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LIZZO's Dramatic Body Transformation: The Spiritual & Physical Routine That Changed Everything

Lizzo has been intentionally quiet for the past two years while completely transforming her approach to relationships and self-care.

LizzoguestJay ShettyhostLizzocameo

Apr 7, 20251h 20mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

80 min read · 16,320 words

0:00 – 2:31
Intro
1. LILizzo
  It's not me anymore. Whoever Lizzo is to the world is not really even me, and that disconnect is depressing.
2. JSJay Shetty
  The Grammy goes to Lizzo. [cheering] What's making you feel like now's the right time, and what's giving you the confidence and courage to feel that way?
3. LILizzo
  I think what I learned about fame is even if that's really me, it just becomes kind of like character. It's a brand that now doesn't belong to you anymore.
4. JSJay Shetty
  Lizzo to your left.
5. LILizzo
  There was a huge scandal I was dealing with a lot. Sometimes I feel like the world just don't love me back. I had my first panic attack ever, and I had this thought, I was just like, "You wanna die? Okay, well, just die. Like, nobody will [beep] care."
6. JSJay Shetty
  I think it's also hard when the things that you stand for are the same things that you're being scrutinized for.
7. LILizzo
  So when I pop out on a red carpet or when a video suddenly goes viral and my body's different, it appears like it was overnight. The weight that is no longer on me is not just fat or physical. I released so much to get to this point. And to be honest with you, I don't feel like I've expressed myself fully in the last two years.
8. JSJay Shetty
  The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty.
9. SPSpeaker
  Jay Shetty.
10. JSJay Shetty
  The one, the only Jay Shetty. [laughs] Oh my gosh, uh, Lizzo, it is so great to have you here. I have been wanting to do this for years. We're such huge fans here, and the last time I saw you, you were performing live at Cannes, uh, Lions.
11. LILizzo
  Wow.
12. JSJay Shetty
  You were on stage for the iHeart Festival.
13. LILizzo
  Yeah.
14. JSJay Shetty
  I was out there, and I'd been told that I had two front row seats reserved so that I could hear you.
15. LILizzo
  Yeah.
16. JSJay Shetty
  Now, what happened is I came into the event, I got into a few conversations. My podcast producer, who's in the back right now, was meant to take me to this seat. She's such a big fan that she forgot to take me to this seat. So by-
17. LILizzo
  [laughs]
18. JSJay Shetty
  ... the time I wanted to make it to this seat, the whole crowd was covered. She was dancing in the front row.
19. LILizzo
  [laughs]
20. JSJay Shetty
  She claims, she claims you said to her that you were really proud of her dancing skills or shouted something out at her in a really cool way. I'll have to verify what it was, but I didn't get to be front row.
21. LILizzo
  Oh.
22. JSJay Shetty
  So I was sitting at the back, enjoying your music from the back. And so-
23. LILizzo
  Well, you're front row now, baby. [laughs]
24. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] I know. I know. How lucky am I?
25. LILizzo
  Front and center.
26. JSJay Shetty
  How lucky am I? But no, honestly, we're such big fans here, and like I said, we've been looking forward to this, and even the first few seconds we've just been-
27. LILizzo
  Yeah
28. JSJay Shetty
  ... powwowing and going back and forth. It's been awesome.
29. LILizzo
  Oh, yeah.
30. JSJay Shetty
  And so thanks.
2:31 – 7:40
Sound Bath For Healing
1. JSJay Shetty
  Well, I wanna ask you, I saw that video on your Instagram. You were standing in a sound bowl.
2. LILizzo
  [laughs]
3. JSJay Shetty
  Hitting... I have not been to that class yet. I have not seen that before.
4. LILizzo
  [laughs]
5. JSJay Shetty
  So what am I doing wrong?
6. LILizzo
  Well, you don't have my mama and my sister, 'cause that was a Christmas gift from them. I remember on Christmas Day they got me this, it was like a huge thing that they dragged in that was wrapped, and I was like, "What could y'all have possibly gotten me in this huge... " And they were like, "We're so excited." And I unwrapped it and I was like, "What? Is this like a water bowl?" Or-
7. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
8. LILizzo
  They're like, "No, you... " And I saw the footprint. There's feet, like footprint-
9. JSJay Shetty
  Wow
10. LILizzo
  ... big footprints in it. And they're like, "You stand in it." And I was like, "And then what?" And it's like, "And then you sound bath." And I was like, "This is actually wild." And, um, so I was having like a, a really emotional day. I was like, I was very close to crash out. I dragged it outside, took my shoes off, put my feet in the earth for a second, stood in it and just rang it, and I was like, "I still don't feel better." [laughs]
11. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
12. LILizzo
  I was like, "I still don't feel better." And then I hit it. I kept hitting it and I was like, "Oh, this is kinda fun." And it, yeah, changed my day.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Oh, wow.
14. LILizzo
  I pu- I brought out my other bowls and I sat and I just hummed and played 'em, and it literally changed my day, and I was, actually, I was pessimistic about it. I was like, "This is not gonna work." And it-
15. JSJay Shetty
  And that was the first time you tested it out?
16. LILizzo
  It was the first time I tested the, since Christmas-
17. JSJay Shetty
  The f- yeah
18. LILizzo
  ... I tested the big one out.
19. JSJay Shetty
  Wow.
20. LILizzo
  Yeah. I was shocked.
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, 'cause I've never seen one with footprints.
22. LILizzo
  Yeah.
23. JSJay Shetty
  Like, I've never seen one that you stand in. I've seen ones that you lie down and they play them at your head.
24. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
25. JSJay Shetty
  Or sometimes they come and put a crystal on your chest.
26. LILizzo
  Yeah.
27. JSJay Shetty
  Like, I've been in those, and I love them. We actually did one with my team. We do a team retreat every year, and we did one last year, but we did it outdoors and we had this amazing sound healer come and lead it, and when we woke up, we all could see, like, shooting stars.
28. LILizzo
  Wow.
29. JSJay Shetty
  We're like, "What is going on?" And then we realized it was Neuralink. [laughs] It was Elon Musk's like-
30. LILizzo
  Oh, that's wild
7:40 – 10:38
Understanding Astrology to Change Your Life
1. JSJay Shetty
  so fun.
2. LILizzo
  [laughs]
3. JSJay Shetty
  And Lizzo, I know you're, you're huge into astrology, right? Like, that's something that you're really passionate about. I was wondering, has, have you ever had a conversation with an astrologist that, that really changed your life?
4. LILizzo
  Oh my God.
5. JSJay Shetty
  Something they said that just shifted everything?
6. LILizzo
  Yes. Um, Chani Nicholas is my, like, astrologer, and so, like, every eclipse season, I'm texting her. I'm like, "Hey, happy eclipse season. What's happening?" [laughs] But when I... So I've, I've had, uh, knowledge of my sign ever since I was a little kid, like, so I was super into crystals and, like, "Oh, I'm a Taurus," and like, "My dad's a Libra, my mom's a Virgo," and, like, compatibility. But then as I got older, when I met Chani Nicholas, she taught me about the chart and how, like, you're more than just your sun sign and how your big three, but it's like you're more than your big three, too. You've got these, like, asteroids that go through, and you've got these, like, you've got the R- you've got everything. Your, your Venus matters. Your Mercury matters. Your... That really reframed how I think of myself because it kind of opened me up to being like, "Oh, I'm the universe." Like, I contain multitudes. Like, if I see a Taurus trait that doesn't resonate with me, is there a Gemini trait that resonates with me?
7. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
8. LILizzo
  Is there a Virgo trait that resonates with me? And I think the most impactful thing I learned from her lately is that we have, like, house years.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
10. LILizzo
  And so 2023, I was in a 12th house year, and that's the year of hidden enemies. That's the year of shadow work. And once she told me that, it, like, really unlocked for me, 'cause I was like, "Oh, that makes sense." And then she was like, "You're going into a 1st house year." So I've been in a 1st house year since April 2024, and now my birthday's coming up in April 2025, and I have taken advantage of this 1st house year because I'm a Leo rising, and my 1st house is all about self and how I present. So I was just like, "I'm gonna go in." Like, everything is routined. Everything is, like, uh, practice. I'm just, like, s- am so deep into my practice and, like, loving on myself and, and rediscovering and redefining who I am. And now when I move into my second house year, I'ma take advantage of that, too. [laughs]
11. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] What's different about the 2nd house year that you move into?
