Big Bang Theory Actor ON How To Stop Obsessing About The Future And Programming Your Mind For Peace

Kunal Nayyar 0:00 Well, I think also when you're younger, the impr- the attachments or the identifications to the things around you aren't so attached yet. It, uh, those things you predominantly get attached to those kinds of things later on in your life, when you become really i- your idea of yourself is very strong. So that's when you become very self-aware. [upbeat music]

Jay Shetty 0:24 Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the best place in the world to learn, listen, and grow every single week. Thanks to each and every one of you that tune in, that download the episodes, and that connect, and you know that my promise to you is to try and find guests that are going to help you find awakening, find growth, learn new techniques, learn new skills, and even open your minds up to a new way of living, and today's guest is going to do just that. He's a very, very dear friend, uh, someone who's... I've had so many great offline conversations with him that I've been probing him to say, "Let's, let's record this and share it with the world." So today's guest is none other than Kunal Nayyar, best known for his incredible work as Rajesh on television's number one longest running multi-camera comedy, The Big Bang Theory. The series has been nominated for multiple Emmy, Golden Globe, SAG, Critic Choice Awards, and won the People's Choice Award for favorite network TV comedy three years in a row. In 2015, Kunal made his New York theater debut in The Spoils. He starred in the off-Broadway play alongside Jesse Eisenberg, who also wrote the play. Today, I'm excited to talk about his career as an actor and also his philosophy on life. Kunal, thank you for doing this, man.

Kunal Nayyar 1:39 That's a rousing, rousing introduction. Um, wow.

Jay Shetty 1:42 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 1:43 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:43 It's, it's all honest, it's all true.

Kunal Nayyar 1:44 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:45 And, and the best thing about this is Kunal's had one of the busiest weeks. He's flying off to London tonight, and he still found time to do this. You're a real friend, Kunal.

Kunal Nayyar 1:53 No, thank you. I'm so glad. Thanks for having me. I'm a huge fan of everything that you're doing, so anything I can do to be a part of it.

Jay Shetty 1:59 Thank you, man. And, and the way we met is so, so fun because I remember there were just so many random touch points. So we have a lot of mutual friends-

Kunal Nayyar 2:06 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 2:06 ... who'd mentioned you to me and said, "Oh, you two would really get along. You could talk, you could talk for hours."

Kunal Nayyar 2:10 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 2:10 And then the crazy thing is I was at a Lakers game with my wife-

Kunal Nayyar 2:13 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 2:13 ... and she sees you and she's like, "Oh, look, that's Kunal from Big Bang Theory." And, and you were far away, so we didn't, we didn't get to say hello that day. And then literally the week after we were talking.

Kunal Nayyar 2:22 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:22 And it was like this beautiful series of events-

Kunal Nayyar 2:25 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 2:25 ... where you're just like the universe is trying to bring you closer to someone. That's how I felt anyway.

Kunal Nayyar 2:29 No, absolutely. I call it the six degrees of separation, uh, from being Indian. That's what happens.

Jay Shetty 2:35 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 2:36 You know?

Jay Shetty 2:36 That's what it is. That's what it is.

Kunal Nayyar 2:37 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:37 But, uh, let's, let's start with the Indian question, 'cause I know you have a passion for this. When, when's the last time you played cricket?

Kunal Nayyar 2:42 Oh, um, this time I was home... After Big Bang, I've been home four times since May. This time I was home, we bought a cricket bat, and in the driveway my cousin and I were playing, and it was such a wonderful feeling, 'cause it brings back all the memories. Um, I watch cricket incessantly too, so I'm a, I'm a huge fan.

Jay Shetty 3:00 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 3:00 I know you're a Premier League guy.

Jay Shetty 3:02 Yeah, I'm a Premier League guy.

Kunal Nayyar 3:03 But I'm sorry. I don't-

Jay Shetty 3:03 Yeah, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 3:03 Yeah, exactly.

Jay Shetty 3:03 I'm a Premier League guy. But no, no, it's always, it's always fascinating to hear about people's interest. And when you first moved to the US, you worked as a university housekeeper. [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 3:11 Yeah. I was in the housekeeping department. I didn't really know what I was getting myself into, but, uh, the, the minimum wage in Oregon was, uh, slightly higher than most other states, so it was a nice amount of money for me. Um, and I just did it, you know? I didn't think too much about it. It wasn't such a big deal to me. Um, so I did anything that was required of me.

Jay Shetty 3:30 Tell me some of the things that you had to do. Any fun stories, any? [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 3:32 I mean, cleaning out, you know, the, the dormitories is not a... The, the big trash compactor and you pull it out, and the things you see people throw away, it's quite disgusting. Um-

Jay Shetty 3:42 Especially in a university. That's like the worst time.

Kunal Nayyar 3:44 That's a-

Jay Shetty 3:44 It's tough

Kunal Nayyar 3:44 ... and also, uh, cleaning out, uh, professors who had passed away, uh, cleaning out their offices. That was a very interesting experience. But the most fun I ever had was on s- what was it on? I think Monday even- Monday afternoons we had to wash the church windows, and I would get to use the power washer.

Jay Shetty 4:01 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 4:02 And that was like, for me, the most incredible experience ever. You know, I was like, uh, Arnold Schwarzenegger, like, shooting down, you know?

Jay Shetty 4:08 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 4:09 And it was, it was, it was [laughs] really... It was fun. I, I got fired unfortunately because... Well, I didn't get fired, but I was, got released because w- I forgot to put the lorry, the little lorries that we drive, in park, and it rolled off the quad into the garden where all the students were, like, [laughs] studying and stuff.

Jay Shetty 4:27 Oh. [laughs] Did anyone get hurt?

Kunal Nayyar 4:28 No one got hurt, thank God.

Jay Shetty 4:29 Okay.

Kunal Nayyar 4:29 And then my boss, who's this guy named Greg, I'll never forget, he had this tongue like a snake and he drove, like, old vintage cars. He was the coolest guy I ever knew. He took the fall for me. It was really sweet.

Jay Shetty 4:38 Wow.

Kunal Nayyar 4:39 Yeah, he was the sweetest guy ever.

Jay Shetty 4:40 Why did he do that?

Kunal Nayyar 4:41 He's just a nice guy and he liked me.

Jay Shetty 4:43 Are you still in touch with him?

Kunal Nayyar 4:44 No.

Jay Shetty 4:44 Okay, we have to get this to him.

Kunal Nayyar 4:46 Yeah, exactly.

Jay Shetty 4:46 Greg?

Kunal Nayyar 4:47 Greg.

Jay Shetty 4:47 Greg, if you're watching this somehow-

Kunal Nayyar 4:49 Thank you

Jay Shetty 4:49 ... I wanna get this video to you because-

Kunal Nayyar 4:50 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 4:51 ... this is special. You, you helped Kunal not have, like, a criminal record or I don't know-

Kunal Nayyar 4:54 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 4:54 ... what would've come with that. Uh, but no, that's amazing. And the reason why I wanna go back to the beginning and everything for you is because obviously you grew up in Delhi.

Kunal Nayyar 5:01 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 5:02 Right? And what was life like growing up in Delhi for you personally? Like, what were the experiences there that you feel formed who you are today, or maybe parts of you that you wanted to progress and change as well?

Kunal Nayyar 5:14 Yeah, that's a great question. The beauty of growing up in India for me was, uh, the, the familial, the idea of family is beyond just four people or five people. You know, you don't grow up just with your parents. You grow up with your cousins, you grow up with your cousins' parents, aunts, uncles, uh, friends, friends' parents. The community around you is so large. Every night someone is over at the house eating with you or at, you know, f- 8:00 PM, someone will knock on the door. "Oh, there, come on, come on in. What do you got in the fridge?" You know, you eat. So, uh, it teaches you that it really, you, you feel so full. You s- feel so emotionally full, uh, which is a lovely thing. And also not just, uh, socially, but also grief. When people die, everyone shows up, you know? So you get to experience death with people. We were never shielded away from death at a young age. Anyone passed away, you went to the home. The first thing, whatever you were doing, even if you're in school, you just leave school and you show up to people's homes and there's a, you know, there's a dead body there, and you, you experience that firsthand and how a community is built around that. And, um- And I miss that. Even to this day, living in America for almost 20 years, I miss that, you know, sometimes if I wanna have a meal with someone, it takes two weeks to schedule it. And I understand everyone's busy, but I miss that sort of everyone on top of each other all the time-

Jay Shetty 6:34 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 6:34 ... kind of love, because it's very familiar to me.

Jay Shetty 6:37 Yeah, absolutely. No, I, I know you've... I can relate to that in a smaller way, growing up in London, but-

Kunal Nayyar 6:42 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 6:42 ... in an Indian background as well.

