Dr. Will Cole ON: The Foods You ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT Eat To Live Longer! | Jay Shetty

Dr. Will Cole 0:00 Continually eating foods that don't love you back is like staying in a toxic relationship and wondering why you're still miserable. But avoiding foods that don't love you back isn't restrictive, it's self-respect. The bestselling author and host.

Jay Shetty 0:14 The number one health and wellness podcast. On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, if you've been listening lately, you've been hearing me repeat this mantra: happy, healthy, and healing. This is something I've been repeating to myself a lot recently. I'm happy, I'm healthy, I'm healing. It's been making a big difference in my life. And I know that you're here because you wanna be happy, you wanna be healthy, and you want to heal. Now, today's guest is someone who talks about that in such a phenomenal way, and everything from the gut to the brain to what we digest every day to our feelings and our traumas and how they affect the chemicals inside of our body and our mind. I'm talking about Dr. Will Cole, a leading functional medicine expert who consults people around the globe, starting one of the first functional medicine telehealth centers in the world over a decade ago. Named one of the top 50 functional and integrative doctors in the nation, Dr. Will Cole provides a functional medicine approach for thyroid issues, autoimmune conditions, hormonal imbalances, digestive disorders, and brain problems. Dr. Will Cole is also the host of the popular The Art of Being Well podcast, make sure you check it out, and the New Ti- New York Times bestselling author of Intuitive Fasting, The Inflammation Spectrum, and the brand-new book, Gut Feelings: Healing the Shame-Fueled Relationship Between What You Eat and How You Feel. If you don't have that book yet, I want you to go and order right now. Gut Feelings. Uh, we are gonna put the link in the show notes. Make sure you grab a copy as you're listening right now or watching. Uh, Dr. Will Cole, thank you for being here.

Dr. Will Cole 2:04 I need you to be my hype man every day, man.

Jay Shetty 2:06 [laughs]

Dr. Will Cole 2:06 [laughs] That's a great way to start your day.

Jay Shetty 2:08 Oh, thank you, man.

Dr. Will Cole 2:09 [laughs] Thanks, man.

Jay Shetty 2:09 Thank you. Well- well, you- I always say to my guests, I'm like, "You had to live all of that."

Dr. Will Cole 2:12 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:13 So you actually had to do it.

Dr. Will Cole 2:14 Thanks, man.

Jay Shetty 2:15 Uh, but I also wanna... Can I call you Will?

Dr. Will Cole 2:16 Of course, yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:17 Uh, I- I just wanna say for everyone who's watching, Will took a flight this morning from Pittsburgh to New York City to be on the show. I appreciate him so much-

Dr. Will Cole 2:25 Of course

Jay Shetty 2:25 ... for doing that.

Dr. Will Cole 2:26 Of course.

Jay Shetty 2:26 Uh, I really, really value that. I- I love connecting with people in person. And-

Dr. Will Cole 2:29 Yeah, I'm happy to be here.

Jay Shetty 2:31 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 2:31 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:31 I, and I can't wait to dive in.

Dr. Will Cole 2:32 Let's get it. Let's do it.

Jay Shetty 2:33 Uh, I was just saying to you earlier that our community, our audience here on Purpose really loves learning and really loves getting really practical-

Dr. Will Cole 2:41 Yeah

Jay Shetty 2:41 ... applicable tools when it comes to their health.

Dr. Will Cole 2:43 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 2:43 Uh, I think one of the things that I, by the way, I love the name of the new book, like Gut Feelings.

Dr. Will Cole 2:49 Thanks.

Jay Shetty 2:50 I think the gut has often been so ignored in the conversation.

Dr. Will Cole 2:54 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:54 We often talk about, "How do you feel up here? How, what's your head saying?"

Dr. Will Cole 2:58 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 2:58 And then we feel about the heart versus the head, and I feel like the gut was forgotten for so long.

Jay Shetty 3:04 Why is the gut so important in that conversation, and why should it not be ignored?

Dr. Will Cole 3:10 You're right. And even t- I- I think we've come a long way in the past 12 years since I've been in functional medicine, people growing awareness, but we're still scratching the surface. I realize I'm probably talking to more of the health nerds, and it's-

Jay Shetty 3:23 Definitely

Dr. Will Cole 3:24 ... not, not the general population, so we have a far way to go. And our gut is a major part of our health, but you don't necessarily have to have extreme digestive symptoms to have underlying gut components to why you feel the way that you do. So your gut and brain are actually formed from the same fetal tissue. So when babies are growing in their mother's womb, they're formed from that same fetal tissue, and they're inextricably linked for the rest of our lives through what's known as the gut-brain axis or the connection between the gut and the brain. 95% of serotonin, our happy neurotransmitter, it's made in the gut, stored in the gut. 50% of dopamine is made in the gut, stored in the gut. And if you think about it, the intestines kind of even resemble the brain, and the vagus nerve is what really innervates and connects both the gut and the brain.

Jay Shetty 4:11 [laughs]

Dr. Will Cole 4:12 Researchers call the gut the second brain. We have to understand to understand so much of what ails modern society, we have to understand gut health. And I- it's no coincidence that most of probably your listeners would know Hippocrates, the father of modern medicine, he said, "All disease begins in the gut." Well, if disease begins in the gut, then so does healing begin in the gut. And it's also home to 75% of the immune system. Inflammation is a product of the immune system, and you look at the epidemic rise of autoimmune problems and really inflammation is a commonality between just about every health problem. Autoimmune issues, metabolic issues, hormonal problems, to re- really research looking at what's known as the cytokine model of cognitive function, how inflammation impacts how our brains work. So things like anxiety and depression, fatigue all have their roots in not only inflammation, but also the gut-brain connection. So it is, the far-reaching implications of this is vast. We have to understand it to deal with it.

Jay Shetty 5:13 And what are some of the biggest mistakes we're making when it comes to our gut? Like, what are the things that I think you- you would say that we're just so unaware of-

Dr. Will Cole 5:20 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 5:21 ... or unsure about that are causing gut challenges? I think the interesting thing about gut issues is that when you figure out that you have something you're concerned about-

Dr. Will Cole 5:31 Yeah

Jay Shetty 5:31 ... and you start talking to your friend or someone, you realize everyone has it-

Dr. Will Cole 5:34 Yeah [laughs]

Jay Shetty 5:34 ... but no one talks about it.

Dr. Will Cole 5:36 Right.

Jay Shetty 5:36 Right? It's not like one of those things that people share very openly.

Dr. Will Cole 5:40 Right.

Jay Shetty 5:40 But you start recognizing, wow, everyone has digestive issues. Everyone's having some sort of inflammation. Everyone's having this kind of thing. So

Jay Shetty 5:47 what are some of the habits, traits that you think have kind of become widespread that is actually taking us down this road that maybe we're just not aware of enough?

Dr. Will Cole 5:56 What I'm always telling my patients is just because something's common doesn't necessarily mean it's normal. Just because it's your every day doesn't mean you should settle for it. And I really can't tell you how many times when I'm talking to somebody online and we're going through the systems of their body and they have these aha moments of, "Whoa, I thought that was just me. I thought that was just- ... my lot in life because I have it every day. But I think they need to, we as a human race need to take inventory and kind of get in our bodies and know that you teach about this so eloquently of just being aware and mindful of how our body works because it may be your every day, but it doesn't mean it should be normalized. So I mean, we could talk about digestion, and you're right, people want, don't wanna talk about it. It's very normal for me to talk about poop at my office. It's like, uh, and then I look across the telehealth, across the, the internet, and then I realize it's not as normal as I think it is, [laughs] right?

