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Jay Shetty PodcastKOBE BRYANT'S LAST GREAT INTERVIEW On How To FIND PURPOSE In LIFE | Kobe Bryant & Jay Shetty
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EVERY SPOKEN WORD
50 min read · 9,842 words- 0:00 – 2:00
Fatherhood and Creating Stories for His Daughters
- KBKobe Bryant
To say, okay, it's okay to fail 'cause you're gonna be loved no matter what. I had to look at it from a long term 'cause I wasn't gonna give up on the game.
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- KBKobe Bryant
So I had to say, "Okay, this year, I'm gonna get better at that."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
"Next year, this," and then so forth and so on, and then patiently I was able to catch them. [inspirational music]
- JSJay Shetty
The first question I want to ask you, because so much of your content right now that you're creating here at Granity is aimed at helping young people-
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... aimed at helping children. And as a father of four girls, I wanted to ask you: what's the biggest thing you've learned about yourself by being a father?
- KBKobe Bryant
Uh, you know, it's amazing, like, when you become a parent, um, things become much more... You know, life becomes, you know, um... It lines things up for you a little differently, right? Like, before you have kids, me and my wife, we can travel anytime. You know, there's work, and, you know, you become very, uh... You have a very clear focus. When you have children, it becomes about them. It's not about you guys anymore, right? And so that shift, it's a big one. You know, it's one of kind of a, a, a selfishness together and then to being absolutely selfless and doing anything you can for your kids. And so what I'm trying to do is create content to teach them, first and foremost. That's why I started this whole thing, is just reading stories to them that I felt like didn't exist. You know, our kids are athletes, and, uh, they love reading about princesses and all these fairytales and, you know, they get a little sick and tired about the man saving the princess every time and, you know, the same old stuff, magical wands and all that. My kids are athletes, man. They wanna learn about soccer balls and basketballs and volleyballs and, you know, magic that comes from that.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. And I love that you're encouraging young people to think more imaginatively about sports.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And I think that's where you go a step deeper. You know, for me, observing you and learning about you and hearing you speak in other interviews and everything, what I'm fascinated by is that you've dealt with things in life pretty head-on.
- KBKobe Bryant
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
Right? You've always gone at it.
- 2:00 – 3:43
Writing Dear Basketball and Distilling Messages
- JSJay Shetty
What took you a while? What was something in your life that you were shy about originally or that took you a while to go head-on with, but then finally you got there and you figured it out?
- KBKobe Bryant
Uh, writing Dear Basketball, that, that was a hard jump, you know, because I, I had, I'd written before. I mean, I, I started writing probably about 17 years ago, and so practicing every day. A lot of things that I, that I wrote were, were ads. And so when you write an ad, you know, nobody looks up at who wrote the ad, right?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
You can kind of... There's a certain, uh, anonymity that comes along with that, right? But writing Dear Basketball was different. You know, it's putting it out there for the world to see. It's trying to create a short film, and, uh, I didn't know if I could do it, man. And, uh, you know, it was my daughter who kind of put things in perspective for me. Gianna, she's now 13, and she was like, "Well, you know, you always tell us to go for it, so..."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
She put you on the spot, yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah, she put me on the spot. She was like, "You gonna talk about it or you gonna be about it?" basically. And you know, and that, that gave me the final push. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
I love that. When you started writing 17 years ago, did you envision that one day you would move into this storytelling-
- KBKobe Bryant
No
- JSJay Shetty
... space, or was it just something you enjoyed at the time? [laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
[laughs] Oh, no. No, man. It was just something I enjoyed, and I enjoyed writing ads. It was something funny about trying to distill a message down into 30 seconds or a minute, depending on the budget. You know what I mean?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
Trying to say something important, um, trying to speak to the, you know, brand attributes but also speak to something that's greater and that has a stronger message, stronger philosophical message, and how do you connect those dots? So putting that puzzle together was something that was really intriguing.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
But, like, you know, I never thought I'd be writing novels or movies and that sort of stuff. Never, man.
- JSJay Shetty
I love that, man. I love it how everything evolves naturally. And actually hearing you say that, it reminds me.