Kunal Nayyar 6:44 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 6:44 Families, family's definitely a bigger part of that. And since we moved to the US, which has only been three and a half years, but it's the same. But we're trying to build our, our little family-

Kunal Nayyar 6:53 Yes, of course

Jay Shetty 6:53 ... uh, with friends, and so I think we have to somehow bring it over here-

Kunal Nayyar 6:56 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 6:56 ... for sure. But tell me about that. That's really interesting what you said there, because I think it's such a powerful point that's often missed, that in that Eastern society, you're so used to seeing death-

Kunal Nayyar 7:06 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 7:07 ... which is a really powerful point you m- made. What was it about that that you feel was powerful for you personally? Like, what about that has less- left such a lasting impression? When I ask, "What did you learn from India?" That's one of the first things you remember.

Kunal Nayyar 7:19 I don't think that you... You don't think about it at the time.

Jay Shetty 7:23 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 7:24 You just do it. You know, it's not like, "Oh, this is something that I have to do," or... It just becomes part of your life. So you're not sitting there saying, "This is so profound. There's a dead body in front of me." You know? No, it's not like that. It's just the simplicity of the way the culture works. You just show up in times of need. And it's... What I find sometimes in society right now, what's happening, is we're really sterilizing all experiences in life. You shake someone's hand, you gotta use antibacterial soap. If someone coughs, you look at them like they're sick, you know? This kind of a thing is really taking away the humanity from us, as it is, and the internet and social media and all these things are wonderful tools, but it also is sometimes taking away the humanity from us. And I think now when I look back, I think the profound impact it had on me, that it was, it was messy, and it was full, and it wasn't sterile and empty, you know? And I think that's maybe what- that's why now when I look back, it feels profound. But at the moment, you're just like, "Wow, that woman is wailing way too loud," and, you know, I, I gotta get to the badminton court at 4:00 PM.

Jay Shetty 8:33 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 8:33 I have to be [laughs] like-

Jay Shetty 8:34 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 8:34 ... you're just a child. You're not, you're not so self-aware at the time, you know?

Jay Shetty 8:38 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 8:38 It just becomes part of your life.

Jay Shetty 8:39 Yeah, and I think that's a really good point. I think most of our lives are processed in hindsight.

Kunal Nayyar 8:44 Always.

Jay Shetty 8:44 Like, most experiences are more powerful when we look back on them and we reflect, and that's why if we don't look back and reflect, we often miss out.

Kunal Nayyar 8:52 Yes.

Jay Shetty 8:52 Because it's quite hard, especially as a kid, to appreciate or introspect or reflect on any present moment that you're in. Like you're saying, you wanna run to the badminton court or-

Kunal Nayyar 9:01 Yeah, well, I think also when you're younger, the impr- the attachments or the identifications to the things around you aren't so attached yet.

Jay Shetty 9:09 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 9:10 It, uh, those things, you predominantly get attached to those kinds of things later on in your life, when you become really, i- your idea of yourself is very strong. So that's when you become very self-aware, you know? But when you're young, you're just... That's the way you should be, actually. You should not be attached to anything, and you should go with whatever the universe is giving you.

Jay Shetty 9:27 Yeah. And you always wanted to be an actor? That was always the plan?

Kunal Nayyar 9:30 I, I was always a ham. That's what it was.

Jay Shetty 9:32 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 9:32 I mean, I was always [laughs] just doing anything to be in front of the audience.

Jay Shetty 9:36 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 9:36 Um, no, I don't know. You know, I think when I was, like, probably 19, I was in college, I really enjoyed acting. I really enjoyed the... There was a s- something about being an actor is, you know, you're trying to find the truth in, in, in the moment. That's really what... That's why people get addicted to acting, in my opinion, is because it really forces you to dive within and find the truth in a moment. And once you experience truth or you touch truth for the first time, it, it's an experience that, uh, I don't know. It, it's very addicting. You want to find it all the time, and there... You can't find it all the time. There are takes when you are not [laughs] present and there are takes when you are present. But once you experience it, once you truly are saying these words that you know you've learnt, they're coming out of your mouth but they're coming out of your mouth like the first time. And this person who's been rehearsing with you for, like, you know, a few months, is saying these words, and you know they're coming out of their mouth, you know what's gonna come, but it's like it's happening for the first time. That is probably how you would define a spiritual awakening almost, you know? If y- That's what happens, 'cause you can recreate that on stage sometimes.

Jay Shetty 10:44 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 10:44 And that's what happened to me on stage, and I was like, "Oh, this is it. This is... I have to, I have to have this in my life." And that was it for me, you know?

Jay Shetty 10:51 Yeah. And so whenever you're acting, you're always trying to find that truth, find that moment where you can experience this again.

Kunal Nayyar 10:56 You're always just trying to find the moment where you're absolutely present, and you're speaking and you're listening. You know, like this.

Jay Shetty 11:02 What a good skill. [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 11:04 [laughs] Yeah.

Jay Shetty 11:05 What an amazing skill for everything else in life.

Kunal Nayyar 11:07 Well, you know, that's the hard thing about being an actor, though, too, is that you ex- you have this incredible, intense experience, and then you have to go back to your life.

Jay Shetty 11:15 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 11:16 You finish acting on set, and then you show back up at work. I mean, show back at home, and how do you balance the two?

Jay Shetty 11:24 Tell me about that first experience of having this incredible experience on set and then actually having to walk back into your home.

Kunal Nayyar 11:32 I was doing a thing that I didn't realize until later where I wouldn't go home right after.

Jay Shetty 11:38 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 11:39 I would always go out and have a drink. I would always go out and have a whiskey or a martini or hang out with someone. Sometimes if no one was even around, I would just go up to the bar myself, um, to wind down or whatever it was. But I realize now in hindsight that there are much healthier ways to do that. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 11:59 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 11:59 And I think it's hard. I think it's hard to experience something so profound every evening or every moment, and then come back and try to re-install yourself into the reality of everyday existence. I think that's why so many artists take to drugs or alcohol or other forms of staying high. 'Cause you experience this incredible high-

Jay Shetty 12:20 Mm

Kunal Nayyar 12:22 You, like, have to come home and, "How was your day?" I mean, how do I explain what my day was? It was an infinite experience into the cosmos [laughs] of reality. I mean, how do I talk about that, you know?

Jay Shetty 12:32 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 12:33 So at that time, I was escaping. Um, so I was not doing it in a very healthy way, and I seem to have, I think, found-

Jay Shetty 12:40 Yeah, absolutely, yeah. That's so, that's so profound because we, we forget that, and I think not everyone sees that. Like, not everyone knows someone who is that much in the public eye.

Kunal Nayyar 12:50 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 12:51 If you... And, and when you think about certain stars who become famous at 12, 13 years old, 15 years old, and they're performing to audiences of, like, 80,000, 100,000 people at that age, like, that's an incredible rush of adrenaline and-

Kunal Nayyar 13:05 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 13:05 ... you know, the, the, the chemical imbalance of that is just insane. And then to go back to normality-

Kunal Nayyar 13:12 Yes

Jay Shetty 13:12 ... it, it's... And, and it's the same for you, going from set to that. It sounds like one of the toughest things to do, and it's... Sometimes it's hard to empathize with for people because they're like-

Kunal Nayyar 13:20 Obviously, 'cause-

Jay Shetty 13:20 ... "Oh, well, you have it all." Like, you know, "It's amazing"

Kunal Nayyar 13:22 ... you have money. That's the thing.

Jay Shetty 13:23 Yeah, that's, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 13:23 The, the number one thing is if you, if you talk about something like this, someone says, "Oh, uh, oh, did your, you know, did your paycheck not cash this week?"

Jay Shetty 13:31 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 13:32 That's the standard answer.

Jay Shetty 13:33 Right.

Kunal Nayyar 13:34 Um, which is also understandable, yeah. I mean, what am I complaining about when obviously all the comforts of my life have been taken care of?

Jay Shetty 13:40 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 13:42 So.

Jay Shetty 13:42 But let's, let's dive into that transition because I know we've spoken about that before.

Kunal Nayyar 13:46 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 13:46 And the Kunal that I know and have met, uh, you know, whenever we've spoken, we have really evolved deep, meaningful conversations where we're both exploring, and I absolutely love them. But you also told me of a time when, obviously, what you're mentioning now, like alcohol, self-medicating, and that. Tell me about that transformation because I think that that's really important to people because no matter what financial situation people are in, no matter what status people are in, everyone goes through getting addictions, bad habits, and getting lost. Like, there's always that option in life, and everyone's experienced that.

Kunal Nayyar 14:17 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 14:17 Tell us about that transformation and how you were able to, to look for that gap and free yourself from that jail that you talk about, like you talk about finding keys.

Kunal Nayyar 14:25 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:25 Tell me about that experience of, like, releasing yourself from that jail.

