Chris Appleton EXCLUSIVE: Breaking His Silence on His Divorce & Coming Out to His Wife and Kids

1. 0:00 – 3:13

   Intro

   1. CAChris Appleton0:02

      [dramatic music] I felt like it would be better for them to have a dad that was dead than a dad that was gay. It's not something I've ever spoken about.

   2. SPSpeaker0:12

      Chris Appleton is a hairstylist to the stars.

   3. CAChris Appleton0:14

      Including Jennifer Lopez, Kim Kardashian, Dua Lipa.

   4. JSJay Shetty0:18

      When did you realize that you couldn't stop hiding who you really were?

   5. CAChris Appleton0:22

      I came out at twenty-six, and a lot of people said to me, "Well, you must have already known, like, and just hid it." And I, I wasn't aware that I did know. Being a gay child, I learned to hide myself. When I did hair, there was this whole thing about sexuality, and it's like, "Oh, you're gay. Being gay must be bad 'cause people are..." You know, they weren't saying it in a nice way. Like, "You're gay." They were like, "You're gay."

   6. JSJay Shetty0:43

      It was you who filed for divorce. Everything you've been through, I can imagine that's not easy.

   7. CAChris Appleton0:48

      Just because it's not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something. People say things about you. There's things in the tabloid. I was going through a lot of private pain. What really helped me was not being okay.

   8. JSJay Shetty1:00

      You write about the night that you tried to end your life.

   9. CAChris Appleton1:04

      I closed my eyes, and this is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore.

   10. JSJay Shetty1:08

       We reached out to the kids. They sent us a note for you.

   11. CAChris Appleton1:12

       Oh, God. I don't know what to say. [sighs] The number one health and wellness podcast.

   12. SPSpeaker1:20

       Jay Shetty.

   13. CAChris Appleton1:20

       Jay Shetty.

   14. SPSpeaker1:21

       The one, the only Jay Shetty.

   15. JSJay Shetty1:24

       [laughs] I'm always fascinated by how who we were places imprints on us into who we become. And I wanted to ask you, do you have a childhood experience that you remember that you think has defined who you are today? An experience or a memory that you have that you feel had some coding into who you've become today.

   16. CAChris Appleton1:44

       You know, it's funny you say that because I have a very distinct memory, but for a long time, it was a really sad one. But the more I've understood that memory, the more I realized it was kind of where I was at in my life. And it's sad because I guess it, it was a, a memory at the age of... I was maybe sort of eight or nine years old, and I remember looking outside the window. I'm, I'm-- I come from a big family in the UK. I'm one of five. We were, you know, really working class, if not poor. You know, we didn't have many luxuries. And life was real. It was, it was very, you know, different to LA and sunshine. It was quite rainy and gray, and I remember sort of looking out the window, and I felt like I didn't really belong. I knew I felt different. I knew there was something different. Like, my brothers enjoyed doing football and sports, and my sisters liked doing girls things like, I don't know, they were playing with Barbies or braiding hair, and I kind of fell somewhere in the middle. I didn't really feel like I fit, fit in. I was a middle child also. And I remember just looking out, and I felt quite alone. And I think that was the beginning of me kind of abandoning myself in a way to fit in, to fit in with what I think people around me thought I should be or, or who I was told to be. So that memory was, in one way, it's very motivational now. Now I know what it meant 'cause I can kinda go back to that moment, and I've learned that during therapy and sort of being able to, like, connect with that inner child, which for so long I ignored.

2. 3:13 – 6:19

   Your Roots Don't Define Who You Can Become

   1. CAChris Appleton3:13

      But I think for me, it was a real special moment that I go back to because you can kinda change that. You can change what you came from, and that's a, a lot about what the book's about. It's about how your roots don't define you, and it really is about, you know, we all grow up being told to be something or be someone, or we have influences around us which kind of lead us into a certain part of our lives. And sometimes we stop and look in the mirror and don't recognize how we got there-

   2. JSJay Shetty3:39

      Mm-hmm

   3. CAChris Appleton3:40

      ... let alone how we look.

   4. JSJay Shetty3:42

      Yeah.

   5. CAChris Appleton3:42

      You know, sometimes I, I've worked with clients, and I'll say, "You've got short, dark hair and, and, and bangs. Why, why is that?" And it's like, "Well, it's just what I've always had. I don't know." I'm like, "Well, have you ever thought about going lighter and longer?" "Well, no, not really." "Why not?" "Well, just 'cause that's not what..." And they kind of then stop and go, "Well, why have I never thought that?" 'Cause no one had given them the freedom to.

   6. JSJay Shetty4:00

      Mm.

   7. CAChris Appleton4:00

      And a lot about what my job was about is really kinda opening people up. It's, it's really starts on the outside as a visual, but then once you start going internal with things and breaking down these kind of boundaries, it's really quite magical what can happen. And that, in a nutshell, is kind of what I've always done, gone that little bit deeper. And I guess going back to that childhood memory really helps me kind of remember that, that your roots really don't define you, and you do have a chance to start again. It's never too late.

   8. JSJay Shetty4:27

      Yeah. It's such a interesting connection that you made there because most people wouldn't see that. You wouldn't, you wouldn't think that something aesthetic like that about yourself is so deep-rooted, but it is.

   9. CAChris Appleton4:38

      Hundred percent.

   10. JSJay Shetty4:38

       And all these limitations and blocks and all this conditioning that we all have, whether it's about who you can become, how much money you can make, who you're meant to be in the world. And for you, you fell in love with the hair quite early, right?

   11. CAChris Appleton4:49

       Yeah.

   12. JSJay Shetty4:50

       Like, that was something you discovered.

   13. CAChris Appleton4:51

       Really early.

   14. JSJay Shetty4:51

       What, what was the discovery of it?

   15. CAChris Appleton4:53

       I think it was honestly the first time I felt good at something. I was pretty young. I was maybe, I think, nine, ten years old, or sort of similar age, where I was dyslexic, so no one really knew, knew what that was then.

   16. JSJay Shetty5:03

       Definitely.

   17. CAChris Appleton5:03

       So you were kinda just told you were stupid. I remember I used to sit in the classes, and I was like, "Please, someone answer the question," 'cause I did not know what he was going on about. When I sort of started to paint, I noticed I got, like, a re-reaction. And then when I started to use my hands and do hair, which was my mom at the time, I realized you had this ability to sort of change the way people felt. I really liked that. I loved that you could transform people. I was really mesmerized by that, but I noticed people reacted different, and I felt like that was almost like a superpower. So I just thought I, I'm gonna be the best at it. This, this is what I'm good at. I'll, I'll be the best at it, and I'll prove everyone wrong and I c- that I'm not stupid. And again, just being conditioned to... I mean, I was pretty bullied at school because of that. And then when I did hair, there was this whole thing about sexuality, and it's like, "Oh, you're gay." 'Cause no one back then did hair, espe- no one had a job at thirteen. And doing hair was, you know, stereotypically where I grew up, people, you know, said, "Okay, well, are you gay?" AndThat was before I really even understood sexuality. I didn't even really consider it. I was just a young guy having a great time. You know, when you're a kid, you just-

   18. JSJay Shetty6:08

       Mm.

   19. CAChris Appleton6:08

       You're free.

   20. JSJay Shetty6:09

       Yeah.

   21. CAChris Appleton6:09

       You know, it's great. It's such a good feeling.

   22. JSJay Shetty6:10

       Mm.

   23. CAChris Appleton6:10

       And then the harsh reality of life [laughs] slaps you around the face one day. And I remember sort of things just like, well, bad-- that's bad, like, being gay must be bad 'cause people

3. 6:19 – 10:11

   Is It Safer to Hide Who You Really Are?

   1. CAChris Appleton6:19

      are... They weren't saying it in a nice way. Like, "You're gay." They were like, "You're gay." You know, people would, like, spit on you and... I mean, it was bad. I got bullied quite aggressively and I think that really led me to push and I guess push away from myself.

   2. JSJay Shetty6:35

      Mm.

   3. CAChris Appleton6:35

      That's, I think, when the curtain started to come down and I, I really abandoned myself 'cause I started to become a version of myself that I thought other people wanted to see.

   4. JSJay Shetty6:44

      Mm.

   5. CAChris Appleton6:45

      So talk a little bit more masculine, stand more masculine. You know, you start to become very aware of your mannerisms. Doing hair was feminine, so I kind of kept it to myself and I just kept my head down. I, I didn't wanna tell people about it. And it's really sad because I think being a gay child, I learned to hide myself. I learned to hide the parts of myself that were authentic and I adapted myself into being something that I thought other people wanted me to be. And as an adult what you have to do is then unpick those parts and find out what were the parts that are actually me-

   6. JSJay Shetty7:22

      Mm

   7. CAChris Appleton7:22

      ... and the parts that I created for other people. And a-as much as anything, I'll go back to the book, like, there is stories about my life and it's reflection, but it's really about helping people get, to get back to theirs and unpick it as well.

   8. JSJay Shetty7:32

      Yeah.

   9. CAChris Appleton7:32

      'Cause sometimes it takes a bit of that work.

   10. JSJay Shetty7:34

       Yeah.

   11. CAChris Appleton7:35

       And that work can be brutal. It's not the easiest work I've ever done, but I would say the most rewarding for sure.

   12. JSJay Shetty7:40

       Yeah. I like, I like the way you drew that, that when you reflect on your past you've got to pick apart the parts that you made for yourself and the parts that you made for others.

   13. CAChris Appleton7:48

       Hundred percent.

   14. JSJay Shetty7:48

       That's such a great way of looking at it.

   15. CAChris Appleton7:50

       And everyone has that. You know, if you grow up into a family of religion or if you grow into a family of different beliefs and cultures you, you tend to take them on. Even relationships. You know, we look at relationships of, like, that's how mom and dad interact and you kind of carry that throughout your life and it's not until you get into relationships as an adult and you're like, "Oh, you can do it differently."

   16. JSJay Shetty8:08

       Mm.

   17. CAChris Appleton8:08

       You know? And they're all the lessons we learn as adults. But not everyone is like, I guess, aware of that. Ev- not everyone is aware is you can change the story.

   18. JSJay Shetty8:17

       Yeah.

   19. CAChris Appleton8:17

       Um, and there's a real freedom to doing that.

   20. JSJay Shetty8:19

       Yeah. I wanna go down two paths based on what you said.

   21. CAChris Appleton8:21

       Yeah.

   22. JSJay Shetty8:21

       But the first path before we go down the other, because the other will lead to more different opportunities to talk about. But the first part is you said you wanted to become the best as soon as you discovered-

   23. CAChris Appleton8:32

       Yeah

   24. JSJay Shetty8:32

       ... that you could do hair. And you're like, "I'm gonna become really good at this."

   25. CAChris Appleton8:35

       Yeah.

   26. JSJay Shetty8:36

       What did it take to become the best at what you do? Because you are. You work with the best. You're considered the best by the people that you serve. What did that take? Because I think often when we look at athletes or you look at business, there's people who've told those stories but when you take something as artistic as hair-

   27. CAChris Appleton8:57

       Yeah

   28. JSJay Shetty8:57

       ... we don't necessarily think about it in the same way.

   29. CAChris Appleton9:00

       Totally.

