If You Want To LOVE YOURSELF To The Core, WATCH THIS! | Byron Katie & Jay Shetty

Byron Katie 0:00 All suffering is created, and it's true for every human being. We believe our thoughts, we suffer. We question, then we don't suffer. So an unquestioned life is not worth living, and that's certainly my experience, too.

Jay Shetty 0:12 When you said that you were depressed for over a decade... And, and I want to start by asking you, how would you describe that chapter of your life, of, of what it felt like, and how different it is to how you feel now?

Byron Katie 0:26 Oh, gosh, it was, it was horrible. It is something that I would never want another human being to have to live through. And, and, um, in my world, people, um, are experiencing that. You know, there, there are emails that come in to me, and they're, they're, um, uh... I love my emails that, you know, there is a way out of suffering, but I didn't know that. And to wake up in the morning, Jay, and realize that I was still breathing felt like something was intentionally torturing me, and I was, I was so suicidal. And, and agoraphobic, so just trapped most of the time in my bedroom, and it was, it was not fun. Um, let's see. Describe it to you. Um, my, my self-esteem and self-loathing was so strong that I was sleeping on the floor one morning, as I usually did, and next to my bed because I was so full of, of, um, self-loathing that I didn't believe I deserved a bed. That's the bottom line. So all I deserved was to sleep on the floor. But this particular morning, as I lay sleeping on the floor, I was in, like, this dead sleep, and a cockroach crawled over my foot. I opened my eyes, and basically, all the suffering was gone. All the suffering was gone. And the valuable thing was that I saw when I believed my thoughts, I suffered, but when I didn't believe my thoughts, I didn't suffer. And the way that I saw that is when I opened my eyes, the ego did not have opportunity to fill that space, and everything was present. And in that, I began to laugh. It was like I got the joke. I got it. And I saw, you know, it, um, what I was thinking and believing was the cause of my suffering, and then The Work was born on the floor in, in that moment. You know, it was, it was how, how all suffering is created, and it's true for every human being. We believe our thoughts, we suffer. We question, then we don't suffer. So, um, I... Some great mind said, "An unquestioned life is not worth living," and that's certainly my experience, too.

Jay Shetty 3:18 That's, that's incredible that you were able to birth a whole new way of thinking in that moment, and I wonder, what were those thoughts that you were believing at that time? Where were they coming from? Was it family? Was it parenting? Was it relationships?

Byron Katie 3:33 It, it was-

Jay Shetty 3:34 What, what were those negative thoughts?

Byron Katie 3:35 It, it was from me. It was, um, "There's, uh, something terrible's going to happen. There's something wrong with me. The, the world doesn't really care about me. No one cares about anyone. Um, um, he doesn't care about me," and, "I can't do it," all these, and I didn't even know what the "it" was most of the time [laughs] that I couldn't do. But it was just this, this crazy... And the effect of believing those thoughts is, um, depression, was depression, and guilt, and insanity. And from that moment on the floor, any time my head, we c- would say thoughts, would hit, "Is it true?" It would, it would just... The thoughts would happen, like, "Something terrible's going to happen," and it would evaporate. It couldn't continue after that moment on the floor. And so when people began to ask me, which was really strange, an agoraphobic being asked, anyone being in touch with an agoraphobic is pretty rare. But, uh, people began to just, um, call me from all over the world, it was just, you know, just one by one by one, and, um, and ask what, you know, could they come live with me, you know, the strangest questions. And, um, I didn't know if it was the water I was drinking, the food I was eating I had, 'cause everything had so radically flipped for, just, like, from one polarity to the other. And, but then when they'd ask what happened, and they would t- they would say, uh, "Life isn't worth living," and it would blow my mind because I knew they knew better. I, I knew they knew better because I'm still, I, once you know your own true nature, you see it in everyone and everything.

Jay Shetty 5:29 Mm-hmm.

Byron Katie 5:30 And so I began to show them the experience on the floor. I ask the questions, like, "Something terrible's going to happen." Like, they would say, "Something terrible's going to happen," and I would say, "Is it true?" And that puts them on the floor. Not literally, but it puts them into that experience on the floor. And then, "How do you react? What happens when you believe the thought?" And then they become aware of, in that meditative state, "How do I react when I believe the thought?" of seeing those images of the past, not now, and the future, not now.

Jay Shetty 6:09 Mm-hmm.