12. LILizzo
  So it's gonna be Virgo, which is my moon, and actually, it's these practices that I've been doing on a external level, how I, like, make them internal.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
14. LILizzo
  You know? How I reframe my membrane [laughs] and, and rework the, the nuts and bolts in my brain and, like, make it, like, my life. Like, right now it's a routine, but I'm gonna make it a lifestyle.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
16. LILizzo
  And I'm gonna get really cerebral with my Virgo moon, and I'm gonna get really meticulous, and I'm gonna get really in the paint, like, hardworking, 'cause that's what that Virgo is. That Virgo allows me to, like, work my ass off, and that's where I really shine, and I'm, that's where I'm really the most happy.
17. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] I love-
18. LILizzo
  Is when I'm working, honestly.
19. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. I'm a Virgo, so.
20. LILizzo
  Oh.
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, yeah. So yeah. I was like, "Oh, yeah."
22. LILizzo
  We're related a little bit.
23. JSJay Shetty
  It- y- yeah, absolutely.
24. LILizzo
  [laughs]
25. JSJay Shetty
  I, I, I love that. And,
10:38 – 15:28
Choose How to Lead Your Life
1. JSJay Shetty
  and I love how you're describing it. It sounds like you have a phenomenal astrologer.
2. LILizzo
  Mm.
3. JSJay Shetty
  Because I feel like there's such a deep way of knowing how to use it, right?
4. LILizzo
  Yes.
5. JSJay Shetty
  It's not just something that... I think for all of us who've been exposed to astrology since we were young, it was like, "Oh my God, it knows me. It's predicting. It's, it's this. It's compatibility." But it's so much more. It's like-
6. LILizzo
  Right
7. JSJay Shetty
  ... how are you using it for personal growth and self growth? Like, how do you, how do you use that as, "Okay, this is what I'm gonna focus on"?
8. LILizzo
  Well, first of all, I used to be like, "Oh, it's what I am-"
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
10. LILizzo
  ... "and that's why," but it's not like, "Oh, I, I am a Taurus," it's, "I have Taurus," which I think gives it a little bit more purposefulness, and it makes it a tool. So I'm like, how can I use my Leo rising right now? Big hair, big personality, big identity, big bold expression, color, fire. How can I use this fire right now? Because that's what I have right now. And then when I'm in Virgo, how do I use this earth? How do I use this knowledge? How do I use this, this quest for knowledge, this hardworking-ness, this steadfastedness? How do I use that? How do I use the private parts of myself and protect the private parts of myself? I think that is how astrology has been very helpful to me, because it's not just, like, what I am. I don't just, like, settle for it. I'm not like, "Oh, well, that's why, because they, they a, they a Scorpio. That's why." No. It's like, they have Scorpio, and that's what they're choosing to do with it. I have Taurus, and what I'm choosing to do with it is be ruled by Venus. I wanna be all things beauty and love. You know what I mean? With a little bit of sprinkle of hard work. [laughs]
11. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. Yeah.
12. LILizzo
  And, you know, gluttony. [laughs]
13. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
14. LILizzo
  Little gluttony. [laughs]
15. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] I love that. I, I love the way you're talking about astrology. It's, it's so refreshing because obviously you're so deep into it, and I think that's... And it sounds like that's similar to why you w- last year you said, "I'm taking a gap year. I'm gonna protect my peace."
16. LILizzo
  Yeah.
17. JSJay Shetty
  Was that part of it, to know that you're in that- ... house year, like that was giving you that sense as well?
18. LILizzo
  Man, once I learned the t- what a 12 house year is, it did kind of make sense. I, you know, 'cause I'll fight against closing up and, and, and isolating. I'll fight against it because it was like a toxic trait that I had when I was younger. Like, I would get... And mind you, I already told you, I've been crying a lot lately, so if I cry, it's not because I'm sad, I just am real sensitive lately and googly-eyed.
19. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
20. LILizzo
  But when I was younger, instead of expressing myself, I would lock up and get really quiet and shut down and just, like, hold it all in. And I went to a point where I didn't speak for, like, a whole summer and, when I was younger. I didn't talk to anyone. I didn't talk out loud. The only time I used my voice was at night, and I would sing to myself, and that was it. So I thought that that was a really toxic trait, and I have been working on expressing myself. So when you see me online, that's a form of expression for me that I've worked to get to. When I talk to the people who I work with, that's a form of expression that I worked really hard to get. When I express myself to my friends and my family and my loved ones, I've worked hard for this. So to be quiet was like, oh my gosh, I'm reverting back to a version of myself that, that I worked away from. But I think once I learned, like, hey, girl, you don't always need to be... You don't always need to talk. Sometimes you need to sit back and just be quiet and observe what's in front of you now and be present. Stop being in the future. Stop lamenting in the past. What's in front of you right now? And, like, when I said I was on a gap year, I was in the middle of it. [laughs] And I think people were like, "Oh, she's about to take a whole year off." I'm like, no, I was just in the middle of it. I just hadn't, like, expressed myself really. And to be honest with you, I don't feel like I've expressed myself fully in the last two years, like, how I want to. I feel like I've been kinda holding my tongue and, like, staying to myself, but I think that it's for the best. [laughs] 'Cause, you know, running your mouth these days, sometimes it's just unnecessary.
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
22. LILizzo
  And sometimes it can get you into some stuff you wasn't even trying to get into because people will misinterpret it and run with it.
23. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
24. LILizzo
  As I found when I was like, "I'm taking a gap year. I'm protecting my peace." But, like, people were like, "Wait, so what's that supposed to mean?" I'm like, "Oh, oops. I just, I just, I just wanted to let you guys know where I'm at right now. I'm in Bali, and I'm having a good time."
25. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
26. LILizzo
  "And I'm just, like, quiet." [laughs]
27. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] Oh, gosh.
28. LILizzo
  Oops, maybe I should have stayed quiet. [laughs]
29. JSJay Shetty
  It almost seems like you feel more comfortable now, like, being, stepping your toe back in and wanting to show more of yourself, wanting to be that way. What's making you feel like now's the right time, and what's giving you the confidence and courage to feel that way?
30. LILizzo
  What I feel like people don't know is when you are a music artist, you are either on cycle or off cycle for an album. I think nowadays there's so much fast turnaround with music, and there's, like, the deluxe of an album is kind
15:28 – 19:28
How to Protect Your Peace
1. LILizzo
  of like a industry standard that I think we've forgotten, like, what it means to be on cycle and off cycle 'cause everyone's always on. I had planned on being off cycle. That means you're not in the media, you're not doing interviews, your album cycle is done. Like, you, you're not gonna be played on the radio as much because people aren't working your records. You're not gonna be promoting anything because you're working on the next album, so you can be on cycle, and you can be back in the media and back in the press and back on tour. And I think, like, the best, most simplest answer as to why I'm back now is 'cause my album's done.
2. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
3. LILizzo
  Like, it really, this is my job. You know?
4. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
5. LILizzo
  I am a musical artist. I make studio albums. I put them out. I promote them. I tour them. And I do it because I'm really good at music, and I really wanna help people with music because I know that music has saved my life, so I know it can save someone else's life. You know what I mean? And I think that's, like, the most simple answer, but I think it's loaded this time because at the exact same time I was like, "I'm going on a vacation. I'm gonna be in Japan. I'm gonna go to Kyoto and be in the woods and, like, disappear," I also had a huge scandal come out. And I think that it looked like I was shut down or silenced or hiding, when really it was like, but it's, it's just the end of my album cycle, and this was planned. So I think this album cycle I'm gonna have to do a lot of work that I'm cool with expressing that and explaining that because I don't think people knew or know the difference between me being like, "Oh, I'm off cycle. I'm in Japan. I'm in the woods, and I'm, I'm meditating," and, "Oh, this scandal just happened. Where's Lizzo?"
6. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
7. LILizzo
  You know what I mean? So I, I'm aware of that. I'm cognizant of it, and I'm up for the challenge of explaining this to the people who care about me, 'cause they deserve to know, honestly.
8. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. I mean, it's, first of all, I think it's always an education, learning about how a business works, and I think if you're not in the business, you don't really get it. And I think that's true for any career whatsoever, especially careers in the public eye.
9. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Right? You're like, "Oh, yeah, where did that person go?" And it's like, well, the way you launch music is you need time to make music.
11. LILizzo
  Yes.
12. JSJay Shetty
  And it, and it takes so much time.
13. LILizzo
  Yes.
