make a decision that's pr- as pressure-free as possible.

    7. JS

      Mm.

    8. ZL

      And then more often than not, I find good, valid reasons to continue forward. I feel that if I apply too much pressure on myself, most of it's unreal.

    9. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    10. ZL

      And then I'll end up just not going anyway, and then I'll feel bad 'cause the unreal will evaporate, and I'll realize that I made a decision that wasn't based in the real.

    11. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    12. ZL

      So I try to, I try to, I know myself enough to get ahead of that and just be like, "You don't have to do anything. Don't go."

    13. JS

      Mm.

    14. ZL

      And once I just s- tell myself that, I'm like, "Oh, well, there's a couple of good reasons to go."

    15. JS

      [laughs]

    16. ZL

      You know? And I start to bring myself forward on that. In terms of the work side of it and the, and getting in the room, I don't know what to tell you. I mean, the few times when I've, when I've, I, I know that I've had to step up and do something that's ultimately helped change the shape of my journey, and therefore my family's journey or whatever, that's when you start getting into the intangible a bit for me.

    17. JS

      Mm.

  12. 36:42 – 42:54

    True Greatness Comes From Knowing How To Access It

    1. ZL

      Into the sort of the magic of the moment and s- what makes performers, athletes, surgeons, I mean, I'm going lofty, but anybody, I mean, some heroes. People do out-of-body things. It's nowhere near on the same level, and I'm not trying to put, like, getting in a room and pitching your best shit at the same thing, but it, it exists in the same space of like I don't quite know why, what's motivating this extra gear-

    2. JS

      Mm-hmm

    3. ZL

      ... but I'm using it.

    4. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    5. ZL

      And I think true greatness comes from people who know how to access it-

    6. JS

      Mm-hmm

    7. ZL

      ... more consciously than I do at this point in my life. Um, you know, you, you talking about, you know, the Michael Jordans of this world who can, the Beyonces of this world who are like, I can... You know, they don't shy away from the occasion. They level up. They see it. They know what it is. They understand. And I'm just talking about the arts now respectfully to everybody else, like, 'cause if I start g- you know, going and apologizing for every other outlet or occupation or thing in life that's more important than the arts to everyone else, then I'm just gonna end up in the, like, the fetal position-

    8. JS

      [laughs]

    9. ZL

      ... and this podcast is gonna be over. So I'm just focusing-

    10. JS

      No, based on your background, I mean, at least, yeah

    11. ZL

      I, I know how it goes. I know how it goes. There's more important things in life than music and the arts. I get it, and I respect it. But for me, that's the world I'm in, so I'm just gonna focus on that. So, um, in the performing arts, you know, I watch, I watch people all the time step up further than they have before, and I just think it's something in us that, um, is there, and sometimes the occasion requires it, and sometimes you meet someone who has found a way to harness it.

    12. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    13. ZL

      And that is when you start dealing with, like, the greats, like, the people who just, they see it. They manifest it. It happens, but then they recognize that it's happening, and then they recognize the feeling, and then they remember that feeling, and then they practice that feeling, and then they get the ball in with .3, .3 seconds to go every time. And that's like, that's when you're dealing with just another level. I'm not there, but I've had a few moments in my life when that gear's kicked in, and I love it. I mean, you know, the job I'm in now, I mean, I, I, I nearly got on a plane and flew home 'cause I just was like, "I don't know where this is going, and I'm unhappy. I don't think, I don't feel, I don't feel like I can do this." And I had a big meeting the next day, and I went the next day and had a great meeting, and it changed everything. So who knows, man? I mean, it just comes out of nowhere. But I'm, I'm more interested in the people who just somehow know how to, like, kick that shit into action.

    14. JS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    15. ZL

      'Cause they exist.

    16. JS

      Yeah, absolutely they exist. Yeah, there's a beautiful book called Flow. Don't know if you've ever come across it. I forget the author's name. It's like Mihaly. I think it's a name, if I mess it up, everyone, please do not be mad at me. I think it's Csikszentmihalyi. I think that's how it's said, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. The book's called Flow, and that's what you're describing, this flow state that people experience where you see freestylers, rappers, musicians, you know, a- athletes, artists, where time stops, but it's really fast and no one knows what's happening. Like, it almost feels like time slows down and speeds up at the same time.

    17. ZL

      I've had a couple of conversations in that state weirdly.

