Jay & Radhi: The BIGGEST LIE About “The Right Time” to Have Kids

1. 0:00 – 0:45

   Intro

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      I do not want kids Being a mom is amazing. It's the best thing I'm 33, and I have no kids

   2. RDRadhi Devlukia0:07

      Being a mom is literally the best thing ever

   3. SPSpeaker0:10

      Do not have kids And I would argue it's one of the most important decisions- You wanna have kids?

   4. RDRadhi Devlukia0:14

      No.

   5. SPSpeaker0:14

      And I have no kids Most important decisions, who you decide to have or share- When are you going to have kids?

   6. RDRadhi Devlukia0:19

      There's no benefit to asking that question. Saying that to someone who is really struggling, it can end up triggering something so deeply

   7. SPSpeaker0:25

      Do I know how my life is gonna change, and am I ready to embrace that change?

   8. RDRadhi Devlukia0:30

      The older that you get as a woman, the more difficult it is to conceive

   9. SPSpeaker0:33

      The pressure of having a child financially is actually one of the biggest factors in why people are scared of having children. This is something that I hear a lot when we're back

2. 0:45 – 3:53

   When Are You Going to Have Kids?

   1. SPSpeaker0:45

      in London-

   2. RDRadhi Devlukia0:45

      Yeah, for sure

   3. SPSpeaker0:46

      ... is when are you going to have kids?

   4. RDRadhi Devlukia0:49

      Yep. It's a big question, especially after you hit 30s. It's, uh, something, especially the aunties out there, they, um, just really like knowing-

   5. SPSpeaker0:59

      [laughs]

   6. RDRadhi Devlukia0:59

      ... for some reason, or they want, they want to know what's happening. Uh, and I think a lot of people struggle with it. My friends really do, especially my friends who are not even a- in a relationship at the age of 35 or f- you know, in their late 30s and they haven't got into a relationship, and then they're really scared about the idea of when am I gonna have children? And then the pressure of people asking on top of that, I think more so for women than men, it's just really ... It can be really difficult for so many people to hear that regularly and not know when it's gonna happen for them.

   7. SPSpeaker1:30

      Yeah, talk to me about that pressure because I, I think you're right, women get it more than men.

   8. RDRadhi Devlukia1:33

      Definitely

   9. SPSpeaker1:34

      And they hear it a lot more often from a lot more people. So talk to me a bit about that pressure because I may not even understand it fully because that's not really something that-

   10. RDRadhi Devlukia1:43

       Totally

   11. SPSpeaker1:43

       ... men get hit with that often.

   12. RDRadhi Devlukia1:45

       Yeah. I think, you know, biologically, look, it is true, the older that you get as a woman, the more difficult it is to conceive. And so I think biologically women have this internal clock that is ticking, and whether you're unsure about having children or whether you really want them, you feel it internally that your body is aging and what that means because you've been told that from such a young age. That as a woman, when you, you have to have children, the ideal age to have children is in your 20s. As soon as you hit your 30s, it's gonna get harder. And so I think you feel it in your body, and you notice changes that are happening which lead you to believe that it's come, kind of getting to the end of the time period where it's gonna be easy for you to conceive. And then I think for a lot of women who aren't even in relationships yet, it's like, "God, I have to find my partner, and I have to get pregnant within the next two years," or whatever it is. Yeah, I think it's a mixture of media and a mixture of people around you, and the reality of the situation being unfortunately that we do have a body clock.

   13. SPSpeaker2:44

       Yeah. And I did some research before the episode, and it said that women born in 2007 are projected to have their first child by age 35 versus 31 for their mothers.

   14. RDRadhi Devlukia2:56

       Yes. So true

   15. SPSpeaker2:58

       And girls born in 2025 may not reach that milestone until age 36

   16. RDRadhi Devlukia3:02

       Mm.

   17. SPSpeaker3:03

       And so it's going up gradually. And so anyone who's feeling alone or anyone who is thinking, "Oh, gosh, like, maybe it's just me," the truth is it's not just you. It is the trend, and I think often we don't look at statistics as a way of understanding we're not alone because the trends show what everyone around you is doing-

   18. RDRadhi Devlukia3:21

       Mm

   19. SPSpeaker3:21

       ... even if you feel everyone around you is having kids, right? I think a lot of people look around, they go, "Well, everyone on Instagram has kids, and all my friends have kids, and everyone does. It's just me. I'm the one who's been left behind. Either I don't have kids, or I haven't found my person yet." And the reality is the stats show no, you're not alone at all. Pretty much everyone around you is getting older-

   20. RDRadhi Devlukia3:42

       Yeah

   21. SPSpeaker3:42

       ... is having kids older, and that's much more normal. And I think when you understand that, it kinda frees you up from some of that pressure. But what's, what's the different kind of pressure that people get from, like, family, society,

3. 3:53 – 7:57

   So, Do You Want to Have Kids?

