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JELLY ROLL's Brutal Journey of Self-Forgiveness "I hate the man I used to be...”

Grammy-nominated artist Jelly Roll opens up about his turbulent past, from felony charges to addiction, and his transformative journey to self-forgiveness.

Jelly RollguestJay Shettyhost

Oct 14, 20241h 39mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

110 min read · 22,250 words

0:00 – 4:27
Intro
1. JRJelly Roll
  I'm honest enough to be on your podcast today to tell you that I still get stuck here sometimes. I probably never said it this honestly, but this is the podcast to be that real about is that I have just-
2. JSJay Shetty
  He's a crossover artist in more ways than one. Multi-genre, multi-platinum. Give it up for Jelly Roll. You went to jail for an armed robbery at 15. Have you ever thought about what you'd say to that person if you met them again?
3. JRJelly Roll
  Ooh, that's the best question I've ever been asked. I've avoided this question.
4. JSJay Shetty
  Do you truly believe that you're a horrible person? I can't imagine you having a horrible heart. We're thrilled to announce that we've reached three million subscribers. We're incredibly grateful for each and every one of you. If you enjoy this episode, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss out on any of our new releases. We're dedicated to bringing you the content you love. Our team carefully analyzes what resonates most with you to bring on board the best experts and storytellers to help you improve your life. Some of your favorite topics are sleep science, weight loss, physical fitness, navigating breakups, habit building, and understanding toxic relationships. Upcoming episodes include one of the biggest names in health and science, world-renowned relationship therapist, and your favorite manifestation expert is back to drop new findings. Hit subscribe to not miss any of these episodes. If you think of someone who would love this episode, send it to them to make their day.
5. SPSpeaker
  The number one health and wellness podcast.
6. JRJelly Roll
  Jay Shetty.
7. SPSpeaker
  Jay Shetty.
8. JSJay Shetty
  The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is someone that I have been dying to have on the show ever since the moment I saw him perform live and I got to give him a big hug the day after. This guest's story is truly unbelievable, truly inspiring, truly spectacular. I'm speaking about the award-winning, Grammy-nominated Nashville native singer-songwriter Jelly Roll, who debuted top three on the Billboard 200 all-genre chart and number two on the top country album charts with his debut country album. And it earned him the biggest country debut album in Billboard consumption chart history. Jelly Roll was nominated for Best New Artist and Best Duo/Group Performance for Save Me with Lainey Wilson at the 2024 Grammy Awards, a four-times winner at the 2023 People's Choice Country Awards, and the most-nominated male at the 2023 CMA Awards with five total nominations, capturing his first CMA Award for New Artist of the Year. For the 2024 CMA Awards, Jelly Roll was just nominated this morning for Entertainer of the Year, Album of the Year, and Male Vocalist of the Year. Jelly Roll is set to release his new album, Beautifully Broken, on October 11th and launch his Beautifully Broken Tour on August 27th. Welcome to On Purpose, Jelly Roll.
9. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah. [laughs] As you kept reading off, I was getting nervous. I was like-
10. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
11. JRJelly Roll
  ... that's, wow, this is all associated with me. [laughs]
12. JSJay Shetty
  Oh, man. It's, it's beautiful to see. And you know, you just said to me outside, you said, "Did you ever dream of this?" And I said to you, "No, I didn't dream of it." And you were saying it was the same back. And-
13. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah
14. JSJay Shetty
  ... I just wanna take folks back to how we connected because I went to Clive Davis' pre-Grammy party. That was the first time I've ever seen you perform. And I was just like, "Who is this guy?" Like, that's a hard party to perform at, I feel.
15. JRJelly Roll
  Right.
16. JSJay Shetty
  There's short segments. It's moving fast. There's so much going on. And you came on stage, and you had everyone enraptured. I remember like MGK was bopping along.
17. JRJelly Roll
  Yes. [laughs]
18. JSJay Shetty
  Like, stood on his chair or his, like, on his table. Like, everyone was rocking out to you. And I was thinking, "You had everyone in there fully present, fully locked in." It was beautiful. So I posted it. I took a video, posted it. I thought nothing of it. I was just like, "This guy's amazing. Can't wait to follow his work, listen to more of his music." And then you DM'd me back, and I was just taken away 'cause you said you were aware of my work and you'd read Think Like a Monk at a really low time in your life. And I was like, I was genuinely humbled. I was like, "No way." I was like, I didn't have a clue that you knew who I was. And I was just so
4:27 – 7:30
Finding Your Purpose
1. JSJay Shetty
  grateful. And I wanted to ask you there, like, how did you even get Think Like a Monk? How did you find On Purpose? Like, what was the low time in your life that it found you at?
2. JRJelly Roll
  It's funny, man. So in 2019, my, um, father passed away in March of 2019. He got sick in January of 2019, and I had spent the last three months of his life with him and, uh, every day because it was kinda one of those really kinda slow 90-day declines. And I was coming out of that really, really struggling. And about a year later, I had gained like 60 or 70 pounds back, right? 'Cause I'd lost a lot of weight at the time. And I just felt it weighing on me, and we were going into COVID at that point, too. And I had discovered you on, uh, YouTube. And I think this ... I don't remember. When did you launch On Purpose 'cause I think this was before-
3. JSJay Shetty
  2019
4. JRJelly Roll
  ... Yeah, this ... Yeah. So d- I'd just discovered the pod, and I was watching just, like, the initial stu- like, I got into the super earlier stuff where you were just, like, direct-to-camera stuff before the pod. And then I was like, "I should read this book." So my wife knows I've ... Side note, I've always been obsessed with monks and, like, that whole I live a very chaotic life, and I maybe romanticize this idea of disappearing to the mountains for a year and refiguring my life out. I'm like every other kid that watched Dumb and Dumber.
5. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
6. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, like, maybe this will work. So when I read it, and it was a really big transition for me. My father had just died. Um, I thought my purpose had been taken away from me because to that point, music to me was, um- ... a donkey to get to people, right? And d- that was taken away. You c- I couldn't get to people the way I used to get to people. I was, I was used to doing 200 bar shows a year. So I'm trying to grieve my father, and I'm going through this inter- this, we're all going through this national pandemic together. And of course, the, the, the fear of it initially was really strong as well. And, uh, that was kind of that season of life that I got introduced to Mr. Jay Shetty, man. It was really, really cool. 'Cause I've always believed that, uh, what we put in our body comes out, and that's a lot deeper than just what we eat or drink. I think it's what we consume. You know, if I'm watching a bunch of murder mysteries, I'll feel a certain kind of [laughs] anxiety if I watch them for a month straight, you know? If I'm listening to, uh, if I'm listening to On Purpose or, uh, Dr. Dispenza or these people that I look up to, Huberman, you know, these guys that I think are just great. You know what I mean? Then I'm, I'm always putting out better stuff. So yeah, that, you have no clue how much your art helped me. And in exchange, I think my art's been able to help people. It's funny how iron sharpens iron without us even knowing each other. You know what I mean?
7. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
8. JRJelly Roll
  That I was being inspired by what you were saying and what you were doing.
9. JSJay Shetty
  No, what you're doing is so inspiring. I mean, whenever I'm hearing you, any music you put out, I'm like, "I can pray to this, I can meditate to this, you know, I can dance to this." Like, it- it's, it's, it's real heart music and soul music. And for me, hearing that from you and the big hug you gave me at the Grammys, I was feeling so much love. And so thank you, because knowing that someone who is having such an incredible impact, that I'd somehow been connected to your life was,
7:30 – 10:38
Grief From Losing A Parent
1. JSJay Shetty
  was really profound. But you spoke about your father then, losing your father. What was your relationship like with him-
2. JRJelly Roll
  Oh
3. JSJay Shetty
  ... up until that point, and what was ... What, walk us through that moment of losing him and what that felt like.
4. JRJelly Roll
  He was, he was, like, really, we were really, really close. Um, when I was a really troubled juvenile, uh, my father was an alcoholic. My mother had her own struggles. And we wasn't as close whenever I was a kid 'cause I was just so rebellious in spirit. But as I got in my 20s and finally got out of that revolving cycle of, uh, the judicial system, me and him started really getting close. And I started leaning on him, and we would go to happy hour three or four days a week every day, and we'd go sit at the same spot at the same bar on, in Demonbreun Street in Nashville called the Tin Roof from 4:00 to 6:00. And he was such an impactful man. Later in his life, he, um, he really started becoming enriched in his community and his church. Uh, helped with the Room in the Inn program for the homeless every Thursday. I mean, he just was a ... But he also kind of taught me that duality of man, 'cause he'd still throw one back and party. He wasn't like a square, you know? But he was like ... It was cool. So he kind of encouraged me. And we were really close, and the, he was one of those, uh, situations, Jay, that I, I didn't see it coming, and he didn't either. We all thought he was good. I knew he was getting older. He was probably about 76, but he was still sharp as a tack. And, uh, but kind of out of nowhere he got, um, really, he thought he just got sick, and it turned out that he'd had leukemia for a few years and just never even really checked on it. But he was one of them old tough dudes that never went to the doctor, didn't believe in, you know ... He was one of those guys that grandpa's cough syrup and a good sweat will get any cold out of you. You know, drink a little bourbon and go to sleep in a hot-
5. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
6. JRJelly Roll
  ... sleep in a hot room with two blankets. You'll be like old, like, penitentiary dudes that'll just try-
7. JSJay Shetty
  Right
8. JRJelly Roll
  ... to sweat colds out.
9. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
10. JRJelly Roll
  It's like, just sweat it out. So those last 90 days were really cool for me, Jay, because I got to really spend the time with him. Like, when he got sick that day, I showed up to his house, I put him in my car, I drove him to the hospital closest to my house. And I got to drive up there every morning and hang out with him all day as, you know, all the way until the end. And it was really cool, 'cause he taught me how to live, and he also taught me how to die. And, uh, because man, he did it like a gangster. He did it just the way I thought my father would do it.
11. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
12. JRJelly Roll
  You know, not a tear in his eye, not a, not, not a worry in his face, just, just a man of faith that was just kind of ready to go, you know?
13. JSJay Shetty
  Mm. Was it-
14. JRJelly Roll
  But it was, but, but it hurt. You know, it hurt hard.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Was there a lesson or something he said at that time, or was it just the way he was?
16. JRJelly Roll