Byron Katie 6:10 And, and it moves their focus and attention from presence, where the given life is, the blessed life is, right here, right now, without being so convoluted or c- we're, we're not confused when we are present. And whatever we need to do can be done there, and everything to do it with is also present. And then that third question, how do you react when you believe the thought, they become aware of the images and what they believe onto the images. So we have the, the, the image of, let's say, this morning at breakfast, and we see that image of that past, and then we believe words onto that image, and then the imagined life is created. And really, that is all of life that most humans understand. It keeps us, like, in the not now, in the not now, that past, future, past, future, that is not, is not. And, and, and the movie is so, it's so all-encompassing. We really... Like, I see me at breakfast, but I really believe that's me, even though I can't take it out of my head, I can't touch it, I can't move it, I can't, I can't throw it. I c- there's n- that's not I. So that me of the past, me of the future. Now there's three of me. And now all of these pasts, there are a million of me. There are a million of me in the future. It's like, who am I? And if we just, who would it be, that fourth question, who would I be without the thought something terrible's going to happen, for example, dealing with that one. And it just, it just drops the image of the, of the past where something terrible happened, the future where it's going to happen. It dissolves the nothing, all those Is, and the answer to who am I. It's present. Just present. And then, you know, people are taking this on as a practice, and as they do take it on as a practice, they see these horrors of the, the guilt of the past and the horrors of the future, and they are awake to not I, not I, not I, not I, the, all the not nows. So they are with the one they love, the beloved, themselves, awake to the given. You know, the love of life. Not life imagined, but the love of, of, oh, y- th- you know, you know, Jay, you, you know of all people what it's like to see, to see. It's, oh, my goodness, I could add stuff to it. Like, it sparkles, it shines, and, and it's none of those things, and it's all of those things. And it's, and it's humbling. It's, it's being gifted. And so I understand why people want to be in the now, but how? And of course, I was shown this one way, and there are so many beautiful ways. It doesn't have to be just this or just that. There's something for everyone. And, and, um, and what I love about inquiry is it works with everything.

Jay Shetty 9:45 Mm-hmm.

Byron Katie 9:45 It's not, it doesn't oppose anything. It doesn't even say, "Answer me," you know?

Jay Shetty 9:50 [laughs]

Byron Katie 9:50 It just is, like, like, given freely.

Jay Shetty 9:54 Yeah.

Byron Katie 9:54 And so it, um, after all these years, you know, more than three decade, it still excites me just to, uh, answer your question, and feel like I'm taking over your entire program, [laughs] program.

Jay Shetty 10:08 It's beautiful. I, I love listening. It's beautiful.

Byron Katie 10:11 Uh-huh.

Jay Shetty 10:11 And, and what I'm hearing so wonderfully is when these questions, and you used the word inquiry, it's like when these questions are these genuine, sincere requests and-

Byron Katie 10:25 Mm

Jay Shetty 10:25 ... questions as opposed to these demands, and I feel often our questions in the world are demands to the universe, as opposed to these inquiries. And so we often ask questions, we're always asking questions-

Byron Katie 10:40 Yeah

Jay Shetty 10:41 ... even with our thoughts, but often we're asking demanding questions. Like, why is this happening to me?

Byron Katie 10:47 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 10:47 When is this going to end?

Byron Katie 10:49 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 10:50 Why is this not stopping? And those are not really questions, they're rhetorical demands.

Byron Katie 10:56 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 10:56 And, and I find that when we ask questions like that, we know that, let alone the universe, even our friends would not respond to questions like that, because they're not really looking for an answer. And so y- I love the way you're reminding us. Now, tell us, Katie, if someone right now, and you have shown us the work, you've told us about the questioning process, but if someone right now is, and especially right now, is going through anxiety, depression, suffering from mental health, they are looking at this scenario of the world and they're having those thoughts-

Byron Katie 11:27 Yes

Jay Shetty 11:27 ... and, and one would say they're very valid to have those thoughts, especially right now, and there have been multiple-

Byron Katie 11:32 Yes

Jay Shetty 11:32 ... times in history, what would be the first thing you would say that they need to do in order to realize that there is hope for them? Because I think for so many people, they, they get to this point where they believe their thoughts so much that they feel there is no hope left-

Byron Katie 11:49 Yeah

Jay Shetty 11:49 ... and, and there's no chance, just like you were saying you felt.

Byron Katie 11:53 I would say first, get in touch with your emotions, because they're the most, they're the closest thing to you. They're-

Jay Shetty 12:00 And what blocks us from our emotions? What stops us from them?

Byron Katie 12:04 The truth sets me free, and, and that's my experience Unless it's drugs [laughs] and alcohol. It's, you know, what, what, you know, we do our best. And so I tried all of that, and I did it well, and it took me literally to the floor. But I would say get in touch with your emotions. Like, when we're angry, for example, we feel it, and we tense. And so to first get in touch with your emotions, in other words, notice, notice. And then move up to your head and notice, because those emotions let you know, they remind you of what you're thinking and believing is the cause of your suffering. And so then you can identify the thoughts you're thinking, and then don't trust them to stay. Move them from your head to paper.

