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Matthew Hussey ON: How to Get Over Your Ex & Find True Love in Your Relationships

Mathew Hussey sits down with Jay Shetty to talk about dealing with relationships.

Matthew HusseyguestJay Shettyhost

Aug 9, 20211h 28mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

85 min read · 17,297 words

0:00 – 3:09
Intro
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  If you're listening to this and you're in an unhappy situation, I get it. I get how hard it is. One of the things that can help is to say, "This demon would come out with another person too."
2. JSJay Shetty
  [upbeat music] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, you know that I love sitting down with experts, people that have dedicated their life, their time, and their years to understanding more about human behavior, human dynamics, and understanding how our mind works. And today, I'm sitting down with someone that I've wanted to meet for a long, long time. I've watched his YouTube videos for years. I've been a fan of his content for many, many years on Instagram and other platforms. We've been trying to get together, and we finally made it happen. I'm talking about none other than New York Times bestselling author, international speaker, and dating expert Matthew Hussey. Matthew, thank you for being here, man.
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  What's up, man? Thanks for having me.
4. JSJay Shetty
  I, I-
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  I share the sentiment. I've wanted to do this for years, and somehow they, the planets never aligned until now.
6. JSJay Shetty
  I know. I remember messaging with you on Instagram. I think I was actually in London at the time, a few years back, and there was a video that we were gonna do together. It was one of these dating videos that you were doing, and you're like, "Oh, do you wanna..." And I was in London, but I don't know how we kept missing each other.
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah, we even had a brief phone call where we, like, connected and got on really well, and-
8. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... I know we're both mutual friends of Lewis Howes, and, and it just, yeah, it's, it's fun, though, to finally be in the same room and do this. It's fun.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, and I feel like it's a momentous occasion because England's playing in the final on Sunday.
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  [laughs]
12. JSJay Shetty
  And we're like, we've been brought together as two-
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  I know
14. JSJay Shetty
  ... Brits. Uh, and I- have you decided where you're watching the final, or you don't know yet?
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  I have to be, in true introverted fashion-
16. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... I have to be at home. Like, h- I d- I like being with my family, 'cause I do like the energy of people who really care.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  What drives me mad is when you've got people who have no idea what they're talking about yelling at a screen-
20. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... during a match.
22. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  And I genuinely love hearing all of the commentary.
24. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  So, like, I'm one of those people, I'm, I'm a fight fan, like boxing and so on. When there's a big boxing match, I'm like, "All right, everyone can come over, but just, I wanna hear the commentary."
26. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  So [laughs] like, I don't, I hate that bar environment of everyone yelling at the screen.
28. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  So yeah.
30. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. Yeah, no, I've, I've actually, I lead a spiritual book club on Sunday, and half of it is bang in the first half of the game, so I'm only gonna get to watch the second half.
3:09 – 6:22
What’s your favorite story of love?
1. JSJay Shetty
  I wanted to ask you, like, what's your favorite love story ever? Uh, or is, is there one that you have? Whether it's a real life one, a client, a, a personal experience, a book. Is, you know, what, what's your favorite story of love?
2. MHMatthew Hussey
  That is a really tricky question. There's a m- there's a movie I saw recently. Uh, it's a Japanese movie called Weathering With You.
3. JSJay Shetty
  I've not seen that.
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  It's an animated movie. This guy, he, he, he created what was at one time the m- biggest, uh, grossing anime of all time. But this movie, Weathering With You, is about a young guy and a girl who are, you know, i- in this kind of, uh, this young love. Uh, th- there's this kind of mythical story where she, the, it's constantly raining in Tokyo, and she has the power to make the rain go away. They call her a sunshine girl. But, and everyone, she's so prized because she's the sunshine girl, and so she's constantly called upon by people who are running events or fireworks displays or whatever to come along and make it stop raining, only, and I, spoiler alert for anyone who's not seen-
5. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... Weathering With You, by the way. Uh, come back in three minutes.
7. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  Um, but there's, uh, every time she does it, she, she start, a piece of herself starts to disappear.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  And it gets to the point where she completely floats up into the sky and no longer has a presence here on Earth-
11. JSJay Shetty
  Wow
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... because she's given so much as the sunshine girl.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Wow.
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  And there's a moment where he goes to save her from up in the clouds because he realizes she can't, you know, even if she comes back down to Earth and never does another thing as a sunshine girl, and all it does is rain all day, he still chooses her.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Wow.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  And the, for me at least, I'm not saying the director meant this, but it's so beautiful because it felt to me like a story of a, of a person who is accepting that even if being with you means that it's, that it's raining-
17. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... I still choose you. I don't just choose you when the sun is shining.
19. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  And th- there's something stunningly beautiful to me about that, because that's a, it's a much more grown-up kind of love than the one that we tend to look for in our 20s-
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... or as teenagers, and some of us for the rest of our lives-
23. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
24. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... where, you know, we love someone as long as the sun is shining, but when, when the chips are down and when things are tough, they start reassessing everything.
25. JSJay Shetty
  That was a beautiful answer. [laughs] I loved that. That was wonderful. I mean, like-
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  [laughs]
27. JSJay Shetty
  ... I, I love movies too, so when you said a movie, a- and I've not seen that movie, so that sounds amazing. I loved that. What a great love story. And, uh, yeah, now, now I, I don't know, should I still watch the movie? Yeah.
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  I really enjoy it.
29. JSJay Shetty
  It's still good.
30. MHMatthew Hussey
  And there's another movie he did prior to that called Your Name.
6:22 – 12:44
The importance of reevaluating what is actually important in a partner
1. JSJay Shetty
  How do you think your view of love has changed while helping people create, find, keep love? I mean, you know, you've been on this amazing journey. You've been doing this for what, a decade now?
2. MHMatthew Hussey
  15 years.
3. JSJay Shetty
  15 years, right?
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah.
5. JSJay Shetty
  Okay, so you've been doing this for 15 years. How has your view of love changed over the last 15 years of actually working with people and-
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  Mm
7. JSJay Shetty
  ... speaking on stages, being interviewed in all these places?