    18. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    19. ZL

      Like, on the record, like, like interview situations where it's like there's been such a nice ex- mood in the room, and I feel that it's such a strong-

    20. JS

      Yeah

    21. ZL

      ... like, to and fro going on in terms-

    22. JS

      Yeah

    23. ZL

      ... of the question, the answer, and then the question, the answer, and it's just been, I'm like, wow, and then someone's like, "Okay, time." It's been going for like two hours. I'm like, it was like that.

    24. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    25. ZL

      I mean, you must have done that too. It's like-

    26. JS

      Yeah, absolutely

    27. ZL

      ... it's lovely. It's really cool when it happens like that too because it's human experience for somebody else, so it feels really nice. I also, you know, my social anxiety, I think, I think it's, it's, it's unique for everybody. I mean, I have no problem walking in a room and being around people. But there's a difference between being present and fitting in or, or, or playing a role that you think is gonna serve a purpose for that environment or that party or whatever, and just being able to be comfortable in yourself.

    28. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    29. ZL

      That's what I'm talking about. Like, I'm not always and, and very often entirely comfortable. I just have, I just have figured out how to maintain.

    30. JS

      Mm-hmm.

  13. 42:54 – 46:20

    How To Recognize A Genuine Connection With An Individual

    1. JS

      And my goal's become very clearly, like my intention is always like, can I find one person tonight who I can bare my soul to?

    2. ZL

      I love that.

    3. JS

      Like, is there one person that I can- ... fully be myself because then at that event, I've fully been myself

    4. ZL

      So how do you know who that person is?

    5. JS

      I, I-

    6. ZL

      I know it probably changes, but is there a constant to that?

    7. JS

      You can get a sense pretty quick. Obviously, and like we're saying, it's respective to what you personally are interested in. So for me, I'm, I'm hoping that I can have a conversation like I'm having with you today, which is meaningful, it's purposeful, it's vulnerable, it's, it's open, it's thoughtful, it's about growth, it's about being better.

    8. ZL

      Like, but, but when, like, when I walked-

    9. JS

      Yeah

    10. ZL

      ... in the house today and we met for the first time-

    11. JS

      Yeah

    12. ZL

      ... and, and we sort of held each other's g- gaze for a second, and it was like, all right, cool, we've got this moment here. Like, it's, it's, it's more than just, like, transactional. Like-

    13. JS

      Yeah

    14. ZL

      ... all right, if we're gonna do this, let's do this, and let's start and see where this relationship goes in the future, right?

    15. JS

      Yeah.

    16. ZL

      It's not just gonna be like, "Good to be on your podcast. Next."

    17. JS

      Yeah.

    18. ZL

      Like, is that... Like, is there a technique to how you do, h- how you, you, you-

    19. JS

      I, I don't think I-

    20. ZL

      ... find people?

    21. JS

      I wouldn't say it's a technique. I think it's more of a intuition. Like, I do believe it's energetic as opposed to, like, "Ask these three questions-

    22. ZL

      Yeah, yeah, yeah

    23. JS

      ... and you'll know." Like, I don't, I don't think I have a, like a, a formula like that, but I feel like you can usually tell by someone's language, body language, and emotional language as to whether you're on the same frequency or vibration. I find over time I've been able to, to sense that. And, and I, and I've also realized where your ego wants to force it with someone because there's personal gain-

    24. ZL

      Ooh, that's self-aware

    25. JS

      ... or there's importance. Yeah.

    26. ZL

      That's big, that's big self-awareness energy right there.

    27. JS

      Right? So, like, yeah, you can tell when it's like, oh, there actually isn't a frequency, but I'm pretending there is or hoping there is or trying to manufacture it-

    28. ZL

      Yeah

    29. JS

      ... because I think this person could do something for me, or I'm useful to them, or I feel significance because I'm being useful to them.

    30. ZL

      Yeah, I think also realizing that you don't wanna be that to someone but also someone's trying to be that to you-

  14. 46:20 – 52:18

    What’s Your Relationship With Your Ego?

    1. JS

      Yeah, and, and we, there's that subtle ego in, like, we wanna be considered funny and this and smart and this and-

    2. ZL

      But how do you manage your ego in a situation like this where you ha- where you... I mean, you said at the very beginning you have the number one health podcast in the world. Congratulations, by the way. Like-

    3. JS

      Thank you, man

    4. ZL

      ... that's, that's a real thing to have a number one of anything, but to have a number one in an area where you're adding so much value and support to people. But the very nature of a number one anything is really, that's just like, you know, bourbon for the ego, right? It's like number one is like-

    5. JS

      Yeah

    6. ZL

      ... by its very nature is connected to an ego experience. Um, how do you continue to build around success but manage... What's your relationship like with your ego in this environment?