Kunal Nayyar 14:30 Um, well, first of all, I'm so grateful that it happened because I never would have come home to myself because ultimately what I was doing was just running away from myself. I began to build a facade that I began to believe in, you know? I began to believe a personality into reality, that I have to be a certain way. I mean, I was young. I was at grad school. I was on this show. I was making money. Um, and I thought I had to be a certain way, and I'm very lucky that I have a family that supports me and loves me and whom I can talk to. But it got out of hand before I knew it was out of hand, and I began to feel anxiety, which I had never experienced in my life as a child or as a youngster. And I didn't know what it was, but I was feeling slightly uncomfortable. And so when I did, I would drink. "Oh, I'm kind of feeling weird. Let me just have a drink, have a great time." And that went on and on and on, and it's not like I ever drank during the day or anything, but I couldn't wait for the evening to come so I could take the edge off. And that one drink turned into five or six, and that anxiety never went away. In fact, the further I tried to push it away, the more it rose. And then it, I was driving on the highway, and I was having panic attacks, and I would be in a elevator in a tall building, and I would be having panic attacks, you know? And I was... It was bad. And I remember going home to India and talking to my parents and saying, "I'm in, I'm, I'm, something's wrong with me." And yet I was very functionable during the day. No one could tell. Obviously, I was working, and that was most important thing to me was working, but I was not in a good place, and I was doing things and putting myself in situations which I shouldn't have been doing. Um, but all to run away from myself, and I didn't know that at the time. And I was given a pill to take in case I had another panic attack from someone. And I remember I was feeling panic on the 17th floor of a building, and I'm looking at this pill, and I'm about to put it in my mouth, and a voice comes and says, "Before you run away from yourself, I want you to experience yourself." Something like this voice came, and I threw it away. And I said, "Even if I experience my own death in this moment, I just want to experience it." And then that, from that day on, I said, "No more running. If, even if I'm feeling anxious, no more running from it. Even if I'm feeling panic, no more running from it," you know?

Jay Shetty 16:59 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 16:59 "No more running."

Jay Shetty 17:01 And that takes a lot of courage.

Kunal Nayyar 17:03 It, I don't think it was courageous.

Jay Shetty 17:05 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 17:05 I think my house was on fire, and there was nowhere else to go. You know? It didn't, doesn't, I don't think of it as courage. I think of it as everything burnt down. I mean, there was nowhere-

Jay Shetty 17:18 You had no other choice

Kunal Nayyar 17:18 ... there was no other choice.

Jay Shetty 17:19 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 17:19 You know? There was no o- there was no more running, you see? There was no more running. I had to look within. What is this anxiety about? What is this panic about? What is it that I'm so afraid of? What is it? Why do I feel so separate from everything that is happening here? Why are there two or three or four or five or six inside? What is this? But it was so beautiful because it was the beginning of the end.

Jay Shetty 17:48 And so often that's what it is, is it takes that... I was describing to someone yesterday, it was like, you know, when, when two people are boxing, there's a lot of dancing. There's a lot of movement. But then when one boxer gets the other boxer in a corner, then that boxer really has to figure out their way. It's like when you're pushed into that corner, now you can't just dance and prance about and run away from it like you're saying. You have to figure out what your strategy is and how you're gonna get close to that and figure out that person because now you're penned up in that corner, and you're stuck. And I feel like sometimes life has to Fortunately or unfortunate- some people say unfortunate, I say fortunately, sometimes life just has to put us in a corner where we stop running. And you can't run, like you're saying, you've run out of options. Instead of running, you run out of options. And, and then you have to look within. But I think so many of us struggle to do that because we struggle to know what the first step is to look within.

Kunal Nayyar 18:36 Yes.

Jay Shetty 18:36 And that's why we run. Sometimes we run not only to get away, but because we don't even know where to start.

Kunal Nayyar 18:41 Absolutely.

Jay Shetty 18:41 Where... How did you figure out where to start for you personally, or what was it that really helped you in that moment? Because I love what you're saying, by the way. This is really-

Kunal Nayyar 18:48 No, but you're right. I think there is that... There's an overwhelming feeling within us that we need to figure it out right away.

Jay Shetty 18:57 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 18:58 And because of that-

Jay Shetty 18:59 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 18:59 ... we want three steps to give us awakening or enlightenment-

Jay Shetty 19:03 [laughs] Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 19:03 ... or whatever it is that people are searching for, you know? But I've been thinking lately that it's... I don't think that awakening or enlightenment or spirituality is for everyone either, because you have to give up your opinions about the world. You have to give up your ideas of the world. You have to give up your ideas of who you are and how you view the world to truly be free, to truly be free. People want to be more loving and more confident and more positive and more peaceful, yet they're not willing to exchange the one thing that is in the way, which is their idea of themselves. So how do you start, right? How do you start [laughs] breaking down the idea of yourself? You don't. You just look and say, "Oh, am I doing this out of just a behavioral pattern that I've been doing for whatever amount of years, or am I doing this from a place of truth or reality?" You know? "Is this what is actually happening in this moment, or is it only happening because of my perception of it?" That's really where you start, is to become aware of yourself, and it's actually very simple. But because we then get indoctrined by 10 steps to do this, or 17 steps to do this, or 105 steps to do this, it's the same thing that people are doing. They're just using steps to, again, run away from what it is. Ultimately, if you wanna be free, you have to come back and have the conversation with the one that is in the way, and that's here. I am in the way of my own freedom because I believe this one to be who I am.

Jay Shetty 20:53 Mm-hmm.

Kunal Nayyar 20:54 And to truly find that one who you are, you have to lift the veil of that and see what's underneath, and that's the hardest thing.

Jay Shetty 21:02 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 21:03 It's not where do I start, it's are you willing to put your opinions about the world and about yourself aside? And that's the thing about awakening and enlightenment and all the things that people want. No one gets to be excluded from your love once you're enlightened. You can't be enlightened and kind of not enlightened.

Jay Shetty 21:23 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 21:23 Okay? You can't have faith and not kind of have faith. You either have faith or you don't have faith.

Jay Shetty 21:30 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 21:31 You either are in this moment or you're not in this moment.

Jay Shetty 21:35 Mm-hmm.

Kunal Nayyar 21:37 And that's the rub.

Jay Shetty 21:38 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 21:39 That's why it is hard for people, because they... The reason, say, "I don't know where to start. I don't know where to look in" this I that's talking is the one that doesn't want to look at itself because it's skirting its own death in a way. 'Cause once it's caught, it's over. That's the thing. Once you actually catch the lie inside, it's over. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 22:00 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 22:00 You know?

Jay Shetty 22:01 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 22:02 But that's where you start. You just start becoming self-aware. "Wait. Oh, I've always thought it's like this. Oh, wait, it's not like that. Oh, okay. Cool. Now I'm free. I'm a little freer now," you know? You begin to wear your personality a little lighter.

Jay Shetty 22:14 Yeah. Dude, that is so well articulated, man. I love that.

Kunal Nayyar 22:17 Oh.

Jay Shetty 22:18 Literally everything you just said right now is just so well explained, because I think so often these topics can get quite heady, and we've talked about that before.

Kunal Nayyar 22:26 Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 22:26 But you've really grounded it. And when I'm listening to you, it sounds like, it sounds like when you figure out how a magician does a magic trick.

Kunal Nayyar 22:32 Yes. Oh, that's lovely.

Jay Shetty 22:32 Right? Like once, once you've figured it out-

Kunal Nayyar 22:34 Yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 22:34 ... it's like, it's not... You're like, "Oh. Oh, I get it now."

Kunal Nayyar 22:37 Oh, yeah.

Jay Shetty 22:37 "Like, it totally makes sense." But when they, when you don't know how it's done-

Kunal Nayyar 22:40 Yeah

Jay Shetty 22:40 ... like, when you don't know how they picked that exact card that was yours, you're like, "Whoa!" Like, and it's the same with yourself. Like, once you figure out the trick-

Kunal Nayyar 22:49 Yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 22:50 ... th- that the mind is playing, or like you said, the perception you've built up of who you are is playing, all of these are just tricks. And when you start to look beneath the tricks-

Kunal Nayyar 22:58 Yeah

Jay Shetty 22:58 ... you, you start seeing actually it's not. You, you feel free, like-

Kunal Nayyar 23:02 But that's, but that's why medi- that's why meditation is very important. I've, I don't think that meditation is the only thing that's the important thing in all of this.

Jay Shetty 23:10 Right.

Kunal Nayyar 23:10 But it is important because it stills your mind. It gives you quiet.

Jay Shetty 23:14 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 23:14 When your mind is very noisy, it's very hard to look through the layers. It's very important to, even if you don't meditate, maybe it's just sitting in the car with no music, whatever it is, finding time to be still is very, very important.

Jay Shetty 23:26 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 23:26 Because through the stillness you can see, and in the storm it's very difficult to see.

Jay Shetty 23:32 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 23:32 You know? And you're right. You're already the peace that you're seeking. That's the truth about life. You are already that which you seek. It was Saint Francis of Assisi said, right? "What you're searching for, what you're looking for is already where you're looking from." You're already home. You just keep running in circles trying to find the home.