   1. SPSpeaker3:54

      friends? Like, like, have you noticed any patterns or differences in what you hear and ... I think there's two things that I find really interesting. The first is no one ever asks the question, do you want kids?

   2. RDRadhi Devlukia4:04

      Yes

   3. SPSpeaker4:05

      Or you will maybe from a friend or someone you're very close to, but generally people will skip that question. It's really strange because when you ask the question, when are you having kids, it's an assumption that people want kids, that people can conceive and have kids-

   4. RDRadhi Devlukia4:20

      Yeah, that's the hardest

   5. SPSpeaker4:20

      ... which today we'll talk about that. That's a whole nother area. It's quite an insensitive and unthoughtful question. I- it comes with good intent.

   6. RDRadhi Devlukia4:29

      Mm.

   7. SPSpeaker4:29

      People are not ... People are excited. People are whatever. But if you look at it in reality, it doesn't make sense as a question. It's like saying to someone like, "Uh, when are you gonna start a business?" And the person's like, "I'm happy in my job. Like, I, I don't wanna start a business."

   8. RDRadhi Devlukia4:43

      Mm.

   9. SPSpeaker4:43

      Or like, "When are you gonna leave your job and find a better job?" And it's like, "I don't know if I need to leave my job. Like, why, why are you assuming that?" But we assume everyone wants kids, can have kids, and is excited about that.

   10. RDRadhi Devlukia4:57

       I think the biggest part of it is the insensitivity about it, and I know people don't mean it in that way. But I think nowadays we're all aware that more people than not are having miscarriages or not being able to conceive. I think it's, like, one in five women have miscarriages, and so we all have girlfriends, at least, like, five women in our life that one of them will probably have had a miscarriage. And I think now we are aware of that when people DM me or comment on stuff, or even the craziest thing is I will sometimes have videos where a little bit of my belly's popping out a bit or, like, maybe I've just eaten and I'm a bit bloated, and people are, "Oh my gosh, are you pregnant?" And I'm like, first of all, okay, I actually don't mind if people think I'm pregnant based on how I look, but I always think if someone's saying that to someone who is really struggling to conceive, to have a baby, not sure what they're doing, it can end up triggering something so deeply. So it's kind of like what is the benefit of me asking when are you having children, and what's the benefit of me writing it in a public forum questioning whether that person is pregnant or not? 'Cause if they are pregnant and they haven't told you, they probably don't want to tell you, and that's the reality of it. People go through different phases in their life where they really want children, and then they're not sure, and then they're trying to figure themselves out and feel like it's not the right time. And there's so many parts of life where you can... feel a different way about something. But I always struggle with the idea of, oh, you know, are we doing it in the wrong way, or are we doing it in the right way? Like, yes, I think, you know, health aspect of it, we are, it is better to have children when you're younger according to your health. But then when I think about it with mindset, if I had had children when I was in my 20s, I'm not sure I would've been a version of myself that has space to have a child, look after it in the right way, create the life that I would've wanted to for that child. But I would've h- I would have done that because of pressure of people telling me that the 20s is when you should do it. And then I speak to women who are in their late 30s having children. They say, "I'm so glad, I'm so grateful that I had children at a later age. I now can spend so much time with them. I figured my life out. I've spent time with my partner. I feel like I'm in a stable place financially. All of these things are in place for me to really bring up this child how I want to do." And so I think there's so many, obviously not, there is no right, right answer, but I do think it's difficult going through, I'm sure anyone listening, I don't know whether you've been through this, but in my 20s I thought growing up I would have both my children, or the two children that I thought I wanted, in my 20s. No, like, I was gonna be a young mom in my 20s that was pregnant, looking cute, you know, just, uh, getting, like, fit after my pregnancy. You know, I had a vision of what that looked like. And then my life changed dramatically. Our life changed dramatically, and I felt like I went through a whole journey of really trying to having to figure out so much more about myself to feel even comfortable about inviting another soul into my life that I then would be responsible for, and I would, would want to give them the best of myself. And so I think it's, it's really hard for women, honestly.

   11. SPSpeaker7:53

       Yeah.

   12. RDRadhi Devlukia7:53

       I think it really is.