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  I suppose getting older myself, and I realize I'm still relatively speaking a young man, but getting older myself, it, it's become much more apparent to me the importance of reevaluating what is actually important in a partner. And we tend to, our younger selves, we, we do have this list of things that we think we want that seem important. Might be charisma. It might be the fact that, you know, someone, uh, is super sexy 'cause they can speak three languages, or that, you know, they've achieved a certain status in their life, or an award, or whatever. They're, they can play the guitar. And we, we rate these things as these things, and we, you know, when we think of losing someone, we look at all of those things and go, "I couldn't lose them. You know, they're, they're funny, and they're charismatic, and, and they're super fun to be around, and they're sexy, and they can play the guitar, and they can, you know, speak three languages." And, and it still is a kind of Instagram profile version of a person.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  And someone recently said to me, like, "I'm in a relationship with a guy, and, you know, he plays the guitar, and I find that really sexy, and he's really good looking, and he's..." And I'm like, "It, he doesn't need... In order to be in a relationship with you, he doesn't need to be great at music."
11. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  "He needs to be great at a relationship."
13. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  And if you wanna hear someone play guitar really well, go to a John Mayer concert.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, yeah.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  Like-
17. JSJay Shetty
  Ed Sheeran or whatever. Yeah
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... yeah. Like, you don't need that every day in your relationship [laughs]
19. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] Yeah.
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  Right? What's important in a relationship is someone who is really competent in a relationship and has those skills, and those skills are hard won.
21. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  It's one of the reasons that, uh, relationships with big age gaps don't work. It's not because there is necessarily a chasm in the way these two people feel. It's that there is a huge chasm when it comes to their relationship competence-
23. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
24. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... and their experience, and that really does matter. And if you're with someone who has an in- a, a m- far, a lower level of relationship experience, then they either have to learn through you, which is gonna be a painful process.
25. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  They're gonna make a lot of mistakes. They're gonna hurt you a lot in the process. The, you're gonna feel like you're gonna have to be careful of avoiding the role of teacher-
27. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... constantly in the relationship and try and be equals in a situation that's inherently kind of unequal. Um, and, and you're gonna have to hope that they do learn those skills. You're making quite a big bet-
29. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
30. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... on the idea that one day they will have that skill set. Some people take most of their lives to get it, and some people never learn it because they're not the kind of people that want to grow-
12:44 – 21:21
It’s uncomfortable but maybe it’s teaching you something
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah.
2. JSJay Shetty
  How do you think people build relationship competence? Because it almost feels like, and you're right, and, you know, I know we both agree on this, that you just expect to know how to be in a relationship.
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah.
4. JSJay Shetty
  And you kind of just, you're almost expected to know that, oh yeah, you start dating, and then you know what to do next, and none of us know what to do next or now. Tell us about how you go about building relationship competence, and what are the skills that you kinda break it down into for people to think about that?
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  Well, firstly, I have had very much the same experience as you.
6. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  I always thought I was such a great guy-
8. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. [laughs]
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... in relationships. I really did. Like [laughs] -
10. JSJay Shetty
  Same
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... I always thought I was so, you know... The line I always used to say about myself is, you know, I, yeah, maybe I wasn't ready, or maybe I wasn't in a place where I wanted the same thing, but I was a great partner-
12. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... while I was in it. It wasn't true.
14. JSJay Shetty
  No. [laughs]
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  I was, I was, uh, what's the word? I was a gentleman. I was respectful. I, in many wa- I've always been kind. That's always been a through line of my life. But you can be kind and dumb.
16. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. [laughs]
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  And you can hurt a lot of people when you're kind and dumb.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  You know?
20. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  And so I, I look back on myself and it t- sometimes it takes someone who's better than you at a certain part of a relationship.
22. JSJay Shetty
  Yes.
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  Maybe not the whole thing, but they come along and, and you notice that they f- you know, going back to that example, argue differently-
24. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... than you do. You went into fight mode, and they, they went into compassion mode and said, "Look, babe, I know you want, I know you feel like this, but here's, like, the way you're reacting right now, here's how it's making me feel."
26. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  And you go, "Oh, that was different. What was that?"
28. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] Yeah.
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  It's like you learned a new move.
30. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:21 – 23:56
When all the special moves don’t work and your genuine self comes out
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  Totally relate to all of that, and I was that guy too. And th- those guys will often look at guys who are kinda the textbook, the textbook jerk-
2. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... and be like, "Well, he's awful."
4. JSJay Shetty
  Yes. Yeah.
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  Like, you know, he slept with her and he completely ghosted her and he never called her again or he disrespect ... Whatever. He's y- it's easy to point to that guy-
6. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... and being like, "What a piece of crap that guy is." But [laughs] we're more dangerous.
8. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] Yeah. I would then break up with them because I didn't feel loved, and then I'd feel like I was the victim and that I'd been the one not treated well. And then my wife broke me because I tried to ... I, I, I did the same thing with her. I was always like ... But she wasn't impressed by any of the ways I tried to love her-
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  Right
10. JSJay Shetty
  ... apart from being me, and that was when it all [laughs] kind of, like-
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  Ah
12. JSJay Shetty
  ... unraveled. And I was like, "Oh, I finally found someone who actually didn't want all the stuff I was trying to do to get her to love me."
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  Mm.
14. JSJay Shetty
  And so my wife was the kinda person who broke through that barrier because she just didn't care about the stuff or the memory or the gifting or the extravaga- like, she hated all that stuff. And so all of a sudden my technique wasn't ... Not tech- it wasn't even a technique. It was genuine in my delusion, but it wasn't working anymore.
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  Right.
16. JSJay Shetty
  And that's when I had to really look at it, because I really loved my wife, and I was like, "Oh, I actually have to really look at this." And so she was the one who broke that and taught me that idea.
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  That's beautiful. Yeah. So it took someone who valued something completely different-
18. JSJay Shetty
  Totally
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... than the thing that, the weapon you were used to using.
20. JSJay Shetty
  Totally.
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  Right?
22. JSJay Shetty
  Exact- the move.