   30. JSJay Shetty9:00

       At least publicly.
4. 10:11 – 14:32

   What It Actually Takes to Become the Best

   1. CAChris Appleton10:11

      and there's... Y- and every, every kind of block was like a beginning again because no one really kind of like... If you're a salon hairdresser you're just a salon hairdresser. You can't be a fashion hairdresser. You know, they kind of-- there's a little bit of competition.

   2. JSJay Shetty10:22

      Yeah, people like to box you.

   3. CAChris Appleton10:22

      Yeah, totally. It's like, you know, people love to put you in a box. All my life people loved to, to put me in a box. Still to today I'm always trying to fight being put in a box. I don't know if you can relate to that but-

   4. JSJay Shetty10:31

      I can so relate.

   5. CAChris Appleton10:32

      I think a lot of people just love to put you where they know you can stay and I, I just pushed myself to know every aspect and if I didn't know what it was, I remember for example I eventually got an editorial job and they wanted a look that I just didn't know how to do and I, I just got in a car, I took myself to this local salon and she did this, it was like this, this like weaving technique of, it's called a basket weave and like I would sit there and watch her and just pay this woman to sit and watch and I'd sit with a doll's head up all night. I don't know, I just, I think I just went above and beyond. I loved what I did. I, I still love what I do and I just... I think that combined with again a bit of a blessing and a curse, like a little bit of an OCD mentality where I wanted it to be good and I could see things. I, I, I don't just let things go. I can see every detail and every little hair and I think that combined and just the passion to wanna be good at something just pushed me. And it's funny now because it's, it's only now, I'm 42 and I look back at videos. I recently just put some things on social media because someone came from the UK with a big box of DVDs.

   6. JSJay Shetty11:31

      [laughs]

   7. CAChris Appleton11:31

      And even I forgot-

   8. JSJay Shetty11:33

      Yeah

   9. CAChris Appleton11:33

      ... what I did to get to where I've got. Every competition I did and I didn't win and failed and every, you know, educational thing that I failed because of my dyslexia, I just kept bouncing back and the nos. I had people laugh in my face. You know, I remember eventually I got an agent and I was so excited about the next steps and they'd laugh at me. They were like, "You know, you just need to stay where you are and keep it real." And they'd send me on a photo shoot for some flip-flop commercial. I, I, I just would-- I didn't care. I was just determined and I think you have to have that resilience along the way. I think you really have to have that internal resilience to stay focused and um, it's not-- it was never one thing. It was just lots of little leapfrog moments.

   10. JSJay Shetty12:12

       Yeah.

   11. CAChris Appleton12:12

       Um, everyone thinks it's this big moment. It really isn't. It's just a build. But I would say one of my-Biggest secrets to success in that area was just to be consistent. I stayed consistent, and when I got knocked down, I got back up and I carried on.

   12. JSJay Shetty12:26

       Yeah.

   13. CAChris Appleton12:26

       And I tried to learn by every mistake as I went along. You know, if I, if I failed, I was like, "Why did I fail? And that person went, why did that person get it and I didn't?" I would look and an-analyze the situation and I'd come back.

   14. JSJay Shetty12:36

       Yeah.

   15. CAChris Appleton12:36

       And I, I think that's a lot of what it takes.

   16. JSJay Shetty12:39

       Yeah, absolutely. It's good advice. It's also good to hear that there's no industry in which you just one day get a call from, [laughs] you know-

   17. CAChris Appleton12:46

       Totally

   18. JSJay Shetty12:46

       ... the biggest star in the world. It's like everyone's earned their stripes and done the work, and-

   19. CAChris Appleton12:50

       100%

   20. JSJay Shetty12:50

       ... it's good to hear about it, whether it's podcasting, whether it's hair, whether it's music and athletes that we've had. It's, it's always that. You always hear that same story. But going back to England and talking about the derogatory use of the term gay-

   21. CAChris Appleton13:04

       Mm.

   22. JSJay Shetty13:05

       I mean, I went to a boys' school.

   23. CAChris Appleton13:06

       Okay.

   24. JSJay Shetty13:06

       And I think about all the guys at my school that got so bullied-

   25. CAChris Appleton13:11

       Really?

   26. JSJay Shetty13:11

       ... because we went to a boys' school as well.

   27. CAChris Appleton13:13

       Yeah. Exactly.

   28. JSJay Shetty13:14

       And, and-

   29. CAChris Appleton13:14

       Yeah, it's like fixated on it

   30. JSJay Shetty13:15

       ... and now when I look at how many guys in my school were gay but never came out until years later-
5. 14:32 – 17:27

   Finding Yourself After an Identity Crisis

   1. CAChris Appleton14:32

      I really did abandon myself and I think I just, I shut it out. I didn't even allow myself to think about it. It was before sexuality was e- I was even thinking-

   2. JSJay Shetty14:40

      Yeah

   3. CAChris Appleton14:40

      ... about having sex. Like, so anything like that, I just knew it was bad and I just pushed it away. So I went through my life, like I said, trying to just be normal. And, and as far as I was aware, I was fine. And it's not until you really... You have these moments where you stop at life, life makes you stop sometimes. If you don't choose to stop and look in the mirror, sometimes life makes you stop. It's an, you know, some- you're losing a family member. I don't, it can be anything, but sometimes you, you have to sit with yourself. And, um, I don't know that I ever allowed myself to know.

   4. JSJay Shetty15:09

      Mm.

   5. CAChris Appleton15:10

      Um, I never had the space to express that. And that's why I'm hoping with, like, the book that I can help someone that feels not seen and someone that is going through a hard time, or someone that is successful but miserable when they get home.

   6. JSJay Shetty15:24

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CAChris Appleton15:24

      Because I never got that opportunity, and finding that makes such a difference. It makes a, a difference in the job you do, the relationships you have, the friendships you have, and just generally who you are as a person.

   8. JSJay Shetty15:35

      I think that's what people don't realize. I love that point you just made, that it actually impacts all other parts of your self-expression.

   9. CAChris Appleton15:42

      Ah, it's crazy.

   10. JSJay Shetty15:43

       Because it is your identity. It's, it's-

   11. CAChris Appleton15:44

       It's crazy

   12. JSJay Shetty15:45

       ... it's who you are, and so if you're hiding that part, you're hiding all these other skills and talents and abilities. I, I know because one of my closest friends came out when he was 30.

   13. CAChris Appleton15:55

       Yeah.

   14. JSJay Shetty15:56

       And he just, and he grew up in a Muslim, uh, background, and so that was extremely hard for him-

   15. CAChris Appleton16:01

       Totally

   16. JSJay Shetty16:02

       ... because of the religious pressure, and it was such a journey for him, and he thinks about who he became after that age.

   17. CAChris Appleton16:08

       100%.

   18. JSJay Shetty16:08

       And it's almost like everything went in his favor after that.

   19. CAChris Appleton16:10

       Yeah.

   20. JSJay Shetty16:11

       Whereas up until that point, it always felt like everything was working against him. But he, like you, also felt that he had to hide and, and, you know, not be honest with himself.

   21. CAChris Appleton16:19

       Yeah. I think my whole life changed. When I authentically... And it took a few years to get to that point. It took therapy, it took understanding, it took being with myself. But part of that was moving to LA, and I think the great thing about moving to LA was I, I didn't feel any shame.

   22. JSJay Shetty16:35

       Mm.

   23. CAChris Appleton16:36

       Because I'm also a dad, and I hold that very close to my heart. It's m- my biggest focus in life is being a great dad to two kids, and any parent out there can connect to that. I will always put them before myself. The difficulty with shame is it's very different, difficult to heal when I wasn't just feeling my shame, I was feeling shame for them. I was feeling shame. Yeah, I, I felt a lot of shame. And moving to America, the part of it that became easier is 'cause i- an introduction could be like, "Hey, I'm Chris," and it's like, "I'm gay," you know? And, and no one blinks an eyelid. But where I grew up in the town where people knew me, "Hey, I'm Chris," and it's like, I, I didn't feel confident to say I was gay, and if I did, they'd be like, "Oh, he used to be str- he's got a family, he's got kids. Oh, my God." You know, and there was always this secret, this conversation.

   24. JSJay Shetty17:21

       Mm.

   25. CAChris Appleton17:21

       There was just this, it felt dark still. It still felt like people wanted to keep putting me back in the box. So,

6. 17:27 – 20:15

   Letting Go of Shame to Be Your True Self

   1. CAChris Appleton17:27

      you know, it was kind of part of moving to America was the first time that I could experience what it was really like to come out without all of the outside noise because I'd already made a life for myself.

   2. JSJay Shetty17:37

      Yeah.

   3. CAChris Appleton17:38

      And you know, it, I get it. Peop- when there's a secret, people wanna talk. People love to... You know, when, when there's a secret, people wanna know the answer to it. [gentle music] I took the tablets and drank the alcohol. I rang Kate, and I apologized for the pain that I'd caused. I just said, "I'm sorry." And I closed my eyes. I just thought, "This is it. This is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore," you know? "I won't bring any more pain, and maybe I'll stop hurting, too." But I just remember thinking, "Well, what about if I just surrender? What about if I'm just gay and I just be that?"

   4. JSJay Shetty18:18

      Talk to me about that time in your life, because when you started dating the mother of your children-

   5. CAChris Appleton18:22

      Yeah

   6. JSJay Shetty18:23

      ... and that experience, you were married for what, like ten years?

   7. CAChris Appleton18:25

      Yeah, nine years. Yeah.

   8. JSJay Shetty18:26

      Nine years. Yeah. So it was a, it's a, it's a long period of time.

   9. CAChris Appleton18:29

      We were never married, but we were, yeah, nine years and-

   10. JSJay Shetty18:31

       Together. Committed. Yeah

   11. CAChris Appleton18:32

       ... yeah, I mean, it was ama-- I generally believe I was meant to meet Kate. We were together for nine years, and it was m-magical nine years. It was great. I had two kids, and I honestly thought I had it all figured out. I remember at the weekend I'd be doing, I'd be doing the man's day. I'd be painting the fence. I'd be, like, fixing th- you know, I was just doing all the things that I thought I was supposed to do as a man. And when I did realize I was gay, I mean, God, it came crashing down, you know, hard.

   12. JSJay Shetty18:57

       What, what do you think it was about that moment that allowed you to be conscious that you were? Like you said, for so long, you were hiding it, you were suppressing it, you were putting it aside. You're doing all the, quote-unquote, "things you're meant to do as a man." What was it that brought that up for you when you felt like-- like you just said, you felt like you'd figured it all out. Your two beautiful kids you loved, you know, a partner that you loved.

   13. CAChris Appleton19:17

       Because, because from the age of eight to the age of twenty-seven, I'd held my breath, and I could finally exhale. I couldn't hold my breath anymore. I, I couldn't do it. I tried. I kept trying to like... and I, I couldn't. And once I put my, my tiptoes into breathing and how good that felt, I, I couldn't stop it. But then came the shame of like, well, I'm gonna hurt all these people I've created this life with. So I kept pulling back until I just had to let go.

   14. JSJay Shetty19:46

       How long did you carry that, that shame of, I know, but I don't wanna tell them because it will hurt them and break what they've built?

   15. CAChris Appleton19:53

       Once I knew, I had an experience which I talk a bit about in the book.