Jay Shetty 6:48 [laughs]

Dr. Will Cole 6:49 I see their partner like, "Oh, we've never talked about this before," you know? Uh, we get real, real fast, but it's important because it's a window into probably lots of other things in your body. But it's normal to have one to two, we say, snakes a day as far as bowel movements are concerned on the Bristol chart. Many people go two, three days without a normal bowel movement, or it's always loose or always really strained and like pebbles. That's not normal. Your bowel movements are a window into your overall health. So we start there, but then we look at energy levels throughout your day. Do you need lots of, you know, sugar and caffeine to get through the day? That's not normal, but that's e- a lot of people's every day certainly. Uh, do you have ravenous cravings of food? Do you have trouble losing weight? Do you have hair loss? Do you have skin problems? These are all, like we call in functional medicine, these are like check engine lights. Check engine light's on, but why? The body's telling us something. We have to go upstream or get to the root cause of why you have the problem in the first place.

Jay Shetty 7:49 Yeah, and I think for a lot of people it becomes hard because I found for a long time as well that as I became more aware of these things-

Dr. Will Cole 7:56 Yeah

Jay Shetty 7:56 ... and as I sought after help, it was really difficult to find good personalized advice because you'll see everyone say, "Well, you have to drink this one thing."

Dr. Will Cole 8:07 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 8:07 "You have to do this one thing."

Dr. Will Cole 8:08 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 8:08 Right? It becomes this fad, and some things help and some things don't, and you don't know how they're all interconnected, and I feel like people get quite stuck, and that's why I love books like yours and podcasts like yours because people can kind of follow along and go, "Okay, I'm dealing with this challenge."

Dr. Will Cole 8:20 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 8:21 Um, one of the things that I love that you talked about was the process you call shame-flammation, and I wanted to talk about how can one begin to confront that?

Dr. Will Cole 8:30 So shame-flammation, I... You know, you know this, as writing books and educating people and speaking, you'll wake up in the middle of the night and be like, "Oh-

Jay Shetty 8:38 [laughs]

Dr. Will Cole 8:38 ... that's a good way of conveying what I'm trying to say."

Jay Shetty 8:40 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 8:40 'Cause you see it play out in people's lives all the time. I see it on an hourly basis when I'm consulting patients. People that eat really clean, they are working out, they're doing all the wellness stuff. They go to Erewhon. They, they do all the, the [laughs] things you're supposed to do.

Jay Shetty 8:55 That's me, by the way.

Dr. Will Cole 8:56 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 8:57 So I'm one of those people that I'm like, I, I eat cleaner than 99% of my friends.

Dr. Will Cole 9:02 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 9:02 I work out, I stay healthy. I don't drink alcohol. I don't smoke. Like, I have a very clean life and I still had high forms of inflammation. I work with, uh, Mona Sharma. I don't know if you know of Mona.

Dr. Will Cole 9:12 I love Mona. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 9:12 So Mona's my health coach.

Dr. Will Cole 9:13 I love her.

Jay Shetty 9:14 And so w- and my wife is my health coach, too. She's been a dietician and nutritionist and-

Dr. Will Cole 9:17 Yeah

Jay Shetty 9:18 ... Ayurvedic, uh, health practitioner. So my wife and Mona kind of tag team on my life.

Dr. Will Cole 9:22 You're, you're in good hands.

Jay Shetty 9:23 I'm, I'm very fortunate.

Dr. Will Cole 9:24 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 9:24 But, you know, so yeah, let, let's talk about that because I'm actually that person.

Dr. Will Cole 9:28 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 9:28 I'm that person who's, I'm like, "Guys, I pretty much don't have any bad habits."

Dr. Will Cole 9:32 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 9:32 So let, let's do our shame-flammation.

Dr. Will Cole 9:34 Yeah. So it, that's 99% of my patients as well. You're not alone. Is that you have very erudite people that are trying to do the best things that are probably most of them better off than they would be if they weren't doing these things. But there's these missing pieces, and what I explore with my patients and what I get to talk about in Gut Feelings is these missing physiological and psychological missing links to what is keeping you stuck at that plateau? What is keeping you back from leveling up how you wanna feel? So shame-flammation is this convergence of the mental, emotional, and the physical, and really the conversation that I get to have with patients and I also get to have in this book, in Gut Feelings, is the fact that mental health is not separate from physical health. Mental health is physical health, and our brain is a part of our body just as much as anything else is. And as I mentioned earlier, the implications of the vagus nerve, the gut brain axis, and inflammation a- and its role in our health. But our thoughts and emotions on one end of that coin, stress, shame, trauma, even intergenerational trauma, that esoteric non-measurable stuff impacts the measurable, meaning it will spike inflammation levels. It'll impact how your vagus nerve work, ne- nervus, uh, vagus nerve works. It'll impact how your hormones are expressed. So we have to look at what I call for my patients shame-flammation and what is our relationship with food? What is our relationship with our body? What is our relationship with ourselves? And start shifting paradigms around how we live life. Because you could be do- you could be doing amazing things for your health, eating good foods, working out, but if you're going into it with such a sense of dread and obsession and, you know, something that I say in the book is you can't heal a body you hate. You cannot shame your way into health, and many people try to, and they're doing good things that even make sense on paper, but they're going into it with such a negative sense of-

Jay Shetty 11:36 Intention

Dr. Will Cole 11:37 ... and, yeah, intention. It's sabotaging. It's producing a completely opposite result. So I wanna bring good things, but let's do it with a good intention, and that's what shame-flammation, that concept is all about.

Jay Shetty 11:47 Yeah. Understood. What, what are some of the quick things that if ev- anyone's thinking

Jay Shetty 11:51 I'm feeling inflammation, what are some of the things in our physical, like, things that we're consuming that are likely to cause inflammation?

Dr. Will Cole 11:58 Yeah. So there's the physiological and the-

Jay Shetty 12:00 Yeah

Dr. Will Cole 12:00 ... psychological again. So the physiological, let's go on that side.

Jay Shetty 12:03 Yes.

Dr. Will Cole 12:03 So the, the, we- start with the foods that we eat. I mean, every food we eat either feeds inflammation or fights it. There's, there's no neutral food. There's no Switzerland meal.

Jay Shetty 12:12 [laughs]

Dr. Will Cole 12:13 It's, it's, it's, it's serving your physiology. It's doing something.

Jay Shetty 12:16 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Will Cole 12:17 It's maybe in incremental ways, maybe in negligible ways, but it's some in very major ways. So we have to take inventory of every food we eat. Other, every meal is another opportunity to bring inflammation up or bring inflammation levels down. So what I call the inflammatory core four are the four ... foods or food ingredients that are most likely to disrupt that gut microbiome, all the trillions of bacteria in our gut that, that regulate our inflammation levels, regulate hormones, regulate our brain and neurotransmitters. So that's gonna be gluten-containing grains would be number one. And I have a nuanced conversation about this. There are better versions of gluten. You can get ancient grains. You can get sourdough bread that ferments some of this. A lot of the foods that I'm gonna be talking about here are what we've done to the food, not necessarily the food in and of itself. But for, for the sake of simplicity, gluten-containing grains, looking at that in your life. Number two would be industrial seed oils, things like soybean oil, vegetable oil, canola oil.

Jay Shetty 13:17 Palm oil.

Dr. Will Cole 13:18 Palm oil, exactly, yeah.

Jay Shetty 13:19 I've just been taking off a lot of those because that was somewhere where we hadn't got to yet. So I'm off palm oil, canola oil. I can only eat things in olive oil or avocado oil at the moment.

Dr. Will Cole 13:29 Love it.

Jay Shetty 13:29 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 13:30 Thanks, Mona.