  Just the way he dealt with it. Um, he, uh, he was ... I think not even what he said. One thing he said I'll never forget that was funny, but it stuck with me, was the nurse came in to give him his pain pills or whatever medicine it was, and he chewed it. You know, just old tough, just swallowed it. I said, "That don't bother you?" And he was just, just as quick as he could say it, he said, "Sometime when a pill's too hard to swallow, you just gotta chew it."
17. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
18. JRJelly Roll
  Right? [laughs] And I, dude, that stuck with me, dog.
19. JSJay Shetty
  That's good, man.
20. JRJelly Roll
  It's like, right?
21. JSJay Shetty
  That's good.
22. JRJelly Roll
  It's like, and I thought about that, 'cause I was like, that's so much bigger than just this particular moment, you know what I mean? But he was always full of those little one-liner wisdoms. That's kind of how he was. He was the opposite of me. I'll talk to everybody a lot. My dad was very kind of reserved, and when he spoke, it really counted, you know what I mean?
10:38 – 14:50
What Sparked His Musical Journey?
1. JSJay Shetty
  Mm. Mm. And what about your mother? Because I've heard that she also was dealing with her own mental health challenges when you were growing up. What was that experience like of, you know, having a father that was this way and then what was she like and was she comp- complimenting who he was? And how did she impact you?
2. JRJelly Roll
  Uh, they were polar opposite. She was, um, she struggled with drugs and just real mental health stuff. She started becoming really reclusive. There was a 20-year period in my life that I didn't see my mother outside of a nightgown, but maybe twice ever. You know, I just never seen her come out of her room very much, more or less out of our house. And I didn't understand anything about drugs at the time or mental health, but she really, really struggled with that. But I connected music with her mental health, right? Because the few times when she was out of that bedroom and at that kitchen table, she was thriving. I mean, it was like, and she would hold court. And she was so special in how she dealt with people. And she still, she's still like this, that she would come downstairs and sit at that table, and it was almost like a light shot out of the top of the house. The whole family would come into the table. No, we wouldn't talk about it. We'd just, like, you would just see them start ... Neighbors would start to come over. Her girlfriends would start to pull up. She'd start playing music, smoking cigarettes, telling stories, talking shit ... holding court at the kitchen table, and it'd be like a group of us. She'd have her four girlfriends sitting around the table. We'd all be standing around them. Some would ... I mean, like, it was like a crowd trying to just, what, just take anything she'd give us, you know? But that's where my love for music came in. 'Cause imagine you're 10 years old and you don't see your mother in a healthy space very much, but when she seems her healthiest, there's always music playing. There's always this record player. There's always... And I always tell the story, Jay, that it was ... You're old enough to remember this era, that we didn't have Google. We didn't have a bunch of thesauruses. You just had to believe people.
3. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. [laughs]
4. JRJelly Roll
  So they would just tell these wild stories about, I don't know if any of these stories I heard about all these songs are true.
5. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
6. JRJelly Roll
  But she would always set up a song first with a big story and then play it, so we were, like, all on the edge of our seat, and she'd hype up a song that we'd never heard and then play it, and we were all, like, listening like we were watching a movie. Like, the first time she played Coward of the County or The Gambler, like, we're like ears locked. You know what I mean? Or that, "Oh, where, oh, where can my baby be?" You know, we're just all like ... She's like, "Listen, listen, listen."
7. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
8. JRJelly Roll
  She'd wait for the good parts. We'd all get goosebumps. We'd cheer at the end of a song. And it really, really kind of brought that ... Being young, to me, I was like, "Oh, this solves problems. This brings people together. This makes sick people better." Like, there's something happening with this vibration that's different. And I'm probably 10, Jay, and right then I was like, "I wanna write songs."
9. JSJay Shetty
  Wow.
10. JRJelly Roll
  I came down, like, a week later with a poem. You know what I mean?
11. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
12. JRJelly Roll
  I didn't know how to write a song, so, like, I wrote a poem.
13. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
14. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I mean?
15. JSJay Shetty
  Did you sing it and perform it for her?
16. JRJelly Roll
  Oh, yeah. Every time.
17. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah?
18. JRJelly Roll
  Oh, dude, it got to the point where, like ... And if she was downstairs with her girlfriends, she'd call me up there to read whatever the most one I wrote was. She was very ... Looking back now, you don't realize how much that feeds the positive side of reinforcing a little dream in you as a kid. But she, I don't even know if she did it, but she hammered it home. 'Cause she made me feel like the belle of the ball. I mean, she'd be like, "Jason, come down here, little Jelly. Come down here, little Jelly." And I'd come down. She'd go, "Show Pat that thing you wrote last week." And I'd run back up, get my little sheet of paper, and I'd come down like, "Check this out, Pat." And Pat would act like it was the coolest thing ever.
19. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
20. JRJelly Roll
  You know, and it sucked, of course. I was 10. It was horrible. You know what I mean? [laughs] But they, they were super, super, um, complimentary, and that was something that really encouraged me.
21. JSJay Shetty
  Do you still have any of those original poems?
22. JRJelly Roll
  No.
23. JSJay Shetty
  No.
24. JRJelly Roll
  Dude, we, we are such a white trash family. We lost all our pictures.
25. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
26. JRJelly Roll
  All our poems.
27. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
28. JRJelly Roll
  We lost everything, man.
29. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. That would-
30. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah
14:50 – 17:50
Getting Incarcerated At 15
1. JSJay Shetty
  That's beautiful, man.
2. JRJelly Roll
  N- big kids become, are one of two ways. They're either very shy and very timid, or they're very funny and can be very aggressive. But when you're a kid, you're just looking for any kind of acceptance, any, you know, any, any sense of belonging, any sense of want. And the streets will always give it to you. I looked at money as the way out of this particular situation, and I was willing to do whatever it took to get that.
3. JSJay Shetty
  How does it go from that to then being incarcerated at 13? Like, I feel like, you know, that's 10 years old, you're saying.
4. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah.
5. JSJay Shetty
  Seems like there's the ability to find joy. You're looking back and smiling. But then 13, that incarceration journey begins.
6. JRJelly Roll
  It deep-rooted insecurities early. I was always a bigger kid. Um, always struggled with an eating disorder. I just ... I think I ate my emotions whenever I was younger, and feelings, and what was happening in my environment, in the household, and outside. So I had a little chip on my shoulder, naturally, as a young kid. I, I was, um ... I've always said this, and it's, it's [censored] up, but it's true, excuse my language, is n- big kids become, are one of two ways. They're either very shy and very timid, or they're very funny and can be very aggressive.
7. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
8. JRJelly Roll
  And I was the funny, aggressive big guy.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
10. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I mean? And I carried that. And my neighborhood was a ... You know, I mean, it was happening. It was a very active area, you know what I mean? It was a very, very normal middle, lower class neighborhood in the '90s. So there was just so much crap happening. It was so easy to get involved. And when you're a kid, you're just looking for any kind of acceptance, any, you know, any, any sense of belonging, any sense of want. And the streets will always give it to you. You know what I mean? They'll ... They're, they're, they're preying on it. They're, they're, they're, they're preying on it and praying for it, that it happens. And I just immediately got washed into it. It just ... And I also was one of the people in my family that had a ... And I've probably never said this this way, and I hope I don't get in trouble. I didn't have a good relationship with how I looked at money. You know? I looked at money as the way out of this particular situation, and I was willing to do whatever it took to get that. And I had no morals about it. I had no moral compass at all. You know, I, I mean, I, I look back at those years, Jay, and I'm so embarrassed to talk about them. I was such a ... I was, I was still a bad person in my early 30s, but I mean, I was a really horrible kid all the way into my mid-20s. I was ... People are always like, "You're the nicest dude I've ever met." I'm like, "I'm so glad y'all haven't met nobody that knew me 20 years ago." You know what I mean? But, um, yeah, so I just immediately started getting in shit. And, uh, the first time I caught a real case, I'd gotten ... Well, we got caught with weed and stuff and all that little, little two days in juvenile stuff. But I'd got in a fight with a kid, and back then they had the chain wallets. And, um, when we were wrestling, I grabbed a chain wallet to try to hit him with it. And that was a strong-arm robbery case. So I ended up in the system for, like, 20-something months when I was, like, 13 for that strong-arm robbery.
17:50 – 20:17
"I was mad at life..."
1. JSJay Shetty
  Mm. Do you truly believe that you're a horrible person? I can't imagine you having a horrible heart.
2. JRJelly Roll
  I don't ... I kinda lean towards, I don't know if I had a bad heart as much as I lean towards kind of the Damascus thing, where I think I was just a really less than admirable person.
3. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
4. JRJelly Roll
  I just, I was desperate and delusional.
5. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
6. JRJelly Roll
  I was a, I say it, I was a desperate, delusional dreamer, and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble.
7. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
8. JRJelly Roll
  I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer, you know? But I definitely was consciously making really horrible decisions. I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what, what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. You know what I mean? And it took years for me to break that, like years of work, solid work to just, like, break that. It also has taken years of work for me to even forgive that kid, years of real intensive work to just be like, "You know what?" 'Cause when you're 16 and you do something very manipulative and you look back at it, Jay, you're like, "Man, that was super manipulative." Like, man, what was I thinking back then? That's just, I knew what I was doing. I knew I was being, being manipulative. Man, I was also 16 though. I was a kid. And I know that 'cause I now have a 16-year-old. And Jay, man, she's the smartest kid in school.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
10. JRJelly Roll
  And of course everybody thinks they got the coolest, smartest kid. I'm no exception, you know?
11. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
12. JRJelly Roll
  But she's the smartest. She's so much smarter than me. She's so much better than me. Um, she's gonna be everything I wasn't in life. It's gonna be so fun to watch. But she'll still do shit that'll make me go, "Oh, she's 16."
13. JSJay Shetty
  Mm. [laughs]
14. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I'm saying? Like, all the time. Like-
15. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, yeah, yeah
16. JRJelly Roll
  ... I have moments where I look like, "Dude, I think you could build a rocket."
17. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
18. JRJelly Roll
  And then I have moments when I'm like, "I think you put your shoes on wrong today."
19. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
20. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I mean? She's 16, you know?
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. Yeah.
22. JRJelly Roll
  So I've been able to, to do the work and forgive myself for being that, for being what I was, but I definitely did a lot of work to change my whole outlook on people and love. That's why I'm such a hugger. Man, I was not a touchy guy, dude.
23. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
24. JRJelly Roll
  I was a fist bump, stay away from me, flat-faced, you know, I was a kind of a jail guy. And now I'm like a just, just, uh, I, I joke all the time, Jay, I didn't cry until I was 33. Now I can't quit.
25. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
26. JRJelly Roll
  I mean, it's like f- I thought I'd caught up by now, but I mean, I still just, just for no reason, I'll just sob, you know? [laughs]
27. JSJay Shetty
  I love
20:17 – 21:35
The Barriers to Self-Forgiveness
1. JSJay Shetty
  that. What, what does it take? What's blocking us from forgiving ourselves?
2. JRJelly Roll
  Mm. Oh. I think accepting our responsibility in what we did is really hard. For me, that was the hardest part of forgiving myself, was just really when I quit running out of it was this person's fault, it was that person's fault. It took a long time for me to, as my father would say, chew that pill of realizing that maybe it was me. You know, it's the, the classic quote of on relationship number 27, you look up and go, "Now, there's no way I picked 27 crazy women."
3. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
4. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I'm saying? Like, at some point, maybe I am the problem. And that's the first thing I did to forgive myself, was just almost like the basic principles of AA. I just had to admit, like, you know what? This is, this is me.
5. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
6. JRJelly Roll
  This is all a reflection of the way I've carried myself. Yeah, things happened to me in life that created this, and yeah, there was a lot of ... I don't look at people and go, "What's wrong with them?" no more. I look at people and go, "What happened to them?"
7. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
8. JRJelly Roll
  But I've, that is no excuse not to, not to move on. And I was tired of forgiving everybody but me, and I couldn't figure out what the problem was. I was like, "I forgave everybody. I don't have a bitter heart about nothing." They're like, "You haven't forgave you." And man, I just, whew. It hit me like a ton of bricks.
9. JSJay Shetty
  You went to,
21:35 – 24:55
The Best Question Jelly Roll Has Ever Been Asked
1. JSJay Shetty
  you went to jail for an armed robbery at 15. Have you ever thought about, or ha- maybe you have even met them, but have you ever thought about what you'd say to that person if you met them again?
2. JRJelly Roll
  Ooh, that's the best question I've ever been asked. I've avoided this question hoping, because I don't know how to answer it, Jay. I really wanna have a conversation with them. I've thought about reaching out. This is been 24 years ago now, and I just don't know how that would even start, you know, how I would go about it. 'Cause sometimes I wonder if they might have even seen me in passing and are aware of my success, and I wonder if they've even correlated ... I mean, I've obviously dramatically changed. You know, I was 15, dude, you know what I mean? I, I couldn't grow facial hair at all. [laughs]
3. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
4. JRJelly Roll
  You know what? I didn't, I hardly hit puberty. I still had my high voice when I did that robbery. So I've thought about that a ton, and they're definitely on my list, my amends list. I just haven't made it that far down yet.
5. JSJay Shetty
  Well, what do you think you would say?
6. JRJelly Roll
  I would just ask them to under- I would ask them to just, one, forgive me, 'cause there's no excuse, and that the first accountability is no matter how old I was, I had no business taking from anybody. Just the, this entitlement that I had, this, the world owed me enough that I could come take your stuff. Just what a horrible, horrible way to look at life and people. Just what a horrible way to interact with the earth, you know? And I would apologize for that first, just flat, just one, accountability is what I'm so big on now, Jay. It's just looking them in the eye and going, "Man, I [censored] up." And then I would hope they would give me a little grace as I explain to them that I was 15 and, and I was just trying to be, I don't know what I was even trying to be when I look back now. I don't know what my thou- I don't have ... This is how I know I was 15, 'cause the more, when I try to make logic of it, I can't. There was no logic to what I did. It made absolutely no sense. And, uh, I learned so much from it in the way that I interact with people, and I hope that they would see that I've made it my life's mission to change and to change people because that's what I'm representing the most in what I do with my ... This, this whole thing for me is I think people cheer for me, Jay, 'cause they see a little bit of me in them, or they see their cousin or their, I'm a family member. They relate. And I speak for an unspoken group of people, you know? And I hope they would know that, you know, uh, money doesn't create character, it reveals it, right?
7. JSJay Shetty
  Oh. Yeah.
8. JRJelly Roll
  If I was an asshole, what a great time to start, you know what I mean?
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
10. JRJelly Roll
  What a great time to show the world, you know? I think that I'm ... trying to diligently prove myself that I'm, I've not only changed, that I took the platform serious, and that it's making me change more every day. You know, the responsibility that God's given me, and I would hope they would forgive me.
11. JSJay Shetty
  That's beautiful, man.
12. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Even sitting with you for a few moments and the, the few interactions we have had, it's so evident to me that you've done so much work. Like, it's so clear.
14. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah.
15. JSJay Shetty
  It's so clear, and I think you remind everyone of the potential we do wanna see in humanity.
16. JRJelly Roll
  Mm.
17. JSJay Shetty
  Like, it's like that's what we wanna see. Like, when we see someone struggling, we wanna see them-
18. JRJelly Roll
  Figure it out
19. JSJay Shetty
  ... have that transformation, and I think what you were saying, that when people see you, I think they're reminded that, oh, it's possible. Oh, it's real. Oh, it can be genuine. Like, it, it's so genuine to your core when you're talking about it to me. Like, I feel the vibration of just-
20. JRJelly Roll
  Right
21. JSJay Shetty
  ... you know, the growth and transformation you chose. What I'm fascinated
24:55 – 29:26
Life Behind Bars as a Juvenile
1. JSJay Shetty
  by is how did it affect you at the time to make a mistake in your early years? How long did that end up putting you in jail for that time?
2. JRJelly Roll
  That's the time I got charged as an adult. So-
3. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
4. JRJelly Roll
  ... I still have that felony on my record to this day for that crime. That was ... I did a few years. I mean, I came home right ... I made bond right before I was 17, so I did two and a half years, and then I ended up having to go back and do another few years for the actual case when it settled out.
5. JSJay Shetty
  Mm. What does that experience do to a young person? Walk us through that, because I feel like you're now looking back at it when you're, you know, late 30s, but when you're looking back at it, it's a different perspective to, like, when you're actually 15-
6. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah
7. JSJay Shetty
  ... in jail for two and a half years, going back in and out, cases. What does that do to the mental health of a teenager?
8. JRJelly Roll
  Well, here's the perspective, Jay. Imagine us as adults now. You t- me and you go have a conversation. I go, "Hey, man, let's go spend three months in the mountains together, not use our phones, just fellowship."
9. JSJay Shetty
  I love it. I'm in.
10. JRJelly Roll
  You, you would look at it like, "Great idea," right?
11. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
12. JRJelly Roll
  You're like, "It's just three months. It'll be fun. I'm in. I think this will be great. We'll bring our wives. We'll, we'll invite other people. Let's, let's actually make a thing of this." Now, because us, 'cause we know at our age that three months is ... [snaps fingers] As hard as we're working, three months b- might be, be the break we need, you know?
13. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
14. JRJelly Roll
  When you're 15 years old, three months is your life. It's an entire semester of school. You're now gonna be a second-year freshman, or you're gonna have to make up these whole classes next summer because of three months, you know? So imagine getting thrown into that vortex for three years. I missed high school. I missed any kind of normal socializing, any kind of what would be growing up, what would be developing in those years, and I was developing in a room ... And I did a crime that deserved this, by the way, but I was developing in a room with stone white walls, a con- a, um, a steel commode and a steel bunk in a six by eight cell. Six foot wide, eight inches long. By the time I was an adult, I had to sleep with my legs curled, couldn't stretch all the way out. You know? Uh, I'll never forget being 17, realizing I grew enough that I couldn't fit in the bunk no more lengthwise. So you go through these things as a juvenile, and ... Do you ever see Blow?
15. JSJay Shetty
  No.
16. JRJelly Roll
  You ever wa- Oh, you gotta watch the movie Blow.
17. JSJay Shetty
  No. No, I haven't.
18. JRJelly Roll
  It's incredible. It's, it's a crazy movie. It's about a guy named George Jung, Jung, that was a huge ... Uh, Johnny Depp played him. Huge Johnny Depp fan.
19. JSJay Shetty
  Oh, cool. Love Johnny Depp, yeah.
20. JRJelly Roll
  But, uh, he, um, he was a big weed dealer, and he finally got some federal time for moving, you know, hundreds of thousands of pounds of weed. And the joke he says in the movie is, "I went to prison with a bachelor's degree in marijuana. I left with a PhD in cocaine."
21. JSJay Shetty
  Wow.
22. JRJelly Roll
  'Cause he came home and ended up being the biggest cocaine dealer in American history. So that's the truth, though. That's how that aff- impacts us, Jay. When we're in these situations, uh, uh, our judicial system is set that when you put the worst of the worst in a room together and give them nothing to do but talk, argue, and fight, you're only making smarter criminals. They're only ... When there's no outlets, 'cause there was very few outlets for us. Even as a juvenile, we didn't have no outlets. I didn't get my diploma, I didn't get my GED until I was 25 in adult jail. We didn't have real classes. We didn't have a real rec yard, an exercise program, a mentorship program at the juvenile. We didn't have anything. I mean, they treated us like lifers. You know, orange jumpsuits and ... These were heinous crimes we were committing, and I understand that I am huge on discipline. Like, I'm one of the few people that even in my justice reform doesn't ... Anywhere do I believe people shouldn't be incarcerated. I think that I've learned some of the greatest things in my life, and that, it's changed my life. But what changed my life the most in those facilities was later when I started getting resources in them. When I started send- having education units where I could get my GED, and they had a Christian program that I could go to called Jericho, talk breaking the walls down. And these were the things that I started learning these fundamentals, and they had AA and NA, and, uh, I started being, getting access to different kind of books and literature and these things. But all through my juvenile years, Jay, none of that. You're just sitting in there, you know. There's kids that went to juvenile at my age and came home and couldn't, never could read and write.