Jay Shetty 13:06 Mm.

Byron Katie 13:07 And then, um, sit with those four questions, with, um, like, he doesn't care about me, that belongs on paper, and then you question it using these four questions and, and turnarounds, and the turnarounds are just finding opposites. So it's all, always free. Anything I have of value, if, if I have something of value, it's always free on byronkatie.com and, or thework.com. And, and how to do this is there, because if someone had told me, "You know, when you feel your emotions, just, just get in touch with them, and what are you thinking and believing," I would, I would, [laughs] I would say, "Give me a cigarette."

Jay Shetty 13:50 Yeah, yeah.

Byron Katie 13:51 In the days when we used to smoke. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 13:54 Yeah, and I, I, I love that about getting it down into paper. I think it's so important to get out of our heads.

Byron Katie 14:00 Yes.

Jay Shetty 14:00 And, you know, when things are in your mind, you think that they're there, but-

Byron Katie 14:03 Mm

Jay Shetty 14:03 ... they can get convoluted and polluted. And so-

Byron Katie 14:06 Yeah

Jay Shetty 14:06 ... I often say to people as well, which I love, is getting it out onto paper is almost sometimes voice noting, and recording your own voice, and hearing it.

Byron Katie 14:13 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 14:14 It, it puts you in such an observer mindset-

Byron Katie 14:16 It does, it does

Jay Shetty 14:16 ... when you hear yourself, and you're like, when you can hear yourself, you can hear what you're really trying to say and what you're really trying to communicate, and it's almost like hearing in between the lines for yourself. Same with writing it down-

Byron Katie 14:28 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 14:28 ... when you can read out to yourself, I think those are such powerful tools.

Jay Shetty 14:33 I, I love it when I've heard you say that to judge people is to keep them separate from me, and, and I like that so much, especially right now, because I feel that judgment is what creates so much divide.

Byron Katie 14:47 Yeah, that's-

Jay Shetty 14:48 And sometimes even, even what I find is more subtle is judgment of judgment.

Byron Katie 14:54 Mm.

Jay Shetty 14:55 So, so it's we think that we are being right by judging, but actually, we're simply judging someone for their judgment, if you know what I mean.

Byron Katie 15:05 It, it keeps us separate. It is the fence I put between you and me.

Jay Shetty 15:11 Mm.

Byron Katie 15:11 And, and I feel that separation, so I'm just going to come at you, whether you like it or not, until you understand me, but it's my fence-

Jay Shetty 15:21 Mm

Byron Katie 15:21 ... I have put up between us.

Jay Shetty 15:24 Yes.

Byron Katie 15:25 Um, the cause of all suffering is what we're thinking and believing, so what you and I are talking about right now is the cause of suffering.

Jay Shetty 15:37 Mm.

Byron Katie 15:38 It's, it's what we're thinking and believing. That is attachment. You know, the Buddha talks about attachments, re- religions talk about attachment, and, and, um, gosh, something, there's something else, but we'll say attachment. And, and, um, um, what we're talking about is the most important thing, to identify what we're thinking and believing is to identify the cause of suffering. And to question it is to set ourself free, and to question that really is a meditative process. For example, if I think there's, this is a terrible place, this world is a terrible place, my mind will show me all the images of the past that prove it and the future that says it's gonna happen again. It proves it. What we're thinking and believing is proven within us, but it's, as we say nowadays, fake news. It's fake news, and because it's not real, it's, it's imaging, it's dreaming, it's the dream world. So to ask, "Is it true?" begins to wake us up to reality. And the valid answer, we, when we ask, "Is it true?" to meditate, to get still in that, and not to ask the question of ourselves if we don't really want what we're asking to meet the question.

Jay Shetty 17:07 Yeah.

Byron Katie 17:07 And what we're asking to meet the question is that don't know world that is so unavailable to us when we are living as believers-

Jay Shetty 17:20 Yeah

Byron Katie 17:20 ... in, in these, these terrifying, depressive, um, states of mind.

Jay Shetty 17:26 What are some beliefs that we should have then? Because if we're, if we're believing so many of the wrong thoughts, what are some of the thoughts that we should believe? Is there a thought-

Byron Katie 17:34 Well, words become, like, um, matches for, um, our true nature, and, or a match to the heart. Like, um, if I think there's something wrong with him, or her, or them, you know, a society, for example, but there's something wrong with him, then my mind immediately shows me all the proof. And, but it's not proof, it's a state of mind. And then it shows me the future, where he's gonna do that to me, too, you know, that's gonna happen here, too. And so I don't see that him I'm with. I see who I imagine him to be.