- 3:43 – 5:53
Cutting Through Clutter: Sports as a Metaphor for Life
- JSJay Shetty
So my vision when I was sharing earlier became very clearly making wisdom go viral.
- KBKobe Bryant
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And I was like, how do I take these teachings that are, like, so sacred, they're hidden away in these books-
- KBKobe Bryant
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... and how do I make them really relevant and accessible and practical to the whole world?
- KBKobe Bryant
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
Because I know that anyone can access them. They're universal, right? These, these teachings-
- KBKobe Bryant
Sure
- JSJay Shetty
... can apply to anyone, but sometimes they're just hidden away-
- KBKobe Bryant
Sure
- JSJay Shetty
... and a young person doesn't know how to find them.
- KBKobe Bryant
Sure.
- JSJay Shetty
So that inspires me hearing that, man.
- KBKobe Bryant
That's beautiful, too, because especially in today's, um, in today's world, there's so much clutter. You know, it becomes harder for kids to try to weave through a lot of the crap that's out there to find, uh, stuff that's actually beneficial to them.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. It was... I think it... You reminded me. I think E.O. Wilson said, "We're drowning in information, starving for wisdom."
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Right?
- KBKobe Bryant
Yes, sure. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Especially. And that's why I think your work is cutting through because I think what you've managed to do with your new work is that you're finding ways to connect with what people care about, but you're taking it a step deeper.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Right?
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
You're not, you're not just settling for like, "Let's talk about sports." It's not just about sports.
- KBKobe Bryant
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
It's about life, right?
- KBKobe Bryant
It's about the metaphor that sports-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- KBKobe Bryant
... has for life. I mean, you know, sports is the gretest, greatest metaphor we have in terms of dealing with life. 'Cause, you know, even if you listen to music, music will give you guidance-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- KBKobe Bryant
... right? That you can then meditate on and think about how you would apply it. In sports, you have to apply it in the here and now. I mean, you're faced with challenges moment to moment. You're faced with pressures and anxiety and communication or the lack thereof and all this other stuff. Like, it's in the moment, so you have to live it, and when you practice those things, you become better at it.
- 5:53 – 9:20
His Father's Love and Unpacking Fear
- JSJay Shetty
Tell me what that statement meant to you at that time and, and how did it actually motivate you to continue scoring 60-
- KBKobe Bryant
Well-
- JSJay Shetty
... rather than go, "Oh, I'm all right at zero"?
- KBKobe Bryant
Well, it did more than that, right? So, like, the basketball stuff, you know, speaks for itself in terms of what that comment made, you know, did for me in terms of giving me stability. And giving me confidence to say, "Okay, it's okay to fail 'cause you're gonna be loved no matter what." And that m- that doesn't just mean basketball, that means anything in life. You know, that means writing. That means being an entrepreneur. That means, um, having the confidence to go for it. And, um, I've seen too many parents do the exact opposite, and it terrifies children, and children become paralyzed by their own fear, uh, 'cause they don't have that security blanket of love and comfort.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Absolutely. How, how have you been able to, in your life, see past the cloud of emotion to actually execute on things? Because I think what we were speaking about earlier, this challenge that young people have today, everyone has today, of just so much information, so much cloud of emotion, so many feelings, so much childhood baggage that you're bringing. Like, how have you always cut through that and execute on that?
- KBKobe Bryant
You know, I, what I try to do is just try to be still.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
And understand that things come and go. Emotions come and go. The important thing is to accept them all, to embrace them all, and then you can choose to do with them what you want-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- KBKobe Bryant
... versus being controlled by emotion. You know, a lot of times I've seen players, even myself m- you know, when I was younger, being consumed by a particular fear. Um, and to the point where you're saying, "Okay, nah, it's, it's not good to feel fear. I shouldn't be nervous in this situation. Like, nah." And it does nothing but grow versus stepping back and saying, "Yeah, I, I am nervous about this situation. Yeah, I am fearful about this situation, but what am I afraid of?" And then you kind of unpack it.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
And then it gives you abi- ability to look at it for really what it is, which is nothing more than your imagination [laughs] running its course, you know?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I love that. 'Cause what you're saying is that when you're dealing with something, it's almost like, how can I get to the root of it?