Jay Shetty 23:56 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 23:56 But the one trying to find the home is the one you have to give up.

Jay Shetty 24:00 Yes.

Kunal Nayyar 24:00 This is the paradox of life. It's... And it's beautiful. And it, you're right, it is simple. But that's not the end either, because-

Jay Shetty 24:07 No. [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 24:08 ... even after you awaken, there's still a journey, and that's the point of all of this, is stop trying to find the secret elixir of life, 'cause even when you do find it, you'll realize it's unknown.

Jay Shetty 24:18 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 24:20 So just give up and just enjoy. Enjoy, [laughs] I mean, enjoy the fruits of what it is that you have here.

Jay Shetty 24:26 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 24:26 You know? Because even when you're enjoying, you're still like, "Well, I'm enjoying, but I shouldn't be enjoying 'cause I should be working harder." And why work harder? I'm sorry, but, like, [laughs] just be peaceful.

Jay Shetty 24:35 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 24:35 Why work harder? It's all self-made. Goals are lovely to have, but the more goals you have, when you achieve them, then you want more goals, then you want more goals, and then you want more goals. You're trying to fulfill an ego that'll never be filled. Live a simple life. Be peaceful. Be happy. I- what more, I mean, what more?

Jay Shetty 24:53 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 24:55 Because all the things you want to achieve are, you want to achieve because it's gonna make you happy. Just be happy now. It's really simple.

Jay Shetty 25:02 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 25:03 I love it. It's awesome. My, I, I wanna dive into that now with you because I think simplicity is such an interesting concept, and when I lived as a monk, both our internal and external lives were simple-

Kunal Nayyar 25:14 Yeah

Jay Shetty 25:14 ... and simplified, I would say.

Kunal Nayyar 25:15 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 25:15 Not even simple, simplified.

Kunal Nayyar 25:17 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 25:17 You eat what you're given. You don't choose what you eat. You sleep in a different place every day on a mat, but you don't have one place that you sleep, so nothing is yours. You wear the same style of clothing every day, so there's no, you know, all that kind of stuff. But so that simplifies the outer layer. But one thing that I've found, and, and this is what I found profound and, and I wanna ask you this as well, is as I came back into the real world, "real world"-

Kunal Nayyar 25:42 Yeah

Jay Shetty 25:42 ... we'll use that for now, the, what I found simplicity and the definition of simplicity that really brings me alive is simplicity of intention.

Kunal Nayyar 25:52 Mm.

Jay Shetty 25:52 Because what I found is that sometimes you can be externally simple-

Kunal Nayyar 25:58 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 25:58 ... but you're complicated up here.

Kunal Nayyar 26:00 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 26:01 And so some people live very externally simple lives, but really it's all complicated up here. And then the opposite is true, where you're simple mentally, but then your externals are complicated. And so for me, I was really seeking this definition of simplicity that I could live by.

Kunal Nayyar 26:14 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 26:14 And I was also trying to, and I, I wanna talk to you about this because I know you talk about this, this, this kind of never-ending cycle of obsession with what's next.

Kunal Nayyar 26:23 Mm.

Jay Shetty 26:23 Right? Like, they're always chasing what's next. And then I was like, "But how do you continue to live in this world, be o- be in this world, keep being active?" Because we can't all just sit down and do nothing.

Kunal Nayyar 26:36 I understand.

Jay Shetty 26:37 And, and you, and you are, too, and that's what I wanna figure out from you. That's my question, that how are you continuing to pursue any pursuit, whatever it may be, but continuing to connect with that simplicity and that happiness now?

Kunal Nayyar 26:50 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 26:50 How are you monitoring that balance in your own life of being ambitious-

Kunal Nayyar 26:54 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 26:54 ... being open to new opportunities, but still remaining simple, happy, grounded, present? How are you, how are you juggling that? Or how are you f- how are you thinking through that?

Kunal Nayyar 27:03 Yeah, I mean, that's a good question.

Jay Shetty 27:04 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 27:05 Um-

Jay Shetty 27:06 I'm not saying n- any of us have mastered it. I'm, I'm intrigued by it.

Kunal Nayyar 27:08 No, I don't know. I don't know. I, I think that, uh, you said something interesting about the simplicity of intention. I think that's where it lies. I'm ambitious, uh, because I enjoy acting, uh, you know? Someone may be ambitious because they enjoy cars and they want a certain kind of car. Nice. That's a beaut- who cares? That's a nice ambition, you know? It, it is, you're... The problem is in actually the words and the language.

Jay Shetty 27:36 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 27:37 Ambition is imbued with an emotion. "I'm an ambitious person. That person's not so ambitious," you know? Um, "My goals are like that. That person's goal is not like that." Uh, "I want this kind of a life, so it means this kind of a thing for me." You know, just do what you wanna do. Uh, if, if, if you wanna be ambitious, be ambitious, but don't think, "I have to be ambitious for a certain way of life," or, "I need to be a certain way." Just be what it is and do what it is that in here feels right. If that means being ambitious, be ambitious. If... I don't think of it, "I have to balance my life." My life is just the way it is.

Jay Shetty 28:16 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 28:16 It's just that I'm not looking at everything and attaching emotion to everything. There's no resistance anymore within me to my life. If I have to do something, I'll do it in whatever manner is necessary for the situation.

Jay Shetty 28:30 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 28:31 You know? If I have... It doesn't mean I'm impervious to anger or anxiety or anything. I'm sometimes happy. Sometimes I'm sad. I just have stopped thinking so much about... What happens is because of a perception of the world, something bad happens, and an old tape starts playing. And when an old tape starts playing, we get pissed off at that old tape, so we add another tape on top of that. "I am pissed off because of the old tape is playing," so now you've got two tapes that are playing, right? Then you read 3,000 books about how to stop that tape to stop that tape, and that's a third tape. So now you have three programs running, when in the first place you could have been said, "Oh, you know what? Yeah, I'm just having a shitty day, and I'm pissed off. Cool. Next."

Jay Shetty 29:17 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 29:19 And right there, it's over.

Jay Shetty 29:20 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 29:21 It's the resistance to what is, is where it li- where all of the, that comes from.

Jay Shetty 29:28 Mm. Yeah, so y- yeah, I, yeah, totally. I completely agree. This, it's the resistance to not accepting what is happening in that moment that creates the layer.

Kunal Nayyar 29:36 But even in the acceptance it can add another tape. "I'm not accepting what's happening."

Jay Shetty 29:41 Yeah, so it's the resistance-

Kunal Nayyar 29:43 Exactly

Jay Shetty 29:43 ... every time you're resisting, avoiding, running away from, not accepting.

Kunal Nayyar 29:48 Yeah. If you can just be fully here, "Someone passed away and I'm feeling horribly sad," what's wrong with that, you know? "I just made a lot of money. I'm feeling incredibly happy," what's wrong with that?

Jay Shetty 30:03 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 30:04 Sometimes you achieve what you wanna achieve and there's still a "but" attached to it. Why? You know?

Jay Shetty 30:10 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 30:10 That's the simplicity of intention that you're talking about.

Jay Shetty 30:14 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 30:15 You don't have to go to a cave and sit for 10 years to meditate, you know? You probably, your bum will start hurting sitting on the rocks. I mean, [laughs] it's, it's okay. You don't, you can sleep in a comfortable bed and just be as peaceful.

Jay Shetty 30:27 It's true.

Kunal Nayyar 30:27 You can drive a really nice car and enjoy the fruits of your labor- And what's wrong with that? Do you have to say, "Well, there's a starving child in, in Sudan or India or, or even in America or anywhere, so I shouldn't enjoy the fruits of my life"? Why not do it all? Why not give back and enjoy?

Jay Shetty 30:49 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 30:49 It... That is the simplicity, is to accept the totality of what you are. You are all.

Jay Shetty 30:57 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 30:58 You know? I am, um, I can have a cup of coffee and have a very profound moment, or I can be dancing on a table till 3:00 in the morning and have a profound moment also. Why can't I be anything that is that I want to be? No resistance. No resistance. It's my life. It's my expression of this consciousness. It's my chance to experience this beautiful thing that is here.

Jay Shetty 31:25 Mm. And, and every one of those choices that are made in alignment with that will only reveal more. That's the point. That, that-

Kunal Nayyar 31:33 Oh, yeah

Jay Shetty 31:33 ... that, that, that-

Kunal Nayyar 31:33 That's, that's a very good point.

Jay Shetty 31:34 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 31:35 Yes. If you're doing it to run away-

Jay Shetty 31:37 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 31:37 ... it can be very messy.

Jay Shetty 31:38 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 31:38 But the beautiful thing about living this life awake is you begin to enjoy those things so much more because they're coming from a place of freedom, not from a place of being trapped.

Jay Shetty 31:47 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 31:48 You know? And that's, that sticking thing that's in here, it's not like when I achieve this, then I'll be free. No, it'll just be another sticking point.