    7. JS

      Yeah, it's a, I would say it's a constant conversation on a daily basis between my conscious self and my ego self. I think that it's something I have to be vigilant of on a daily basis because of the world we live in and the, the environment we're in. Just someone that I, I mentor messaged me this morning, and he's kind of having a real moment in his career, and things are going well, and he was saying the same thing to me. He goes, "Jay, I don't think this is healthy for me. Like, I, I'm, I'm worried about my ego." And I was like, "This is amazing, the fact that you're even aware and you're conscious and you're..." Because 99% of the time you have the success, and then it falls apart, and then you think about your ego. And so for me, I, there are a few things that I do. The first thing is that I always look at how I compare to the work I really want to do. So the impact I really wanna make in the world is not just downloads or views or whatever else that, or numbers. It's actually I'm trying to create a journey for everyone that connects with my work from entertainment through to education through to personal enlightenment in how they define that term. And to me, it's like I'm trying to create that journey by building steps that I know from the journey that I've been on, the journey that I'm still on, and the journey that I've learned from the greats, and trying to put those building blocks in place for people. And my goal is, unless I'm helping people walk that journey, the number is, is insignificant.

    8. ZL

      But you, but the, but the beautiful thing is, 'cause by the way, I'm not anti-ego. Like, ego-

    9. JS

      No, no, no, no

    10. ZL

      ... serves an important role. It's-

    11. JS

      No, this is a great conversation

    12. ZL

      ... you know, there's ego and id, and those two things need to be managed in, in, in a way that it-

    13. JS

      Yeah

    14. ZL

      ... with a, with, like I said, a sense of self-awareness and understanding of what is gonna press your buttons, both positive and negative. But what I'm interested in is, like, it's interesting 'cause, 'cause you're building this thing internally from within your own vision, your own in- what inspires you. It's come from this tiny little fire that you're building into this beautiful thing that helps people, but you can't help More people without your ego serving a purpose, a role

    15. JS

      Yes, yes, absolutely. And so I think engaging it and being aware of it are the only two options you have-

    16. ZL

      Yes

    17. JS

      ... because I think that when you try and ignore that, there were probably even times in my life where I tried to suppress the desire to do and make an impact because you think it's ego-

    18. ZL

      Mm

    19. JS

      ... not realizing that then it's just brewing, and now you're envious [laughs] of everyone else.

    20. ZL

      See, that's why the word humility is so interesting to me-

    21. JS

      Yeah

    22. ZL

      ... right? 'Cause we kick around humility all the time like it's a really important positive part of our, of our makeup, and it is. It's a, it, it can be. There's a time to be humble. And there's no universally sort of positive humility and there's no universally negative ego. Complexities cross both of them, but it's interesting, isn't it? Like, you can find yourself, if you deny your ability and what you love and your talent and, and, and your ambition too much, you find yourself in a false state of humility.

    23. JS

      Yes.

    24. ZL

      And you can't help the people-

    25. JS

      Yes

    26. ZL

      ... you wanna help.

    27. JS

      Well said.

    28. ZL

      So it's ultimately turning y- your back on what you should be doing.

    29. JS

      Yeah, and, and to me, ego, when it gets dangerous, is when you feel better or worse than others, and so I feel like there's a difference between doing what you think you're meant to do and doing it well than thinking you do it better. Like, I am friends with so many people in this space who do, who are, who are number one in their fields, but, and, and even in a similar field in a different way. Like, I know a phenomenal set of scientists in this space who are doing incredible health and wellness work-

    30. ZL

      Yeah

  15. 52:18 – 53:56

    Do You Manifest? How Do You Practice Manifestation?

    1. JS

      were playing.

    2. ZL

      Are you a manifestor?

    3. JS

      I would honestly say I've been an accidental, unintentional manifestor.

    4. ZL

      [laughs]

    5. JS

      So I don't believe that I ever set out to say, "Okay, I, I believe in manifestation. I know how it works-

    6. ZL

      Uh-huh

    7. JS

      ... and I'm gonna do it."

    8. ZL

      Uh-huh.