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah.
24. JSJay Shetty
  The move that I was used to.
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  She, like, took away all of your special moves.
26. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, all the power was gone.
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  So you can't-
28. JSJay Shetty
  I felt like-
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  You have to fight this fight now with none of these special moves.
30. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] Yeah.
23:56 – 25:47
The problem is people are falling in love too fast
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  th- the, one of the biggest problems is people falling for people really quickly.
2. JSJay Shetty
  Yes.
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  Falling in love too fast, where it's because they went on a f- couple of great dates with a guy, and they can look at the date and go, "He was amazing, and you, you should have seen what he did and how he was on the date," and all of that. And the thing I have to always break down is that may not have been about you.
4. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  It is about something he wanted you to feel-
6. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... by the end of the date.
8. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  And not that, you know, you ... I, I, I'm a ... I kinda loathe this culture we have right now where everyone's a narcissist. [laughs]
10. JSJay Shetty
  Yes, yes, yes, yeah
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  Like, we call ... We're so quick to, like, label.
12. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  "He's a narcissist. She's a narcissist." It ... Like, I'm like, not every- Like, we all have a narcissistic streak.
14. JSJay Shetty
  Absolutely.
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  And we all exhibit narcissistic behaviors at time.
16. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  That doesn't mean we're a diagnosable narcissist.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Completely.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  But a narcissistic streak we all have early in dating, and to differing degrees, is the desire to impress-
20. JSJay Shetty
  Yes
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... rather than connect.
22. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  And so we go on a date with someone, and, you know, at the height of it, if someone's really on the extreme end, they will give the greatest date of someone's life.
24. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  And that person goes away, and they're like, "This guy is amazing," or, "This pers- " And they, they may have put on an amazing date, but you, you know nothing yet.
26. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  And what's cool about your wife say- you know, going, uh, going through that process with you is, you know, I can imagine for her it's almost like, "Well, I wanna see how you are in week four."
28. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  Or, "I wanna see how you are in month three."
30. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
25:47 – 28:06
How can you be nervous when you’re valuing the right things?
1. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
2. MHMatthew Hussey
  And that, that's what I mean by, you know, when you asked me about what I've really learned about love and, and I talked about valuing the wrong things.
3. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  That's one of the big ways that it shows up.
5. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  If you are getting crazy nervous on a date-
7. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... you're already va- y- y- ... That's already a reflection of the fact that you've valued the wrong things. Because you're valuing this person's looks or their status or what you perceive them to be, but you can't ... You're not valuing them in a relationship-
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... or in relation to you, which is defined by how much they give, how they connect with you, how they relate to you, how they see you.
11. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  All of that stuff is i- completely, is ... You're at zero.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  So how can you be nervous if you're valuing the right things? You can only be nervous if you're valuing the wrong things.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  If ... That, to me, is the key to eliminating early, l- nerves in early dating, is that there is ... I, I almost feel a little fatalistic about it, which is funny coming from someone who gives advice in this area for a living, because, you know, I, I do believe that we can influence situations with what we do. But we do have to have a bit of a dose of fatalism, that the thing that didn't pan out wasn't the thing.
17. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  The person who's still great in week eight is showing you the right things, but if they suddenly ghost you in week nine, then it doesn't mean they would've been great in week 16.
19. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  They're like, "Oh, but they were the one, and I just, I don't know wh- I need closure." You have closure.
21. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  That action was closure. What they showed you is they had eight good weeks in them.
23. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. [laughs]
24. MHMatthew Hussey
  [laughs]
25. JSJay Shetty
  That's interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. It's, it's ... And it's the same as you'd say in sport. Like, if you, if you s- I'm just, I was just thinking about sport while you were saying that. It's the idea of, like, a player may have one good season in him or her.
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  Mm-hmm.
27. JSJay Shetty
  And then that player may have had 10 good seasons in him or her, and sometimes we have these players where we're like, "Oh, she's gonna be the next," or, "He's gonna be the next." And then all of a sudden they don't give you that season. And in sports we get closure by just going, "All right, they had potential, but they didn't make it." But you're right. In love, in life, it's a lot hard to have that mentality of, like, they gave me eight good weeks, but they didn't make
28:06 – 32:59
You obsess over what they could have been
1. JSJay Shetty
  it.
2. MHMatthew Hussey
  Well, and you, and you sit there and you obsess over someone who just left you, going ... You obsess over what they could have been.
3. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  Right?
5. JSJay Shetty
  That's what it is.
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  They could have ... Th- You know, this was so promising. They were everything that I was looking for. This could have been. And any time you, you ... Someone breaks up with us, w- you know, the heartbreak is the loss of the life we thought we were gonna have-
7. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... with someone. This is, this is what it could have been. This is what it should have been.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  And my answer to that is it would have been-
11. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... if it should have been and could have been.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  Then it would have been. You're literally, uh, uh ... You're grieving over something that was not ... It, by definition, it wasn't meant to happen 'cause it didn't happen.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Yes.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  Like [laughs]
17. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, yeah.
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  It didn't happen, so this idea that it, it was supposed to or it should have is, is myth. It's a-
19. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... fantasy.
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  It's science fiction.
23. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. But I feel like in relationships we have this fantasy mind that's already written the script-
24. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah
25. JSJay Shetty
  ... and the book and the trilogy before the second date is over. And so it's almost like relationship seems to be, like, the one area of our life where we write decades into the future, and we can't help ourselves because we almost think that that ... And, and it's almost like you're living ... What you're saying is you're living off the fantasy, not even-
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah
27. JSJay Shetty
  ... off the reality that's right in front of you. And so even when you're on a date with them, you're not even there because you're in your fantasy land-
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  And th-
29. JSJay Shetty
  ... of what you think it is.
30. MHMatthew Hussey
  And that's where, in, in so many ways, everything that you are ... You know, w- your expertise in mindfulness and everything you've learned there is so important in dating. Because in dating you have to be on the date you're on.