Jay Shetty 31:55 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 31:55 That's not the answer. It's just this thing that's in here that's stuck. You just have to be like, "Oh, what is this? What is this?" And you'll realize, I don't wanna say it, I guess, you'll realize whatever it is that you realize for yourself, you know, when you look within. But it starts here.

Jay Shetty 32:09 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 32:10 And it doesn't start with a... Reading really helped me. Books really helped me, really helped me. It really helped me think my way into here.

Jay Shetty 32:19 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 32:19 But the final step you have to take yourself.

Jay Shetty 32:21 [laughs] Any, any books that you recommend or anything that really worked for you? Uh, because you have-

Kunal Nayyar 32:25 There's one coming out in April that I'm dying to read.

Jay Shetty 32:27 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 32:28 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:29 I'm excited to share it with you too.

Kunal Nayyar 32:31 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:31 I'm excited to share. There's a lot of what we're talking about that's in there, so-

Kunal Nayyar 32:34 Yeah

Jay Shetty 32:34 ... I'm looking forward. [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 32:34 You know, I, I, I started reading, um, like The Secret-

Jay Shetty 32:39 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 32:39 ... uh, The Four Agreements.

Jay Shetty 32:41 Yes, good books. Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 32:42 Um, a lot of those books, uh, I, I read a lot of Deepak Chopra's, uh, Seven Laws of Spiritual Success, which I love.

Jay Shetty 32:48 Yeah, wonderful book.

Kunal Nayyar 32:49 And that started the sort of psychological journey within, right? To... And then I read The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer. That was the jumping-off point for me-

Jay Shetty 32:57 Great book

Kunal Nayyar 32:57 ... because that n- helped me understand that there is a separation between who I am and my mind. My mind is recycling thoughts, and I can sit back and look at them. Oh my God, when I experienced that, I thought I have... This is it. I'm free. Yeah, boy, was I wrong. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 33:15 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember the first time I read that in the Bhagavad Gita, like you're not your clothes.

Kunal Nayyar 33:20 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 33:20 You know, the, like, like we, the, you know, we just change our clothes every day, and you can change your thoughts every day, and I was like, "Wow," like that makes so much sense. Like, I can look at my clothes and say, "I don't like those clothes"-

Kunal Nayyar 33:29 Yeah

Jay Shetty 33:30 ... and I can change them.

Kunal Nayyar 33:31 Mm.

Jay Shetty 33:31 And I can put on clothes and be like, "I like those clothes" and you can do the same with your thoughts every day.

Kunal Nayyar 33:34 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 33:34 I like those thoughts. I don't like those thoughts. Let me change those thoughts.

Kunal Nayyar 33:37 Yeah. Or you can even sit and not listen to any of them.

Jay Shetty 33:40 True, true.

Kunal Nayyar 33:41 You only listen to the ones that you're attached to.

Jay Shetty 33:43 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 33:43 'Cause your mind has, um, 3,000 thoughts that you probably don't even pay attention to, but you only pay attention to the ones... Like for me, even to this day, because I've had a gen- even in my family, genetic fear of heights from generations ago.

Jay Shetty 33:57 Oh, wow.

Kunal Nayyar 33:58 Even to this day, I remember growing up and my father wouldn't take an elevator, and that sort of probably came... Now he's, doesn't, now it's, he's over that. But at that time, that's probably where it came from for me. But even now, when I, you know, I don't wanna go on the 65th floor of a building because my body, the trauma in my body is still fresh, and it's still there.

Jay Shetty 34:16 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 34:16 I may not have resistance to it, but it's not a nice feeling. Okay. I don't sit here and say, "I have to climb Mount Everest to be free."

Jay Shetty 34:24 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 34:25 I'm free.

Jay Shetty 34:26 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 34:26 It may, it can all exist in here, and I'm still free. It's okay. It's okay to have things. You don't have to scrub yourself clean of everything and then become free. You are free once you realize that it's all okay. You can continue to work on it. You can continue to work on it. It's fine. So even to this day, I'll still have, like, a moment of... Now the anxiety is very rare, but, uh, anything that comes up, it comes up.

Jay Shetty 34:57 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 34:57 I was [laughs] telling you right before this, I was moving this weekend, and I said, "If you ever think you're spiritually realized, you should move."

Jay Shetty 35:03 Yeah, or help a friend move.

Kunal Nayyar 35:04 Or help a friend move.

Jay Shetty 35:05 [laughs] You didn't ask me, I would've helped you move.

Kunal Nayyar 35:07 Exactly. No, no, no, no.

Jay Shetty 35:08 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 35:08 Or spend one week with family. That's right. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 35:10 Yeah. [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 35:10 Baba Ramdas, who unfortunately just passed away-

Jay Shetty 35:12 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 35:13 ... lovely spiritual teacher-

Jay Shetty 35:13 Absolutely

Kunal Nayyar 35:13 ... just always said that, he's like, "Every time you think you're enlightened, spend one week with your family."

Jay Shetty 35:18 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 35:19 Which I think is so, it's so funny and so profound in a way.

Jay Shetty 35:23 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 35:23 You know? Your, your, your biggest, um... There was a, a teacher, Mooji, who I loved, who was very important for me to experience emptiness for the first time in a meditation. I experienced nothingness, and it was very beautiful. But Mooji said when he experienced his awakening, it was most profound. He, you know, all these things happened to him, and he sat down to eat, and the first thought that entered his mind is, "Why are you eating potatoes? You're gonna be diabetic." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 35:45 Wow.

Kunal Nayyar 35:45 And he just said, "I just freed you from my mind. Why is, how can that still exist?" You know?

Jay Shetty 35:51 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 35:51 And that's funny because that's just, that's the play, you know?

Jay Shetty 35:54 Yeah, absolutely.

Kunal Nayyar 35:55 It's crazy. But-

Jay Shetty 35:55 Yeah. I remember when we were monks, one of the, the reasons the path that I lived as worked so well is half the day was very much about your growth-

Kunal Nayyar 36:01 Mm

Jay Shetty 36:01 ... self-

Kunal Nayyar 36:02 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 36:02 ... and, and going, trying to find, going be- beyond the self, and the other half was with people-

Kunal Nayyar 36:07 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 36:07 ... with other monks, with villagers, with community. And because we were always told that if you're, when, if you're alone all the time-

Kunal Nayyar 36:15 Mm

Jay Shetty 36:15 ... your ego will convince you that you're humble. It's only when you're around people-

Kunal Nayyar 36:19 Oh, that's interesting. Yeah

Jay Shetty 36:19 ... like what you're saying about-

Kunal Nayyar 36:20 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 36:20 ... spending time with family. Like you, if you're always alone, you'll think you've become really enlightened. But actually, when you then re-interact with people, then you realize where you're really at because-

Kunal Nayyar 36:31 Well, in, in the ancient yogic tradition, when you did experience realization-

Jay Shetty 36:35 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 36:35 ... uh, you would have to be very carefully- ... taken away and, and sort of molded and shielded because it's kind of like when the worm is sheds, when the, when the caterpillar sheds the skin and becomes a butterfly, it's very vulnerable for that time.

Jay Shetty 36:51 Mm-hmm.

Kunal Nayyar 36:52 And if you experience awakening and you have no guide map or nothing to hold onto, it can be a very, very unnerving experience.

Jay Shetty 36:59 Yes.

Kunal Nayyar 36:59 It can be. So you, you should do it in a way that you have someone who you can talk to or someone who can help you through it, or a book or a guru or something, because I never really had that, but I had people that I listened to and spoke to, you know, through this process. But I think it c- it's very important, and I think that's where that comes from. That's why people go hide away from people, because they want to fully understand what this is and mature into that awakening.

Jay Shetty 37:24 Yes.

Kunal Nayyar 37:25 Because if you get thrust back into this world full of ego, you shut back right up.

Jay Shetty 37:29 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 37:29 You know, it's like, uh, you have this beautiful ocean and you're this drop, and you drop in, but a big drop drops in and it comes back out a bit, and it drops back in and it drops back. You know, it goes like this. And then until you finally merge, but in that dropping, going away, it can just shut.

Jay Shetty 37:43 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 37:44 And it's very hard.

Jay Shetty 37:45 That's so true.

Kunal Nayyar 37:46 You know?

Jay Shetty 37:46 Yeah. That's a really good point.

Kunal Nayyar 37:48 But, uh, I know a lot of people listening to this probably just want to be like, "Yeah, I know you're talking about all this, but how do I just be happy? How do I just be peaceful? How do I just like... I just want to wake up and, you know, and shut my mind off" And I'm just here to tell you, you can't shut your mind off. It's a beautiful tool to use. You need your mind. It's created this incredible thing in this world, you know? This, this microphone, I mean, this thing, it's all because of people's minds. Some guy and some girl saw the moon and put up a rocket ship and went to it. It's just incredible. Why would you not want to use that?