    9. JS

      I don't think I ever had that. I've just had things happen in my life where I can track back when I first visualized it in my mind, and then it came to fruition, but I never-

    10. ZL

      Yeah

    11. JS

      ... intended for that to happen.

    12. ZL

      And so when that happened, did you ever have the intention to try to kind of do it more or master it or anything else? Or were you just like, "I love the curiosity of that. I like to let it happen"?

    13. JS

      I love the curiosity, and I love the magic of it because that also makes me realize that it's beyond me, and I like that-

    14. ZL

      Oh, s-

    15. JS

      ... humility and that-

    16. ZL

      I love that. So, okay

    17. JS

      ... surrender

    18. ZL

      ... so the mystery of it is, is... That's cool.

    19. JS

      That surrender of it that I don't... I love the idea that it's happening, and it's happened in my life so subconsciously-

    20. ZL

      Yeah

    21. JS

      ... that it also makes me recognize that there is more than me to this.

    22. ZL

      I would say I'm, I'm more like you than I am like some of the other people who I know who, you know, are continually searching for that feeling that they can then... And with some success, to be fair.

    23. JS

      Again, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

    24. ZL

      I mean-

    25. JS

      I know people who I consider to manipulate material energy. Like they have that-

    26. ZL

      100%

    27. JS

      ... they have that ability, and I don't... That's just not-

    28. ZL

      Ryan Reynolds. Ryan Reynolds is a master manifestor.

    29. JS

      Yeah?

    30. ZL

      I'm so sorry, but you cannot take Wrexham-

  16. 53:56 – 59:30

    How Do You Manage Ambition And Still Maintain A Balanced Life?

    1. ZL

      you another question?

    2. JS

      Yeah.

    3. ZL

      Is it cool if I ask you a question?

    4. JS

      Of course. This is a real conversation-

    5. ZL

      I-

    6. JS

      ... which I'm loving, so

    7. ZL

      ... I, I wanna, I wanna talk to you about ambition, like what your relationship is with your ambition because you have a big, you have, you've, you've already built something massive, and you want to continue to reach more people. Um, so how do you manage your ambition into something that is balanced with your life?

    8. JS

      I think it's evolved over time. So I've always honestly said that when I first started, I was working 16 to 18-hour days and seven days a week, but I never missed meditating, and that was always my grounding practice. I was like, "I'm gonna meditate, and I'm gonna work my socks off," because I kind of had that moment of, or at least what I've heard when you were saying that about your kids, like I remember the first time I felt the door open, and I was just like, "I never believed this door would ever open. Like, I have to be so grateful and responsible for this."

    9. ZL

      And that was through meditation?

    10. JS

      That was... No, no, no. That was... Oh, no. Spiritually, that had happened. I mean, like externally with building a platform.

    11. ZL

      Got it.

    12. JS

      So like-

    13. ZL

      Got it.

    14. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    15. ZL

      Like when you realize, like, "Wow, I have a shot at-"

    16. JS

      I have an opportunity to do this in a... Like, I was happy and content, and anyone who knows me back then would verify this. Like, I was happy and content- Doing what I do today for the 10 people that showed up every week for 10 years

    17. ZL

      Yeah

    18. JS

      And I was so happy. I didn't feel like, "Oh, there's not enough people," or like, "Oh my God, I'm not..." Like, I just felt grateful and happy that even 10 people would show up, and I loved it. And then at one point I did feel, I was like, "I feel this message matters. The people that are coming are having great success from it. I think it should reach more people, so I should attempt to." And when I attempted and it, and it, and I had that first glimpse, then I was like, "Wow, I'm so grateful and I should be responsible for this, and I shouldn't take this... I should take this as a gift, and I should give my heart and soul to it, not just live off this momentary-

    19. ZL

      Mm

    20. JS

      ... you know, success." So for me, that's... To me, the graft was me expressing my gratitude back to the universe to say, "I see that you've given literal me a shot, and I feel my only way of expressing my thanks and appreciation back to you for this gift is to show you that I'm willing to work for it."

    21. ZL

      To make the most of it.

    22. JS

      Correct. So that was, like, a couple of years where I did that. As soon as I started doing that and things started to grow externally, I started to realize, "All right, this is not sustainable," like, on an energy level.

    23. ZL

      Yeah.

    24. JS

      And so then I cut back. So then I was like, "I'm only gonna work five days a week," so I took my weekends back. I was still working evenings. Now I'm at a point where I've taken my weekends and my evenings back.