Jay Shetty 13:30 Yeah. [laughs]

Dr. Will Cole 13:31 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 13:31 Yeah, yeah. Thanks, Mona. Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 13:33 Conventional dairy, I would say that, and added sugar, which is no surprise, I'm sure, to people. But even the nice-sounding euphemisms for sugar, you know, that, that are hidden very cleverly on labels, that they may be better for you options, and I'm not demonizing the en- entire sugar industry, but I'm saying look at the amount of added grams of sugar you're consuming in a day. You may be surprised. So decreasing that. And if I could make the core four a plus one, [laughs] I would add alcohol to that list, is people oftentimes they eat cleaner. They clean up their diet. They know about the inflammatory core four, but they keep in alcohol in their life as like, "Oh, that's my one vice." But they are kept back. Their guts are still struggling. Their mental health is still struggling. Their energy levels, their weight loss resistance still struggling. So I would at least look at alcohol as a role into these as well because it's becoming quite normalized within the wellness world specifically. And at the end of the day, there's no healthy amount of alcohol. There are better for you options certainly, and I have to be pragmatic, but it's, uh, something that I would take into consideration.

Jay Shetty 14:40 Yeah, no, that's great. I mean, that's so practical, and I think everyone who's listening to that, I think we've all heard about a friend... I'm gluten-free too, but I've heard about friends being gluten-free and this and that.

Dr. Will Cole 14:48 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:48 And we often laugh about these things.

Dr. Will Cole 14:49 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:50 But it's, it's interesting to hear just how simple it can be, right?

Dr. Will Cole 14:55 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:55 These are not huge changes. None of these changes are, like, hard to find necessarily. These things are becoming more and more common, at least at a grocery store.

Dr. Will Cole 15:03 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 15:04 And we can start making healthier choices in a simple way.

Dr. Will Cole 15:07 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 15:07 Uh, let's talk a bit about, bit about gut microbiome because, so I recently had a surgery and I had to take, uh, Tramadol and a bunch of other stuff to-

Dr. Will Cole 15:15 Mm

Jay Shetty 15:15 ... like painkillers to try-

Dr. Will Cole 15:17 Yeah

Jay Shetty 15:17 ... and deal with the pain and, and Mona was like, "All right, we're gonna have to start with your microbiome all over again after this is all over." What is that relationship

Jay Shetty 15:24 between, uh, painkillers and all of that with our gut microbiome as well? Like, where's the connection there?

Dr. Will Cole 15:30 Well, I mean, your gut is just a major regulator of so many different pathways in the body. So it is such a central role, but when you're taking either NSAIDs or antibiotics or other pain medications, they can really do a number on your gut. Uh, they, it can really impact the gut lining as well as the microbiome metropolis, this gut garden within, within our gastrointestinal system. So that doesn't mean we shouldn't be on those medications when they're properly prescribed. There are surgeries where you need to be on things like that. But just as Mona said, what are we gonna do afterwards? What's sort of the long game here to start supporting gut health again? Because pragmatically, uh, those medications, just like certain foods and other... Everything we do in life influences this gut garden, so there's some things that hurt it more than others. And especially people that are on medications, some medications long-term, specifically antibiotics and some pain pills as well, they really can do quite good damage on the gut that we have to work on rehabilitating over time.

Jay Shetty 16:38 Yeah. And so that's just something to be conscious of as well.

Dr. Will Cole 16:40 Yes. It's something to be conscious of, talk with your doctor about, 'cause oftentimes there isn't a conversation about gut health when it's-

Jay Shetty 16:45 Yeah

Dr. Will Cole 16:45 ... it's just, "No, take this. See you later." But I would just want to be empowered as a patient and be informed as to your options and have choice.

Jay Shetty 16:55 Yeah. And n- you've talked a bit about how the connection between alcohol and intuition.

Dr. Will Cole 16:59 Mm.

Jay Shetty 16:59 And I was intrigued by that. Like, what, what have you seen as the connection there that you-

Dr. Will Cole 17:04 Well, well, I think, again, as I mentioned earlier, I think alcohol, people don't want to go there, right? That's how they socialize. That's how they hang out with their friends. That's how they wind down. That's how they deal with the background anxiousness. Uh, and they don't really wanna see how this drink can impact how they feel and how they truly can know what their body loves and what their body doesn't love. So alcohol can impact both you, y- your body on both the physiological and the psychological level. It's gonna impact your gut microbiome certainly. It's gonna-

Jay Shetty 17:34 What's it doing? What's happening?

Dr. Will Cole 17:35 It could do a few things. It's going to disrupt the microbiome. So the microbiome is, depending on the study that you look at, it's upwards of 100 trillion bacteria, and we have about 10 trillion human cells. So we are all about 10 times more bacteria than human. And when we drink alcohol, it is really ha- um, especially people that are consistently drinking, it is quite disruptive to this microbiome balance, and it can breed things like bacterial overgrowth. People, a lot of the p- times people that I, that I talk to, they have something called SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and alcohol is a component. It's certainly not the only driver of that, but it is a disruptor and breeder of bacterial overgrowth by messing up the balance, the, of this microbiome, uh, component. And it also can increase intestinal permeability or, uh, in- increase, uh, what they call leaky gut syndrome. It's, uh, when the things are passing through the gut that shouldn't be able to pass through the gut, like undigested food proteins, bacterial toxins called lipopolysaccharides, and then that's the seminal event that a lot of things When the immune system sees undigested food and bacterial toxins in the bloodstream, then there's something called molecular mimicry. It's sort of the, the case of mistaken identity when the immune system starts this cascade of inflammation, and that's what can trigger autoimmunity. When the immune system loses recognition of self, which I think that's happening on a physical level, but then you think about what's happening on a mental, emotional, spiritual level with so many people losing recognition of self, and we have this epidemic rise of autoimmune conditions. 50 million Americans at the very least have an autoimmune disease. Millions more are somewhere on that autoimmune inflammation spectrum. So alcohol's implication in that is it really is something that allows... It can tri- be a trigger for a lot of people, not only on a mental emotional level we know, but I think people's relationship with alcohol exists on a spectrum. Um, and you may not be a full-blown alcoholic. People need to look at themselves and say, "How am I using this tool in my life? And is it in alignment with how I wanna live my life? Is it in alignment with how I wanna feel?"

Jay Shetty 19:47 Yeah. That's a, that's a great message to, to get people to reflect on.

Dr. Will Cole 19:51 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:52 Uh, what... That was the physiological. What are some of the psychological things to be aware of?

Dr. Will Cole 19:57 Yeah. Well, I think the research around stress is very fascinating. I mean, we know when your body is in a state of stress, and look, str- the stress is normal. It is good in measured amounts. What I'm talking about here is chronic stress. It's that I'm being chased by this tiger, but there's no tiger. Many people are stuck in various degrees of sympathetic fight or flight stressed state, and their body's in overdrive all the time, and we need a balance. We need the sympathetic nervous system just as much as we need the parasympathetic, the resting, the digesting mechanism, but many people are just in an overaccentuation of a sympathetic nervous system response, and cortisol levels coming up because their body is in that fight or flight mode. Cortisol is not inherently bad, just like inflammation is not inherently bad. We need inflammation to fight off viruses and bacteria and heal wounds, but it's the chronic inflammation that's a problem. Same with chronic stress. Cortisol being high for too long is not good. That is... Cortisol by itself is an endogenous immunosuppressant, which means it's a natural anti-inflammatory. So inflammation comes up, cortisol comes up to try to abate and attenuate the higher inflammation levels and to help you, to actually get you out of that stressed state. But it's just unsustainable because there's no real threat for many people, but they're not sleeping well. They are eating out of alignment with what's working for their body, and they are, I would say, unhealthy relationships with technology. And all of this, I mean, what researchers call an, an evolutionary mismatch. There's a genetic, epigenetic mismatch. Our genetics haven't changed in ten thousand years, but yet our world has changed very dramatically in a very finite period of time, and you're putting that into context with the totality of human history. So if our genetics haven't changed in ten thousand years, just think of how much our world has changed in a few generations.