   16. JSJay Shetty19:58

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   17. CAChris Appleton19:59

       And it wasn't anything heavy, but I was... I sat-- When I was a kid, I was sat down. I grew up in Northern England. There wasn't... well, middle to north, and it was kind of n- there wa-- gay, being gay wasn't really a thing. There was a gay pub in town, but it was on the outskirts, and

7. 20:15 – 22:46

   Accepting and Embracing Your Gender Identity

   1. CAChris Appleton20:15

      the men that went were quite flamboyant. It wasn't really spoken about. Um, Princess Diana was on the news shaking a man with AIDS without gloves, and that was headline news because, you know, they're like, "Could she get AIDS from shaking this man's hand?" People didn't know enough about it, and they knew about AIDS, and it was kinda told to me that gay men get AIDS. So I was also fearful of that. Uh, someone who's prone to OCD, like I, I just felt very conscious of that. So I had an experience that I kinda met someone, we became friends, and it never really went beyond friendship. But he told me one day that he was HIV positive. I remember... He w- didn't even live near me. We, we had a phone call conversation daily. But I became friends with him, and I ki-- it was the first time that I was kinda like, "I like this guy."

   2. JSJay Shetty20:59

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CAChris Appleton20:59

      "Like, I, I really like him." And I, I kinda was trying to understand it, so it was a slow process. And then he told me he had HIV, and I was like, "Well, I can't. I've-- I'm good. I'm, I'm absolutely good." So I literally just cut it off. And even though I hadn't done anything, I felt like, "Oh my God, could I get HIV? Is this a thing?" I don't know. It was really, really scary. And then I guess over the process of the next year, I think once, like I say, you kind of put your foot in the water, it was just, uh, it was hard to go back. And then once I actually did meet someone, yeah, that was it. There was, there was no going back.

   4. JSJay Shetty21:28

      That period of your life, I can imagine, is when you look back at it now, is probably one of the most difficult times because it's almost like, oh, wow-

   5. CAChris Appleton21:36

      No, it got, it got way harder.

   6. JSJay Shetty21:37

      Yeah. [chuckles] W-which we'll get to, but-

   7. CAChris Appleton21:39

      Yeah

   8. JSJay Shetty21:39

      ... but that moment of I can finally be honest with myself, but I don't know how to be honest with the people that I love.

   9. CAChris Appleton21:47

      Totally. Yeah.

   10. JSJay Shetty21:47

       That's like a... There, there's one thing of like, "Oh, wow, I can finally be honest with myself." That's huge.

   11. CAChris Appleton21:53

       Yeah.

   12. JSJay Shetty21:54

       But then it's always harder when you're trying to express it to other people, I imagine.

   13. CAChris Appleton21:58

       Hundred percent. Yeah.

   14. JSJay Shetty21:58

       What was it like telling your partner at the time?

   15. CAChris Appleton22:02

       I told initially my partner and, um, that was a process. And I also had to respect that she needed to go through her own grief. Um-

   16. JSJay Shetty22:11

       Were you aware of that at the time when you told her?

   17. CAChris Appleton22:13

       Yeah.

   18. JSJay Shetty22:14

       Yeah. Wow. That's mature.

   19. CAChris Appleton22:16

       'Cause I loved her. I really loved her. And I didn't wanna be gay. I didn't want to be different. I, I was-- I went back to being the kid at school. But once I told her, I kinda just went on automatic. I told my family, and everyone needed to process it the way they needed to process it, and I, I just had to be respectful of that. You have to let people go through their own grief. I can't control their emotions, nor do I want to. I think it's really important for people to feel and go through the process.

8. 22:46 – 30:21

   How to Come Out Without Hurting the People You Love

   1. CAChris Appleton22:46

      But the hardest part was telling my kids, and I think mentally for me, I couldn't really ever get my head around that. I've never actually spoke about this. I didn't think I ever would. But I do feel ready. I, I feel ready to talk to people 'cause I feel like hopefully it will help someone else that's going through a difficult time. But my job as a dad, I felt, was to protect my kids. Um, going through what I went through as a kid, being bullied, was horrible. My childhood was ar-- a lot of memories are not great ones. So the idea of bringing that to my kids was really painful, to feel that they would get bullied 'cause their dad was gay. I know the things that kids say, and I know how mean they can be, and I just didn't want them to ever have that shame that was put on me onto them. And in a way, I felt like a, I felt like a disease. I felt like it was like a cancer. I wanted to cut it out of me. I was like, if I could just get rid of that, then I could just be a normal dad for them, 'cause that's what they need, you know? I just wa- I just... I felt so selfish putting myself first. So eventually people started to talk, as they do. It was a small town, and, um, me and Kate decided to tell the kids. So I couldn't even say the words, and I think maybe a lot of people can relate to this. Initially, saying the words, "I'm gay," is a challenge because once those words are out, it's, it's done. I actually didn't say it. The mother of, uh, Kate's mom actually said it. And then I just saw these two beautiful kids who were like six and eight, and they were just, they were upset 'cause they knew I was upset, and they were confused. And all of a sudden, I just felt like I'd, I felt like I'd just messed their life up.And I felt like I'd failed as a dad because my job was to protect them, and if anyone ever hurt them, I would protect them. But I was the one hurting them, and I couldn't understand that. I also just couldn't hide I was gay anymore. I was so exhausted from it. So after telling them, uh, it-- just the confusion killed me, and my son said to me, "You know, uh, does that mean you're gonna, you know, have your, your arm like this?" Like 'cause he was so young and innocent, and kids at school would-

   2. JSJay Shetty24:58

      Wow.

   3. CAChris Appleton24:58

      Do-- or there was already things-

   4. JSJay Shetty25:01

      Wow. Yeah

   5. CAChris Appleton25:01

      ... said, you know? And I was like, "No, you know, I, I'm just me. I'm, I'm just the same. I'm not gonna change." But that, that, "Are you gonna change? Are you gonna be different?" Yeah, I kind of just shut down and, um, I left, and I left not because I was afraid, but I, I left because I felt so much shame. And I got in the car. I drove for a couple of hours. I drove for quite a long time. It felt like five minutes. I just felt like I needed to get away from them. I just, I felt like a, I was contagious. And I... Sorry, I've not really spoke about this before, so.

   6. JSJay Shetty25:34

      You don't need to be sorry.

   7. CAChris Appleton25:36

      Um-

   8. JSJay Shetty25:36

      Take your time.

   9. CAChris Appleton25:38

      Yeah. So I, I felt like it would be better for them to have a dad that was dead than a dad that was gay. And so I, I brought some painkillers, I brought a bottle of alcohol, and I checked myself into a hotel. And the whole time I had a picture of the kids, um, it was like this computer case it had, and they're smiling on it. They wrote a message on it. So I, it was silly. It was just a little computer case, but I was just holding it the whole time. Uh, I'd slept with it a lot throughout that period. Just, I just wanted to protect them, you know? And, um, I took the tablets and drank the alcohol. I rang Kate, and I apologized for the pain that I'd caused. And I closed my eyes, and I just thought, "This is it. This is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore, you know? I won't bring any more pain, and maybe I'll stop hurting too." The rest was a blur. I remember sirens and stuff and, um, I just then remember being in hospital, and I could hear voices and I remember thinking, "Was it-- is this it? I, I mi-- you know, where am I?" And something changed then. Um, and it was really powerful because I realized I couldn't hate myself any more than I had, and I couldn't try and stop being gay anymore. I'd done everything with my power. I spent my whole life creating a different world that I thought everyone wanted me to be and tick all the boxes, but I knew I had to reveal the truth. And so in that moment, it was really quiet. It wasn't dramatic, but I just remember thinking, "Well, what about if I just surrender? What about if I'm just gay and I just be that, and I don't really know where to begin with it, and I don't know where it's gonna lead me, but it has to be better than what I've been doing." And in that moment, something changed. I decided to live, and I think that's the moment where I went back to that eight-year-old boy standing at the window and allowed himself to be seen. That was the beginning of it all, really. So although it was one of the darkest nights of my life, I think it was a turning point. And like I say, it's not something I take lightly. I think it's, it's, it's not something I've ever spoken about, but I hope other people in watching this can maybe feel heard or seen and find the help they need. Or even maybe it's a parent that is struggling understanding their child to understand how dark it can be when you're left in silence and when you don't get to express who you truly are, or even if it's the kid that did the bullying at school and see how painful it can really be for someone.

   10. JSJay Shetty28:37

       Yeah. Chris, thank you for sharing that because-

   11. CAChris Appleton28:38

       Yeah

   12. JSJay Shetty28:38

       ... it's-

   13. CAChris Appleton28:39

       I just didn't feel like I could write a book talking about my story. I think there's this perception of me that people see on social media, and it looks like I have my life together. It looks like I, I look pretty polished. I think people tell me that, you know, I mean, I work with amazing women, you know, and life looks glamorous, and from the outside, it probably looks like I've got it all together. But there's a very different side, and that's what I wanna talk to people about, and that's what I wanna help people with. And it's not just about my journey, it's about helping people realize theirs.

   14. JSJay Shetty29:10

       Yeah, no, I really appreciate you sharing it because we're seeing male suicide rise.

   15. CAChris Appleton29:16

       Yeah.

   16. JSJay Shetty29:17

       We know that carrying around emotions like shame and guilt for long periods of time is not healthy for someone, even if they don't, you know, try to commit suicide. And I think having people like yourself who've been there, who are h- open enough to share how you get there, and i-it's needed right now.

   17. CAChris Appleton29:37

       Totally.

   18. JSJay Shetty29:37

       It's needed right now. It'll help a lot of men, right?

   19. CAChris Appleton29:39

       Yeah, I hope so.

   20. JSJay Shetty29:39

       A lot of people, but definitely a lot of men right now who need it as well, so.

   21. CAChris Appleton29:43

       And I think also just like stereotypes and boxes that we love to put people in, it's like y-you don't have to fit a particular mold.

   22. JSJay Shetty29:49

       Mm.

   23. CAChris Appleton29:49

       I think you are who you are, and you should have time and space to develop that and what it is. And, and I'm someone that spent my life trying to avoid that, and then I had to do the really painful part of unpicking it and finding out what I'd created for everyone else and what was truly me.

   24. JSJay Shetty30:05

       Mm.

   25. CAChris Appleton30:06

       When I did that, there was a peace to it.

   26. JSJay Shetty30:08

       Were you relieved when you woke up in the hospital?

   27. CAChris Appleton30:10

       Yeah. I mean, I, I don't think I ever wanted to die. I wanted to kill the thing that-

   28. JSJay Shetty30:14

       Mm

   29. CAChris Appleton30:14

       ... I felt was destructing my life and the thing that made me feel different as a kid, the thing that made me not blend in with all the other boys and girls.

9. 30:21 – 33:10

   Choosing Inner Peace Over the Deepest Pain

   1. CAChris Appleton30:21

      Like, I wasn't like all the regular guys, and I wanted toNot be different.

   2. JSJay Shetty30:26

      Mm.

   3. CAChris Appleton30:27

      Now I love being different. You know, as an adult now, I've realized the beauty in being different. It's such a special thing to be able to have that talent, to be different, to, to let it grow. And when it's not suppressed, my God, like your whole world can change. My whole, whole world really did change, and it can be such a beautiful thing. And I'm not talking about success, I'm talking about inner happiness. You know, there's a lot of successful people out there, and they're not happy. You know, a lot of people... Some unsuccessful people and they're not happy. I think true happiness on the inside is really, I don't know, it's a really powerful tool.