14. JSJay Shetty
  And, and it's very visible 'cause music's the biggest thing in the world. So you see someone for a few months, and then you don't see them again when they're working on it.
15. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
16. JSJay Shetty
  So you're saying that not only were you meditating, you were traveling, you were actually working on new music.
17. LILizzo
  Yes.
18. JSJay Shetty
  So when you said, "I was protecting my peace. I was taking a break," for the last year, you were working on music. That's what we're hearing now.
19. LILizzo
  Baby, when I, the last day of my tour was in Tokyo. I spent a whole month in Tokyo and Kyoto. It was my first time in Japan. It was my dream place. I always wanted to go since I was a little girl watching anime. I took that time. I stepped foot back into America, and I walked into the studio. I've been in the studio since October 2023, and I think I finished my last studio session for Love in Real Life last week when I mastered it. [laughs] I've been working constantly this whole time. I didn't take no time off. I couldn't. I really honestly couldn't. I took that little time in Japan that I allowed it for myself, and I got in the kitchen [laughs]
20. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
21. LILizzo
  And I rolled my sleeves up-
22. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
23. LILizzo
  ... 'cause I knew I was gonna have to do my biggest one.
24. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
25. LILizzo
  You know?
26. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. And the new music's great.
27. LILizzo
  Thank you. [laughs]
28. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, it's awesome. And, and I feel like, I mean, even when you called it Love in Real Life, I feel like how much of that was inspired by what you personally had to go through and the challenges, or how much was that was just pulling from other parts of your life? Was it disconnected or was it connected?
29. LILizzo
  Everything that I do, I pull from the strife and the grief that happens to me because the joy that I find eventually I think is the helpful part. I've never named an album before writing a song before. Like, well, 'cause
19:28 – 26:02
Getting Inspiration from Grief
1. LILizzo
  I love you, I wrote, 'cause I love you. I was like, "Okay, this, this sound like the thesis of the album. Okay, we're gonna call this album 'Cause I Love You." I wrote "Special" and I was like, "This sounds like the heart of the album. I'm gonna name this album Special." When I say I've had the name Love in Real Life since September, October 2023-
2. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
3. LILizzo
  ... and I didn't write the record Love in Real Life until maybe, like, February 2024 because I had a very specific experience, and I'd love to share it. I, I, I, I wanna talk about it as much as I can.
4. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
5. LILizzo
  And I, and I never like repeating stories because I just feel like everyone's different, and I'm like, "Let me give you something different," but this story was so life sa- like, life-changing. I, I told you, like, when I was in Japan, you know, I was doing the best I can, but you know, there was a huge scandal, I was dealing with a lot. When I touched down in Los Angeles, it didn't hit me how deeply affected I was because I had been trying to be happy for everyone else. I had had, my best friend was there with her kids, and I was trying to be happy for everybody. I was like, "And I'm in Japan, I should be happy." So I, like, I was like, "Be happy." I got in LA, I had my first panic attack ever. I was in the car coming home from the airport and I, like, I was like, "Something's wrong with my chest." And I was like, "Okay." And I've dealt with anxiety for years, but this felt different. And I was like, "Okay, something going on with my chest." And I was like, "Okay, do, do your anxiety protocol." And anxiety protocol wasn't working, like breathing and the [inhales] circular breath. And I was like, "No, something is pressing on my chest." And I had this thought, I was just like, "Everybody hates me. I, everybody hates me for something that isn't true, but at the end of the day, because of the position I'm in, everybody hates me, and there's nothing you can do about it." And I was like, "Okay." I got into the house. I could barely walk, and I, like, collapsed by my bed and was like, "Oh, shit." I couldn't breathe, and I was like [gasps] and I was by the bed and I couldn't breathe, and something was pressing on my chest. And from then on, I had been in a state of depression because I didn't know how to fix it. I was so... And I'm not trying to make nobody feel bad for me, but man, woo, baby, I was dark, and I was scared of people. I was like, I was like, "You can't trust anyone. You, you can't love anyone. I don't wanna talk to nobody." You know, because there was, like, a lot going on where, like, people were getting weird phone calls from people, and there was, like, weird, like, stuff going on that I had never experienced before 'cause I was like, "This, this is wild. This is a whole 'nother level of what I've, my job that I've never experienced." And so I was scared. And I was like, "I'm gonna go to this concert," because I really wanted to go to the concert, and I was, like, terrified to go. I was like, "I know I'm gonna walk out and somebody's gonna look at me and be like..." And you know, I was just like, "And there's nothing you can do about it." But I went anyway. And man, when I say it was the opposite [laughs]
6. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
7. LILizzo
  I walked out, and I just seen so many people look at me, and they were like [gasps] "Lizzo." They were like, "Oh my God." They were like, "Come here, I love you, I love you," and it was just people in the crowd. And I was hugging them, and they was hugging me. And I'm telling you, like, people were, they were like, "Yes, yes!" They were just like... It w- felt like me cheering me on, being like, "You did it. You know, you got over your fear. You got outside. Y- you can trust people again. You can love people. People do love you. You're okay. And you know what? There's something you can do about it, and you did it. You stepped outside." And I was like, "This is the o- this is the only thing that's real." You can't get this kinda love on the internet. You can't. You absolutely can't, and I thought I could for years, years, because I built my platform on the validation of sharing myself and being myself with the internet and being embraced and being shown love, and I was like, "This is love." No, love is in real life. And I felt it from not e- there we- and I won't even say they're fans of my music, just people. Oh, it was the most life-saving thing. And I was like, "I have to name my album Love in Real Life," because I know I'm not the only person. I know I'm not the only person who sits on their phone and creates a version of themself or is told by the world who they are and starts to believe it, even if it's not really who you are. You're like, [sighs] "Maybe I am not good enough. Maybe I d- maybe I'm not pretty. Maybe I'm not cool. Maybe..." And it's like, no, this is a lie. [laughs] This may be a reflection of some things, and some real things do happen on here. And I love the internet. [laughs] I'm a child of the internet. Like, I gets down with social media, but I also know that if your, if your only sense of self- And your only form of validation is coming from social media or coming from your phone or coming from a text back or coming from a dating app. It's not gonna fill you up like being in the real world and building community with people-
8. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
9. LILizzo
  ... and getting over your fear of it because it is scary.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
11. LILizzo
  And so I've held that title and I was like, I wrote like four Love in Real Lifes [laughs] until I finally settled on the, the party stadium version.
12. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
13. LILizzo
  I said, "Why is this one so lit?"
14. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
15. LILizzo
  Like, I wrote these deep emotional ones, and then I wrote this one and was like, "Well, that's Lizzo."
16. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
17. LILizzo
  And I think that was when I dec- when I dec- realized, oh, this is who I am.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
19. LILizzo
  I go through this really, really tough shit, man, and it's fine because I have learned to use my alchemy and turn it into gold and turn it into meaningfulness and, like, acts of rebellious joy that people can use in the world, and I'm cool with it.
20. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
21. LILizzo
  That's my mission.
22. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, I love that.
23. LILizzo
  [laughs]
24. JSJay Shetty
  One of... [laughs] I love that. One of the things that I think you talked about there which is so powerful is you go through something really difficult. On the other side of it, there's this love in real life.
25. LILizzo
  Yeah.
26. JSJay Shetty
  But in between, there's the depression, the darkness, the, the isolation, the worry, the fear, and we all go through that. We all experience at some point in our life where we're almost feeling like we have to hide. We feel, like you said, I don't know who to trust, who to love. Will people accept me? How did you go through that? Like, what was that timeline
26:02 – 35:05
Set Boundaries to Protect Yourself
1. JSJay Shetty
  like? Like, what did it look like when you woke up? What did, what did you do that helped? What did you... Who supported you? How, how did it look?
2. LILizzo
  Man.
3. JSJay Shetty
  'Cause that's hard.