Jay Shetty 21:53 Mm.

Dr. Will Cole 21:54 Whether it's the foods we eat or the foods we're not eating, our stress levels, our exposure to toxins, collective and individual trauma, all of these things are the confluence of factors, the perfect storm of variables that are giving rise to these inflammatory autoimmune brain health, mental health problems. So the psychological side of how I see these stressors play out in people's lives is chronic stress, but it's a lot more nebulous, right? It's a lot more insidious because it's easy to say, "Don't eat those four foods because-

Jay Shetty 22:26 Mm-hmm

Dr. Will Cole 22:26 ... they're gonna spike inflammation." It's another thing to say, "Well, don't stress," and then you- they're stressing about not stressing. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 22:33 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 22:33 So you have to really, like, bring context and practical tools, and what I call them in the book is metaphysical meals because you need to treat these acts of stillness just like you would mealtime.

Jay Shetty 22:44 Yes.

Dr. Will Cole 22:44 Which I know we're on the same page here. It's like you have to, just like you show up for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and you, or you show up to the gym, you need to start feeding your head and your heart just as much as you feed your body.

Jay Shetty 22:55 Mm.

Dr. Will Cole 22:56 And it's very much a part of healing, and you have to deal with both sides of the coin, both the physiological and the psychological. So stress and whether that be bringing healthy boundaries in or having a better relationship with technology or prioritizing your sleep or bringing in self-care practices in your life that are nourishing to you, that are feeding you on a mental emotional level.

Jay Shetty 23:19 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 23:19 That's just one, but there are, you know, many levels to that. But, uh, we have to look at both sides.

Jay Shetty 23:24 Yeah. No, definitely. Thank you so much for walking us through those.

Dr. Will Cole 23:27 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 23:27 And when... If anyone's like me, while I'm listening to that, whenever I sit down with someone who's an expert in this space, I'm like, there's a part of you that just gets more stressed because you go, "Oh God, I'm doing all the wrong things."

Dr. Will Cole 23:36 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 23:37 Right? Like, and I'm, I'm sure people are listening or watching-

Dr. Will Cole 23:39 Right

Jay Shetty 23:39 ... at home or at work or if you're traveling and you're going, "Gosh, I need to change so much." And I think that's kind of where our problems perpetuate because we go, "Okay, I need to change everything."

Dr. Will Cole 23:49 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 23:49 And then we end up changing nothing, and I think that's always the issue, right? When you feel you wanna change everything, you end up changing nothing.

Dr. Will Cole 23:56 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 23:56 And as people are listening to this, like, where's a good place for someone to start? Like, and I'm sure you, you work with so many people who are on this journey, and I always say to people like, I don't think we have... The real crisis we have in the world today is a crisis of habits and conditioning because most people I know know what they want to change or know h- who they want to be or how they want to change. They just can't make it through that path.

Dr. Will Cole 24:24 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 24:24 Right? They can't stick

Jay Shetty 24:25 with it. So where's a good place for someone to start? If they're listening right now and they're saying, "Dr. Will Cole, I can hear that I have a ton of those physiological and psychological challenges. I need to figure this out," where does someone start?

Dr. Will Cole 24:37 I would first start with your headspace because it is... You do not have to be perfect, quote unquote. You don't have to have it all together- To start making positive action in your life. And if you're waiting for the right time, it's now. 'Cause there's always gonna be some reason why we should put it off.

Jay Shetty 24:57 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Will Cole 24:57 There's a, there's a vacation, a holiday around the corner, there's a birthday party, there's a whatever holiday around the corner, and that is many people have that paralysis of analysis, "Oh, I'll start at the new year. Oh, I'll start at this date." But the reality is I find that there's exceptions to that rule of maybe there's a certain date within the next few weeks that's be- [laughs] that's practical for you. But if you're looking at really putting it out in the calendar, I very rarely see people need to do that.

Jay Shetty 25:26 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Will Cole 25:26 Because I need you to realize that w- how are we gonna navigate through those times? 'Cause there's always gonna be something that is-

Jay Shetty 25:34 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 25:35 And I would really, what I say a- is just lean into it.

Jay Shetty 25:39 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 25:39 You don't have to have it all figured out.

Jay Shetty 25:41 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Will Cole 25:41 Because what I find is when you get the ball rolling and people get their head a little bit above water, they wanna keep doing the things that make them feel good.

Jay Shetty 25:49 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 25:50 And they start to realize, I, what I call in the book and for my patients, I call it food peace and body peace, because I want people to not come into this wellness thing, whether improve their energy or improve their digestion or improve their brain health, I want them to see this as a form of self-respect, using self-care as a form of self-respect.

Jay Shetty 26:10 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Will Cole 26:10 Because it's the sort of toxic dieting culture that tells us, "Well, you can't have that." There's a lot of shame around that, right? That's, like, very much breeding ground for shame-flammation.

Jay Shetty 26:20 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Will Cole 26:21 That's the antithesis of sustainable wellness. The genesis of sustainable wellness is really realizing that you get to do things that make you feel good.

Jay Shetty 26:33 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 26:33 And I said recently on social media that I think, I think is the paradigm shift that I wanna say here is that, that continually eating foods that don't love you back is like staying in a toxic relationship and wondering why you're still miserable. But avoiding foods that don't love you back isn't restrictive, it's self-respect. And that's the... If you wanna talk about the first thing, it's having that pivotal paradigm shift to say, "Look, oh, I thought it was about all these things I can't have." No, have whatever you want. But I want people to love feeling great more than they thought they were gonna miss something that dimmed their light.

Jay Shetty 27:12 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Will Cole 27:13 So from that place of self-respect, I find people make better choices for their life.

Jay Shetty 27:20 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 27:20 Because if they... You know, the analogy that I use in the book is, like, if you realized you were a Lamborghini and not an old beat up jalopy, how would that impact how you fueled yourself? Owners of luxury vehicles know how to take care of their car. They don't need to be taught that. They're parking it way in the back. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 27:38 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 27:38 They are d- cleaning it, they're fueling it appropriately. Many people see themselves as the old lemon and not the luxury car, and that's the paradigm shift that I want people to have 'cause then all the rest falls into place. They don't have to be perfect because they just wanna continue to pick themself up, and they ha- their why is bigger than their excuses.

Jay Shetty 27:56 That is such a good point. I, I'm so glad that you went there because there were a few points there I just wanna unpack for everyone. The first was you said to start with the headspace, and I think that's really powerful, and everyone who's listening to On Purpose right now is already naturally doing that by being here, is because if you're stressed, you eat badly. And when you eat badly, you get more stressed, and you get inflamed, and then everything else that you were saying. Then you get more stressed, and it's just this never-ending cycle. And so when you figure out what's going on up here and then you can start changing what's happening here, it's, it's a great way. So I think that was a fantastic point. The second thing that I really took away from that is this idea of self-respect and how we see ourselves. And it took me a long time to recognize what that really meant personally. So I grew up addicted to chocolate. I, I ate... and sugar, obviously.

Dr. Will Cole 28:44 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 28:45 So I ate a chocolate bar, a chocolate biscuit, a chocolate yogurt, and a chocolate ice cream pretty much every day while I was a kid.

Dr. Will Cole 28:50 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 28:51 Up until when I went to university where I would eat a chocolate bar and a, um, like, a, a liter of Sprite every single day. Like, that got me through university.

Dr. Will Cole 29:00 Mm.

Jay Shetty 29:00 And I was healthy.