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Because sometimes what we're dealing with, like you're saying, it's an imagination, an illusion. It's not really-
- KBKobe Bryant
It's not, it's not really a thing
- JSJay Shetty
... struggling. Yeah
- KBKobe Bryant
... you know? Like, you, you think about game-winning shots and, or game-winning free throws, and people go to the free throw line and they're nervous about it. Well, what are you really nervous about? If you unpack that, okay, you, you're nervous that you're gonna miss the shot. All right, so you miss the shot, then what happens? People are gonna be embarrassed. You're gonna be embarrassed because thousands of people, millions of people, see you miss the shot. All right, and then what? People are gonna talk bad about you. Okay. Right? And so you're looking at it and you go, "Are those things even important?" [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
You know what I mean?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
If that, if that is my fear, like, what, what is... You're worried about letting your teammates down? Okay, have you let them down before? Well, I'm sure in practice and things of that nature, right? They're still there.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
You know? And so when you're able to unpack it, you kinda look at it for what it is, which is really nothing.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I love that. Breaking it down, I think that's so important. I think everyone who's listening or watching right now, next time you're facing a fear, next time you're going against something, do that. Like, literally-
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... unpack it. Don't just settle for your first answer, because the first answer is rarely the right one.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah, don't hide from it, you know? You gotta be able to look at it and, you know, and, and, and deal with it head-on.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- 9:20 – 11:18
Getting Over Yourself and Focusing on Growth Over Results
- JSJay Shetty
How did you get that mentality of just being like, "I need to get over this. Like, I need to get over myself"?
- KBKobe Bryant
You know, trial and error.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
You know, you grow up and you make game-winning shots and it's awesome. And you come back the next day and miss a game-winning shot, and it's misery. And then the next day comes and you're back playing again, and you understand that life has this cyclical nature where it's, you know, what you do on Monday is fantastic, but then Tuesday's a bad day. But guess what? There's Wednesday.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
So are we just supposed to live our lives like this the whole time?
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
You know?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
Versus just staying like this and understanding that it's really just a journey of evolution every day. It's just constant improvement, constant curiosity, constantly getting better. The results don't really matter. Uh, it's the figuring out that matters.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. And we all get obsessed about the results.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, we get obsessed about, like, the output-
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... not the input, of not figuring it out and not, like, changing things. What you said, trial and error, like the experimenting.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
We forget to do that.
- KBKobe Bryant
It's unfortunate, man. Like I, I've seen a lot of players, um, especially now, you know, in, in youth basketball dealing with that. Um, you have players that are, like, bigger and faster and stronger and, you know, their coaches are just coaching them for results. You know, "We're just gonna use your size that, 'cause you're bigger than every other 12-year-old out there, to dominate today." A- a- but they're not growing.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
Right? So they're just based on that result, but they're not focused on growing this young child-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- KBKobe Bryant
... into becoming a better athlete. And, and through that, teaching them how to become a more well-rounded person. And we're missing that.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. See, what you've said there just, it... I wanna ask you this, and I'm not saying, 'cause I, you know, like, you know yourself best and you know how you've got there, so I'm asking it from a place of humility, of learning. When I look at you, I'm like, you know, your superpower isn't just your work ethic. Your superpower isn't just, like, figuring things out. Your superpower is, like, you think strategically. Like, that's a very strategic thought of saying, "This person could be this in the future if they were developed-
- KBKobe Bryant
Right
- JSJay Shetty
... as a whole individual-
- KBKobe Bryant
Right
- JSJay Shetty
... rather than just, like, let's use them for the short term."
- KBKobe Bryant
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
Like,
- 11:18 – 13:44
Thinking Long Term: The Scrawny Kid Who Caught Up
- JSJay Shetty
where did you develop that from? That ability to see beyond, to think deeper, to, to reflect deeper. Where did that come from?