23. JSJay Shetty
  Wow. Yeah, no, I appreciate that perspective, and it comes back to what you keep referring to is this principle of accountability. And I think accountability gets a bit of a hard rap right now. Like, it's a difficult reputation that accountability has.
24. JRJelly Roll
  You can be king
29:26 – 33:10
The Fine Line Between Accountability and Self-Sabotage
1. JRJelly Roll
  for a day and get, uh, pats on the back in life as you pass, but it's only heartache and tears if you fooled the guy in the glass. Something I learned through AA that I love so much is g- going home and having these, like, uh, you assess your day. You write what did you do, uh, uh, what do they call it? Like, a moral inventory. It's the monster that I battle the most with my obesity.
2. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
3. JRJelly Roll
  Which to me is one of the things that I'm working on, but it's clearly where I have the most work to do.
4. JSJay Shetty
  Talk to me about the difference between accountability and self-sabotage-
5. JRJelly Roll
  Mm
6. JSJay Shetty
  ... or self-blame.
7. JRJelly Roll
  Mm.
8. JSJay Shetty
  Right? There's a difference.
9. JRJelly Roll
  Huge.
10. JSJay Shetty
  And I can tell you know it because from the way you're using the word.
11. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah.
12. JSJay Shetty
  But I think people get scared of accountability because they think, "Well, if I think it's all my fault-
13. JRJelly Roll
  Right
14. JSJay Shetty
  ... then maybe I shouldn't be here," or, "Maybe I don't matter," or, "I'm not enough." How do you see the difference?
15. JRJelly Roll
  Mm. There was a poem called The Guy in the Glass. Have you ever read this poem?
16. JSJay Shetty
  No.
17. JRJelly Roll
  It's an incredible poem. I used to have it memorized, but I, I, I lear- I read it in jail And I hung it up on my jail mirror. And until about two years ago, it was on the mirror in my bedroom every day. My whole ... As long as me and my wife have been together. It's something I live by. The guy ... It pretty much says that, uh, you can be king for a day and get a pats on the back in life as you pass, but it's only heartache and tears if you fooled the guy in the glass.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
19. JRJelly Roll
  That was the moment where now if there's a triggering thing that happens in my life, I used to ... The old mentality was, "Who did this?" First thing I do now is I go straight to the mirror and go, "What could Jason have done differently? What could I have really done differently to avoid this situation?" 'Cause once I learned that there's, um, accountability, this old head once told me, "If I'm running up a flight of steps and I slip on a step and fall, whose fault is it? Is it mine or the step's?" I go, "It's, it's mine." He goes, "What if there's a crack in the steps?" I go, "It's the step's." He goes, "You think?" And I go, "Well, for sure. That's the variable, right? If there's a crack in the steps, it's the step's fault." He said, "The steps didn't have a choice to be there. You had a choice to run up them."
20. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
21. JRJelly Roll
  Man, those are the moments where you're like-
22. JSJay Shetty
  Yes
23. JRJelly Roll
  ... "Oh." So and then if I can assess that I did everything right, that's how I avoid self-blame, real self-assessment, honest self-assessment to go ... 'Cause a lot of times we just don't honestly assess ourselves. Something I learned through AA that I love so much is g- going home and having these, like, uh, you assess your day. You write what did you do, a, uh, what do they call it, like a moral inventory, right?
24. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
25. JRJelly Roll
  And having these real moments. And then you get freedom because sometimes you find out it ain't you, and then you're like, "You know what? I actually did pretty good by this." Then you can start handling your business. And then going down the line, "All right. Well, where did this fall apart?" You know what I mean? And then you can start checking your boxes. But I've learned that even in the end it'll always come back to you. 'Cause even if it's somebody you hired to do a job and they failed to do the job, I still hired that person to do the job. That was still my, my own going, and that just changed everything. I had to do it that way though, Jay, 'cause I was a chronic ... I was the Spider-Man meme.
26. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
27. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I mean? All the time, dude. It was everybody. You know what I'm saying? Ah, it's him, it's him, it's him. It was never me. You know what I'm saying? [laughs]
28. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
29. JRJelly Roll
  And turns out it was pretty much always me. [laughs]
30. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] But I love that you can laugh at that and say that, right?
33:10 – 38:12
Guilt, Shame, and Judgement Are Your Enemy
1. JRJelly Roll
  question then.
2. JSJay Shetty
  Please.
3. JRJelly Roll
  Pinging on that, how do you think that ... How do you encourage people to get over that? 'Cause that's a real thing you're saying is to be like when you do assess it's you, there is a heavy, heavy feeling. For me, I just started finding freedom in it to be like, like you said, it was more I started looking at less like, "Damn, I [censored] up," to more like, "Oh, I can let that go. I blew that. What did I ..." I started taking this mentality of I don't lose, I learn.
4. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-mm.
5. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I mean? Like-
6. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
7. JRJelly Roll
  ... like, like-
8. JSJay Shetty
  Well said
9. JRJelly Roll
  ... yeah, like we don't ... This team, we don't ... We might screw stuff up, but we don't just, we learned something. It was all valuable.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
11. JRJelly Roll
  What do you think? What do you think that process is?
12. JSJay Shetty
  There's, there- there's two things that come to mind. One of them is in the monk tradition, our higher self is called the monk mind, and our lower self is called the monkey mind.
13. JRJelly Roll
  Mm.
14. JSJay Shetty
  And so whenever you're acting in that way, it's compared to a monkey. So if you see a monkey, and, and obviously you're not gonna see a monkey in most places, but at least in India, when you see a monkey, monkeys are crazy. They're silly. They're jumping from branch to branch. They're swinging around. They're making funny sounds. They're playful. They'll show you their teeth to scare you a little bit. They'll steal your credit card and trade it back for a banana.
15. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah. [laughs]
16. JSJay Shetty
  They're like, they're, they're silly. And the reason why mo- the mind is compared to a monkey is because it often acts like that. It's silly. It's unreasonable. It's awkward. It does funny things. And so when you look at the mind that way, you're like, "Oh, it's just a monkey. Like, it's okay. Like, it doesn't have to be this serious, heavy thing." You recognize that the mind's nature, the mind's propensity is to be that way. And then you go, "Wait a minute, I wouldn't judge a monkey if it did that."
17. JRJelly Roll
  Wow.
18. JSJay Shetty
  "So let me not judge myself. Let me free myself of that guilt and shame." And I think the bigger thing there is guilt blocks growth.
19. JRJelly Roll
  Mm.
20. JSJay Shetty
  Guilt doesn't make you want to grow. It might make you start to grow, but it won't help you grow long term if you keep guilting yourself. Shame is not gonna help you shift.
21. JRJelly Roll
  Mm.
22. JSJay Shetty
  If you keep shaming yourself, you're not suddenly gonna shift. It may shift you a tiny degree, but it's not gonna cause a transformation. And so guilt, shame, and judgment don't help you grow, shift, and transform. And I think so many of us have to realize that it's just not a useful emotion sustainably.
23. JRJelly Roll
  Right.
24. JSJay Shetty
  It can be useful in the interim to, like, get you off your backside and-
25. JRJelly Roll
  Right
26. JSJay Shetty
  ... get you going, but it's not a ... W- where I see you today, it's not like love and grace and compassion. Like, these things are sustainable. These things are infinite.
27. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah.
28. JSJay Shetty
  Whereas shame, guilt, and judgment are finite reasons for motivation. They, they run out. I don't know if that makes sense, but-
29. JRJelly Roll
  No, 100%.
30. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, so that's how I see it.
38:12 – 40:34
The Reality of Food Addiction
1. JSJay Shetty
  you're reminding me of is this idea that, like, one of the most addictive things in the world is actually shame.
2. JRJelly Roll
  Mm.
3. JSJay Shetty
  Shame is such an addiction. We get addicted to it, and it just becomes our rhetoric, our habit, our go-to place. It's a go-to comfort, and it's a go-to pain, and we know it's both, but we kind of hold onto it like an addiction. And we get caught in that spiral. I think that's real.
4. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah.
5. JSJay Shetty
  But it sounds like you're taking a lot of steps in your health journey. You were just saying to me, drinking, like, two gallons of water a day. Like ...
6. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah. You know what's crazy, though?
7. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, go on. Yeah, yeah.
8. JRJelly Roll
  I'm just having a fan moment right now-
9. JSJay Shetty
  Go on
10. JRJelly Roll
  ... where you just looked at me and said the kind of shit I watch you say on this podcast.
11. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
12. JRJelly Roll
  That inspires me, but it was to me. You know [laughs] what I'm saying? That was so cool. Thank you. I was just sitting here like a little giddy kid. Like, I see this all the time. This is cool that I'm on the other side of this now.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Oh, absolutely.
14. JRJelly Roll
  Um. [laughs]
15. JSJay Shetty
  Anytime.
16. JRJelly Roll
  Thank you, brother, man. Please.
17. JSJay Shetty
  No, that's so humbling for me, man.
18. JRJelly Roll
  Uh.
19. JSJay Shetty
  You ex-
20. JRJelly Roll
  I think the weight for me right now is it's the mountain in front of me, and I'm taking it. I'm learning. You know, I'm, I'm being very diligent with it, and I'm taking it serious. I'm drinking a bunch of water. I'm cold plunging. I'm eating right. I'm doing good. I just, uh, I just have to fight that little, that little pirate on my shoulder that's, you know, them late nights and just ... I'm, I'm a food addict, man. I've always ... I probably never said it this honestly, but this is the podcast to be that real about, is that I have just had a bad relationship with food from birth. I've never had a good relationship with food. I've never had a good example around me of it. You know what I mean? And, uh, I've always said that I believe obesity is directly connected to mental health. I know how easy it is for people to go, "Just quit eating so much. Just work out. It's so easy." You know what I was like? I just, I don't ... I wish I looked at food that way.
21. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
22. JRJelly Roll
  But I understand it from the perspective of an addict because I know what addiction is. You know what I mean? And how I struggle with food is the same way I struggle with codeine. It's the same way I struggle with cocaine. Like, couldn't, you know, um, even getting it away from me. It took years to be able to be around people doing cocaine and just not be doing it. You know, just to know it's happening in my environment and be okay with that. So I'm having to take that same approach with food, to be honest, and I'm not ashamed to say it, that I'm having to make those dramatics of decisions where I'm like, I just, I don't need no, nothing to eat in my green room. You know what I mean? I need to, I need to change my entire