4. LILizzo
  I inadvertently set a lot of boundaries at that time, and it was more like defenses because I was so afraid of people that even the people that I was close to, I just, I set up these boundaries and I, and I disappeared into myself. I, I'm not even gonna sit up here and, and lie and be like, "I handled it perfectly." I didn't. [sighs] I didn't. It was very messy, and I was hurt by people that I loved, and I hurt people that I loved at the time. This is, and I'm talking about the depression period. I'm not talking about me as a boss. I'm not talking about work. No, I'm talking about October 2023 to now. And I fought really, really hard for myself, and sometimes when you fight, it get real messy. [laughs] I was scrapping. I was fighting for my life. [laughs] There was times when it was like, "You wanna die? Okay, well, just die. Like, nobody will care." And I was like, "Oh, I'm talking to myself like that? When the did this happen?" [laughs] I'm like, "Love yourself." I'm like, "Stay positive." I'm like, "No, you have to live. You have to live for your mommy. You have to live for the..." And it was like, "No, bitch, you wanna die? Die. Like, this is the time to do it because no- everyone will hate you and nobody cares." And I think that defensiveness isolated me really bad, but there's something about isolation that turns into solitude, that turns into introspection, that turns into I am sitting alone with myself and I can finally see her. I was covered up by so much that I couldn't see myself. I was, I was blinded by, you know, all these people in my space telling me who I am. I was blinded by my career, standing on stage and 20,000 people saying, "I love you. You're amazing." I'm like, "Okay, thank you. Like, I gotta push through," and she, I, I was n- I was never alone. I was never alone. Even when I was at home, I'd be like, "You wanna come over? Let me, let me throw a, let me throw something. Let me throw a pool party. Let me, let me have people come over and drink wine." Like, maybe it was a fear of being alone with myself. Maybe it was a lack of self-awareness. But in that isolation where I think my defensiveness had pushed off and pushed away the people I love the most, I, I pushed them all away. I got to, like, sit with this person, and I saw the things that other people saw sometimes that aren't the coolest or the nicest or that I'm the most proud of. I'm like, "You are, you're moody. You're uncomfortable. You forgot who you are. You forgot why you're here." And I think that during that time I embraced that part of myself. It's like, okay, you're moody, be in a mood, but what do you need to do to make yourself feel better in that mood, and what can you do to protect yourself in that mood and protect others? S- sit by yourself, bitch. Read a book. Learn how to finally consistently meditate. Exercise. Get some fresh air. Get in the sun. And it was like I forced myself to do that shit. That shit is not easy.
5. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
6. LILizzo
  I don't, I didn't wanna exercise at first. Hell nah. But I got one, got that cardio machine, and I w- I was like, I never regret moving my body. I never regret it. I started, it's an anxiety technique. It's like you focus on, on your senses.
7. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
8. LILizzo
  Like, what can I smell? What can I taste? What can I see? What can I feel? And I started doing that, not intentionally. I'm not a genius when it comes [laughs] to this shit. I just started doing it, and I was like, "What are you eating? What are you putting in your body? You're putting things in your body that's making you sick. You know, w- what are you doing on a daily basis? You're, you're, you're bed rotting, and that's fine sometimes. But also, when you're always doing it, your body doesn't move. You know, what are you looking at? What are you watching on TV?" I had to throw my phone away. I'm about to throw my phone away.
9. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
10. LILizzo
  I'm like, oh, God, my... Erase itself.
11. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
12. LILizzo
  I threw my phone away. I did not look at it. I told my team, I said, "Anything I need to post or anything I wanna post, you post it for me. I don't wanna look at that shit no more." And that was hard, too, because I love the internet. But it's doing a lot of things that are hard [sighs] to finally be like, "This is who I am, and I need to become th- I need to love her, and I need to, to make her the best version of myself."
13. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
14. LILizzo
  Because guess what? Even after all this shit, even after looking at this aspect of myself that I was like, "Wow, that's not my favorite part of myself," you know, after all the things I've been through, all the relationships that have come and gone in my life, I still deserve it. I really do.
15. JSJay Shetty
  And it's all I have.
16. LILizzo
  And it's all I mother [censored] got. [laughs] Sorry for cussing.
17. JSJay Shetty
  No.
18. LILizzo
  It's all I got.
19. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
20. LILizzo
  'Cause what, you're gonna sit up and you're gonna beat yourself up for the rest of your life about anything that could have happened or any misunderstanding or any... You know what I'm saying? N- well, you're gonna have a miserable life. Do you want a miserable life? I sat and had to ask myself that. I'm like, "Do you wanna be miserable? Do you wanna feel bad? Or do you wanna get back to doing what you do?"
21. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
22. LILizzo
  And I was like, "Damn, man, I gotta do what I do." [laughs]
23. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
24. LILizzo
  I got to.
25. JSJay Shetty
  You've probably been hearing about AI everywhere, and we all need to be mindful of the tools we trust in this new chapter of technology. Claude is the if you know, you know AI assistant that just feels different. While other AIs often sound like robots, Claude has been created with special research that informs its character. Meaning, that Claude just gets it when it comes to empathy and emotional intelligence. That's why millions of people are turning to Claude for parenting tips, dating advice, mindful habits like journaling, budgeting, and so much more. Claude has been thoughtfully crafted by Anthropic and its team of researchers, whose mission is to design the most capable and secure systems that place people at the center. You can try Claude for free today at claude.com. That's C-L-A-U-D-E dot com. Whatever we've been through, everyone's been through a feeling like that where they've just gone, "Yeah, I just... I don't think I can do it anymore. I don't, I don't think I can do it again." And, and one thing you said there, and I know we were talking about Steve Jobs earlier. Steve Jobs always talked about how there's such a need to disconnect from the outer noise to hear your inner voice.
26. LILizzo
  Mm.
27. JSJay Shetty
  And so you can't really hear your inner voice unless the outer noise, and when you're talking about throwing your phone away-
28. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm
29. JSJay Shetty
  ... and disconnecting. And sometimes when we're pushing away the outer noise, we might not do it in the most graceful way-
30. LILizzo
  Yeah
35:05 – 39:24
Do You Believe in Love?
1. LILizzo
  I'm not cool mentality that, like, never goes away because those are such formative years. So please be nice to people in high school. [laughs]
2. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
3. LILizzo
  'Cause it really shapes your whole life.
4. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
5. LILizzo
  Um, it made me cool. It made me a diamond. But, um, I, I still struggle with believing-
6. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
7. LILizzo
  ... love and believing I am worthy of love and believing that I am loved.
8. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
9. LILizzo
  I think that those are motifs that are definitely still difficult for me, and I can throw little tantrums about, but I need t- but that's on me. I need to sit back, like, honestly, putting it all out here, I'll be on the internet sometimes talking noise, and it's, and it's my insecurities, and I own that. I wanna be more careful with that because of the position that I'm in now. You know, the responsibility I have now and the state of the internet now, I can't just be projecting my insecurities on the internet. I think there is a more responsible way to do it, to where people understand me more, and that people know where I'm coming from, and I can make it more of a personal thing instead of these blanket statements and... 'Cause it sounds like it's coming from a place of anger, but it's really not. But it's just coming from these insecure moments that I have sometimes where I feel like, man, I feel, like, misunderstood, and I feel like people don't get me, and I feel like people don't see me. And I'm like, "How do I express myself in a way where you get me and you feel me and you see me, and like, I, I, I want you to know?" And I'm working on it. And-
10. JSJay Shetty
  So before you would say it, and now you're reflecting
11. LILizzo
  Um, yes. Before I would say, when I say before, I mean, like a couple weeks ago. [laughs]
12. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
13. LILizzo
  I'm still, I'm... Man, I'm human, man. I am. I'm really-
14. JSJay Shetty
  It's hard
15. LILizzo
  ... in this thing, human flesh and blood. It's so wild, but, like, I think that I'm also human enough to admit where I could be better.
16. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
17. LILizzo
  And those are the places where I could be better. I was in that giant sound bowl banging that thing because it kept me from going on Twitch. It kept me from going on BlueSky or going on, you know what I'm saying, TikTok and just [growls] because that's not the place for it anymore. I think there's enough going on in the world. There's enough to be outraged about. There's enough pain circulating on the internet. I don't need to share my pain.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
19. LILizzo
  I need to share my joy. I need to share my love. I'm a very blessed person. I get to make music for a living. I have people who love me. I have people who've never met me who love me because of the music that I make. And I get to travel all over the world and connect with those people and touch those people. I can support my family financially. As a fat Black woman who was born in Detroit and raised in Houston, Texas, the odds were stacked against me, and I beat the odds, and I'm here, and I'm surviving and thriving in this world. I am grateful, and I think that my position is to always show that gratitude. I, I wanna live in a constant state of gratitude, and I wanna, and I wanna emit that, you know? And I wanna just really show the world love at all times. They don't need, they don't need no more darkness. There's enough darkness in the world. It don't need to come from somebody like me. If I get insecure sometimes, call your mama. [laughs]
20. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
21. LILizzo
  Call your mama.
22. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
23. LILizzo
  You know what I'm saying? Like, girl.
24. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
25. LILizzo
  So that, that's where I'm growing as a person.
26. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
27. LILizzo
  And I'm, and I'm proud of the person I'm becoming.
28. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. Well, Lizzo, I was gonna say, I think it's your music, but it's also 'cause you mean something to people. You know? Like, you, you, you dance... Like, when I think about my wife and what I was sharing with you earlier, it's 'cause you mean something to her. When I was talking about Helene and my producer, it's 'cause you mean something to her.
29. LILizzo
  Yeah.
30. JSJay Shetty
  Like, I think you mean something to people.
39:24 – 43:14
Continue to Be Yourself
1. LILizzo
  that you got. That was really me, and that is really me. The, um, issues that I spoke about, I really f- care about. The issues I stood up for, I really f- wanna see change in. I- it really matters to me. The platforms that I give people, that's real. All of that is real, and I think what I learned about fame is even if that's really me, it just becomes kind of like a s- a fictional story that you... It's a character. It's a brand. It's a thing that now doesn't belong to you anymore. And when it got changed, that was what really f- up my sense of self 'cause I was like, "Well, now the person that, you know, the world is saying I am, that's not even me."
2. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
3. LILizzo
  And that's shadow work. I was like, "That's like some shadow self that was created out of me not being precautious and careful in protecting myself." But I think that it really depresses me to feel like it's not me anymore. Whoever Lizzo is to the world is not really even me, and that disconnect is, is f- depressing. And I think the only remedy to that is continuing to be myself. That's the on- It's time. I just have to continue to be me, and people will see me for who I am. But I think for a long time, I was really depressed about, like, oh, damn, like, now there's this, like, fake character now. There's, like, this, like... And, and, and, you know, I can't blame or judge people for believing it, for believing that's who I am. I can't because I would be in the same position, [laughs] you know? So I take the fact that I mean something to people very seriously. I take it to heart, and it's why I have moved the way that I have moved my entire career, and it's why I, when I, when, when things happened, I would speak on it. I would take accountability. It's why I did those things because I know that, and I think when it was out of my control and someone else could tell a story about me that wasn't true and people believed it, it crushed me because I know that I mean something to people. And it's why I'm careful to this day. I'm never gonna stop being care- If anything, I'm more careful now. [laughs]
4. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
5. LILizzo
  I can't just let any author into my life who can make me a villain. I can't do that anymore 'cause I'm the author, and I'm taking back my narrative by continuing to tell my story from me, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to do that.
6. JSJay Shetty
  No, of course. I, I, I, I think, I think everyone deserves that. You know, everyone needs that, and I, I think it's also hard when the things that you stand for are the same things that you're being scrutinized for, right?
7. LILizzo
  Yes.
8. JSJay Shetty
  It's like that's, that's what's so hard about it. It's like when you stand for inclusivity and empowerment, being questioned for those same things is, is, like, so painful and it kind of, like, dismantles your whole identity, even for yourself.
9. LILizzo
  Yeah.
10. JSJay Shetty
  So I can imagine that's really hard, and that's why I think everyone needs an opportunity and a platform to be able to do that.
11. LILizzo
  But it feels like, strangely, like- [sighs] It's this thing now where it's like, okay, if I stand up for inclusivity, it's invalidated.
12. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
13. LILizzo
  Or if I stand up for Black women, it's invalidated. If I stand up for body positivity and fatness and, and stand i- up against fatphobia, it's invalidated because of-
14. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
15. LILizzo
  ... that. And I was like, wow, that's convenient. [laughs] Like, these are things I truly believe in. I'm not about to just pick up some new causes-
16. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
17. LILizzo
  ... because it's the thing to do. I was a political and
43:14 – 46:39
Stand Up for Your Cause
1. LILizzo
  very vocal activist, artist before it was the trend, before teams were telling artists to speak up. Like, I was just doing it because I wanted to. It's an uncomfortable position to be in right now because I also know I have a responsibility to, like I said, only bring love, and I think me speaking on certain things or even if I feel like I'm advocating for something, it's kind of creating more hate and, and, and chaos than what I intended. So it's just like sometimes you just gotta shut the [censored] up. [laughs]
2. JSJay Shetty
  Mm. Yeah, and that's hard, and that's hard too because you really care about it, right?
3. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
4. JSJay Shetty
  Like, I think that's the challenge. It's like you keep doing something because you really care about it. That's why you started in the first place. But then sometimes you're like, "Well, maybe it'd be smarter for me-
5. LILizzo
  Yeah
6. JSJay Shetty
  ... to not comment on it-
7. LILizzo
  Yeah
8. JSJay Shetty
  ... because it's safer."
9. LILizzo
  And not just safer for me, but, like, safer for the public.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
11. LILizzo
  You know, I don't wanna create divisiveness. I really don't. There's enough discourse. There's enough division, and I think that, like, me doing something that I thought was, like, you know, for a good cause or, like, from the goodness of my heart, if it's taken and creates negative discourse where people are going back and forth, I won't say nothing.
12. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
13. LILizzo
  I won't say nothing at all. Don't, don't worry about me. You don't got to worry about me at all. [laughs]
14. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
15. LILizzo
  Don't you worry, honey. [laughs]
16. JSJay Shetty
  And before, you would have, that wouldn't have been your reaction, right, before?
17. LILizzo
  No, because I feel like there was no opposition.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
19. LILizzo
  I feel like when I spoke up, the only opposition was the opposition to the cause. I think now when I speak up on a, for something, there's opposition to me. It's like, ugh, bad messenger. Good, right message, bad messenger. And I'm like, oh, you know what? Valid. Absolutely valid. As a, as a famous person or a celebrity right now, this is what I signed up for. And I, and I'm like, so I'm not, I'm not complaining. I can't complain. I'm do it. Like, the, I'ma, I'ma just be quiet because I understand that it's creating more confusion than solution.
20. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
21. LILizzo
  And I only want-
22. JSJay Shetty
  I like that
23. LILizzo
  ... I'm a solutionary. I'm a solutionary.
24. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
25. LILizzo
  I like to bring solutions. I like to only speak up if I know it's gonna help in some way. And if it ain't helping, zip it. [laughs]
26. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
27. LILizzo
  Zip it. [laughs]
28. JSJay Shetty
  I like that, solutionary.
29. LILizzo
  Yeah.
30. JSJay Shetty
  Solutions, not confusion. That is definitely, I, I like that. And that's a great way for all of us to think about stuff-
46:39 – 50:18
Stop Forcing Relationships to Happen
1. LILizzo
  of, like, broken people who have been, have done harmful things, but I always see the potential. I always see the good, and it's like, it's like that inner child in me that's like, "Oh, my gosh, I can help them. Like, but they are good." And I think that, um, when they would do harmful things to me, I had a sense of forgiveness and understanding, and I would be like, "I know that's not you." And so I would chase and pursue that relationship, and, and I'm not talking about romance. I'm talking about people I worked with. I'm talking about friends who were also people I worked with. I was like, I was hiring my best friends, [laughs] you know? And I would kind of see past it, and meanwhile, I was allowing something potentially nefarious or not good for me into my space, right? So I realize, and I think people all over the world, if [laughs] when you put up a boundary that protects yourself and you stop chasing the people who continually hurt you, you'll find that pretty soon they'll be gone. [laughs] And you'll be like, "Wait a minute, I was keeping this afloat the whole time? It was me?" And so when I isolated, a lot of people just-
2. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
3. LILizzo
  ... sailed away. And I opened my eyes and was like, "Who's left?" And the people that are left are, you know, my best friend, who I've known since like fourth grade. [laughs] Do you know what I'm saying?
4. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
5. LILizzo
  And I love her, and I cherish her. Um, my boyfriend, you know? And I'm just like, wow, this is cool. [laughs]
6. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
7. LILizzo
  I don't need to pursue anything or anyone anymore. I'm full, and I think that comes from that isolation, and I think it comes from appreciating the people that you have. And from like a business perspective-
8. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
9. LILizzo
  ... when you're friends with somebody and you hire them, it's just like it gets, the, the power dynamic [censored] up the relationship It's up the social structure of the relationship, and it's something that, you know, I wanted to do when I was younger. I was like, "Yeah, it puts money in my friends' pockets. Like, let's go. Let's turn up. Let's see the world. Let's..." And it was, you know, something I, I loved, but then I also realized it's not fair to them to be their boss and their friend. And that will help keep things just clean.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
11. LILizzo
  I just want, and like I said, simple solutions.
12. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
13. LILizzo
  I don't want no more confusion ever again. I want my friends to be my friends, and I want my employees to be my employees.
14. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. This is, this is so real, and I appreciate how, like, real you're being about it and how direct it is because I do think that it's, A, it's glorified to be like, "We should be like a family, and everything should be really close," and I think that's, like, idealized. It's glorified. Like, that's what people talk about. And I think recently, a lot of people have been talking about how teams should not actually operate as families. They should operate as teams. Like teams, like a sports team.
15. LILizzo
  Yes.
16. JSJay Shetty
  There's a coach. There's players. The way they operate is like there's camaraderie, there's collaboration, but there's an energy of like, "No, we're playing here to win."
17. LILizzo
  Yeah.
18. JSJay Shetty
  That's the goal of a team, is to win.
19. LILizzo
  Yeah.
20. JSJay Shetty
  The goal of a family is not to win. The goal of a family is to, to just be safe.
21. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
22. JSJay Shetty
  And wait a minute, but we're at work to win and do stuff. We have results and targets.
23. LILizzo
  Yeah.
24. JSJay Shetty
  Families don't have targets.
25. LILizzo
  Right.
26. JSJay Shetty
  Families don't have results. Families don't have goals.
27. LILizzo
  Yeah.
28. JSJay Shetty
  The goal of a family is just to stay together.
29. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
30. JSJay Shetty
  And you can see how it plays on our minds, and I've had that, too. Like,
50:18 – 56:36
Know Your Role, Stay in Your Lane
1. JSJay Shetty
  I used to think that teams should be family, too, and there's a family energy. And I'm like, that's great, but it's like there's just a different value system-
2. LILizzo
  Yeah
3. JSJay Shetty
  ... to a team and a family. And, and I think there's so much to be said for this that you only learn by going through it.
4. LILizzo
  Yeah.
5. JSJay Shetty
  You don't know this when you start. Like, I think about how much I've had to learn moving into this space for myself doing this for the last 10 years. It's like-
6. LILizzo
  Yeah
7. JSJay Shetty
  ... I didn't know. I've never built a team before, and-
8. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm
9. JSJay Shetty
  ... just 'cause I'm good at one thing doesn't mean I know everything about everything.
10. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
11. JSJay Shetty
  And I think there's a lot of pressure on artists, creators, musicians to know about everything-
12. LILizzo
  Yeah
13. JSJay Shetty
  ... when your talent is kind of, like, here, right?
14. LILizzo
  Yes.
15. JSJay Shetty
  It's like your talent is music and creation-
16. LILizzo
  Yeah. [laughs]
17. JSJay Shetty
  ... artistry and storytelling.
18. LILizzo
  And so you make everything music and creation-
19. JSJay Shetty
  Yes
20. LILizzo
  ... and artistry, and you're like, "Oh, this should be a creative space, and this should be lax." And everyone's like, "No, man, this is a well-oiled machine."
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
22. LILizzo
  If Lizzo is the brand, then it's a company, you know what I mean? It's like everybody has their, their s- their role, and it's just like know your role and stay in your lane.
23. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
24. LILizzo
  That's something that I've learned. It's, I don't know. It's... I'm not out of it, man. I'm, I'm still-
25. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, of course
26. LILizzo
  ... learning what's coming next, but I'm so grateful to God because this experience, and I'm t- and I'm not just talking about, like, the scandal. I'm talking about the last, like, two years of my life, the last, like, [sighs] all of this. It has prepared me for, I think, something so incredible that I needed to be ready for, that I needed to be this way for. You know what I mean? Because I was holding on to a lot of toxicity. I really was because that's just the kind, like, and I'm not even talking about toxicity within myself. I mean, like, toxic systems and structures and, and people. I held onto them because I was just like, I'm a Taurus. You know, I'm, I'm-
27. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
28. LILizzo
  ... very loyal. I'm just like, "Till the wheels fall off." And it's like, man, let go and flow. And I think that I, I had to learn that, like, God had tried to show me this so many ways. [laughs] It was like, knocked me over the head. I was like, "Yeah, but that person was just mean." Knocked me over the head. "Yeah, but that was just a misunderstanding." Knocked me over the head. It was like, "Yeah. Wake up."
29. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
30. LILizzo
  Wake up. Let go.
56:36 – 58:40
Advice for Aspiring Artist
1. LILizzo
  wild, and so you're always kind of like, when, when you sit down and cast your net to create, whether it's painting, whether it's writing, whether it's music, whatever, dance, you cast that line, and whatever that fish is, you catch that fish, you pull it out, and that's it. You gotta pull the fish out. You can't be like, "Well, I caught the fish, but I can't say that," or, "I caught the fish, but, uh, I don't like this genre of music. I can't make a, a, a, a classical twerk song." Yes, you can. Make the classical twerk song, pull the fish out, and go fishing again. Cast your line again. You know what I'm saying?
2. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
3. LILizzo
  It, what do they say? It's, it's full of fi- plenty fish in the sea. [laughs]
4. JSJay Shetty
  Plenty fish in the sea. [laughs] Yeah. I love what you said about how creativity's a stream, and that's why the word stream is actually so beautiful because you're right that we're all pulling from the universe of-
5. LILizzo
  Yeah
6. JSJay Shetty
  ... moments of creativity and mixed with our experience. It's almost like one layer is the stream of creativity in the universe, and the other is the experience of real life, of what we're going through.
7. LILizzo
  Yeah.
8. JSJay Shetty
  And great art is made when those two things are moving in parallel-
9. LILizzo
  Yeah
10. JSJay Shetty
  ... and you're able to, like, connect the dots between the two.
11. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
12. JSJay Shetty
  And, and it seems like that's what you've been trying to stream and channel and-
13. LILizzo
  Yeah
14. JSJay Shetty
  ... and put it together. What, how has your view on love changed through this process? Like, when you look at the word love now.
15. LILizzo
  I'm such a better lover now. I worked really hard, and I can't remember, it was, like, 2017. I was really deep in it, and I had, like, candles, and I was reading books, and I was trying to understand what it means to be an unconditional lover because love with conditions hurt really bad, really bad. And I was like, "Please, I wanna learn how to be an unconditional lover." And, um, once I had all the crystals and all the candles and all the prayer and all the reading, I, and I was like, "I get it. I get unconditional love." I realized that, like, actually, as a human being, I'm incapable of [laughs] unconditional love. We are.
58:40 – 1:02:40
How to Become an Unconditional Lover
1. LILizzo
  I think on a spirit level, vibrationally, we are unconditional love, and I think that is why it's hard to try to be an unconditional lover 'cause it's not something that you can actively do. You just are.
2. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
3. LILizzo
  But when you tap back into your flesh, that's when the conditions come right back in.
4. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
5. LILizzo
  And I found that when I choose to love in flow, that is the most unconditional part. When I love on a material level, that's when the conditions start to come in, and it gets painful, and it gets petty, and it gets weird. But every time I forget, because we're going to forget, we are human beings, we step back into the flesh every morning when we wake up, I have to go back to the flow.
6. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
7. LILizzo
  And I remind myself, I'm like, "Well, how would you feel if they did that to you?" You know? "How would you f- what, what would you think?" And I go, "Oh," and I empathize, and I understand, and it's so much easier for me now to accept 'cause I think love is acceptance. You know what I mean? Like, I l- like, my, one of my favorite phrases to tell myself and others is just, like, "I love and accept you for who you are."
8. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
9. LILizzo
  "I love and accept you for who you are." And sometimes when people piss me off, I go, "I love and accept them for who they are."
10. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
11. LILizzo
  "I love and accept them." [laughs]
12. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
13. LILizzo
  I have to remind myself that I do. On a, on a very soul level, on a vibrational level, I love them and accept them for who they are.
14. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
15. LILizzo
  Once I get into the material of it, "Ah, you [censored] up my day," or, "Why would you say that to me?" Or, "Why, why would you do this to me?" It starts to get real conditional and painful and pain body and hateful and drama and mess. I don't want no drama, and I don't want no mess. I really don't anymore. And honestly, I was addicted to it for a long time.
16. JSJay Shetty
  Mm. Interesting.