- KBKobe Bryant
Mm, well, I had to do that because, you know, I grew up, growing up in Italy, um, when I first moved over there, it was, you know, I didn't speak Italian. I didn't have any friends. You know, I had the game of basketball, and through sport and playing soccer, I was able to make friends and build connections. But it was a lot of time spent alone. And, and when I came back to the States, I wasn't the most athletic kid. You know, I was really scrawny. Like, really, really skinny and had, like, major knee issues 'cause I was growing.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
So I was the dorky kid with high socks and big old knee pads.
- JSJay Shetty
It's fashionable now. [laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
It's fashionable now. It wasn't then. It wasn't then. And, and so, um, I had to look long term because in the here and now, I couldn't compete with these kids. I mean, there was kids that were, like, 12 years old with beards.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
Like, I can't-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
Can't... What am I supposed to do with that? Like, they're, they're doing windmills and dunking backwards, and I'm happy to, like, tap the backboard, you know? So I had to look at it from a long term 'cause I wasn't gonna give up on the game.
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- KBKobe Bryant
So I had to say, "Okay, this year I'm gonna get better at that."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
"Next year, this," and then so forth and so on. And then patiently I was able to catch them.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. That's- I love hearing that because I think so many of us kind of, you believe, like, when, when you see people like yourself, it's like, it's so easy as an excuse to ourselves to just be like, "Oh, you're destined for it," right? "You were made for it."
- KBKobe Bryant
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
It's kinda like that ki- you know, like-
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... oh, yeah, it's, you know... But, but when you talk about it saying, "Oh, actually, when I started, I didn't have the-
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... physicality that meant that I was gonna make it."
- KBKobe Bryant
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, you had to figure it out, and I love hearing that.
- KBKobe Bryant
You have to figure it out, man. It's, it's just piece by piece, and it's the consistency of the work, which-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- KBKobe Bryant
... I feel like a lot of parents, uh, are missing today because we're not teaching that to our kids. We tend to say, like, kids don't wanna do the work, but in reality it's u- when we're failing them because we're not leading them the right way and teaching them-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- KBKobe Bryant
... you know, how to fish. You know what I mean? And so, like, the consistency of work. Monday, get better. Tuesday, get better. Wednesday, get better, right? And you do that over a period of time, you know, not, like, one month or two months. I mean, it's three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 years, and then you, you know, you can get to where you wanna go.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I, I can't re- I think it was Bill Gates who was talking about that. He talks about how, like, we, we overestimate what we can do in one year and underestimate what we can do in 10 years.
- KBKobe Bryant
No doubt. [laughs]
- 13:44 – 15:36
Handling Winning and Making an Impact on Kids
- JSJay Shetty
What I'm intrigued by is how someone like you deals with winning because you've won again and again. And like I was saying earlier, you, you know, you won, obviously we know you, you won in basketball big as an athlete, but you've, you're winning now even in the work you're doing here as a storyteller, as a producer, right?
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
It's amazing to see so many incredible awards coming through. How have you dealt with winning? Like, when you win, what goes through your mind to help you to continue winning?
- KBKobe Bryant
Um, well, it's a little different. Like, in, in basketball it was different because, you know, I expected to win.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
You know? Like, I expected us to win championships. I expected us to win five. Quite honestly, I expected us to win eight. Um, and so when you have that vision in sports, it's a direct competition. Like, I know how hard they're working. I know how hard we're working. I know what their strategy is. I know what ours is, you know? So it's a little different. So when we win in the NBA it was like, yeah, we expected to do that, but now we, we're gonna come back and we're gonna do it again, you know? And so it's that constant, like, all right, you're churning. You win one championship, I'm back in the gym the next day working, getting ready for the next one. Now, uh, it's different because it's not about the awards. You know, you just wind up trying to create something that's, that's gonna inspire, uh, someone-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- KBKobe Bryant
... that hopefully, you know, through that inspiration they can inspire somebody else. And what I've come to learn as my career went on is that's more significant than any championship, is how do you connect with somebody that can then connect with another?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
And then with whether the awards come or not, you know, that- that's for, you know, um, you know, the Academy Award-
- JSJay Shetty
Academy [laughs] Yeah
- KBKobe Bryant
... um, um, body to decide.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
But, you know, like, for us it's just to try to create things.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Well, I guess now that's what's shifted, that now the intention isn't even expecting to win, it's expecting to change lives.