   4. JSJay Shetty30:56

      How did your family react to obviously coming to the hospital, the kids? Like, now it was almost like there was, in that time, the first shock that you're gay, and then there's this shock of nearly losing you or-

   5. CAChris Appleton31:10

      Yeah

   6. JSJay Shetty31:10

      ... there being a critical situation. How did you, how did Katie, the kids, and family react?

   7. CAChris Appleton31:15

      Jay, I don't think there was really ever an understanding. [laughs] I don't think anyone really knew. I think everyone was just trying to get through it. 'Cause everyone was trying to process it themselves. I think everyone had questions and everyone was like, "Well, did he always know?" And like, "Was that my fault?" And, "Did I say something when he was a kid?" And, "When I told him about, like, gay men and sexuality," and I think a lot of people were questioning, I don't know, did they know? Did they see something? And I think everyone was just trying to process something. It didn't really matter to me in terms of, like, that was the time I came back to myself, so there was, there was a change in my brain where I really just was like, "I'm gonna allow myself to be, and I'm gonna be respectful of everyone else, and I'm gonna be supportive 'cause it's just who I am. But I'm gonna be, you know, I'm gonna be. I'm gonna allow Chris to be, and, and I am a gay man and that's it."

   8. JSJay Shetty32:00

      And I imagine at that time, the shame that had been hanging over, obviously the kids went back to school. They were-

   9. CAChris Appleton32:05

      Yeah

   10. JSJay Shetty32:06

       ... now hearing the same stuff. It's almost like you said, everyone wants the answer to the secret, now the secret's out.

   11. CAChris Appleton32:11

       Totally. People love a secret.

   12. JSJay Shetty32:13

       Yeah.

   13. CAChris Appleton32:13

       People love gossip. You know, I get it. Like, we all do it. Everyone loves to, "Oh, what did you hear?" You know? But I think once the secret's out, people are like, "Oh, well, you know." It's just not as exciting. It's like, "All right, well."

   14. JSJay Shetty32:23

       And so you felt that-

   15. CAChris Appleton32:24

       It's okay, we get it

   16. JSJay Shetty32:24

       ... kind of-

   17. CAChris Appleton32:24

       Yeah

   18. JSJay Shetty32:24

       ... you were able to move on from it too.

   19. CAChris Appleton32:26

       Absolutely. And it's, listen, it wasn't an overnight sense. It was a-

   20. JSJay Shetty32:29

       Of course not

   21. CAChris Appleton32:29

       ... it was just a mental change for me. I still had to go through the process, um-

   22. JSJay Shetty32:32

       What was that process like? Because it's like, like you said, you bottled it up for that many years. It comes out in this extremely dark way for you personally.

   23. CAChris Appleton32:42

       Yeah.

   24. JSJay Shetty32:43

       Shame, guilt. Thankfully, you're still alive.

   25. CAChris Appleton32:46

       Yeah.

   26. JSJay Shetty32:47

       But what did that process actually look like? Because like you just said, and I don't want anyone to hear this and go, "Yeah. Oh, wow, one night, just changed."

   27. CAChris Appleton32:55

       Totally.

   28. JSJay Shetty32:55

       You know, like I don't want them-

   29. CAChris Appleton32:56

       No

   30. JSJay Shetty32:56

       ... to have that perspective either because-
10. 33:10 – 36:40

    Rebuilding Yourself After Grief and Collapse

    1. JSJay Shetty33:10

       of it, they'll get the context that you want people to realize, like this wasn't an overnight change. It wasn't a one night-

    2. CAChris Appleton33:17

       No

    3. JSJay Shetty33:17

       ... switch.

    4. CAChris Appleton33:17

       100%.

    5. JSJay Shetty33:18

       But walk me through the process you had to go through over the next few months and years to rebuild, because you said you almost came home to yourself.

    6. CAChris Appleton33:26

       Totally.

    7. JSJay Shetty33:26

       But then you had to build this new house.

    8. CAChris Appleton33:28

       Like anything, starting anything new, it's, it, the unknown. And so I think I took every day a- as it came, every hour as it came. I've always been a big believer in therapy. I think it's so helpful to be able to-

    9. JSJay Shetty33:41

       Absolutely

    10. CAChris Appleton33:41

        ... and I think it's, I also think it's something that if someone is struggling, that if you can and you have the resources to, you should use, because I think it's a really healthy way of being able to be and really be in the moment and really feel things. And I think working with therapists to try and understand, even making sure my kids were okay with them seeing a therapist, and Kate did. You know, I, I think everyone was on their own journey. But personally for me, it was just taking every day as it came, and there were good days, and there were bad days. And there were days that I still felt really shameful, and there were days I didn't feel so shameful. But I think as with anything and when you're grieving something, and it, I really was grieving a loss. It was 'cause I was grieving the loss of who I used to be. And so in a way it was like a death, because I was letting go of that. I was letting go of this image that I'd created, this man that I'd created.

    11. JSJay Shetty34:29

        And what came with that man.

    12. CAChris Appleton34:30

        What came with that.

    13. JSJay Shetty34:30

        The family, the ki- yeah.

    14. CAChris Appleton34:31

        Exactly. And so then I had to... You don't have it all figured out. I'll be honest with you though, Jay, I still don't have it all figured out. I wake up every day and I'm still figuring it out. I think as humans we are. I'm grateful for that, 'cause that means I'm always learning and I'm always growing. And if I'm growing, then that, that, that makes me feel happy 'cause I'm alive.

    15. JSJay Shetty34:47

        Yeah.

    16. CAChris Appleton34:47

        You know? W- no one ever has it all figured out.

    17. JSJay Shetty34:49

        Me too.

    18. CAChris Appleton34:50

        Exactly.

    19. JSJay Shetty34:50

        I fully agree. I don't, I mean-

    20. CAChris Appleton34:51

        People think 'cause you've got a book-

    21. JSJay Shetty34:53

        Yeah

    22. CAChris Appleton34:53

        ... or 'cause you've had some success at work or, you know, you've got it all figured out. No one's got it all figured out.

    23. JSJay Shetty34:58

        Yeah.

    24. CAChris Appleton34:58

        But I think for me, I've always been really interested in other people's journeys of, and inspiration and understanding how someone else took on. And i- it, listen, my journey's not for everyone. Everyone's different and everyone has their own journey. But sometimes you can just take something from it and, you know, for me, that's why I did the book, was I, I was trying to help people come back to themselves and, um, I don't think I can do that if I'm not telling them my story.

    25. JSJay Shetty35:24

        Yeah.

    26. CAChris Appleton35:25

        You know?

    27. JSJay Shetty35:25

        Yeah.

    28. CAChris Appleton35:25

        To say I had a really dark moment too.

    29. JSJay Shetty35:28

        Yeah.

    30. CAChris Appleton35:28

        A lot of people have had dark moments, you know?
11. 36:40 – 39:13

    Why the Right Guidance Can Change Everything

    1. JSJay Shetty36:40

       I'm sure you felt that with your book, the more you talk about these ideas, the more responsible you feel to actually live them-

    2. CAChris Appleton36:46

       100%

    3. JSJay Shetty36:46

       ... and breathe them for yourself.

    4. CAChris Appleton36:47

       And, and honestly, I feel like if there was something like this when I was a kid, when I was that eight-year-old kid or 12-year-old kid at school, and I heard someone maybe talking about that experience, probably could've saved me going in, in the direction I did and, and made other choices, you know. But that's life.

    5. JSJay Shetty37:02

       I'm doing some research for my new book right now, and I was researching the-- I was speaking to the head of suicide at Harvard.

    6. CAChris Appleton37:07

       Yeah.

    7. JSJay Shetty37:08

       And he told me two things that stayed with me. One was that one of his friends committed suicide even though he knew his friend was the head of suicide at Harvard-

    8. CAChris Appleton37:18

       Yeah

    9. JSJay Shetty37:18

       ... but never told him anything. And so it just shows how hard it is to even talk about it with someone-

    10. CAChris Appleton37:24

        100%

    11. JSJay Shetty37:24

        ... even though your, your friend is an expert.

    12. CAChris Appleton37:26

        Yeah.

    13. JSJay Shetty37:26

        And so just because you're a therapist or a coach or a guide or, it's not easy for people to open up about these things.

    14. CAChris Appleton37:32

        No. I've found it incredibly difficult to sort of just talk about it. But I hope that in doing so, that it will help someone else.

    15. JSJay Shetty37:39

        Yeah. Yeah.

    16. CAChris Appleton37:39

        Um, and it's not to say any of the things I've done are right or wrong, but it was my journey, and it led me to where I'm at now, and I think if we can take some of the shame away from people struggling in life and, you know. I think someone like me, where people perceive me to have it all figured out, maybe to know that I've not and there's been some really hard times in my life enables people to be able to talk about theirs too and feel free to be able to express some of that.

    17. JSJay Shetty38:04

        Yeah, and it doesn't-

    18. CAChris Appleton38:04

        And that there isn't so much shame around it.

    19. JSJay Shetty38:06

        Yeah, it doesn't make you weak.

    20. CAChris Appleton38:07

        Yeah, exactly.

    21. JSJay Shetty38:08

        Yeah, it doesn't make you weak that you're having a tough time right now or you're struggling to pay the bills.

    22. CAChris Appleton38:13

        No. 100%.

    23. JSJay Shetty38:13

        Or you're struggling to take care of the family you love.

    24. CAChris Appleton38:16

        And everyone's challenge is different, you know, and that's the beautiful thing of life.

    25. JSJay Shetty38:20

        Did any men come back from your childhood over time that you feel reconciled their relationship with you or talk to you about it differently?

    26. CAChris Appleton38:30

        You mean like the people, the bullies or whatever or?

    27. JSJay Shetty38:31

        Bullies or even, yeah, bullies, family, like anyone that you think was negligent maybe or unaware at that time. Did, did you ever have any good conversations with any men as life went on?

    28. CAChris Appleton38:42

        My brother actually is, actually recently. We were very different. He was in a very different place in his life, and I was just a kid trying to grow up. You know, he was a good 10 years older than me, maybe, maybe 12 years, no he's 12 years older than me. He actually met me in London. I was there for some shoot, and he said, "I wanted to meet you." And I'm like, "All right, well, okay." [chuckles] So we met and had dinner, and he actually apologized, and he sat down, and he said, "You know, I was really shit to you. I was really shitty, brother, and I, I don't think I realized how much pain you were in." And, um, I think he was in his own pain 'cause everyone's got their own journey.

    29. JSJay Shetty39:11

        Mm.

    30. CAChris Appleton39:11

        And you know, I

12. 39:13 – 39:30

    Struggling Doesn’t Mean You’re Weak

    1. CAChris Appleton39:13

       found forgiveness in that. I found forgiveness, and it was actually really, really special. Like I say, that's what I mean. It wasn't an overnight thing. This is literally 10 years later, like, my brother's apologized. But I also am mature enough and have done the work enough to recognize that he was going through a difficult time. He used drugs, and

13. 39:30 – 41:15

    Forgiveness: Freeing Yourself from the Past

    1. CAChris Appleton39:30

       he was going through his own thing. But, you know, he- his sort of acknowledgement of that still stopped me in my tracks and was like, yeah, that was tough, but I forgive you. And I think forgiveness is also a beautiful thing and letting go and, and moving on.