Jay Shetty 18:17 Mm.

Byron Katie 18:18 So that's who I'm talking to. So I like to say no two people I've ever met. We're crazy. We are talking to a phantom, and we're so convinced, and, and, um, so- You know, this, this work wakes us up, wakes me up to reality, and I forgot y- your question, actually, slipped

Jay Shetty 18:38 [laughs] No, my... No, no, that was beautiful. I... My, my question was because you're saying that we sometimes believe our negative thoughts, and that's what creates our suffering-

Byron Katie 18:50 Oh, the replacement

Jay Shetty 18:51 ... are, are there any thoughts that we should have? Are there any beliefs we should have?

Byron Katie 18:55 Well, let's, let's say, um, I think there's something wrong with him, and is it true? Can I really know this? How do I react when I believe the thought? I see the past, future, Anna, Jane, and all of that. Who would I be without it? And I'm just meditating, dropping my story, dropping that identification on him, taking all the Post-Its I believed onto him, and I just see him. And I see him, and with- without what I'm believing onto him. And then when I turn it around, there's something wrong with him, turned around, there's something wrong with me, and I'm not exchanging one belief for another. I am, I am going to try it on as though it were a, a shoe I tried on and I fell in love with in a shoe store. I don't know if it fits. I've got to try it on. So, uh, there's, there's something wrong with him. Turn around, there's something wrong with me. I'm going to try it on. Now, in that situation with him, there's something wrong with me. Okay, my attitude, I was experience a little fear, a lot of separation. There's something wrong with me. I see him differently when I dropped my story on him. That was mine. There's something wrong with me. So I am meditating in a moment in time-

Jay Shetty 20:14 Mm

Byron Katie 20:14 ... and I'm present, and if I see something, if I see something unacceptable in my world, I look to me.

Jay Shetty 20:25 Mm.

Byron Katie 20:25 I don't look to other people. They cannot give me the answers that I'm seeking, and often they say things that enlighten me, that wake me up, that change my life, but I'm the one that heard them.

Jay Shetty 20:42 Mm.

Byron Katie 20:42 And as I'm in a hurry, I was in a hurry, and, and, um, I was, I was, I was g- granted a, a, a, a gift, and it came freely, and, now, that belongs to everyone. And no one has to be open to it, either, but I just know my job, like you know yours. We're, we know our jobs. We-

Jay Shetty 21:07 Absolutely

Byron Katie 21:08 ... give the gift, and, and, and we... It, it grows in us each time we do.

Jay Shetty 21:14 And what about so many people I hear today who are reconnecting with some of the pains in their childhood that they may not have even been aware of? So when we look at, uh, childhood trauma, we look at abandonment issues, we look at the feeling of not feeling nurtured, like we look at the feeling of being rejected or neglected as a child, and we carry this-

Byron Katie 21:38 Yes, we do

Jay Shetty 21:39 ... and it grows, and it's there-

Byron Katie 21:40 We, yes

Jay Shetty 21:41 ... and we, sometimes we don't become aware of it until we're much older.

Byron Katie 21:44 It's so true.

Jay Shetty 21:45 How, how does someone go about processing that? Because I feel that that also reflects in the type of partners we choose for ourselves.

Byron Katie 21:54 It does. It does.

Jay Shetty 21:55 It reflects in our communication with our friends and our bosses-

Byron Katie 21:58 It af-

Jay Shetty 21:58 ... and our colleagues. It creates so many issues.

Byron Katie 22:02 It affects everything. It, it affects our identification. The people I work with, the, so that they understand how to work with it themselves-

Jay Shetty 22:11 Mm

Byron Katie 22:11 ... is I, and I ask them to go into, like go into the trauma, get into the center of that trauma where it was the most painful, and identify, meditating in that situation, and that's asking a lot. But to go back into that situation and identify what they were thinking and believing then.

Jay Shetty 22:35 Mm.

Byron Katie 22:36 Because what they were thinking and believing then was the cause of the trauma. No matter what that person did to me, what I was thinking-

Jay Shetty 22:46 Right

Byron Katie 22:46 ... and believing was the cause of my trauma. So I identify those thoughts, I write them down, and I have a Judge-Your-Neighbor worksheet on my website people can download or work it there, and, and, and it's a form with six questions that include... it allow us to recall what we were thinking and believing then.

Jay Shetty 23:11 Right.