Dr. Will Cole 29:01 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 29:01 And I was lean and, you know, whatever that meant.

Dr. Will Cole 29:04 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 29:04 And you thought, "I'm fine." And then you start to see things, not catch up with b- you, but you start to see the impact of certain things. And I think people still have this in them, "Well, I just wanna have fun."

Dr. Will Cole 29:14 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 29:14 "I just wanna enjoy life, and I don't wanna have to think about this." And I think what's so interesting is what you're saying is that that actually isn't enjoyment because it's damaging.

Dr. Will Cole 29:26 Mm.

Jay Shetty 29:26 And when you start realizing that the fun you're having is actually not fun genuinely for what's happening inside, you just can't see that part.

Dr. Will Cole 29:35 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 29:36 And I think that took me a long time to connect that it's not like starving yourself from what you want. It's actually like your body doesn't actually want that.

Dr. Will Cole 29:44 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 29:44 Which takes f- so long to kind of fix our mind because we're so conditioned to believe that, "Oh, I love pizza and I love this and I love that."

Dr. Will Cole 29:51 Mm.

Jay Shetty 29:51 It's like, well, you don't. You've just been conditioned through your tastes. Like, I always talk about one of my friends, uh, their kids look forward to blueberries and grapes as their reward.

Dr. Will Cole 30:03 [laughs] Yeah.

Jay Shetty 30:04 'Cause that's how they've been brought up.

Dr. Will Cole 30:05 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 30:05 Like, for them, like, blueberries are like-

Dr. Will Cole 30:07 Yeah

Jay Shetty 30:07 ... Sour Patch Kids.

Dr. Will Cole 30:08 Right.

Jay Shetty 30:09 Right? Like, that's their Sour Patch Kid. Whereas for me, it was Sour Patch Kids.

Dr. Will Cole 30:12 [laughs] The actual Sour Patch Kids.

Jay Shetty 30:12 Which I still love, which are terrible for me.

Dr. Will Cole 30:14 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 30:14 And I still love them. And when I go to the theaters, my wife really has to, like...

Dr. Will Cole 30:18 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 30:18 And so my wife was the one who helped me change my habits. When she met me, she goes, "You can't eat chocolate every day. Like, you can't have that." She was like, "Once a week. You can't have it every day." And, and it took me ages to be like, "Ah."

Dr. Will Cole 30:27 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 30:27 And then I, and then we, we got there, and then she replaced it with monk fruit, and I used to eat these cacao nibs sweetened with monk fruit.

Dr. Will Cole 30:33 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 30:33 And now I've got to a point where if I'm, if I'm at home, I'm barely, I don't... Removed refined sugars from my diet. And it took a long process. And now I found actually when I go back and have an indulgent dessert, it doesn't taste as good to me.

Dr. Will Cole 30:48 Mm.

Jay Shetty 30:48 And that was a huge journey for me. I was like, "Oh, wow, it's not..." And sometimes I'll still crave ... like a burger, a really, like, juicy fried burger. And I'm, I'm plant-based, so-

Dr. Will Cole 30:58 Mm

Jay Shetty 30:58 ... I'm talking about plant-based burgers. And when I have it, I'll actually not enjoy the feeling afterwards.

Dr. Will Cole 31:03 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 31:03 I'm like, "I actually didn't miss that at all."

Dr. Will Cole 31:05 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 31:05 And so I don't know if that aligns with what you've been saying, but I was just trying to give a-

Dr. Will Cole 31:09 100%

Jay Shetty 31:09 ... very genuine reflection of-

Dr. Will Cole 31:10 Yeah

Jay Shetty 31:10 ... dealing with a lot of these vices myself.

Dr. Will Cole 31:13 Absolutely, and I think a lot

Dr. Will Cole 31:14 of people can resonate with that. And, like, that's that repairing that gut feelings connection that I'm talking about. You know, the gut and the feelings, there's s- things that we're changing on a physiological level when you start cleaning up your diet, eating nutrient-dense foods, regulating your blood sugar, lowering inflammation levels, supporting your gut health. And then also on a, when you make that connection, you go back to those foods and you may not like them at all. I hear that many times from patients, and they're shocked. Like, these things that they loved, things that they thought they couldn't live without, they couldn't l- they say, "I could take it or leave it." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 31:48 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 31:49 That's food peace.

Jay Shetty 31:50 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 31:50 It's like that you're not bound by that food. If you wanna have it, have it, but I would just say use all food as a mindfulness tool.

Jay Shetty 31:58 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 31:59 Eat it consciously. Did it love you back? Maybe it didn't love you back, but you loved socializing with your friends, or it brought you some enjoyment in the moment, and it was worth the payoff of maybe the bloating or the inflammation. Then eat it and move on.

Jay Shetty 32:17 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 32:17 Shame is worse than any food.

Jay Shetty 32:20 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 32:20 But maybe you take it and eat it mindfully and realize afterwards, "No, it actually wasn't worth it, so maybe next time I'll have less of it."

Jay Shetty 32:27 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 32:28 "Or I won't have it at all," because like you said, like cacao nibs and monk fruit, there's so many better options-

Jay Shetty 32:34 Yeah

Dr. Will Cole 32:34 ... that taste really freaking amazing.

Jay Shetty 32:36 Absolutely, yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 32:37 You don't have to eat like a boring rabbit to be healthy.

Jay Shetty 32:40 Absolutely, yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 32:41 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 32:41 I, I've been loving, like, the Hu Kitchen bars as well.

Dr. Will Cole 32:43 Oh, they're so good.

Jay Shetty 32:45 Like, they're so good. Like-

Dr. Will Cole 32:45 That's one of my, the sad parts of New York City is Hu Kitchen closed down. I mean, they had a-

Jay Shetty 32:50 Oh, no way

Dr. Will Cole 32:50 ... they had a restaurant there.

Jay Shetty 32:51 Yeah, I remember that place. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 32:52 The pandemic took it out.

Jay Shetty 32:53 Oh, wow.

Dr. Will Cole 32:54 But they're still-

Jay Shetty 32:54 But their bars are amazing.

Dr. Will Cole 32:55 Yeah, they're still alive and strong-

Jay Shetty 32:56 Yeah

Dr. Will Cole 32:56 ... with the chocolate bars. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:57 Yeah, yeah. Their chocolate bars are great. But-

Dr. Will Cole 32:59 Yeah

Jay Shetty 32:59 ... yeah, I f- I feel like they're, you're so right that there are so many other alternatives, so many other places that you can discover new things. And even spending time with friends, like recently I've been trying to... And of course there's, there's access here and things that are in your city, but I've found, like, like my wife, she'll go to a workout class with a lot of her friends, and that's like their way of socializing together.

Dr. Will Cole 33:19 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 33:20 Or me and my wife will go do a cold plunge together or go find an infrared sauna together or something like that, where even doing health and wellness with friends has actually become a fun way of socializing.

Dr. Will Cole 33:32 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 33:32 Where it was easy to be like, "Oh, let's just all go out for dinner."

Dr. Will Cole 33:34 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 33:35 Which by the way, I still love to do, and it's not that we don't do it.

Dr. Will Cole 33:37 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 33:38 But it's the idea of there are so many alternative ways to spend time together where your friendship actually improves too.

Dr. Will Cole 33:43 Oh, yeah.

Jay Shetty 33:43 'Cause now you're not just doing dinner and a movie every time. So-

Dr. Will Cole 33:46 Yeah

Jay Shetty 33:46 ... I, I think there's... I just think the idea of experimenting is healthy.

Dr. Will Cole 33:50 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 33:51 Whether you went to a cold plunge and enjoyed it or not, that's up to you. But the idea that you went and tried something new with your friends-

Dr. Will Cole 33:56 Yeah

Jay Shetty 33:56 ... I promise you, whatever you do, trying something new with the people you love is gonna be a win either way.