    2. JSJay Shetty39:43

       Yeah. I mean-

    3. CAChris Appleton39:43

       I like to move on. I li- I like to go right through something and then let it go, and I think that's a beautiful thing. It's brutal. It's really hard. So easy to avoid. So many people avoid stuff, complete avoid and completely just, let's pretend it's not happening. But for me, what works is to really feel it and sit in it because then I feel like I can let it go.

    4. JSJay Shetty40:03

       Yeah, I mean, it's really mature to have that worldview of recognizing that everyone's going through their journey and their pain at the same time as you are.

    5. CAChris Appleton40:11

       Yeah.

    6. JSJay Shetty40:12

       And it's really hard to compare pains because y- you can't.

    7. CAChris Appleton40:16

       No.

    8. JSJay Shetty40:16

       They're, they're all so unique and different.

    9. CAChris Appleton40:18

       And everyone's valid. You know, everyone's valid.

    10. JSJay Shetty40:19

        Yeah, and everyone's got their own journey, but to accept that requires a lot of, lot of maturity and depth. How does it feel now that you've said it out loud and talked about it? How does that feel in your chest, heart, mind? Yeah.

    11. CAChris Appleton40:29

        Well, for s- [chuckles] I mean, probably as you could tell as I was talking, I was getting-

    12. JSJay Shetty40:33

        Yeah

    13. CAChris Appleton40:33

        ... quite tight chested. If I ever even really talked about it, my chest would get very tight. I'm grateful for that. I hope I never get used to it because it was a very extreme thing in my life, and I'm an emotional guy. I, I love the people I love and... But, but I've learnt not to feel shame anymore, and I think part of dealing with shame is being able to talk about it, being able to acknowledge it, being able to look at it in the mirror. And, um, I felt like sharing that is empowering to me and hopefully others.

    14. JSJay Shetty41:01

        Mm.

    15. CAChris Appleton41:02

        I feel lucky to be able to share my journey with other people.

    16. JSJay Shetty41:04

        Mm.

    17. CAChris Appleton41:04

        Hopefully, you know, someone finds it interesting or can give them a different perspective on their day and in their life. And I've done that in like a outward sense

14. 41:15 – 44:29

    Sharing Your Story Could Save Someone Else

    1. CAChris Appleton41:15

       of a visual with people know that with my job, but I think the internal part is just really where it starts.

    2. JSJay Shetty41:23

       Mm.

    3. CAChris Appleton41:23

       'Cause when you marry those together, that's when you have your real power.

    4. JSJay Shetty41:27

       I mean, as we've been talking about this in this journey, that none of us are perfect, and it still shows up. How does, how does shame still show up in your life today? Like, how does it still have that stronghold in your life today?

    5. CAChris Appleton41:38

       I, I woke up this morning. I'm like, "I cannot talk about that. I can't talk about that on the podcast." Had this complete, like, panic. I woke up this morning. I'm like, "Oh my God, I can't talk. People are gonna think I'm crazy." Like, that was a really dark time, and it was a secret. It's a secret. And then I had to stop myself, and I'm like, ah, it's a secret. It doesn't need to be. It-- I'm not that person anymore. No one is the people that we were in that time. We've all moved on and evolved, and I'm in a better place in my life now. And I think with wisdom comes, you know, like you being able to educate people and share people. That's like me in my hairdressing career, learning all these amazing techniques, keeping them all to myself. And everyone has said to me before, like, "Do you really wanna share your techniques? People might copy you." And I'm like, "Good, I hope they do. I hope they have great hair." You know, everyone, everyone deserves it.

    6. JSJay Shetty42:21

       [laughs]

    7. CAChris Appleton42:21

       I'll think of some new techniques. I'm onto the next thing.

    8. JSJay Shetty42:24

       Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

    9. CAChris Appleton42:24

       So yeah, I mean, look, we're human beings. Like I said, none of us have it figured out.

    10. JSJay Shetty42:28

        Mm.

    11. CAChris Appleton42:28

        But, um, I also have great people around me that'll be like, "Chris, remember you're helping others." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's what I wanna do."

    12. JSJay Shetty42:34

        Mm.

    13. CAChris Appleton42:34

        You know?

    14. JSJay Shetty42:34

        As your journey grew, did you find you'd share these stories with clients and talk to people that you were close to and-

    15. CAChris Appleton42:40

        No one really knows this about me, Jay.

    16. JSJay Shetty42:42

        Wow. Wow.

    17. CAChris Appleton42:42

        So I think probably a lot of people might-

    18. JSJay Shetty42:44

        Wow

    19. CAChris Appleton42:44

        ... you know, be like, "Okay, I didn't know that part of you." Because let's face it, in human interaction, most of the time it's like, "Hi, how are you? You look great. You know, can do. Oh, yeah." And then we move on.We don't always open up the blinds and-

    20. JSJay Shetty42:56

        Wow

    21. CAChris Appleton42:56

        ... you know, pull people in because it's difficult to do that.

    22. JSJay Shetty43:00

        It's difficult, yeah.

    23. CAChris Appleton43:00

        You know, even on social media, people say to me, "Oh, you know, you look like you have this polished social media. You br- bring people in more." It's difficult sometimes to do that when it's a, a camera in front of you, and I think I've always been very one-on-one. That's what I do. But that's why I wanted to package it up and put it into something that people could read and take in them- the- themselves.

    24. JSJay Shetty43:18

        Yeah. I wanna know what happened because this was all still while you were back home in England.

    25. CAChris Appleton43:22

        Yeah.

    26. JSJay Shetty43:23

        And so this isn't even the career journey that we see now. That hadn't even began then-

    27. CAChris Appleton43:29

        Yeah

    28. JSJay Shetty43:30

        ... in terms of the public part of it. How soon after did you end up moving to America and did everything shift?

    29. CAChris Appleton43:38

        I stayed in-- I, I moved to America when I was 31, so it was four years later.

    30. JSJay Shetty43:43

        Mm-hmm.
15. 44:29 – 45:06

    When a New Environment Heals Your Spirit

    1. CAChris Appleton44:29

       not your beachy wave kinda guy. I like to do a look, do the next one, move on. That's next. I was very excited by hair, and I was just posting all that. So, uh, I kind of thought, "Well, that's cool," but I'm in England, and that's Hollywood. Like that's like the land of dreams, you know. So it's far, far, far away. And, uh, they weren't gonna fly me out. So I said, "All right." Well, I just left it. And I thought, "Maybe this is just like a... Maybe it's like a fake email." You know, you get a lot of random emails.

    2. JSJay Shetty44:54

       [laughs]

    3. CAChris Appleton44:54

       "Hey, d-dear Sir, Madam, you've won 10,000." And I'm like, "Oh, have I?"

    4. JSJay Shetty44:57

       [laughs]

    5. CAChris Appleton44:57

       You know, I don't reply to them anymore.

    6. JSJay Shetty44:58

       Yeah.

    7. CAChris Appleton44:58

       But for... When I was younger, I used to.

    8. JSJay Shetty45:00

       [laughs]

    9. CAChris Appleton45:01

       So, uh, I left it, and a few months later, I got another email, and I thought, "Well, maybe this is a thing. Maybe

16. 45:06 – 47:29

    The Unexpected Call That Changed Everything

    1. CAChris Appleton45:06

       like... Maybe I could go to LA." You know, it, it, it seemed like the big shining star, and I was like, "Well, that's where a lot of stars are." And I loved the excitement. As a kid, I was always really sort of mesmerized by the power of transformation. Back then, it was Madonna. You know, she would have a different look per album, and I always loved how each look really... It, it started a trend. People would start to wear it in the streets, and it was like a whole vibe. So I thought, "Well, maybe I'll go to LA." So I pretty much decided to do it. I packed two suitcases. I had a whole apartment in London that I'd worked very hard for. It was a small basement one, but le- nevertheless, it was mine. And I packed two suitcases, and I moved to, moved to LA. And, um, you know-

    2. JSJay Shetty45:48

       Without even a plan.

    3. CAChris Appleton45:50

       No. I, I had a dream, though.

    4. JSJay Shetty45:51

       And you didn't have a client contract or-

    5. CAChris Appleton45:52

       No, nothing. I had a dream, man. I was, I was like-

    6. JSJay Shetty45:55

       How many followers did you have at this time?

    7. CAChris Appleton45:57

       4,000 or 5,000 that I-

    8. JSJay Shetty45:58

       Right. Right. Oh, wow-

    9. CAChris Appleton45:59

       ... think I had. Yeah. Nothing

    10. JSJay Shetty46:00

        ... so really early days.

    11. CAChris Appleton46:00

        Yeah, really early days. But I did have a hope, and I, I thought, "What's the worst that could happen? I'll come back if it doesn't work." So I remember I, uh, I moved to America, and for the first three or four months, I didn't do anything. I'd spent all my money. LA's really expensive, and I remember thinking, "I'm gonna have to go back home." And then I got a call to do Christina Aguilera's hair on The Voice, which I speak a little bit about in the book. It was an experience that didn't go so well. Uh, it was like my one opportunity, and it seemed to go very wrong.

    12. JSJay Shetty46:29

        You felt you didn't-

    13. CAChris Appleton46:30

        It went wrong to go right. I mean, I was such an excited guy. I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do my thing." It's The Voice. Everyone watches The Voice. But what you have to understand is when you live in the UK, it's like this many people see it. When you live in the US, it's like the world sees it. It just, it was bigger. Everything was bigger. And I remember going to The Voice, and there was like three hours to do glam. And, um, the hair- the makeup artist went inside the trailer, and I just sat outside. So I was like, "Okay, I'll just wait for a bit." And an hour went by, and I was like, "Well, maybe she don't need too much done to her hair," you know? And then two hours went by, and I'm like, "Well, maybe like the hair's probably done-

    14. JSJay Shetty47:09

        [laughs]

    15. CAChris Appleton47:10

        ... and I'm just gonna be finessing it," you know? And then the last 20 minutes before the live show, I'm like, "Well, I mean, should I just go home?" And they called me in. So I thought, "Well, you know, she's definitely got her hair done. It's gonna be good, right? 20 minutes. I mean, what else can it be?" So I go in, and it wasn't good.

17. 47:29 – 52:23

    The Hair Appointment That Almost Ended His Career

    1. CAChris Appleton47:29

       [laughs] It wasn't done. It was ready to be done. So she's like, "What do you wanna do?" And I was like, "Well, uh, what I really wanna do is have two hours to do your hair, but whatever. We've got 20 minutes."

    2. JSJay Shetty47:38

       Were they waiting for you to go in or no? They were just-

    3. CAChris Appleton47:40

       No, I think she was just, like, doing makeup, probably got chatting, and there was no ill intention, really. It was just like, whatever, you know. Like, you're in the chair every day, you know.

    4. JSJay Shetty47:48

       Yeah.

    5. CAChris Appleton47:48

       And then I, I went in. I don't know. So I did that thing that hairdressers do where you start moving the hair around. Have you ever sat in a chair and a hairdresser's just kinda like-

    6. JSJay Shetty47:54

       [laughs]

    7. CAChris Appleton47:55

       ... they're just kinda touching it and moving it around.

    8. JSJay Shetty47:56

       Dude, that, that's it. Yeah.

    9. CAChris Appleton47:57

       It's, it means we don't know what we're doing. It just-- we're kinda just like hoping something's gonna happen. So I said to her like, "Would you... Have you ever tried a wig?" 'Cause I thought that would be great 'cause it'd be fast. And she's like, "I don't like wigs." So I'm like, "Of course you don't like wigs."