Jay Shetty 38:17 Right.

Kunal Nayyar 38:17 It's just that it's using you.

Jay Shetty 38:19 Correct.

Kunal Nayyar 38:20 And you have to figure out how to use it.

Jay Shetty 38:22 Mm-hmm.

Kunal Nayyar 38:23 And that only comes with a little bit of looking at it and training and looking at it and training and, and, and takes time. You know? It's like learning the alphabet.

Jay Shetty 38:32 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 38:32 You start with the ABCs by being aware, then you start using language, and then you understand sarcasm and how to put sentences together and all that, you know?

Jay Shetty 38:40 Yeah. We forget that. That's a beautiful example. We forget that as kids, how much patience we had, how much non-judgment we had.

Kunal Nayyar 38:47 Yep.

Jay Shetty 38:47 Like, no one remembers, you know, messing up as a kid on something at home or like falling over and walking again, and you just don't remember it in a negative way. You never looked at yourself and said, "I fell over 10 times today"

Kunal Nayyar 39:00 [laughs] Yeah.

Jay Shetty 39:01 [laughs] You know, right? Oh, no. Like you d- you d- you never-

Kunal Nayyar 39:03 Yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 39:04 ... did that to yourself. You just allowed yourself to naturally engage with something and for it to naturally progress.

Kunal Nayyar 39:10 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 39:11 At least, I'm talking about like between zero to five.

Kunal Nayyar 39:12 No, no, I understand.

Jay Shetty 39:13 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 39:13 I mean, if I was to fall over 10 times right now, it'd be weird.

Jay Shetty 39:16 Yeah. [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 39:16 Be like, "I should probably go to the doctor" Yeah? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 39:18 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably. Probably true. Probably true. But, but with different challenges now, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 39:22 It is different challenges.

Jay Shetty 39:23 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 39:23 It's also, it's... I will say that I think that we drive our own selves crazy-

Jay Shetty 39:29 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 39:29 ... about all of this, I think. Like I go back to my earlier point, just stop the, stop the obsessive search so much.

Jay Shetty 39:37 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 39:37 It might be in front of you.

Jay Shetty 39:39 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 39:39 It might be right here and you're just looking everywhere else, you know?

Jay Shetty 39:42 Yeah. It's the obsession with perfection, I find.

Kunal Nayyar 39:45 Well, that you'll never get.

Jay Shetty 39:46 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 39:46 Not unless... No, you can. I mean, I think to be honest, you can get perfection, but to get that, you have to be willing to swap yourself out.

Jay Shetty 39:53 Mm-hmm. And it's, and it's almost like to get obsession, you have t- uh, to get perfection, you almost have to, you have to lose the obsession for perfection.

Kunal Nayyar 40:01 Yes. Or the idea of perfection.

Jay Shetty 40:03 And what it looks like to you-

Kunal Nayyar 40:05 What it looks like

Jay Shetty 40:05 ... because that's the attachment.

Kunal Nayyar 40:06 Yeah. The attachment also, it's because you kind of want to push away the ugly parts of you, and you want to pull in the beautiful parts of you, but that's just ugly and beautiful is also just kind of a concept. Take those words away for a second-

Jay Shetty 40:20 Mm

Kunal Nayyar 40:20 ... and just take away all concepts and see what's left. It's all of it.

Jay Shetty 40:27 So if we take something I like, let, let's pursue that. So, so if we take something like say envy.

Kunal Nayyar 40:32 Envy.

Jay Shetty 40:33 Let's take envy or, or anything you like. Let's take one of those things.

Kunal Nayyar 40:36 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 40:36 How would you-

Kunal Nayyar 40:37 Envy is a good... Envy, envy is a good start.

Jay Shetty 40:38 Yeah. How do you process that then? How does, how do we look at that? How do we change our view of that? Or what do we do with that-

Kunal Nayyar 40:44 Well-

Jay Shetty 40:44 ... as a thought?

Kunal Nayyar 40:44 If you look at someone else's life and you think, "Oh, that would be, you know, they live in a nice house and they look like they have a nice family. I want that," what's wrong with that?

Jay Shetty 40:56 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 40:56 But if you look at someone else's life and you say, "Oh, I want that. Oh, why do I want that? Does that make me envious? Oh, I want that because I'm envious. Oh, no. Wait, am I envious? I'm not envious" It's just like [laughs] this entire tape starts playing.

Jay Shetty 41:09 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 41:09 What's wrong? If you see something that you like and you want it, does that make you... What's wrong with wanting that?

Jay Shetty 41:14 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 41:16 Now, the rub lies in if you don't have that, does that make you unhappy?

Jay Shetty 41:20 Mm. And the other challenge is, which, which often comes up is, do you want that just because now every time you see someone with something, you want more? Because then it's just, it's what you're exposed to, right? Or is it that you really want that? Like, you really feel that's gonna make a difference, because I think so many people... And I agree with you. I love what you said about the non-judgment of it, because you're right that if you see something and you like it and you think it's important to you, and with that intention you pursue it, there's nothing wrong with that. It's when you either want to take it away from that person, where it becomes malicious-

Kunal Nayyar 41:49 Yeah

Jay Shetty 41:49 ... or whether it becomes a never-ending pursuit just because you see shiny things all the time.

Kunal Nayyar 41:56 Going back to exactly-

Jay Shetty 41:57 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 41:57 ... what you just said about the, the malicious, you want to take it away, I was thinking about this the other day. I think that inherently it is in human nature to be good. It just is-

Jay Shetty 42:10 Agreed

Kunal Nayyar 42:10 ... inherent in our nature because we come from nature. I mean, in nature, this is the way we are. We, we have communities, and we build communities, and we live together in harmony. And that's why I think it feels so bad when someone is mean to us or when we feel like we want to be mean to someone, because it feels very unnatural.

Jay Shetty 42:33 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 42:33 When someone says something very mean to you, it feels very like, "Oh, that's, that's not..." Something within you automatically is like, "Wait, that's not, this is not how it should be" And vice versa, if you're mean to someone-

Jay Shetty 42:44 It never feels good

Kunal Nayyar 42:45 ... it never feels good. But why? Why? Because inherently in our nature, it is to be good. You don't have to work to be good. That's what I keep saying. You don't have to work to be loving. You actually are that. You just have to get rid of the one that is trying to be loving [laughs] you know?

Jay Shetty 43:09 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 43:10 You stop. You are loving. It's very easy to be closed off and tough and mean, and it's very hard to be loving. It's very hard to be loving-

Jay Shetty 43:24 Mm

Kunal Nayyar 43:24 ... because it takes a lot of courage, 'cause someone who doesn't agree with you, you still have to love them in a way.

Jay Shetty 43:32 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 43:32 You know? And that's why it's hard to be loving, because like I said earlier, no one gets to be excluded. Everyone wants to be loving. Yeah. Well, if you [laughs] really wanna be loving, turn on the television and watch the news, and pick out the one person or two or three people that you find are the most abhorrent people, and see if you can love them.

Jay Shetty 43:49 Ooh, love that as a good challenge.

Kunal Nayyar 43:52 Then you'll know if you've actually become that which it is that you seek.

Jay Shetty 43:56 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 43:57 You want to be loving, but... You [laughs] want to be peaceful, but... You want to like everyone, but... Remove this but, and there it is, your peace.

Jay Shetty 44:06 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 44:07 That's actually how simple it is. You don't have to run away somewhere. Right now in this moment, if you remove the but, there you are. You're right there, everything you wanted, you know?

Jay Shetty 44:22 Yeah. I love that, man. That's beautiful. This is great. This is awesome. See? Now you can see what we do when we get together.

Kunal Nayyar 44:28 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 44:28 We-

Kunal Nayyar 44:28 We also go to basketball games.

Jay Shetty 44:30 [laughs] Yeah, we do that too.

Kunal Nayyar 44:31 We like the Lakers, and-

Jay Shetty 44:32 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 44:32 ... we're also really fun in real life.

Jay Shetty 44:33 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 44:34 Like, we're fun, and we hang out.

Jay Shetty 44:35 But-

Kunal Nayyar 44:35 And we make jokes and...

Jay Shetty 44:36 Yeah. Well, Kunal, it's... Kunal, let's talk a bit about that.

Kunal Nayyar 44:38 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 44:39 Let's... We've, we've had a really deep dive. Let's talk a bit about... I wanna go back, because, you know, it's, it's easy for us, and to look at... I'm, I'm going back to some material conversation, but because it's linked to you-

Kunal Nayyar 44:49 No, no, I love it

Jay Shetty 44:49 ... it's spiritual. You know, the... People can look at you and think that, you know, your career's been this huge success and everything worked out. Tell me about some of the key failures that happened before this big moment in your career where things took off, because I think it's so easy for everyone to sit back and be like, "Oh, yeah, we found out about Kunal through Big Bang Theory."