- KBKobe Bryant
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
Right? Like, your content is really about making a difference and an impact on young people's lives.
- KBKobe Bryant
Sure. Sure.
- 15:36 – 19:24
Rooting Magic in Reality and Coaching Through Questions
- JSJay Shetty
Which I, which I think is, like, the biggest way of winning because that-
- KBKobe Bryant
I think so. I mean, it's, it... You know, we're looking at 62% of young children are dropping out of sports. 62%. And they cite the fact that it's not fun anymore. Well, what is that telling them? I mean, that's telling us, us as grownups are getting in the way. Get out the way. Let these kids be imaginative, which, you know, like, in our stories it's important that, yeah, there's a fantasy nature to it, right? But it's rooted in reality, right? When we have, uh, fire-breathing winged horses and things of that nature, those are actual drills that are taking place. I mean, not, we don't have fire train- you know, fire-breathing winged horses actually performing that, but we do have ball machines-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- KBKobe Bryant
... that are spitting balls at, at tennis players, right? And so all of our, all of our stories are all anchored in an element of truth so that children feel like when they are doing these drills with these ball machines, they can envision maybe it's a fire-breathing winged horse.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, to keep them excited.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah, yeah. They can envision Gus throwing fireballs at them, you know?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
And, uh, and even the plays, like when the, you know, in, in the Wizenard series when the basket is opening up and shrinking, these are things that we experience as athletes.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
Like, some days I feel like I can't make a shot, man, and the basket feels like the size of a keyhole.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. [laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
You know? And other days it looks like-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah
- KBKobe Bryant
... a swimming pool.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
You, you know?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Wow. It went, yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
That's magic, and so we, we, we root our magic in reality so that when kids experience these things, particularly the failure side of it, they can connect it to one of our stories and say-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- KBKobe Bryant
... "Okay, I've seen this before. I know how to deal with this."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. That's beautiful, man. I love that, that analogy of, like, feeling the basket bigger or smaller.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And then being able to vision that. I can vision it right now.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
And like, yeah, you're so right. Like, some days it looks huge and I love that. That's such a great way of thinking about it, and I guess so much of this is from your real-life vision.
- KBKobe Bryant
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. This is like some days when you're playing-
- KBKobe Bryant
I, I've experienced it.
- 19:24 – 22:37
Why Tennis, Self-Negotiation, and Learning Empathy
- JSJay Shetty
what was the, what was the choice of sports about? I'm intrigued by that.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Why tennis?
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah. So like the first novel we did was, was The Wizard Series. It was important that, for that to be basketball because I wanted the first story to be one of empathy and compassion.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
And in team sports if you don't have that you can't win, right? And so it was important to tell the tale of a basketball team, uh, dealing with their own personal fears and have those fears and insecurities lead to empathy and compassion for others, right? And with the second story I wanted to look more internal individually and, and look at how do you deal with the inner challenges, the kind of the self negotiation that takes place inside of our own heads, and there was no sport better than that than tennis. There's golf, uh, but tennis you have more movement which to me symbolizes life in general because life is, there's a lot going on, right? There's the elements in tennis that you have to deal with as you deal with in golf, maybe not to the same extent, but they're still there. And then there's the confrontation with the person across the net from you.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- KBKobe Bryant
Right? As well as the strengths and weaknesses in your own movements and how you feel in your own body. And because of that it was important for this story to be a tennis story.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm. I love that. That, that makes complete sense. And give me an example of that self negotiation. I love that word and-
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... I get that. Can you expand on that a bit of like-
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... yeah
- KBKobe Bryant
Like, you know, y- y- you're, you're, you're out running on a track working out and you start talking to yourself saying, "Man, my, my knee is really sore right now. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm doing too much."
- JSJay Shetty
Sounds like me.
- KBKobe Bryant
"Maybe I need to back off," [laughs] you know?