Byron Katie 23:11 So, um, so that supports it. And then their, their thoughts, what they were thinking and believing then, the cause of the trauma, and, um, and then they question those thoughts, and they question that from a meditative state, from that situation, from the center of that, that terrible situation. Doesn't mean the other person isn't guilty, but it's still, what still remains is what I was thinking and believing is the cause of my suffering.

Jay Shetty 23:39 Mm.

Byron Katie 23:40 So I question those thoughts, and, and the trauma breaks, and, um, and I am enlightened to the cause of my suffering, and that is what I was thinking and believing, and then there, I have a lot to do. I have a lot to do after that. It's another worksheet and another worksheet. And, you know, my mother, um, for example, said, um, one day, let's, let's hypothetically say she said, "Byron Kathleen," and I'm just a little kid, I'm just goo goo ga ga, I'm just, you know, da, da, da, da, da, and, and it doesn't mean anything to me. And she says, "Byron Kathleen," and it means nothing to me. And then let's say three weeks go by, da, da, da, da, da, and she says, "Byron Kathleen." And then one of my siblings say, "Byron Kathleen," and, and it, and my mother says it, my father says it, and then one day my mother says it- And I believe

Jay Shetty 24:35 Mm

Byron Katie 24:36 I believe, and prior to that, I was not.

Jay Shetty 24:41 Wow.

Byron Katie 24:42 The moment I believed, I am.

Jay Shetty 24:47 Mm.

Byron Katie 24:48 And the same with I'm a female, I'm this age, I have this color hair, I have this color skin, I have this, and now you have this, and you are that, and you are that. So I'm multiplying, like being in a mirror, and, and the whole world is reflecting what I believe back to me. So to go back to the beginning-

Jay Shetty 25:13 Wow

Byron Katie 25:13 ... and, and-

Jay Shetty 25:14 Wow

Byron Katie 25:14 ... and, and, and, and question, you know, my name is Byron Kathleen, you know? And that's so close to the ego, I don't invite people to go there. But if you're, let's say you- you're raising children, oh, I just, I just... This work is free. All it will cost you is your identity. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 25:38 [laughs]

Byron Katie 25:39 And it'll leave you in a, it'll leave you in a kinder one.

Jay Shetty 25:41 [laughs] That is so powerful, what you, what you were just saying there about constantly taking back to when, what was your belief at that time?

Byron Katie 25:51 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 25:51 What were your thoughts and your belief at that time?

Byron Katie 25:53 Mm.

Jay Shetty 25:54 Because there are so many times when we believe, and we have created a thought that we trust this person, yet we never knew if they were trustworthy. We never-

Byron Katie 26:04 Yeah

Jay Shetty 26:04 ... allowed them to earn our trust. We just gave it to them.

Byron Katie 26:07 Mm.

Jay Shetty 26:08 And then we wonder why they broke it, and it's because at that time, we chose to give them our trust. We chose that.

Byron Katie 26:14 Well, when, when we consider what we were thinking and believing-

Jay Shetty 26:18 Yeah

Byron Katie 26:18 ... you know, we look to ourselves.

Jay Shetty 26:20 Yeah.

Byron Katie 26:20 They didn't, they didn't con me into trusting them. I believed this, this, and this, and I trusted that.

Jay Shetty 26:29 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 26:30 Now, now you say, in that regard, you also say that there's nothing that isn't a gift.

Byron Katie 26:35 Mm.

Jay Shetty 26:35 Uh, it's a friendly universe, you say.

Byron Katie 26:37 Yes.

Jay Shetty 26:38 And, and-

Byron Katie 26:38 Oh my gosh, yes. Oh, it is a friendly universe. I get goosebumps just, just, um, hearing it from you. It is a friendly universe. And but what I'm thinking and believing about th- this, about this universe could use a little work, if I don't love it-

Jay Shetty 26:56 Mm

Byron Katie 26:56 ... as it is. And, and we question what we're thinking and believing about life, and it leaves us in a friendly universe.

Jay Shetty 27:05 Mm.

Byron Katie 27:05 It's, it's the most, it, it, it's a radical thing to wake up to reality. No downside.

Jay Shetty 27:11 It's hard to accept because of our desire to control, and our desire from our ego for things to be the way we want them to be.

Byron Katie 27:21 Yeah, our desire to be God.

Jay Shetty 27:23 Correct.

Byron Katie 27:23 And, and, and that's an, and, and our desire to be God is, um, is an honest thing. It's just flipped into the ego's possession.

Jay Shetty 27:34 Mm.