   13. SPSpeaker7:54

       Yeah. You, you brought up two really good things. I think

4. 7:57 – 12:31

   Are You Prepared to Raise Kids?

   1. SPSpeaker7:58

      one part is the idea that when you ask the question, "When are you having kids?" If that person's just had a miscarriage, it's really, really tough to face-

   2. RDRadhi Devlukia8:08

      Oh

   3. SPSpeaker8:09

      ... that question, and they try and smile and-

   4. RDRadhi Devlukia8:12

      Oh, really?

   5. SPSpeaker8:13

      ... hold a s- hold a, you know, positive demeanor in that environment, and then they feel pain afterwards. Or let's say they're going through IVF treatment, which so many of our friends are as well-

   6. RDRadhi Devlukia8:23

      Yeah

   7. SPSpeaker8:23

      ... and so many people we know, and it's not going that well right now. Again, it's become an emotional reaction for that person. And then there's the person who's like, "Well, I don't wanna have kids at all." Now, it may start a debate that they don't really wanna have because they don't need to convince you or anyone else. And so those first two, though, I've seen that be so hard. I've had so many friends in the last 24 to 36 months who've gone through one, two, three, five rounds of IVF.

   8. RDRadhi Devlukia8:53

      So many.

   9. SPSpeaker8:53

      Had multiple miscarriages. And whenever that question or conversation comes up at family dinner or anywhere, it's so emotionally difficult for that individual.

   10. RDRadhi Devlukia9:03

       Mm.

   11. SPSpeaker9:04

       And just, just to be really clear, me and Radhi have not gone through either of those things. And, and just to be-

   12. RDRadhi Devlukia9:09

       No

   13. SPSpeaker9:09

       ... you know, totally transparent and honest, we haven't. But for anyone who is going through that, I've had so many of my friends come up to me and just say like, "Dude, I just, I'm struggling."

   14. RDRadhi Devlukia9:19

       Struggling.

   15. SPSpeaker9:20

       This is men, too, like, coming up to me-

   16. RDRadhi Devlukia9:21

       Yeah

   17. SPSpeaker9:22

       ... and just being like, "My wife's just been through this. I'm just trying to be there for her, but then all her friends keep saying like, 'When are you having kids, and what's going on?'" And then she's coming to me, and it's, it's a real thing. And so I, I'm really glad that you raised that point because I think it's often forgotten or missed. And the other thing I was gonna say is I think one of the biggest challenges with humans is that we try to time things perfectly. Now, the biological clock is real. Totally understand. Let's, let's start with that foundation. But the idea of when are you having kids is the wrong question. I think the right questions are actually do I know how my life will change-

   18. RDRadhi Devlukia10:01

       Mm

   19. SPSpeaker10:02

       ... when I have a child, and am I ready to embrace that change?

   20. RDRadhi Devlukia10:07

       Right. Right. Right.

   21. SPSpeaker10:07

       Now, the truth is you won't know fully how your life is gonna change. So I know parents will say, "Jay, you never know, your life will change in the most incredible ways and crazy ways." I agree with that, too. I don't know. I don't have kids. But what I can observe is am I prepared for the basics of that change? Do I know? It's like changing anything in life. Am I aware of how my sleep patterns may change, how my social life may change, how my relationship with my partner may change? I was looking into the statistics about this because I was talking to a client of mine, and they were telling me that after they had their firstborn, him and his wife went through the toughest part of their marriage.

   22. RDRadhi Devlukia10:46

       Oh, wow.

   23. SPSpeaker10:47

       And when I looked into the statistics, it showed that most men feel after their partner gives birth that they feel unloved, they feel like a second priority-

   24. RDRadhi Devlukia11:01

       [laughs] They are

   25. SPSpeaker11:01

       ... and they feel un-thought about.

   26. RDRadhi Devlukia11:03

       Yeah.

   27. SPSpeaker11:03

       And that's also why the trends show that more men are likely to cheat at that time-

   28. RDRadhi Devlukia11:08

       No way

   29. SPSpeaker11:09

       ... when, either when their wife are pregnant or when their wife gives birth bec- again, I'm not condoning this, I'm just talking about the statistics

   30. RDRadhi Devlukia11:15

       Oh, right
5. 12:31 – 16:23

   A Different Mindset on Being a Parent

   1. RDRadhi Devlukia12:31

      um, the process is never going to be the same and never going to be understood as fully f- by a man as it is obviously for a woman, because a woman has to literally carry that child inside of her-

   2. SPSpeaker12:44

      For sure

   3. RDRadhi Devlukia12:44

      ... for those nine months. And so I think there's always gonna be slight disconnects between how men perceive the situation and how women do. But I remember I was thinking about how, um, you know, I remember at the beginning when we first met, you really didn't want to have children, or, like, you were- you weren't sure whether you did, and it was so-

   4. SPSpeaker13:01

      That was right at the beginning

   5. RDRadhi Devlukia13:02

      ... that was right at the beginning, yeah.