    25. ZL

      'Cause that, 'cause that to me is, like, that's, that's the crucial moment where perhaps some, like, maturity and some life and some, some distance between youthful ambition, the desire that I've gotta go and take every opportunity I can versus where you were at that moment in your life really served you.

    26. JS

      Yes.

    27. ZL

      Because, because that, that's the moment when I think it can consume people.

    28. JS

      Yeah.

    29. ZL

      And relationships-

    30. JS

      Yeah

  17. 59:30 – 1:01:26

    You’ll Miss Opportunities If You’re Only Focused On Speed

    1. JS

      Yeah, hard-earned peace. [laughs] Yeah. But, but I, I think it's true. Like, I think also, you know, it's what we're saying about the yes and no. There's also a different time in life for sometimes it's scale, sometimes it's speed, sometimes it's strategy, sometimes it's sincerity, sometimes it's, you know, like, it's... I, I think what you realize is that if you just go speed, speed, speed, speed, speed-

    2. ZL

      Yeah, yeah, yeah

    3. JS

      ... like, that doesn't actually make any sense. Like-

    4. ZL

      Well, you miss your opportunities more than you actually grab them, I think.

    5. JS

      Yeah. You think about, like, being a Formula 1 racer. It's not speed at every turn that helps them master the track.

    6. ZL

      Yeah.

    7. JS

      Speed's a massive part of it, but-

    8. ZL

      Only when you need to go fast. [laughs]

    9. JS

      Only when you need to go fast. Like, round the bend if you just go fast 'cause you're like, "No, no, no, I just gotta beat the other guy," you could potentially turn over and throw the, you know, the, the race away.

    10. ZL

      That's why I love boxing so much. Like, I've just started to, like, like, do boxing training and stuff. It's been-

    11. JS

      My wife boxes

    12. ZL

      ... ah, it's the most fun.

    13. JS

      [laughs]

    14. ZL

      It's the, it's the greatest exercise I've ever done. I've struggled with exercise my whole life. Fits and starts like everybody else, no pun in- well, pun very much intended. Um, but yeah, this is a whole other level. I love it, right? And the reason I love it is because, like, my mom has dementia and, and she's in the latter stages of de- dementia, I feel, and it's, it's, it's been really tough to, to witness, but I've also watched her sort of want to hold onto memories, and the whole cognitive awareness thing has become very present for me. And what I love about boxing is that it's really, it's, it's, it's 100% mind and body, and it's about strategy, and it's about... People just think you just bash stuff. It's so not.

    15. JS

      Yeah.

    16. ZL

      The most tiring thing I do when I'm working out boxing is the inside work where I'm not-

    17. JS

      And the breathing and the-

    18. ZL

      ... I'm not actually punching anything. I'm just trying to push this guy off. Like, that's the most exhausting thing out of any of it.

    19. JS

      Yeah, yeah.

    20. ZL

      Like, the punching the mitts is, like, just rhythm.

    21. JS

      Yeah.

    22. ZL

      That's the sp- driving fast.

    23. JS

      Correct, yeah. And that's what I mean. I think we just live in one mode of, like, speed or, or slow.

    24. ZL

      Yeah.

    25. JS

      We think, we think those are the only two things to play with.

    26. ZL

      Yeah, yeah.

    27. JS

      And when you box or if you drive a car or whatever, maybe you start going, "Oh, wait. There's, there's so many other-"

    28. ZL

      Yeah

    29. JS

      ... "dials to play with here."

    30. ZL

      Yeah, yeah.

  18. 1:01:26 – 1:04:37

    Practicing Healthy Routines

    1. JS

      I'm trying to... You know, I've, I've realized that, and I also realize that- It's the same as a hike. Like, getting up the hill is different to staying at the top and getting down again and going deep into the valley. Like-

    2. ZL

      Yeah

    3. JS

      ... it requires a different skill set. And so I try and, you know, I, I try and live a very disciplined life health-wise in order to be able to be high-performing, and I value all of that, like the high-performance world. Like, I value all the techniques.

    4. ZL

      Do you have cheat days, though? Do you allow yourself a chance to slip out of routine?

    5. JS

      Always. I mean, you have to. Like, this morning was one of those mornings [laughs] as-

    6. ZL

      What'd you do?

    7. JS

      I s- so I was, you know-

    8. ZL

      Well, you just got back off tour, for a start-

    9. JS

      No

    10. ZL

      ... so you're all over the show, right?

    11. JS

      No, no, no, no, I wasn't. That's the thing.