Byron Katie 27:34 So it's, um, so we question what we're believing, and, um, we become very humble. And then eventually, we see that, that we... Oh, boy, this is, this is, um, this is wild, but still, it's like, I, I believed this universe into being, and if I don't love it, I need to question my universe.

Jay Shetty 28:02 Yeah.

Byron Katie 28:02 And that means question what I believe about you, about me, about them, about it, about God, about everything, and wake up to reality, and without any preconceived idea about what it is.

Jay Shetty 28:17 Mm.

Byron Katie 28:17 And in my experience, it's nameless anyway. Nameless would take away from the beauty. It is that beautiful, and to even claim it is, says what it isn't. It's more than that. It's, it's, um, it's disrespectful for me to even attempt. It's more beautiful than that.

Jay Shetty 28:44 Mm.

Jay Shetty 28:45 And, and I love, I know that my community will be really interested in this, Katie, is how does this then affect our relationships and our communication with those that we love? How does this-

Byron Katie 28:55 Closer, closer, closer, closer, closer. No space. No, no distance. No, no separation. Just living out of our true nature and trusting that. It's a fearless state of mind, which means that there's nothing we cannot accomplish. You know, we wanted to accomplish something. If we don't, we consider, and we consider what we were thinking and believing that stops us. Then inquiry leaves us in this fearless state of mind, and it's, um, and it's really good to be clear what you're going after.

Jay Shetty 29:41 Mm.

Byron Katie 29:42 You know, what it is you really want. And so for me, that's, um, that's, that's a part of the journey. I want people, people to be free, and, um, and, and why am, why am I, why am I doing what I do? Because I have seen they're already free. That leaves me jobless. They're already free. And then I discovered that, that, that what we're thinking and believing, what people are thinking and believing, is the only prison they've got.

Jay Shetty 30:14 Mm.

Byron Katie 30:14 So I see, like, on television, hungry children, people suffering, and I have been in some of those positions, and I have sat in the, in the center of those experience and identified what I was thinking and believing, and other than that, I was okay.

Jay Shetty 30:35 Mm.

Byron Katie 30:35 So I understand- That the world is, again, it's a f- it, it's a friendly universe, Jay, and I'm very open to, um, to it not being, so I continue to [laughs] test it.

Jay Shetty 30:51 [laughs] And your test seems to be proving your hypothesis correct.

Byron Katie 30:56 Um, I see a lot of good.

Jay Shetty 30:59 Yeah.

Byron Katie 30:59 I, I would say I see only good, and anything less than that, I question.

Jay Shetty 31:04 Yeah. I love what you say about the three businesses.

Byron Katie 31:08 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 31:08 Uh, can you share about the three businesses?

Byron Katie 31:10 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 31:11 Because I really like that.

Byron Katie 31:12 If, if, if I look at it at, um, at, like, my daughter, let's say, one of my... The, the way she's raising her children, for example, or one of my sons, there are three kinds of business in all of the universe. There's mine, yours, and God's, and that's the God of your understanding. And if I'm mentally in my daughter's business, I'm sitting here with you, but mentally I'm in her house knowing how she should raise her children, knowing what she should do, all of, all of this. I'm talking to you, but I'm over there in my daughter's business.

Jay Shetty 31:47 Mm-hmm.

Byron Katie 31:48 So, if I'm feeling disconnected from you, I can just ask myself mentally, " Whose business am I in?" And notice, and emotions will let me know, for sure. And then just come right back to right here, right now, and this is where I can make change. I can't make change over there. I'm... [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:09 Yeah.

Byron Katie 32:09 You know, I g- I can't be in all these places at once, but we are. We're all over the world. His business, her business, their business, God's business, the weather's business. [laughs] And, and so-

Jay Shetty 32:20 That's such a great point. That's so true. We rarely are in our own business.

Byron Katie 32:24 Oh, so rarely.

Jay Shetty 32:25 And, and the news takes us to everyone else's business.

Byron Katie 32:27 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 32:28 Our social media takes us to other people's business.

Byron Katie 32:30 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 32:30 We're always talking about other people's business, and how do you get your business done if you're always-

Byron Katie 32:34 Yeah

Jay Shetty 32:34 ... in someone else's business? It's such a great lesson.

Byron Katie 32:36 And when we're present, when we're present, we can observe life from, um, um, out of a, it sounds strange, but out of a proactive state of mind, an understanding, I think is the better word.

Jay Shetty 32:50 Mm-hmm.

Byron Katie 32:50 And, and s- stay present, and watch these things on televisions, and w- and, and, and walk in Black Lives Matter events, and, and we can do the most marvelous things, um, and still be present.