32:59 – 35:49
Don’t be upset when you lose a poet, the poetry is the relationship
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  so thinking that you have all the answers because you've been on even 10 or 15 dates with this person and had a wonderful time is a, is a fallacy, a fantasy. There's a great, um... The, the, the relationship itself is about every stage of it and the effort that's put in. And there's a, there's a story from Bukowski where he, he slept with a prostitute. Every romantic story begins with-
2. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  [laughs] Begins this way. He slept with a prostitute, and she, um, he woke up to her having stolen his poetry, and he was so upset, so mad.
4. JSJay Shetty
  That's terrible, yeah.
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  And, um, he wrote about it, and he wrote a piece that was all about how you could take anything, take my money, take the other stuff in the, in the apartment, take it all, but please, not my, anything but my poetry. And the, the whole piece finishes with the line, "And then God said, crossing his legs, 'I see where I've created a great many poets, but not so very much poetry.'"
6. JSJay Shetty
  Wow.
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  And the, the idea is that, you know, the person who has potential in a relationship is the poet.
8. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  The poet. Everyone's a poet.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  Not many people writing poetry.
12. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  Writing-
14. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... is the more difficult part. There are a lot of people who are great on a date, very romantic, very charming. They're a poet on a date.
16. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  The poetry is the relationship.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  And, and you shouldn't, you know, Bukowski was upset because his poetry was taken.
20. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  The thing he'd worked on. And that's how it should be in a relationship is don't, don't get upset because you lost a poet. Poets are, are a dime a dozen. Poetry is rare.
22. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  People who are willing to write the poetry of a relationship, people who are willing to stick it with you for a year, two years, five years, 10 years, that's really rare.
24. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  And, and we need to start valuing the poetry far more than we value the poet.
26. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, I love that. What a, what a beautiful analogy. Let's, let's talk a bit about that poetry because I feel like what's amazing is we convince ourself more of the fiction when you are lusting after that person's looks, fame, prestige, whatever, whatever they have that you're attracted to. It's almost like then even if they do a million bad things, like you said about the guy playing the guitar or whatever it is, it's like, you're like, "Oh, but he's so, or she's so," whatever. But tell us a bit about what to look out for. So when people are out there, and I know what I love about what you do is that, and I love this conversation by the way so far because it's, it's, it's philosophical, and it's real, but you're great at getting practical too.
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  Mm.
28. JSJay Shetty
  And I see that in all the work you put out. What's some of the practical things that people can look
35:49 – 39:03
A moment where you genuinely are brave enough to let someone in and be seen
1. JSJay Shetty
  out for? I know so many friends who are in early relationships or just started to date someone or finally met someone.
2. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah.
3. JSJay Shetty
  What can they look for in those moments, or is it looking for anything? It may- maybe that's even the wrong place to start.
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  I think it's, so we have a duty early on to bring our best to the table in as much as we can. We're all gonna make mistakes. We're all gonna have anxious moments or jealous moments or moments where we let our insecurity get the better of us, moments where we let our anger get the better of us. Everyone's gonna have these moments, but we wanna try and put our best foot forward. But I always think that we learn a lot in the moments where you have your first fight.
5. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  Or you reveal something about yourself And you see how they react to it. You know, do they react with compassion? Or is there immediate judgment? And, and, and I don't mean a moment where you kind of try and perform.
7. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  I mean a moment where you genuinely are brave enough to let someone in and be seen.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Yes.
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  Does this person, do they see you? Do they acknowledge you? And do they show compassion and curiosity about why you are that way and-
11. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... what's happened in your life to get you there? Do they really, are they looking to figure you out? And who you are is a wonderful, wonderful sign, 'cause a lot of people are just in a relationship and they're sleepwalking.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. Yeah.
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  They're just, they're, they're enjoying it. They're enjoying the fruits of the relationship, but you don't get the impression someone's really trying to get to know you.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  You don't feel seen by that person.
17. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  The person who's actually asking questions of you, the person who's looking to understand the good and the bad in you-
19. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... and who elevates the good and soothes the bad-
21. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... that's something very beautiful-
23. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
24. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... to look out for. The person who can come back and say sorry, as of course, and I apply the same standard to, to both sides.
25. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, of course.
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  But the person who can, who can come back and say sorry, w- you know. Again, we, we all ... When I'm, when w- with one of my staff in my company, when I say, you know, when I give them a difficult piece of feedback, I don't expect them to smile in that moment.
27. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  I don't expect them to, like, take, you know, in the ... I'd, I ha- would hope that they don't react in a really negative or toxic way, but-
29. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
30. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... I don't expect them to have an easy time with that. But if that person can go away over the next few hours or days, and then come back and say, "You know, I really thought about what you said, and I'm gonna work on that," that's something to look for.
39:03 – 44:31
When you come out of an argument bleeding every time
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  I'm, I'm always looking at the ways people argue, and whether they, whether they're trying to do damage in an argument-
2. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... or whether they're trying to rebuild in an argument.
4. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  And if you're with someone that every time you come out of an argument, you feel like they lacerated you, and there's, the, you're, you, you come out of an argument bleeding every time. You know, and you're like, "They, why did they have to say that incredibly nasty thing?" And it's one thing if they come back 10, an hour later and say, or even a day later and say, "I truly regret having said that to you, and I will do better."
6. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  But if they won't even acknowledge that that was a really toxic way to have an argument, and that was a really nasty thing to say, then that's a problem. 'Cause this is a relationship that's not gonna soothe you.
8. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  It's gonna create more and more wounds. So that I would say is an important thing. And, and two people genuinely, genuinely at the core of it operating as a team.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  What do you, what do you need? And can I tell you, you know, you're working really hard right now. Can I understand what your goal is in doing this, and seek to understand that, and where that's coming from for you, and why that's important? But can I also voice to you that I'm not feeling very loved right now-
12. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... and that I'm s- I, you know, maybe it is just my insecurity, or maybe the, you know, but I, or maybe I don't have some, enough, as m- many things going on in my life right now as you do in yours, but I know one of the effects is it's creating some anxiety for me, and it's making me feel like you don't love me as much as I love you. You know? It, you want an environment where you can have that real conversation, and it, it then to me, a relationship is no longer about right and wrong. It's about the conversation.
14. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  Can the conversation be had?
16. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  That to me is one of the greatest signs of a relationship you should hang onto.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  Is can the relationship be had?
20. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  And can it be had in a beautiful and, and productive and loving way?
22. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  Because that's all, you know, uh, um, David Brooks said, "Marriage is a 50-year conversation."
24. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  Right? I- is that conversation a, does it feel good?
26. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  Doesn't always feel comfortable, but does it feel like this is a conversation that is making me better?
28. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  Or is it a conversation that's always making me worse?
30. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. I love that. And, and, and I think it's, it's such a vicious cycle though sometimes, because I find that you get into an argument, like you said, which I think the first argument is such a great, uh, like it's such a great marker to put down as-
44:31 – 47:32
People aren’t comfortable in being an area they can be criticized
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  again, y- you're so right, Jay, and it's beau- truly beautiful that you have that in your relationship, and it's, and it's also brave. 'Cause talking, those conversations are not easy. They, and people s- can say things in those relationship, in those conversations that can scare us. They could say, "Well, I'm not happy 'cause I want it to go in this direction."
2. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, I've heard that too. Yeah.
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  It's like, oof. Like, you know, or, "I didn't realize you were unhappy in that way," or, "I didn't realize you felt like that." Though that takes a lot of bravery to have conversations like that, and I commend you for that. And I, and I think that's one of the things a lot of people aren't willing to do, is step bravely into an area where they could be criticized.
4. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  Um, but I, I think it is one of the most important aspects of a relationship, is being able to do exactly that. So no, I think it's, I think it's a, a stunning thing.
6. JSJay Shetty
  Well, it's uncomfortable, like you're saying. It's not, and, and I'm not sharing it as like we've perfected it and we've got it right. I'm just saying that that's what we've had to do in order to, like, you know, we're only at year five, year eight in our relationship, year five in marriage. But it's like, that's what we've just, I've had to find these, what you're saying, like the 50-year conversation-
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah
8. JSJay Shetty
  ... and, and the idea you're saying of having these, like I'm just, I've noticed that without these things, you could go years without changing anything.
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  But speaking of what you said with the, the idea of the monks, that to me goes back to the m- you know, what I was saying about timing being important.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  I do believe when you go into a relationship with genuine purpose-
12. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... and even when you go into dating with genuine purpose, you, you know, you go on a dating app, 'cause a lot of people out there listening to this won't be in a relationship. They'll be right now in the crapshoot of dating apps-
14. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... trying to figure out how to navigate. When we're intentional, we bring a different energy to the things we do.
16. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  We bring a different energy to a person. And in a relat- i- in early dating, I think that when you're really intentional and when you really are like, "I'm looking for s- a real connection here," you don't actually judge people as quickly.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  You don't dispose of people as quickly, where you just go, "Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong-
20. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... wrong, wrong." You, you start actually looking for what could be right.
22. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  You start, and I'm not saying ignoring abusive and toxic behavior.
24. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  I'm just saying those superficial things we just, i- i- you know, decide, "No, they don't meet this checklist. They don't meet this one," whatever. We lose that because what we're looking for is, is deeper, and we start genuinely seeking to like, we're on a date and we start going, "Let me really find out-
26. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... who this person is."
28. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  Like, let me really see them, and let me not be judgmental of them so quickly and, and look to understand them. And the, the reward for that is that this person now actually feels seen by you.
30. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. That's great advice.
47:32 – 50:53
The culture you create will have an impact in the people around you
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  front of them. Uh, there's a, a, Mitch Albom wrote a line about, you know, if the culture isn't serving you, then you have to be brave enough to create your own culture.
2. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  And in dating-
4. JSJay Shetty
  Wow
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... for so many people, I, you know, I get all the complaints about dating these days.
6. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  You know, it's superficial.
8. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  It's no one, everyone's flaky. No one goes on real dates. No one's trying. No one's really committing. No one wants a real relationship. It's like, okay, so what you're describing to me is what you perceive to be a culture-
10. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... that's not working for you.
12. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  But if that culture isn't serving you, then create your own culture-
14. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... that surrounds you.
16. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  And v- and your culture can be powerful, not for the world necessarily, 'cause in, for that, there needs to be a combined cultural shift.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  But in your micro life-
20. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... in your micro problems and, and opportunities, the culture you create will have an impact on the people around you.
22. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  And it, the same way, you know, I said if you go into a room at a party and you say, "I hope this party's good," well, now you're a victim to what- however this party is.
24. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  You know? If everyone seems kind of closed off and mean, and m- you know, just cliquey-
26. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... and it's like, "Oh, God," then you go home and you say, "Oh my God, that party was so, you know, it was one of those-
28. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... horrible parties." But if you go in and you say I'm gonna, at the very least, be responsible for a part of this party.
30. JSJay Shetty
  Yes. Yeah.
50:53 – 55:34
Give an amount of energy you are willing to lose
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  we have to do is give ... When we give a little more energy in dating and say, "You know what? This person who I've known for five minutes, maybe I'm not feeling much energy here, but I'm just gonna give some energy."
2. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  "I'm gonna give an amount of energy I'm willing to lose."
4. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  Right? That's an i- a key way of looking at it.
6. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  What you don't do is you keep trying with someone who's not giving you equal energy back.
8. JSJay Shetty
  Yes, yes.
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  That's, that then becomes masochistic.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Right.
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  But giving an amount of energy you're willing to lose, I always think about that in every interaction.
12. JSJay Shetty
  That's so true. Yeah. I like that.
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  Give an amount you don't mind losing.
14. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  It's like going into the casino and playing, like, roulette. It's like, all right, I'm in Vegas. I'll give, like, 100 bucks.
16. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  And then I'm not spending anything else here-
18. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... in these casinos.
20. JSJay Shetty
  Yes, yes.
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  That's it.
22. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  You know, for me, it's normally, like, 10 bucks-
24. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. [laughs]
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... 'cause I just ... I, I'm not a gambler. But-
26. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... you just decide, what am I ha- happy to lose? And it's the same with energy. It's, you know, I'm dating right now. I wanna find someone amazing, someone beautiful. I'm gonna give to everyone I interact with an amount of energy I don't mind losing.
28. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  And some people ... I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring out the people who-
30. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
55:34 – 1:00:00
Experiencing the endless ocean of disappointment
1. JSJay Shetty
  But the idea of you, you feel there's so much choice now that you just al- like you said, you're just swiping away-
2. MHMatthew Hussey
  Mm
3. JSJay Shetty
  ... you're looking at profiles, everything. But at the same time, you feel like you'll never find someone again. Wh- where's, what's happening there? What are you seeing there when you're speaking to people?
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  I think there's a, it's a combination of things. It's people aren't experiencing f- for a lot of people, they're not experiencing what they see as an endless ocean of choice.
5. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  What they're experiencing is an endless ocean of disappointment-
7. JSJay Shetty
  Wow
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... of constantly talking to people with it not going anywhere.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Wow.
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  Being ghosted. Talking to someone and they, that person never actually takes them up on going on a date. So it's like we're living a computer game version of dating, but-
11. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... I'm not actually meeting up in real life. Or, you know, meeting someone, it seems to be going well for a few dates, and all of a sudden they disappear-
13. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... and, you know, they're, or they're not interested anymore. It fizzles out. And so it's, it's a lot of disappointment. But the, but the ironic thing about that is that on the flip side, people experience that choice in a negative way.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  So what they feel is the person I could be going, I'm going on a date with-
17. JSJay Shetty
  Date
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... had endless choice.
19. JSJay Shetty
  Wow. Yeah.
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  And, and that brings out all of my insecurity because I feel like I'm never ... How can I possibly compete with what Bo Burnham says is everything all the time?
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. [laughs]
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  I can't compete with that. I can't compete with you having access to everyone in a 10-mile radius or more if you choose to have more. That's something I c- I, I ... How do I possibly live up to that? And that to me is at the root of so many people's lack of confidence, even their lack of authenticity when they go on a date because they're trying to be ... They stop trying to connect, and they start trying to be something they think the other person-
23. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
24. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... wants them to be, and now it's a departure from themselves. Now, to me, the lesson here is the same as, you know ... I, the, one of the things I really enjoy about working with people in their love lives is that there is, it's so transferable and universal to other domains. So if you look at this, this problem of we're afraid, you know, we can't live up to the choice that somebody else has, that's actually true in business too. It's true in content creation, right? Like, I, I've had it. In the last couple of years, I've had moments where I look at just how many creators there now are and just how much video content is pumped online every day, that I, I feel like I've overeaten and wanna be sick.
25. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  And I'm like, w- the, it can get to a point where even though, because in one sense, being good at something creates confidence.
27. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  Right? If you feel like you're a good partner and you're attractive and you have good qualities and so on, then you feel like a version of competence.
29. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
30. MHMatthew Hussey
  And the same is true in content creation. I've been doing what I do for 15 years. I feel very competent when it comes to speaking into a microphone, going on TV, going on stage, making videos, and yet there's still moments where I've had just this little feeling of like, do I n- like, does the w- does the world need another voice?
1:00:00 – 1:03:35
There is someone that uniquely vibes with your personality
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  And what I tell myself is there is someone that uniquely vibes with my personality and the way I ha- deliver the message. I need ... I, it's not about me worrying, how do I grab that person's audience? Or how can I appeal to everybody? It's just about me saying, you know what, i- i- William Zinsser, there's a wonderful book for life and writing. Uh, uh, someone once said to me, "Every book on writing is a book on life."
2. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  But there's a, William Zinsser wrote one of the seminal books on writing, which I forget. I think it's on, uh, how to ... Great writing or something. If you look up William Zinsser, people will find it. But, um, he says, you know, when you go to... He said, "You may be a aspiring travel writer who, when you think about going to Tokyo to write about Tokyo, you think that thousands of travel writers have been to Tokyo and written about Tokyo. What do I possibly have to add?" And he says, "But the world hasn't heard what your lens on Tokyo is."
4. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  "The world hasn't ha- heard your take on Tokyo." And that might contain some idea or way of looking at things that other people haven't actually done, or that you may say the same thing, but you may say it fresh.
6. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  And, and so I tell myself that when I'm creating content, that it's not about appealing to everyone. It really is about saying, "I- my take on this is interesting for its own sake to the people that-"
8. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... vibe with me. The same is true in dating.
10. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  That-
12. JSJay Shetty
  I see that
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... you, there is a specific audience for you, and it doesn't have to be 99.999% of people.
14. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  If you're looking for a serious relationship, it just has to be one.
16. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  Those are amazing odds.
18. JSJay Shetty
  That's a great analogy. I love that. That ma- that, it, it resonates. You're so right on both levels, and, and you're spot on. It's, it's weird that in dating too, we wanna be attractive to everyone.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah.
20. JSJay Shetty
  We want everyone to feel, just as a content creator, you want everyone to feel-
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  [laughs]
22. JSJay Shetty
  ... a certain way about you. And so I think that's such a great way of looking at it. And yeah, I, I love the idea, the, the writer you mentioned around the voice on Tokyo. Yeah, I always feel that. I'm like, pe- we need more faces and more voices and, because there are just so many people that you can connect to that I can't connect to, and vice versa-
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  Mm
24. JSJay Shetty
  ... with everyone else, and I see that all the time, that d- whatev- and whatever field you're in too, right? Like, I always say, like, there's enough space for the best athletes, the best actors. Like, there's so many actors, there's so many actresses. But there's always a new person that kinda makes it in and wins the upcoming actor award or-
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  That's really true
26. JSJay Shetty
  ... actress award-
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah
28. JSJay Shetty
  ... because you kind of wanna disc- and you also want the idea of discovery. And, and I think people almost make it-
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah
30. JSJay Shetty
  ... like, I think we've always made it about, like, "Oh, who's your top three? Who's your top five?" And the people that actually are watching and list- they don't see it in a hierarchy. They just are like, "Oh, I listen to this group of people."