    10. JSJay Shetty48:11

        [laughs]

    11. CAChris Appleton48:13

        And then I really lost myself, and I was like, "Why would you like anything I've got to do? Like, you see me. You see the little boy standing at the window. You see little Chris. Like, what the f- am I doing here? I'm a joke."

    12. JSJay Shetty48:23

        Mm.

    13. CAChris Appleton48:23

        "I'm a joke. Like who, why would, why am I..." And I felt like that shame again, and I felt small, so small. And I just had this moment. It was actually the mother of my kids, Kate, who we are still best friends, and she has always been so supportive throughout my career. I called her on the way, and she says to me, "Look, Chris, if you don't make this work, you're gonna have to come home." 'Cause I have responsibilities. I'm a dad. I have the kids, you know. And I remember just thinking, "If I don't make this work, I'm gonna have to go home." So I thought, "You know what? Let me do me, and if she doesn't like it, that's cool. We're just not a match. But if I don't do me and do everything I know, I'm 31. I've spent my whole life learning this craft."If I don't do me and walk away, I'll always kick myself. So I said, "Well, you know what? You've never tried mono wigs. Let's try it." And she was like, "All right." So I put it on her head, and she was like, "Oh." And I'd finessed wigs. I got really good at them 'cause I used to work with cancer patients, so I know all these little tricks.

    14. JSJay Shetty49:09

        Oh, wow.

    15. CAChris Appleton49:09

        I'd kind of like from one area of my life then turned into m- making me good at it for stars. And so I put it on her head, and there was no time. And she was like, "I, I like it." So I put it on, and it was like no time. She literally got up and ran off onto the, onto the show, and then she's on live TV. And you know, that was a time of social media 'cause I was also very nervous 'cause like, well, everyone's gonna have an opinion on this. And when it's good, it's great.

    16. JSJay Shetty49:30

        Yeah.

    17. CAChris Appleton49:30

        And when it's bad, it's not. [laughs]

    18. JSJay Shetty49:32

        Yeah. [laughs]

    19. CAChris Appleton49:32

        'Cause when it's n- when it's bad, you'll know about it.

    20. JSJay Shetty49:34

        Yeah, when it's good, it's okay.

    21. CAChris Appleton49:35

        Yeah, exactly.

    22. JSJay Shetty49:35

        Like, no one even say anything.

    23. CAChris Appleton49:36

        Exactly, yeah. So-

    24. JSJay Shetty49:37

        When it's bad, it's, yeah

    25. CAChris Appleton49:38

        ... it's bad. So, um, I remember she came off the stage, and she... It was like a little break, and, um, she was talking to someone like this, and she looked over at me, and she went, "Everyone likes your wig," and then just carried on talking. And in that moment, I knew that it-

    26. JSJay Shetty49:52

        [laughs]

    27. CAChris Appleton49:52

        And it was great. Like, she looked great, and then we worked together. You know, it was the beginning of my career.

    28. JSJay Shetty49:56

        I thought you were gonna tell me that the wig fell off or something. [laughs]

    29. CAChris Appleton49:57

        No, it looked great.

    30. JSJay Shetty49:58

        That would be stressful.
18. 52:23 – 55:33

    How to Build Authentic Relationships in Your Industry

    1. CAChris Appleton52:23

       Exactly, yeah.

    2. JSJay Shetty52:23

       And so you had to trust your instincts, which was, "My experience says let's go with the wig."

    3. CAChris Appleton52:27

       Yeah, totally.

    4. JSJay Shetty52:28

       Yeah. That's amazing. And then obviously you became such good friends with Kim and e- and, and everyone. It's like what's been your favorite part about building these amazing relationships? Because the work is so intimate. It is so-

    5. CAChris Appleton52:39

       Yeah

    6. JSJay Shetty52:39

       ... connected to them.

    7. CAChris Appleton52:40

       I'm so grateful to work with everyone I've worked with. I always just feel very lucky to work in their presence 'cause they're amazing at what they do. You know, they're an artist in their own. And to be a part of it, I just feel very grateful. And you know, like Kim, I've become very good friends with. I have so much respect for her. To see her up close, to see, you know, the world sees one thing.

    8. JSJay Shetty52:56

       Mm.

    9. CAChris Appleton52:56

       They see Kim Kardashian. I don't really see her like that. I see her as Kim, you know? And she is a, a mother, a, an amazing mother. She is a, a business woman. You know, to see what she did with Skims and build that, and just to see how she is with everyone that walks in the door, you know, she speaks to e- whether it's an assistant, a lighting person, what, she's, says hello to everyone, introduces herself. She doesn't have to, but she's just a great person.

    10. JSJay Shetty53:21

        Yeah, she's world-class.

    11. CAChris Appleton53:22

        A really, really great person. And so I think organically you spend so much time together with the people you work with, obviously there's a friendship there, and I'm just incredibly grateful I, I've got to work with the people that I do and, you know, see them in the light I do 'cause I guess not everyone does 'cause again, we all make assumptions. Everyone's just seen a vision or an image or a quick clip on TV or a clip here on social media, and we all make assumptions. It's what we do. It's okay. But I just feel grateful to have seen a side that maybe others haven't and, um-

    12. JSJay Shetty53:48

        Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure you get people ask you all the time-

    13. CAChris Appleton53:49

        We've done a lot of things together. [laughs]

    14. JSJay Shetty53:50

        ... what are, what are people like really? I'm sure you get that all the time from people-

    15. CAChris Appleton53:54

        Yeah

    16. JSJay Shetty53:54

        ... back at home as well, like, "Oh, what are people really like behind the camera?" And it's, I always find it so refreshing to be able to be like, "No, a lot of the people you watch are, they're actually really wonderful and nice."

    17. CAChris Appleton54:05

        Totally.

    18. JSJay Shetty54:05

        And there isn't some big conspiracy. [laughs] You know, it's just, they're just wonderful humans who are really nice, and they're really great at what they do.

    19. CAChris Appleton54:12

        At what they do.

    20. JSJay Shetty54:13

        Yeah.

    21. CAChris Appleton54:13

        Yeah, totally.

    22. JSJay Shetty54:13

        What they do. And, and yeah, they treat everyone with respect, and it, and it isn't as juicy as you want it to be.

    23. CAChris Appleton54:19

        No, totally.

    24. JSJay Shetty54:20

        Yeah. So with your journey with that piece, it feels like, I mean, you said it earlier, you were like, it only gets harder.

    25. CAChris Appleton54:27

        Yeah.

    26. JSJay Shetty54:27

        And it feels like even though now you are having this success, and that was moving fast, and you have become the person you've become, where you are the go-to person in this city, but across the States for all of these people to turn to, whether they're musicians, models, talent, and then I think now it's been, like, just a year from your divorce again.

    27. CAChris Appleton54:48

        Yeah.

    28. JSJay Shetty54:48

        And that was with a very public relationship. Was that the first time you'd had a public relationship?

    29. CAChris Appleton54:54

        It was definitely the first time that I'd experienced that-Magnitude of people being so invested in my private life

    30. JSJay Shetty55:03

        What was it like having such a public romantic relationship as someone who for years before that, let alone having a public relationship, you weren't even in a relationship with a man?
19. 55:33 – 59:09

    You Don’t Owe the Public an Explanation

    1. CAChris Appleton55:33

       I've got it all together. But the truth is, especially during that time, I was going through a lot of private pain, and then you go with all the online speculation part. People say things about you. There's things in the tabloid, and people have an opinion on your life, and that can be incredibly intense, especially when you're just trying to deal with things. I think for me, what really helped me was not being okay and, you know, I've always believed in therapy, and I worked with a therapist to really sit in my feelings and really go through them and understand how I felt. And that is really brutal to go through it. But for me, coming out the other side, there's a part of you that feels like you can, you know, reflect on it and move on. One of the biggest lessons I learned is finding alignment from... What I do is all about visual, you know, it's what I've done my whole life, and even what people see of me is this visual representation of Chris Appleton. But I think for me, there was a real peace in finding alignment and inner peace on the inside. And like I said, that wasn't an easy process. But I think when you align those two, when you genuinely feel good on the inside, I think that's when your real power comes in place. And I think, you know, just because there's a headline about you doesn't necessarily mean you have to go and explain to everyone about your life. And I think for me, I really wanted to deal with it with peace and deal with it my way. You know, that's the interesting thing about living in the public eye is people have an opinion, and that's okay. I don't mind people saying good and bad things 'cause you put yourself out into the arena, you're gonna get that. But I think for me as a dad, I wanted to protect my kids. I always wanna do that, and I'm very aware any relationship I go into, there will be conversation around that. And so I think for me, making sure that I had that internal alignment, which I never had my whole life, finding that and, and being comfortable with that and finding happiness was a really beautiful thing. And you know, you can love someone and then not be a forever happy ending. I think you learn so much from it. I think any relationship I've ever gone into, I've learned so much from it. I've learned what's important to me in terms of boundaries, in terms of how I wanna be loved, how I wanna love, and that's a beautiful thing 'cause it means you're always growing and evolving.

    2. JSJay Shetty57:57

       It was you who filed for divorce, right? Like you were the one who-

    3. CAChris Appleton58:00

       Yeah

    4. JSJay Shetty58:01

       ... ended it.

    5. CAChris Appleton58:01

       Yeah.

    6. JSJay Shetty58:02

       When you look at that in the perspective of the whole conversation that we've had and everything you've been through, I can imagine that's not easy again.

    7. CAChris Appleton58:09

       No, but I think, again, like it doesn't mean you don't learn something about yourself, and just because it's not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something. And it's a bit like gonna buy a house. Like, you know, we could go and look at houses. I particularly like bright, lots of space. I don't like confined and dark. Some people do, and that's okay. It's just not aligned.

    8. JSJay Shetty58:31

       Mm.

    9. CAChris Appleton58:32

       And I think one of the biggest things I realized about any relationship I've been into or go into is the importance of alignment, and I think for a long time I didn't have that. And I think finding that within myself has been special. It's, it's about growth, and like I say, as long as I'm growing and evolving-

    10. JSJay Shetty58:48

        Yeah

    11. CAChris Appleton58:48

        ... then I'm alive, and that, that feels great.

    12. JSJay Shetty58:50

        Why do you think you didn't have that alignment maybe when you met and because it moved fast, right?

    13. CAChris Appleton58:55

        Look, moving fast doesn't always mean you're reckless. I think sometimes it means you're hopeful.

    14. JSJay Shetty58:59

        Mm.

    15. CAChris Appleton59:00

        And I think any relationship I've ever been into, I've gone into with an open heart, and I have no regrets about that. I think we shame people too

20. 59:09 – 1:01:48

    Why Love Is Always Worth the Risk

    1. CAChris Appleton59:09

       much for leading with an open heart, and I think the sad part about that-

    2. JSJay Shetty59:12

       Mm-hmm

    3. CAChris Appleton59:12

       ... especially when it doesn't work out, and I think the sad part about that is you can learn to retract and protect yourself. But I would rather love and fall than to never feel anything at all, and I think I'd rather experience something and feel alive than to never put my foot out in the water. And I think as long as you're growing and evolving from it, and things don't always go to plan, I think as long as you go through it and go through the process of healing, I think that's really important-

    4. JSJay Shetty59:44

       Mm-hmm

    5. CAChris Appleton59:44

       ... then I think you're doing all you can. I don't know.