40:34 – 43:12
Breaking the Chains of Addiction
1. JRJelly Roll
  relationship with how I look at food, but a lot of that changed with me, how I looked at myself. You know what I mean? A lot of that started changing with me loving me and really starting to love me 'cause I went through this thing forever where I did all this work and started loving people and hugging people, and I still laid down and hated me. You know? And I still deal, deal with days of this. I still deal days. It's real. I'm honest enough to be on your podcast today to tell you that I still get stuck here sometimes, and it's scary, man. It's really sc- I scare myself. Um, but I've got a good support system around me, and I will say that all that cliché stuff is real.
2. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
3. JRJelly Roll
  When they're like, "Go walk out in the sun. Drink water." You remember you hear it as a f- fat person. I'm like, "You, it's not that easy."
4. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
5. JRJelly Roll
  "This is hard." And then I started walking around in the sun and drinking water. I'm like, "Dude, I feel so much better."
6. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
7. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I mean? It's crazy.
8. JSJay Shetty
  I, I, I feel like, it sounds like, though, that because you've been through other addiction journeys, there's a part of you that is inspired and knows you can do it.
9. JRJelly Roll
  Yes.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Right? It feels like you've been, you've been able to break so many habits and so many addictions at this point that it feels like you have an inner belief-
11. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah
12. JSJay Shetty
  ... that you can. Would you agree with that?
13. JRJelly Roll
  I believe it in my spirit.
14. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. I see it, yeah.
15. JRJelly Roll
  In my soul, I believe it. And I also believe it's because God's purpose for me is so much bigger than even what I'm doing now. And I, I almost feel like I heard the Spirit, my spirit tell me that, "You're holding you back from what's really for you."
16. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
17. JRJelly Roll
  You know, "Your physical is what's holding you back for what we have for you." And, um, I wanna shed that skin. I wanna shed it bad, but I also wanna do it to inspire kids the same way I'm inspired. Um, I never thought I would be able to talk to you in real life. I never got into this thinking I would be a mental health advocate or that I would be, um ... You know, this wasn't ... I just wrote songs about how I felt and how people around me felt and the brokenness that was in my life. And man, it's helped so many people, Jay
18. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
19. JRJelly Roll
  The messages you get, you know, I, I think we could connect on that, the messages. 'Cause I've, I've sent you messages of how I feel of things that we actually are helping people. This is called On Purpose. Y- purpose is what changed my life. Shia LaBeouf did an interview one time where he said, "I quit trying to be happy. I started being useful."
20. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
21. JRJelly Roll
  "I started trying to be useful." And I've lived by that quote ever since. It's like once I started prioritizing my purpose, it's funny how much life's just awesome. You know what I mean?
22. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. [laughs]
23. JRJelly Roll
  When I was trying to make life awesome, it sucked.
24. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. [laughs]
25. JRJelly Roll
  When I started, you know, when I started just trying to be a man of purpose and just try to walk in my purpose and what I think God put me here for, it just opened up everything for me. It's been such a dynamic shift.
43:12 – 50:35
Finding Someone Who Sees Your True Worth
1. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. You said, uh, I wanna read this from you because it's from your own post, but, uh, this was, uh, to your wife. You said, "Happy anniversary. This is my best friend. Literally, people ask me what was the turning point in my career, and the answer is simple: I married my best friend, period. This woman changed my life. Four years ago on a drunken night in Las Vegas, my wife and I made a decision. That night, during a Deftones show, I walked on stage during Yellow Wolves performance. Thank you for this, brother. I'll always be grateful for that moment. We rushed to the courthouse and got married at some random chapel. I was a lost cause. I was in the middle of custody battle. I was broke, living out of a v- van, doing 200 shows a year for $200 a show. I was addicted, bruised, used, and barely breathing. She came in and changed everything. She made me whole. She gave me purpose. It was truly the turning point in my career and life."
2. JRJelly Roll
  Mm.
3. JSJay Shetty
  I mean, when I read that, I was like, you know-
4. JRJelly Roll
  Mm
5. JSJay Shetty
  ... you can't read that and not feel moved by that. How was ... How are the people we choose to spend our life with, A, why are they so important, and B, how did she help you find your purpose? Like that word especially.
6. JRJelly Roll
  First of all, it felt like somebody actually believed in me, and I hadn't felt that in a while. My father believed in me, my mother, you know, my ... But like outside of my little crew, she just prophesied it over me from ... I'll never forget the first time we hung out, she whispered in my ear. She said, "I don't know what it is, but you're special." She's like, "S- you're special." And I felt the same way about her. We just celebrated our eighth anniversary last week.
7. JSJay Shetty
  Congratulations.
8. JRJelly Roll
  Thank you, man. [laughs] I'm, I'm talking to you about ... I've done so many interviews and never talked about this. I was so insecure in my body for so many years that I found validation through women, and I thought that if I could pull pretty women, that it would, it, then I wasn't fat. You know what I mean? And it was just something else, you know. And, uh, because of that, I had a really, really bad relationship with women, multiple women all the time, many partners as I could get, living double, triple, quadruple lives, relationships with all these people. The first thing that happened was when I got with Bunny, it was something that just happened where I was immediately, I didn't wanna talk to nobody. I just wanted to be with her. And somebody used to always tell me that anybody who's ever built an empire, it was of modern era. It was always a one-woman man.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
10. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I mean? Because when you focus on one woman and one woman focuses on you and y'all focus on building together, I've seen it with you and your wife, it's amazing what happens. So it's crazy, Jay, just what happened the day I just was like, "This is all that matters. It's just me and you and building this thing together." And she came straight in and ... Now, keep in mind, I'm fixing to get custody of a kid that I don't even have a place for them to live. I don't know what I'm doing with my life. Bunny comes right in and goes, "Look, I don't know if we're gonna work or not, but I'll help you get custody of your daughter. Let's go get an apartment for you. I'll go stand in court beside you as a, you know, as a person of this." Like, she, she put together this thing for me to get custody of. We call her our daughter now because she raises her as her own, and she calls Bunny "Mama." We've had that little girl for eight years now. And she gave me purpose because I felt like our story was one that could help so many people. Two broken people that have, were able to kind of heal and then come together, not as healed as we probably should've been even, but then we were able to heal together and grow together and learn together, and just knowing I have somebody that really supports me, really encourages me, and holds me accountable, too. Bunny will ... You know, I'm sure your wife's the same way.
11. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
12. JRJelly Roll
  When them doors close, man, Bunny will get in my ass.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, same, same.
14. JRJelly Roll
  Bunny will tell me what's really going on. She will check me if I start egoing out a little bit or getting a little something, Bunny will be the first person to go, "Man, I don't know what's up with you, man." You know what I'm saying? [laughs] She is a ... She was the first woman, and I know people are gonna say this ain't right, but she was the first woman I had a healthy amount of fear of.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
16. JRJelly Roll
  I've never been afraid of losing something before, ever. Never. I was always lived by the motto of heat. If you can get rid ... If you can't get rid of it in 30 seconds, it don't need to be in your life, you know? And she was the first one where I was like, "I don't wanna lose this. I don't wanna blow this. I'm willing to do the work for this. I'm willing to get in there." Talking about doing work, um, this'll be a cool podcast to share this story. Me and my wife, r- I was learning about how trauma affects us in our chil- in our chil- in our children years and about. My wife was in a place where when she was growing up, she had a very abusive stepmother and a father that was detached, and she was grounded to her room a lot, so her room became her safe place. When I was growing up, I had a mother that never left her room, so for me, the room is a dark place.
17. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
18. JRJelly Roll
  Right?
19. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
20. JRJelly Roll
  It reminds me of a story about you and your wife, uh, the dishes.
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yes.
22. JRJelly Roll
  Remember the dishes story?
23. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
24. JRJelly Roll
  You sit down. Y'all, you, you do them after y'all watch TV. She does them before TV.
25. JSJay Shetty
  Yes, yes. Well remembered, yes.
26. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah. So it's like this is a similar thing, but a, you know ... So imagine when she would shell up and life would be hard on her, she would back into the bedroom.
27. JSJay Shetty
  The room, yeah.
28. JRJelly Roll
  What does that trigger for me, Jay? It's my mother.
29. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
30. JRJelly Roll
  I gotta go entertain my mom. "What's wrong? What up?" Go to the room, try, I'm trying, trying to hoist her out But she's h- I think she needs to come out here to be better.
50:35 – 55:07
Why Asking for Help Shows Strength, Not Weakness
1. JSJay Shetty
  What does it take to have the humility to have your partner help you heal?
2. JRJelly Roll
  Mm.
3. JSJay Shetty
  Because I think it requires humility on both parts to, A, allow someone to heal you, and B, heal someone else without judging them and, like you said, giving grace and space. Like, how do, how do you strike that balance, especially as a man, of putting your ego aside and allowing someone to come in with the medicine?
4. JRJelly Roll
  I had to quit looking at the word help as, um, an ego death and start looking at it as, um ... I had to start looking at it as a empowerment almost.
5. JSJay Shetty
  That's so good.
6. JRJelly Roll
  You know, to just be like, "Hey, can, can I get some help?" There's a book that I read when I was in an on-site doing some therapy work. It ... I'll, I'll always butcher the name, and they should've changed the name 'cause of this, by the way.
7. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
8. JRJelly Roll
  But it's like ... You probably read it. It's a children's book, but it's all drawn. It's like the horse-
9. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
10. JRJelly Roll