   6. SPSpeaker13:03

      I'd just come out the monastery and at that time.

   7. RDRadhi Devlukia13:05

      Exactly, and your mindset was like that. And I read this quote actually that I thought for anybody thinking of not having children, I thought it was really well put. It said, "Motherhood is not- motherhood is not the only way to mother. You can mother a movement, a garden, a dream, or a community."

   8. SPSpeaker13:18

      Mm.

   9. RDRadhi Devlukia13:18

      And I remember when we first met back, way back when, you had said you wanted to help so many more people, and you weren't sure whether you wanted to put all your emphasis onto one person or into one child. And so many people recently that I have met, or actually not so many, quite a few people that I've met recently have said that they don't want to have children because they feel they are saving the child from all the pain that's happening in the world. They don't think this environment is an environment to bring children into the world. I know there's a big following of that philosophy from friends that we know, and even in s- specific communities, and I was wondering whether you'd heard that or what your thoughts were on it.

   10. SPSpeaker13:56

       Yeah. I think, I think for me it was very much a feeling of I feel I get to express a lot of paternal energy-

   11. RDRadhi Devlukia14:03

       Yeah, totally

   12. SPSpeaker14:05

       ... and I know it's not the same, so I'm not trying to say it's the same. But I experience a lot of paternal energy in my work. I feel like I'm a parent to lots of people-

   13. RDRadhi Devlukia14:13

       Mm

   14. SPSpeaker14:14

       ... and so that part of my life is quite full.

   15. RDRadhi Devlukia14:17

       I mean, if you think about Radhanath Swami, who is a spiritual teacher, and all the spiritual teachers that are out there who are not in relationships and don't have children, all they do is father people-

   16. SPSpeaker14:26

       Yeah

   17. RDRadhi Devlukia14:26

       ... or mother people, and are there for them through every type of problem and supporting them, caring for them. So I can totally understand how people could feel like that.

   18. SPSpeaker14:35

       That was how I used to feel-

   19. RDRadhi Devlukia14:37

       Yeah

   20. SPSpeaker14:37

       ... for sure. And, and I think there's a lot of people now who are fearful of raising a child in a world with social media-

   21. RDRadhi Devlukia14:45

       Yeah

   22. SPSpeaker14:46

       ... the mental health challenges that come with it, the security and safety issues-

   23. RDRadhi Devlukia14:50

       The schooling system

   24. SPSpeaker14:51

       ... that we're seeing in the world.

   25. RDRadhi Devlukia14:52

       Yeah.

   26. SPSpeaker14:53

       School systems that are failing children, the worry with, I mean, that's just, like, war. Like, there's, there's just so much-

   27. RDRadhi Devlukia15:02

       Mm-hmm

   28. SPSpeaker15:02

       ... that I think people are becoming aware of. Again, it's not lots of people, it's, it's some people that I know that are having these conversations, and, and I think all of those are valid for that person. Now, at the same time, I know people who are raising amazing kids-

   29. RDRadhi Devlukia15:15

       Yeah

   30. SPSpeaker15:16

       ... that are gonna go on to become future leaders of the world in their areas, and I know amazing people raising beautiful children that I think will have a beautiful impact-
6. 16:23 – 21:16

   Delaying Parenthood Because of Financial Constraints

   1. SPSpeaker16:23

      is normal changes every 25 years.

   2. RDRadhi Devlukia16:25

      Yeah.

   3. SPSpeaker16:26

      And so this idea of, well, everyone's doing it is a messy metric because what everyone's doing today will be different from what everyone's doing 25 years from now-

   4. RDRadhi Devlukia16:35

      So silly

   5. SPSpeaker16:35

      ... and different to what everyone did 25 years ago.

   6. RDRadhi Devlukia16:37

      Mm.

   7. SPSpeaker16:38

      And so trying to do what everyone's doing, it does make life easier. There's a reason why we wanna do things at the same time as people-

   8. RDRadhi Devlukia16:45

      Yeah

   9. SPSpeaker16:45

      ... because you can share in that experience, and I think that's important, and we need that. But if you're not ready for something, and this, this was a really interesting statistic, it said 36% of adults under 50 without kids say they're delaying parenthood because they don't think they can afford it.