    6. JSJay Shetty59:46

       Yeah.

    7. CAChris Appleton59:46

       I, I feel like I, I felt, like, a responsibility to just really look at everything. As any situation I've ever been in, I've always tried to look back and reflect of, like, do I feel alive? I'm happy with where I'm at in my life, how it is visually, and how I feel internally.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:00:00

       Mm.

    9. CAChris Appleton1:00:00

       And you know, if not, being able to sit in that and, and sit with it and process it and go through it has been a really magical part 'cause it doesn't really matter what anyone else says.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:00:10

        Yeah.

    11. CAChris Appleton1:00:10

        I know my truth, and I, I feel happy.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:00:13

        Yeah.

    13. CAChris Appleton1:00:14

        I, I really value the people that are in my life. I have an amazing family. I've worked really hard for my career. I love the people. I have a supportive family, and I'm really grateful for that.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:00:22

        Yeah.

    15. CAChris Appleton1:00:22

        An ending doesn't mean it, it didn't mean anything. It just means it ended, you know?

    16. JSJay Shetty1:00:27

        Yeah.

    17. CAChris Appleton1:00:28

        As many relationships I've been through in my life, friendships, relationships, they've ended, and I've tried to learn something f- each time from that experience.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:00:37

        Yeah. I really appreciate your take on not closing off and not kinda building a wall to... And you are right. We do make people feel bad for falling in love or moving fast or whatever it may be. And, and I think also coming from a South Asian culture, I've seen the dangers of demonizing divorce-

    19. CAChris Appleton1:00:58

        Yeah

    20. JSJay Shetty1:00:59

        ... and looking at divorce as a failure or a negative thing, when actually I look at my community and I'm like, "I wish-"This person would get divorced and this person would get divorced

    21. CAChris Appleton1:01:10

        [laughs]

    22. JSJay Shetty1:01:10

        Because, because you know the truth and when they open up to you-

    23. CAChris Appleton1:01:13

        Hundred percent

    24. JSJay Shetty1:01:13

        ... and, and so it's almost, it's, it's, it's interesting, we've made people feel bad for maybe opening their heart and falling in love.

    25. CAChris Appleton1:01:21

        Totally, falling in love, of course.

    26. JSJay Shetty1:01:22

        And then, and then we also make people feel bad for-

    27. CAChris Appleton1:01:23

        And I get it

    28. JSJay Shetty1:01:24

        ... ending something.

    29. CAChris Appleton1:01:24

        Like, I get it

    30. JSJay Shetty1:01:25

        Yeah.
21. 1:01:48 – 1:05:35

    Give Yourself Permission to Walk Away

    1. CAChris Appleton1:01:49

       is to be able to leave a situation when it, it's not right anymore.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:01:53

       Yeah. Why did it feel, again, important for you to talk about it now-

    3. CAChris Appleton1:01:56

       Um-

    4. JSJay Shetty1:01:56

       ... as part of this journey with the book? Like-

    5. CAChris Appleton1:01:58

       I think there's just always, I think every part of my life, if, if there's something in the tabloid or people wanna know, I think I would like to sort of share my experience so people can relate and maybe not so, feel so alone. My biggest goal is to make people realize that it doesn't matter where you came from, it doesn't matter what the situation was that you got stuck in.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:02:19

       Mm.

    7. CAChris Appleton1:02:19

       You can move on. You can, you can evolve your life, and you can have your comeback at any age, at any age. It's never too late. So many people think it's too late. They're not 20, they think they're done. And I think, I don't know, some things are for a season and some things are forever. Like, that's life.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:02:35

       Mm.

    9. CAChris Appleton1:02:35

       Life is life. Love is messy. People are complicated. We all bring our old trauma and baggage into a relationship, whether you're willing to admit it or not. And like I said, that, that's just life. It's about alignment, and if something's not aligned, it's okay.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:02:54

        Mm.

    11. CAChris Appleton1:02:54

        Whether it's a relationship or a friendship or a marriage or whatever it is in your life, I think so many people get so fearful of not moving on or change. Change is so scary to people. Change, it-- I know by just people changing their hair how terrifying that'd be.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:03:09

        [laughs]

    13. CAChris Appleton1:03:10

        They're like, "Well, people are gonna recognize me," or, "People are gonna..."

    14. JSJay Shetty1:03:12

        Yeah.

    15. CAChris Appleton1:03:12

        I'm like, "Yeah, that's great. See a new you. See actually a you that's... This is actually gonna be great for you."

    16. JSJay Shetty1:03:17

        Mm.

    17. CAChris Appleton1:03:17

        "You're gonna have a whole new look. You could've been stuck with that old hairstyle that you showed me-

    18. JSJay Shetty1:03:21

        [laughs]

    19. CAChris Appleton1:03:21

        ... a minute ago your whole life." You know what I mean? Like, thank God someone-

    20. JSJay Shetty1:03:24

        For eternal... Yeah, no. Yeah, thank God. Yeah. Literally.

    21. CAChris Appleton1:03:26

        [laughs] You know, it's like-

    22. JSJay Shetty1:03:27

        Oh my God

    23. CAChris Appleton1:03:27

        ... but if you don't know, you don't know.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:03:29

        Yeah.

    25. CAChris Appleton1:03:29

        And at the time, I bet you thought you were killing it.

    26. JSJay Shetty1:03:30

        I thought I was. Yeah, that's the sad part.

    27. CAChris Appleton1:03:32

        Like, you know, "This is-- I straighten my hair."

    28. JSJay Shetty1:03:33

        [laughs]

    29. CAChris Appleton1:03:33

        "Why do you straighten your hair?" "Oh, 'cause someone told me to." You have beautiful natural texture.

    30. JSJay Shetty1:03:37

        Yeah. Yeah.
22. 1:05:35 – 1:10:35

    How to Protect Your Peace in a Loud World

    1. CAChris Appleton1:05:35

       helps you to move on and, and let go of situations that, you know, lo- no longer serve you.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:05:41

       So it's been around two years now.

    3. CAChris Appleton1:05:43

       Yeah.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:05:43

       Where's your headspace at now?

    5. CAChris Appleton1:05:45

       I think I just feel grateful to have had the experiences I've had in my life and to have the knowledge and the wisdom to be able to process them and let go of it and, and move on, and I think with every chapter of my life, I'm so grateful I had that, each and every experience, good and bad, 'cause it led me to where I'm at now. I, I think I'm in a, a good place. Not every day, but more so than I ever have been in my life where I've abandoned myself.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:06:16

       Mm.

    7. CAChris Appleton1:06:17

       And it's such an easy thing to do, and I'm just so aware of doing that now. It's like I can't not see it. Once you s-see yourself... Do you know how many people look in the mirror every day? Y-you look in the mirror maybe, I think the average is 12 times a day. They say on average it's an hour a day, from brushing your teeth to, you know, checking your hair, whatever it is, having your hair cut. An hour of your day looking yourself in the mirror. So many people see a reflection. Not everyone looks at themselves. We just look, but no one actually really looks. And part of my job and my journey has been, I guess, showing people a real mirror so people can really see themselves and be seen, and a lot of people are not seen, and when you really see people and you break it down to, like, why have you always done this? Why have you always repeated this behavior? Why have you always got yourself into the same situation? Why have you got yourself into the same relationship? There's a pattern to it. Once you see the pattern and once you break it down, you can change it. That's really empowering. I did it with hair for a long time.But I didn't realize I was also doing it in an internal way. And everyone can relate to that people saying your, your hairdresser's your therapist. I didn't even know I was doing that.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:07:23

       It's such a real statement.

    9. CAChris Appleton1:07:24

       It's like part of it. The difference is I used to do it with everyone else, and I'd see them, and you know what? Never saw myself.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:07:30

        Mm.

    11. CAChris Appleton1:07:30

        I didn't see myself for twenty-seven years of my life. I didn't allow myself to look. It was easier to make other people see themselves than for me to look at myself. When I saw myself, I couldn't not see it anymore. I couldn't not see who I was and who I'd become, and that defining moment of my life changed every decision moving forward. And so if I'm in a bad friendship, if I'm in a bad relationship, if I'm in a bad work environment, I'll leave it if it no longer serves me. And if I feel like I've done everything I can to be the best person I can, and no one's perfect. Humans are messy. That's okay. But I've learned to respect myself enough to be able to, you know, go back to that little boy at the window and say, "It's okay. You know, you don't have to be in that anymore. You don't have to feel alone. You can be seen." And I hope that's what everyone does and maybe finds a, a bit of that when they read the book. And obviously it's 'cause your roots don't define you. It's about roots and-

    12. JSJay Shetty1:08:27

        Mm-hmm

    13. CAChris Appleton1:08:27

        ... it's a, a double-edged sword, but it, it is such a powerful thing that if you had to stand and look in the mirror and look at yourself, this book is for anyone that looks back and is like, "Is this it?" Or anyone that looks in the mirror and is like, "I don't really know why I look the way I look."

    14. JSJay Shetty1:08:44

        Mm.

    15. CAChris Appleton1:08:45

        Or anyone that, uh, does have some success but is so miserable, or sometimes just people thinking there must be more to life. Hopefully, this will help people feel like they can change that, and they can have their comeback, and they can transform, not only the way they look on the visual, 'cause everyone knows I do that, but if they can do it internally-

    16. JSJay Shetty1:09:06

        Mm

    17. CAChris Appleton1:09:06

        ... I'm telling you now, their life will change.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:09:08

        Mm.

    19. CAChris Appleton1:09:09

        And I hope people can take what I learn 'cause I feel like everyone deserves to be free.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:09:15

        Yeah.

    21. CAChris Appleton1:09:16

        You know, I see people in the supermarket, I see people walking in the street, and I'm like, "I wish you knew what I knew," you know? And, and I think it's just really special to be able to share that journey.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:09:24

        What do you see in the mirror now when you look in the mirror, you see yourself?

    23. CAChris Appleton1:09:27

        It depends on the day.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:09:28

        [laughing]

    25. CAChris Appleton1:09:30

        Some days it's all right, and other days I'm, you know, like, I'm still like, "Ah, I really should lose five pounds."

    26. JSJay Shetty1:09:36

        [laughing]

    27. CAChris Appleton1:09:36

        "Did my hair look good better blonde?" You know, you read a comment on social media like, "You look way better blonde." And I'm like, "Oh, maybe I look better blonde." You know, it's all right. We all have those voices in the head.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:09:45

        Yeah.

    29. CAChris Appleton1:09:45

        I hope they're always there. It keeps me alive, it keeps... I just laugh at myself now.

    30. JSJay Shetty1:09:49

        Mm.
23. 1:10:35 – 1:12:28

    What Do You Really See in the Mirror?

    1. CAChris Appleton1:10:35

       kind of the same color.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:10:35

       It's delighting.

    3. CAChris Appleton1:10:35

       And I look like a log, and that, you know, it was this text chain where I'm texting my friend. I'm like, "I look like a log. What the..." And I just laugh at it, you know? It, it-

    4. JSJay Shetty1:10:41

       Yeah

    5. CAChris Appleton1:10:41

       ... it's all right. It's fine. It's just nothing's perfect.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:10:44

       You get over it after you realize there's more bad pictures of you on Getty than good ones.