  ... the mule, the donkey-
11. JSJay Shetty
  The fox. Yeah. [laughs]
12. JRJelly Roll
  ... and the fox, right? And the ... It's this version [laughs] of Winnie the Pooh. They coulda done way better. They picked weird animals. That person should call me. I'll help them with the next book.
13. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
14. JRJelly Roll
  But it ... They, they had some really good stuff in it. Um.
15. JSJay Shetty
  It's a great book.
16. JRJelly Roll
  But it goes to the horse, and it goes, "What's the hardest thing you've ever had to do?" And the horse goes, "Ask for help." I cried. I seen that illustration the first time sitting in that cabin. Of course, I was in a highly emotional pl- place. I was doing some intensive therapy. But I just bawled, 'cause I was like, "Man, that's a core thing with me and my wife. We gotta look at the word help as ..." We're trying to make the word help sexy now.
17. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
18. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I mean?
19. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, yeah.
20. JRJelly Roll
  Like, instead of like this, "Ew, help," 'cause that's how we're growing up. Like, you don't ask for help. I'm trying to look at it like, "Oh, that's sexy. She asked me to help her with something." You know what I mean?
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. [laughs]
22. JRJelly Roll
  Or like, "Yo, can, can I run something by you?" That's like ... Man, I get goosebumps if she hits-
23. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
24. JRJelly Roll
  If she hit ... If I hit her with that or if she hits me, it's like, "Oh, this is, this is the ... This is-
25. JSJay Shetty
  I love that
26. JRJelly Roll
  ... we're growing. This is where we grow, baby." You know what I mean? We call it the foxhole.
27. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
28. JRJelly Roll
  That's the biggest thing, is that we started making it fun. Like, "Let's get in the foxhole. Let's huddle up. Let's talk about this," you know, like making real decisions. It's kinda where we started thriving. So it went from being afraid to ask for help to like now it's like our thriving point. Like, when we can really get in that foxhole and start trying to sharpen each other's skills, it's really cool.
29. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. That, that putting your ego aside's huge. I, I wrote another chapter that was called, um, Your Partner Is Your Guru.
30. JRJelly Roll
  Mm.
55:07 – 1:03:04
Jelly Roll's Mission
1. JSJay Shetty
  read a few things that are happening right now because they're so beautiful. Save Me is one of the most played songs at recovery centers. I mean, that, how does that f- let me, before I go on, how does that feel?
2. JRJelly Roll
  Unbelievable, man. It's one of the coolest experiences of my life is being able to especially catch people in that first 30 days or those first 10 or 15 days. Any time we get to go back to a detox center and love on people and play songs for them, we go to prisons all the time and play, and we go to homeless shelters, but you catch somebody on them first 10 days, man, 'cause I know what them 10 days are, you know? And to know that that's the song getting people through that particular stretch, I couldn't, you know. It's like when they told me that, um, Save Me's becoming the new Free Bird in the South for funeral homes, 'cause you know Free Bird, old Lynyrd Skynyrd song, has been like the famous funeral home in the South, and they said they get more requests for Save Me now. And that used to really bum me out and make me sad, 'cause I used to carry that, but then I started thinking about how much that's helping people grieve, because how many songs have really helped me grieve, you know what I mean? Uh, uh, Toby Keith's, "I'm gonna miss that smile. I'm gonna miss you, my friend." I mean, it got me through the death of my father. I listen to that song every day. So I know how music can do that, Even Though I'm Leaving by Luke Combs, you know?
3. JSJay Shetty
  I, I think it's beautiful to hear that, to feel that your music's there. And then this one, too. When you performed for the Oregon prison mates.
4. JRJelly Roll
  [laughs]
5. JSJay Shetty
  The inmates. Uh, it's the first time the prison has allowed live music in 20 years.
6. JRJelly Roll
  [laughs]
7. JSJay Shetty
  I mean, how does that feel? That's a-
8. JRJelly Roll
  That's cool. Stevie Ray Vaughan, so even cooler shoes to follow. For them to trust us enough to bring our message to a yard, that prison has the most lifers in Oregon.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
10. JRJelly Roll
  Oregon, there's 12 prisons in Oregon. It has the most lifers. I probably met 30, 40 men that day that were doing life. It was such a different perspective, Jay, because you're not... Normally, when you go into a jail, you're kind of trying to show that change is possible and that, you know, recidivism is, a, like, you know, you can bring down recidivism and go home and actually do something productive with your life. It's a whole different thing when you're looking at guys that aren't going home.
11. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
12. JRJelly Roll
  You know, which made it even more special, 'cause then you're just spreading one thing, hope. Just a little smile, baby. A little love. I just want to m- all I'm looking for today is a smile, 'cause I know this is a place that la- la- la, not a lot of that happens, you know? I just want these guys rocking, and it was chicken soup for the soul, Jay.
13. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
14. JRJelly Roll
  You should come with me one day.
15. JSJay Shetty
  I would l- do you know what? I was just speaking to, uh, the gentleman outside. I forgot his name. He-
16. JRJelly Roll
  Myles
17. JSJay Shetty
  ... Yes.
18. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah.
19. JSJay Shetty
  And I, I was telling him, when I was reading about researching the work you're doing, I would love to be alongside you in any way I can.
20. JRJelly Roll
  Well-
21. JSJay Shetty
  I think it's amazing
22. JRJelly Roll
  ... we're gonna reach out. We're setting up something-
23. JSJay Shetty
  It's amazing
24. JRJelly Roll
  ... big with a big prison.
25. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
26. JRJelly Roll
  Uh, we'll talk about it off camera, but-
27. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
28. JRJelly Roll
  ... we, we can use all this, but I'll tell you the exact-
29. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
30. JRJelly Roll
  ... when you'll be like, "Oh." But we do it. I'd love to have you come out and be a part of it.
1:03:04 – 1:12:12
Jelly Roll's Congressional Speech
1. JSJay Shetty
  And I wanted everyone to know this. If you haven't heard Jelly Roll's congressional speech-
2. JRJelly Roll
  Mm
3. JSJay Shetty
  ... I highly recommend it to everyone. I thought that was one of the most powerful things that I've seen you do. Every, every line was just so... What's the right word I'm looking for? It was just so clear. It was so powerful. It was so... It, it just grabbed my attention immediately. You said, uh, there was one thing that just stood out to me. I had to write it down. You said that there's 190 people every day that die in the USA, and you said that that was based on... Well, I'll let you explain. Actually, you explain the point, 'cause you went on to compare it to a 737 plane.
4. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah.
5. JSJay Shetty
  And when I heard that, I was like... I, I'm gonna let you explain because it's so powerful, but I want everyone to go listen to that speech as well.
6. JRJelly Roll
  Please. The idea that I said was could you imagine if there was a plane crashing every single day in the United States of America with 200 passengers on it, how many days would that happen before, as Americans, we completely lost it, canceled every flight, looked under every engine of every plane again, whatever co- I mean, we would... You know, I also use the comparison sometimes that if there was 11 squirrels a day dying in Central Park unexplained, I bet that don't go four days before the EPA comes out there, shuts Central Park down, and it's a national crisis. I bet 50 squirrels die before it is like, "Hold on, we've gotta figure this out." But 190 humans, Jay, every single day are dying.
7. JSJay Shetty
  Because of-
8. JRJelly Roll
  Drugs.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
10. JRJelly Roll
  Drug addiction and fentanyl. And the way we have looked at them previously as society is, "Well, that's their fault. That's their choice. They chose to be drug addicts. They should make their bed and lay in it." One, that's just such a not compassionate way to look at life and humans. It's just such a way to dehumanize people, and I think part of us dehumanizing people is why America's got put into all these separate boxes and so against each other. I say this, and I mean it. I went and spoke to Congress because I had a moment where I was like, "Maybe I should bring these statistics here," 'cause there's no way our federal government could know this is happening and not be doing nothing about it, right? I just, I, I would like to believe in the betterment of the world, that, that they just don't know. M- Let me be the guy that goes and tells them like, "Hey, maybe y'all are missing what's really happening out here. Y'all are so busy arguing with each other about stuff that people have been disagreeing about for 100 years anyways." What I know is, and I said this in a speech, and I really, really do hope y'all go check it out. This is somebody's cousin. Jay, have you ever known somebody that's been addicted to drugs? Like real, like a heroin addiction, like a full-blown, like somebody close to you by chance?
11. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, close to a friend, yeah.
12. JRJelly Roll
  If you've never experienced that, for the p- people watching that might not have, it's like seeing somebody you've known your whole life become a zombie.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
14. JRJelly Roll
  It's like watching somebody you've known your whole life become a completely different human. They talk different, act different. It's irrational. It makes no sense at all. You have no clue what drugs do to people if you've never really experienced that. And that, those are mostly the people who are quick to go, "Oh, they should, just shouldn't have did them in the first place." It's like, man, you don't know what it was like when that young lady broke her back in that car accident, and they started feeding her these extremely addictive pain pills to help with the pain that she couldn't shake herself out of. And then eventually, if you're doing 30, 20 Lortabs a day, it's cheaper to go get a gram of heroin. You know, this issue, these are humans. It's kinda like I try to talk about the inmates, man. Um, kids, they've done horrible things, but they're humans, and I wanna humanize. What I wanted to do in that speech, Jay, was I wanted to humanize drug addicts.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
16. JRJelly Roll
  I wanted people to remember that. And that's why I said to that panel, I said, "It's some of y'all right now sitting up here in this Senate that have family members that you're thinking of right this moment that are addicted to drugs, and you know what I'm telling is the truth. Does that person have to die before you walk up here and make a difference?" Um, that's all I want, man. And w- just back to practicing what we preach. It's sad that we didn't learn nothing from... They said history's bound to repeat itself if we don't learn nothing from it. And I don't think anything could be more true if you watch what was the cocaine epidemic into the crack ep- epidemic, into the pill mill epidemic, into what was the heroin epidemic that's now into the fentanyl epidemic. And it's, has done nothing but in, it's a snowball that's just getting bigger and bigger and less addressed. We gotta do something about it, man.
17. JSJay Shetty
  How did they receive it? What was the, what did, what did you feel was their response?
18. JRJelly Roll