1:03:35 – 1:09:43
You can’t change a person when they don’t want to
1. JSJay Shetty
  more clear. But tell me about your take on changing people.
2. MHMatthew Hussey
  Mm.
3. JSJay Shetty
  Uh, I, I, I wonder how much you get people saying, "I'm with someone, I met someone. They have potential. I think I can change them."
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  Mm. There's a quote from, I think it's Jacob M. Broad, where he says, uh, "Consider how hard it is to change yourself, and you'll understand how foolish it is to think you can change somebody else."
5. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  And that, people should really let that sink in. [laughs]
7. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  Because at, in the beginning of January, 60, 70, 80% of the world decides they wanna get fit and healthy.
9. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah. [laughs]
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  How, what percentage of those people get fit and healthy?
11. JSJay Shetty
  Yep.
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  Those are people who want to change.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  They didn't make that resolution for nothing.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  They made it because they want that.
17. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  It's not someone saying to them, "You should really lose weight," and them going, "I'm fine." That's someone saying to themselves, "I should really lose weight," and they still can't do it.
19. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  Now, consider being in a relationship with someone who's not even admitting that they need to change, and thinking that they're going to change.
21. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] Yeah.
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  It's har- it would, it would be on your hear- behalf, and I'm not saying it would be wrong to trust someone when they say this, but it's still speculative-
23. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
24. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... if you or I are in a relationship and you say, "Matt, I'm gonna change." That's still speculative for me. [laughs]
25. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] Yeah.
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  You might.
27. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  It might be too hard.
29. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
30. MHMatthew Hussey
  But it might be worth me staying if we have a lot of love between us and you're saying, "I'm gonna change," because I say, "You know what? That's, if, if you're really committed to this, then, then game on. Let's do this."
1:09:43 – 1:13:35
You’ve never been heartbroken, have you?
1. JSJay Shetty
  chord, and I hope that everyone who's listening and watching, you know, that drops and sinks in for them as well. Because what you just said there, I think that's the dilemma that most people are in, do I stay or do I go?
2. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah.
3. JSJay Shetty
  And you've just answered, like, you know, that's how you know. Like, that's, it's clear.
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  You know, I, I sometimes look at videos of, of myself from years ago-
5. JSJay Shetty
  Oh, gosh [laughs]
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... and I cringe 'cause I-
7. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah [laughs]
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... I, I'm like, I, you know, it's not, what I'm saying might be factually right-
9. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, yeah, yeah
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... but the way I'm saying it, I, I was once, um-
11. JSJay Shetty
  It's like looking at old hairstyles. It's the same thing [laughs] . It's like looking at old fashion sense, old hair-
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah
13. JSJay Shetty
  ... old advice and-
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  Oh, I thought that looked good.
15. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah, yeah.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  I-
17. JSJay Shetty
  I thought that, yeah
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... I was in Beverly Hills when I first got to LA. I was about 25.
19. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  And, and I was making a video in front of the Beverly Hills sign.
21. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  I was like, "I'm gonna get the Beverly Hills sign in the background." And, and the, and it was a video about getting over heartbreak.
23. JSJay Shetty
  Great.
24. MHMatthew Hussey
  And I think it was, like, the three tips for getting over heartbreak, right? Which by the way, as soon as you say three tips-
25. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... for getting over heartbreak, you already don't understand. [laughs]
27. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  Because anyone who's deep in heartbreak is not coming to you going, "What are your tips?"
29. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah [laughs] .
30. MHMatthew Hussey
  They're going s- "Save me from this-
1:13:35 – 1:18:40
Staying in unhappy for a long time makes it difficult to entertain the the idea of leaving
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  If someone has stayed in an unhappy situation for a long time, that must mean it is incredibly difficult for them internally to make peace with the idea of leaving.
2. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  And, and what's happening, of course, is in this moment where it's evident to all of their friends and family that they should leave and that they should never look back, their abandonment issue that's been around their whole life is screaming at them.
4. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  Screaming. Using any tactic it can to get them to stay. And when they were in the relationship, the wa- the tactic it used maybe was to go into people pleaser mode, and even though this person's not treating me right, I'm gonna do anything I can to make them happy. Make every compromise, make every sacrifice, bend over backwards, subjugate my own needs to try and serve you, all, all in order so that I can keep you.
6. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  And then at a point where you get so unhappy and you say, "Oh my God, this person's terrible. I've had to lose myself in this relationship to make them happy. I'm gonna leave." Just at the point of leaving, just as your friends are like-
8. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs]
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... "Thank the Lord, they did it."
10. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  "They left," you go home that night, and that abandonment demon realizes a different tactic has to be played. So it says, "Maybe they weren't so bad. Maybe, like, we're asking for too much. Maybe, like, you know, they did have really great qualities, didn't they?"
12. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  "I mean, they were, they were loyal, and they, they're a lovely person a lot of the time, and they're this and they're that." And that, that voice starts using a different tactic with you.
14. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  Because the only thing that voice wants is, "Don't be abandoned."
16. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  And it'll do anything in its power to reach that goal. It will ruin your life to achieve that goal, 'cause it only has one goal, and the goal is don't, is not make you happy. The goal is make sure you're not abandoned.
18. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  And, and so this stuff is so difficult, and it's why people should ... The, in those moments, if anyone is listening to this and, and if you're listening to this and you're in an unhappy situation, I get it. I get how hard it is. And taking the time to really say ... One of the things that can help is to say, "This, this demon would come out with another person too."
20. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  So it's not really about this person. To that extent, at least-
22. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... I can depersonalize this and go, "It's not really about losing this person. It's just about losing a person."
24. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  And, and I'll ha- I can carry this demon with me to the next one and the next one and the next one. So, but I, I, I think people, people should be compassionate to themselves, but, uh, uh, if they're struggling to end something difficult, but extend that compassion to your future self.
26. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  Because extend, truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life. And if you know that the, all the evidence has told you, you ca- it ca- it does not reside here, then compassion towards your future self is leaving, even if for your present self, it's deeply painful.