Dr. Will Cole 34:02 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 34:02 Right?

Dr. Will Cole 34:02 Absolutely, and I think that that's a key point too. When people wanna start making healthy choices, they're afraid of it changing their, what they do for fun-

Jay Shetty 34:13 Yeah

Dr. Will Cole 34:13 ... or changing their relationships. How you mentioned alcohol. "Well, if everything I do with my friends is centered around unhealthy food and alcohol, what's that gonna look like?"

Jay Shetty 34:22 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 34:23 You know, if they're your true friends, they're gonna be there for you. And I've seen so many people start bringing the healthy food to the party and really being a light.

Jay Shetty 34:34 That's my wife. [laughs]

Dr. Will Cole 34:35 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 34:35 You're basically describing my wife.

Dr. Will Cole 34:37 And people are like, "Wait, what? This is healthy? What the heck?" Because it's, it really shifts hearts and minds around this... Or maybe you go to the cold plunge and you, they never, they thought it was weird at first-

Jay Shetty 34:48 Yeah

Dr. Will Cole 34:49 ... [laughs] but now they all wanna do it. People wanna feel good. It's just, just because it's been done over and over again doesn't mean you have to keep doing it. Like, start leveling up and be the leader for your friend group.

Jay Shetty 35:00 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 35:00 Because it really-

Jay Shetty 35:02 Everyone will thank you in the long term.

Dr. Will Cole 35:03 It, for sure. For sure.

Jay Shetty 35:04 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 35:04 And I've seen whole family and friend groups change because of one person deciding, "I wanna live a different way. I wanna start doing things that love me back."

Jay Shetty 35:13 Yeah. Trust me, in the beginning, my male ego with my wife telling me, like-

Dr. Will Cole 35:16 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 35:16 ... my wife would see me, like, grab a chocolate bar, put it in my mouth, and she'd be like-

Dr. Will Cole 35:18 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 35:19 ... she'd just give me the look. And everyone would be like, "Jay, you, are you literally gonna let her do that?" And I'm like, "She's actually doing it for my own good." Like, it, I feel so much happier-

Dr. Will Cole 35:27 Yeah

Jay Shetty 35:27 ... since I've let go, you know, of refined sugar. Like, it's made such a big difference in my life and I'm, I've still got a long way to go. I'm working on lots of different things, but yeah. No, I, I, I love that. I wanted to ask you, because I feel like you're one of the few people that actually talks about this connection,

Jay Shetty 35:40 how are hormones the internal communication system for the body? Because I feel like hormones are not talked about enough.

Dr. Will Cole 35:46 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 35:46 And there's not enough of a conversation about them, but that's been something you've been leading.

Dr. Will Cole 35:49 Sure. And that's part of the, the psychological, so, sorry, the physiological side of things that the psych- psychological can impact.

Jay Shetty 35:57 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Will Cole 35:57 So hormones are kind of akin to biochemical emails, and if you look at your body as this sort of corporation, the different systems of the body are not always communicating appropriately. They're either communicating too much, 'cause the body's in that sympathetic nervous system overdrive, where its cortisol levels is being really secreted quite a bit. You have, we have what's called the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis. So this is something that we can quantify on with patients via labs and see cortisol levels and cortisol, uh, circadian rhythm issues. Cortisol's too high when it should be low. It should be a nice S-shaped curve. Or it's always low, or it's always high, and it's that imbalance, that breaking of the Goldilocks principle. It's homeostasis. It's you don't want hormones too high, y- you don't want hormones too low. But you want them high when they should be high and low when they should be low. Just like our gut microbiome bacteria, just like inflammation levels, it's all subject to this- ... law of the, of Goldilocks principle. So it's really, um, hormones are a major influencer in how we wanna feel. But both the physiological and the psychological impact how hormones are expressed. So if somebody has an unhealthy gut, if they have things like chronic infections, I deal a lot with people that have chronic Lyme disease and people that have mold toxicity, uh, quite often, 'cause they have different genetic variants that make them more sensitive to things like autoimmune problems. So we can find and measure this on labs, higher levels of mold toxins, Lyme bacteria, uh, different environmental toxins like glyphosate in their body. That's shifting their nervous system in that stress state as well. That's gonna really impact hormones tremendously.

Jay Shetty 37:41 Mm.

Dr. Will Cole 37:42 So then I can measure hormones on a hormonal test, which I would, and you'll see cortisol levels all off. You'll see typically estrogen, progesterone, testosterone very low. Sometimes estrogen will be high with estrogen dominance. But for the most part, when you're in a sympathetic fight or flight stressed state, most hormones will be sluggish. They'll be on the low end of normal or really low. But then if you just saw the hormones happening in a vacuum, you'd think, "Well, it's a hormonal problem." Well, no, there's a bigger context as to why the hormones were off in the first place. So that's why context matters when it comes to all these different aspects of health. But supporting hormones are certainly imperative when you're talking about somebody's mood, when you talk about somebody's gut feelings. Hormones are those biochemical emails, so I have to measure them. I have to optimize them. Thyroid is another major player too, because many people, they're just getting basic thyroid labs. They're not really getting complex thyroid labs, so we have to really look at the complexity of thyroid hormone metabolism.

Jay Shetty 38:40 But is this something that, like, at least in a... And I'm asking as someone who was born and raised in London, obviously, like-

Dr. Will Cole 38:45 Mm

Jay Shetty 38:45 ... how much of this is accessible in the United States or across the world? Like, how do people ask for these labs? Where do they get them? Because I was one of those people for years that got checkups done and got my blood test done and things like that, and they'd always be like, "Jay, you're fine." And I was like, "But I don't feel fine." Like-

Dr. Will Cole 39:01 Yeah

Jay Shetty 39:01 ... I know something's going on. And they'd be like, "No, y- maybe you're a bit stressed." And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm sure I am, but it's more that, like, I can feel something." And it took till I started working with Darshan at Next Health.

Dr. Will Cole 39:11 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 39:12 I don't know if you know Next Health.

Dr. Will Cole 39:13 I, I've heard of them, yes.

Jay Shetty 39:13 Yeah, Next Health is an incredible facility in LA, but again, it's, it's something that requires, like, access, and it's expensive, and it's not, you know, it's not easy. It's in LA. It's in Miami.

Dr. Will Cole 39:24 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 39:24 It's, it's not something that-

Dr. Will Cole 39:25 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 39:25 ... everyone can access. And so I go, "Well, how, how does someone get those tests?"

Dr. Will Cole 39:30 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 39:30 And same as me, I was just told for ages, I was told, "Oh, maybe you're stressed. Uh, you know, just, just relax a little bit." And I'm like, "No, I don't feel right." So

Jay Shetty 39:39 how, yeah, how does someone get those tests? How does someone get that detail? I know Viome's a great source.

Dr. Will Cole 39:43 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 39:43 The gut test that they send to your house, and you do the stool test.

Dr. Will Cole 39:46 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 39:46 But yeah, how, how do people get access to that?

Dr. Will Cole 39:48 Yeah. Well, I think we're living in a time where there's still a massive gap to democratize this where it should be. But in the past 12 plus years, I've seen a lot improving. Then, and the reality is most of the thyroid labs and the hormonal tests actually are conventional tests, meaning they're mainstream tests that if you ask your doctor, your conventional PCP, GP-

Jay Shetty 40:11 They will do it.

Dr. Will Cole 40:12 They can-

Jay Shetty 40:12 They have to do it

Dr. Will Cole 40:13 ... they can do it.

Jay Shetty 40:14 Right.