  I felt genuine love in that room. I felt like they were very receptive. Um, I th- the bill, the, the bill got passed into law, which was a big, which was a huge, huge deal, 'cause that bill had got put up three or four times before and never got passed, so.
19. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm. That's huge.
20. JRJelly Roll
  But what it did the most, Jay, was I'm walking the Grammy red carpet, and I will never say the names, but when I tell you A-list celebrities, we'll talk about it off camera, friends of ours.
21. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
22. JRJelly Roll
  Friends of mine now, have probably been friends of yours, are dragging me to the side going, "Hey, I just wanna tell you, I've never heard a song of yours, but I watched the five minutes and 37 seconds that you gave that speech to Congress, and I cried because my son is seven years sober."
23. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
24. JRJelly Roll
  And right then I was like, "This is what God's purpose was for me, was for these kinda conversations to not be taboo no more."
25. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
26. JRJelly Roll
  To be, these aren't conversations that are being had on Grammy red carpets. These aren't conversations being had at Clive Davis' party. And I'm creating this kind of vulnerability with people that they, that they'll walk up to me. Cele- and it wasn't even just celebrities, people that worked there, security guys, "Hey, man, what you did at Senate, man, thank you. I got a nephew. I got a niece." It showed me how... It started putting faces to these 190 people a day.
27. JSJay Shetty
  Mm. Mm.
28. JRJelly Roll
  And once we started putting faces to them, I think things will change. It's my hope at least, you know?
29. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. No, I think that's what, whether it's you telling us the stories of the inmates or the congressional speech, I love that you said it in your own words that it's really humanizing these stories and these experiences of people that are happening all around us, and we either choose not to believe they exist, or we live in a blissful ignorance or, you know, hide away from it all or put it away into this area of society. And I think it, it's, it's harsh, but it's like until we have to deal with it face to face, we don't really deal with it. And so being aware of it, hearing about it in all of these spaces, opening up conversations, you're right. I mean, I hear it. I hear about, I'm sure from this interview I'm gonna get so many calls and messages saying, "Oh my God, I saw the clip of you and Jelly Roll, and Jelly Roll speaking about that made..." You know, that's gonna happen.
30. JRJelly Roll
  Right. I hope so.
1:12:12 – 1:19:15
Breaking Free from Generational Curses
1. JRJelly Roll
  Wow.
2. JSJay Shetty
  Well, I hope, I hope there's accountability there too as well.
3. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah. [laughs] You're right. Me too.
4. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] And I'm like, yeah. I think, I think that does need to change too.
5. JRJelly Roll
  Me too, for sure.
6. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, it's, it's, there's, there's stuff there happening. There was this picture that I saw you spoke about. You'll do it just for a second. This picture that I loved. It brought so much joy to my heart. This one.
7. JRJelly Roll
  Oh, yeah.
8. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
9. JRJelly Roll
  That's my munchkin, dude.
10. JSJay Shetty
  It brought so much joy to my heart when I saw that.
11. JRJelly Roll
  Sheesh.
12. JSJay Shetty
  What's it been like to perform together, man? 'Cause-
13. JRJelly Roll
  It's been so cool
14. JSJay Shetty
  ... that's, like, such a-
15. JRJelly Roll
  Just to share anything in life together, but then to share what we both love and- I was the first, and I don't, I don't know, I think if I remember right, you were the first person in your family to kind of go into the space you're in.
16. JSJay Shetty
  Yes.
17. JRJelly Roll
  Nobody, we, no... I don't come from a family of musicians. I come from a family of the opposite. I don't, nobody in my family can carry a tune in a bucket.
18. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
19. JRJelly Roll
  We all, nobody has music theory. We sound like drunk alley cats together. It is nothing. So when my daughter started getting interested in the guitar and the piano, it was like, I didn't w- I tried not to show her.
20. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
21. JRJelly Roll
  But everything in me was just glowing.
22. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
23. JRJelly Roll
  Same way, I have a niece that plays the guitar, and I just was so excited when she picked it up. I was like, "I think I might have been the inspiration that'll change this family, and that in three generations we'll be a music family."
24. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
25. JRJelly Roll
  Three generations from now, those kids will be born probably wanting to play instruments because everybody in the family did something, you know?
26. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
27. JRJelly Roll
  And they'll link back one day and go, "We always been a music family." And then somebody gets to go, "No."
28. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
29. JRJelly Roll
  "Actually, you had a great-great-grandfather that wrote a bunch of country songs that was famous." [laughs]
30. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] That's beautiful. That's beautiful, man. It's like, uh, you, you're getting to rewrite your family's history.
1:19:15 – 1:26:50
Analyzing Song Lyrics
1. JSJay Shetty
  you just grow, I mean, this new album, I've, I've picked out some of my favorite lyrics from some of my favorite tracks from yours. There's this, uh ... [smacks lips] ooh, this one, Heart of Stone.
2. JRJelly Roll
  Yes.
3. JSJay Shetty
  There's one lyric that says, "I've had enough of my demons, but angels only meet you where you are, and I'm in the dark."
4. JRJelly Roll
  Mm. This is my favorite song on the album.
5. JSJay Shetty
  I did not know that.
6. JRJelly Roll
  I kn- that's what's so cool.
7. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
8. JRJelly Roll
  And it's my favorite song 'cause of the lyrics. I think these lyrics say the most. In this whole album, if there were like lyrically who do you stand for and what do you stand by on this album, I, uh, every song's great. Winning Streak means a lot to me.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, love that. Yeah
10. JRJelly Roll
  ... but this record, man, um, that line that "angels only meet you where you are, and I'm in the dark," and it goes, "At least for now, Lord, I ain't losing hope that somehow you could make a heart of gold from a heart of stone." And I love songs when you can read a song and it's impactful. That is, as a songwriter, Jay, that's it.
11. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
12. JRJelly Roll
  That's the tell-tale, 'cause most of the time our message is in the melody, and if you don't have the melody there, it'll kind of be like, ah, that didn't sound as cool as I thought it did when I just read it flat. But when I read Heart of Stone, it goes, uh, "Dear Lord, can you hear me?" Um, what, uh, "Dear Lord, can you hear me? I've fallen out of grace. It's running like the river, filled with all of my mistakes. My blood is getting heavy. There's metal in my veins." The second verse goes, "Dear Lord, can you hear me? I'm shackled in these chains. I'm haunted by the lies of every time I said I'd change."
13. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
14. JRJelly Roll
  "It's slipping through the shadows."
15. JSJay Shetty
  Whoo. Phew. That's good.
16. JRJelly Roll
  "And that's weighing on my soul. The lights are shining on me, but there ain't nobody home." I get goosebumps reading that, and I wrote it.
17. JSJay Shetty
  I got them now too.
18. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I mean?
19. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
20. JRJelly Roll
  It's like that's ... To me, that was the ultimate cry for help, you know what I mean? And like my whole music is about honesty. I love the idea of being like, "God, I know I need you," you know what I mean? "But you gotta come over here, and I'm in a really dark place if you're gonna get me out of this one," you know?
21. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
22. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah, man, that song is just the goose- I just ... Every lyric on that record, man. Just that song was the one ... I would not let that song go. I, we, we wrote that song three different times.
23. JSJay Shetty
  Oh, wow.
24. JRJelly Roll
  True story. Just where I'd go home and just be like, "It's just not ... " I wanted every, every single line. You've wrote books, so you know every single word-
25. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
26. JRJelly Roll
  ... can't be a killer.
27. JSJay Shetty
  It can't.
28. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I mean?
29. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
30. JRJelly Roll
  But this song, I just was like, "I want every line-
1:26:50 – 1:32:01
Healing the Inner Child Through Faith
1. JSJay Shetty
  Jim Todd.
2. JRJelly Roll
  Yes.
3. JSJay Shetty
  I mean-
4. JRJelly Roll
  This is crazy.
5. JSJay Shetty
  This is crazy.
6. JRJelly Roll
  [laughs]
7. JSJay Shetty
  Like, when I read about this, I was like, what?
8. JRJelly Roll
  [laughs]
9. JSJay Shetty
  So Jim Todd, who's the young attorney who prosecuted you, you're now working with him.
10. JRJelly Roll
  That's true. This is a fact. It's the first time we've told this story too. This is really cool.
11. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. This is amazing.
12. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah. He's starting the Dinkins, um, the Dinkins Center for juveniles to teach trades for juvenile at-risk kids. And you wanna talk about somebody just being awesome, Jay? Imagine being the guy who ... He charged me as an adult, bound me over. I mean, the hardest thing that's ever happened in my life, a felony I'm still trying to get rid of, is now working to help juveniles, and then me, the same kid he bound over, who was as wrong as I should've been, pr- you know, are now work ... It's just to me, one, it's such a change. It's such a signature of like ... I keep having these really cool moments, Jay, where I'm like, "What a full circle mo- ... God, really?" You know how there's a, there's an old saying that, uh, when you do right, they'll restore everything that went wrong?
13. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
14. JRJelly Roll
  I'm watching it all restore. It's happening, Jay, right in front of me, dog. Like, my old prosecuting attorney's my partner now to help juveniles. You know, um, that old juvenile I was in now let me build studios in it and paint the walls for the kids. Um, you just like, I look at all these moments and I'm like, man, God is like, he's healing my inner child in front of the world. It's ... Dude, when I got slimed at Nickelodeon, I was like, I went back that night and I was like ... And I got to do some at Summer Slam. I got to choke slam somebody at Summer Slam. I was like, God is really healing my inner child in front of the world. You know what I mean? I suffered in silence by myself for so long that I'm now getting to redeem myself on a national platform. The sheriff to Davidson County's jail, his name's Daron Hall. 22 years he's been a sheriff. He was the sheriff whenever I was in that county jail the last time I got locked up, the day my daughter was born. He gave me a key to the jail I was locked up in. He's ... I'm the first inmate he's ever gave a key to the jail to. And, uh, I got a necklace made. I made it diamond crusted and got a necklace with a pair of handcuffs for every time I got arrested for it, and I call it my redemption chain. And to have the relationship with Sheriff Daron Hall, that we're close. My mayor loves me. Me and Jim Todd, I mean, that guy put me in jail. [laughs] You know what I'm saying"
15. JSJay Shetty
  Who reached out to who?
16. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah, yeah. What's funny is they reached out to us. Now, I've always been friends with him because when he became an attorney, we used to talk, and he represented a couple of cases of mine that wasn't that case, 'cause he, conflict of interest. The cool part of this story is not even just what I'm doing with it, but him. Think about the heart change he had to be hands-on and watch the system fail these kids for so many years that it bothered him enough that later in life he was like, "I gotta circle back and fix that."
17. JSJay Shetty
  That's beautiful, isn't it?
18. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I mean?
19. JSJay Shetty
  Just, yeah.
20. JRJelly Roll
  Like, Jim Todd's the real hero of that story to me, you know what I mean? 'Cause hell, I've been changed. My life.
21. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
22. JRJelly Roll
  Glad you came around.
23. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
24. JRJelly Roll
  You know what I'm saying? [laughs]
25. JSJay Shetty
  That's what it just shows, that if everyone's intentionally reflecting, looking at their life, what's possible.
26. JRJelly Roll
  That's it.
27. JSJay Shetty
  It's amazing.
28. JRJelly Roll
  Just a little bit of a c- Jim Todd had some guy in the glass moment, didn't he?
29. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
30. JRJelly Roll
  At some point in time he went and looked at the guy in the glass and said, "You know what? I was a part of the problem at one point too. And, um, I wanna be part of the solution now. Let's help these kids. Let's give these kids the resources they didn't have whenever I was a district attorney." And they said that, uh, he had that heart back then. But you wanna talk about humanizing stuff, Jay, and I go, I do a songwriter program with a company called The Beat of Life at the juvenile I was incarcerated in. And, uh, we go in there one day and Judge Callaway, who's a judge in juvenile, is there, and she came in to write songs, Jay. And I'm in there watching. For the first time, I'm listening to her and her group, and they're giggling. They're laughing. They're writing lyrics. They're having a ball. And I thought to myself Back to the human thing. I love that we've had themes in this whole conversation. She's seen those kids as kids for the first time. She got not, not a inmate case number that killed somebody or shot somebody or did something wrong. She's seen them as little giddy 15-year-olds playing cards and trying to write a song they never wrote before, and they got to see her as a concerned mother. And man, it just, it was so... I cried. I mean, it was just so special to watch, and it was s- it was such a good thing. They were so in the moment. They didn't realize how special it was. It's when she left, I was like, "I want you to know that that is the coolest thing that I've ever seen a judge do, that you came, took off the robe, showed up in regular clothes, and sat down and wrote songs with these kids. Like, that'll go miles with everybody." You know what I mean? Now, I understand you still have a job to do and guidelines you gotta abide by, but I think this humanized everybody. I think we all looked at each other a little different that day in that jail cell. You know what I mean?
1:32:01 – 1:36:26
A Heartfelt Letter from His Brother
1. JSJay Shetty
  It's incredible. I wanna end with one thing, Jelly Roll, that, uh, we reached out to your brother who sent through this beautiful love letter for you.
2. JRJelly Roll
  Oh.
3. JSJay Shetty
  Um, Scott?
4. JRJelly Roll
  Yes.
5. JSJay Shetty
  And so I'm gonna read it to you, if you don't mind.
6. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah, please.
7. JSJay Shetty
  Because, uh, you've given us such a gift today, and I wanted to find a way to thank you, and I thought who better than the person who's known you-
8. JRJelly Roll
  Mm
9. JSJay Shetty
  ... for so long. So he says, "Dear Bubba love."
10. JRJelly Roll
  That's my Bubba.
11. JSJay Shetty
  "Where to begin? First off, I just wanna tell you how unbelievably proud I am of you for what you have achieved, and even more so the man you have become. Personally, one of my proudest memories was being in the courthouse with you, Bunny, Dad, and Pook the day you got full custody of Bailey. Makes me tear up a little just remembering how proud we all were of the man you grew to be even back then. One of those moments I remember looking at Dad with a smile and not even having to say a word. Growing up, I always saw the talent that the world is getting to see now. Thinking back to your first day of middle school, and you had missed the bus, so Mama said, 'Take your brother to school.' We pull up across from J.C. Napier Housing Projects, and before you could open the car door, me telling you that it would probably be a good idea to start rapping or to not be the guy who doesn't throw the first punch. Lol.
12. JRJelly Roll
  [laughs]
13. JSJay Shetty
  You figured it out, brother. You were freestyling every ride after that. I know growing up, I was not always the best role model, and the older I got has given me many sleepless nights of regret. You always, always, always came to visit me when I was locked up, and yeah, I came to juvenile a few times, but when you got bound over, I was not there. Just know that I had to leave TM, Bubba. I know it had to hurt you that your brother wasn't there, and I'm so sorry. Being young and where we came from is my only excuse, Bubba, although not a good one, but the amazing part of it all is what you're doing as a human now. Being so young and getting out of being incarcerated over and over, then hearing you had a little girl born while being there. You grew strength and changed everything. Started helping others with your songs, those who went and still are going through similar pasts and struggles as we did. Being at your shows and seeing people cry and be so touched by the words you sing and person you are is amazing. You portray love and hope, JJ. You got out of lockup and totally changed your direction, taking all the negatives and turning them positive for helping others to overcome what they have gone through is amazing. Reaching out to me in Idaho Falls several months ago and taking me out the dark place I was in for years and years, I'm forever grateful for you, brother.
14. JRJelly Roll
  Mm.
15. JSJay Shetty
  You've always been there for me and our family. I love you more than you will ever know. I know Dad is in heaven looking down, smiling ear to ear with Nan and BB. He called it 30-plus years ago at the Italian street fair in Brentwood, TN, where you were on stage doing karaoke to George Strait. He looked at me and said, 'Jason has never met a stranger. One day, he will be an entertainer.' Well, look at you now, Bubba. I just want you to know how proud your family is of you, and thank you for doing what only you can do every day, helping the world to be better and letting people know it's never too late. You're a true inspiration to so many, including your big brother. I love you, Bubba. Scott 'Scooby' DeFord."
16. JRJelly Roll
  Scooby, baby.
17. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
18. JRJelly Roll
  God, man. [sniffs] That is so awesome, dude.
19. JSJay Shetty
  It's for you, brother.
20. JRJelly Roll
  Oh, thank you, brother. God, I love him, man. He didn't even tell me. Just, well, he just left.
21. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
22. JRJelly Roll
  I was just with him three days ago.
23. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
24. JRJelly Roll
  Oh, man. [sniffs] Oh.
25. JSJay Shetty
  I wanna thank you for, uh, just being a amazing inspiration in my life, brother. Being introduced to you, from the moment we met, I was like, "This is the guy I need to talk to. Uh, I'm here to support you, serve alongside you in any way I can."
26. JRJelly Roll
  Thank you, Jay.
27. JSJay Shetty
  And, uh, I can't wait to go on to see what you do. I know this is just the beginning, and I'm so, so inspired by you.
28. JRJelly Roll
  Yeah.
29. JSJay Shetty
  You're a true, true light in this world and a true, uh, testament to every transformation we believe in. You're, you're living it right now, so deeply humbled, and, uh, we end every episode
1:36:26 – 1:39:26
Fast Five with Jelly Roll
1. JSJay Shetty
  with a Fast Five. Every question has to be answered in one word to one sentence.
2. JRJelly Roll
  All right.
3. JSJay Shetty
  And, uh-
4. JRJelly Roll
  I love that. First of all, though, Jay, you, you-
5. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
6. JRJelly Roll
  ... I need to give you your flowers, though, brother. You, uh... Thank you again for your impact. You don't know how many people you help. Um, I always have this phrase I use that, uh, "It's not a ticket stub. It's a story." Those YouTube views are souls, baby, and you're touching them.
7. JSJay Shetty
  Thank you, man. Appreciate that deeply. Deeply, man. I feel that, and I receive it All right. Last, last few minutes. Uh, f- question one, what is the best advice you've ever had or received?
8. JRJelly Roll
  Uh, best advice I ever heard or received, as cliche as it is, just don't give up. It just, my father was real big about don't give up. He was just super, super... He believed in the law of hours, that if you put enough time into something, it would work.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm. Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever had or received?
10. JRJelly Roll
  Give up. [laughs]
11. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] That's good.
12. JRJelly Roll
  The worst advice I ever received was somebody telling me, you know, it's not gonna work.
13. JSJay Shetty
  I love that.
14. JRJelly Roll
  Cut your losses. [laughs]
15. JSJay Shetty
  Question number three, if you could define your current purpose, what would it be?
16. JRJelly Roll
  Mm. My current purpose is to help and heal. I think my pur- current purpose is to help people heal through music.
17. JSJay Shetty
  Mm. Beautiful. Uh, question number four, a message you'd like to share to anyone who's listening right now. Like, just what you need them to hear, what you feel they need to hear right now.
18. JRJelly Roll
  Uh, I said it in my speech, but I live by this quote. It's a quote I live by, that the windshield is bigger than the rear view for a reason, baby. You gotta move forward, dog.
19. JSJay Shetty
  I love it. And fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create a law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
20. JRJelly Roll
  Love. Truly love. Truly act out of love. Um, if you just thought to yourself, is that what love would say, every time you were fixing to say something, it would change the way we all talk to each other.
21. JSJay Shetty
  Jelly Roll, thank you so much.
22. JRJelly Roll
  Thank you, brother. Thank you, man.
23. JSJay Shetty
  The album is out right now while we're speaking, and, uh-
24. JRJelly Roll
  Yes, sir. Beautifully Broken, baby. You got the biggest podcast in the world. Shameless plug. My name is Jason Jelly Roll DeFord. My album is available. [laughs] It's called Beautifully Broken. Check it out. I'm trying to have my first number one album.
25. JSJay Shetty
  We're gonna make it happen.
26. JRJelly Roll
  [laughs]
27. JSJay Shetty
  We're gonna make it happen.
28. JRJelly Roll
  Your mouth to God's ear-
29. JSJay Shetty
  Beautifully Broken
30. JRJelly Roll
  ... Jay, baby. [laughs]

Episode duration: 1:39:26

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Intro

Finding Your Purpose

Grief From Losing A Parent

What Sparked His Musical Journey?

Getting Incarcerated At 15

"I was mad at life..."

The Barriers to Self-Forgiveness

The Best Question Jelly Roll Has Ever Been Asked

Life Behind Bars as a Juvenile

The Fine Line Between Accountability and Self-Sabotage

Guilt, Shame, and Judgement Are Your Enemy

The Reality of Food Addiction

Breaking the Chains of Addiction

Finding Someone Who Sees Your True Worth

Why Asking for Help Shows Strength, Not Weakness

Jelly Roll's Mission

Jelly Roll's Congressional Speech

Breaking Free from Generational Curses

Analyzing Song Lyrics

Healing the Inner Child Through Faith

A Heartfelt Letter from His Brother

Fast Five with Jelly Roll

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