Jay Shetty 33:07 Mm-hmm. That's beautiful.

Byron Katie 33:09 It's, um... But fear, fear stops us from, "I don't have the right clothes," and, and I, "I wonder if, if, uh, I need to take a lunch," and I da, da, da. "Oh, well, this is just, you know, I don't think I'll bother today."

Jay Shetty 33:22 Mm-hmm.

Byron Katie 33:22 You know, uh, you know, what would stop us from doing the right thing, our heart's desire?

Jay Shetty 33:29 Mm-hmm.

Byron Katie 33:30 And literally, our heart's desire, and to live out of that. Fear.

Jay Shetty 33:36 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 33:36 What, Katie, what is the, uh, secret to your long, incredible relationship with Steve?

Byron Katie 33:43 Oh. [laughs] He, he-

Jay Shetty 33:44 What, what, how did you both find, how did you both find each other? How did you both know that you were right for each other, and how did you continue to create that?

Byron Katie 33:51 He, he, he, he's better at telling this story, but-

Jay Shetty 33:55 [laughs]

Byron Katie 33:55 ... but, um, um, my, um, um, a, a friend of mine said that I just needed to meet him, and, um, and that, um, he's the one person in the world that could write, um, um, my book, Loving What Is. And, um, and, uh, oh, gosh, how do I tell the story? He's so good at it.

Jay Shetty 34:21 [laughs]

Byron Katie 34:22 Um, you know, the bottom line, oh, this sounds, this sounds so... He asked me to marry him, and I didn't know why not.

Jay Shetty 34:30 [laughs]

Byron Katie 34:31 And that's the truth of it. And I asked my three grown children, "Do you, do you have a reason why I shouldn't marry Steven?" And they didn't have one, and I didn't have one. And what I knew of Steven is he is good, and kind, and wise, and there just was no reason in the world not. But when you have a perfect life, when you're never lonely, l- let's say I'm, I'm always alone and never lonely, as far as people go. Um, I don't need anyone. And, and I married him, and he, I mean, just, he is just so completely lovable.

Jay Shetty 35:13 [laughs]

Byron Katie 35:13 And dear, and kind, and, and, um, just, I don't know how the, how this story sounds, but, um, who wouldn't love that?

Jay Shetty 35:23 Absolutely.

Byron Katie 35:24 You know, it's goodness, and kindness, and fairness, and brilliance, and oh, the, you know, all the things. I, um, in my life before the work, the opposite would attract me, um, looks, and the real man, and the, the, the, you know, all the, the, the usual, usual. And, um, I didn't do well in those areas. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 35:52 It's, that's, that's such a powerful point. I'm so glad you raised that, because what we're attracted to is also what we're thinking and believing.

Byron Katie 36:01 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 36:01 And so, sometimes when we say, "Well, this is my type," or, "This is the kind of guy or girl," or whoever it is, "that I'm attracted to," what we're saying is we think and believe that this will make us happy.

Byron Katie 36:14 Yes.

Jay Shetty 36:14 That, the, their appearance, their job, their status, their-

Byron Katie 36:19 Yes

Jay Shetty 36:19 ... whatever it may be, will make us happy.

Byron Katie 36:21 No.

Jay Shetty 36:22 And we don't question that. We wonder why the person let us down. But it, using your methodology, The Work, as soon as we go back to what were we thinking and believing at that time, we start to write that what we thought and believed would make us happy is what let us down.

Byron Katie 36:38 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 36:38 Not that person.

Byron Katie 36:40 Yeah, but we were thinking and believing about that human being-

Jay Shetty 36:44 Yeah

Byron Katie 36:44 ... um, was the cause of our, our attraction.

Jay Shetty 36:48 Yes.

Byron Katie 36:48 But once we question what we were thinking and believing about the human being, uh, it loses its validity really, and leaves us in an open state of mind where we're, uh, more able to see and hear, rather than think over.

Jay Shetty 37:06 Yes. Yes. So well said, and that's, it's really registering. And for everyone who's listening or watching right now, when, when you're listening to this, I really hope that the repetition, every time Katie keeps talking about thinking and believing, what are your thoughts and what are your beliefs? If you genuinely revisit those pivotal, crucial, transitionary moments of your life, you, you recognize that all of that pain and suffering that you are experiencing or holding onto comes from a thought and a belief that you're still holding onto.

Byron Katie 37:39 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 37:39 Sometimes we're holding on for decades to a thought and belief that this person can still make me happy, and that's why we want them to be back into our lives. We are holding onto a belief that only that job can make me happy, or only-

Byron Katie 37:52 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 37:52 ... that thing can make me happy. That is a thought and belief, and in that thought and belief is encapsulated all of our suffering. It's almost taking a suffering collaborative.