Dr. Will Cole 40:14 They could decline doing it. But if you have a decent relationship with your doctor, and if it's clinically appropriate, they should be able to run this panel, even if it's slightly outside of what their routine labs. 'Cause look, the conventional model of care is largely trained to diagnose a disease and match it with a medication. So it's, the extra labs, the other labs that we run in functional medicine is slightly superfluous to a conventional medicine doctor because if it's not gonna change the treatment, why would they run it? The, for example, to use the thyroid as an example, they just need a TSH, a thyroid stimulating hormone, and maybe a T4 to give the person that levothyroxine, that Synthroid, that pharmaceutical thyroid replacement hormone. Okay, so that's all that they need. So if we want to look at all the other conventional thyroid labs, they are available. But if the end result's still gonna be that medication, then why would they run it?

Jay Shetty 41:05 Got it.

Dr. Will Cole 41:06 So I understand it from a model s- side of things, but these are conventional tests. Most of the ones that I'm talking about are very widely accessible and offset through insurance or completely covered by insurance. They just have to be ran and coded appropriately and be clinically ap- appropriate for you. Uh, so full thyroid panel is something called thyroid stimulating hormone, like I mentioned, T4. But then what we would add in functional medicine is total T3, something called free T3, free T4, and then f- what are called thyroid antibodies. The leading drivers of low thyroid function in the West are autoimmune in nature. Hashimoto's disease or autoimmune thyroiditis is the most common autoimmune disease as a whole, let alone the most common driver of low thyroid function. So we have to run thyroid peroxidase and thyroglobulin to see, 'cause it's ch- in that case, it's not truly a primary thyroid problem. The thyroid problem is because the immune system has lost recognition of self again and is attacking it. So, and Grave's disease is the other type of autoimmune thyroid problem. And then I have to run what's called reverse T3, which in states of inflammation, your body can make these basically thyroid break molecules that slow down thyroid function. So the point being, it's a lot more complex than just a TSH. And to make it more accessible and, you know. I mean, that's what we've done for the past 12 years, is try to make this dem- as democratized as it can be, to decentralize this so people can have agency over their health and be empowered with this information. It's their body.

Jay Shetty 42:34 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 42:34 They have a right to know. So we have different telehealth models to make it accessible for people, and there's a lot of direct to consumer labs, to be honest with you. Even if you don't have access to a functional medicine doctor or if you don't want a functional medicine doctor, there are great labs. There's one called InsideTracker. I have no connection to these brands. InsideTracker and Base are two that I'm, I've had them on my podcast before. They are brilliant, and you don't need a doctor for it. So you could just order it yourself and you just-

Jay Shetty 43:03 I think it's just good to know, right?

Dr. Will Cole 43:04 Right.

Jay Shetty 43:04 It's, this is so useful because I think it's good to, A, know what to ask for, what to look for.

Dr. Will Cole 43:09 Exactly.

Jay Shetty 43:09 I think as someone, I consider myself someone who's fairly uneducated ... uh, as a, uh, recipient, as a patient of these things.

Dr. Will Cole 43:17 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 43:18 Because until you study yourself, I would say until I started studying myself and reading myself and interviewing people that I wanted to learn from, I had a very limited understanding because that's how I grew up.

Dr. Will Cole 43:30 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 43:30 And so I think for me, at least I find it very interesting to be like, "Okay, well, these are the tests I need to ask for."

Dr. Will Cole 43:36 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 43:37 These are the tests I can do. Because even the

Jay Shetty 43:39 other thing I want to ask you is, what are the most missed healthy food intolerances? Because that's a whole nother thing that-

Dr. Will Cole 43:44 Mm

Jay Shetty 43:44 ... I think we're not aware of.

Dr. Will Cole 43:45 So the, the co- inflammatory core four that I mentioned, that's an obvious one.

Jay Shetty 43:49 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 43:49 But I wouldn't even call those healthy foods, right? I mean, most of them are really processed, refined, boxed foods. But I would say the healthy food sensitivities or food intolerances, the food reactions, and this is really pertinent to most of the people that I talk to because they are eating better than most people, but they're still struggling. So the number one... And let me bring a caveat to all of these foods. It's not necessarily these foods' fault. The heart of what I do in functional medicine is bio-individuality, and even healthy foods, what works for one person may not be right for you. And I would say also, what serves you today and what your body loves now, f- if we're actually fixing the problem of why you had the problem in the first case, then over time you'll be able to do more things. So I'm gonna say these foods with that preface of-

Jay Shetty 44:40 Got it

Dr. Will Cole 44:41 ... don't be fearful of these foods. Don't become orthorexic, which that's a massive problem within wellness. That's, orthorexia is sort of disordered eating around healthy foods. That is not what I'm trying to convey here. So that's important to know. But also, for the people that are struggling with these issues, it could be a massive game changer for them, 'cause they maybe think, "Oh, I've been doing what I thought was healthy, but I was unintentionally sabotaging my health."

Jay Shetty 45:04 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Will Cole 45:05 So number one, people that have SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth that I mentioned. It's linked to things like anxiety and depression. It's linked with auto- other autoimmune problems. It's also the leading cause of things like IBS, irritable bowel syndrome. It's linked to bloating, like uncomfortable bloating. People will s- tell me they feel like they're nine months pregnant even though they're not pregnant-

Jay Shetty 45:24 Yeah

Dr. Will Cole 45:24 ... as far as uncomfortable bloating, and things like acid reflux and GERD. So there are, there's a class of foods that are known as higher FODMAP foods. FODMAPs is an acronym that, that stands for h- uh, fermentable oligosaccharides, disaccharides, monosaccharides, and polyols, which is just a verbose way of saying fermentable sugars. So things like onions and garlic, really healthy foods, right? Cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, uh, asparagus, Brussels sprouts. Really healthy foods, but they're all higher in these fermentable sugars. So people that are thinking they're doing the good things with SIBO are-

Jay Shetty 46:01 I've done that for so long. Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 46:02 Right. They're loading up on-

Jay Shetty 46:03 I've been one of those people. Yeah

Dr. Will Cole 46:04 ... onions and garlic, and they're getting so bloated. They're getting so much gastrointestinal upset. So look, is the problem the f- the eyeballs?

Jay Shetty 46:11 No, I get it. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 46:12 You have to heal the SIBO so you can bring those high FODMAPs in.

Jay Shetty 46:14 Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 46:15 So FODMAPs would be a lot for our people that are, probably a lot of our listeners right now. It's just people that are very well-read, but they're still struggling with these problems. They're eating healthier, but they're still struggling. So look at higher FODMAPs and potentially look at SIBO as the driver of that FODMAP intolerance. And then I am mentioning a lot of, uh, people that have mold toxicity, mycotoxins is what they're called. Higher mold foods can perpetuate flare-ups too. So a lot of grains, even, you know, healthy grains like gluten can... Even gluten-free grains can be higher in mold. Coffee can be higher in mold. Wine, other alcohols can be higher in mold. And people that have a sensitized immune system should look, if they have a mold problem, look at foods that, uh, could potentially contain mold. And then another one that I see are higher histamines. Foods that are higher histamines or histamine liberators or histamine-releasing foods can definitely be problematic for people that have SIBO, these gastrointestinal gut problems, and people that have... I mean, there's other symptoms of histamine intolerance like anxiety, because your gut and brain, this gut feelings connection again here. People that have lots of kombucha, people that have lots of bone broth, people that have lots of fermented pickled foods. Even avocados can be higher in histamines. So [laughs] these are the gray areas that we need to look at.

Jay Shetty 47:35 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 47:35 Because we-

Jay Shetty 47:35 But that's where you need to diagnose yourself effectively-

Dr. Will Cole 47:37 Right

Jay Shetty 47:37 ... because yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 47:38 And or if you're doing all the things and still struggling, these are the areas you need to look at.