    12. ZL

      Right.

    13. JS

      I, I, I allow myself, like, small windows and then I go back. But, like, this week I haven't missed a single workout, and this morning, I... Last night I told, I told my, my friends that I was gonna work out with today. I go, "Guys, I'm sleeping in tomorrow."

    14. ZL

      I'm burnt.

    15. JS

      "I'm not gonna be there. I'm tired." So I, I woke up an hour and a half later than I usually wake up today, and it was the best thing I ever did, and I loved it. And-

    16. ZL

      Do you sleep well?

    17. JS

      I sleep... Yeah, that's a big thing for me. I actually read you, that's been something you've had to work through, right? Like-

    18. ZL

      Dude, I've never been a-

    19. JS

      Sleep, wake up-

    20. ZL

      I'm not a good sleeper, and I am a good sleeper.

    21. JS

      Now?

    22. ZL

      You know what's crazy? And I was telling a friend of mine who's in a band about this this morning-

    23. JS

      Yeah

    24. ZL

      ... 'cause she was like, "Oh, I'm just trying to kind of come down off tour." And I said, "Listen, man, let me give you a bit of advice, and I don't know if it's gonna work for you, but I'm telling you, like, I read somewhere something ages ago where Rick Rubin-

    25. JS

      Yeah

    26. ZL

      ... said that he goes out every morning when he wakes up and exposes himself to natural light."

    27. JS

      Yes.

    28. ZL

      Like, first thing he does-

    29. JS

      Yes

    30. ZL

      ... is expose himself to natural light. And then I, someone else said it, and someone else said it, and I was like, all right, this is, like, too many things pointing in this direction, so... And I haven't had a good night's sleep in a long time. And so I started going outside, and it was so strange. It was such an alien experience for me-

  19. 1:04:37 – 1:11:15

    Undoing Habits And Practices That Society Built For Us

    1. JS

      So-

    2. ZL

      So we have all this literature and all these, these opportunities, like even this conversation, to be able to just dive into all of this. And s- and there'll be the people who roll their eyes, and they're probably not listening or watching, and there'll be the people who are obs- open and absorbing and ready to sort of try and make positive changes and help others further down the line. But where do you think we're going wrong? Like, if the ancient species were saluting the sun, increasing their ability to be able to manifest good things, understood the power of gratitude, understood the power of rest, understood what they needed in order to maintain that, this is thousands of years ago-

    3. JS

      Mm-hmm

    4. ZL

      ... why do you think we seem to be getting either further away from that or trying to get back to that, but we haven't actually gone on from that?

    5. JS

      Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a big question. And one place I really experienced it beautifully was when I was in Hawaii, and every morning we'd take-

    6. ZL

      Which island?

    7. JS

      We were on the Big Island.

    8. ZL

      Okay.

    9. JS

      So in Kona.

    10. ZL

      Kauai's like-

    11. JS

      I've heard. I need to go

    12. ZL

      ... dude-

    13. JS

      I need to go. Yeah

    14. ZL

      ... I've never ever been to a place where the l- the, the energy, the ley lines, and the oxygen coming up from the ocean-

    15. JS

      I've heard, yeah

    16. ZL

      ... is so intense. It's amazing.

    17. JS

      I need to go next year, and you'll have to give me all the recommendations. But-

    18. ZL

      But no, I've got no recommendations.

    19. JS

      Oh.

    20. ZL

      It's not that kind of place. The beautiful thing is it's a lo- it's just pure local. Like, it's not like a-

    21. JS

      Okay

    22. ZL

      ... go here, go here, go... Just rent a, just get a really awesome little Airbnb near the ocean.

    23. JS

      Yeah.

    24. ZL

      That's my recommendation.

    25. JS

      That's it. Okay, good. All right.

    26. ZL

      And just barefoot it to the coffee store every day.

    27. JS

      I love it.

    28. ZL

      Anyway, sorry, go on.

    29. JS

      Yeah, no, no, no, no. And so I remember when we were in Hawaii, we'd get like a kayak every morning, one of their, I forget the official name of this big, like, canoe, kayak, they have a name for it. We jumped in. We'd go out. They, they'd paid their respects to the sun. They had their own offerings, which I loved learning about. They'd offer it to the water. Like, so what I find out where we've gone wrong is that we've unlearned and reconditioned to a new way of working so hard and so strong and for so long that undoing that and resetting our habits to be healthy for us is the biggest challenge. So discipline is 99% of the challenge. And I think the problem is that because if you think about school, which was the only thing that had the opportunity to discipline us, and parenting, those are probably the only two things that you have as a kid-

    30. ZL

      Certainly your introduction to it all

  20. 1:11:15 – 1:12:41

    What Is The Difference Between Working And Working Hard?