28. JSJay Shetty
  That's so powerful, man. That's, that's amazing. I'm so glad that you brought it to that, and your reference to just how people could switch it off, that ... I remember when I read that statistic the first time, that we have 60 to 80,000 thoughts per day, but 80% of them are repeated. And that's, that was the one that really hit me, and I was like, "Yeah, that's what's happening."
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  [laughs]
30. JSJay Shetty
  Like, if someone's saying that to themselves, what you just said about abandonment, the idea of if someone keeps repeating to themselves, without even knowing-
1:18:40 – 1:22:25
The 30-Day Confidence Challenge
1. JSJay Shetty
  into the final five? Is there something that's in your heart, in your mind, that's intuitively there for you that you feel like you need to share with everyone today before we dive into the final five?
2. MHMatthew Hussey
  I suppose, um, if I may-
3. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... there's a-
5. JSJay Shetty
  Love for you to
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... there's ... I, I've, I've been working on something recently that I know these subjects can, as you said, seem very abstract. Even when you talk about, when we talk about confidence, it's a very hard thing to latch onto and figure out, "Well, okay, I wanna be more confident. I wanna be confident enough to leave," or, "I'm single, but I wanna be confident enough to approach that person," or to-
7. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  It, it's a very hard thing to grab onto. What does it mean to be more confident? How do I actually do it?
9. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  I put together something that I said, "W- if in 30 days I wanted to ... If I had a gun to my head and it was you have to improve someone's confidence in 30 days, what would you do?" I said, well, maybe I'd create five challenges that were specifically engineered around-
11. JSJay Shetty
  I love that
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... the psychology of confidence. And my theory with this is if you can give yourself a genuine me- not like, you know, completely transform everything about your confidence in 30 days, 'cause we all know that's just BS. No one's, the, the, the world is full of these kind of hyperbolic promises. But if people can ... I, I believe that when you can create like a crack in the doorway and that shows you what's possible, that momentum leads to something bigger and bigger and bigger. I don't think someone starts by saying, "I know I can be a millionaire." I think someone starts by saying, "I made two grand this month. I bet I could make two and a half next month."
13. JSJay Shetty
  Mm.
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  And then making two and a half and go, "I think I see a way to four."
15. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  You know, that to me is how belief is built, is incremental.
17. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  And so I said, if I can get people a 30-day significant incremental shift in their confidence, then whatever goals they have this year, that will give the momen-
19. JSJay Shetty
  Yes
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... the momentum to charge into those goals differently.
21. JSJay Shetty
  Yeah.
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  Um, so I put together a, a place where I've got, a, there's an initial kickoff call that I'm doing with everybody, where I'm gonna take them through those five-
23. JSJay Shetty
  I love that
24. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... challenges. We're gonna do them, go through them together as a blueprint for 30 days, and then the timer of the 30 days is gonna start, and everyone's goal as a community is to do those five challenges over those 30 days. And-
25. JSJay Shetty
  That's awesome
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... literally engineered them based on the psychology of what I've learned about confidence over 15 years. Um, if I may, w- I would say-
27. JSJay Shetty
  I'd love that. Where can people sign up? Yeah.
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah. It, if you go to mhchallenge.com.
29. JSJay Shetty
  Mm-hmm.
30. MHMatthew Hussey
  That's my initials, M-H, and challenge.com. There's a place where people can sign up, and they can join that challenge. But we already ran it once, and it was, the, the results have been really beautiful because everyone's writing in and saying-
1:22:25 – 1:28:00
Win a limited edition, signed sampler box full of Jay & Radhi's favorite teas. Enter today! https://bit.ly/3jladpu
1. JSJay Shetty
  uh, Matthew, I've got the final five for you.
2. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah.
3. JSJay Shetty
  So these have to be answered in one word-
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  Oh, my God
5. JSJay Shetty
  ... or one sentence maximum.
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  Okay.
7. JSJay Shetty
  A sentence, I don't know what the official definition is, but I make it seven to 10 words. It's-
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  So one word or one sentence for each answer.
9. JSJay Shetty
  One word or one sentence-
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  Okay
11. JSJay Shetty
  ... for each of these. Okay. So Matthew Hussey, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the worst relationship advice you've ever heard or received?
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  Find someone who loves you more than you love them.
13. JSJay Shetty
  Oh, yeah. Okay. Great. Good, good answer. All right. Question number two, what's the best relationship advice you've ever heard, received, or given?
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  Make a list of the things that are truly important-
15. JSJay Shetty
  Mm
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... for you to find in a partner, and then be that list.
17. JSJay Shetty
  Love that. Great advice. All right, question number three, uh, one word to one sentence again, define love for you.
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  Generous interpretation of other people's behavior.
19. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] That's a great definition. I was not expecting that.
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  [laughs]
21. JSJay Shetty
  That's awesome. That is a great definition. All right, question number four, uh, what is, how would you describe your current purpose in life?
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  To make people feel less alone in their suffering.
23. JSJay Shetty
  That's beautiful. I love that, man. That's, that's really special. All right, question number five, if you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be?
24. MHMatthew Hussey
  I don't think I can beat the golden rule. I, the, the Confucian, you know, uh, you know, do to other people or treat other people how you would wanna be treated. I, I don't think I can beat-
25. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] You can beat that
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... Confucius on that.
27. JSJay Shetty
  [laughs] I love it. I love it. Uh, Matthew Hussey, everyone. Please, please, please, uh, go follow Matthew on all social media platforms, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook. Uh, go and check out the mhchallenge.com. Don't forget that you're getting, uh, five challenges in confidence, uh, with Matthew for that as well. So make sure you go and check out mhchallenge.com. And please tag me on I- me and Matthew on Instagram, on Twitter, on any platform that you use with your biggest takeaways from this episode. We wanna see them. You know that I love sharing those insights. And leave a review as well with your big takeaway from Matthew's episode. Matthew, thank you so much for doing this.
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  My pleasure.
29. JSJay Shetty
  I hope this is, uh, the first of many that we get to do this for.
30. MHMatthew Hussey
  I do too.