17. LILizzo
  Oh my God, I love reality TV. I loved hearing gossip about other... I would be like, "Oh my God, so what's the tea? What happened? What happened? Oh my God." Like, I was very spunky. You know what I mean? And I realized, "Oh, that's like a..." You know, I, I see something online, I'm like, "Ooh." I go down the rabbit hole. I'm like, "But what happened? I wanna know the drama." [laughs] And it's like, girl, that is lowering your vibration, and, like, I hate to even say lowering vibration 'cause people gonna think it's woo woo. It's like I'm literally lowering my s- waking state by doing that. You're lowering yourself, and then you start to attract drama. Oh my God, when you inj- when you, you are what you eat. When you eat drama, you attract mother [censored] drama
18. JSJay Shetty
  Mm. So well said.
19. LILizzo
  I was so addicted to it, and I think, like, now I'm a better lover. And what I understand about love is love is, like, there's no drama. It's like calm water.
20. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
21. LILizzo
  It's like peaceful water because love is a flow state.
22. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
23. LILizzo
  You're at your best when you're... You love at your best when you're just flowing. Don't try to understand it, don't try to m-m-make it make sense, and don't try to, like, find problems with it. Just, like, love them.
24. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
25. LILizzo
  You know? And, and-
26. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
27. LILizzo
  ... be loved.
28. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, I love that flesh to flow. That's really good. Uh, because it's, it's, it's so good. I, I, I love what you're saying because I, I think about this often, where we're like, we're all like, "Be kinder to everyone", and then the next thing you need is someone's comment section which is like, "Why does her voice sound like that?"
29. LILizzo
  [laughs]
30. JSJay Shetty
  "What's up with her hair today?" Like, "What's up with his..." You know, and I'm like, wait a minute, didn't we all just say we needed to be kinder to us?
1:02:40 – 1:05:51
The Power of Self Love
1. JSJay Shetty
  you're like, "Can you believe it? They're spreading rumors about me." And it's so interesting, right? It's like it's... And I think about it all the time, 'cause as soon as you think you're free of it, if you're like, "Oh, no, I n- I never gossip about anyone or whatever," you just gotta take a beat and take a look at-
2. LILizzo
  Yeah
3. JSJay Shetty
  ... how you spoke about someone yesterday.
4. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
5. JSJay Shetty
  And so we're const- like you said, we're all human. We're constantly trying to propagate and preach the right thing to do.
6. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
7. JSJay Shetty
  But we're all struggling in reality with actually doing it when it's hard.
8. LILizzo
  We are as kind to others as we are to ourselves.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
10. LILizzo
  I'm learning that.
11. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
12. LILizzo
  I'm learning the people who say the meanest things to me and about me are going through it.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
14. LILizzo
  They struggling too. How you gonna be, how you gonna be nice to me and say something nice about me when you talk down about yourself? And, and I don't even mean, like, people who have low self-esteem. I'm talking, like, "Oh, stupid, why did I do that? I'm so stupid." Or like, "Ugh, I look bad," like, "I don't like how I look." Like, "Ugh, I hate myself." Like, it's little things like that that you say over and over and over and over, and your body's like, "Bet." You know? And that's why I'm so... I, I... Man, I'm telling you, self-love can save the world because you h- it's, it, 'cause it starts with you. Self-love can, could make this world a better loving place 'cause when you're ki- you notice the people who are kind to themselves and, and love themselves, they're, they just g- You're like, "Ooh-
15. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
16. LILizzo
  ... I like being around you. You're so kind."
17. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
18. LILizzo
  "You're so nice." Like, "You're so... Why you so nice to me?" It's like, "'Cause I, 'cause I'm nice to me."
19. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20. LILizzo
  You know what I mean?
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, that's real.
22. LILizzo
  But when I'm hard on myself, and when I'm striving for perfection, and when I'm beating myself up, and when I'm doing the most, I can't control-
23. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
24. LILizzo
  ... how I treat other people or how I look at other people or what I think about other people. When I was in the, when I'm in the trenches, the trenches, I'm, I'm, the trenches are surrounding me.
25. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
26. LILizzo
  Now that I'm kinder to myself, and that doesn't even mean, like, ooh, I put on lotion every day and self-care. I mean, like, man, like, the way I look at the world, the way I view the world, the way I view myself through the lens of the world is kinder. You know what I'm saying?
27. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.
28. LILizzo
  And I think if everyone, if everyone was a little kinder to themselves, I think we'd have less and less of the negativity in the world.
29. JSJay Shetty
  I agree. I, I, I think that's a beautiful way to put it. It's that projection of our own insecurity and pain, and the conversation that's happening in our mind is, is going outward as well, and I feel like it's harder, like we were talking about earlier, when you mean something to people because I feel like when you then change, people feel like they're losing a friend.
30. LILizzo
  Mm.
1:05:51 – 1:11:03
Be Real About Your Journey
1. LILizzo
  grew out of that." It's like it's not really you grew out of it, you just grew apart from it.
2. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
3. LILizzo
  It's just... And that's fine. But I would say on, like, a, my public relationship, I'm, I'm very careful about what's happening with me right now. Like, I have been on an intentional weight release journey, and I put it on the internet. I, I posted about it, like, maybe a year and a half ago, and I was, like, very clear that this time it's intentional. I've always been very, like, work athletic online. I work out. You know, I'm always, like, you know, eating and showing how I eat and, like, always trying to, like, eat healthy. And I remember once I started becoming famous, like, 2018, 2019, I was, and I was, like, a big girl, and I was like, "It's gonna be on me to show the world that big girls can also be healthy. Big girls can also have stamina. Big girls can also be loved. Big girls can also be sexy," et cetera, et cetera. All the things that I, you know, stood for. And I told people that I was going on an intentional weight release journey because I wanted to be transparent in that way. Because I do feel like I have a relationship with the public where it's like I am their friend and it is relatable. You know what I mean? It is relatable to struggle with your body. So I put it out there. And I think over the last few Over the last, like, year and a half as I've been doing it, my body has been changing very slowly, but I don't think people were paying attention. I would show different things, like, oh, I showed my workouts, or I'd show, like, what I eat in a day, or I would say... I started off the year by being like, "Hey, new year, new me. Trends don't have to be toxic. Please be careful when you're posting about your January fitness goals, 'cause it can be very fatphobic." Like, I'm, I was still very, like, anti fatphobia on this entire journey. But I think that, you know, we gotta remember, everybody not seeing your shit all the time. Everybody not seeing every video you post. Everybody's not privy to what you're going through. They're not with you every day. So when I pop out on a red carpet or when a video suddenly goes viral and my body's different, it appears like it was overnight. It appears sudden, and I think that was shocking to a lot of people because now the headline is Lizzo skinny, which is a far cry from the truth because I'm not. [laughs] I'm not, and even in my original video, I was like, "When I reach my weight release goal, I'm not going to be considered thin by any means, by any metric, by any BMI. I will still get trolled and talked about, and the fat jokes will still be there, but I will be happy," and I said that because I meant it, and here I am, and I was like, "How did y'all... How are y'all co- wh- how, where's the mi- the, the disconnect?" But I think the disconnect is communication and it's-
4. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. Yeah
5. LILizzo
  But-
6. JSJay Shetty
  That's such a good point
7. LILizzo
  ... I've been so transparent, so if anyone wanted to look at my paper trail, it's there. But I also know that they're not going to, and my responsibility as someone who has this relationship with the public, and they have it with me, is to continue. I'm not gonna stop and get defensive and be like... God, I did for a second. I was like, "I'm not skinny. Why are y'all saying that?" You know? And that kind of, it baffled me because it's just like, if y'all knew, knew how much I weighed, if y'all knew what my body really looked like, and I was like, oh, just show them what your body looks like. [laughs] Just be real about it. Just be real about the body dysmorphia that you're experiencing th- you know, now that you have released some weight that's kind of new to you, like, you know, that is also like it's strangely inverse. Like, show them. Just show them your journey more. Just continue to do it instead of being angry and defensive about it. Be real about it because that's what your friend loves about you.
8. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
9. LILizzo
  And that's what you love about your friend-
10. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
11. LILizzo
  ... that you can be real.
12. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
13. LILizzo
  You know, I'm still in it because this is all very new. Like, I think it's now just starting to be, like, a point of conversation and, and discourse, and I think my responsibility with that is to make sure that it's still, it's still me.
14. JSJay Shetty
  No, that's beautiful. That's beautiful the way you explained that. I love... First of all, I, I really appreciate the empathy that you have in the fact that everyone's not seeing everything.
15. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
16. JSJay Shetty
  So it feels like overnight. It feels like a shock, and the fact that you even have the foresight to even think through that shows just how aware you are. But at the same time, I really appreciate how you're using the word weight release and not loss.
17. LILizzo
  Yeah.
18. JSJay Shetty
  And talk to us about that, 'cause I think that's really important. It's such a interesting reframe and such an important reframe.
19. LILizzo
  Because the weight that is no longer on me is not just fat or physical. I released so much to get to this point, and I think people can see that, and I don't wanna describe anything as loss. You know? I don't wanna... I'm not, I'm not experiencing any loss. I've actually gained so much. I've gained, like, a sense of self. I gained, like, a lifestyle that I actually really love, and I'm like, "I can maintain this," you know? I've gained new perspectives on, like, nutrition and, and, and, uh, the science behind cardio or weightlifting. Like, it, it's exciting to me. That's that Virgo Moon.
20. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
21. LILizzo
  I'm like, "Ooh, this is interesting. I love science." But yeah,
1:11:03 – 1:14:12
Letting Go of What’s Holding You Back
1. LILizzo
  I just think that, like, people aren't gonna understand this right now, but it's the most body positive way to experience what I'm going through. I don't wanna use any negative terms.
2. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
3. LILizzo
  Weight loss is like, "Girl, I lost weight," and it's so funny because my, my man, he, he's so funny. Like, he was the one who kinda, like, brought it to my attention at first. I was like, 'cause at first I was like, um, I was like, "Oh my gosh, I lost five pounds." He was like, "Where did it go?" [laughs]
4. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
5. LILizzo
  I was like, "What?" And I was mad at him. I was like, "Why would he say that?" But he's like, "Where did it go?"
6. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
7. LILizzo
  You know? I was like, "Oh, interesting," you know? It's like, I don't think I wanna lose anything. I think I wanna win. I think I wanna gain.
8. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
9. LILizzo
  And I think that, like, I wanna be very intentional with the words that come out of my mouth because there's young people who are watching me, and they're experiencing, you know, what I'm putting into the world, and they're applying it to their own experience and their own life just like I did when I was a kid.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
11. LILizzo
  You know? I saw how the media treated people who gained and lost weight and how that affected my brain chemistry-
12. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
13. LILizzo
  ... and how it made me... I'm s- I'm still not perfect. Like, you know, I'll still mess up when I'm talking about things, or I'll still, I have some toxic, you know, uh, diet culture things that come in my brain. I just swat it away like a fly. I'm like, "No, no, no. We're not doing that. We're not doing that." You know what I mean? Like-
14. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
15. LILizzo
  ... this is your body. You only get one of these. Enjoy her, and let her enjoy you.
16. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
17. LILizzo
  So I just wanna be very careful with my words and intentional.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
19. LILizzo
  And it's not for me, 'cause if, if, if this was all for me, you know, I take this be- being a public figure very by heart. But if we was sitting alone and we was drinking tequila, I'd be like, "Well, ugh," but it's like, no. Like, be careful with your words because it could affect somebody in ways-
20. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
21. LILizzo
  ... you don't even know. Even me releasing the weight has affected people, and I take that seriously. I take that responsibility, and so because of that, I wanna transmute it into something that makes those people feel comfortable-
22. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
23. LILizzo
  ... you know? And feel like, okay, less, less afraid of it.
24. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
25. LILizzo
  You know what I mean?
26. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
27. LILizzo
  And, and understand it more.
28. JSJay Shetty
  Lizzo, it has been an absolute joy talking to you today.
29. LILizzo
  Oh my God, it's over!
30. JSJay Shetty
  You are, like, you're easy to talk to. You're so much fun. I can tell that you've sat with everything you're saying for so long.
1:14:12 – 1:15:45
Become the Best Version of Yourself
1. LILizzo
  up. But I did it anyways, and I was like, "I'm going to beat myself up until [laughs] I end up becoming the best version of myself," and it was really [censored] hard. And I only share it because I know that someone else might be going through it. Like, go through it. Don't try to, like, stop the journey. You know, you do have to sit and reflect. You do have a res- you are, you are the only person in control of you. You know what I mean? And you have to take responsibility for that, and I think that, like, it feels good 'cause then no one else can control your story. No one else can control your joy. I am the author of my story.
2. JSJay Shetty
  I love it.
3. LILizzo
  [laughs]
4. JSJay Shetty
  We end every episode with a Final Five. These questions have to be answered in one word-
5. LILizzo
  Ooh
6. JSJay Shetty
  ... to one sentence maximum each.
7. LILizzo
  Ooh.
8. JSJay Shetty
  So Lizzo, these are your Final Five.
9. LILizzo
  I'm very bad at this, by the way.
10. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
11. LILizzo
  Okay.
12. JSJay Shetty
  The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
13. LILizzo
  [exhales] Know who you are and whose you are.
14. JSJay Shetty
  Ooh, I love that. I've never heard that before. That's beautiful.
15. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
16. JSJay Shetty
  All right. Uh, question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?
17. LILizzo
  [censored] it, bitch. Crash out. [laughs]
18. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] Who said that to you?
19. LILizzo
  Uh, me. [laughs]
20. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] You said it to yourself?
21. LILizzo
  Ah.
22. JSJay Shetty
  Oh, my God.
23. LILizzo
  Yeah.
24. JSJay Shetty
  That's funny.
25. LILizzo
  [laughs]
26. JSJay Shetty
  That's funny. Uh, question number three, this new music, this new album, what is this chapter of your life called?
27. LILizzo
  Freedom.
1:15:45 – 1:20:03
Lizzo on Final Five
1. JSJay Shetty
  Hmm.
2. LILizzo
  I feel very free.
3. JSJay Shetty
  Hmm.
4. LILizzo
  Mm-hmm.
5. JSJay Shetty
  And that's what people feel when they listen to Love in Real Life?
6. LILizzo
  [laughs] I sure hope so, 'cause that's what I put in it. [laughs]
7. JSJay Shetty
  That's, that's beautiful. Uh, question number four, what's the first thing you do every morning and the last thing you do every night?
8. LILizzo
  Wow. The first thing I do every morning when I open my eyes is I have a wave of gratitude. It's happened every morning since January 2020. I've woke up, and I had a wave of gratitude that almost brings me to tears. I've never cried for, like, all of my life, and then in 2020, I just start crying all the time. And then the last thing I do, I think... This is gonna sound like I'm lying. I'm so corny. But I, and it's only because I have anxiety. I think about every person that I l- I l- I think about my, my family. I think about, um, the family members who aren't here. I think about my dog Puka, my dad, and I send... It's so corny. I know this doesn't sound real. It sounds like I'm only saying this 'cause I talk to you.
9. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
10. LILizzo
  But I literally, I send like, there's like these weird color points that come out of me in my mind, and I, and they always go to a different person every time. It's like a different color to a different person.
11. JSJay Shetty
  Hmm.
12. LILizzo
  And I think about them. I, I sent green to my brother, and I sent, like, orange to my sister, and I sent red to my man, and I sent v- uh, violet and white to my father.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Wow.
14. LILizzo
  And I sent blue to my mother. And it was just, it was so strange. But I, I think about them, and I say, "Oh my gosh," I just pray over them real quick. I'm like, I pray- I, I actually don't even pray that they're okay. I thank God they're okay.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Hmm.
16. LILizzo
  I know you said one word, but I, I go, "Thank you."
17. JSJay Shetty
  This is a beautiful answer.
18. LILizzo
  I'm like, "Thank you for making sure that my family and all my loved ones are safe and healthy," I swear. 'Cause I have to-
19. JSJay Shetty
  I love that
20. LILizzo
  ... it's the only way I can go to sleep. [laughs]
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. That's beautiful. I believe you. I believe-
22. LILizzo
  [laughs]
23. JSJay Shetty
  That was very in de- in depth.
24. LILizzo
  Too specific to make it up? [laughs]
25. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, yeah, that was way too specific to make it up as well. [laughs] That was amazing. Uh, fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. The question is, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
26. LILizzo
  Whoa, whoa, whoa.
27. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
28. LILizzo
  Whoa. Actually, I just heard about this.
29. JSJay Shetty
  Oh.
30. LILizzo
  I forget the name of the law, but it's if you, like, think about the world and you're not in it yet, and you don't know how you're gonna be born. You don't know, you know, what color you're gonna be born, what country you're gonna be born in. You don't- it's a lottery. How would you design that world not knowing how you would be born in it so that everybody can live happily?