   10. RDRadhi Devlukia17:02

       Oh, wow.

   11. SPSpeaker17:03

       And that, you know, has become such a challenge. 66% of parents feel consumed by money worries versus 39% of non-parents. So-

   12. RDRadhi Devlukia17:15

       That's true. Kid's expensive. [laughs]

   13. SPSpeaker17:17

       The pressure of having a child financially is actually one of the biggest factors in why people are scared of having children. I actually read that for someone to raise their child from age zero to 18 is going to cost anywhere between 233,000 to $310,000.

   14. RDRadhi Devlukia17:37

       No.

   15. SPSpeaker17:38

       And by the way, that doesn't include college-

   16. RDRadhi Devlukia17:39

       Wow

   17. SPSpeaker17:40

       ... because 18's before college. So if you add tuition fees if your child's gonna go to college, you're adding potentially another 30, 50, 100, $200,000 depending on where they go. And so that's a incredible amount of money.

   18. RDRadhi Devlukia17:54

       That's a lot.

   19. SPSpeaker17:54

       It's a lot of money. And so that has become a real factor, and I've heard that from a lot of people-

   20. RDRadhi Devlukia18:00

       Mm

   21. SPSpeaker18:00

       ... saying, "We really wanna have another kid, but-We just don't know if we can afford it

   22. RDRadhi Devlukia18:04

       Yes

   23. SPSpeaker18:04

       And then again, if that person gets asked, "When are you having kids?" It triggers financial insecurity, it triggers economic uncertainty, it triggers a feeling of not being worthy enough-

   24. RDRadhi Devlukia18:15

       Yeah

   25. SPSpeaker18:15

       ... not being good enough. Like, I don't think we realize how that question, like you said, it affects your belief about your appearance. Imagine someone's trying to lose weight, gain muscle, strengthen, and someone says, "You look like you're pregnant." Like, that, that affects them-

   26. RDRadhi Devlukia18:30

       Totally

   27. SPSpeaker18:30

       ... on that perspective. If someone's struggling to pay their bills and having a child, you ask them when are you gonna have kids, they're now worried about-

   28. RDRadhi Devlukia18:38

       Especially if they really want children and they're trying to figure it out financially, and they really want them, but they're finding it difficult to even think of how that would be possible

   29. SPSpeaker18:45

       Yeah. And I think we do often, I do sometimes think we- we're living in an overly sensitive world, but I think this, and- and I'm one of those people who say sometimes we're being overly sensitive about everything these days.

   30. RDRadhi Devlukia18:55

       Yes.
7. 21:16 – 23:20

   Parenthood Equates to Success

   1. SPSpeaker21:16

      throughout the day. That's why I co-founded Juni, a sparkling adaptogenic drink made with powerful ingredients like ashwagandha and lion's mane. It's designed to boost your mood, support your focus, and give you natural energy, all without the crash. A new classic reimagined. We're so excited to officially launch our new lemonade iced tea flavor. When we created Juni, my goal was simple. I wanted to make drinks that help you feel balanced and energized without compromise. Our upgraded take on the classic Arnold Palmer is crisp, refreshing, and crafted with adaptogens to support energy, focus, and mood, all with zero sugar. Be among the first to try it. Available exclusively at drinkjuni.com, where you can use the code ONPURPOSE20 for 20% off your first order. Cheers to your daily mood boost. We all want to feel better, to have more energy and more focus throughout the day. That's why I co-founded Juni, a sparkling adaptogenic drink made with powerful ingredients like ashwagandha and lion's mane. It's designed to boost your mood, support your focus, and give you natural energy, all without the crash. Get your daily mood boost with Juni at Whole Foods Market, or head to drinkjuni.com to find a store near you. There's something that's really interesting here, which is this idea of parenthood still equates to success and purpose, and I think as society-

   2. RDRadhi Devlukia22:44

      Mm

   3. SPSpeaker22:44

      ... it's seen that way. Like, if you're a parent, you're doing the right thing, th- you're normal, you're doing something good. And I actually found some quotes from Tracee Ellis Ross on rejecting societal scripts. This was in The New York Times. And she said, "It undermined my sense of worth and joy until I realized it was somebody else's idea."

   4. RDRadhi Devlukia23:04

      Mm.

   5. SPSpeaker23:04

      "I do not believe that my life is unworthy because I don't have children. I do not believe that my life is unworthy because I don't have a partner."

   6. RDRadhi Devlukia23:12

      Mm.