Byron Katie 38:02 And then when we get that job, we can't appreciate it because we're taking the same, same thinking into that job. So really, not a lot changes. Maybe the money, but that's never enough either.

Jay Shetty 38:15 Yeah. It's so profound for me. It's really, hearing you repeat it today, and, and I've heard it before from you, but hearing you repeat it today, and I'm really hoping everyone who's listening is feeling the same way, every time you say it, it's just gonna step deeper and deeper and deeper in-

Byron Katie 38:28 Yeah

Jay Shetty 38:28 ... into my head, to my heart, so.

Byron Katie 38:30 And it does work. It takes stillness. It's a meditative practice, you know, sitting, and is it true? And then having the courage to sit in how do I react? How do I treat that person? How do I treat myself when I believe the thought? And then I get still and I witness, and I'm not guessing at how I react and how I treat-

Jay Shetty 38:50 Yes

Byron Katie 38:50 ... that person and how I treat myself, I'm witnessing real deal, and who would I be without it? And then I get to see the same situation again, minus, as I said earlier, the Post-its I was putting on the event, and I get to witness the real world.

Jay Shetty 39:10 Absolutely.

Byron Katie 39:10 I'm sitting in the old world, new.

Jay Shetty 39:15 Amazing.

Byron Katie 39:15 It's so... And then I have a lot of amends to make, you know? I need to, um, it, go back to that person, admit my wrong, and, um, apologize, make it right, and start, start over. It's, um, it's, um, living, it's, enlightenment has no power until it's lived.

Jay Shetty 39:38 Yeah.

Byron Katie 39:38 So to-

Jay Shetty 39:39 Totally agree

Byron Katie 39:39 ... live it out, it goes into the identity, the cells of this apparent body, and, and it's, like, it, it wouldn't overlook anything. Love is a power that leaves nothing out.

Jay Shetty 39:52 So true. So true. Katie, I'd like to, uh, share these final two segments with you. This segment of the interview is called fill in the blanks. So I read a statement and I ask you to fill in the blanks for us, uh, and we walk through them. So let's do that. So my first one for you is, thoughts and judgments are, and you can fill in the blanks.

Byron Katie 40:14 Thoughts.

Jay Shetty 40:16 Okay. True freedom starts with...

Byron Katie 40:21 Inquiry. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 40:22 Beautiful. Being present means...

Byron Katie 40:27 Love.

Jay Shetty 40:28 Most people believe...

Byron Katie 40:32 In goodness.

Jay Shetty 40:34 The work has allowed me to...

Byron Katie 40:37 Be free.

Jay Shetty 40:39 Change is hardest when...

Byron Katie 40:42 My mind's not open to the world.

Jay Shetty 40:46 Yes. I have no tolerance for...

Byron Katie 40:49 To be continued.

Jay Shetty 40:50 [laughs]

Byron Katie 40:51 Life, life will show me what I have no tolerance for.

Jay Shetty 40:54 That's, that's a beautiful answer.

Byron Katie 40:56 You know, I, I think of pain, but even physical pain is either remembered or anticipated.

Jay Shetty 41:01 Yeah. That's a beautiful answer. I like it.

Jay Shetty 41:07 And now I want to ask you what is our final five. So this is the final five, where you answer, and that was beautiful, by the way, Katie, you answer every answer with one word to one sentence maximum. So these are five powerful questions.

Byron Katie 41:20 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 41:21 So these are your final five, Katie. This is your first one. What did you once pursue but no longer value?

Byron Katie 41:30 Power.

Jay Shetty 41:31 Beautiful. Second question, what do you know to be absolutely true?

Byron Katie 41:38 Nothing.

Jay Shetty 41:40 Oh, wow, okay. Uh, third question, what do you feel is so right but other people disagree with you on? What is something that you know to be true, but other people would disagree or debate?

Byron Katie 41:54 That you're beautiful.

Jay Shetty 41:55 [laughs] I love that. Okay, question number four. If you could create a law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would that law be?

Byron Katie 42:05 Honesty.

Jay Shetty 42:07 Mm.

Byron Katie 42:07 Authenticity.

Jay Shetty 42:09 Mm. And your fifth and final question, what was the biggest lesson you've learned in the last 12 months?

Byron Katie 42:17 There's nothing out of order.

Jay Shetty 42:19 Oh, wow. Thank you so much for watching that video. If you enjoyed it, here's another one I think you'll love.

Guest 42:26 People behave based on how they were loved, and then how they were able to process it, that, that in a way to love other people.