    7. CAChris Appleton1:10:48

       Hundred percent.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:10:49

       And then you go, "All right, I'm good with it."

    9. CAChris Appleton1:10:50

       And that's the same with like a headline or whatever. I'm like, "That's all right. It's cool, you know, fine. Whatever." I mean, it's, I mean, it's not easy. I'm not, I'm not saying I laugh everything off at all. I, I'm, I have, I'm a dad, and my number one goal is to protect my kids, you know, because they're gonna see everything. My family see everything. But I've also learned to be able to know that if I'm aligned, sometimes I have to go back to that alignment and have to sit back in it, I'm okay.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:11:16

        Mm. What... Have the kids read the book? Have your kids read it?

    11. CAChris Appleton1:11:19

        Yeah. They have. [laughing]

    12. JSJay Shetty1:11:21

        How, how did-

    13. CAChris Appleton1:11:22

        Well, I think it's kind of for the, for them, it's interesting 'cause I'm Dad. I think one of the proudest moments of my life is the fact that they have been through so much on this journey with me, but they can still look at me and call me Dad proudly, and that means everything to me.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:11:40

        Mm.

    15. CAChris Appleton1:11:41

        And I don't wanna have any secrets. I wanna share my journey with them. And as difficult as some of those topics are, I'd rather show 'em and say, "That was really hard, and I moved on, and this is where I'm at now." And I didn't just move on because, like, it was easy. I moved on 'cause I went through it, and it was brutal, and it was challenging. But do the work, you know, and it will lead you to a better place.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:12:05

        We, we reached out to the kids, and they sent us a note for you, uh, that I thought-

    17. CAChris Appleton1:12:11

        To my kids?

    18. JSJay Shetty1:12:12

        Yeah.

    19. CAChris Appleton1:12:12

        Really?

    20. JSJay Shetty1:12:13

        And so there's-

    21. CAChris Appleton1:12:15

        Oh

    22. JSJay Shetty1:12:16

        ... there's one each, and, uh-

    23. CAChris Appleton1:12:18

        Okay

    24. JSJay Shetty1:12:18

        ... I'm gonna ask you... I haven't read them yet, so I'm gonna hear them for the first time too. Can I ask you to read Kitty's out loud?

    25. CAChris Appleton1:12:24

        Okay.

    26. JSJay Shetty1:12:25

        Can read it out for us 'cause I've not, I've not read it either, so

24. 1:12:28 – 1:19:01

    Being the Father You Always Needed

    1. JSJay Shetty1:12:28

       I wanted to save it for you.

    2. CAChris Appleton1:12:29

       "There are so many things I've wanted to say over the years, and sometimes I don't know how to put them into words. But today I just want to tell you how proud I am truly to be your daughter. [laughing] You've been my example of strength, compassion, and integrity for as long as I remember. For every chapter of life, you've shown up with grace and honesty. You've made sacrifices that I'll never fully understand, and you've given me love in a way that made me feel safe, valued, and seen. Even now, watching you open your heart up and share your story to the world, I'm constantly inspired by your vulnerability and courage, and that's rare and a beautiful thing. You've given me so much more than I could ever thank for. Your love has shaped me-And your belief in me has carried through. I love you so much and I'm forever proud to be your [chuckles] daughter. Love, Kitty. Oh, God. I don't... I'm shaking. [crying] Oh, my God, I don't know what to say. Ugh, that's how you get me with my kids. I'm just, I'm, I'm just so grateful that I have them and, and that they've been a part of this journey. And like I said, the biggest achievement of my whole life is that they can call me Dad and, and, and say it with pride. 'Cause there's been so many times that I've not felt proud of myself and I-I, I've not been kind to myself, and I, I think a lot of people can relate to that abandonment of themselves. And yeah, having them is, is the greatest gift.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:14:13

       Beautiful letter. And this one's from Billy.

    4. CAChris Appleton1:14:15

       You know what? I remember that night telling them about, you know, being gay. It was, especially for a boy, there's so... it's kinda what guys say. "You're gay, you're gay." It's always pinned as a bad thing. So I knew he was gonna face so much going back to school of people talking and people whispering and people saying stuff to him, to him. And they both have gone through so much that they never let me see 'cause they knew I, I was going through my own-

    5. JSJay Shetty1:14:43

       Mm-hmm

    6. CAChris Appleton1:14:44

       ... pain. So like, yeah, this means a lot. Okay. Dear Dad, where do I even start? Um, one of my first memories as a kid is you dressing up as [chuckles] Superman to surprise me on my birthday. I thought I'd just met my hero. I didn't realize it then, but as I grew older, I came to see the real superhero wasn't the costume, it was the man inside. You went from cutting hair in a small local salon to taking a massive leap and moving across the world with nothing. And somehow across the chaos, you built a life out there. You worked with Hollywood stars, become a businessman, appeared on TV, and now even written a book. And through all of that, you're still the same guy who makes people laugh and lights up every room, and who does everything he can to make the people around him happy. But what sticks with me the most isn't just what you've accomplished, it's what you've taught me. You've shown me how to be confident in myself and not to care what other people think, and you've taught me how to stay motivated to reach for the stars. And most importantly, you've taught me how to be respectful, kind, and caring. I'm beyond proud to be your son. [sighs] Keep doing you, Dad. Love from B. Oh, God. [laughs] Wow.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:16:01

       I'm nearly in tears just listening. It's so beautiful, man. It's-

    8. CAChris Appleton1:16:05

       Yeah. That's really special

    9. JSJay Shetty1:16:06

       ... it's amazing.

    10. CAChris Appleton1:16:09

        Yeah.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:16:09

        I just feel so proud to have, to raise two kids who love you that much. That is pretty special.

    12. CAChris Appleton1:16:15

        Yeah. I am.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:16:16

        It's amazing.

    14. CAChris Appleton1:16:16

        But, you know, any parent listening knows that their only goal is to make sure their kids grow up with the least amount of pain, and we all know the harsh reality of life. You know, when you're a kid, you're so innocent and life is so free, and as we grow older, there's so much baggage thrown at us.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:16:33

        Mm-hmm.

    16. CAChris Appleton1:16:34

        And I think the only thing you can do is try and understand it. And I spent many of my years, like I said, trying to unpick what didn't belong to me and shake that off and shake that baggage off. And if I can save them, if I can save them having to go through some of the struggles I went through 'cause I didn't allow myself to be, then I did okay with that, you know?

    17. JSJay Shetty1:17:00

        Mm-hmm.

    18. CAChris Appleton1:17:01

        All right. Should we move on? [laughs]

    19. JSJay Shetty1:17:02

        Chris, I'm so... No, Chris, I'm so grateful-

    20. CAChris Appleton1:17:03

        I'm sweating. [laughs]

    21. JSJay Shetty1:17:04

        I'm so grateful to you for, you know, your time and energy writing this book.

    22. CAChris Appleton1:17:08

        Cool.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:17:08

        I love about how you talk. When people dive in, they'll learn about the personal hater that we all have inside of us.

    24. CAChris Appleton1:17:15

        Yeah.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:17:15

        They'll learn about how you talk about how shame lives in the shadows.

    26. CAChris Appleton1:17:18

        Yep.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:17:19

        They'll learn about this whole journey of what it means to make a comeback and, um-

    28. CAChris Appleton1:17:23

        And also to realize that it's never too late.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:17:25

        Yeah.

    30. CAChris Appleton1:17:26

        It really is never too late, and sometimes we spend years of our life trying to figure that out. But once you have that realization, and hopefully the book will be that realization, that it isn't too late, and maybe a few footsteps into going into the right direction to change things.
25. 1:19:01 – 1:23:04

    Chris on Final Five

    1. CAChris Appleton1:19:01

       they tell me they're my favorite but I know-

    2. JSJay Shetty1:19:02

       But those are your favorites too.

    3. CAChris Appleton1:19:03

       They're everyone else's favorite, I think, yeah.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:19:05

       What are your fav-

    5. CAChris Appleton1:19:05

       Oh, actually-

    6. JSJay Shetty1:19:05

       I wanna know what are your favorites. Yeah

    7. CAChris Appleton1:19:07

       ... um, listen, I'm going against the grain. Uh, everyone's gonna come for me, but I love a blonde Kim, and taking her platinum was a whole thing. So probably a blonde Kim, I love that. Um, and then J.Lo, I don't know, I really like it when we did like a short, we did a short hairstyle for her on the cover of Allure and I loved it, um, just 'cause it was so different. I love seeing someone really take on a different character-

    8. JSJay Shetty1:19:27

       Yeah

    9. CAChris Appleton1:19:27

       ... and a different story and just try it out, you know?

    10. JSJay Shetty1:19:29

        Yeah.

    11. CAChris Appleton1:19:29

        Fearlessly.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:19:30

        I love that. Uh, question number four, what do you see when you look at the inner mirror now?So you told us you, on the outside sometimes you're like, oh, five pounds, blonde hair

    13. CAChris Appleton1:19:40

        Yeah

    14. JSJay Shetty1:19:40

        But what does the inner mirror look like?

    15. CAChris Appleton1:19:42

        I think I see a guy that doesn't always have it together, but absolutely tries his best to be the best version of himself, primarily to inspire my kids that they can do the same. And now this book, so when people feel like they can share that journey with me and I, I wanna hear other people's stories. I wanna hear other people's journey.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:20:06

        Mm.

    17. CAChris Appleton1:20:07

        My greatest pain growing up was that no one spoke, no one spoke about it, no one spoke about their experience. And I think the more people that speak and share their stories and their journeys, the more we can all learn-

    18. JSJay Shetty1:20:16

        Mm-hmm

    19. CAChris Appleton1:20:17

        ... and accept and grow.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:20:19

        Well said. Uh, fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show.

    21. CAChris Appleton1:20:23

        Yeah.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:20:24

        If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

    23. CAChris Appleton1:20:28

        My one law would be that everyone stops, looks in the mirror, and just says, "Is this enough? Is this what I wanted? Is this where I'm at?" And if so, great, but at least just to stop and really look.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:20:42

        Mm.

    25. CAChris Appleton1:20:42

        How did we get to where we got?

    26. JSJay Shetty1:20:44

        It's a good answer.

    27. CAChris Appleton1:20:45

        To realize that if you wanna change, you can. 'Cause like I say, I've always done that with my hands and sitting in a chair, but I realized there was this whole world that people don't know about, but once you know, you can't unsee it.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:20:58

        Chris Appleton, the book is called Your Roots Don't Define You. Everyone who's been listening and watching, I cannot wait to see what you're taking away. I wanna see all the TikToks, the Instagram reels, the stories. I love seeing what you extract from these conversations, apply in your own life. If you've had a friend or family member that you haven't even known what to say to because they've been on a similar journey, send this episode to them. I think it's gonna help a lot of people on their personal journey of transformation and reflection. And make sure that you keep coming back. Make sure you subscribe so that you never miss out on an episode, because it's stories like this that we built this platform for, where people can come and talk about the ups, the downs, the real healing and what that actually looks like. And I highly recommend you go and grab a copy of Chris's book, Your Roots Don't Define You. Uh, it's available for pre-order right now as we're speaking. Chris, thank you again so much for-

    29. CAChris Appleton1:21:52

        Thank you

    30. JSJay Shetty1:21:52

        ... trusting me, for trusting the platform, for-

Episode duration: 1:23:04