    1. JS

      therapy. That's cool.

    2. ZL

      But I was working through it.

    3. JS

      Yeah.

    4. ZL

      Like, working around the clock because, again, it's a great distraction, isn't it? You know, getting up and going to work is a great way to spend your time avoiding things that you don't really want to have to deal with, and it's also more productive. So the f- harder you work, the more you achieve. The more you achieve, the more you tell yourself you're okay. The more you tell yourself you're okay not dealing with-

    5. JS

      [laughs] Absolutely.

    6. ZL

      So it's like, okay, you know, and then you, you know-

    7. JS

      And the oppo- the opposite's also true, which is why back to your argument of balance, like, the opposite's also true, where you, if you're too idle and there's no direction and there's no pursuit and there's no work and-

    8. ZL

      Oh, yeah, for sure

    9. JS

      ... it just, uh, yeah.

    10. ZL

      There's, there's an infinite amount of ways to do it.

    11. JS

      Yeah.

    12. ZL

      I'm just, that's how I did it.

    13. JS

      Yeah.

    14. ZL

      And, um, and you know, there's a difference between working hard and, and, or working and working hard, right? Like, like, for me, it's like I love to work and I love to work hard, but I don't have to work hard to be working well, right? I can, I can, I can do it in a way that is, like, you know, efficient and good for my balance, excuse me, good for my balance. My decision-making got better. My ability to delegate got better. I became less stressed out about the things that I didn't have any, uh, reason and/or, um, right to be stressed out about. I stopped feeling a need to respond to every single email and every single thing, and I started to trust the process. And I don't know, you'd have to ask my colleagues, but I feel like I'm happier and better at what I do.

    15. JS

      Mm.

    16. ZL

      So yeah, I'm a, I'm a big believer in, in just because you're putting the hours in doesn't mean you're actually getting the most out of it.

    17. JS

      Absolutely. Absolutely.

  21. 1:12:41 – 1:18:10

    The Most Inspiring Conversations Are With People Who Have No Intention To Sell

    1. JS

      You've sat with so many of the, you know, most iconic artists of our time and, and this generation, and, you know, you, you're a brilliant interviewer. You ask awesome questions.

    2. ZL

      Thank you.

    3. JS

      You listen so effectively. Like, it's, it's fun to watch, like, genuinely fun to watch. Who do you feel was, like, wise beyond their years or, or, like, an old soul? But because most of them are young. Like, a lot of, a lot of them are very young. Who did you find was kind of like-

    4. ZL

      You know, I find the conversations that leave me most inspired and feeling like something in my life has changed and I've, I've learned something new tend to come from the people who reached a point in their life where they're not trying to sell something anymore. And They don't have to do this. It's there's some value in the conversation and perhaps they're looking for a learning themselves. The truth is, more often than not, I find elements of that in everybody because I'm not trying to squeeze juice out of the lemon.

    5. JS

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    6. ZL

      I'm genuinely not trying to sell anything at this point in my life. I love music, so it's easy for me to talk about it and to say it's great and to back and forth about it, but I don't feel any need and I don't feel there's any requirement for me at this point in my life to try to sell anything. When I go into the conversation, and I thought I was gonna ask you a question, because no one immediately sprang to mind because I think I'm, I'm not, I'm not existing in a hierarchy anymore.

    7. JS

      Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a beautiful answer.

    8. ZL

      I'm not, I'm not thinking like this person surprised me or this person was not charming or this person was wise beyond their years. If you'd asked me that five years ago, I could have given you an answer like that.

    9. JS

      That's a beautiful answer. I love that.

    10. ZL

      But I'm trying to go into every conversation, whether it's Lil Yachty or Neil Young or Billie Eilish or, you know, whatever. I'm just trying to go into a conversation from a position just like us of what is the most in- interesting and human experience that I can have.

    11. JS

      Mm.

    12. ZL

      And I remove as much of the sell as I can, and I try to get into a place with people where like I don't really have questions anymore and I don't really go in with a hier- with a, with a, with a framework anymore. I just try to feel the music, retain how it makes me feel and just get to that, as much of that feeling as I can in the conversation.