Kunal Nayyar 45:07 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 45:07 Like, life just went... Like, tell us about some of the big moments that you remember now when you look back on, you know, like, "God, that was a moment where I just-"

Kunal Nayyar 45:14 Yeah

Jay Shetty 45:14 ... you know, that's the one I remember, and that's what makes this now so much more meaningful.

Kunal Nayyar 45:18 Yeah, I mean, look, I, in, I, I got my, uh, bachelor's in theater and in business. I never got a degree in theater 'cause-

Jay Shetty 45:25 Marketing specifically?

Kunal Nayyar 45:26 Marketing-

Jay Shetty 45:26 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 45:26 ... was my degree, and-

Jay Shetty 45:28 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 45:28 ... I told my parents I wanted to be an actor, and their advice, which was very sound at the time, said, "Look, become an actor, but have something to fall back on, 'cause it's a very difficult industry," and it is a very difficult industry to make it. And I did that, and then I got my master's in acting, and all through grad school, all through undergrad, you know, this was a very different time in America. I had never got any of the roles I wanted, really. I was always the funny guy or the older guy or the, the sidekick, you know? And I would sit... We were doing The Seagull, a great play by Chekhov, and I wanted to play the lead role, and I didn't get it. And, and I would sit in the wings every, in the side of the theater every, every performance and mouth his words.

Jay Shetty 46:08 Wow.

Kunal Nayyar 46:09 You know? And, uh, and I did it with a f- with a lot of plays, and I kept dreaming that this is gonna be me one day. This is gonna be me one day. And, you know, I only had 10 months left on my visa, otherwise I'd have to go back to India and, uh, work or England and work, which is fine, too. And, uh, I auditioned for a play in the basement of the Mac Store on Fifth Avenue. Remember that glass box? 'Cause I didn't have a computer. I didn't have the money, and this director was in LA, and she said, you know... This, they were setting up iCh- I don't even know what it was called at that time. AOL Video? AOL Video maybe? I, just something it was called.

Jay Shetty 46:44 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 46:44 In the Mac Store they had that thing. And I auditioned for this lady director in LA in the basement of the Mac Store, and I got the part on the, on the spot, and I look over. I was, like, crying in this audition [laughs]

Jay Shetty 46:55 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 46:55 It's, like, so funny. 30 Asian tourists are taking pictures of me. [laughs] You know? That was a joke. Um-

Jay Shetty 47:01 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 47:02 S- they don't have to be Asian. Uh, they could be Indian. They could be any.

Jay Shetty 47:05 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 47:06 Uh, and then [laughs] and then, uh, I moved to LA for $7, um, a play, and I didn't have a car.

Jay Shetty 47:13 $7 a play?

Kunal Nayyar 47:14 It was a non-equity show. Uh, and then I... And I was living on a friend's couch, and I was taking the bus, which if you live in Los Angeles, you, it would take me an hour and a half from Santa Monica to Pico. And, um, and I was working in a raw food restaurant. Can you believe? I didn't even know raw, what raw food was, no offense to anyone at that time.

Jay Shetty 47:33 At that time, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 47:34 I was like, "Hey, I didn't know-"

Jay Shetty 47:34 It wasn't as trendy then.

Kunal Nayyar 47:35 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 47:35 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 47:35 And I remember, 'cause I got the job off Craigslist, and she said, "Do you know about raw food?" I was like, "Yeah, you use less cooking oil, right?" Or something like dumb like that, and she was like, "No, we use no oil." I was like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, less, no," I mean, same.

Jay Shetty 47:47 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 47:48 [laughs] I was like, just... And then I ended up working there, and, um, it was a whole comedy of errors. I remember I rented, uh, for my final audition of Big Bang, I had to rent a car to drive to the studio, and I rented the cheapest car, and they didn't have it, so they upgraded me to a Toyota Solaris, if you ever seen this car, and it was a convertible, white. I mean, I drove onto that lot.

Jay Shetty 48:10 Yeah [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 48:11 Like, I was like-

Jay Shetty 48:11 In a Ferrari.

Kunal Nayyar 48:12 Yeah, I was like P. Diddy or something-

Jay Shetty 48:13 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 48:13 ... you know, and I was playing California. I was, like, driving. I was like, yeah. Uh, it was really fun, and, and then when I booked the pilot, I bought a car from the auction, a Nissan Altima with a broken light, and I drove up on the first day of Big Bang, and I said, "I gotta get a new car"

Jay Shetty 48:30 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 48:32 You know? So it was, it was a... There's so many stories about-

Jay Shetty 48:35 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 48:35 ... but it was... Yeah, everyone comes from somewhere, everyone. I stopped ever looking at anyone who's successful and think they've been given it.

Jay Shetty 48:43 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 48:44 Because even if they have been given it, in some way there's a lot of internal struggle even in that. The feeling that they don't deserve it is worse. Than struggling-

Jay Shetty 48:55 Mm

Kunal Nayyar 48:56 ... to be honest. 'Cause when you struggle, you have a real righteousness about it, "I'm struggling" But when you're handed it, the feeling of inadequacy is horrible.

Jay Shetty 49:04 Wow, man. Thank you for sharing those. I, I feel like, I feel like we're gonna need a part two and three just to-

Kunal Nayyar 49:09 [laughs] No, no, no

Jay Shetty 49:09 ... dive into each of those stories.

Kunal Nayyar 49:10 In part two we talk about-

Jay Shetty 49:11 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 49:12 ... the Lakers and how they need another piece to win the championship. They need a three-and-D guy.

Jay Shetty 49:16 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 49:16 Uh, but that's my point is-

Jay Shetty 49:18 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 49:18 ... sometimes we get so inundated with this thing about spirituality-

Jay Shetty 49:22 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 49:22 ... but it's just a word.

Jay Shetty 49:23 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 49:24 To be truly spiritual means to actually live a very full life, that in here it's very simple and peaceful, and here, in here it can be very dynamic.

Jay Shetty 49:33 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 49:33 You can drive a beautiful car and, and ni- and like to travel and like nice clothes and, and also help the poor and also do service and, uh, do it all. Why are we living in such a limited perception of the infinite beings that we are?

Jay Shetty 49:51 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 49:51 Why?

Jay Shetty 49:52 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 49:53 Why? Because the limited perception can never truly understand what it is to be infinite.

Jay Shetty 50:00 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 50:01 So to become infinite, which you already are, you have to take the one that believes in the limited perception and put them aside and finally step into everything that you are.

Jay Shetty 50:13 Mm. There he goes being spiritual again.

Kunal Nayyar 50:16 God. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 50:16 [laughs] Went back to it. Yeah, no, no, and I-

Kunal Nayyar 50:19 I was so close.

Jay Shetty 50:20 Yeah, and I, and I experienced that too, I think. You know, when I c- when I came back, and hence my book's called Think Like a Monk, because the whole point is that you can think this way, and this is how to change your thinking and everything.

Kunal Nayyar 50:30 Yes.

Jay Shetty 50:30 But I'm not telling you to live like a monk.

Kunal Nayyar 50:33 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 50:33 I'm not, I'm not telling anyone to-

Kunal Nayyar 50:34 Or if you want to-

Jay Shetty 50:35 ... to give up

Kunal Nayyar 50:35 ... you could.

Jay Shetty 50:35 Of course, of course.

Kunal Nayyar 50:36 I mean, that's another thing.

Jay Shetty 50:37 Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 50:38 It's why not, you know?

Jay Shetty 50:38 Yeah, why not? Yeah, it's open.

Kunal Nayyar 50:39 I think that people think, "Oh, you're spiritual. Why do you live in... You know, why, why aren't you in a, in a cave wearing, you know, only cotton made from-

Jay Shetty 50:47 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 50:47 ... a worm?" I'm like, because that would be very unspiritual of me if I was doing it for a reason to prove a point.

Jay Shetty 50:52 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 50:53 If I wanted to do that, I would.

Jay Shetty 50:54 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 50:55 You know?

Jay Shetty 50:55 Absolutely. Absolutely.

Kunal Nayyar 50:56 Live of live-

Jay Shetty 50:56 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 50:56 ... that is the point. Being spiritual is being who you are.

Jay Shetty 51:00 Yes, following the intuition.

Kunal Nayyar 51:02 Yes.

Jay Shetty 51:02 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 51:02 From here.

Jay Shetty 51:03 Yeah, from here. Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 51:03 Once you're free-

Jay Shetty 51:05 Yeah

Kunal Nayyar 51:05 ... be who you are.

Jay Shetty 51:06 Yeah. I've always said that. I felt that when I became a monk, I felt that when I left.

Kunal Nayyar 51:10 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 51:10 I felt that when I started making videos.

Kunal Nayyar 51:12 Mm.

Jay Shetty 51:12 I felt that when I'm sitting with you today. Like-

Kunal Nayyar 51:14 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 51:14 ... I'm constantly following that. Even when I get the smallest inkling to message someone, and we've done that sometimes.