   7. SPSpeaker23:12

      "I mother all over the place," you were saying this. "I do very valued things in the world for people I love." That's a really interest- like,

8. 23:20 – 29:02

   Can a Child Fix a Broken Relationship?

   1. SPSpeaker23:20

      you know, going back to that point that you made of people feel alone if they don't do that.

   2. RDRadhi Devlukia23:27

      I do think, though, when you, when you think about all spiritual paths, religious paths, when you think about evolution and how they talk about the human body, there is such a strong, there is no question of, in any of those things, whether men and women were made to procreate. Think about Adam and Eve, think about any of the scriptures, any of the religions that you've seen. Everything does lead to you are here to procreate, even as our, if- if you're thinking about-

   3. SPSpeaker23:57

      Yeah

   4. RDRadhi Devlukia23:57

      ... take God out of this, how the human body has been created, it does show towards-That is why we are here

   5. SPSpeaker24:05

      That's survival. I mean, that's survival

   6. RDRadhi Devlukia24:06

      ... that is survival. And so it's interesting. I don't have the answer for it, but when I do think about it in that way, it's kind of in- it's interesting to think about, okay, so how come we have gone towards this path of saying we shouldn't be doing something that our body's made for, that if you believe in a certain religion or a specific path, they are saying that is what our essence is, is to create a beautiful child in this world to help other people, whatever that notion is. But that there's such a strong wave going against it, which, uh, is, it's just interesting because I struggle with that-

   7. SPSpeaker24:37

      I-

   8. RDRadhi Devlukia24:37

      ... the idea of both

   9. SPSpeaker24:38

      I think everyone today is looking at their inner child and then thinking about having a child, right?

   10. RDRadhi Devlukia24:46

       Mm. It's strange.

   11. SPSpeaker24:46

       Like, you're, you're almost so aware of how much therapy, healing, and work you need-

   12. RDRadhi Devlukia24:52

       Right

   13. SPSpeaker24:52

       ... that you feel inadequate and unqualified.

   14. RDRadhi Devlukia24:54

       You feel like a child having a child.

   15. SPSpeaker24:55

       Correct.

   16. RDRadhi Devlukia24:55

       Yeah.

   17. SPSpeaker24:56

       Like, you literally feel like, "I haven't even figured out what's going on here. How am I meant to figure out what's going on there?"

   18. RDRadhi Devlukia25:01

       I'm sure there's a lot of unworthiness that plays into it. Like, when you, if you don't feel good in yourself, you think, "How am I gonna do that to a child?" And then at this, and on the flip side, we've spoken about this before, that there are so many couples who think having a child will help their relationship.

   19. SPSpeaker25:16

       Oh my gosh. Uh, we have to talk about this.

   20. RDRadhi Devlukia25:18

       Yeah.

   21. SPSpeaker25:18

       That's why I'm so glad you raised that.

   22. RDRadhi Devlukia25:19

       And that's really interesting 'cause I think there's one side where people don't feel prepared enough, and I think I've gone on that side a lot where I'm like, "God, I need to be way better before I have a child." And then there's this other side, and thinking whether you- whether you're gonna mess the child up. Like, there's so many things that have gone through my mind that have stopped me. And then there's this other s- group of people who really strongly believe that having a child will fix them-

   23. SPSpeaker25:42

       Yeah

   24. RDRadhi Devlukia25:42

       ... or the pain that they've been through as a child. Or, you know, my friends, I've, uh, got a lot of friends who were raised by single moms, and it was really interesting, their mindset was really similar. And not saying this is for everyone, but my friends who had this, where they fundamentally believe them having a child breaks the cycle so that they could give the love that they didn't receive. Like, having this-

   25. SPSpeaker26:01

       Yeah

   26. RDRadhi Devlukia26:01

       ... family set up will make up for what they lacked.

   27. SPSpeaker26:05

       Yeah.

   28. RDRadhi Devlukia26:05

       And then the couples who are really struggling and decide that having children will actually be the bridge between them-

   29. SPSpeaker26:12

       Yes, yes

   30. RDRadhi Devlukia26:12

       ... and it will help, will help bridge the gap between them that has been created.
9. 29:02 – 32:32

   Are You Willing to Sacrifice Your Career to Become a Parent?

   1. SPSpeaker29:02

      to say that there's, there's a reality to this where we're all just living life-

   2. RDRadhi Devlukia29:06

      I know

   3. SPSpeaker29:06

      ... and you're adapting as it goes along, and you're not gonna get everything right in perfect order. And it's better to be able to react and adapt and be flexible than it is to think I'm gonna get everything perfect and avoid all this stuff.