Jay Shetty 47:43 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 47:43 To say, "What are these check engine lights in my life? Why is my body reacting to kombucha?" It's not kombucha's fault, but is it the body telling me that this is releasing histamines right now? And then I have to ask the question, why do I have histamine intolerance in the first place? Which unresolved trauma can be part of that? SIBO, mold toxins can be a part of that. Chronic Lyme. The psychological and the physiological. So this is what I see sadly play out in people's lives, but it's only sad until you find out and give it... When, when you give them answers, then it's anything but sad, 'cause then it's this aha moment of like, "Wow, I can do something about it."

Jay Shetty 48:18 I mean, that's exactly [laughs] how I feel.

Dr. Will Cole 48:20 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 48:20 Like, everything you've been talking about, I'm like, "This is the journey I've been on," because it's, it's that feeling of I feel healthy to that feeling-

Dr. Will Cole 48:26 Yeah

Jay Shetty 48:26 ... of recognizing, wow, there's so much of my health that I did not understand. Then getting accurate tests that-

Dr. Will Cole 48:33 Yeah

Jay Shetty 48:33 ... actually tell you what's going on, because I think there's a lot of like, "Oh, you just need a bit of this," or, "You need a bit of that," and that doesn't work. Like, the accurate testing is such an important part of this-

Dr. Will Cole 48:43 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 48:43 ... because then the recommendations can be healthier.

Dr. Will Cole 48:45 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 48:46 I think a lot of recommendations are just based on basic symptoms, and that-

Dr. Will Cole 48:50 Yeah

Jay Shetty 48:50 ... doesn't necessarily always go the right way.

Dr. Will Cole 48:53 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 48:53 And then of course, consistency in the recommendation.

Dr. Will Cole 48:55 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 48:55 That feels like the, the full journey.

Dr. Will Cole 48:57 Absolutely. And I think, look, if what you're doing is working for you and you feel great, don't look for problems where there isn't any.

Jay Shetty 49:03 Of course.

Dr. Will Cole 49:04 But I think we have an epidemic rise of people that are doing all the things, that are really compliant people, that are doing things their doctors are telling them to do.

Jay Shetty 49:13 Totally.

Dr. Will Cole 49:13 But they're still spinning their wheels. That's what I'm talking about here. We have to do better here. So I think that these, these are what I find clinically to be missing links for people. Then they fix a few things, and it really kind of allows their body to take their health to the next level and, and start feeling the way they want to feel. Well, and when you start repairing these things, whether it's repairing their gut health or regulating their nervous system or whatever we're talking about here- All of those foods I just mentioned, almost all of them can be reintroduced.

Jay Shetty 49:42 Yes.

Dr. Will Cole 49:42 So temporarily maybe avoid them, but longer term, let's fix the problem that drove it in the first place.

Jay Shetty 49:47 Yeah. Everyone make sure that you, uh, grab the book Gut Feelings and subscribe to the Art of Being Well podcast, uh, by Will. Uh, Dr. Will Cole, I was, just wanted to ask you, is there anything that you haven't shared on today or something that is on your heart, your mind, or in your gut that you feel like you need to-

Dr. Will Cole 50:04 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 50:05 ... you need to share that we haven't touched upon?

Dr. Will Cole 50:07 No, man. I really appreciate the opportunity. It's been great. We'll have to have you on the Art of Being Well.

Jay Shetty 50:13 I'd love to.

Dr. Will Cole 50:13 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 50:13 I'd love to. But no, this has been so useful because I think you've given us a very 360 degree approach of so many different aspects of our health. Of course, everyone can read the book Gut Feelings to go in depth on all of this and listen to the podcast to-

Dr. Will Cole 50:26 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 50:26 ... understand more about everything we've discussed today, and I hope this is the first of many times-

Dr. Will Cole 50:30 Yes

Jay Shetty 50:30 ... we'll sit down and-

Dr. Will Cole 50:31 I would love that

Jay Shetty 50:32 ... and get to do this. But thank you so much. We

Jay Shetty 50:34 end every episode with a final five, which are the fast five rounds, so you have to answer these in one word or one sentence-

Dr. Will Cole 50:40 Okay

Jay Shetty 50:40 ... maximum. So you can do one sentence.

Dr. Will Cole 50:42 All right. One word or one sentence.

Jay Shetty 50:43 Yeah.

Dr. Will Cole 50:43 Kinda nervous. Let's go, let's go for it. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 50:45 Okay. Uh, question number one, what's the best health advice you've ever received or heard?

Dr. Will Cole 50:50 It's what I actually said earlier. It's one that I'm always telling myself and I'm telling my patients is you can't heal a body you hate. It's a pointer to work that we need to do.

Jay Shetty 51:00 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Will Cole 51:00 As reframing our relationship with our body and with food and with wellness itself.

Jay Shetty 51:06 Love that. Question number two, what's the worst piece of health advice you've ever heard or received?

Dr. Will Cole 51:10 [laughs] Well, the antithesis of that, of that somehow you're going to shame your way into wellness. It's not gonna work.

Jay Shetty 51:18 Yeah. Okay. Uh, question number three, something you used to value for your health, but you don't anymore.

Dr. Will Cole 51:24 Probably taking tons of supplements. I have a simplified version. I know what I feel the best on. Um, so I, to me, food is first. Supplements are a great bonus, targeted 100%, but food is primary. So I think streamlining and figuring out what are the biggest needle movers for myself is definitely that for me.

Jay Shetty 51:44 That's a great answer. Uh, question number four, what's your current purpose in life?

Dr. Will Cole 51:48 Hmm. It's hopefully being a light for God, and it is, and what that means for me is just hopefully staying in my lane in the best of ways and just a- enabling me to bring hope to people that are really struggling with silent health problems, and I d- get to see it play out all the time. This is more than a sentence, but I [laughs] -

Jay Shetty 52:13 No, it's beautiful

Dr. Will Cole 52:13 ... I love what I get to do.

Jay Shetty 52:14 That's beautiful.

Dr. Will Cole 52:15 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 52:15 Uh, fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Dr. Will Cole 52:22 Be kind and think before you speak.

Jay Shetty 52:26 A health law? Have any health laws?

Dr. Will Cole 52:27 [laughs] That will help people s- as social diseases, right, as social relationship disorders bring about physical disorders too. But if you want something a little bit more on a micro level, I would say y- a, a law? You said a law to-

Jay Shetty 52:43 Mm-hmm

Dr. Will Cole 52:43 ... to, to, people should live by? Uh, I would say use food, eat foods that love you back.

Jay Shetty 52:49 Hmm.

Dr. Will Cole 52:50 And find out what they are. Be curious about what they are. Because when you focus on that, the rest of the stuff kind of is put into perspective.

Jay Shetty 52:58 Yeah. I love that. Dr. Will Cole, everyone. The book is called Gut Feelings. The podcast is called The Art of Being Well. Uh, Dr. Will Cole on Instagram as well. Make sure you follow him. Everyone who's been watching or listening, make sure that you tag me and Dr. Will Cole on Instagram, on TikTok, on Twitter. Let us know what resonated with you, what you're gonna try, what you're gonna try and shift. Remember, you don't have to change everything all at once. Just gotta try put one thing into practice and watch how your life changes. Uh, thank you so much-

Dr. Will Cole 53:25 Thanks, man

Jay Shetty 53:25 ... for being here.

Dr. Will Cole 53:26 Appreciate it.

Jay Shetty 53:26 So grateful for you, and I love this conversation.

Dr. Will Cole 53:29 Likewise.

Jay Shetty 53:29 [outro music] If you loved this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with Dr. Daniel Amen on how to change your life by changing your brain.