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
"Man, my lungs are burning and my, maybe I can just slow down here. I'll do like an extra two sets tomorrow. You know, it'll be okay."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
Right? That sort of stuff.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- KBKobe Bryant
Like that stuff's dangerous.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- KBKobe Bryant
And that's when you just gotta say, "You know what? I'm not negotiating with myself."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
The deal was already made. The deal was made when I set out at the beginning of the summer and said, "This is the training plan I'm doing. I signed that contract with myself. I'm doing it."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
You know? And throughout the, that process you'll start talking to yourself like, "Man, I gotta, I think I need to, maybe if we..." Nope.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
Mm-mm. Nope. This is non-negotiable.
- 22:37 – 25:08
Highest Quality Products and How Audiences Consume Them
- JSJay Shetty
And do you, do you think this content's gonna help, all the content you're creating here at Granity, is that for you to help build better bonds between parents and kids? Like are you hoping that the podcast, for example, like kids are gonna listen to it on the way to school or on the way back or like how are you imagining people consuming the work?
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah. I, I mean, I imagine it in, in, in different ways, you know? But like ultimately people always figure out a way to do it that's comfortable for them.
- JSJay Shetty
Sure.
- KBKobe Bryant
But like, you know, which is why, um, in everything that we do we try to create the highest quality of product, right? Like, you know, people will sit down and tell me, they'll say, "Okay, well, audiobooks, very small percentage of people listen to audiobooks. We don't really have to invest too much in doing audiobooks." And, uh, what? Excuse me? No.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
Because i- what if that, that one person just listens to audiobooks?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
That one family enjoys audiobooks, they have to get the best experience-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- KBKobe Bryant
... that I could possibly give them, so that means using a London orchestra, that means doing full symphonies, that means having Phylicia Rashad read the stories. Like it means everything, the books themselves. I got this all the time, "There's no money in making books, man."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
"Nobody makes money in books." And I'm sorry, you wanna make a book with using what material?
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
You want... You know what I'm like-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
You know? I'm like, "Uh, yeah, because children matter."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- KBKobe Bryant
So like I, I don't know how they're gonna... I- I imagine how they're gonna be consuming content, um, but ultimately it's my responsibility and our responsibility as a studio to make every single thing that we put out the highest quality possible.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. No, I can imagine, I can imagine parents listening to it on the way to school.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I can imagine listening on the way back or on the way to practice-
- KBKobe Bryant
Sure, sure
- JSJay Shetty
... or things like that.
- KBKobe Bryant
Sure.
- JSJay Shetty
Like I think it's cool. I think it's-
- KBKobe Bryant
Well, The Punies for sure. Like The Punies I was like, you know, uh, you know, when I first made The Punies we were gonna release it in the summer. I think we released it in August. Um, um, and, uh, I think, I think it was August, around the same time. But in my mind I was saying, "Okay, parents are gonna listen to this every Saturday morning."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
'Cause I know I'm in the car driving my kids to soccer games and like, you know, volleyball games and stuff, so parents can listen to this with their kids in the car as they're driving to sporting events. Like that was kinda what I had in my mind. And then when it came out, it's like, you know, teachers were using it-
- 25:08 – 31:48
Creativity Through Structure, Obsession and Shooting Ideas Down
- JSJay Shetty
What currently are you studying, and what kinda gets your imagination really going right now? Like, what keeps that moving for you?
- KBKobe Bryant
Uh, you know, a cert- there's a certain element of truth in everything, you know? And, um, you know, the creativity generally comes from personal experiences first, and then you kinda look on a broad, kind of on a broader scope of, okay, how do you take something extremely personal and then channel it in a way for masses to understand or get their arms around, sort of thing. But it always starts in the element of truth, and then you start unpacking that by sitting in thought and figuring out, like, character and, you know, who is this person and, you know, who's his family. And then that's when I start getting in trouble.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
You know, because it's like the questions don't end.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
You know? So I have, like, books and books and books and books and books and books and books and books and books of backstory, because it's not good enough just to say the character's this way.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
Why are they that way?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
Well, their parents. Well, where do their parents come from? You know, where's the dad come from? Why are they raising the kid this way? And then, you know, what does it have to do with the economy that's around them? And then, and just one thing leads to the next, and then you're just writing all kinds of stuff. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
It's crazy.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. That's awesome, because I think so many of us get... You know, in our lives, we get stuck with imagination because you kinda get into that autopilot mode.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Doing the same thing every day, same routine, same drive to work.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And it's like I feel that what you're sharing is, that's easy for anyone to do. It's not like, oh, because you're Kobe Bryant you don't feel that. Everyone gets into that.