   4. RDRadhi Devlukia29:23

      Definitely.

   5. SPSpeaker29:24

      So even when we're like, "Oh, I'm not worthy enough to have a child," the truth is you'll never feel worthy.

   6. RDRadhi Devlukia29:28

      Mm.

   7. SPSpeaker29:28

      You are gonna make mistakes. It's probably true that your child's gonna, you know, end up with a few things that you said that-

   8. RDRadhi Devlukia29:34

      Yeah, you might mess them up a little bit

   9. SPSpeaker29:35

      ... a little bit. It will happen.

   10. RDRadhi Devlukia29:37

       [laughs]

   11. SPSpeaker29:37

       It's probably better to assume and then try your best-

   12. RDRadhi Devlukia29:41

       Right, right

   13. SPSpeaker29:41

       ... than it is to think I'm gonna avoid anything, and then it's like you end up putting bubble wrap around your kid, but then that bubble wrap suffocates them.

   14. RDRadhi Devlukia29:51

       Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

   15. SPSpeaker29:52

       Right? And it's like, so, so-

   16. RDRadhi Devlukia29:53

       Exactly

   17. SPSpeaker29:53

       ... it doesn't make any sense. Like, you're trying to protect it, but the same thing that you think's gonna protect it is what hurts the kid.

   18. RDRadhi Devlukia29:58

       Mm.

   19. SPSpeaker29:59

       And it, and it hurts you, rather than going, "You know what? I'm gonna make some mistakes. I'm gonna try my best. But yeah, maybe they are gonna hear me-... shout and yell a couple of times. Maybe they are gonna see me stressed and tired, because that's life.

   20. RDRadhi Devlukia30:11

       Mm.

   21. SPSpeaker30:12

       You know, if, a- and, and again, we don't wanna end up in a position where we're being neglectful, but I think there has to be some grace and reality to what it means.

   22. RDRadhi Devlukia30:19

       Definitely.

   23. SPSpeaker30:21

       I think one of the really interesting areas is that women in the workplace or entrepreneurs, they're building a career for themselves. We talked about how the financial struggle is making it harder for couples to think about kids. But for women especially, they have to go on maternity leave.

   24. RDRadhi Devlukia30:36

       Mm-hmm.

   25. SPSpeaker30:36

       They'll take some time out. Not all organizations and companies have great maternity leave, so you may not even get that long. You may take unpaid leave, which again financially impacts you. If you're an entrepreneur, your business gonna stall, stop, or at least slow down, and then you go back to the workplace and you feel like you've gone behind, right? Whether you've taken nine months out, whether you've taken six months out, whether you've taken four months out, you're catching up, and it can be really, really hard.

   26. RDRadhi Devlukia31:03

       Mm.

   27. SPSpeaker31:04

       What, what have your thoughts been on that, on the idea of, like, having to slow down career?

   28. RDRadhi Devlukia31:09

       Yeah.

   29. SPSpeaker31:09

       Because you, you know, you, last year you launched a book. You have your own podcast. You've got so many exciting things going on. When you think about kids and how to balance it with that, how do you look at that?

   30. RDRadhi Devlukia31:18

       Yeah, I really struggle with the idea because I know I made a decision and, well, at least I think this is the decision I want to make, is that if I ha- if we have children, I would want to be able to look after the child fully, and I'd have loved to have help from other people to help look after myself. But I know that I would want to look after the child, and so that comes with a lot of, you know, there's so much you have to think about. That would mean I would have to have full focus on this child. I would have to stop doing a lot of the things that I am doing because realistically, I, yes, you can do a lot of different things, but can you do them as well? Probably not. If I'm trying to put full focus into raising a child, probably can't keep up with all the work that I'm doing. And so I think, you know, sacrifice comes with such a negative connotation to it, but I actually think it's can be such a beautiful thing, where different times in your life you see yourself prioritizing different things. And so if I think that's how I'm trying to see it instead, where the priority lies here, that means that, that I may not be able to do as much, but I can still probably p- preplan. You've got nine months to plan and figure out how am I going to financially figure this out, figure it out with my work, figure it out with my