    13. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    14. ZL

      And so everyone is surprising and everyone catches me off guard with their observations because I'm not going in with any prior observations or any kind of premeditated framework.

    15. JS

      Yeah.

    16. ZL

      I'm not coming in going, "I think I know what you're like."

    17. JS

      Yeah.

    18. ZL

      And I will say that the one only time I've ever had a, a proper like long form conversation with Justin Bieber change, that's what changed it for me because I thought I was gonna get a great conversation focused on an album that served the purpose that the label and the management and the artist wanted it to serve and serve the purpose that Apple Music wanted it to serve and I would get something out of it too. And that conversation became something very different very quickly and I realized that he wasn't interested really in selling anything either on that day. And that was the moment that I learned how to listen and stopped trying to control the narrative and gave myself the, the space to go with it and not panic.

    19. JS

      Mm-hmm.

    20. ZL

      It's just a moment. It's just people.

    21. JS

      Yeah.

    22. ZL

      Stay present, listen, observe and try and figure it out. So from that point forward, everybody that I've spoken to really I get there with everyone in some way, shape or form.

    23. JS

      Yeah. Yeah. That's-

    24. ZL

      If that, if that makes sense

    25. JS

      ... makes so much sense. Makes beyond sense. I love it.

    26. ZL

      I, every, every time I'd have a conversation with anyone before that I would come in with so many different-

    27. JS

      [laughs]

    28. ZL

      ... metrics of, you know-

    29. JS

      Yeah

    30. ZL

      ... questions and orders and this and that and expectations and whatnot and, you know, if, if you ever get a chance to sit, if you haven't already, opposite Neil Young, you cannot go into it with that. He has no interest. It's like this is all that matters. [laughs] And if you think you're gonna be able to sort of carve out some shape with him, then he's just gonna be like, "Look man, like it's not what I'm here for. I'm not interested in it."

  22. 1:18:10 – 1:21:40

    Zane Lowe on Final Five

    1. JS

      been such a special honest open conversation. I've loved every bit of it and uh-

    2. ZL

      Same

    3. JS

      ... we end every On Purpose interview with a fast five. So these are questions we do ask everyone.

    4. ZL

      Okay.

    5. JS

      And every question has to be answered with one word to one sentence maximum.

    6. ZL

      Okay.

    7. JS

      So it's short answers. Uh, so Zane Lowe these are your fast five. The first question is-

    8. ZL

      Do they change every time?

    9. JS

      No.

    10. ZL

      Okay.

    11. JS

      They stay, they st- four out of five stay exactly the same.

    12. ZL

      Okay. Hit me.

    13. JS

      Okay. So the first question which we've asked everyone who's ever been on the show is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

    14. ZL

      Uh, be yourself 'cause everyone else is taken.

    15. JS

      Nice. Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

    16. ZL

      Eat that, it's not that hot.

    17. JS

      [laughs] All right. Uh, question number three-

    18. ZL

      Hot ones at me.

    19. JS

      Oh yeah.

    20. ZL

      Seriously hot ones call me.

    21. JS

      [laughs]

    22. ZL

      My kids won't ever respect me until I'm on that show.

    23. JS

      I... [laughs] I love that. Uh, question number three, uh, what is the one thing that if you'd want your children to remember every day what would it be?

    24. ZL

      You are loved and you can love.

    25. JS

      Love that. Question number four, what's something you're trying to unlearn right now?

    26. ZL

      That I don't have to wash my hands every time I touch a surface and I don't have to check the taps. I'm always trying to unlearn my OCD compulsions.

    27. JS

      How does that affect life? What is that?

    28. ZL

      It's bec- been my life for so long that, um, I think the most frustrating thing is I'm just I'm, I'm used to it. That's what frustrates me the most. If I ever stop and take a step back and realize and actually try to have a step back for myself and realize what I'm doing and what it must look like, not that I'm ashamed of it-

    29. JS

      Mm-hmm

    30. ZL

      ... or that I worry about what other people think of it, just for my own sense of awareness I get very frustrated and really try to tell myself, like, "If you don't do this routine, the world is not gonna end."

Episode duration: 1:21:40

In the uListen app, the transcript lights up word by word as you listen. Get uListen

Transcript of episode fz5Ub-S9H08

Get more out of YouTube videos.

Read along on your phone, search it beside the video, or ask your favorite AI app what was said.

iOSAndroidClaudeChatGPTChrome