- KBKobe Bryant
Sure.
- JSJay Shetty
But you're able to find these creative outlets.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah. Well, you know, like, creativity is in everything, you know? Like, even in consistent- Like, what I've found is, is creativity a lotta time comes from structure.
- JSJay Shetty
I agree.
- KBKobe Bryant
You know what I'm saying?
- JSJay Shetty
I'm so glad you said that. Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
Like, when you have those parameters and the structure, then within that you can be creative. But, like, if you don't have the structure, you're just aimlessly doing stuff. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- KBKobe Bryant
You're just like-
- JSJay Shetty
Yes, yeah
- KBKobe Bryant
... you know? Where are you going, you know? So, like, having a clear structure of understanding, okay, this morning I'm gonna... Like, when I was writing, uh, Wizard Arts series and outlining Legacy, I come in in the morning, 7:00 AM, and I'm there. I'm writing backstory from 7:00 to 12:00, then go pick up my kids, and then I come right back and I'm writing again. So, like, within that structure, you know, my mind when I go to sleep is already, like, planning of what the next day's gonna be.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
Because I know, you know, what it is I have to do. It's that consistency and structure.
- 31:48 – 36:08
Love of Story, Reading, and Representation in Publishing
- JSJay Shetty
tell me about where that obsession comes from in general, like how you find obsessiveness and how you've applied that to story.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah. I, I, you know, obsessiveness just comes from something that you love. Like, you really love it, you'll go through fire for it, you know, you'll go through the ups and downs with it, and you'll just keep at it because you love it so much, you know? And, um, and the story for me started a long time ago. I mean, I had a great English teacher at Lower Merion High School, uh, named Jane Mastriano, and she explained to me the art of storytelling my sophomore year, and that's where I started falling in love with it and understanding story structure. Um, you know, how to develop compelling characters and how this thing, how stories, um, are the driving force, whether they're inspirational or informational, that really change society.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, we're defined by the stories we tell ourselves-
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... whether personally or, or outside in the world.
- KBKobe Bryant
Absolutely.
- JSJay Shetty
Absolutely. And, and it seems like you just mentioned that it just shows the role of teachers. And now when you find that teachers are using the work you're creating to teach-
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... that must be amazing.
- KBKobe Bryant
Comes full circle.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
You know? And, uh, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a pretty cool feeling, man. Like I, like growing up, when I was in high school, man, I didn't read much at all.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
You know? 'Cause basketball was my thing. Now, if you gave me a basketball book or, like, a sports book or, like, a sports psych book, oh, I'm devouring that.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
You know what I mean?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
'Cause it was a clear focus for me, which kinda gets me into this market a little bit too, 'cause, like, for our active children that love being outdoors and playing all the time, they're not reading.
- JSJay Shetty
No.
- KBKobe Bryant
But they're missing out on so much by not reading, but they will read if there's something that they feel like speaks to them.
- JSJay Shetty
So true.
- KBKobe Bryant
You know?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
And so now I think we get more readers-
- JSJay Shetty
Yes
- KBKobe Bryant
... in the world because of it, hopefully.
- JSJay Shetty
That's so true. No, I think so. I agree with you. Like, for me, and, and this is why everyone's different and I think there's such a need for what you're doing, because when I was growing up, I never enjoyed fiction.
- KBKobe Bryant
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And so I thought I didn't like reading because all the books that the school suggested were fiction books.
- KBKobe Bryant
Right.
- 36:08 – 39:38
Doing It Yourself: Dear Basketball Pushback and Oprah's Ownership Story
- KBKobe Bryant
When we made Dear Basketball, we got a lot of pushback from people. Like, oh, I, I, I f- I took it to some very prominent studios at first and they all said, "Yeah, no."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- KBKobe Bryant
Um, because they said basketball is too sport-specific, nobody's gonna connect with this sort of thing 'cause, you know, there's a lot of people out there who don't watch basketball. And I'm like, "Well, that's not the point." [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, that's not, yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
It's not the point. And so it was really a case study. Even with our novels, everybody was like, "Sports novels? Nobody's gonna read that. It's too, too much of a niche market, niche market." I'm like, "Sports is bigger than that, man."