10. 32:32 – 37:19

    Live the Life You Want For Yourself

    1. RDRadhi Devlukia32:32

       physical body, how am I gonna look after myself? Whatever those other priorities are, I do think you have to decide because, you know, I think there's this big notion that, yeah, women can do it all. Of course, we can do it, but should you be at that time where your body's trying to heal, where you're, where you've got a new little thing that's come into your life that you're trying to nurture and look after? And so, yes, I'm sure women can do it all, but I don't know whether we should be doing it all. And I think being okay with that, and it's, e- everything you said, it's preparation. Preparing my mind that maybe I won't be able to do this, this, and this while, for the first year of this baby's life, and that's okay. Because what I am doing is nurturing, creating, and pouring all my energy into creating a beautiful child. And so I think it's the prioritization and the preparation in your mind of being okay with what could happen so it's not a shock, and then you don't end up feeling really depressed afterwards-

    2. SPSpeaker33:27

       Yeah

    3. RDRadhi Devlukia33:27

       ... that I thought my life was gonna be all these things. I was gonna work out at 7:00 AM. I was gonna feed the child at 12:00. I was gonna do all my work from 12:00 to 6:00. I was gonna put the baby to bed at this time. It's like, mm, I'm not sure that's how it can be. And so preparation and, and being realistic with that preparation I think is really important. But then again, I've never been through it. I've just seen it. So, um, I can say all this, and I'll be a hot mess after.

    4. SPSpeaker33:49

       [laughs]

    5. RDRadhi Devlukia33:49

       Who knows? Who knows?

    6. SPSpeaker33:51

       Yeah. And I, I wanted to share some real-world voices. This was via Business Insider, and a lady named Viviana had her first child at 36. She said, "I don't regret waiting. I think it was the right thing to do."

    7. RDRadhi Devlukia34:03

       Mm.

    8. SPSpeaker34:04

       Molly had her first child at 38. She said, "It felt irresponsible to even start thinking about a baby when I was worried about paying rent and college debt."

    9. RDRadhi Devlukia34:13

       Oh, yeah.

    10. SPSpeaker34:14

        And I just wanna remind people that when you're navigating this pressure, whichever stage you're at, whether you wanna have kids, whether you don't wanna have kids, whether you're at any point on the spectrum that me and Radhi have talked about today, you can have the conversation. We've talked about it, and this is the timeline that works for us right now. That's a great mantra to kinda repeat to yourself almost. Like, me and my partner have talked about it. This timeline works for us, and we're building a life that's right for us, even if it doesn't look like everyone else's. I think the takeaway from this conversation for me is we don't wanna live a life ticking society's boxes or expectations-

    11. RDRadhi Devlukia34:51

        Mm

    12. SPSpeaker34:51

        ... because we end up letting ourselves down, we end up letting society down, and we'll end up letting our child down.

    13. RDRadhi Devlukia34:57

        Yes.

    14. SPSpeaker34:57

        We've gotta go at our own timeline, and ultimately, whether you choose to have children or not, life can be fulfilling, complete, and beautiful because it's all about having that energy. If you have a space to share your maternal and paternal energy, it can be a beautiful thing.

    15. RDRadhi Devlukia35:14

        Mm.

    16. SPSpeaker35:15

        Uh, I know so many friends that have adopted and are very happy.

    17. RDRadhi Devlukia35:17

        Yeah.

    18. SPSpeaker35:18

        I know so many friends that don't have children, who are monks, who have just given their life to thousands of people, that are happy. And I know families that have two, three, four, five children that are really happy at different ages. And so happiness doesn't have a timeline or an age or a specific setup. Even if you look at the projection of the nuclear family in history, whether it was cereal boxes or adverts, it was always parents-

    19. RDRadhi Devlukia35:43

        Yeah

    20. SPSpeaker35:43

        ... with a boy and a girl.

    21. RDRadhi Devlukia35:44

        Yeah.

    22. SPSpeaker35:45

        And, like, that was seen as, like, the nuclear ideal family. It's in every advert, and that's just not the image that we need to project. We need to realize that happiness and fulfillment looks very different for different people.

    23. RDRadhi Devlukia35:57

        So true.

    24. SPSpeaker35:59

        Great. Thanks for that.

    25. RDRadhi Devlukia36:00

        Amazing.

    26. SPSpeaker36:00

        That was ... I learned so much. I'm so glad you brought up so many things that I hadn't even thought about. That's why I love these conversations because-

    27. RDRadhi Devlukia36:05

        Yeah

    28. SPSpeaker36:05

        ... you went in so many directions where I was like, "Oh my God, I forgot about that," or, "We haven't talked about that before," and I learned so much. And it's helpful for me to get a good understanding from your perspective and what your friends who have had babies think because as a man, sometimes I can be distant from that, so.

    29. RDRadhi Devlukia36:21

        When I realized this was the first topic that you thought of, I was like, damn, we're really getting into it.

    30. SPSpeaker36:27

        We are.

Episode duration: 37:19