Kunal Nayyar 51:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 51:19 I wake up from meditation and I message you, and there'll be, like, an interesting point. We're like, "Oh, I was just thinking about you," or, "We- I was just talking about you," whatever it is. And I, I just follow it at all times, and I've seen it never let you down. It's so fascinating-

Kunal Nayyar 51:31 Yeah

Jay Shetty 51:32 ... when you, when you actually get that inkling. Not impulse. I'm not talking about impulse at all.

Kunal Nayyar 51:35 But everyone has it.

Jay Shetty 51:36 Yeah. Everyone has it, yeah. It's-

Kunal Nayyar 51:37 The, but the-

Jay Shetty 51:38 I'm not special, yeah

Kunal Nayyar 51:38 ... everyone has intuition.

Jay Shetty 51:41 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 51:41 Everyone has instinct. Everyone has... Just stop trying.

Jay Shetty 51:45 God.

Kunal Nayyar 51:45 Stop trying to have it.

Jay Shetty 51:46 Yes.

Kunal Nayyar 51:47 You already have it.

Jay Shetty 51:48 Yes.

Kunal Nayyar 51:49 You already have it.

Jay Shetty 51:50 Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 51:51 Believe. I mean, you can't kind of believe. I hope if anything after this video is that one thing. You can't kind of believe and kind of not believe.

Jay Shetty 52:00 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 52:00 Today do one thing, just believe. Believe you are incredible, actually. Believe it. Why waste one second in a small, narrow perception anymore?

Jay Shetty 52:13 Mm.

Kunal Nayyar 52:13 You are universally infinite. Believe it. It's right in front of you. You are running everywhere trying to find. You are that. You are already that. You are perfect and loving and peaceful, and you're also crazy and loud and angry. It's okay. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 52:30 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 52:31 It's okay. I was just... Like I s- You know, I went nuts this weekend while I was moving on something, and I was like, "Ah, ah, ah," and then it felt so good too. I was like, "Oh, there's a tiger in me too-

Jay Shetty 52:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Kunal Nayyar 52:40 ... you know, if I need to." [laughs] Like, if there's... There's, there's a tiger in me too.

Jay Shetty 52:44 Yeah. When you can laugh at it, you can-

Kunal Nayyar 52:45 There's a Buddha in me too, and there's a tiger in me too.

Jay Shetty 52:47 Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Kunal Nayyar 52:48 You know? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 52:49 I love it, man. So we're gonna end today's interview, I know you've got to rush off as well, with the final five, which is our final five rapid-fire round.

Kunal Nayyar 52:56 Go ahead. Okay.

Jay Shetty 52:56 So you have to answer in one word to one sentence maximum to all of these.

Kunal Nayyar 53:00 Okay. One... Say that again?

Jay Shetty 53:00 One word-

Kunal Nayyar 53:01 Yeah

Jay Shetty 53:01 ... ideally.

Kunal Nayyar 53:01 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 53:01 But I let people go to one sentence if it's expansive and it's, you know, you wanna say-

Kunal Nayyar 53:06 And if I get them right, do I get a gift basket?

Jay Shetty 53:08 No, no, there's no... This is not, uh, Coffee With Karan. There is no, uh-

Kunal Nayyar 53:11 Coffee With Karan. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 53:11 [laughs] There's no... That's what I thought when you said gift basket. [laughs] There's no gift basket, but we will send you a gift afterwards.

Kunal Nayyar 53:17 Okay. Thank you.

Jay Shetty 53:17 Either way. Either way.

Kunal Nayyar 53:19 Thank you. Some ChapStick would be nice.

Jay Shetty 53:19 Either way. [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 53:20 It's oddly dry in Los Angeles.

Jay Shetty 53:22 Either way. Okay, cool. So the first question is the last kind thing you've done for a stranger?

Kunal Nayyar 53:29 I gave a, a home- Oh, sh- oh, no, I can't. Well, just-

Jay Shetty 53:34 No, you can. Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 53:35 Oh, I... We went and bought some food for a homeless person who was outside at Rite Aid the other day.

Jay Shetty 53:41 Great. Okay. Second question: What's something you once took for granted that you value now?

Kunal Nayyar 53:46 Time.

Jay Shetty 53:47 Mm. Nice. Good answer. Question number three: What's the one question you ask yourself the most?

Kunal Nayyar 53:55 Is this for real? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 53:57 [laughs] Nice. Uh, and that can work in so many ways.

Kunal Nayyar 54:00 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 54:00 I love that question. That works in so many ways. Awesome. Okay, question number four: Uh, what's something about you that most people don't know that would surprise them?

Kunal Nayyar 54:09 I love dancing. I'm a... I love being on the dance floor.

Jay Shetty 54:14 And you're a great dancer.

Kunal Nayyar 54:15 I don't know if I'm a great dancer.

Jay Shetty 54:16 Okay.

Kunal Nayyar 54:16 I just, I love it, so if you see me out in a nightclub somewhere, don't judge me. I just love dancing.

Jay Shetty 54:21 [laughs] I love that. All right, and question number five, the final five question is, if you could create a law that the whole world had to follow, what would it be?

Kunal Nayyar 54:29 If I could create a l- actual, a law?

Jay Shetty 54:31 A law. Yeah, an actual law-

Kunal Nayyar 54:32 A law

Jay Shetty 54:32 ... that everyone had to follow. Like, a law, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 54:34 Yeah. Oh.

Jay Shetty 54:36 I can't actually make any of this happen. I'm just, [laughs] I'm just-

Kunal Nayyar 54:39 I don't know, man.

Jay Shetty 54:39 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 54:39 You, the way you're going, anything is possible. I mean, Oprah and Jay Shetty for president and vice president. That's what I'm thinking. Like, that's gonna be great. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 54:47 [laughs] I don't think they'll ever allow a Brit to run for president.

Kunal Nayyar 54:50 But there was one law, seriously, that-

Jay Shetty 54:51 Yeah, yeah

Kunal Nayyar 54:52 ... uh, if we could... If we-

Jay Shetty 54:52 That you could instate that everyone would have to follow, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar 54:55 And for everyone, you have to love yourself first.

Jay Shetty 54:59 Beautiful. I love it. Kunal-

Kunal Nayyar 55:01 Cool

Jay Shetty 55:01 ... thank, thank you, man. We have to do part two.

Kunal Nayyar 55:03 No, no.

Jay Shetty 55:04 There is so much we can dive into, Kunal. Like-

Kunal Nayyar 55:05 Oh, the universe will. It will

Jay Shetty 55:06 ... we'll discuss it. But thank you, man.

Kunal Nayyar 55:08 It will. Thanks.

Jay Shetty 55:08 Thank you so much for coming. I know you've had a busy weekend.

Kunal Nayyar 55:10 No, no, it's all good.

Jay Shetty 55:10 I know you're traveling today, and this was a lot of fun. I think we, we covered a lot of ground.

Kunal Nayyar 55:13 We should do a podcast at a Lakers game.

Jay Shetty 55:15 Oh, I'd love that. That would be great.

Kunal Nayyar 55:16 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 55:17 Yeah, that would be-

Kunal Nayyar 55:17 I don't know how it'd work for sound.

Jay Shetty 55:18 You, you, you'll be able to hook it up.

Kunal Nayyar 55:20 Yeah, exactly.

Jay Shetty 55:20 [laughs]

Kunal Nayyar 55:21 Yeah. Yeah, let me just text LeBron James.

Jay Shetty 55:23 Yeah, yeah, courtside.

Kunal Nayyar 55:24 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 55:24 Courtside. It has to be courtside. We have to have the, the full view.

Kunal Nayyar 55:27 Yeah. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 55:27 And we have to have LeBron on the podcast at the same time.

Kunal Nayyar 55:29 Yeah, yeah. Okay, great.

Jay Shetty 55:30 So it has to be three-way, while he's playing.

Kunal Nayyar 55:32 Great, great. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 55:32 [laughs] I love it. Kunal, thank you so much.

Kunal Nayyar 55:34 Thanks, man.

Jay Shetty 55:34 You've been an amazing guest on On Purpose-

Kunal Nayyar 55:36 Thanks, man

Jay Shetty 55:37 ... and just really grateful for your friendship, man, honestly.

Kunal Nayyar 55:38 Thanks.

Jay Shetty 55:38 Thank you for, thank you for allowing me into your life. Thank you for, uh, helping us build a great friendship, and I'm excited for many more good times together.

Kunal Nayyar 55:46 And I can't wait for April.

Jay Shetty 55:47 Yeah. Thank you, man.

Kunal Nayyar 55:47 That's the book.

Jay Shetty 55:48 Thank you. Thank you so much.

Kunal Nayyar 55:48 I can't wait. It's gonna be great.

Jay Shetty 55:49 Thank you, bro. Appreciate it. If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here. I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book, Think Like a Monk, from thinklikeamonkbook.com. Check below in the description to make sure you order today.