- JSJay Shetty
Uh-huh.
- KBKobe Bryant
And so we made Dear Basketball to really prove a point that you don't have to watch basketball at all to connect to the journey of a dream.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- KBKobe Bryant
You know? And, uh, once we saw that connection, it was kinda, kinda validated- ... our point of view.
- JSJay Shetty
I think that's a massive point of view. And for anyone who's listening or watching right now who thinks because Kobe Bryant wants to do something, it just happens, it just shows you have to do it yourself sometimes-
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... because not everyone's gonna believe in you.
- KBKobe Bryant
Certainly not.
- JSJay Shetty
Like-
- KBKobe Bryant
Certainly not. And w- what you'll see is if, you know, once you start doing it, and now people wanna come and jump in. But I'm like, "You know, you kind of forced us to go about this ourselves, so I think we're just gonna build it from the ground up ourselves."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
But thank you. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] Yeah. Exact- they saved you.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Right? 'Cause-
- KBKobe Bryant
They're like, "Thank you."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
"Appreciate it," because if you had signed on, you know, we just-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- KBKobe Bryant
... we get kinda going with the flow, but-
- JSJay Shetty
Totally. Yeah, you can be grateful to them.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah. Appreciate it.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. No, I agree. It was the same with this podcast funny enough. When we launched, a lot of people were w- a lot of people were considering whether it was, you know, gonna, like, you know, you do social videos. Like, is it gonna work on a podcast?
- KBKobe Bryant
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
And there were a lot of people that were not sure. And then, like, we launched, and we're the biggest podcast in the world in, in, in the health category, which is, which is my world, and it was just like everyone was just like, "Oh, interesting." But I'm like, "Thank you."
- 39:38 – 43:04
Mentors, the Muse Hall, and the Rapid-Fire Round
- JSJay Shetty
How are you encouraging young people to find the right mentors, and how can they find the right mentors? Even through your work.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I guess your work is somewhat mentorship.
- KBKobe Bryant
We try, we try to be.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
You know? And, you know, I think the important thing is research. You know, in the hall here in the office, I have a hall that I call Muse Hall, where you have all the portraits of some of our muses here, from J.K. Rowling to, you know, Steve Jobs and so forth and so on. And I think it's important to research them. And it's like putting, you know, fuel in the fire every day, you know, this constant inspiration when you read about them and what they were able to accomplish, how they went about accomplishing it. You're just constantly, you know, uh, feeding that flame and, uh, and learning. And the best way to do that is to learn from the people who have done it.
- JSJay Shetty
Yes.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
That just made me so happy. I have a gallery wall in my home. If we were recording this at my place in, in Hollywood-
- KBKobe Bryant
That's awesome
- JSJay Shetty
... like, I have a gallery wall. Steve Jobs is right there.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah, yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Right? And, and, and, and, and Einstein's there.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And Martin Luther King's there, and there's a few other people. And it's, for me, it's the same thing. It's like sometimes I'm sitting there, and I'll be like, "Well, what would that person do?"
- KBKobe Bryant
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, how would they have dealt with this challenge?
- KBKobe Bryant
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
And you're so right. I think you can be mentored by people who aren't alive.
- KBKobe Bryant
100%.
- JSJay Shetty
And-
- KBKobe Bryant
Because their stories still live, which is, brings us to the importance of storytelling.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
Their stories still live. These muses are here. It's important to learn from them. And, uh, and if anything, it helps you remember that they are human just like us.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- KBKobe Bryant
These great things that get accomplished can be accomplished-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- KBKobe Bryant
... by others and beyond. You know? Building Walt Disney Company is not something that, you know, people look at and scoff at and go, "Oh, it can't be done." Well, why not? Why not?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. And the more action you take, the more you think it's possible.
- KBKobe Bryant
Yeah, because you realize they're people just like us. They made mistakes just like us.
Episode duration: 43:04
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